¶ Streamlining Podcast Production
How do you make podcast editing easier ? It is a topic that is as old as podcasting itself , because I think as soon as podcasting started , there became like all of these different variations into the mix that were well , what is the quality of podcasting and how should I do this ? And I could do that , but I should .
And looking back at the kind of genesis of podcasting , i feel like everything's evolved over time to really reflect what an audience wants to hear , and that's kind of the standard of what we have today , whether it's , you know , nobody wants to hear really bad audio and no one wants to hear someone that rambles on forever and doesn't have a point to what they
are saying . And I feel like I have had the privilege to meet a lot of people that do production really well , and so I'm excited about today's guest , because Justin is actually someone that I met at Podcast Movement Evolutions in Vegas earlier this year And we just had a chance to talk . We actually talk about , you know , meeting and everything .
But it was super awesome to see that there are people out there making production their priority Because , as you know , like I do the things on this show , like I do the editing myself , i do the video editing , podcast editing , but that doesn't mean that's the only way to podcast .
So many of you come to me and you're like Crystal , thank you for your tips on everything , but I will never edit my own podcast And I think that's perfectly fine . It's perfectly fun , especially if you don't have the time to do it and you don't have the skill sets .
Or even you're like I don't care about learning it , i don't want to do it , i have other things to do , i have other priorities . I totally understand , which is why I wanted to have Justin come on the show and let's talk through the mechanics of production and just all things podcasting . Come on , let's just call it what it is .
We're went to podcast nerds talking about podcasting and we had such a fun time and it's a great conversation . So enjoy my chat with Justin Peters . Welcome to the Profit Podcast , where we teach you how to start , launch and market your content with confidence . I'm your host , crystal Profit , and I'm so excited that you're here .
Thanks for hanging out with me today , because if you've been trying to figure out the world of content creation , this is the show that will help be your time saving shortcut . So let's get right to it . Shall we All right Profit Podcast listeners . We have a special guest on the show today . Welcome to the show , justin . How are you ?
Crystal , I'm doing great And I'm so stoked to be on this conversation with you . This has been a little ways in the making , but it's a pleasure meeting you at Podcast Movement and excited to continue the conversation .
Yes , oh my gosh , Like I want to share a little behind the scenes , because this is what we always do here on the show . So Justin and I we met at Podcast Movement and then we've tried to have this interview a few times , y'all . What is it with , like school schedules ?
And then , like all of a sudden , i was having to explain to Justin like I can be the best planner in the world . I'm like , okay , i know , when we have holidays , we have spring break , we have all these things , and there's always something that comes up .
And I'm just so grateful that you've been gracious enough to deal with my unpredictable schedule , that is , being a parent of three children , but it happens . So if anybody's dealing with this right now , just know that it happens . Have you had any like crazy scheduling that you've had to deal with in your podcasting journey ? and just dealing with podcasters ?
Yeah , i'm sure I have . I'm trying to think through honestly . client scheduling has been challenging for me recently . I have a ton of parents that are clients as well , a couple of new parents , so sometimes they just have to like flip off video and recipe during our calls to like make time
¶ Podcasting Challenges and Feedback
in the day for me . And I'm like cool , like whatever we gotta do to get it done , let's do it .
Whatever works , and I mean I think that that's so refreshing to hear that too , that you know we live in this world that everyone's trying to figure out like what quote unquote normal looks like for working , and just trying to understand , well , how can I do this thing that I really wanna do ?
Because for a lot of people , podcasting is a passion project And it's not always something that they're doing . They're gonna start this thing and they know it's gonna be super profitable from the beginning , but they're doing it because they're excited and they're passionate about it .
And I mean , like I can tell you like I've a hot mess whenever I've recorded podcasting stuff And I'm just like you know what , but I wanna do it . I wanna do it so , so bad . So I hope that you engage a lot with people that are really passionate about their message and what they wanna share .
But I actually wanna talk about how did you get into podcasting ? Like , how are we even having this conversation ? How did we meet at podcast movement ? I wanna hear all the things .
I'll make a long story short , but I started podcasting four years ago . It came out of a self-made sabbatical . Actually , i got . I was very lost to my career at the time and I had somebody recommend creating a sabbatical for myself and he also in that conversation recommended the first half year sabbatical .
Dive into a project that you've always wanted to do but you've never had time because of work , and I knew that was podcasting . I became a podcast consumer probably two or three years before that . I loved the medium so much . It was totally how I learned , and I was like you know what it dawned on me one day I could be a creator in the space as well .
So I bought two Yeti microphones , i set them on the shelf , i started doing all the planning for the podcast And then eight months went by as they collected dust on the shelf And I realized I hadn't . I had never even pressed record on a podcast episode yet . And then , as soon as he gave me that piece of advice , i knew exactly what I wanted to start .
So podcasting it was . I called my best friend , we booked a time six days from then to record our first episode , and the rest is history . It's been a blitz .
It was really supposed to just be a professional development project while I was taking up a break from work And I doubled down on podcasting and been doing it for four years And then also created a business out of it as well .
Oh , i love hearing this , justin . I love hearing this so much because , well , first of all , there are so many people in this audience that are listening right now that they are in that catalyst moment of you getting started . They're waiting for that thing . They're waiting . They have microphones .
I've talked to so many people that they're like I literally have like six microphones and they're just sitting there . So was there something that you just finally looked at it one day and you said you know what , today is the day I'm going to do this . I want to know what actually went through your mind before you started recording with your friend .
Like , did you practice Because people always say it's so weird , it is so weird recording by yourself ? Like I feel anxious , i feel dumb . Like so many people that come to me and they're like Crystal , i have an MBA . Like I am not a stupid person , i am super , super smart . Why do I feel so dumb when I get a microphone put in front of my face ?
So did you have any of those feelings when you were just getting started ?
Crystal , i still have those feelings Are you kidding me ? Less of the microphone now , more of a camera in my face . That's when I'm like uh-oh . I break up a little bit then , but yeah , it was definitely overwhelming .
At first I actually didn't speak into a microphone until I had that initial interview with my friend And then I realized actually how hard it was to do so low content after that interview , when I had to record the intro and my intro bumpers and outro bumper for the podcast as well , and then I realized , oh , holy cow , this is so weird to be talking .
I think I probably took 20 takes on that before I felt like I got it right . And I don't know , i still go through those sometimes when we're recording ads or solo episodes . It's like God , it's . Some days you're just like I'm not feeling it today Come on .
This is exactly what my audience needs to hear , though , because I think that , you know , i'm several years into my journey as well , and usually it will take me a single take to do some things , and sometimes it will take me . I just recorded an ad the other day and it took me six times .
Like I was just like wait , i said that wrong , i said that weird or I said things out of order , and it's just something that I think that people are just of the imagination , that some people just turn on the microphone and it's easy for them . It's awkward for everybody . I don't care what kind of background you had .
It is still super awkward because podcasting is unlike any other medium And , like you said , everyone's like oh , by the way , you got to record on video today and let's put you know , a phone or a camera or something in your face , and you got to look in the lens . You got to look straight down the barrel or you can look at your like .
There's so many variables that go into being a quote unquote good podcaster , but I think , at the end of the day , what I always go back to is being yourself and letting those pieces of your natural personality and the awesome things that make you shine . So I love that .
You know , i just know there's people that are thinking , oh thank God , justin , thank you for being honest , because we need it .
And it is always a working progress , especially your first 10 to 15 episodes . I wouldn't judge yourself on those , just get started and judge yourself for actually completing them .
I love your most recent podcast episode , as of today , when you were just talking about the B minus or the B plus , i think you were talking through like Amy Porterfield , and I was like , yeah , that's such a great piece of advice , especially for people that are beginning their podcast journey , because it's not gonna be perfect .
I remember I was getting some feedback from a friend . I was episode three and he listened to all three of my first episodes and he was complimentary . And then , of course , something that he said really hit hard with me . He's like , yeah , your interviews are great . I really enjoyed the conversation , but you're really bad at reading your intros .
And I was like oh no .
Oh , that hurt And honestly that probably took me like 10 to 15 , maybe even 20 episodes to like overcome that a little bit and realize like okay yeah , that was a work in progress . I had not spoken into a microphone and read an intro script before . That is okay if I was at this stage , as long as I'm improving , but that sat a long time .
It probably took a hundred compliments before I felt okay about being on microphone again .
Oh my gosh , this is actually . This is a great segue into you working with clients , because I hear this a lot , where people will say I asked somebody for feedback because we have a Facebook group and from time to time we'll have someone saying I'm going to launch my podcast and they put their trailer up and people are critical of it .
But in ways where I have to , like behind the scenes , go and coach that person , like help them lick their wounds , like hang on , hang on , hang on .
So just open up feedback to whoever , because the only feedback that matters is your audience , the potential listener that you're trying to reach , not your mom , not your brother , not your best friend , like if they're not in your target audience , i'm sorry , but some of their feedback just doesn't matter .
Like maybe it does for the audio quality or for the way , like making sure everything sounds great . How do you kind of have that discerning ear when you're helping someone with their podcast and you're not their ideal listener , like , let's say , it's a podcast for you know , 35 year old moms , like that's not you .
So how do you kind of coach people through that if they're getting some sort of feedback similar to what you had ? If somebody's like . I don't really like that . Is there any advice that you would have ?
Well , pretty much with all of my clients , i would say most of the feedback I give , at least through the first three sessions or so , is all the things that they're doing right so far , and I really try to double down on that .
And , of course , if there is some critical feedback or some feedback that you really need to share as a podcast coach or manager , you got it , you got to give it , but I routinely just hit the things that they're doing well instead . On the external feedback , it's hard , like it's really hard .
I think I like to tell them to take mental notes of it , but , once again , you're the only one that should be judging it to start with , and maybe a couple of ideal listeners . I'm not crazy about posting it and being like , hey , i need feedback , all of that .
I mean , it's great to publicize it and put it out there and start the marketing process , but then I'd beta that with three to five people that you know are your ideal listener .
Yeah , it's kind of the same of like you know , i'll hear people that are authors and they say you know they put their book out and it's out in the world , but they never read their reviews . They don't read their reviews on Amazon , they don't read them on Goodreads .
They have someone on their team or maybe a partner or a best friend or somebody that's reading those because they're like I need that layer of criticism and like more of a filter of something that can be constructive to the creation of my next piece of work or something else that I'm doing .
But I don't need to know all the one star Like the people that are just like miserable on the internet that want to share their terrible thoughts . It's just not helpful . It's not helpful at all .
Yeah , There's a whole lot of that recently .
I feel like Yes , especially on YouTube . I mean , let's just be honest , like I feel like that's where the trolls camp out and they just wait . They wait for anybody's stuff to come their way and they just attack you . So if you're listening to this , you have a video podcast , just know it's coming .
If you haven't gotten negative comments , like it's coming , it happens to us all and it just means that you're officially a content creator if you get negative stuff on YouTube . But I wanted to transition , justin , because , like we said earlier , we met at podcast movement , which was so fun . I'm so grateful . You came to my
¶ Navigating Video in Podcasting
talk and then you introduced yourself afterwards and it was great to meet you in the first place and catch up . And then I wanted to see what was your most impactful talk at podcast movement , or maybe a big takeaway that you had that you'd like to share .
The underlying through line . You had a great piece of advice and that was just around imperfection and not letting imperfection get in the way of you actually producing your show . I thought that was a timely piece of advice for anyone . If they're at the beginning stages , they're launching their show , or they're a seasoned vet .
I feel like that's still piece of advice that rings true throughout this entire journey through . Another session that I really loved was Dan Meiser's from Bumper I think it was Bumper . He talked about podcast neighborhoods , which is this concept of essentially going to Apple podcast .
They have that section at the very bottom that says shows like this and it'll give you eight shows like this And he has this crazy map that he creates around these eight shows that are like your shows and then he'll click on those eight shows and he'll figure out what are the eight shows like that show and he'll create this entire essentially neighborhood So you
can start seeing pockets of niches that Apple podcast doesn't have .
They have the wellness category , but as he put together the podcast neighborhood , he found this cluster of a bunch of different podcasts and he found out these were all the meditation based podcasts that are out there And then , using that , you can , of course , go out and start doing some promo , especially if you're like guest podcasting or you're buying ad spots
on like kind quality type of a podcast out there . I thought the concept was really cool . I was really hoping at the very end he was going to share with us a URL where we could drop our RSS feed in and it would generate a podcast neighborhood for us . But he essentially was like yep , you got to do it manual or hire me .
Come on , come on . What a cliffhanger , right . What a good sales pitch . That was good , that was good .
He was a lot of fun . What about you ? What was one of your favorites ?
Oh my gosh .
Well , first of all , i want to comment on this because I've heard this before and I've told people about the strategy , but you just maybe think of it in a way that is very different , because what I will typically do is I'll go to a tool like chartable , listen to notes , like some of these that , like you said , like we'll have the categories of .
You know , this is business , marketing , this is education , how to , which are two of my biggest categories for my specific show , and I'll just kind of like weed through the ones that either I've heard of or I know that someone in my space kind of has that connection , like oh yeah , i've listened to this before .
Or this person that hosts that show has been a guest on so and so's podcast .
So I love the idea of taking it a step further instead of just like the eight shows that are there start digging deeper And it's like going down a rabbit hole , but you know that it's not a rabbit hole like a rabbit hole on Google , where you're like I've come up an hour later and I'm like how the heck to get here .
At least you know that they're all interconnected , so that's fantastic . I didn't get a chance to go to that talk . So thank you for sharing That was awesome .
It was really fun And , of course , i went to tons of talks on both AI and short form video . I feel like that those were the two themes of podcast movement and definitely something we were interested in learning more about . But we'll see , i don't know . Video is so complicated .
I feel like I'm still interested in it and tangentially like kind of trying to learn as much as I can .
But I also was reassured that many people are like Hey , if you just want to stay on audio only too , that is okay right now , and I think for a lot of the end dependent podcasters that you talk to that are solo shops or small teams , that that is kind of the current strategy , even though YouTube now dropped the podcast label out there too , which I'm curious
to see where they end up going here in the near future with podcasting .
You know it is video is the thing that people come to me in like in a panic stricken mode , like , oh , i decided I was going to do this podcast And now I found out I have to do video .
And if I don't do it , and I don't do these reels and I'm not on TikTok and I'm not doing shorts , like they're just there and heart palpitations , like freaking out about it And I'm like hang on , i did audio only for a year and a half before I ever even kind of thought about doing YouTube .
And then I did YouTube and I did it hard , like I did three videos a week and it wasn't like all podcasts , like clips from my podcast that I put out there . It was a little bit of a different strategy , but I just remind people all the time like video is great .
I think it's fantastic If you can show your face , let people know what you look like , because then they can know I can trust you faster .
But it's also not the only way to grow a show And I think that across the board , the whole podcasting industry as a whole is frustrated with discoverability And what video can do , especially on YouTube , is help you get discovered .
But I still think you make those deep connections when someone is listening in their AirPods , like on a run , they're driving their kids in the car , like whatever it is . There's just still something about that connection that you absolutely cannot replicate in video form . I don't know what it is . Maybe there's scientific , scientific evidence out there .
If you find it , justin , you'll have to send it to me . But that's that's kind of my stance on it . I love learning about video , but it's , it is . It's a beast , it's a monster . Is there something specifically that your audience , like are your clients have like a big challenge with ?
Like , do they come to you and say , look , i don't want to be on video . I don't , i'll do it , but I don't want to be on video . Or is there just kind of a consensus of we'll figure out video after we get this audio thing going ? How does that really look ?
I think that's our plan of attack typically , yeah , but I mean , our clients have multiple different challenges in it . Some it is I don't really love being on video and I'm like cool , then let's just not start that yet .
It's one thing to like put a mic in front of you and then , on top of that , put a camera in front of you and you're supposed to like deliver great content . Let's take one of the variables out right now . Some of it is cost . Video editors are . The rates are just crazy nowadays too , the production , all of that .
And I feel like you're like having to continue to step up the level of expectation for video , especially short form video , if we're talking more about using video to promote through social And , yeah , i would say those are probably the two major categories that I get there , but I don't know , everyone's a little bit different when it comes to video , and I'm also
open to just starting with the minimal viable product . And if you just want to hop on a zoom , call and record and you just have a canva template that you overlay on a video , cool , let's start there and see if we can gain some traction .
Oh , i love this , i love this And I actually I haven't done a lot of video editing in Canva , so I love that you mentioned that , because I've been using Camtasia for a long time and I recently switched over to Descript and I'm doing things . But also , again , for anybody that's listening , i've been doing this for a five year .
I have more than 400 YouTube videos . At this point , i am in the trenches doing this , but at most everybody that listens to this show has a Canva account And I always forget about their video editor because I don't personally use it a lot .
But I'm so glad that you mentioned that because it is like and the amount of templates , oh my gosh , can we just talk about the templates in Canva ? They have exploded in the last few years and they are focusing on video , so they have ones for Reels , they have podcast stuff , so I'm so glad that you mentioned that . That's , that's a great one .
And also YouTube has a built-in editor as well . So if you just want to pull it straight into YouTube and edit through YouTube , it's a .
I find it a little clunky , but if you don't have a free editing software on your computer , I think that's also a really great place to start , especially long form video , where you probably won't do a whole lot of tight editing because you don't want those hard chops throughout the interview .
You could just slap on your intro outro , clean up a couple of word fumbles or big gaps and you can let it out there . Once again , I think you can slowly take steps into video .
You don't have to go all in on video or not , Like you can just go from A to B to Z and kind of let it slowly happen , versus just I gotta do all of , I gotta get the lighting and I gotta hire a professional editor and I gotta do this and that and this . It's like oh come on , just start somewhere and slowly progress .
Oh man , and that's just how everybody burns out . Oh , i'm . It just makes my heart so upset to see so many people come into podcasting and they're on fire and they're ready to do it all and they're gonna tackle everything , and then they do all the things .
They hire , they spend thousands of dollars and they are so stressed out And in six months that fire has burned out and they are completely burned out . And actually this is a great place to ask this question , justin , because I'm curious , like , do you have any tips ?
Like , if somebody's there right now , like if somebody is at the point , they're like oh my gosh , i committed , i over committed to so many things . Do you have any advice for someone that's really in that point of struggling ? Like , do I even keep going with my podcast or should I stop ? Should I cut back somewhere ?
Like , what would you say to that person ?
I actually think that's a really fair question . Podcasting is not easy and there's a whole lot of work that's involved in actually creating a podcast , and if you're 20 episodes in and you realized podcasting is not for me , awesome . But I don't wanna discourage anyone from exiting podcast .
I don't think that's what we're trying to do here , and I think anyone that's probably listening to this podcast really enjoys the craft of podcasting , and they're probably just more so feeling overwhelmed with everything that has to happen . Feel free to get creative . Like hey , you can take a break too .
Like you're allowed to like just not produce for a month or something , if that's what you wanna do . I don't strongly encourage it . With my own clients , we'll find more creative ways to come up to give them an actual break , therefore , so that their listeners aren't necessarily taking a break , but they're taking a break .
¶ Guest Experience in Podcasting
But if you're solo and you just don't have the capacity and you just need a month right now , you now have my authority to go out and take a month . Outside of that , i think you can get creative . You can replay old episodes . You can ask for audio from podcasts that you've guested on and you could replay that on your show . You could .
maybe you do long format , maybe you do hour long interviews . Maybe you just hop on for 10 minutes and have a conversation with yourself and you do a different style . that doesn't gotta take so long to edit on the background or to produce on the background as well .
I think you can get creative and try something new And , honestly , sometimes , whenever I try different segment or format , it re-energizes me around the craft of creating podcasts and helps me get going again .
Oh my gosh , justin , i hope that you are a fan of the movie Step Brothers because I feel like saying , did we just become best friends ? Because everything you said is like , oh my gosh , like it's 100% , is what we talk about all the time here ?
because you're exactly right , like the breaks , like while I don't want you to step away for a super long time and I actually was just talking to someone in our community recently and she was like I have to take a break this summer , like I'm stretched so thin personally and everything And I said awesome , take a break , but just tell people when you're gonna
come back , because that will give you that momentum to actually come back and not just be on this like hiatus . That's permanent And you know sometimes like let's just call it , it is what it is Some people will fade out , they will have that pod fade and they won't be able to stay in podcasting longterm .
But if you really just need a break and you need to be able to step away , then having that break where you say hey guys , i'm gonna be out for a few weeks , i'm visiting family , i'm doing whatever , and you don't have to explain anything , you just say but this is when I'm coming back Like we're gonna come back refreshed , rejuvenated and ready to hit the
ground running . I think is a great way to have that break for yourself , because I see it too often and I hate it . It breaks my heart every single year when I go to look for a podcast and it's not there anymore or they haven't updated in months and months and months .
So yeah , I love to hear your thoughts on that . I look at those all the time . I do a lot of preparation for the guests that I have on my show And I'm always just curious because I'll go out .
So if you were on my show , i would go out to Spotify , create a playlist for you , i'd go look up Crystal Profit and I would add any episode that I can find that you've been on a guest on , add it to that playlist And it's multifunctional for me . Now , of course , i'm prepping and preparing for the conversation that I'm gonna have with you .
I'm also learning new things . Like it's really cool to like see other podcasters and what they're doing with their own show , but then also now I've been using it as somewhat of a sales tool . Like I'm like , oh , like if I hear a podcast that I really like and I wanna be the producer for that show , i'll write them down .
But I quickly go over and see if they're still producing their podcasts And there are so many out there that I have just kind of dropped off And it's sad , it's kind of a bummer .
Now , i love your tip on the playlist , though . So tell me more about that . Tell me more . So you do this when you know you're gonna be on their show or you're gonna interview them . Like tell me more . So full disclosure . I don't have Spotify , i have Apple Music . I do have a Spotify . I listened to one podcast on Spotify and that is it .
I'm at Apple Music . This is just what our household is Like . We have the full package of like all the Apple stuff , but I'm curious how that works , because that sounds super interesting , and can you explain that a little bit more ?
Yeah , i'm an extreme interviewer , So don't take this for a prescription for what you should do . I probably spend 10 to 15 hours on guest prep for each person that comes on my show . But that's my style , that's my uniqueness for the show . They're gonna get a really customized experience And I really emphasize guest experience over even listenership for the show .
Like it's really . I have found through podcasting , the relationships that I've made with my guest are actually , honestly , some of the biggest tangible things or like the best benefit from podcasting itself . But yes , so once again , i'll create a Spotify playlist . I'll just go into the search function . I'll search Crystal Prophet .
I'll grab any episode that you're on . Sometimes , if I can't find a lot , i'll ask my guests Like hey , have you been on any podcasts before ? I'd love to listen to a couple to prep , and they'll send me over the list or they might have them on their website , things like that , and I'll just go out and I'll typically put at least 20 .
Like , if they're like I just interviewed someone a month ago that has been on over 400 podcasts I'm like you are crazy .
I will listen to some .
I'm not gonna listen to all 400 of your interviews , i promise you that . So yeah , i go about that . I open up a note in my phone and the first two to three episodes I'm really just getting to know the guest .
Like I might write down some like oh , crystal lives here , or you know it was Crystal's second time in Vegas , or Crystal's an early riser , or her podcast used to be called The Rookie Life . Like I will jot down a couple of those small things about the guest .
But then after about three episodes I really start dialing in on what stories are they really great at telling ? What do they love teaching about ? What questions perk them up and get them excited to answer ? So then I'll kind of start subcategorizing those And then I'll take all of that , all those notes , about a week out .
And then I start to think about my own listeners . So I speak to 22 year old college graduates that realize college didn't teach them everything . That's what my show is all about . And I'll start looking at my notes from their lens And I'm like what story would really resonate with these ?
Like , what piece of advice are they great at telling that a 22 year old would need ? So that's typically my preparation process .
I am super impressed . Like that is so incredible And I love that you bring this perspective to the show , because I'm the exact opposite of everything that you just said And I think that a lot of the audience probably lands somewhere in the middle between . So I'll do a little bit of guest prep .
I'll look and see , kind of like what you said , if they have a website , or go to the website check out other shows that they've been on . But in my mind like I don't wanna get too caught up in previous conversations that we're having some of the same conversations on the show .
Like I'm always thinking like what's something that they've never been asked before Or what's like a piece of their story that we can pull out that is going to be like very custom to this interview And the only place that they've ever shared that , or no one's ever asked me that question .
I love it when a guest says no one's ever asked me that question before . It's always so fun . So if you're listening to this , just know that it is totally up to you , like it's your style And , like Justin said , it's just a very different experience . I love that you said a guest experience because I have found that networking with podcasting .
I mean it's just gold . It's so incredible Did you feel that way , like when you first got into podcasting that all of a sudden your network just exponentially expanded .
That to produce a interview based show every other week , you naturally run out of people and your immediate network to talk to , so you're always looking for interesting people to introduce yourself to and or asking other people Like who's the most interesting person that you know ?
And that just habit because I needed to actually source guest has 10 folded the network that I have And , honestly , a lot of my clients .
So my very first session that I have with our clients is all about the goals for the podcast And I'll have them rank a lot of really hard challenges between monetizing , growing your listenership , building soft skills , growing your own personal brand or your own thought leadership , and networking or building relationships with your guests , and more times than not , that's
their number one , like a lot of my clients for some reason rank the relationship or the networking aspect as one or two , second to sometimes the thought leadership aspect , and then listeners is usually number three .
So that makes me challenge them throughout a lot of the process too , because they'll start talking about marketing and whatnot And I'll bring them back and I'm like , hey , remember , your number one podcast goal was to build relationships through your guest And therefore we need to spend a whole lot more time thinking about your guest experience .
So , like I was just working with a show , actually , and they're in studio , so we mapped out where to park for free , like how to find the side door to get into the studio . Like we asked them in their guest intake form what's your favorite snack ? And you bet you bought them .
That snack will be there whenever they're getting showing up and getting ready for the interview , little things like that . And then a unique invitation and a great sincere thank you for coming on the show .
And we put a whole lot of emphasis on that And the aspect of it versus how do I continue to grow and market my show , because that's what they're trying to get out of it . But if they're trying to grow and market the show , we're gonna have a completely different strategy and we might think less about guests experience .
We might not even think or we might even encourage them not to do guesting or half guest on their show .
I love the thought of the guest experience Like that . just well . the first thing that comes to mind is me , you know , being a marketer first , like marketing is my first love . Podcasting is just how I show that love to the world is being able to market with podcasting .
But I immediately thought of , oh my gosh , if I had that experience in a studio , i'm going to tell people about it . I'm going to say they had my favorite snack . They had trail mix and beef jerky , like in a LeCroy .
they had a lime LeCroy waiting for me with some beef jerky and some trail mix And I was like , oh my gosh , like this is fantastic , like I'm going to tell other people about it .
So I love the idea of putting a guest experience first if that's what someone you know is part of their goal , because I tell people when I have a fantastic experience and , unfortunately for other businesses , i will tell them if I've had a bad experience too .
So anytime you can go back and I've actually had several people you know come onto this show and they'll say you know , this was a great interview or this was a great conversation . And that also checks boxes for me too . It's not just I want to have a big name guest or I want to have this connection It's .
can I make the person feel comfortable , can I get them to be excited to share their interview when it goes live too ? Because I mean , you're not going to want to hear this with everybody listening right now , but you can have a really big person on your show and they not share it with a single person in their network . That's just the reality of it .
So I'm curious when you work with people that are either guessing on shows like maybe you're coaching them through that , like what are some of the things that you kind of think about as they step out of their comfort zone , maybe from their bubble of their own show , into guessing on other people's podcasts ?
We have like a whole list of
¶ Podcast Pitching and Connection Building
some things to consider when guessing . One thing that I think is super simple to do but so many people don't do it is just prepare for that interview like you would prepare for your own interview .
So once again .
I've listened to three of your episodes already . I know a lot of little facts about you and that helps weave in some conversation that I have here .
I'll also I try to like strongly encourage them to if they're not asking for a prep call beforehand , get on a call and have a call with them to get a direction for the show or what they wanna talk about there . Lots of little things .
Even just in the green room , like right before the conversation happens , i say , hey , like you're gonna come on with the same amount of energy before the mic is even pressed , like I'm gonna come in right away and be like hey , crystal , i really like I'm super excited for this conversation .
I it always rubs me the wrong way when someone comes in really flat and then I press record and then they're like a completely different person . I'm like , oh , that was weird . Little things like that , like little coaching , i think , can make the guest experience a lot different .
And then , of course , just like after the fact , your first guest experience is gonna be like your first podcast that you recorded too . Like you might not do that well , so I'm gonna ask you afterwards , like what feedback do you have for me ? Like , how can I improve for my next guest interview ? What can I do to support you ?
Little things like that to help solidify the entire experience , i think .
Oh my gosh , i love the idea of the like jekyll and hide of , like somebody that's just like really stone cold , like low energy , and then you hit record and then all of a sudden it's like whoa jazz hands you know It's like where did this person come from ? What just happened ? I ?
haven't had a lot of those anymore . I feel like I talked like the podcast industry is so great , there's so many genuine great people that are out there , especially the guest , and I hope part of that's just the person that I tracked .
But also I think like this is such a specific and unique medium because you're gonna be in someone's ear for 30 to 60 minutes and you can't really fake that much , especially over the long run . So both as a podcaster or as a guest like you kind of have to be somewhat authentic , or else people are gonna read right through it .
Yeah , and this is . It's such a great point , you know , because Justin and I like we met in person , like we actually had I don't even know how long our conversation . We were like 30 minutes . I remember you were like , hey , can I come hang out with you ?
I was like , yeah , sure , i'm eating my lunch , but come on , like I'm gonna eat my salad while you talk .
He was like , okay , great , but we sat there and we talked and we had a genuine conversation And I think that that really solidified because even since so here's like fun fact behind the scenes since we left podcast movement , i've had several old pitches of people , whether they were podcasting businesses or people that were like , hey , i saw you were there , you'll
wanna connect . And I'm like absolutely not Just going straight So sorry for listening to this and you messaged me . It went to my trash folder immediately because if there's no genuine connection and this is again , this is just me and this is my personal style If I don't feel that genuine connection , it's not going to work . I don't want you on my podcast .
I can't do like the blind pitches anymore where people are saying you know , I've had millions of dollars of success and I'm a Forbes this and a best seller that , and I'm just like I can't do it , like do you see this all the time too ? Like tell me , it's not just me .
Oh man , you're gonna get me started on a hot one right now if we start talking about pitching . I'm very , very passionate about pitching . First of all , if you're having your executive assistant or your PR person pitch me , i'm probably gonna delete it right away . Like hey , i'm the executive assistant for Crystal Profit .
Like I think she'd be a great fit for your show , kind of thing . And then it goes into me , me , me , me , me , like everything about this person . And then the very end is like would you be interested in having her on the show ? I'm like no , first of all , like I just hate that approach . And you can have someone pitch for you . I get it , you're .
There are many busy entrepreneurs that employ somebody to actually get them on shows . But there's a better way to go about it And , honestly , sometimes the more simple way to go about it . Like if I were coming on your show , i would probably cherry pick .
Well , at first I'd figure out who your listener is , and I think a lot of pitches go sideways just because they don't even know who the podcaster is trying to serve . So I know you serve independent podcasters . I'm gonna bring up in my pitch . Hey , Crystal , i haven't .
I've seen that you haven't covered how to treat your room to get the best audio quality throughout one of your interviews before . Would you be open to having a conversation about that And then just like leave it at that ? like , continue the great work on the podcast . Really enjoyed listening to it so far And that's all you gotta do .
And they're gonna say yes or no And then you just move on Like pitching doesn't have to be this like brain dump awful 15 paragraphs of how great you are , Like I don't really care that much .
I can all honestly No , it's exactly how I feel too . And again , did we just become best friends ? Because this is exactly how I feel . It's like you have to make me care about how you can help my audience . It doesn't even have to be how you can help me , i don't even care about that . Like , how are you going to add value to my show ?
Because that is all I care about . It is literally the only thing . So , if you're listening and you wanna pitch Justin's show , you wanna pitch my show . Like this is where it starts And typically it doesn't start in the email . Making that connection .
Like I have seen a lot more people trying to make like a DM connection on Instagram or still on Facebook , and it's like it has to start from an actual , genuine conversation . And it's harder , i'll admit like it's hard . It's hard to make those connections .
But , man , once you make them like so now you know I might be going to podcast movement in Colorado like if I get a chance to go , i'm gonna be like , hey , justin , are you going ? Like let's have coffee . Like let's meet up and chat . Like let's go to a session together . Like we have this actual connection now where it goes beyond .
Oh yeah , justin was on my podcast .
Yeah , that was fine , it was cool , like no , like I'm gonna have him on my show , i'm gonna promote what he's doing , because I'm excited for Justin , not just as another podcaster , but as someone in this industry who is aligned with my values and my principles of what I'm trying to do , and so my hope is that that will happen for more people too .
Yeah Well , first of all , if you go to podcast movement , I would love to grab a coffee with you or go to a session together . That'd be so fun . And second , to comment on what you just said there too , typically , me interviewing someone and or me being interviewed by someone is the start of our relationship , not the end of our relationship .
I mean , i really only wanna interview people . That would really excite me . Of course , i do 10 to 15 hours of prep for everybody . Like that alone is like a great qualifier , like would I wanna spend 10 hours consuming this person's content So right away . Like that weeds a lot of people out for me .
And second of all , like I gotta be really excited about who you are And I've gotta really believe in who you are for me to want to bring you onto my platform or to go on your platform too . Like sometimes it's even good to say no to some podcast pitches that you get to be on their show .
I'm actually being kind of fatigued because I had a podcast interview last week and I messaged the guy the week before actually And I said , hey , we still on , like excited for the show , and he's like that interview . And he's like , yeah , could we move it to 12 ? And I was like move it to 12 . Like now I'm booked . Then He's like , how , about two ?
I'm like I , no , i can't do two . Do like , does three o'clock not work for you anymore ? He's like , yeah . I was like , oh , okay . And then so we rescheduled to the following week , which was fine . Like I totally get reschedules , that's fine . I hate that I prompted it the day of the interview . That just seemed kind of unprofessional .
But then I went back on the show and it was like there's nothing there . Like he didn't know who I was . He'd like asked me the same question in three different ways and it just kind of fatigued me .
And for somebody that is routinely podcast guesting , i've now made a rule for myself that if I get this bad gut feeling about going on a show , maybe I should just say no to the opportunity .
Oh my gosh , that right there . If you get a gut feeling about it , follow your gut . I cannot tell you . I mean , i'm so glad you brought that up because it happens and you know , like you know , when you're reading that email and you're like , oh , this sounds like this could be a good fit , but I don't , there's something fishy about it .
But I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt . It is okay to not give people the benefit of the doubt anymore and just say no . Just say no to terrible interviews , because we can usually spot them a mile away . Because I bet , after you got off that call , you were like I kind of knew that this was going to happen and I should have listened .
I should have listened to my gut . So I'm so glad that you shared that .
Oh , You have so much fun podcasting . So anytime that I feel more drained and less drained after an interview , it's disappointing . This is an activity that really fills my cup And , like after this interview , like I'm probably going to go do three hours of work because I'm like gotta be all jazzed up and excited about what happened in this actual interview .
So , yeah , And if you need one more tip on especially pitches for me , like if I'm on the fence about someone I'm like I think they might be a good fit . The content aligns I'm not really sure , or like I like them , but I'm not sure if their content aligns , Like it could be . Either way , I'll just say , hey , I'm booked on guest right now .
Can you reach back out in a month ?
¶ Podcasting Trends and Tips
And if they follow up , that's usually a really good indicator . Was were you just like being one of 100 pitches that they're doing ? and or like , were they genuinely excited to come on your show and share what they had to share ?
Oh , such a great tip . Oh , that's such so y'all go write that down Everybody does those and go write that one down because that is so solid . So have them . You know , reach back out in a month , in 90 days , like whatever it is .
Because I'm such a believer in like the sacredness of a calendar , right , like Justin and I were talking about calendars before we started recording and like how we actually had a reschedule And you know , we talked about it at the beginning .
But I just think back to if I don't have any slots open , i'm not gonna open one , just for a random person that reaches out and says I can only do it this time . I'm like I'm so sorry that doesn't work . Actually , i'm not sorry .
Let's stop saying that This is the schedule , like this is , it is what it is at this point And I just say , look , it aligns or it doesn't . And I think that that's something that may be hard to do in the beginning , because maybe you're like , well , i'm just getting started And you know like I don't really have the leverage to do that . Yes , you do .
We're giving you the permission right now to have a sacred calendar and not just let anybody on your show . But I actually I wanna change like gears for just a second because I wanted to ask you is there anything in podcasting Like we talked a little bit before we started recording about like any fun tools that you have or anything And you mentioned ?
you know , saw some things with AI and different things at podcast movement , but are there any fun things that you're seeing and podcasting right now that you're either trying or you'd like to try or you wanna dabble in soon ?
I think video and AI are like the two big categories that are out there , so I won't drown on that too much , even though we're definitely super interested in AI and how that can support not only our own podcast but our business workflow for our clients as well . Like someone like CapShow , the AI show note generator tool is of interest to us .
We know the founders . They're here in Austin , which is great . Another , like soft touch , i think everything that's happening in pod tech in general . It just lights me up and I'm generally pretty excited . On a lesser note , i have been interested in the general move from interview based shows to more solo shows .
I read a couple of articles about this and it seems like well , ai it seems like the interview based shows are becoming very saturated and it's hard to stand out and be unique . But also solo shows give you such an opportunity for thought , leadership and personal branding too .
So I'm keeping a kind of a keen eye on that And I've been asking a lot of just general podcast listeners what do you prefer ? Do you prefer interview based shows or solo ? I run both experiments . I'm up every other week I do a solo . Every other week I do an interview .
I think you're kind of in a similar boat where you do a mix of both two , but once again , it's not always just for the listeners . If you're in it for the guest relationships too , then of course it's great to have an interview based show . And then the branded podcast space has really piqued my interest as well .
It seems like podcasting now is gone super mainstream . It's like 86% of Americans know what a podcast is , versus in 2006 it was like 11% or something . You just kind of slowly saw the clip go up and up And I think we were both right on the front end of the huge wave of podcast listeners that came in in 2020 and through COVID .
So I love the entry of some of these large corporations or large businesses creating branded podcast And it's very fascinating to see the ones that do it well and the ones that totally flop , and it's just kind of a waste of airspace , i think .
Yeah , oh my gosh , these are so good And these . I mean , like you said , i feel like just talking about those , like we could record five more hours , like just the things that we want to nerd out about and try and everything . But I love , I mean video and AI it's not going anywhere , like it's here to stay .
So I can't wait , like I hope that we do get a chance to nerd out about it . We're going to like have to exchange emails and talk about I tried this , i tried that this works great . This doesn't , but I love the idea of , like you said , the branded podcast . Those were a few talks that I went to at Podcast Movement 2 .
And that's really a world , especially helping so many independent content creators .
I haven't really dabbled too much in that because it's like not really fitting into the mold of what I've created with this audience , but I do find it so interesting And I think that , much like any other like creative endeavor , we should always be looking at other ways that we can implement from .
You know , i look at movies and I look at TV shows and I look at what they're doing , you know , in just different places And I say how can we apply that to podcasting . So I love that you're kind of keeping an eye on the entire industry And I just I can't wait . I'm excited to see what happens .
And you brought up movies too . I thought that one thread that you're talking about , with somebody potentially like kind of almost creating a pilot through a podcast for a TV show , i was like oh , that's so genius . I've been like people have been telling me like amazing use cases for podcasts outside of just like this almost direct to listener type aspect .
I was just talking to someone last night at a podcast meetup actually , and he told me he's building a podcast as a component of his internal onboarding program at his company And I was like that is cool . He's like we're on zoom calls all day long and I don't want to put another video in front of them or an opportunity for them to read .
I want them to go out and take a walk but at the same time they can plug their earphones in and then listen to the next segment of their onboarding experience and go get some fresh air at the same time . I was like that is genius .
So I've seen some like really creative use cases for podcasts , even outside of just what is the traditional aspect of podcasting .
Oh , i love this , like we're just gonna , we're gonna have to , you're just gonna have to come back , justin . So there you go You solidified it . You gotta come back . We have to talk about things that we've learned together . But are you up for some rapid fire questions ?
We ask everybody these Okay , awesome .
So my first question is what piece of advice would you give to a brand new podcaster or content creator ?
Get started . I feel like it's the most overused but honestly , tried and true piece of advice Get started . Your first episode doesn't need to be perfect And honestly shouldn't be perfect , or else you're probably spending way too much time getting it out there . Put the first episode out there , start receiving some feedback and keep continuing on .
Oh , this is so good , so good . Okay , the next one's a two-part question . It's what is the Dream Podcast you would love to be on and who is your dream podcast guest you would love to interview ?
I'd love to be on the Jordan Harpensher Show . I've always adored him . He was the one that really got me into the podcast . like listening to podcasts He was like one of my first . like I just wanna consume anything and everything . Podcast guest dream podcast guest .
I actually have a list of like a hundred people right now that are dream podcast guest and a cherry pick one For some reason , abby Wombach's , coming to the top of my head . She's a former soccer player . I think I'm thinking about her because she's A on that list and I have them alphabetized because I'm OCD .
But yeah , she's definitely somebody that's on my dream desk list .
So good , do you listen to their podcast ?
Yes , i'm not a huge , huge consumer of it , but my girlfriend is a die-hard fan . It's been fun seeing their journey in the podcasting space as well , and I think they're doing a phenomenal job , because everybody I talk to ends up loving that show if they go out and listen to it .
Yeah , it's so good . That's what I was going to say . Well , at least you know she has the equipment , so you're good there . Like she'll have the podcast equipment , she'll be good to go . So you know . Fingers crossed for you that that happens , ok . My last question is do you consider yourself a perfectionist ?
I would love to say no to this question , but it's a yes . I'm a perfectionist . I've seen it through my whole podcasting journey . I still see it throughout tons of different things that I do . It's probably such a hard balance because I definitely think it has elevated me to places or gave me the type of quality for work that I really appreciate .
But sometimes it does slow me down as well because once again I'm I wanted to be perfect before I release it to other people .
Yeah Well , this actually says like seg weighs knifely . Did I still say that ? right , that's not a beard in my head , but you know what I meant . I love it because you help people with their podcast . So I mean you know having that perfectionist quality isn't a bad thing And what you're doing to have those production services .
So can you tell everybody what you do for people that are listening to the show , that are thinking that they need a little bit of help with their podcast ?
Yeah , I help business owners launch , grow and maintain their podcast . There's so much space here . I've had so much joy being a part of it . My brother is also a co-founder in our business . He does all the audio production and I do a bunch of other random things associated with the business , it seems like . But we have a launch package .
So if you're you're ready to get going , but you just need support and guidance and direction on all that , perfect . And then we're podcast managers as well .
So if you realize the value from podcasting , but you just need some ongoing support in terms of editing , copywriting , publishing , marketing , anything and everything , we're really excited to help those podcasters .
That's awesome . And then tell me the name of your podcast . I know you mentioned it several times . I want to that way if anybody's listening and they'd be in your ideal audience .
Yes , the struggle is real . It's all about navigating your 20s . It's kind of the things that we wish we would want to learn in school , the things that I love to talk about . So if you're , if you fit that demographic , i'd love it if you came over , checked out an episode . We are a wide variety of topics .
I go back and forth between really narrowing in , but I just have so much fun jumping in and out of different topics all over the place . So I mean , we've talked about personal finances , we've talked about sex , we've talked about how to switch careers . It's we kind of bounce around between a bunch of different things .
So go back , look at our most five reason episodes , pick one that really resonates with you and I'd really appreciate it if you gave it a listen .
Yeah , awesome . So we're going to link to everything that Justin has to offer in the show notes . But I so appreciate you coming on the show today And I'm just so grateful that you came up after my talk and you said , Hey , Crystal , like can we chat for a second ? I'm like , yes , this is great , Like it was so much fun .
So thank you so much for coming on the show today .
Yeah , and likewise , crystal , it's been a blast getting to know you over the last month or so . Thank you so much for having me on the show And
¶ Podcasting Value and Promotion
, honestly , thank you so much for creating the show . I feel like I've already learned a lot just starting to binge your catalog . I'm very excited to get back to the rookie life . I don't know what episode ends up switching , but I've already heard you mention it like at least three or four times of like oh , it wasn't that perfect .
So like , if you want to see a real journey , like go back and listen to some of the early episodes . So I'm very excited I'm working backwards on your catalog right now . So so stoked And thanks so much .
It always makes me cringe when people say that they're like I'm going to go back And I'm like I know I tell people to go back , but I'm also like , oh , it's a little rough , but I just I .
Yeah , hopefully you find something valuable there , but yeah kudos for you for like leaving that out there too and just allowing people to actually see that journey . I think that takes a lot of bravery , so thank you so much for that .
Yeah , but thank you so much for coming on the show today . What a fun conversation .
Again , thank you so much , justin , for bringing so much value to this podcast , but for coming up and talking to me after my talk at podcast movement , because that's how these relationships happen And I think that this is an incredible example of if you're going to events and you're attending conferences or other type of things in your network , where you are
actually in person with people , make those genuine connections , Because now Justin and I , like , we'll be friends for life in this podcasting space , because he took the opportunity to reach out and actually have a conversation and make these genuine connections .
Because I feel like so much of what's going on in , especially the business world , like the online business world , is like , okay , well , can you follow me ? Okay , now we're followers . Like , now we're friends quote unquote online . But what does that mean ? Right , if someone follows you online , like , what does that really mean ?
Okay , that's not even an acquaintance , right ? That doesn't even get into the realm of like , you have the hierarchy of friendships , like a subscriber or a follower , like , that's just what they are , right , and it's not that deeper connection . So I am so grateful that Justin came and talked to me and we had this incredible conversation .
I hope you got tons of value and I want you to check out his studios . So everything's going to be linked in the show notes . So head on over to crystalprofitcom . It's going to be linked where you're listening to this episode , but this was so fun .
Again , justin , thank you so much for hanging out with me geeking out about podcasting , because it's so much fun and I just really appreciate it . So thank you again . But if you found value in today's episode , make sure you take a screenshot wherever you're listening and tag me on Instagram . Tag Justin on Instagram .
I'll have his everything linked in the show notes as well , and I want you to tell us what you thought about today's episode . Was it helpful ? Was there something specific that you're like ? oh my gosh , like I needed to hear that today . We would love to hear from you , but that's all I have .
So make sure you are following or subscribe to this podcast wherever you are listening And , as always , remember , keep it up . We all have to start somewhere .