Podcast Websites and Funnels with Susan Leonardson

in my business. And the fact that this episode, the interview today landed right after that one was a beautiful coincidence, because today, we're talking all about the strategy behind funnels, and how to set up some really cool stuff on the back end. And it's not super complicated. And I know you're like, hallelujah, tell me more. So let's get right to it. Welcome to the profit Podcast, where we teach entrepreneurs how to start launch and market their

podcast. I'm your host, Krystal, Proffitt, and I'm so excited that you're here. Thanks for hanging out with me today. Because if you've been trying to figure out the world of podcasting, think of this show as the time saving shortcut you've been looking for. So let's get right to it, shall we?

under. I totally get it. She's an anti hustler and an advocate for taking imperfect action and ferrying out along the way. So I was lucky enough to be on Susan's podcast earlier this year. And I'm gonna link to that in the show notes. So KrystalProffitt.com/Episode206. You can find my conversation that I had with Susan on her podcast, but this was just such a fun and kind of eye opening conversation that I wish I would have heard whenever I was first

starting. Because I think that we tend to overcomplicate things. I mean, I guess not everyone does. I know I do. So I'm sitting here like if you're anything like me, maybe you overcomplicate a few pieces of the puzzle when it comes to creating your podcast. And I love how Susan was able to simplify so many things whenever it comes to strategy and building funnels and really just laying the groundwork, the foundation for creating an

online business. So here is my conversation with Susan Leonardson. All right, Proffitt Podcast listeners, I'm so excited to introduce you to my new friend, Susan. So welcome to the show, Susan.

That's where I want to start, like, tell us a little bit about how you got into your online business and how you started your podcast. How did you know it was time? Like, all all the things about your journey?

was kind of at a crossroads. I was like, Okay, I need to keep going with this or I do something else and like actually create a business that's my own because I think that's what I was missing was I want something that's my own. I don't want to be selling other people's stuff. And so I just happened to have a friend reached out that needed some kind of like VA type work done, like cleaning out Her email, and like getting her contacts in order that kind of

stuff. I'm like, Sure, I'll do that for you for like 15 bucks an hour or something is what I charged her. And like, a week later, I guess Facebook knew that I was doing that now, because all of a sudden, I saw an ad for, hey, start your own freelance business and become a VA. And so I actually jumped in on that program, January 120 19, and totally switched to becoming

a freelancer. Jump to where through that program, I connected with another online entrepreneur, who has a course on creating and designing sales funnels. And since I was a teenager, I had this love of websites and like playing on blogs, and like going and redesigning, like, I had a blog just so I could go in and design it and then redesign it. I didn't actually blog, just I wanted to create logos and stuff. Um, and so I jumped into the, the moment that I thought I was like, Okay, this is for me,

this is what I want to do. I'm going in, and I'm going to learn how to turn this into a business. So I did that. And that took me to where I'm at today in having a sales funnel agency, where I help other entrepreneurs learn how to implement funnels into their businesses, so they can have a

profitable online business. And podcasting was in there, kind of just, you know, when you're going through this journey of learning how to have a business online, you kind of realize, like you can't, you need to be publishing content in some way. And obviously, from me having a blog and not actually writing anything on it ever. I'm not a typer I'm not a I don't like to write out stories and content. At the time, I didn't really want to be doing video. And so the opportunity presented itself

to launch a podcast. And I was like, Okay, well, I guess if I don't want to write and I don't want to be on video, the next best thing is to just be behind the scenes and just talk because I like to talk I just didn't know wasn't competent in my video skills at the time. And so that's kind of how that fit in. I honestly didn't know what the podcast was going to be used for other than I knew I needed a

publishing platform. And I knew I had a business now. So like, okay, let's move forward and figure out how to make them work together. So that's kind of my quick journey. And now that we're here, so I actually launched my podcast in July of 2019. It was July 6, or something like that. I don't remember the exact date when we when I launched. So I've been doing it for over a year now.

And that was me deciding like, okay, I want to be talking to people that are using their businesses to make an impact a bigger, grander mission, not just a, you know, make, I need to earn money, I need to have an income, and I need to sell these things. It's more of like, Okay, I have a business. But the reason I have my business is to, you know, help XYZ like the

bigger picture. So that's really where I started in that it didn't really connect with my funnel building business at the time, other than I learned that the people that I could be interviewing the people that have these businesses that are already making an impact, were actually potential clients. So that's my main way that I used

my my business. So while on my podcast, so while my podcast really has nothing to do with sales funnels at all, either, although I occasionally talk about them, and I occasionally have guests on that we talk about those things. Um, it's really kind of like a general online business podcast, but I am able to use it to connect with people that are needing my services. So that's kind of how I use it with my business, even though it really has nothing to

do with my business. It's more of a marketing tool than a information tool to my clients.

buy that one yet. Like, let me get into this other program first and learn some business skills for freelancing. But then it was just always there in my head. I'm like, if I'm gonna be building a business, and I already know that that's what I want to do, like, What's stopping me? Why can't I just go and start learning that skill right now. And so it was like two weeks later. So two weeks into that I was like, you know,

I'm just going all in. And just did and a month after, after joining that other program and learning that skill and, and starting to, like, get some traction with it was like a month, month or six weeks, I would say about six weeks where I had already had a couple of clients, I had already earned the amount of money back from both of those courses combined. I was like, Okay, well, this is

what I'm doing. And then of course, it was July when I was like, Okay, let's let's, uh, well, it was end of April, when I was like, I need to watch podcasts. And then it was July when I actually did launch the podcast. So like things happen really, really quickly. And I'm glad you asked that question because I talked about this too.

Sometimes on one of my episodes on my podcast I talk about like, if you just start taking action, and even if you're not even sure like where you're going with it if you just start taking the action and then being willing to pivot as you're going. So much can happen is so much can change in such a short amount of time. Like that was that was not that long of a time period. And as an even that long ago, and now I have you know, a full on agency. So,

the big scheme of things. But I know that this feels right, whether it's a sales course, or it's something on like starting a podcast, you're like, I just, I know I need to do it. I've no idea what I need to talk about. But I'll figure it out whenever it goes along. And when it so now I want to go back to your podcast topic, because I think

this is so smart. And I really haven't heard of a lot of people that do this, of course, I teach a lot of entrepreneurs how to use their podcast as the marketing arm of their business, you know, reach potential clients, pull them in, you know, figure out ways that you can help them or show them how you

can work together. But I love that you are reaching out to your potential clients and you're like, let's come like just come talk about the podcast or you know, talk about what your business does on the show. So was that something that just kind of unraveled organically? Or did you have some intentionality behind that?

much sense. Because then I, you know, when you're starting a new business, you really don't have any credibility, you don't have any authority. And you're just kind of like spinning your wheels, trying to get something going trying to get anything to happen. It's really sometimes when you have like a service based business or coaching business or something along those lines, it's hard to get your clients when you are new.

So the podcast was a great, great way to almost instantaneously create that authority. Like I did my launch, I launched a episodes, I had interviewed eight people before publishing all of them all on the same day. And I got to use that as leverage. Like, even though I think only two of the eight people that I interviewed for that actually knew who I was when I asked them to be on Show.

The other ones either I got connected with through other people or I just straight out straight reached out to them. It's like, Hey, I'm launching a new podcast and I want you to be part of my lunch and there's going to be a huge launch. So there's going to be likely a lot of people listening to your episode, like who's gonna turn that down, right? Um, you know, I told them like, hey, my goal is to get into the top 200 100 of biz of the business category.

And so like it's kind of a Not very many people are gonna say no to even if they have no idea who you are, and it's a brand new podcast, like, people are willing to be the first on something. And I think also like keeping in mind, when you go and listen to a new podcast, oftentimes you scroll all the way down to the first episodes, and you start at the bottom, you know, once you know what the podcast you want to be diving into you go and you listen from the beginning. What other

platforms can you do? Do you do that, and you don't do that on YouTube, you don't do that on Facebook, you don't go to the very first things they ever posted. And so when people are, you know, the first few episodes of your podcast, they know that it's going to get listened to a lot, because everyone goes to the, to the editor to the beginning and listens to them. So that's like just a lot of a lot of leverage to be able to

get that going. And that just turned into them, referring me to more people and one of those. So two of those that I interviewed were actually the freelancing course creator coach, she was one of my interviews, and then the sales funnel coach, she was my one of my other interviews. So I was able to, like reach out to them, because they kind of knew my name, I had bought their things.

And so they were willing to, but then one of them, I got connected to through through one of the coaches, and she became one of my clients and is still one of my clients today. So like, it definitely works. But so now it's just kind of an icebreaker. It's like, Hey, I know that you're that that person is probably a really good fit for my business. How do I start that relationship with them? How do I start the conversation with them just to see like who they are, kind of

get them to know who I am. And a podcast is the perfect option for that. Because there's not any pressure, you're not having a sales conversation with them. You're literally just talking to them and, and getting to know them. And when you're interviewing someone, they often are opening up to you about certain things if you're asking them the right questions. And so just by them being a little bit vulnerable on the podcast, makes them feel like there's a

relationship there. Like even though you're barely talking, like right now Krystal is barely talking about doing all the talking. But still, I on this side, I'm gonna feel like hey, like Krystal and I are like friends now. Like, she can come and ask me for things and I'm gonna be like, cool, I've talked to Krystal a lot, I'm gonna, you know, do whatever I can to help her. So it's like that kind of relationship that you're building. And then later on that could turn into a business relationship.

you were talking about? Like, if you reach out to these people, of course, they're gonna say yes, because they're like, Oh, it's free publicity, like, because if you're talking to an audience, maybe their people aren't in your audience yet. And so it's like, they have this opportunity to list build or to get in front of people that they would have never had an opportunity to get in front of.

So that's another perk to starting a podcast and getting it out there and getting these people that you're like, Hey, come on, come on my show. Like let's talk about all the fun things. So I totally agree with that. But I want to switch gears for a second because we've been talking about funnels and sales funnels. And I know that there are some people listening that are just like, Hold on, wait a minute, What are y'all talking

about? So I told Susan, before we started, like her, and I both understand all these things at a very high level. And we could geek out on all the techie stuff and all the fancy things. But I told her, I really want to take it, like stripped everything down to the basics. So tell me what your definition is of a funnel?

into the more stuff. So I picture that and think of the things that you're putting into your funnel are your people, your traffic, the people that you're trying to get to whatever it is you're trying to get to, it could be anything, it could be something you're selling, it could be something you're not selling. And in a funnel, there's imagine like there's a series of steps, right, there's, you know, there's a wide area of the funnel all the way down to a really narrow part of the

funnel. So when we translate that over to what we're talking about with sales funnels and online, we're so what we're actually talking about is like a version of a website, and I'll break down what the difference is between a funnel and a website in just a minute. it. But the purpose of a funnel is to get your people from one end to the other end, just like with the funnel that you're putting in a jar, from the top to the bottom one end to the other end. And in the beginning, you're

gonna have a lot of people. And then at the end of your funnel, you're probably not going to have as many people taking that action. So let's, let's break that down a little bit. Um, let me back up, let's do funnel versus website. So because everyone knows what a website is, we all land on websites all the time. A website, as we know is it usually has a lot of buttons on it, it has a navigation bar at the top where there's many links to click on.

Usually, there's, you know, if the person has a blog, it links to their blog, if they have a podcast is linking to their podcast if they have a store it's linking to. So it's linking to all these different things. Kind of like a hub for all of their stuff, right? a funnel is different in that each page only has one action for someone to take really two actions, they can either take the action that they're telling them, like click the button, or they can leave,

that's the other alternative. So if you've ever landed on someone's page, where it's literally just like an opt in, like you're trying to get like a free download or something, a free resource, and you land on the page, and it's like, okay, and put your name and put your email, click this button, and

we'll send it to you. There's no other options, there's no links to any other things on those pages, that's part of a funnel, it may not be the beginning, it may be somewhere in the middle, because actually a funnel can start even on social media. Basically, it's the journey that you're taking people through. So so so that's one example of a funnel is like an opt in. When we're talking about making sales through a funnel, we would talk about, you'd still be offering

like one thing. So if let's say that you have a course. But you also have like an E book that you created. And you also have

the free download. You wouldn't be offering all of those things on one page, you would figure out what's the most logical sense for my customer to receive these things or be offered these things, to get them where I'm trying to get them to, which might be your course, or it might be your coaching program, you're not going to offer typically, you're not going to just offer someone that has no idea who you are your coaching program that costs $2,000, you're going to start with

something a little bit smaller, to get them to like know you a little bit more and know the value that you're giving. So usually you would start with something that's free or low cost. And this is just one method of a sales funnel, there's actually plenty of ways to sell the high things first. But to keep things simplified, just imagine you're starting off like giving them the free thing. And then they they input their

email address. And the next page is like thank you go check your inbox for the free thing that that I'm going to give you. But you don't just end it there. On that page, you can offer them the next thing, maybe you have like a $7 ebook or something. So maybe give them a PDF for the free thing and then like a $7 ebook for the next thing, and you can offer it to them right away. So I actually have a metaphor that I stole from from my sales funnel coach for explaining a little bit better

what a funnel is. So I want you to imagine going into a grocery store. And we're going into this grocery store, our only goal is to go in and get what we need to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And when you go into the grocery store, they have way more than we need to make this peanut butter and jelly sandwich. But we so so what happens with this happens to me all the time, right? You go into a store, you get sidetracked, you're like, Oh, we need Oreos,

too. And oh, we need some milk, all those things that you don't really intend to buy. Or you're a little bit overwhelmed. You didn't make a list and you forgot what you went into the store to get. And so you leave with not the things that you wanted to actually get. And so a funnel would be like someone taking your hand in the store and saying, Hey, what are you needing today? Peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Okay, let me take you right to the bread because you we know that you

need bread. So here's the bread. Do you want to buy it or not buy it and you're like, Okay, I'll I know I need bread for my sandwich. So yes, I'm gonna buy it. They're like okay, now you need peanut butter. Do you want to buy the peanut butter? Yes, I need the peanut butter. So that would be like the next page right the next product that they're offering you like okay, well we need jelly too. Do you want to take this jelly? But

yes, I need the jelly too. And then the genius of a funnel because now we have everything that we need for the sandwich, right? But the genius of a funnel is that sometimes your customers don't know what the next thing is that they need. Sometimes you know what they need before it They do. And so you can convey that in your sales messaging, and help them understand like, okay, I just

solved this problem for you. But you don't even know yet, you're going to have this next problem that you're going to need salt also. So like back to our store analogy, we've got all the ingredients for our sandwich, but then that shopper helps you to realize like, oh, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, okay, well, I also like maybe I need a knife to go and make that. So do you need a knife to go and actually implement making

the sandwich. And then it's, the next thing could be like, you know what you're gonna need some napkins, you know, those are messy, you might need some napkins to clean up after. So you can kind of see like a funnel is like someone a personal shopper, like basically taking the your customer, your prospect or your lead, and guiding them through the sales process, taking them by the hand, only giving them the options that they need in that

moment. And once they have decided to take those options and move forward, presenting the next problems that they don't even know that they're going to have, but they are going to have and you are there to help solve those problems, too. So that's kind of in a nutshell. Hopefully, that was understandable. That's what a funnel is.

challenge. And I'm like, hold up, wait a minute, I know now already know that. Yeah, your biggest challenge is actually going to be content and understanding your listener and

who you're talking to. And like, so it's almost like this, like Trojan horse approach, you know, it's like, people assume, and maybe that's like, what is at the top of your funnel, whether it's your podcast, or your freebie or whatever it may be what you share on social media is like, this is your initial problem, what's what you can see on the surface. And then it's like the iceberg approach, you know, it's like, here's actually all the issues you're going to have on this journey. But let's

walk through this. So I love I'm such an analogy, metaphor person. So that that made sense to me. But um...

But so what they wanting is advice or like, tell me what equipment I need to have a really good podcast, that's not what they need. So you can have like, the free thing or something of like, get like my top three microphones to use for your podcast, or, you know, like you're creating a, you're creating the thing that they want. But then on the back end of that you're like, Okay, now I've told you what you're

wanting to find. But have you even thought about what content you're going to be putting on your podcast, like, buy this thing that I have, that's going to help you figure that out? So and kind of see how you Yeah, you present what they want, but then be there to, to provide for those needs that they don't even realize that they have.

now. And that's what I think is the beauty of having an online business and being able to come up with different offers over the course of your business and not just have one thing and you're like, Oh, I'm just this one stop shop. Like that's what targets for, right? That's a Walmart for that's what Amazon's for, like, we want you to create businesses that can take your people on a journey that helps them have that transformation that everybody's looking for. And I just I love that so much.

I love the journey metaphor as well. Yes. But so my my question would be, um, because I know we kind of talked about websites and what the difference is between a funnel page and a web and I love that so much because there's, I have landed on many funnels gone wrong. We'll call them that. Gone Wrong. Where you're right. Like there's, there's a whole navigation and I'm like, Oh well, I don't have to Do this. So I can just go over here and actually find what

I'm looking for. But for someone that's listening, and they're like, well, so do I have to have a full blown website to set up a funnel? Or can I just use because I always tell our listeners that they can go, if they go with buzzsprout as their hosting provider, they actually provide a website. So would they have to have something totally separate if they wanted to set up a funnel.

to direct people to. So I, I'm assuming that everyone that's got a podcast listening, you have some sort of call to action, something at the end of your episodes that you are leading and directing people to So actually, in this situation, your podcast is the very beginning of your funnel. Not just where you are bringing in the mass amount of people, you know, the larger part of your of your funnel, and some of them are going to take that action now with you if your action is

sending them to a website. For a lot of those people, that's where it's going to end because you're sent them to a website and you they aren't really sure what the next step is going to be, you know, where there's confusion, people aren't going to take action. And so if you're sending them to somewhere where there's multiple things for them to look at multiple things for them to do, oh, should I

download her freebie? Should I get on a call with her, should I go follow her on Facebook for a little while, before I decide what I'm going to do. Like, if you're offering too many different things, then most people are going to just take a look at it and leave unless you know, there's always those people that are like, you know, our fans, and they're just going to go and do all of the things.

But you'd have much better numbers, much higher success rate of getting people to do what you're wanting them to do. If instead, that call to action was like sending that and I'm sure if you've interviewed people on podcasts, and you know, most most people have like something free to give your audience or some sort of resource that's like, that's part of their funnel, it should be on a landing page where the only action that they're taking

is for that one thing. And if that means you're just getting their email address in exchange for that. So you can be building your audience building your list and community, that's a pretty good transaction for just going in. And and you know, doing an interview, or whatever, you know, whatever you you're you might take, or someone listening into your episode, and you have your call to action at the end. And, you know, listen turns into a new person in your community.

So, so to back up and answer your question, you don't have to have a website to be selling things to be building an email list. A website definitely has its place. And I even make them for people. And we treat them more as like I mentioned that word hub earlier, we treat them more like a central hub like, okay, now I have a lot of different offerings. And I have people coming to me at different

points of their journey. And so some people really, they just want to buy my coaching service without having to go get my freebie and then like work their way up to that like, you know, so I'm talking as if the client was saying this. So some people just want those, those websites to just list out all of the things that they offer, put your podcast on there, it's more of like a profile of your things. And so there's definitely a

place for that. But if you're actually trying to get people like new leads into your business and to take your offers, then the funnel is the way to go. Because, again, we want to take their hand, we want to offer them only what's relevant to them at that point in their journey. Does that answer your question?

need to make? And I feel like you Yeah, I think that's the first decision. I mean, am I incorrect in assuming that?

wanting that free thing. But let's say your call to action is you really just are trying to get on sales calls with people, maybe that's your main motivation, your main thing that you need to be doing right now, not necessarily building an email list, but getting on sales calls to sell your thing, your coaching your course, whatever it is. If that's the case, then instead of sending them to a free thing in exchange for an email address, you could so I have a funnel setup for mine.

And you guys can totally go check it out and see how it's laid out. It's pro funnel designs calm and it'll take you right to this is where I send people. So because that's what my goal is, I want to be getting on calls with people. So they land on it. And I'm still asking for their name and email address. But it's an exchange for training. And after that training, I am inviting them to book a call with me and I have a whole application. So so here's

I'll lay it out. So you understand the exact flow of the funnel. So they wherever I'm sending them from, it could be my podcasts, it could be social media posts, it could be an email, it can be anything that I'm sending them to this landing page and the may land on it. I teased them with a really, really cool headline that says, hey, you're going to learn this stuff on the next page, you just need to put your information in and then you get access to it

totally free. So then they put their information in, they land on the next page, they watch my training, it's super, it's like, I don't know, 12 minutes or something. It's pretty short. And in that training and giving them some pretty good value, but I'm not really teaching them how to do anything, I'm kind of just trying to help them understand the problems that they're facing, and that there's a way through their problems, and I

can help them with it. So that kind of Prime's people to be like, Okay, well, I want to have a conversation with with Susan, because she seems to understand what I'm going through right now let's see what she can do. So on that page, I invite them to click on another button that sends them to the next page, we're actually at my calendly embedded. So that's my Scheduler. And they can book the call right then in there, they just have to choose the date and

time. And then after they've booked that call, it actually redirects to another page. So you can see there's multiple lots of pages do here. But it's quick process. So then the next page that they have is an application. So I actually use type form, I love type form that's embedded right on the page, where I'm asking them a series of questions. So they're actually applying to have this call with me. They've already

booked it. But I have the power being the business owner and you know, the person that is deciding who am I going to talk to today, and who am I not going to talk to today, if I go and I look at these answers to the questions and I decide this person's really not a good fit. Or if they really didn't give me enough detail on their business for me to actually spend 45 minutes to an hour with them on a call, I have the power to cancel that call or ask them to

elaborate on some stuff. And so that that helps me protect my time, but also getting people on to calls with me where I can, they're already filtered, they're already kind of vetted, and I'm having their quality leads because I'm having them go through this process, someone that's just kind of out there, I'm like, I just kind of want to pick your brain, you know, we pick your brain type of people, pick your brain and, and use up some of your time and not really intend on buying your service or

product at all. Someone like that isn't going to go through all these hoops, and get on a call with you. Because during that whole process, you're funneling them, you're filtering them down. So that by time they get to that point where they're actually talking to you are actually buying your product, you know that they are actually like there for you, they need you. And they are like ready to

buy. That's so good. That's like another example long, elaborate example of what you can do with a funnel.

let's take the next step. Like you can just open up your calendar and be like, okay, cool, like we have five calls booked today like let's check these out. So that's really awesome. And I love the idea of just being able to take back control of your calendar like I'm all about that. So all the tools that we just talked about, I use calendly as well. I haven't really had a need to use type form but I am going to link

to that in the show notes. If anybody wants to look at calendly and type Form I, I've used type form several times actually and other people's fun a lot of talking about. But my last question for you, and then I'm actually going to give you some rapid fire questions. Okay, that's, that's a little fair warning. Okay, fair warning. But what is, what are some of the biggest challenges that some of your clients face? Like, right before they're getting ready to

go all in with you? Right? Like, they're just, okay, I'm on the fence. This sounds like a tsunami, a lot of fun, it's gonna be great for my business. But what usually comes after that, but what's holding them back?

in your business. You that's why there are people out there for you to hire to help you with those things. Because your expertise is what people pay you to do. Right? They don't pay you to make funnels, they don't pay you to do emails to customers, they aren't paying you to know how to, to run ads. So that's, it's okay that you don't know those things. Reach out to people that can help you implement those. And that's, that's, you know, that's why I'm

there for my clients. They're reaching out to me, because they know that they they need the system, they just don't know how to do it themselves, or they aren't even sure where to begin. And so that's really the big thing. And so before we even jump in to actually building their funnels for them, what I do is I actually go through a whole strategy call with them where we figure out okay, what is your what is like, Where are you stuck out in your business? What's going on with your

business right now? What are your goals you're trying to get to? And what's the best plan of action to move forward? So I try to help them the best that I can figure out that piece so that when we are moving forward, they're not like, Okay, well, I'm paying you to build a funnel that I'm not sure is gonna work. And, you know, while we can't ever guarantee anything's gonna work in life, at least we can move forward and confidence and we have an action plan in place.

And we know if it doesn't work, here's what we're going to do to change that. And we're going to keep working with it and fix it. So I think that's really the big thing is just helping to have that confidence in, in moving forward.

such a fun conversation. We could talk about funnels and all kinds of fun things for hours and hours. Yeah, I do want to get to our rapid fire questions, because these are always so much fun. So the first one that I have for you is what advice would you give to a brand new podcaster?

launch a podcast. And then I was told like, Okay, we got to go interview people, because that's the whole point of you having a podcast is to interview people and turn them into your clients. I was like, I've never interviewed anyone in my life. How am I going to, like sit there and have a conversation with? And like, What questions do I ask and, and, like, what if I'm stumbling over what I'm saying? Like all these things, right? Like, what if this happens, what if that happens?

I'm my, one of my very favorite lessons learned during this process is like, it's okay, if you don't know what you're doing. Because once you do it a few times, you're going to be an expert at it. Right. So I remember my very first interview that I did, I had, like all my questions written out. And I was doing like the same questions

for everybody. Like I was sending them the like a form like here's the questions I'm gonna ask you so that they were prepared and I knew that they were prepared to maybe Be ready to answer my question. And I was like, Okay, this doesn't seem like a podcast I would listen to. So I'm going to stop doing that. But the point was that I launched it, and I did them. And then once I got through the first few episodes, so this is actually before I even launched because I did eight before I

launch. So after I did the first few interviews, I didn't have questions anymore. Like, okay, well, I can just talk to these people. I don't need to I mean, I know you're using questions, which is, I think, a really, really great thing to do. And honestly, my interviews maybe a little bit better if I did have some questions. So when you take these little steps of like discomfort, your comfort zone, like grows, it grows. But I was terrified to have my first interview, because I didn't,

I've never done it before. Once I did a few of them. I was like, Okay, this is okay, I can do this and actually grew to really love doing it. And so my advice to answer your question in a really long winded way, is just if there's something that is scaring you from taking action, like, just figure out, like, what's the small step of action I could take towards what I'm trying to do. And just take that

action. So if I'm trying to launch a podcast, my small little action that I need to do is just have one interview, see how it goes. And then and then that was me getting and getting closer to that, like, honestly, I was really terrified of having an interview with someone and now I do them, like multiple times a week, no big deal. It's actually my favorite thing to do now. Um, so I hope that piece of advice is helpful.

action. I love it so much. Okay, so my next question, this is a two part question. Who is your dream podcast that you would love to be on? And what is ours? Who is someone who's a dream podcast guest that you would love to interview?

going to turn out. And so part of my journey was last December, I actually created a course and I put it in beta, I just had a beta version of my course, I just brought in a few people to try it. And turns out, I didn't like it. So I don't do it anymore. But I around this whole launch. And around this whole course that I created, I created a group called imperfect entrepreneurs. And my whole thing was about taking imperfect action. And so that's just kind

of like, how I live now. Just exactly what we've been talking about, like just take the action in perfectly, and go from there. And so that's, that's just kind of how I try to live all the time now is is don't be a perfectionist. Just take the action. And, and it's okay, if things aren't perfect. Because they can always if they need to be changed later than they can be. If not, if it's not a big deal, then it didn't need to be changed to begin with.

notes. But thank you so much for being on the show today.

eep it up. We all have to start omewhere.