All right folks , welcome back to the Property Couch podcast , to our very first summer series for this season , and boy is it a ripper episode . Today we are talking to Ethan , who built a successful property portfolio outside of the capital cities , and a conversation he had with his dad at the age of 15 sparked his own thoughts of financial independence .
What else are we going to cover , ben ?
Well , mate , it's not just his dad who's inspiring , and his mom taught him all the benefits of hard work and how to work hard to achieve what you want to achieve , bryce .
Five properties folks worth $2.3 million . It is a ripper episode . Let's rip into it now .
Welcome to the Property Couch where , each week , you get to listen to two of Australia's leading property and money experts Bryce Holdaway , co-host of Location Location , location Australia on FoxTel's Lifestyle channel and co-host of Escape from the City on the ABC .
And Ben Kingsley , chair of Property Investors Council of Australia and a back-to-back winner of the Property Investment Advisor of the Year award . And both the partners of the multi-award winning Empower Wealth . Co-creators of Moor , the free lifestyle design app , as well as best selling . Authors of the Armchair Guide to Property Investing and Make Money Simple Again .
Stay tuned as they bring you the Insiders Guide to Property Finance and Money Management .
Hi folks , welcome back to another episode of the Property Couch podcast . This is the summer series . Ben , we have another Property Couch listener . Today we are talking with Ethan Nick . Welcome to the Property Couch , ethan .
Thanks , Lloyd-Jones .
Hey , I was practicing you soon I'm . How do I go out of 10 ?
Yeah , I can get seven .
Seven .
Yeah .
Do you want to fine tune it for us ? How do you pronounce it ?
It's pronounced Nick , nick . Yeah , that's it . No , that's all right , not a niche a niche .
And for those playing on at home , you told us that's an Austrian heritage , right ? Yeah , that's country Austria . Yeah , that's correct .
Yeah , very good .
Hey , thanks for joining us on the Property Couch .
One of the things that we love about this time of the year is just to have these types of conversations , and when you wrote in and gave us some backstory , I must admit , Ben and I looked at each other and thought we're really looking forward to leaning in and having this conversation with you , because there's so many layers to it and there's a bunch of stuff
that money means to you which we're going to lean into shortly as well . But before we get there , we're going to start where we always start . Mate , we just want to talk about way back in the beginning . Let us know what money conversations were like for you growing up . Did you have conversations over the dinner table with your folks ?
Yeah . So conversations were definitely hard and there is a comment my father had made to me and my younger brother at the time which I'll lean in . I'll make a comment later on . That has literally pivoted for me and that was that . I can literally in my mind remember . That's the pivotal change in my mindset of why I need to sort out my own life .
But I'm yet growing up . My mum she was a hard worker , extremely hard . She I got sorry I should all go back to say I got three brothers . The middle one actually has Down syndrome . So growing up with someone who's had major health issues , all that my parents always try to provide the best for me and my younger brother .
They never wanted us to have a , I guess , a burden on our upbringing . So my mum yeah , they in the early days they made a commitment that there would be no burden on my younger brother , myself having a brother Down syndrome in the family . We were never actually relied on for my brother . They did all the heavy lifting and my mum especially .
I got a lot of respect for my mum . She , monday to Friday , would go from Wadonga work in Melbourne and dad was a stay at home dad .
So our upbringing was literally us three boys raised by my father on the financial backings of my mum , living away Monday to Friday in Melbourne , commuting three and a half hours back up for the weekends , to provide a literally a lifestyle that they agreed , that us three boys , they want to provide for us .
It's a massive undertaking , isn't it ? You know , shout out what's your , what's your brother's names .
We got Abe's , the one with Down syndrome , the middle child and great is the youngest .
Okay , abe's in great Shout out to you guys hey , that is a massive commitment .
And then , ultimately , what we're talking about here is setting up your family in Wadonga Sorry , wadonga , I got to write that time and we've got a situation here where effectively , everything is focused on looking after your brother in terms of his situation , and ultimately telling you that if your life is going to be successful , you're going to have to make it
successful . So whatever is left over , it's up to you . Is that a fair assessment ?
Yeah , so the assessment would be yes , they comment my dad . So I'm back to the money on the dinner table . The comment month dad literally made to me I can always been 15 , 16 , so my brother would be nine or 10 . He literally turned around to both of us and said there'll be nothing in the inheritance for you boys , it's all going to aid my brother .
And that was literally that pivotal moment shift in my head where I just went yeah , no worries , I got to look after myself , fully understood it . I did actually bring it up to date about this . And he goes . I actually remember that conversation . And he goes . You remember what your younger brother said ? And I said no , and he goes .
I literally said well , what about me ? I don't know I'm 10 year old to expect to have that pivotal shift in their head . But yeah , so literally to this day I still know that was the pivotal moment in my life where I've literally gone and focused on if I want anything in life , I'm going to have to set out and go and reach it myself .
Exactly what my mum did . Like she , they wanted a lifestyle that we were accustomed to no , no , sorry , not accustomed to more to . They wanted to provide for us we weren't . Well , they were very comfortable . They had to always work hard .
Dad literally would get up at four o'clock in the morning , five o'clock in the morning he was in a pulse strap would go . He had a shed at home , would go work for two , three hours in the morning and then , you know , get us boys up , do the school run to go doctor appointments for Abe .
But then my mum would also be working 12 , 14 hour days , monday to Friday . So she'd come down the weekend and literally just be zonked out . Yeah , so she's got the work ethic of anything that's instilled in . I think was instilled in her from her father . All her siblings have a great like just hard work ethic . I've definitely picked that up from my mum .
There's a lot of things picked up from my father like just the fricking , like I don't know what I picked up . I think I'm very outgoing . You never , you never go down the street with to get a bottle of milk with dad , because even though it could be a five minute trip , you'd also run into five people and then it turned into an hour and a half .
Hey , can you tell us what the anchor to Wadonga is ? Is there family heritage there ? Because if your mum's commuting and making that sacrifice , there are alternatives for a living on the land life a bit closer to Melbourne . So what's the anchor for Wadonga ?
I don't know . I think they just love the regional , the regional outlook . There was one point in in our lives we did . They did look to move and commute to Melbourne Seriously , appointments for Aiden , stuff like that . But I'm pretty sure it's just that regional life balance of you know that sustainability , I think so . I think she worked in Melbourne .
It would have been about eight years before I actually did have a job up here , but it was just more that for them to for her to provide a lifestyle that mum and dad wanted than that . That was the option that they chose , that she would be . She always has been the breadwinner but yeah , that was the option .
They chose dad to be , stay at home dad , which was kind of bucking the trend back then . I think . I don't think I definitely know he loved it .
But it's also , you know , like you say , you may not have got a lot from your dad , but is it fair to say that family first , I mean ultimately , for someone committed to you know , raising the three boys doing his upholstery work you know of all hours in the morning but also been quite social , and you mentioned a moment ago that that he remembers that
conversation that he had with you at the dinner table . I mean how difficult . Put yourself in his shoes , how difficult is that for him and your mum , knowing that that ultimately they wouldn't have enough to give to everyone , because Abe was going to get most of those resources , because technically he needed them .
Yeah . So , like I said , growing up I knew personally I don't know if it was mum's guilt but if I wanted something I could get it . If I wanted a new bike , if I wanted anything . The different bearing on me I can always remember when I was even younger , is that I never asked , as I really felt .
If I look back and reflect , my younger brother always did , he didn't have that . We're like two different types of people that are from very young age . Oh , I didn't worry . So it wasn't a worry . I just never wanted anything . I was happy with what I had . I didn't need anything extra .
What do you think was sparked that response from you , Ethan , when you're at 15 ? Because you know , for context , you're your early 30s now , so you've got a level of , you know , emotional maturity that you don't have at 15 . But your response was sure , no problem , I get it . This is what I got to do .
And then you mentioned your younger brother , said what about me ? I think I think anyone would forgive you for having the response at 15 going well , hang on , that doesn't feel right . Why do you think that you had that presence of mind at that age to go okay , no worries , that's , I get it .
Yeah , no-transcript . No , I was big brother syndrome and , like I said so recently , I'm brought up like I've been diagnosed with high function autism , probably knows aspergers and so I've been reflecting on that like like a lot in the last six months and reflecting back in my past , especially coming on on now On this show .
It's crazy I can't much of literally just been thinking and thinking and thinking about the past , the past , the past and Then also making like , oh , that's why I thought like that back then with my aspergers now and it makes me just have realized that All the stuff then back then is why who I am today .
So I kind of think , yeah , that comment was kind of that was just the way I thought back then . It wasn't about that , it was yep sweet . So , yes , I know black and white type of answer that I just knew yep sweet . That makes perfect sense in my head , I understand that and I just went to that that way .
So we'll lean into some of the decisions that you made from that . But so what is knowing that you have aspergers mean to you now ? What ?
What's as you reflect back , knowing that there's a label and you know , I've got that in my own family , so I know it well what's the reflections you've had now on thinking okay , well , I know what's going on for me and how that might change your outlook going forward ?
Yeah , so I've always known and always been comfortable with who I am . I always knew , like you know , it was different and you know , black , black , white , white , I just kind of always accepted .
You know , that's just me , that's just my personality Moving forward , like it's just I'm trying to grow myself more , to have more empathy and more Emotional connections to people and stuff like that's a .
Now it's just again crazy reflection moment and moving forward Moment , like if you ask me this a year ago I probably would be like , nah , I didn't think the headspace and stuff would be out now would happen . I'm not , I was in a bad headspace or anything , but just more the reflection and trying to be my pathetic and stuff like that .
I should also note at 16 I literally got diagnosed with depression . So that's literally why I left school . Still to this day do not know why . I should like remember the date I literally just woke up .
One day I literally went to my dad because dad , dad and I have a great bond like said he raised us and dad was always Approachable , even to my friends , and stuff would always be like he'd always talk , be you know able , you'd be able to go to dad for anything . I mean always go out of his way for every single person , friends included .
Friends knew that . Yeah , I remember literally waking up , but I think I was 16 at the time and , oh , my fifth , yeah , like 15 , and just literally said I'm don't feel myself and broke down crying to him and yeah , that was that . That was that . So I learned of 16 .
That's when I kind of Sorry , yeah , 16 year 10 I was going into when that happened and just school wasn't for me , so Packed up and mum said you're going to leave school , you need to get a job .
So , even though Matt mum was a massive academic she had the uni fund already and everything set up for me Still to this day I think she still wants me to go to uni , even though I've done very , very well for myself . I still think , yes , massive academic , but um , yes , I literally got an apprenticeship as a plumber .
What would you ? What would you say ? Because there's someone who's listening to this , ethan , who might not have that same clarity that you do and and the school system Might not have served them and they might be creating some labels on themselves . That just isn't true . It's like getting a goldfish to climb a tree .
Right when you get someone in a schooling system who doesn't thrive in that , what would you say to that person who's listening to that , who might be able to relate To what you've just described ?
there is a massive amount of work out there currently For people that got a great and amazing work ethic . I mean , we've we've had Probably 15 school leavers or kids still at school come and try and work with us and majority of the kids don't have that work ethic and drive anymore or that that Nouse .
You know the practicality of you know wanting to go out and actually have something like hands-on , like we're a kid , rock up One day and we'll just said I'll read the tape measure and he started reading it out in feet and we're literally going no , mate , it's meals and set of me .
So if you want to have anyone with a great work ethic , the amount of work that is out there currently for people who want to actually have a Crack and want to rock up to work and go that extra mile , there is massive amounts of work and good paying work out there yeah .
Yeah , I agree , and I think having a son on the spectrum , being exposed to a number of people that can relate to some of the things that you're talking about , I think the quicker people can can rid themselves of a story that just because I didn't fit in that school lane doesn't mean that the rest of my life , because you get some negative labels from not
fitting into the school system , which , as a young kid , you can take some of that on board . But I guess the what you've just described and what my own observations are and what people are listening to this , you can relate to it better than I can .
If you , if you , if you tell yourself better stories and you go and put yourself in an environment like you seem to have done , and as your story will unpack shortly , we'll get to know there is a , there is a wonderful world out there for people like you and and generally speaking , my observation people like you who do not fall for those stories do amazing
things Doers , action-takers , a lot of care for other people . You know what you see is what you get . There's a whole bunch of positive stuff that comes from it and I I think it's I'm courageous of you to share that pretty vulnerable part of your story .
Hmm , like I said , I'm pretty . I want to be open and transparent with everything . I'm not trying to hide . Let's go down with them , because I don't think what I've done , and that's eight where I don't think I've done an amazing . That's the thing . Like , my achievements I don't view as there's amazing things .
It's only to use Ben's stuff , start reading that , all the statistics and all that type of stuff of actually what people have done . And then it was literally like you know the five properties .
So there was what 25,000 people or something on that , and then when I literally stopped and crunched the numbers , been like , hang on , if that's 25,000 people in Australia , how many of the people have done that under 30 ? Yeah , and that's statistically speaking .
Like when I go into that , I'm like , well , okay , maybe I've done something a little bit unique in me own right , but I've never , ever viewed it as being Something that's unique like that . It's just something I've just progressed and just done .
So let's , let's start to unpack a little bit of that story , because so you leave school year 10 , you get yourself an apprenticeship and Money starts coming in . So very first time that you get to start looking after your money , yeah , what sort of approach . What sort of knowledge did you have around money management ? What were you ?
You know what were the tricks of the trade .
Yeah . So Money started coming in . Then mum turned around and said you got to start paying board . And I and I didn't like that idea . So I don't know if I was quick-witted and it's response or something . I just said well , how about if I don't pay board , I say for a house ?
And she literally turned around said if you say for a house , you won't have to pay board . And I went yep , done deal , because I don't want to pay you guys money , best me self . So that was kind of the drive with that . Like they even trusted me by not you know , they didn't even charge for and put it away .
They just trusted me that I would save that money . And then from a young age , when once I'd made that comment I was like , right , so I'm gonna make , okay , I'm gonna have this first house and do all this , save a deposit . I actually started doing that eBay business .
That's back when the dollar was a bit parody I think it was like 90 cents and I'm not getting to it like a dollar ten top of mark . So , yeah , started importing little items and stuff like that , started selling my name a and you know I start and build that money up a little bit higher and higher and higher .
I literally I've never even with my properties , I've never literally had Spreadsheets or anything like that . I've literally just known the , the base figure coming in , like I'll sell in this item for this man of money , I knew the fees , I knew the postage , that was it . So I knew I , you know , and make five dollars per item of that profit .
I never tracked anything , I never done anything , I literally just tried an item .
If it worked , it worked , if not , and that was it so , ethan , in terms of you know , you haven't been as full-on or in terms of tracking money or looking after money or those types of things what's what sort of banking structures ? How did you , like you know , how did you allocate money for living and lifestyle ? How did you ?
You know , I just just generally manage your cash flow .
Yeah , so literally it was just money coming in . Mom and dad still put Dinner on the table . Yeah , I really feel that I didn't Like reflect on you guys and all that , like when you do say budgets and this and that I've still never really budgeted .
Still this day , like I never kind of had to , like I'm not saying I wasn't frugal by any means , like a 16 17 . I still wasn't making lunches Take to work , I was still happily gonna buy lunch and all that .
I actually found one of my old paychecks from when I was a first-year apprentice and I was on six dollars , 20 an hour first year and yeah , we're only talking what's that ? 12 years ago , something like that . Yeah .
So , but in terms of discretionary spending there must have been . It must have been pretty low . Like you did say before , you're not a Materialistic person . You didn't sort of throw all your money into cars or anything silly like that . Everything was focused Pretty much on on building an asset base and yeah , yeah , 100% .
The one thing that I kind of count lucky kind of for is that I was at that fringe Well I'll school near 10 of when social media was coming out . So I didn't have social media . I left school at 16 . I just got my first mobile phone at 16 . So I didn't have any of those connections like I had friends and all that .
But when you're 16 , then I turned around to start working five , six days a week , you lose that . I didn't have that social media to go . Hey , what's over the weekend ? Hey , what's doing this ? Like I just literally just would work , repeat , like that was it .
Yeah , yeah .
That'll do it . If you spend all your time working and very little time leisure , you'll find that . You'll find a way . You know , and again , your , your work ethic for your mom Demonstrated that you , you , were willing to put in the hours .
Yeah .
Hey , I was a bit . People with who are on the spectrum have incredible Memories like so my youngest Will say our dad , can you please go and get the the water bottle ? You know , before we go to basketball I go . Where is it ? He goes oh , it's in your , it's in your ensuite , on the left hand side of the base and next to the brush .
And I go in there and it's on the left hand side , next to the brush . The recall is amazing . So is that something ? Is that something that you can relate to it ?
And because you said you don't have a budget , and you said and our listeners will start to hear the size of your portfolio shortly as we unpack it but you know being able to be able to manage the moving parts from your portfolio without a budget and it must be you rely on something that's going on inside your , between your ears .
Yeah , so my memory like isn't the best . I remember rent . Like my memory is great with random things , like I'll remember the most random things that someone told me or something like random fact Ten years ago coming to be like , oh yeah , that's this , that's that when it comes to property , I can get properties .
I'd say nearly a passion is that I know I can literally walk in a majority . So we don't know , is my friend and butter . I have looked at going elsewhere , but every time I do the math I literally keep getting drawn back with a gun . Yes , I guess I memory was fine . Answers then , like that whole . I know what's coming in , I know what's going out .
In comes percentages . I wouldn't say I'm a math nerd or anything by that means . On math , like my tisha and orange , like that . When it comes to property , that's literally just my little niche . My passion that's that's what I know . I can walk into a place , say what , say what's worth , say what the rents expected rent to be .
In the dongle , I'm sure the times I walk into place , an option I say I pay this but I can go for this and I have built an amazing network around town like I can ring real estate agents is three or four there that I made , like you know , become a friendship with and vice versa .
I got one that actually brings me and says , how much do you pay for this property ?
Yeah , let's get into the , let's get into unpacking the property story . So tell us your first purchase .
Yes , the first purchase was at 18 . I purchased that for $183,000 . It was a three bedroom finance , for that was extremely hard , extremely hard . So I think I saved up .
I think it was about 20 grand deposit In the two in the two years of me working and by memory my recall , I was at the mortgage broker and the Pretty sure the LMI was going to be something ridiculous like $8,000 or something like that , and I was in there with dad I think I was going to do a 7 cent or 6 cent deposit at the time and then that ended
up dad even dad so happy to do it , but even dad turned around when he was in there . I feel like instead we'll let you lend . The other thing was $6,000 , $7,000 extra just to get me to that 10% just , and it literally have the LMI .
Yeah , it does so , rolling sky .
Yes , I literally have that insurance , so I'll just pay them back , and I think it was three , four months . I just worked real hard and paid them back straight away . It was great to have that support from them . They've always supported me like that , but I've always made sure that financially I've always paid that back .
Right , so first purchase 18 years of aid on apprenticeship wages , mind you , you know , with a little bit of support from mum and dad , that you said so . Thanks , mum and dad for that . Then what's next like , did you , was that the bug that started you off ? Did you think you needed more ? Or tell us about how you got through that first property .
Or did you move into it ? Was your ? Was it your first home ?
Yeah , no , so it wasn't . So I thought stuff this and , as I rented out not going to move into it , yeah , that's still burning the LMI pocket .
We're getting free board at home , aren't you right ?
Yeah , I still wasn't realised that I bought a house and accomplished that girl . I probably forgot .
Oh , so you , you rented that one out , you didn't move into that one , so you didn't use any first home owners grants or anything like that .
No , I've never used any first home owners grant nothing because literally the timing for me has always just been incorrect .
So I bought that one , still stayed at home , rented it out for two years I was 20 and then it got to a stage then where I think the tenant was moving out and literally the week before I think well , joel was talking to a mate and we're like I had good of a to live together Ended up , there was four of us that wanted to move in .
It was a three bedroom house , so I just tacked on another bedroom . So , yeah , I just tacked on another bedroom and that rent from the boys . I think it was , yeah , 80 bucks a week each . I think we're still talking 2013-14 , something like . I'm barred with dates . I should probably tell you the dates .
Yeah , it'll be 2014 and yeah , they only pay $80 each a week rent . So I pretty much live there rent free . By then I was qualified , so I literally just worked three , four days a week and partied the rest . So that was literally my pretty much my gap year , instead of going to school and having a gap year . That was it .
I was qualified plumber , just work myself and then , yeah , work three , four days a week and have me party , party , year , gap year .
Beautiful so was there any concerns ? You know , if you move in with you and three mates into someone else's house , the concern ratio versus living in your own home is probably a little high . Were you worried about we're in town ?
No , I wasn't too concerned about where in town , I think mom and dad were . But yeah , no , definitely was a big party house to put in the spa and everything in there .
so I love in the night . You said to us it was in brackets , you guys , it was one , it was one of the wild few years , right yeah so .
Not many memories from them years , but you know , it's one of those portions in life that I realized like it was just that great I had to have it . I'm glad I done it .
I could have literally just still scrimped and saved and probably being , you know , had another property earlier or when somewhere else did something else earlier , but it's just that it was that great thing that I'm happy I done .
Yeah beautiful so those , those few wild years get you know past you . And what's , what's the next move that you make after that ?
Yeah , so my grandfather passed away and then I was just like I want to . I want to purchase this house and me and me and me old man were actually quite happy with that because it was just in a quick , easy sale . There was , there was three of them , so they literally went and just got an appraisal from a DHS individual real estate all three siblings .
They just took the average and my skill real estate fees and that's the purchase price I got it for . Once again , even though I had I think it was the equity was around seventy , eighty thousand dollars in my first house . By then that second mortgage was still really , really hard to get Pilly on .
The fact is that because I was working for myself yeah , the banks didn't want to know me . So I was with a mortgage program of walking in and seeing him and he was like nothing I can do and I'll literally remember going . No , that is like there's , there's , there's ways around everything .
He literally just brushed me off like what's this 20 year old going in there ? Or 20 , 22 year old going in there and what another property ? Like I really felt like you've done your dash , dash now , mate , like I always had that , not vendetta , but I was just like that . You stuffed up Like you , this is going you'll you'll hear later on like this is it ?
And I actually fluked it up doing a job two weeks later for a local what are the local banks around here ? Describe the situation . And he just said come and have a chat . So literally went in there , had a chat with him . These literally it's just a small community bank . They've still got .
So actually , the town I'm in right now I think it's a population of like 200 , 300 people . They've still got a bank here now that still opens . So I'm now still with them today . But I've built this relationship with this mortgage broker who's , I think , by the time this comes out , I think he's due to retire .
He's like old school , top-of-the-line mortgage broker . Oh sorry , like bank manager real old school , literally . First thing I walk in there he doesn't ask about anything . He asks how's the family , how's everyone else going ? Yeah , it's a 10 minute conversation about everything else . Then it hits business . So it's that community spirit .
And back when interest rates were super low and all that type of stuff , I knew I was paying 0.1 , 0.2% more , but I was happy doing that because it is a community bank and all the profits were going back into the community for everything . That stuff didn't worry me at all , even though I could go elsewhere .
It's that relationship that I built and I can ring him up whenever and he just gets stuff sorted .
That's a really strong message around . Obviously , this is the community that you also run your business and get your results in , and it's obviously you need the success of that town and the area and the district to continue to thrive , cause obviously that's where the pressure on land values and , ultimately , the return on investment that you want to make .
I mean , the last thing you want in any of these regional towns is a shrinking town . So if that's what it takes in terms of having more industry bank people in those particular areas , it's actually a good new story for the future growth of the township . So you know , it's a nice way of paying it forward , ethan .
Yeah , yeah , it's like . I've always viewed it like that .
So you mentioned that you renovated that property . What did you do ?
Ah , so put a patio carport on , got the floorboards all sanded , kitchen , painted the whole thing , heating , cooling , new laundry . The only thing that was there existing was a disabled bathroom , but yeah , that just stayed and went from there . So you have the first person . That was $195,000 . And I used the full equity of the other home for that one .
I did have cash saved up there me and my ex-partner at the time , we did have cash there enough to buy it but I literally said , no , how about we buy this ? I use my full equity and then we'll go out and buy another one . And then , yeah , that's history , what happened ? So I think it was what have we got here A year later ?
Yeah , literally we went out and bought another one that was only $205,000 , did the same thing Full renovation . This was everything Bathroom , laundry , kitchen , everything . By then we separated and that was a quick , easy . Like you all keep this property , you keep that property , so we're happy with that .
So let's sort of get some bearings again . First property at 18, . A couple of years later you moved into that . The second property you buy at 23 , and then you obviously renovated that one . Then there's this interim property that you buy with your partner . Or is that the property that you bought by the age of 26 ?
No , no , no . So we bought one in between the other partner . Then we separated , yeah , that one , I kept the other one . So it was a fair , just even split , wasn't concerned about anything there . And then , yeah , so I needed a place to live . That's what I went out and bought the next one , 26 . And that was a mortgage auction .
So I'm pretty sure that was , yeah , feb 2020 . So it was a mortgage auction and biggest auction I've ever seen in Ladonga . At the time , auctions in regional towns don't go well pre-COVID , I think I would have like 35 , 40 people there , which is a rarity . You would have usually got six or eight . And I remember a bloke , a family friend .
He walked up to me and he also he does like to see flips properties and he said , oh , how much you're paying for it . I said , oh , I was not telling you price , mate , but I'm buying this today , like just letting you know .
So , literally I was in spitting more with this other guy and then he literally did one little cheeky bid and looked at me and smiled and just nodded his head . I'm like , yeah , you had to put that bid in there , didn't you ? Mate Ended up buying that and , yeah , did a full Renault .
An interesting thing that I did , didn't know at the time and I don't know if many people do Mortgage auctions . You don't actually own the assets inside , like the ovens and all that type of stuff which I didn't know at the time . Luckily , I've built a good rapport with my solicitor because it also had a solar system and a battery . That was on finance .
But , like I said , it's great to have a network where my solicitor literally went and sorted out all the problems literally running . The real estate agent said you've advertised this solar system and battery on the advertisement . If they come and get it you'll be up the bill up foot in the bill for a new system . So , like I said , I built inwardong .
I've got a great network of people that I've spent years building and that literally , yeah , phone call away and people that you trust . It's just the networking effect that does work really well . How much did you pay for that one , ethan ? That one was $192,000 . So if you guys get in the picture here , there's no capital growth .
Yields are a different story and that's what I've always done , my math on the yields . I think my first property was 6.8% Gross yield and always inwardong . They've always bounced between that five , six , roughly 7% yields . So I've never worried about capital growth ever because the yields have been such great where you could go elsewhere .
I've even looked abroad like oh , let's say abroad , like Wagga , like other big major regional towns , and I've never been able to make the math kind of work , especially when I can go in and , do you know , trade the time , do a bit of rent , always do it up Like I understand that .
But even cross-borderless , on places like I have a lot of Queensland and further away , every time I do the math it just keeps coming back to a dongle . Bit me in the ass now with the old Victorian tax , land tax , but that's all right .
Well , I think it's . It is important to understand and we've mentioned this on the pod plenty of times . It's like you can turn apples into apple pie . So that little value add extra that you can do and you get that at cost price .
As a plumber and all your networks and all your mates , you can add significant value to the property and have that equity that you're talking about . So that is why we always talk about you know , are you gonna be an active weekender ? You know an active worker in terms of because if you're an active worker and you can add value , why wouldn't you ?
That's the best use of your money . It's basically building you up a second business in terms of building that cash flow . So there's no problems with that idea . Because when you do think about the other properties in those other regional towns , they all need work .
Like if you're talking about buying in the cheapest five or 10% of the properties in those locations , trust me , they're not gonna be walking liveable straight away . They're gonna need some TLC and you can't do it if you're remote . So ultimately , a lot of people don't touch those and passive investors like us who are remote to those areas , we don't touch them .
But for people who live in a town , who have the networks , who have all of those things , like you do , ethan , you're in a great shape to keep doing that . But yeah , you know , your trade-off is that you're gonna have land tax kicking in on those properties .
Those higher yields are gonna bring you back to standard yields and so hopefully you're gonna see some capital growth over the course of the next two or three decades , which you know . I can't see Wodonga , or we Wodonga in all of that area going backwards .
I mean , I think you know , if you take a 20 , 30 , 40 year view , with the population doubling , I think a fast train or some type of hyperloop or some type of connection is going to happen into those locations and we all know it's super livable up there . You got like here , you got all of those . You got the ski fields an hour and a half away .
I like it , it's got . It ticks all the boxes from the last I'll point of view . So I can't see those assets closer to those city areas going backwards anytime soon over the next decade or two .
I've never , even when I was younger I mean 1920s , you know I'd go down to Melbourne have made a comment going like why are you still there ? And all this type of stuff . And I've literally always made the comment like it's got everything that I need . Personally , I don't need much . Like it's literally I'm content with everything I've got .
I don't want to be in the hustle and bustle , which is probably a bit of meass , but it's coming out of me now . I don't want to be like that and all that it's great . Because I love Wodonga , because it always just skirts the list . You never hear it about being a booming town . You never hear it about .
You know , oh , the property price has gone up here , like your Ballaratchi , bendigoes and all that type of stuff . And it's just a great regional town that always just skirts under the radar , which is I like that , like it's always means that it is going to be affordable around here , with all the regional benefits .
We've got everything that a city has , just in a smaller , condensed area .
Yeah , hey , Ethan , why back in ? When you were 26 , you bought a place at auction for 192,000 . Why was the crowd so big ? What was it about that property that meant that ever I wanted to see it I think it was we don't have many mortgagee auctions and it was a full Renault .
All the land size was 780 square meters , I think it's around there . So all the land size around here , around that 600 , plus this one . You could , if you wanted , to theoretically demo , put a few townhouses . I like character in the homes , Like I do like all the homes that I bought .
So the first two weatherboards I saw , first ones weatherboards , second ones brick this one's brick . They've all got hardwood frames . They're still standing . You go into new homes now and you'll see all the cracking in the plastering and all this stuff .
Like we appreciate you for old homes that are still standing means they're going to be standing for another 30 , 40 years . Yeah that makes sense , very true .
So 26 , you purchased your fourth property , but the third in your portfolio Because of the separation . So what happens next ?
So what happens next ? I move in there to a full Renault .
So now that's my .
PPR , so I still live in there . See , that came around and obviously perfect timing is old , covert , so everything started to double and price like that . So I was like you know I've got . So back to that property , I let go with my ex-partner . I knew the landlord next door .
They lived in Brisbane and every year I made him an offer , the local offer , because I always knew they wanted to sell . So I always made a low ball off a low ball offer . And then finally I I've rang him up and they said I wanted to sell and I didn't give me a number . I literally said , how give me , give me a number rough , like highs , lows .
And I literally came out and said high threes . And I just came out and said , oh sweet , 282 thousand dollars . And straight away they went oh , you're serious . I was like yep , serious , and that was in Feb 2021 . I believe , so July , yeah , so I bought that in Feb 2021 , but they wanted to settle next financial year . Yeah , for their tax reasons .
And I was just like yep , that works for me . At that time I was like the numbers work , but I was like I'm overpaying a little bit , but I wasn't too concerned . So all these properties are literally within five minute walks , but I was CBD , like I'm not , I'm not going out and buying , like all these ones are all central location homes , yeah .
So after that I was like February that I was like Overpaid , and then once again , kovac kept going and going and going and by the time settlement came around , I'm like I've made another 1520,000 Dollars in this property already .
Yeah , yeah . And when interest rates go down down to record lows and you know Victorians have been locked down or Melburnians have been locked down and regional towns Anywhere pretty much did well with it was a tree change or a sea change , so that obviously puts you into .
So that's property number 5 and with yeah , so you obviously got the other one with your partner previous partner , I should say yep , that one . So you bought five , you still got four remaining . Yep , is that the end of the story ?
No , and literally the neighbor in the same street approached me and she goes I want to sell . And I said I'll buy it . She said I was joking . I said I'll just give me . I said I'll buy it off , you just give me some time to get some more cash flow , and all that , like I was happy .
Then I think it was a month later it popped up on Online and I was like a rango . I said I said I'd buy it . And she goes I you said you need a deposit , like , say , I'm a deposit . I was like no , I've got other , like other could . I had other assets that I could could use .
So Literally bought it off her through the real estate , which was her bit of a rookie mistake , because then she ended up paying real estate fees . Yeah , so you end up purchasing that property for $300,000 Bit of land , banking situation starting to go on here now central dunga , so I didn't mind paying that .
That , even though all my purchases and all my properties have been logically thought out , I do feel that that's the only property that I did run . I don't know if it was that euphoria , that Excitement of the property market and everyone's still going around like even I kind of fell in for that .
By no means like no , means , it's like not a bad property at all , but I think it was yeah that . Oh shit , I can get another one straight off the bat . I didn't probably do my full due diligence , but I'm still running it for great money . It's yeah so the so that when you bought for $300 , I missed the price on the one previously .
So the um , so that when you bought for $300 , I missed the price on the one previously , the 289 .
Sorry , I think I said 283 289 , 299 , okay .
So okay . So then you , you've now effectively got five properties in central wadonga . So Tell us what , what's the , what's the plan from here ? What , what are you thinking going forward ?
Yeah , going forward , it's . It's funny because when I did first off my property journey it's weird I always thought 10 properties , you needed 10 properties . I think it's a common misconception . Uh , you always know , yeah , it's always had 10 as a goal in my head . I'm never going to do that .
Now , after literally listening to you guys , it is , it is out of reach . Not out of reach for me personally now , but it's not needed . Um , but like I must , I must have like if there's opportunities that go . I gotta present themselves to buy investments in that and I have the , the means to .
I will , um , all of my , all of my tenants pay well below rent , well below standard . Um , I think one of them's literally , I could probably get another nine to do $100 out of the property . Um , yeah , between 40 and $100 , probably on one of them , undervalued for rents .
And I'm not , I'm not concerned by that by any means , because the , the tenants I've got in there are amazing people . You know . They look after my property . I know them . Um , you know , I do get talking to him that that one I did pay for $289,000 . I bought that on the premise of that , that tenant kind of .
That's why I was happy to pay a little bit extra at the time , because that tenant in there was an amazing tenant . I saw him Looking after the place , cleaning the place up , um , so , yeah , he has , he's done a few renovations there for me , um , you know , and he gets subsidized rent for that and he's happy .
Um , I let you pay for the materials and he just goes away and does it and he's happy as anything . He'll probably he won't be a lifer . I've literally said to him I want to encourage him to go out and buy . He's a bachelor in his 50s , um , and I have one . I said , mate , like how about you do it like go out and buy your own place ?
I've encouraged him to try and help him go out and buy one , but he literally said he's saving to go buy out in the stick somewhere , blocking a shack one day just before he dies . And I'm like , yep , sweet righto , but yeah .
I .
I'm at that stage now in my life where I want to encourage people to go to property , like we've got a 17 year old that works with us , um , and we got the uh , we had him , gave him a conversation the other day in the trucks . That was mean man , the boston literally talked to me about compounding and how things work .
And now now he's literally , he's triggered and he's hooked , um , you can literally see . You literally see him literally like Not idolizing , like saying oh shit , you guys done it at this age and stuff like that . And it is achievable .
And I've got great feelings that he will achieve Stuff like that by the time he's 19 now my final question , before the big message of you know why you've come on today ?
um , what has interest rate rises done for you ? Have ? Have they , um , have they changed any views on anything , or are you still sitting okay ?
No , I've always done my math on six percent . Every single time I bought a property I've always done my sums at six percent . Um , I know right now I think I'm over all properties , all that goings like me , ppr mortgage and all that . I think I'm negative 100 bucks a week . Um over five properties . That does not concern me .
Um , even if it does go up further , I'm not , I'm not concerned at all . Um , I'm a higher than average income earner . I think the average now is like 80 something thousand dollars , isn't it something up there ? Um , so I'm a bit higher than average . I do have that income coming in . Um , yeah , it doesn't concern me .
I don't think I will ever bump up the rent to extort , like the , the fair levels . Um , there's always workarounds . Yeah , yeah . So I only put up rents to my tenants probably once every two years . So when I done all my mortgages , I always do two years fixed . Um , I want a few variables now , the interest rate's being so high .
But I've always done me sums off that I'd let me tenants run out the two years and then I'd bump it up 10 , 15 dollars .
Yep and in terms of like you running money through an offset account for your principal place of residence , debt or Ah yeah , I've got an offset set on that one .
Yes , that's correct .
So , athon , we , um we . We asked you what money means to you , and the summer series is the theme is what money means to you , right ? So you , when you came to us , you said , uh , lifestyle choices , comfort , stability , providing for your family and security what are that ? If we look under the bonnet of that , what does it actually mean for you ?
Because we've just had a conversation with you . You said you don't need much . You're really happy If you're comfortable telling us what your portfolio is worth . We can see the number . So it's significant . It probably is more than you need for what you've described . So what is the North Star now ? What are you going towards ?
And what does lifestyle choice , comfort , stability provide for your families ? Obviously , but the security , what do they actually mean for you ?
Yeah , so definitely there will be another PPR . The Forever Home there will be one of that . Like all the houses that I have bought are like owned , occupied houses , so I've lived in them , been happy in them . I am happy in a smaller house because it's less cleaning . That's my logic . Yeah , so there will be another PPR .
That is my vision and I could literally take the foot off the throttle right now and just coast by . I'm not being 30 years of age watching house prices double every year , even with the gross yields . I can just coast by . Ppr is the next goal the stability of just looking after myself and not relying on other people for financial goals type thing .
Like right now I do do what I wanted , like I am . But what's it called ? Not the compounding effect , but delayed gratification . I'm seeing that now , like I'm literally the 12 years of my investing . I'm already seeing that now I've last two years , I've gone overseas Just going back from Japan four weeks , five weeks ago in a box party .
I'm seeing that I just bought a brand new car with cash . So that delayed gratification now , only 12 years into this investment story , is already starting to come into play .
I'm not worried about I never had worried about money itself , but just that security and the security of being able just to go and comfortably do what I need to do and not have to worry about anything , is what it means pretty much to me just flexibility .
What does lifestyle choices mean to you , mate ? Is that dropping work down to a couple of days a week ? Does that mean taking half a year off ? What does lifestyle choices mean to you ?
Yeah , I don't think so . I figured out with my anxiety and depression at an early age I need to physically work . If I don't physically work , that's when my mental health goes downhill . So I have always pondered that question .
But yeah , I really don't know the full outcome of what it would look like if I do concentrate in 10 years , more time in my 40s , to trying to give back more . I love trying to help people get property . I generally do appreciate trying to help people out and say you can do it , that motivation , I've done it . I've done nothing special , you can do it .
I do love trying to give people that benefit . So in 30s I'll still work , always have to work .
Mate , I just want to pick up on that point where you say I've done nothing special . I think that's a really humble thing , but the actions you've taken haven't been special . But the collective body of work is special , because most people don't take action .
They actually don't put the foot in front of the other to actually do something , and I think that's where we can lean in on your story . What is special about it is you took action early , you took responsibility and you've now built yourself a portfolio that is several seven figures your portfolio . You can say it .
That's fine , you say it , it's your portfolio . I reckon it's between probably 2.2 and 2.4 .
Yeah , so significant right , but I think that's important for us to lean on here . The action of buying the property in isolation is not special . What is special is the fact that you've done more than one . The fact is that you did it early . The fact is that you had delayed gratification . The fact is that you actually took action in the first place .
These are the special parts around your story . So I guess for me , my closing question for you is why come and tell your story ? Before we pushed record , I said , hey , you're going . You said I'm as nervous as buggery . You haven't shown that throughout the whole conversation , by the way , but why go through that and tell people about your story ?
What is it that our call out to you made you respond and say , yeah , I've got to come and tell mine .
I just think recently , with the Asperger's diagnosis and me just really reflecting a lot . I just want the younger generation to know this housing affordability crisis and all that Young people can do it . You just got to A . Have a work ethic , have your mind to it .
You've got to take a little bit of sacrifices and if that's moving to outer suburbs , then that's what you've got to do to build up that portfolio to work in . It's achievable . So I've said I've done it . I've done nothing special . All I've had is a good work ethic . I've said $6.20 first year apprentice wages .
It is doable and I understand the fact that there is the higher cost of living with renting and all of that . But you can still do it by working hard and don't sacrifice a little .
Do you think that regional towns would embrace people from the city to come and do that ? Do you think that if you were to have , because someone could look at your story and go , wow , your lifestyle is congruent with your investing location ? So therefore , the sacrifice for you hasn't meant that you have to move away from family or move away from networks .
So for someone who lives in , let's call it , melbourne or Sydney , and they came to Wadonga , how hard or difficult or straightforward do you think it is for someone to try and integrate into new communities , to do that Then only to think well , if the goal is to go back , it's a transient community .
Do you think regional towns would be open to the city folk doing that ?
100% . Yeah , even then , like I said , if you're all targeting gross yields , like I do , and if you did not even move here , you know what I mean . There's properties that I know of right now Two bedrooms , five , 10-minute walks , wadonga , cbd $350,000 on 600 square meter block . There is properties right there right now .
I start talking to people about these properties and they go where . I'm like it's literally there , it's advertised , it's out there . Literally you've got to just put it . They're all there . You've just got to be on the beat , you've got to be there .
It's affordable to live if you want to sacrifice a little , and these properties are probably going to gross yield you right now . High interest rates , probably around 4% , 3% . But it's the story of once interest rates start coming down , those yields are going to go up and they're going to come down eventually .
If you weather the storm now , now's the best time to jump in when they are at all-time highs , because they're going to come down soon , then go up further .
Look , I'm speaking to the converted here in terms of this story , but there is a story in here about what you just said , ethan , around starting out why to move in . I mean , everyone has this idea of living in place and where they want to live , and that's the adjustment that they've got to do .
Let's be honest in terms of we all want to live in great places , but the reality is not all of us can afford to live there to start with . So if you're talking about property ladder and building up and building up in terms of what that story looks like , I tell you what . It's a pretty quick way of building a good deposit .
If you've got a five-year plan to get the biggest deposit you possibly can , throwing some money into an area like that where it's cash flow . You're getting leverage on leverage and you're thinking now , the next 12 months , there's a question mark on the economy slowing and what's going to happen .
But Ethan's point about lower rent rates coming through over the course of probably 12 or 18 months ahead , that's got to put conditions and we know rent's going to be tight . Things are going to be tight from that point of view . So I think , from all of those things , this is the type of opportunity that the next generation is going to have .
They're going to have to think a little bit outside the box in terms of what was possible for our parent generation and the now generation . It's just going to be different , and so these are opportunities .
So having people like you on Ethan , where you're telling them it is possible , it does require hard work , it does require action , it does require sacrifice , is actually a good news story .
Yeah , so like that housing , especially with that . What's the name of Ray White , the economist the other day talking about like building these $1.5 million , $1.5 million properties right now in New South Wales because we're building pools and stuff like that it's a 20-week wait for a building permit .
So , coming into her statistic and all that and how they're going to do it , it's 20 weeks for a building permit , which if you're looking statistically it's just unachievable straight off the bat , knowing that it's going to be 20 weeks just for one building permit in New South Wales currently .
Yeah , it's crazy , but that's you know . That's what we've got to ask the government to do a couple of good things , and that is , incentivize investors . Incentivize investors and also get rid of the red tape . You're killing us , you're too slow , or what you do . No , we're living in the 21st century . It's crazy .
Hey , ethan , you've had an incredible story . I wonder if you might circle the loop of the story back and maybe go to uni one day for your mum just to be a guest speaker to say to the students how they can actually do it and then show them that you don't actually need to go to uni to get it done . But , mate , your story is inspirational .
I'm really glad that you took the time to reach out to us . Thanks for listening to the podcast over the journey . I'm glad it's added value and had an impact on you . You obviously talked about narrative there , so you obviously get value out of some of the guests . But on behalf of everyone here on the property , catch man , thanks for your time today .
Thanks , legend . So yeah , definitely got over those nerves .
You certainly did , buddy . Thank you . Thank you , mate . Oh mate , how good was that . What a great way to start off a summer series . Ethan , that was a ripper story .
It really was . I mean , I'm looking at my notes here in front of me and there's certain things that I've circled like . $6.20 was his first apprentice wages . So it's not about where you start , it's about where you end and it's about what you do with your money . To make it work harder for you , I've got sort of things like it shows a bit of flexibility .
A no doesn't mean an absolute no . So the story about not giving up in terms of I think I can make this work and seeing how others do that .
I mentioned the star of the show , his mom's work ethic in terms of and just he , even though he has autism and and Asperger's , there's this idea of he's been able to overcome that the challenges with his , with his brother as well , and all of the resources that was going to go into looking after him , mean that he obviously , if it was to be , it's going to
be up to him in terms of his particular story . So I mean there's a hell of a lot to like in terms of . If I was looking after Ethan as an advisor just a couple of things I'd be fine tuning .
I'd be really focusing in on sort of getting that money story and cash flow story rather than sort of just having a rough idea I'd want to get you know , like when you start to getting to a size of the portfolio , you don't want the deck of cards to fall on themselves and , and you know , to have this debt issue .
So I would be certainly looking at sort of documenting that and to have a bit more precision around what I'm able to do . And of course you know he knows his backyard very well , he's a subject matter expert in that particular market . But obviously land taxing Victoria is going to be a thing , so looking to become a borderless investor .
So that's how I just say the fine tuning for me would look like , you know , getting on the more platform , taking a closer look at annualized surpluses and then what I can get to work on in terms of what I want to invest and spend .
But , ethan , credit to yourself , mate , unbelievable story and and our communities , the , the beneficiary of , of passing on the knowledge . So thanks very much .
But also a generational message being of saying people in their 20s and their 30s he's in his 30s and he don't have to do it in the CVDs . He talked about delayed gratification , that conversation he had with his dad when he was 15 that said , all right , well , I've got to be on the path and get this done .
I just , I just thought it was a wonderful story and a wonderful way to start the energy and the enthusiasm and he was so incredibly excited to share his story . So I think our community is the beneficiary of that . But , ethan , thank you for joining us .
Thank you for opening the batting here on the summer series , ben , and the good news is we got plenty more where that came from . We have got some incredible stories to share as people start to put sunscreen on Ben , start to think about winding down for Christmas and taking the holiday season off .
I get to listen to some really , really incredible stories , mate , but until next week Ben , when we continue our summer series .
Well , a couple of things . Bryce First property at 18 . Let that land and always remember knowledge is empowering , but only if you act on it . See you next week , folks .
Hey folks , bryce here again . I just wanted to catch you real quick before you go .
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