But I hate the sound of my voice. Those are usually the first words new podcasters Tell me, their confidence is shaken. They think they don't have what it takes their mind has misled them to believe they should be amazing. The first time they sit down in front of the mic, you the height, you're supposed to be good right out of the gate. Oh, no, we're all terrible in the beginning. And guess what, you can't change the sound of your voice. So let's fill it with confidence. instead. This book is meant to educate, inspire and encourage you. I don't have some fancy degree in podcasting, magic. I can't make you sound like you're in a million dollar studio, when you're really recording in your closet surrounded by piles of laundry. But I can teach you how to create content your audience craves, every week, I can teach you how to sit at your mic with your head held high. Because you know you're talking to the exact person you want to reach. you're delivering valuable content, and you're not agonizing over all the stupid editing, can we stop losing sleep over the editing? I'm not saying podcasting is easy. It takes a lot of work, planning, learning from mistakes, being vulnerable and trying to improve every day. But with the things I'll teach you in this book, at least we'll have a lot of fun every step of the way. So let's get started. Okay, guys, that was the cover of my brand new book, start a binge worthy podcast a step by step guide to creating a podcast your audience craves, and it's actually on pre order right now on Amazon. So go to the best podcast book.com to order your copy of start a binge worthy podcast again. That's the best podcast book.com it will be available on October 20 2020. And I cannot wait to see what do you think of this brand new project. So go grab it the best podcast book.com grab your copy today.
So I'm a little more giddy today than I usually am. And I'm sure you're like Wait, how in the world can Krystal be even more giddy about podcasting than she is already? Well, because we're talking about creating audio books today. And the reason why I am extra giddy is because I'm actually in the process of creating the audio version of start a binge worthy podcast. And today's guest is weird, like the whole conversation is dedicated to really diving into audiobooks, how you create them and all the things so let's get right to it. Welcome to the profit podcast where we teach entrepreneurs how to start launch and market their podcast. I'm your host, Krystal, Proffitt, and I'm so excited that you're here. Thanks for hanging out with me today. Because if you've been trying to figure out the world of podcasting, think of this show as the time saving shortcut you've been looking for. So let's get right to it, shall we?
So like I said, in the beginning, today, we are talking about all things just using your voice and actually really taking advantage of the stories that you have to share with other people, whether that is through your podcast, or potential future projects that you would like to use your voice in a really big way. So I wanted to tell you a little bit about today's guests before we dove into our incredible interview that we had. So for more than 32 years, David Wolf has been the creative director, music composer and or producer of content for radio, TV, film, podcasts, audiobooks, and multimedia. He created and hosted the small biz America podcast from 2005 to 2018. David created the auto vieta. David created the automated studio to apply his experience and the talents and skills of his virtual creative team to help companies, publishers, entrepreneurs, influencers and thought leaders grow their brands in businesses through podcasting audiobooks, video, and internet radio. So of course, you're probably thinking, oh, wow, Krystal, he sounds like he's right up your alley with all the things podcasting and audio creation. And you would be right we had a fantastic conversation. So here's my interview with David.
All right. Profit podcast listeners. I am so excited to have someone who is equally as passionate about podcasting and all things audio today. This is David Wolfe. So welcome to the show, David.
Hey, Krystal, great to be with you. Thanks for having me.
Yeah, this is so much fun. So David, tell me a bit about you have been in so many different facets of the production industry and creating things. So tell us a little bit about your journey and how you have landed with audio production in other ways.
Oh, thank you for the question. This is the broadest question and the way we will have to talk about itself as well. So it all started, when I was about 11. I was a drummer in Chicago, where I was born and one thing led to another and suddenly the drums couldn't contain me. So I learned how to write music and write songs and score film. And I learned the jingle business from one of the famous guys in the formative days when the state's me a little bit. But this is a guy, he was older than me. But he was live during the period, the transition in advertising, from radio commercials to television commercials. So it was pretty one of the three big jingle houses, as they used to call them in Chicago dick marks was this name. fact, I had a dream about him last night that so we won't go there. But anyway, so he was my mentor in the business. And I learned the business got married in 85, moved to, to Dallas, Texas, we were talking offline about Texas and Dallas, and started my own production company called cry wolf music. And the whole model there is I'm creating musical things, working with singers and musicians in recording studios to solve a marketing problem for an advertiser or a filmmaker. That's really the essence of what I was doing. So it wasn't about me like doing my own album debut, or being a rock star or the artist, it was always a supportive role, working with filmmakers, and working with perhaps radio scripts, where the music is a supportive part of the entire communication that the advertisers trying to develop. And we worked on things like Doritos, and Southwest Airlines and McDonald's and a bunch of big names that you would know. And then the smaller names that you don't know so much. But it was a lot of fun. And we ran that for about 20 years, we had digital recording studios. And that really was the fuel to lead me into what we now do with the creation of out of Eden studios.
That's awesome. That's awesome. And I'm sitting here, imagining how much things have changed since you first started since you are like, you know, you and your mentor. And I mean, so what has been the biggest shift in the last, let's just say the last year in your production studios, like what's been the biggest change that you've seen emerge in the market and everything that you've been doing?
Well, the big shift may not have been within the year, that's a shorter length, and I can even there may be an answer to that question. I'll get back to you on that. The look when I started in the business many years ago, and I don't mind me morphing your question a little bit. I mean, there was no such thing as MIDI MIDI is the musical digital interface that musicians use. When you have a keyboard, you plug it in, and it plays a bunch of library sounds right. So a lot of people have seen this because it's pretty prevalent in all pop music, there was no MIDI, then it was just coming in then synchronization of film was just coming in. So I have seen now at age 60 or so I've seen a lot of changes now within the shorter span of time that you're pointing to. Of course, as we're sitting here together in August of 2020, we were sitting in the middle of COVID. So I created ot avita, about two years ago, you know, hard booted it to be a virtual company. So I think one of the things about all of this, and even as a podcaster, you really you know, this is that so much of the creation of content and the distribution of content is not, there's no physicality to it. We're basically moving information, we're moving stuff we're recording, we're producing in private studios, and then we're moving into distributing them through digital channels, all digital channels. And as you know, we're involved with audiobooks and podcasts. And both of those products that we deliver have nothing to do with anything physical. So maybe that's longer than a year. Shorter, short, shorter, but even just over the last five years, the trend in terms of the consumption, consumption of audio has been huge. It's like a hockey stick. I mean, the audio book market alone is growing at like 28% year over year for the last five years. So you can imagine what the inside of this graph that's going crazy. And podcasts are very similar looking because people have a perceived scarcity of time. They don't want to feel a have set time to sit and read or they just want to listen to podcasts while they're walking their dog biking and all the reasons you know as a podcaster many of our listeners are right now riding their bike walking their dog. So you know, as we're talking to you, we know oh by the way, use that bag when you pick up but
you live in with us neighborhoods where people get upset about walking the dog and not watch where watch where you step,
I try to use the shoes that I don't care so much about when I'm walking around on the green, sometimes you want to go to the grass, it's very hot here, just like in Texas. So you know, we do that. So anyway, so it really it's just, it's just exploding. And of course, our business is feeling it. There's a lot of demand. COVID is sort of amplified that like a lot of businesses. So we find ourselves in a world where there's like this pent up pressure to I gotta do my podcast, I really want I've got this book that I released an ebook and print. I everybody's asking me for audio because they all want audio. So those conversations are happening more and more live this year span that you were asking about. So I would say that's the biggest change?
Well, it's so interesting to because I'm sitting here imagining, you know, in part of your career, you were very dependent on being in a physical space with other people. And now that you've shifted to a virtual business and all the things that you're doing online, is there anything that you miss about having that face to face interaction with the other people that you're working with? Or do you truly enjoy the virtual world of being able to run a business that way?
For me, maybe surprisingly, the answer is either, and I really loved being in the studio, producing musicians and singers and, and small orchestras or rock bands, or whatever was setting up the drums, doing the thing, having musicians come in, do the session, leave all that's having the client there. But I'm in a different business now, too. So in a way that was then and this is now for me, it's been a pivot, like personally, because it used to be all about me writing the music coming in with the charts, distribute the music, everybody plays the music I wrote, and I learned how to leave room. So they would have a lot of input into the creative process. And so that dance you do with musicians and singers really became a very enjoyable process. But I've pivoted I'm now in a business where we're producing really, it's voice content. I mean, there's sometimes there's music and sound design involved, but most of it is vocal vocal in nature. It's not. And then importantly, it's not me writing it and conceiving it for the client. It's, I'm helping our clients develop what I now call and you know, this is the voice brand, so that they can do the things they can do, and desire to do with their content, whether it be grow a business, positioning themselves, with authority online, learn how to read better, you know, whatever it is that they're in this for ROI, were a supporting role in their strategy to get all of that to market.
Well, I love this concept, because I've, you know, I've been in podcasting. And I've been doing this for a while, like, I am just obsessed with podcasting guy, and my people are like, do you understand how geeky you are? And I'm like, Yes, thank you. Thank you for admiring that about me, I appreciate it. But I had never really heard of the concept of voice brand, before we kind of started going back and forth. So can you elaborate more on what that is? If somebody's listening, and they're just in the planning stages of their podcast? And they're like, I don't have a voice brand. I have an idea. But can you elaborate more on what that actually is?
Sure. And like, it's just so sort of connect those dots. So the framework of voice or the term voice brand, which sounds like a little brand in and of itself, which I love came out of the conversations I would have with authors actually, for audiobooks, they would call me and say, Well, you know, I got this twig in my voice, and I'm not really a voice actor, and I'm not well, what's your back end business, I would ask, and they would say, Well, I'm a consultant, I'm a speaker, I'm a keynote, and I'm well, okay, so the way you connect to your audience is with your voice, you are the voice of your brand. So I shortened it to voice brand, because this is the connectivity. And you and I both know this because we're experienced podcasters. But for those listening that may not intuitively know this, it's one microphone to one voice at a time. keynote speakers work the whole room, they get the energy, all this stuff. But here, it's a very focused kind of energy that we that we capture, record and distribute. So that focus them connecting with that intimacy of radio, the intimacy of the microphone to their ear, is what I call voice brand. And I use that term so that people recognize that it doesn't matter if you're not a professional voiceover. This is how you connect to market. And this is what builds your recognition, not only as an expert in what you know about, but also just the sound of your voice. They get used to it, it becomes familiar. And that builds this foundation of that familiarity builds this foundation of this voice branding. It's the way you're getting out there. Look, if you were in the visual arts, it would be visual branding, or eye branding, or I don't know what it would be but, but in here, it's really all about the voice.
So what I'm hearing you say is show up as your authentic self, and that is your brand, right? Like I mean...
Yes, be yourself.
Yeah, I mean, I think that a lot of people have this perception of you know, you have to show up in a certain way or I have people tell me all the time, like I'm gonna sound stupid because I have this really thick accent. I mean, come on, guys like this tech. accent, if I can do this, like you can do this too. Oh, total,
You're a great example of this. And you don't have a really, really deep drill. But I can tell you from Texas, there are, look, it's a part of you. And it's a part of whoever calls me and says, I, I really think I should be the one to tell my story. This is a, it's a legacy story, it's a memoir, should I be one to one reading it? Or should we cast someone else to do it? So Krystal, most of our business is recording authors reading their own on the audiobook side of our business, but we do have a casting team. And sometimes, and usually, it's with fiction. And the difference with fiction is it's not about so the voice brand speaks to the idea that you're doing content marketing, you're getting your voice out, to help build a back end business strategy, and to kind of build a 360 ecosystem of your personal brand, right? But in fiction, the book and the audiobook is the product itself. So you want a good competent actor, that can jump into character that can do the different dialects that can handle moving from a narrator to a male voice, and then a female voice, you know, the way you would do it as a reader, that takes a different skill set than just being yourself as your consultant, keynote, whatever, whoever, however you connect to your audience, and, and so there, it's, so that's, so in terms of people's comfort level with being themselves, the more you do it, it's like a muscle that you exercise, you're going to get comfortable with it, you're going to get better at it. And it's you.
Yeah, and I love that you said and as a consumer of a lot of audiobooks, I get really disappointed when I go to check out and I see Oh, it wasn't the author, like the author didn't read their book, like, I'm not as excited to read it, like I'm thinking of, I've listened to so many of Bernie brown books, and Elizabeth Gilbert and I listen to them, and they do such a fantastic job. And that's not what their profession is. That's they're not professional voiceover actors. But I hear the inflections of their voice, and I can hear the passion behind it. And it just makes me want to consume it that much faster and like get to the end as quickly as possible. Because it's so good. It's so good. So I do want to switch to that real fast, because we talked about, we've had so many people who are professional podcasters or people that really know podcasting in and out, but I have never spoke to someone who knows, audiobooks in and out. So tell me, how did you kind of get it? Like what was the segue? Like, whenever someone helped me with audio books,
this goes a while back. So about 15 years ago, I think it was a little bit of an aha. I wanted to leverage my skill set in production and recognize that there were publishers and authors that I'm what we used to call books on tape, there was an
opportunity that with my mom, we really audio books, we say books on tape.
Yeah, exactly. Tape has become like this. What is it a euphemism? euphemism puts the word when she's like Kleenex now becomes the I don't know, there's some fancy word. We don't know what it is. That's our voice brand. Okay, we don't know. But meanwhile, no, it was I knew there was an opportunity to very simply to do production for written word and turn it into audio so that authors could become have a digital version or a tape version of their. So years ago, I started doing a few of them at a time little bit this net. And I started develop a relationship and a couple of different relationships with what I'll call authors, services companies, where they'll sell ghost writers or editors, or you know, they'll provide services for authors that want to develop their content, but they really can't sit, sit and write. So they there are these companies out there that can help people write books. And so I began to talk to them about what what if you could add a whole new revenue stream to your business model by offering audio as a part of your doing the ebook for them. You're doing the printed book, you're doing the hardback and the paperback, whatever, maybe you're a publisher, and you're actually distributing it as the publisher. But what if you could add audio to that? So there's so what developed was sort of a couple tiers of our business, we deal directly with authors and they come direct to us, we work with them just through word of mouth. Or sometimes we have podcast clients, because we have a whole sort of division that we have about 30 shows in production. So we we have podcasters, that want to do audiobooks, because they're comfortable with the mic, and they wrote a book, and it's part of their platform. So sometimes it's a crossover situation. And, and so, or we have publishers that we deal with, where they're, it's like a one to many business model for us b2b where we're either white labeling or services. So we essentially become their audio production department for their publishing, division. And that's a model we really, really like, because it's b2b, it's very efficient, and they're dealing with a lot of authors. So for us, it's a good business model. And we really help them find new revenue that they may not have found because they don't know how to do audio. And this is something we really know how to do. I've got about a dozen audio engineers in my network that have people but six close to me, podcast team, audio book editors, and Then producers that work with the authors to get them comfortable that sort of round back around to your, your interest in the audiobook side. And I'll talk to you through the process if you're interested in we have time. But basically, we have producers that work with our authors, helping them get the best performance they're capable of, that's our job is to pull their voice brand out and deliver a product that they can be proud of, but it's really them. It may not be perfect, it's not, you know, it's not the voice of God, whatever, but it's them doing what they do. And you can feel their emotion. A lot of our books have been very emotional. Some of them are business books, and that's a different animal. But but some of them have been like the arc of a divorce the process of going through a horrific divorce, or a woman who wrote a book about her autistic severely autistic son, and how she managed through the birth all the way to now he's 20 years old. I mean, this is emotional content, then reading it as any This is pointing to what you were saying. It's like, if it's not them telling their own stories, just not going to have the the thing the heart.
Yeah, for sure. And I'm imagining there's a few of students, my community and members of just people in my podcast platform that I have seen talk about these amazingly, majorly emotional, like, what you were talking about topics on their podcast. And I know that a few of them are listening right now. And they have a book inside of them. So if they wanted to do that, like they're like, Okay, I'm gonna get my podcast off the ground. And I think that creating a book, writing it and doing all the things could eventually lead me to an audio book, what does that process look like? Because I, I'm curious to know from myself as well, but I really
want will talk to you, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pretend like yeah, okay, you just read Krystal. Okay, Krystal, I'm going to talk you through the situation. Um, so So here's how the process looks. And then at the end, I'll ask you for your manuscript, and then you'll understand why by that point, so. So basically, we have a remote recording system and and recording, we use the very platform that you and I are using to record this show. It's called squad cast, the author, our client doesn't have to buy it, we were controlling the recording process. So we send once we've decided all of the scheduling, we meet online like this, and we begin recording your audio book, you are working from a PDF copy of your manuscript, and we have a PDF that matches it. And we're marking it on our iPad for our audio editors. So in a series of 90 minute sessions, and that's about as much as anybody can handle to keep the energy at the same level. You have your water nearby, you're well hydrated, we're coaching you, it's a real live producer with you a set of ears to make sure you're getting the best of the best. Oh, I think you got a better one, please go back to the beginning of the paragraph, you stumbled over this word, let's get another one there. And they're marking the script as you go. And it's just this process of takes retakes outtakes, different authors we work with have different abilities, some can read for long chunks without tripping over a sentence. And others are literally restarting every third sentence. And I've dealt with both of them personally. And we get them through it. And sometimes people go into a so sort of this spiral of beating themselves up because they keep tripping. Some people have a tendency to accelerate when they read, or other sort of habitual things that maybe were formed when you were asked to go to the front of the room in third grade and read, you know, the chapter seven. So some people change their the way they modulate their voice, when they ring, it's when they read their like sing song, and it's not really them connecting. So our producers are trained and sensitized to make by virtue of someone's there, just read it to me, don't read, don't get in your head and trying to read it perfectly just, you know, it's, it's, it's getting comfortable with that environment. So, so we go through these, these 90 minute sessions. And then while we're doing that, we're uploading the audio to the cloud. we're assigning it to an editor, they're editing the book as we go, when everything's clean and seamless, and we've got it all there'll be a little punch list, usually, maybe it's a dozen lines, or a fewer than that, depending on the length of the book overall. Well, you know, chapter three, it's 44 minutes and 37 seconds, read this line, and then you just punch through a few lines that we needed to get again, just because they weren't great performances. Maybe you bumped the microphone, we didn't catch it. Maybe the leaf blower was out the window and we didn't catch that that's not likely, but you know, something happened during the session. And and so we go through the punch list and we finish it up, we send you a link How is it everything good spot check and listen to the whole thing, whatever we'll do around revisions if we need to find it's locked. Now we do the audio mastering which means we get there's a lot of like really boring technical specs for the the back end, the ACE AC x is the sort of the industry standard for audio book, product delivery. So we have to say it's things like audio stuff like peak levels and average levels and noise floors and certain amount of room tone in front of back of every file and they have to be mp3 and have to be mine on the butt 44.1 all that stuff that we know how to do so We get it all done, and it's ready to go. Our pricing model is driven by word count, which is somewhat, I think unusual. So we don't charge by the hour. If you have to rerecord chapter three, we're cool with that, we'll do it, it's a project rate. So we charge a certain number of cents per word to, to record with a producer, edit, post, produce and do your cover and help you get it up online for sale on Audible, Amazon and iTunes. And if you want to expand your distribution, we have a model for that, which can include selling it from your website. So we have some vendors, that vendor that we use for that stuff, but, but there are about 35, other sort of out detail distributors that are not Amazon, audible and iTunes. And if you want to do non exclusive with them, you can do add all of those places and be more horizontally, sort of in the market. So that's the short version. Sorry, that was that was a fire hose, wasn't it?
No, that was so incredible, because, um, so many of the things that you're talking about, I have done research because I recently wrote a book, and I'm gonna publish it soon. And I'm, I've been kind of doing my own research. So I didn't know what the ACA was, I'm like, Oh, I saw that checklist that you have to do before you submit audible. I didn't know what any of it meant. But I was like, I've seen that there's a checklist. So I do know what you're talking about. But it's really exciting. Because at the end of the day, I mean, I think about all of the people that are listening to the show, they are producing content right now, that could be gearing them up to create an audio book in the future, or could give them kind of the foundation of what an actual book would look like in the future, because they're producing this content. And if they're creating it for a specific market, a specific purpose, then they can actually repurpose that content and create an audio book, a physical book and ebook all the platforms that you already mentioned. And that really excites me, because I think that at the end of the day, we both of us here and the people listening are creating content that matters. And I don't know, there's just something special about that, like, knowing that you're creating something that could have a legacy and live further than, oh, I just published a podcast episode. But you know, it's gone now. And then, you know, I'm just gonna move on to the next thing like you could actually Yeah,
like the blog fade or pod fade kind of thing. It's slightly different use of that. But what happens with with iterative releases of content is that they kind of go off the horizon is the calendar moves forward. And how do you keep it fresh, this is a once and done kind of model for us and for and for the author. And so it's a product, then you sell it, it's one of and you're giving your consumers a choice. They've got print, they've got ebook, they've got audio and by the way, interesting data, the audio books are outselling and outstripping the growth of the E book market. You may have seen that I see you nodding. So it's, it's been fascinating to see and curious in a way why Kindle is not growing as fast as audio, but I think maybe it's just catching up. Yeah, maybe that's why the growth is higher.
Well, I know for me personally, I prefer audiobooks. If it's not audiobook, I like to I like to read a hard book like an actual paperback book or an audiobook. I'm not a fan of the E readers I used to for a while, but I just whenever I like to unplug and read an actual book. I don't like any devices around me whatsoever.
No, I hear you use like the smell of the pages, the feeling of the texture of the paper. It's all that stuff. Oh, I spilled coffee on it. Now. It's my it's like it's like what we used to say about vinyl. Those scratches are mine. You know, it's a purse. It's your book. It's physical. It's old school. It's beautiful.
Yes. Oh my gosh, well, I love this whole conversation because like I said, we've never had someone talk about audiobooks on the podcast. And this was so refreshing because it's something I am like living in real time I've been looking for how am I going to produce my audio book? So we're gonna be chatting after this for sure, David, for some rapid fire questions.
Oh, sure. I'll do whatever, whatever the requirements are to be on this podcast.
Yes, yes. So I promise there's nothing painful going on here. But we have some that are always so much fun. Because I know our listeners are really curious, especially with someone who is a podcaster yourself. So what advice would you give to someone who is a brand new podcaster
keep your intros really short and snappy and make your listener promise in them. Do not read a laundry list of the bio of your guest, even though you might feel obligated on some level to do that. deliver to your listeners a promise about why they should care and stay with you.
Oh, I love it a good hook. We all need a good hook. I love it. Okay, my next question is, who would be your dream podcast guest? Okay, and then what would be your dream podcast to be on?
Oh, gosh. I have full disclosure. I'm not currently podcasting at the moment. Although I've done about 300 episodes of a show I used to do called Small Biz America, so I'm more involved with helping others podcasts now. So these are a little challenging for me? Would I want as a guest? Krystal Proffitt?
That's an easy one done.
Sorry. Okay, I can say we're gonna have to throw the couple of these away just because I'm not I'm not active active like you. Maybe some of your guests are. And the other side of that question was, whose podcast would I want to be on? Oh, Krystal Proffitt? Okay, we got through that easily.
Okay, my last question is, Do you consider yourself a perfectionist?
No, I'm definitely not a perfectionist. That's a that was a cool question. Actually, I think about this stuff a lot. Um, no, I believe that there's humanity and flaw. And I and I don't tend when I was a music guy, I would, I didn't like write 14,000 versions, and then obsess on what notes should be wearing, what bars should be wearing, what rhythm should you know, I just I would splash it out, and I tweak it. And I'm like, yeah, there. There it is, guys. That's my take. So I'm not a perfectionist.
Okay. Awesome. Yeah. And that's always so good to know. Because I love to hear. I'll listen to someone talk, you know, through a whole interview. And I can kind of have this question figured out by the end, but I want to hear exactly what they have to say. And I always consider I'm a recovering perfectionist. That's really cool.
I wouldn't have known I know you're brilliant host and sorry, I bailed on those first. The second two questions. Sorry, folks. I you know,
that's perfectly fine. David, this has been so amazing. And if somebody's listening right now, and they're like, I want to talk to him about podcast production and your studio and audiobooks and all the things. Where would they go to find more information about you and your company?
Oh, I love it. Thank you for that. It's on avita.com is the website. We're automated studios, but it's on avita.com spelled au di vi TA. So just think Adi vitta. The sound of life.
Howdy. DITA. I love that. Yeah. And we're gonna have all the things all the ways that you can connect with David in the show notes. But thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Great to be with you. Thanks.
So what did you think? Oh, it was so good. I love talking to people who are experts in things that for one I had no idea about audiobooks, how to even get started or even what to think about. Before I had this initial conversation with David and his team and their services that they offer are so incredible, I would highly recommend you go check them out. I'm gonna have all their information in the show notes of this episode. KrystalProffitt.com/Episode192 to learn more about David and his company and all the incredible things that they've done. I love the business model that they've created and being able to help people virtually write, especially in the year 2020. When things have just been totally turned upside down. His business isn't reliant on people going into a physical studio to record whether it's their audio book, their creative designs that they're working on, or other types of podcasts. I love this so much that we can do so many things that are going to impact so many people from the comfort of our homes. So go check them out, go to the show notes, KrystalProffitt.com/episode192. And that's all I have for you today. So if this is your first time tuning in, I'm going to encourage you to subscribe wherever you're listening to this podcast and remember, keep it up. We all have to start somewhere