Alright , folks , welcome back to the Property Couch podcast . And Ben , we are deep into the winter series and have we got an excellent episode for you today , folks ? But before we get there , welcome to you , mate .
Thanks , mate . I'll always love these episodes where we unpack real life stories , real life examples around how they're unlocking their potential and creating financial peace . So it's an absolute honour and privilege to listen in to these shows .
It is mate , and it's kind of like it's alright for you and Bryce to do it or you and Ben to do it , but at least we hear from people who are actually applying the principles and doing it in their own life , which is amazing . So , without any further ado , let's cut to the interview you and I had recently with one of our very own TPC listeners .
Welcome to the Property Couch where , each week , you get to listen to two of Australia's leading property and money experts Bryce Holdaway , co-host of Location Location , location Australia on FoxTel's Lifestyle Channel and co-host of Escape from the City on the ABC .
And Ben Kingsley , chair of Property Investors Council of Australia and a back to back winner of the Property Investment Advisor of the Year Award , and both are partners of the multi-award winning Empower Well . Co-creators of more , the free lifestyle design app , as well as bestselling authors of the armchair guide to Property Investor and make money simple again .
Stay tuned as they bring you the insiders guide to property finance and money management .
Alright , ben , we've got another very special guest today appearing on our winter series of the Property Couch . We are talking to Property Couch listener , jason Bird . Welcome to the Property Couch , jason , jason Bird , thank you . Thanks for having me , jason Bird , it's a pleasure .
Hey , there's a fair bit for us to talk about for you , and not just property and finance , which we'll get into in a little bit . So just let our community know you definitely want to stick it around for this .
But before we get into some of the finer parts of your backstory , let's go right back to the beginning , jason , and let us know what conversations around money were like in your house growing up .
Jason Bird . Yeah , look , we talked about money all the time and my parents were really , really open about everything not just property or their mortgages and finances , but bills and having to get a second job because there were in a recession . All of those things that was communicated .
And I think the reason for that is because we were pretty inquisitive as kids . There was a stage where the recession hit and mum and dad were business owners and it kind of all fell apart and so our lifestyle changed a bit , and so , of course , we had a whole bunch of questions and I remember many times sitting there with mum because she was the one home .
Dad was always working and saying what's happened , why have things changed ? And mum just shared everything interest rates , mortgage payments , dad having to get a second job , mum having to work from home while looking after my own sister .
So there was a lot of questions and a lot of really open answers , which I'm so grateful for , because that obviously teaches you a lot as a young person .
Jason Bird . So in terms , can you give us the household composition ? So how many are the siblings ?
Jason Bird . So five other siblings , six of us all together on the second youngest . So we had a really full house and at that moment where I said , things changed , we were in a three bedroom , one bathroom home and yeah , so things were very colorful . Mum was also doing family daycare Jason .
Bird . So , jason , before the change , before what sounds like the business failure for your mum and dad , how was life before that in terms of with their business ? Jason Bird , you know , the business .
The business starting and failing happened very quickly . After that , my parents were just regular workers . We moved over from the UK . When I was very , very young and my parents were able to from selling their home in the UK , they were able to buy their home here .
They built their first home here and they owned an outright and my parents decided to start a business which is like a family takeaway restaurant and , yeah , it happened as quickly as they started it , it it recession hit and things kind of went pear shaped .
So things changed very , very quickly for us and so as a young , as a kid , I remember having to kind of grapple with my lifestyle changing quite a bit .
And it wasn't so much that mum and dad were you know , we were wealthy prior to that , it was just , you know , we had a big home and we had plenty of space and you know , yeah , it went to private schools and things like that . So there was quite a few changes and we weren't poor by any means , like .
We always had a roof over our head , plenty of food on the table . Mum and dad were awesome like that . They made it work all the time .
But , yeah , there was a lot of conversations about you know why we didn't have the cool things our mates did at the time and yeah , it was very enlightening to have those conversations , as upset as I was at the time to have them , but yeah , it was good .
So as you reflect on that time now , Jason , and look back and see that your mum was really transparent and open to you , how do you , how do you view those conversations now Because through the eyes of a I'm making assumptions here , but you're a teenager they can be quite overwhelming or they can be liberating . And which ?
Which way did you go with that information early , particularly about the struggles , not just the general conversations around money ?
Yeah , I think it as a young person , you know , understanding it was . It made sense to me that the reasons , you know we were going out with out a few things , they made sense to me but you know my attitude towards it wasn't great at the time , you know it was . It was all seemed a bit unfair , you know , selfishly .
But one thing I could definitely see was that mum and dad were working themselves , you know , to the bone . You know they were doing everything they could and you know you didn't have to be a genius to see that with such a large family and so many mouths to feed that , that it was difficult .
So there was a lot of understanding , I think , even from a young age , from from all of us .
Yeah , so so OK , so you're seeing this real life experience of challenge through the recession and what . What were the takeaways that you were getting from that in terms of managing your money , budgeting ways that you would apply ?
Some of the things that you were seeing via Rosmos is by having the conversations and how that impacted on your ability to save money or spend money or somewhere in between .
Yeah , that's a good question . You know , we definitely learned really quickly . You know , the first thing I've made a point of was I will never start a business for mortgage in my home . That was the first thing . But you know , it wasn't just the mistakes that we learned from .
It was also kind of I decided very , very young that I wasn't going to become that person that that worked as hard as my parents did .
I didn't want to have to work as hard as they did , and so we I learned from their mistakes as well , and they taught me lots about property and how it works and how finances work and how budgeting works and that sort of thing .
But I also learned that I just didn't want to work until retirement and get two jobs and have my partner work and , you know , have my kids miss out on things . It was something that I decided was like this is not going to be for me . So I guess that's the biggest thing I took away from that .
Can we get some context around ? When the family home needed to be sold to pay for , obviously , the losses in the business , did we rent straight ? Or do we buy something just in a different area and still had a mortgage when , when the you know , the eight of you were living in a three bedroom house ?
Yeah , yeah , we did still have a mortgage . We mum and dad sold and bought , but we're from a five bedroom house with three living areas to three by one , with very , very modest size in size and one living area in a backyard . Exactly yeah .
Now we also like to ask that's the picture for you . Like you said , at the end of the day , I want to work smarter , not harder , sounds like the story here in terms of I want to find a way that it doesn't require me to basically have the same sort of level of exertion that you saw your mum and dad doing around , working two jobs , etc .
To raise a large family . What about your brothers and sisters ? Because there's always an interesting study when you're growing up in that same sort of bubble that is your home Are your sisters and brothers different to money management in terms of how they approach money to you ?
Yeah , I think we're all different in many ways . I think I was probably the most inquisitive when it came to money and asking . I was really curious about budgeting , and so I would say I'm probably still the one that thinks of money the most .
But I had three older siblings and there was a bit of a gap between my brother and I , and then again a little gap between myself and my younger sister , and it's interesting to see the dynamic shifting between the three that are very similar the older ones , and then my brother and I , again very similar , not just with money but in all kinds of the way we
live our lives , our personalities , etc . And then my sister , again a little bit different . So I think , as life takes you through stages , my parents were going through different stages of parenthood and finances and reaching their own personal goals , I guess . And so , yeah , we are similar in those three groups . The co-horses yeah , that's right , yeah , co-horses .
So tell us then okay , so you're going through , so there's a fair bit going on throughout your teenage life and some adjustments that need to be made and some observations that you're creating , and then you're the most curious about budgeting . So what does that look like as you get to your first job and you get independence ?
Because there's I don't know what your first job was , but I know what your most high-profile job was that I can think of , around this late teenage , early 20s . So what was that ?
My first full-time job was I went for Music Shop Sanity and I was a store manager there and so performing . I was performing straight out of high school when I was in Singapore and did a stint there as a Princeton personator and I came home and got knuckled into working full-time and got a management position pretty young .
I was making decent money and I was putting money away for me buying my first property , my first home . And then things quickly changed . I auditioned for pop stars when I was 20 and things changed really quickly then .
So I only had about a year of working and saving prior to that where I was working as a retail manager and , I think , pretty good money for my age . I think at the time it was definitely comparable to what I was earning as a recording artist . It was probably from memory , says . I think I was earning a bit more as a retail manager .
Alright , so let's expand that a little bit . So for those who don't understand , pop stars was one of the original talent shows , reality TV shows back in 2001, . I think you won . If I tried , was it the year before where Sophie Munk won it in her season ?
Yeah , that's right . Yeah , Bardo was the first .
So you guys were scandalous and so all of a sudden , you would have been experiencing this incredible ride that for people looking back now , reality TV is just every second program , but back then it was some pioneering stuff . So can you tell us a little bit about what that looks like ?
Did you go from managing sanity to turning up at the Arias in 2001 as a group , probably one of the highest profile groups in the country at the time ?
Yeah , it all happened very quickly , just like that . Fortunately , I'd seen the pop stars series with Bardo it was the year before .
Obviously it was just for girls , which I was pretty bummed about at the time , but when the second series came up I was a little familiar with it , but it was definitely the first of its kind in terms of those big reality shows where they pump out artists and recording deals and that sort of thing .
So there wasn't a great deal of precedent to refer to in terms of the success , but it had just got signed and they were doing really well at the time . So you just think , oh , this is it , this is it for me . I've nailed it . But I did . I auditioned , I'd moved to Melbourne to try and crack the industry at the time .
I auditioned there and along with another , I think 12,000 people at the time , and , yeah , it was a grueling process , really fun . But , yeah , made it to the end and got through to the group , got given a contract , didn't know what to do with it , but signed it anyway . And yeah , things changed really quickly .
We started recording and the workouts and the touring and the interviews and we took the UK and it was massive , massive couple of years , massive .
And you can do it from context around that . Sorry , ben , just to build some context . Australian Idol was 2003 , right so ? You're even pre-Australian Idol . So , ben , you're saying , you know , I was just going to say give us some context around .
So , touring Australia , what sort of audiences were you performing in front of ? And then , obviously , in the UK , did you have similar sized audiences , or were they the sort of promo tours as opposed to the sort of big concert venues ?
Look , the thing about pop stars is that it was a really , really big show and everyone seemed to be watching it . So typically you'd think of a pop route , like we were a bunch of young people together in a pop route . You know to have a really young following , and we did have that .
But the TV show was just this vehicle for , like you know , exposing us to everybody . So we had all ages , all kinds of people that were heading up to our CD signing . That we did , you know , when you go around the country and just outside in the shopping mall and you've got seeds of people and you've got to sign every single one of their CD covers .
So we met all kinds of people and it was really nice to see that . Yeah , we had a very diverse group of following , which was nice . But then we went to the UK to answer your question , ben we were part of a sort of pop stars international touring a group .
So we toured with the UK pop stars we worked hugely there at the time , obviously and the German pop stars and there was us , and so we played to the biggest venues in the UK and they were all sold out , massive , massive crowds , thousands of thousands sold out every night in the biggest venues in the UK .
So that was a huge , huge experience for me and something you know tick that box off was like a you've got to play in . Manchester Arena . It was incredible .
Yeah , with tens of thousands of people in there , so hence that box . That's a lot of fun .
So , jates , that must have been Nirvana . Then , right , you're on Telly or doing packed stadiums . You're travelling around the world . You must have been creaming it in . The money must have been flowing like rivers of gold , I'm sure .
I love it . I wish , like I said , mate , I was earning I think from memory , slightly less than I was earning as a retail manager . So it was . There was a lot of eye-opening experiences during that time . As much as we had fun , money was not part of the deal that we were fist pumping about . We got to live our dream , absolutely .
We got to do some really amazing things , but the perk was not the cash , that was for sure . Yeah , and all the money that we made . You know it's the way it works in the industry You're advanced and so you got to pay it back .
So this is really important to understand . So they're still putting you up on suspecting in pretty good hotels . Would it be sort of four star , five star type hotels ?
For the most part , while we were in Australia , we rented and we paid our own rent through the small amount of cash that we were given as an advance on a weekly basis . So at the time it was pretty crazy .
Like you know , we were pretty well known , as you said , and so we had , you know , people camping outside our homes and stuff like that and you know paparazzi and things like that having to do with that every day .
You couldn't just live on a street front home and you know you had to have like sort of security and living in an apartment off the ground floor and that sort of thing . So rent wasn't cheap in Sydney City , you know , trying to have that sort of security and that sort of protection , and we were responsible for our own living expenses .
So let me give you a .
you couldn't choose where you got to live , but they took it out of your allowance as part of the contract and then so obviously you know we have as consumers .
We see you guys doing your thing and we're thinking great , they're probably off to some nightclub now and they have free drinks and they'll have food everywhere and they'll be put up in five-star hotels on their tours , but potentially all of that was then deducted from the salary that they paid you .
Correct it was . And you know it's not a secret that most bands you know when they're touring , that's where they make their money . You know , minus their management fees , 10 to 20% . You make your money from touring and you merchandise and things like that while on tour . Your gigs , your TV gigs , your appearances none of that came to us .
We just got a weekly advance and the rest of it went to pay for TV show .
Wow . So back then , who was in control of the strings there ? Was it the television networks or was it the music label ?
It was the television network , so we were owned by a network and not managed by a record company . We were signed to a record company for distribution only , which is something that independent artists do now , but it's under on their own terms , which is , yeah , works very , very differently . But , yeah , we were only managed by a TV company .
Yeah , right , and so is that what caused the sort of abrupt end of , you know , in terms of scandals . So you've had all this promotion . Were the record sales still holding up , or were they starting to wane and then , all of a sudden bang , it's just , we're done here .
Look , they were holding up . Like I said , we just got back from a huge UK tour and had lots of interest over there for opportunities to release in the UK and we were received really well over there . And the day we returned to Australia was the day of the Arias and we took home an Arias award .
That night we did a homecoming concert on Sydney Harbour and had thousands of people across the harbour on a floating stage and we played an awesome gig with Fully Pumped . We'd been writing our second album , which we didn't get the opportunity to do for the first album because it was such a short timeframe .
But we're all musicians and songwriters so we worked really hard on developing our next step and we got off that floating stage and we were told that was it . Yeah , it was our homecoming concert . So things were really really good for us at the time .
So it was a massive , massive shock and , being so young I was only 21 at the time it was a really difficult process .
This is pre-social media too , so you don't even have the luxury of building up a big following , which a lot of the reality TV show people has as their front of mind reason for going on these days . But how do you manage egos ?
How do you get pulled from obscurity , win a contest which in itself is an incredible mountain , and then you get thrust into this world where from the outside it looks like you are living the life of the Rolling Stones , but the bank account is saying no , you're actually being quite strongly controlled .
And then there's five people all in a band who have come together , who all trying to find their place in the world at that age , whilst being in front of people , whilst being on stage . How did water find its own level in that ?
Yeah , look , I guess we all partners were just . We were all family sort of oriented . We came from really humble beginnings and we had our families around us the whole time and you know we just never let it get to that point . We kept grounded the whole time .
When things ended it was a shock , but as much as we didn't know what the next step was , we were hopeful . And you know it wasn't until you kind of read that contract again for the second time that you realized there's quite a lot of restrictions . Even after the band was over we didn't have a lot of options in terms of what our next steps could be .
So it was difficult . Having said all of that , it was with hindsight I don't look back at it as a negative experience at all . You know I didn't make any money but I achieved some incredible things . I've got stories for days you know that my grandkids all were here about one day and friendships and connections that I made .
And you know we broke records , australian music records , and I've got an aria and some wicked memories . So yeah , as negative as it sounds , the experience for me was like I wouldn't change it .
And you're still in contact with the other band members .
Yeah , yeah absolutely yeah cool . That's the thing , Friends for life . You know , like you , when you bond over something that unique and really life changing , you kind of have that connection forever , I think .
Oh , 100% no , that , and so we need to close this out . They don't we like .
Ultimately , there was an interest to go on , but because the contract basically had you hamstrung in terms of trying to do this yourself or signing with other labels yeah , that they effectively , they owned the brand , they own the talent under the brand and that ultimately meant that the brand had to die based on their determination , because they owned you effectively .
Yeah , correct , ben , that's , you've absolutely nailed it . So they , they owned a brand scandalous . Then they also owned us individually as as far as an option . You know , they had first option on our next project as individuals .
So , yeah , it was , we had , we had choices , but they weren't the ones that other people would assume we'd have and they were quite limited . Yeah , so Hmm , Interesting .
Well , so I mean , clearly , we could go down that path for for quite some time to try and unpack some of those stories . That would be a little bit of fun . But if we try , and if we try and nudge it back to where we went , we , you know , we had a , we had a backstory of understanding money through your family .
You've had this incredible experience , but limited financial outcome from it . So what's the pivot after that ? What had ? How do you , how do you reconcile all of that and then go ? Hey , I'm , I've been curious about budgeting for a long time . I've been curious about money for a long time . How do you get your mindset back on track ?
And , and did it take a while to to land the plane from ? Like , let's be honest , like a lot of ? There's a lot of people with big profiles who struggle when , when the crowds disappear , right ? So it's got to be an element of that that you needed to navigate .
Yeah , definitely , but for me , Um it , I just looked at , you know , my engagement with pop stars as it's another job . At the time I was working as an entertainer as well as working in retail , so I looked at it as another job and I just went full force into like , ok , I'm going to buy my my first time .
That was my plan prior to landing the gig , and so nothing was going to change for me .
Um , I just ran into an issue there as well because , um , yeah , I , it was around the time where we had a property boom , you know , the early 2000s , and and over here in Perth there was , you know , house and land was the hot ticket and , um , you know , there was a lot of my siblings and friends and my parents were talking about , you know , getting a
house land package and unlocking instant equity . By the time you got your keys , you know , you'd have sort of $50,000 sitting there of equity that you could use to leverage , and that sounded perfect to me . It was exactly what I wanted to do .
So I kind of jumped full force into that and while all this , um , you know , on and off stage business is happening , on one side I was kind of working with my bank back here in Perth and and trying to get it that all sorted out . So I picked out a block and a home and I'm kind of preferable from a bank and uh , yeah , was all ready to go .
And um , I went through to LMI and got declined because I didn't realize at the time but I had a family member who had had a telephone deal in my name and and and didn't , uh , didn't pay it . So it was , that was really tough . Um , I got declined at the LMI level , everything I had pre-start sorted and all of that sort of stuff .
So , um , it was yeah , that was , that was you get any coaching around that to basically get your brother to write a stat deck to say that it was actually my phone and to clear your credit file .
I did kind of start that process , um , but look it , it's really different now . Obviously , there's lots of ways now to get around a default on your credit file . But , um , you know , for me back then , being as busy as I was , it just seemed like a really big task and I was just told , look , you got seven years of this default . So there was .
There was a good chunk where I wasn't able to get a mobile phone in my name and that sort of thing . And here I am jumping on a stage in Manchester arena . You know , like um it was , it was pretty shocking .
Yeah , that's , oh , that's terrible , but it's also a good little , you know , reminder for our community that credit files and credit . You know credit scores matter , unfortunately , and so you know there's there's often common um stories around people in share houses where phone accounts were set up . Now these days you really don't have a landline anymore .
Um , so lots of the phone contracts are in personal names .
But if anyone ever asks you to go and and cosine on a contract of a utility bill or any type of bill , be really careful of your obligations under joint and several liabilities here , because that is real um , and you can find yourself in a situation like you did , jason , which is what , how , when , bro , what have you done ?
You know like and , and then , as you say , you know life , life just gets slowed down for you until such time as , uh , you can improve . You know back in those days you should be called just your credit file . Now We've adopted , you know , positive credit scoring and negative credit scoring here , so that's , you know that's a little bit easier to navigate .
But back then I mean , when I was broken , someone had had something on their credit file was like , what's the backstory ? Cause we're going to go in for a big fight to try and mitigate it and get it removed from your credit file .
Yeah , that's right , and uh , yeah , it's absolutely right . Massive , massive lesson learned , um , yeah , so I thought that was an important part of the story to tell , even though it wasn't .
It wasn't good for me at the time and , you know , it was something I didn't really want to talk about , you know , obviously publicly , or even friends , I was quite embarrassed about the whole thing , even though it wasn't , wasn't my fault .
Um , but I think it is an important lesson and , um , I certainly would never , um , without incredible thought or , you know , um , make each other that I put the right things in place , lend my credit or become a guarantor for for any , any , just anybody , you know . So I think that's a really important lesson .
So you're about 22 or 21 at this point when this , um , when this happens and you're managing for seven years . To get that clear , how did you manage that seven years ? How ? How was that playing on your mind and what did you do during that time ?
Yeah , look , to be honest , not a lot . I just worked and um , you know , after things ended with that contract , I remained in Sydney for a while and , um , and I was really lucky . Actually , we were talking about , you know , things changing and a lot , a lot of things didn't change for me .
I was really fortunate to keep working in the industry and um get some more really amazing opportunities and um , and not have to , you know , go and get an office job or back back to retailer .
And for me , I really was lucky enough to be able to sustain an income , um , through the , through the industry , and so I just concentrated on that , building up a um , uh , you know , resume and getting getting sort of those boxes ticked and enjoying my life as an entertainer .
Um , and during that time it was difficult , like I said , I couldn't really get a mobile phone for a while . The only debt that I could get was sort of bad debt , you know , like things like car loans and things . So I bought myself a BMW , yeah , cause that's what I could do , and so I was like you know why , enjoy that .
And uh , and I did Um , but um , fast forward past that seven years and um , I just got back on the horse and , uh , I was .
I was running my own business , doing it as an entertainer and booking other bands and and a choreographer as well , working on TV and things like that , and and I also , um , worked at a nine to five just to kind of , and as much as that income in as possible , and it allowed me to get my first property .
Isn't that ironic , ben , that you've got a um , a scenario where there's someone who's saved the deposit , um generally wants to buy a house for an appreciating asset , and that no , no , no , oh , but you want to be in W , no problem , why don't you ask me earlier ?
Yeah , Depreciating asset that usually runs off at about 16 to 20% per annum , as opposed to an appreciating house that usually appreciates at around 6% per annum . Um yeah , it could have been a life change . Mind you , good news , Good news here , Jason . We've got a . We're going from Payne Island to Pleasure Island on this story .
Yes .
So so the BMWs got the choreography . What was the show ? Again that you were doing all of the dance choreography . Uh , so you think you can dance Australia . There we go so you think you can dance as well . So there , so you're being able to do all of these types of things .
So when did the big switch come in terms of , okay , you know , that was wonderful , I've been able to , you know , continue on my career in that area , and . And then when did things start to change ? And then when did things start getting super serious about , you know , your wealth building journey ?
It was around that time . It was once that seven year period of finished and I knew that I wasn't going to have any more barriers ahead of me , um , and I was pushing 30 at that point . So I was like I've got to get started real quick , you know , because this was something I was keen to do when I was in my early 20s .
So , um , yeah , I really pushed forward , um , and at that stage I still had the idea of building Um , and it probably wasn't the best idea . I bought a block of land , um , and not so great suburb , but um , it was something I could afford and I was kind of easing my way into , into managing mortgages and debt and things like that .
And um , and I was about to build and I realized that , um , I did a soil test and there was clay in the soil , because I was up in Armadale and um , I quickly decided to bail on that and I ended up selling the block , making a profit on it .
I had a sister who's an incredible real estate agent and um was able to to um to sell a block for me , and so I made a bit of money on it and I got my the , the whatever expenses I had on it . I got all of that back and in the meantime I was still saving .
So , um , I used that to to um put a decent deposit on on my next purchase , which was a two bedroom villa built in 1979 . The same time as me , in original condition in Como .
So , um , that was the next step , so um so , for those out of context , como is next to South Perth , so it's um , it's bought as the freeway and the river and it's nice and close to the city , so the land value is pretty high . But did you say the first one was in Armadale ? Yes , it was in Armadale , yeah .
So so back then I sort of a more of a lower socio um demographic , but still um , you were able to to make a profit out of that , to to move forward too . And I'm a Perth boy and I remember Armadale and you go .
When I landed in um Melbourne it took me a little while to get my head around the difference in Armadale , in um in Melbourne , which is very high end Um , versus the one that we experienced in Perth .
So so you bought this unit um 1979, .
What did you do to it ?
Um well , it was always going to be a cosmetic rental project for me and that's exactly what I was after . Um , it was in completely original condition and I think I had two owners at that stage , um in its lifetime .
So when I got in there , I just um pretty much straight away um started working on it , gutted the garden , gutted the inside , um knocked down some archways and um saloon doors and that sort of thing , ripped out the kitchen and the bathroom and um and just pretty much we did the whole thing . Um , from a cosmetic perspective , there wasn't much .
There wasn't any structural changes , so it was a real easy one for me . I did some of it myself and got in the trades to do the the good stuff , and um managed to um make a target profit on that one . It was um . It was really good .
It was around the same time that I met my partner he's now my husband , Daniel and he was renting at the time and he wanted to get into his own place and so while I was renovating , I was spending a lot of time at his place and while the renovation was happening . So it was good to work that well .
Yeah , so that's the second well , first house purchase being a villa and obviously the land was the first one . Did you keep that property , jason , or did you flip it ?
I still hold it to today actually . So we leveraged off that and Daniel was , as I said , ready to buy his own place . He was looking at a house and land package as well . At the time , we kind of put our heads together and just said , look , you know it's , we've been together for a couple of years .
Then we thought maybe we'll do this together and we'll be able to kind of , you know , buy it off a bit more together . Yeah , that's right . Yeah , that's right . And so I was still working , you know , running my business and working full time as well at the time .
Daniel isn't an executive , so he was doing quite well financially at the time in terms of his income , and so we decided to put our heads together and look for something together . And I was at that time I was like , look , I'm not doing that , I'm just not about house and land packages .
I could see that it wasn't the right pathway for me and I was onto something that I felt like was working for me by adding value to property with the renovation .
And so I started looking for that best house , worst house in the best street sort of scenario , something I could add value to straight away , and I was always trying to purchase it under purchase prices . Also . It was a really hard search . But I was looking in suburbs like Apple Cross , mount Pleasant .
I'm a South East , so I was looking around and so we landed on a three bedroom , two bathroom split block in Mount Pleasant which was a 90s sort of early 90s build and it would have been rented its whole life . So it wasn't in good shape . But structurally it was beautiful . It had great architecture , really nice design and three living spaces .
So we were like this is the one . We jumped into that one and we got it for a bargain . And we got it . I think it was about 50 or more under asking price at the time . So a couple of things were going through my head at the time . It was like , great , look , we've got something that we could work on here .
We're in a good suburb and we've got plenty of scope to add value . But , wow , this market seems like it's a really good one to buy . Maybe we should do that again straight away , you know , because we've got a good deal , so why not just do it again ?
So we , straight away , just went look , how do we add value real quick and then get back on into the market again . So we added an exit bedroom . We had a huge living area up there , kind of an L shaped living area , and there was two more downstairs .
We were like we don't need all the space no one does so we chucked up a wall and created a fourth bedroom and we threw on an outpost . Go out the back and got the house revalued and straight away made a really tiny profit on it , and so that's the paper profit .
Can I just get ? A year of time . What sort of year are we talking here now ?
So this was 2018 . 2018 .
So you're listening to the podcast as well . You're doing everything we say to do in terms of don't go by house and land on the house . Good , Come on by something that's got a little bit of charm , a little bit of own and rocker pie appeal . Keep adding value to them .
Was there any type of rule of thumb about dollar down for $2 in return in terms of your budgeting for the Renault's ?
Yeah , there was . I was looking at the start of a 10% to 15% investment on the Renault , but the market was moving quite quickly and so I should have stayed on the purchase price . But I had confidence that the market was moving in a direction that would allow me to spend a little bit more , and so I pushed that budget up .
I realized that a higher end renovation would give us a better return , kind of really early in the piece , and so that was our goal . It was like let's spend a bit more to make a bit more , and fingers crossed that we work . And I've done all my research . I spent hours and hours and hours looking at all the different options and crunching the numbers .
I was listening to you guys a lot , and so it all worked out , and I double checked it many times . I was like this is going to work . So we did start that Renault , but we decided that we wanted to buy in that market .
As I said , we were just like let's just get something right now and while we can , while the markets really good , because it looks like it's going to go on its way up . So we had a look around and we saw a 3x2 in success , which is Coburn area , still south and it looked like it was a little bit neglected .
It was very , very new Less than , I think , just over two years old and the lawns were unkept and there wasn't many photos on the website . So we were like I'll look , you know , if someone doesn't care about this property , let's go and check it out . And we went in there and we were the only ones at the home open .
So we were like I'll look , I don't think this , this like whoever selling this property hasn't made a lot of effort , so that it's . It's not like an opportunity . So we offered just over land value and we got that offer accepted and over the line straight away , and so we made a really good profit overnight .
As soon as we settled on that , we made a really really good profit on that one too . Was this in 2018 as well ? This is 2019 . So early 2019 . Yeah , so yeah , we bought toward the end of 18 . And , yeah , by the time it settled and we moved in . So it did . It did the couple of things that we wanted to do to add value .
Then we jumped straight into the next purchase .
Because I was writing some things down . I was trying to get the Coma purchase . It felt like you said about 30 , I think you're a 1980 child , aren't you ? So that's about 2010 . Was it ? No , it was 30 .
It was 30 when I bought the block .
The block was the block . Yeah , that was when I started .
that was when I started saving towards the block and but by the time I bought Coma was I was about 35 , 34 , 35 .
Okay so that's about 2015 . So you go to the 15, . You go Mount Pleasant 2018 , you go Success in 2019 .
Yeah and yeah . So Success was because of the . We got it in bargain price . It was positively gearing for us from day one , so it was a good little return for us .
And then COVID hit , like not shortly after that , you know , it felt like we I was planning a renovation and then all of a sudden I had no trades and wasn't able to get anyone at the house , and so it was a bit of a nightmare at that point . So , yeah , fast forward to early 2020 .
And I've kind of got a bathroom ripped out and and laundry ripped out and yeah , so we couldn't have any trades at the time . We're living in the house , my poor family through absolute hell . At one stage we had no floors and you know we had another lockdown and it was just freezing in the house . It was real messy but we pushed through it .
My family are absolute troopers . We pushed through and we renovated the house and I think all up . It took about just over two years to renovate and we did everything kitchen , bathrooms , laundry , flooring , window coverings , paint . We ripped out the stairwell and replaced the stairwell with , and the mezzanine with , glass and we redid the whole lot .
So it was out of the Alpressa . One first thing we did the front yard , retaining all of it like it was a massive , massive project , but transformed the house completely and we made a huge , huge profit on that one . It was just over $400,000 on that renovation , and yeah , so .
PPR right , so you didn't have to pay tax . Yeah , nice .
Yeah , so these are all paper profits we're talking about , because obviously we still got that one in the portfolio .
No , so , look , another lesson learned here .
We're working with a broker at the time and we wanted to hold that property , ideally , and the house was on a half block , as I said , and although we converted to a 4x2 , it was a 3x2 to begin with , so you can imagine it was quite modest in terms of the living spaces , and the block itself was , you know , I think , 380 square meters .
We're both ethnic families , we both have , you know , really big families . As I said , we had the two kids and plus we had my mother and my mother-in-law , jackie , living with us , and so we just wanted a bit more space and so ideally we wanted to hold that .
And then we had our eye on moving into , you know , a more suburban area and getting a bigger block and a bigger home , and so we had our own , the property that we're in now and leaving , and we had some friends that this was one of my best friends at high school it was her parents' home and so I spent a lot of time here after school getting into all
kinds of trouble . But they wanted to sell and downsize off market , and so we kind of approached them and had a chat and mutually wanted to move forward together but at the time holding Mount Pleasant but the market not really peaking yet , our broker wasn't able to get it over the line to hold Mount Pleasant and purchase Leaming .
So it was a big lesson , you know . Since then we've kind of moved on to another broker and we've realized that there is so many ways to skin a cat and if you've got someone that really knows what they're doing and it's investment focused , they can kind of make things happen that others can't .
And it's all about their relationships and their experience and their knowledge about you know what you're next step and understanding what your next step is . And so we , with hindsight , if we kind of made that decision to choose a broker that was more in line with our goals at the time , we probably could have held on to that property .
But You're talking about an investment savvy mortgage broker there say yes , that's right To quote you , yeah , an investment savvy mortgage broker , and it wasn't . It was a really harsh reality because we didn't want to miss out on the opportunity of owning the home that we'd fallen in love with .
It was a bit of an emotional purchase because it was ideal for us in terms of our family and what we needed , and so we ended up putting the house on the market .
But we did make a really tidy profit and I was a little bit concerned about the land value where we were , being that it was a very small block and it was a busiest grade and we just had this beautiful shiny renovation , this beautiful new home . That was very appealing . But of course those things depreciate and I was really mindful that .
You know that , the block being as small as it was and on the busiest group , that the once the value of the bill declined , that you know it might not be the right investment for us in terms of you know what we do with our money , so wanted to get into something that was a bit more substantial more land , more , you know , bigger house and we felt that
would be the better decision for us . So we did sell and a tidy profit and purchased our PPR now and here in Leaming .
So what's the inventory look like now ? So you've got . You've still got Como , you've got Leaming . It sounded like Mount Pleasant was the collateral damage of the mortgage-breaking advice . So what does the portfolio look like now ?
So we still have success . So we have Como success and Leaming and just about to make our next purchase , but yeah , so we held . The only one we had to really let go of was Mount Pleasant , the one we renovated , and yeah , so that was our PPR . We moved into .
I'm writing notes about that renovation Ben for the success property . So I've clearly clearly got to listen a little harder , so but it was the Mount Pleasant one that you moved . So there's three properties and what's the goal mate ?
Because you've been listening to us for a little while , you know it's all about accumulating , just enough so that you can retire out the debt and create some cash flow . Does that resonate with you ? Is that part of the plan ? What's the North Star for you ? What are you going for ?
It is . That's the plan . You know , I kind of inherited a family overnight , which has been the best thing that could ever happen to me . Never thought that that would be possible for me , but fortunately , daniel and his two kids have become part of my life now and we're married , a family .
So you know , it's so important for me to be able to take care of them and not kind of go down the same path as I did as a kid and have those conversations about how difficult it was . So it is about passive income and it's about being able to have the freedom of choice when retired and make that retirement age a decent one .
So , yeah , it's , it's tricky because there is , there is more of us now to consider , and Daniel and I are pretty different in terms of how we spend and how we save and how we work money . So it's yeah , it's , it's a big , it's a lot to consider .
Have you combined household sort of spending together ? Is that sort of now universal ? You're running a sort of a budget system ? Yeah , we do .
We've combined everything and you know we're really playing on a fair and second moment , which is which is where we've landed and it seems to be working for us . Daniel's got a great deal of trust in me when it comes to making property decisions and financial decisions , and I've got a great deal of trust in his ability to earn money .
So he , we do , we do , kind of respect and trust each other .
He does it really well .
Yeah , yeah , I think so . So that's a good thing . Daniel also balances me .
I think about money a lot , I think about it for a gallery a lot and and you know , I'm quite happy to go without a lot of things , you know , in terms of keeping the big picture focused , Whereas he's a little bit more about enjoying each moment today , which is a really nice balance for me sometimes .
So , you know , he works super hard and occasionally likes to experience joy now and have that instant gratification , not in a massive way , but just to enjoy the moments of the journey , you know , on the way up . So that's a good balance for me because , yeah , for me it's I can . I can be a little focused sometimes .
So so now you're well on your way , you know . Congratulations to you and Daniel . In terms of putting this story together , it's clear to say that maybe , with an investment savvy broke , you may have been able to hold on to Mount Pleasant . That hasn't happened .
We can't change the past , yes , but what are , what are some of the other sort of key messages that you want our community to take away from from your story , jason , in regards to you know , what are the things that you would like that that community to our community , to sort of understand about what's possible when you apply ?
yourself . Yeah , look , I think you know , for me adding value to a property isn't for everybody , I think , but it's the possibilities .
Just to think that you know , you could profit $400,000 on a renovation I mean , obviously there was a market shifted in that time as well but still a very significant amount of profit just by adding value cosmetically to a property . Like , the scope of that is .
You know , a lot of people didn't believe me that when I was saying this is what we're going to do and we're going to start here and I'm projecting that we sell around here or value revalue around here and people can't . That's not going to happen .
And I think it's important for people to understand that , like , if you , if you understand how to purchase at the right time and making money when you're purchasing , you know , try , try and get a good deal on your property Obviously everyone's trying to do that . But you know , try and manage that emotional connection to the property when you're buying it .
You know , when we purchased Mount Pleasant , it was all about like that next step for us and it wasn't emotional at all , even though it was our family home .
And then you know , really going with the bones of the property and looking at , you know , the , rather than going with your taste and what it was that I wanted in a home , I was looking at the property going how do I add value to this in the most cost effective way ? That's going to complement the house .
And it's not about me , it's about , you know , kind of making the house , bringing it up to its you know , former glory , and , and then beyond . And so you know , although it's not for everybody , I think it's not as hard as people think . You can add value to a property and you can do it in a really big way if you're smart about it .
And , and for me , I don't think I would ever buy a shiny new property anymore . You know , once with all the glitz and glamour that you walk in , it's all done and all you got to do is put your , your furniture in and sit down and go . Oh , this is great .
To me it's like a lot missed opportunity where I'm putting that money into someone else's future rather than , you know , doing a bit of work myself , saving a bit of money on the purchase , but also adding that extra value for me to to leverage off a bit later on .
So you know , for me it's about purchasing , making your money when you buy it , then adding your value , and then , obviously , capital growth as well . So those are the the three things that I look for and try and tick all those boxes .
It's not easy particularly in your town , in the , in the lead up to the pandemic . You know , in that decade there wasn't a lot of market growth .
So the fact that you were actually able to get in there and use your hands and be active and create equity through you know some of the things that you were able to apply , I think that was important for that time as well , so that you because some of this , some of the success story , has been from , from the manufactured equity that you've created , so that's
that's , that's something to think about within markets that don't enjoy just that that lifting growth as a market . My final question for you , mate , is why , why did you say yes to coming on here ? You know , you've been listening to us for a little while . I put the call out Summer Series , winter Series .
Ben and I have been doing this for some time and we we get enormous joy out of having conversations like this , but people get nervous , right . And why , why , what , what , what was in it for you to come and be transparent and tell us that there was no money in the early days and tell us that you you had a credit issue ? Why did you do it ?
Honestly , bryce , it was because I have been listening to you and all of your guests have been so wonderfully open about their stories and I have taken so much away from those .
I love listening to your updates you know RBA updates and your your knowledge from directly from the two of you but I also get so much out of your guests and how they're so transparent and they wear their hearts on their sleeve telling their stories . I've learned what not to do and what to do from them as well .
I feel like I've had the same experience and you know , throughout your life there's always lessons learned and if you can afford someone else to not have to experience those , those lessons themselves and learn from yours , I think that's .
That's a brilliant thing to share and I've really enjoyed being part of the community with you guys and your guests and all your listeners and and and learn from that and to be able to share my stories .
It's a privilege , absolute privilege , and particularly for me and for Daniel , both of us pretty much starting a property journey in a big way in our mid 30s . I want people to know that it's not too late to do that . You know . You know a lot of Investors are starting younger and that's brilliant and I think that's amazing .
You know , the younger the better , obviously , but you can still do it . If you think it's too late , I feel like get on that horse now , knuckle down . You know , have those conversations the robust conversations need to have a partner about spending and discretionary spending and you know essential spending and cut back on both .
Do what you have to do and just make it happen . I think that's important for those older listeners to know .
Look , I think it's a powerful message and the irony is that Ben and I just regular guys having a swing as well , but a lot of people can , because of this platform , sort of say it's easy for them . But I agree that the stories that you get to share , I think , are more valuable .
You know , hopefully Ben and I have created some frameworks for people to have in their head so that when they hear stories like yours , they can make sense of your story through the frameworks that we've laid over the journey . Right ?
Because the irony is you're in a house in Leaming , which is the suburb next door to my mum and dad's house , and we both went to the same school , and so there's not too much difference , right , other than we're both action takers , we both actually have an eye on a longer time horizon and we're prepared to do probably something that not everyone is prepared to
do . So thank you , mate , for being so transparent . And you know it's fascinating , I must admit . It's fascinating for us to have a little listen , to see what life's like for someone who's as talented as you are with your gifts , around going and packing out stadiums and doing television shows and all that sort of stuff .
So it's a privilege for us to get the opportunity to get insights into your world every single one of our guests , so thank you for allowing us to do that , mate .
Yeah , and if I can build on that , the privilege is ours right , ultimately , you know , for you to share your journey and for all of those people who've come on the pod to share their message that inspires others . That's our privilege . We get to listen firsthand , we get to ask the questions , to dig out the gold that's in everyone's journey .
So thank you very much , mate , for giving us that opportunity .
Thank you again for sticking around , mate . I 100% believe that there will be someone listening to that going , huh , that just landed for me that little piece of gold here there on your story , and not only property story , but how to get back up after disappointments in professional life as well .
And you , clearly , you're still gigging in that around Perth , aren't you ? Yeah , yeah so . I have a regular weekly gig here with Fremantle and yeah , so so how can someone who's listened to this , who's in Perth , come up and say good-bye to you ? Where are they going to find you in Frio doing that gig Friday ?
nights at Benny's Bar in Fremantle , from 9.30 to 1.00 till close . Every Friday night . We'll be there . So yeah , our band's name is Common Crew and we play R&B Fridays every Friday at Benny's Bar .
And if they mention the property catch , can they get their request put straight at the top . I will buy them a drink .
There you go . Let's do that ? Best cocktails in Perth ?
I can tell you that we don't want 400 people rocking up and saying where's my free cocktail there ? Yeah , yeah , let's remember , you're making money out of pop stars .
Good for you Dad .
We're going to let you go , thanks again , on behalf of everyone here in the community , for sharing your story . It was fun , mate , thank you . Thank you . Thanks for having me .
My pleasure , Thanks guys .
Well , there you go . What a story , ben . There's a fair bit of ground we covered there , but from stardom to profile , to the disappointment , to locked in contracts , to just getting on with it , ben , and actually just building out a portfolio despite what's going on .
Yeah , I've got some notes here that you know , sort of that I took away .
Obviously there's a lot of transparency in terms of Jason's story and you know to believe that he was on this sort of pathway to a better future and in the passion field that he was in in the industry , in the music industry , and then to have that carpet pulled from under him but then to just basically have the resilience to bounce back , stay in the industry ,
keep doing what he loves doing . You know my , you know my other notes here say knuckling down . If you knuckle down , you put the effort in , you do your research . It's not too late .
That one was also really , really important and I think it's also worth putting in the context his story around the timing of the renovations and being able to buy those properties in what I would call , you know , a depressed market .
During that time Perth was definitely down from its peaks around that sort of 20% mark around when he was first starting to look at that . So one of the things that that's a really important message there when you are looking to do that type of renovation story .
And he gave us a little clue when he said we bought one of them for almost land value , basically got the how . So that is you know , to the point I'm trying to make here . Jason did have a really good timing phase in a depressed market .
He saw an opportunity , he renovated in that depressed market and then ultimately time the exit on that property really well to get the $400,000 realization . Now , that's not always going to be the case , but that is about also thinking counter cyclical .
So we talk a lot about demand , supply and getting into markets that we are confident are going to have short term capital growth .
But this is another classic strategy of when you can get into a market and you can basically think in terms of decades , not in terms of years , and that allows you to obviously buy in a depressed market , get a good buy and get something that you can also add value to , which limits your downside risk . So that is also an excellent strategy .
So , to his point , he was confident in that strategy playing out and on that occasion it paid off in spades .
Good summary , Ben . I think that props to him for doing what he's done , along with his husband there , Daniel , taking on new challenges , new experiences and also navigating to his words . Were , you know , differences in the way that we manage money , and there's that . There's that leaning on the trust that Daniel has in Jason , which I really liked as well .
But I just think , Ben , you can't imagine what it feels like to to do something around music to large crowds and then have that disappear . You know footballers and there's a bunch of people that do that and then they struggle afterwards .
But it seems like Jason is going from strength to strength and then still obviously dabbles in his passion as well in terms of that commitment that he does to giggling around and also , you know , free as well . So lots of great stories there .
You know made a comment that it seemed unfair what the parents were going through , so use that as a platform to say , Well , I don't ever want to have that happen to me . I don't ever want to work as hard as them , and really has a clear plan on on accumulating his living lifestyle by design . So well done Again , Ben .
I love it when people just come and be transparent and authentic and open to sharing these stories because it will help others . So any parting words for you .
Well , it was more of . I think you just tapped in on something there that I just , you know , wanted to remind myself of is that struggle motivated him to think about how he looked after money , and he said it a couple of times there .
I really think a lot about money and to be in the financial position that he's in he's also not only has he thought about money , but he's also acted that knuckle down type story , and so now he can again do some of his love work in terms of performing , like he does on a Friday night down there and free mantle and do all that type of in the knowledge
and the comfort that you know . Basically , they're also building quite a nice , comfortable wealth base for themselves , so they'll never have to worry about money again .
And really , you know , for a lot of people you know what what a lot of people want out of their money is what they've already got now and more consistency of that when they do finish up working , and so that's another great message that came out of Jason's story today , so I just thought I'd also drop that in at the end of the show as well .
I like it . Part of the alumni been the Leaming senior high school alumni , the free old doctors alumni . It's not very often that you get to chat to two people on this podcast who are free doctors supporters because , let's be honest , I don't bump into a lot of people on this side of the country that are free or free or doctors supporters anyway .
So good chat , jason . I think it was well worth all of the experiences that you shared with us and I think our community will agree . Been so . We love winter series . We will never get sick of it .
So mate until next week knowledge is empowering , but only if you act on it .
There you go , folks . See you next week . Hey folks , bryce , here again . I just wanted to catch you real quick before you go .
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