¶ Tips for Choosing a Content Photographer
I'm so excited about today's episode specifically because I'm sharing with you all the things that I wish I would have known before I ever had my first content photo shoot . So what is a content photo shoot and why does it sound so , bougie , right , like I hear you . I hear you , if that's like . The first place that your mind went was like oh , glamour shots .
Is that what we're talking about here today ?
I get it Because a few years ago , I had those exact same reactions when I thought about other people talking about having a photographer come to their house and take pictures or just do a lot of things that sound very like upscale or expensive , or you're like I'm just getting started , I don't know that I'm there yet .
So I'm going to kind of share my journey with getting pictures taken over the last few years , what that has looked like for me , and then I just finished . So when I'm recording this , I just had my second photo shoot with a photographer here in Houston .
So I want to talk about what it's like to work with someone more than once and how that experience was different , and I hope that it's something that you can find for your content in the future .
So we're covering all the things we're covering how I found my photographer , what kind of packages that you should look for , or different things that you should consider when you're choosing a photographer , as well as some special insider secrets that I cannot wait to share with you . So let's get right to it .
Welcome to Proffitt Po dcast , where we teach you how to start , launch and market your content with confidence . I'm your host , Krystal Proffitt , and I'm so excited that you're here . Thanks for hanging out with me today , because if you've been trying to figure out the world of content creation , this is the show that will help be your time saving shortcut .
So let's get right to it . Shall we ? Okay ? Welcome back , Krystal , here today , and I am really excited to talk about this because , like I said , I just got finished with my photo shoot for 2023 . Let me just throw that out there . This is not something that I do on a regular basis . I'm like I don't do this on .
Like once a quarter I'm gonna have a photo shoot , and that's simply because I don't need that much content . So last year , I did a photo shoot around the same time I think it was closer to the very end of November , beginning of December and it worked out perfect . I was able to use a lot of those pictures for a full year for my website and for social .
But I just have all this fresh on my mind and I wanted to talk about it because I know that there's those of you that are considering like , can I just do this myself for my content or should I hire a photographer ? So that's really for you . I'm like , if you're trying to decide , do I need to hire someone , can I take pictures for myself ?
And I actually have a free guide that's gonna help you , even if you're doing all of this on your own . It will help you plan out what to do , what to think about and all the things .
So , first and foremost , I want to share that I have done pictures , let me see , probably five times in those since 2018 , right , since I started my podcast and did all the things . I've done my pictures about five times , and two of those have been not two of them . One of them was my mom . She took pictures for me . I have this really nice .
I think it's a Nokia Canon . I don't remember it was a , no , it was a Fuji Tech . So Fuji Tech , it was one that we had gotten at Sands or Costco , like several years ago , and it was one that it takes really good pictures , but I just didn't know how to take really good pictures .
I didn't know what poses to take , I didn't know what to what we were doing . I didn't even know the lighting wasn't great , let's just call it out like that . I didn't have ring lights , I didn't have a bunch of other things , so that was one of them that was thrown in there .
Another one was I found someone who was recommended to me to take pictures and they had a small photography business , but they weren't like established . So someone that like hey , I do this on the side . So that's also an experience that I had when choosing a photographer is like hey , you know , this is someone .
She I don't remember what it paid her , it might have been like $175 or $200 . He actually came to my house and , if you've seen the artwork The Proffitt Podcast , that is where that picture came from . So I don't even remember how many images I got with that very first package , but I took those in 2018 . So be on the lookout .
is getting some rebranding because that picture is over five years old and I'm you know , it's time . It's time for an update for the podcast , but that's what I did is I hired someone that was a friend of a friend , knew someone , and she's the one that took images for my podcast .
So Let me back up for a second , because if you're saying , well , Krystal , why , why do we need Content images ? What are these used for ? So I use my content images for , like I just said , podcast artwork . So if you have not taken some professional photos for your podcast artwork and you want them to be done , I'm actually I want to tell you about Kelly .
So Kelly is someone that she did my pictures in 2020 and she did all of them on her phone . So you don't have to hire someone that has a really fancy camera and all this like really expensive equipment . She did everything on her smartphone in 2020 and those images turned out fantastic .
So if you've ever seen me in that like good vibes Sweatshirt that I have on my Instagram profile , that was from Kelly and that was on a smartphone . So I don't want you thinking that , oh , I only have to hire someone who has an actual camera and has a professional studio . No , you absolutely do not .
But I wanted to share a little bit about how I use my images . So I use them on social , I use them on my website . I am updating my podcast artwork we just talked about that as well as in my content , like headshots . When I'm a guest on someone's podcast , I send them like hey , here's two or three options you can choose from those .
I will use them on my YouTube thumbnails and in other pieces of my content where it makes sense , and on sales pages . So my sales pages and my promotional sequences , I'll have them in there as well . So it's just all sprinkled throughout my content and from time to time I think that it's a good idea to update them . It is absolutely not mandatory .
Okay , this is like above and beyond . So if you're like Krystal I don't have a single budget I have I've dedicated all the personal finances that I can to getting this podcast up off the ground Then that's okay . I hope that this is something that you can aspire to do one day , because , let me tell you , is a ton of fun .
It is a ton of fun Especially when you find a photographer that you have so much fun with , and that is Camille . So let's just dive into how I found Camille . So I have a good friend . So shout out to Anna Agogo . She runs the Adode Media in Atlanta , georgia , and she has a podcast studio .
If you've ever heard of Patrice Washington and her show , this is . She has the Black Pod Festival . She just hosted Anthony O'Neill for Black Pod Fest and she is absolutely incredible . So shout out , anna . We have such a fun connection from back in the day meeting together .
She worked at Buzzsprout for a while and was doing a lot of consulting and helping with them and now she's just freaking amazing and I love all the things that she does . But I was telling her one day I was like Anna , I cannot we do like we talk all the time on Instagram . I was like I cannot find a photographer in Houston . And I was just complaining .
Basically I was venting . I was like I cannot find a photographer in Houston . She was like what are you talking about ? Like here , like here's four different ones . And then she sent me one that her sister had used and I was like , oh , let me go check this out . I hadn't found this one .
And there was a particular type of photographer that lives like in my area that kept showing up every time I would search for Houston photographer . It was people that shot like families and babies . They didn't do lifestyle or blogger podcasts , like they didn't do any of that .
They're like oh , you know , here's the infant package or here's the family holiday pictures . I was like , no , I had a very specific need to have a branding or lifestyle photographer and that's what they needed to have that experience . And I just couldn't find them .
And I recommend this for you too Like , if you're going to look for a photographer , find someone that has experience working with brands , specifically online brands , because they will know what they are doing and they will have that specific eye when you tell them , hey , I need a photo that's slightly offset because I'm going to put some text up here and I want
it to say like congratulations or welcome or whatever . Like , I want to have that . If you tell that to another photographer , they may say , oh , no , but then your image won't be centered . So you need to have someone that has that eye for digital design and different things that you're going to have on your website or your social .
So I'm just throwing that out there , because that's exactly what Camille was . So I was referred to Camille by Anna and it was such a seamless process to reach out and say , hey , I know you through , you know my friend's sister and you know , do you have any time slots open ? And that's going to be like let's do a hard .
Stop there , because I want you to reach out into your network first . This is where I always find the best referrals and I mean , yes , you can Google , you can look on Instagram , you can do hashtags , you can do all those things . But at the end of the day I found Camille because I heard about her from a friend .
So word of mouth marketing is still super powerful . But then from there I went to her Instagram . So I went to her Instagram , I checked her out and I was like , oh my gosh , like I love her images . Oh , she has a website . Let me go to her website .
So I actually you know , if you're watching on the video , I have Camille's website pulled up and I started looking at all of the images . I could see her work and I could see exactly what she was doing . I knew I was like , oh , this is definitely the vibe that I want .
Like she has some shots where I could immediately say this is what I'm looking for or could you do this , but slightly like that and she just had so many great portfolio examples of previous work that she had done , and
¶ Planning a Photo Shoot
because photos are so visual and everybody has their own taste , I definitely recommend you seeing someone's work before you book them , before you put any money down because you want to have like , like , is this my vibe ? Is this what I want to do ? And for me it was .
It was an immediate yes , like , I love the studio , I love the setup , I love the background . And that's another thing to consider too is does your photographer have a studio ? Maybe you want that , maybe you don't . Maybe you want them to come to your house , like .
There were a few photographers that I had found that would travel to my house , but it was an extra $250 or an extra $50 for however many miles extra they had to travel or the time that they had to drive . It's going to be different for everybody , but these are some of the things to consider , so let me back up for a second .
So the first thing is finding a photographer . You need to just ask in your network . The second thing is figure out like , what do you want ? Like , what's the vibe ? Do you want to create ? Like a storyboard or a Pinterest board that has , like oh , these are my favorite podcast artwork that other people have done . I want something like this .
Or I love so and so's website . Can you do some pictures like this ? Or here's an Instagram link like , check these out . These are the types of poses that I want , but have something in mind for either what you really want or what you don't want .
I think it's just as important to say I don't want anything that looks like this , because then you're you're more likely to find a fit for a photographer and what they would be able to deliver for you . So let me go back up and again , if you're watching the video , you can follow along with me . But the other thing I want to talk about is pricing .
So what is your budget ? Obviously , you need to find a photographer that's within your budget . Like you know how much money you can spend . You know if you can pay for the ultimate , like you know , $17,000 package . This is not what it costs to do . But you give what I'm saying .
Like you know , if you have a budget to like , I can only pay someone like $250 for a really awesome headshot . That is all I needed , is all I want . Or if you can splurge a little bit and say , no , I want , like the Rolls Royce package and I want to have , you know , pictures for the next year and a half .
I want to have a ton of pictures , a ton of photos , and I want to be able to use them wherever . So it's a sliding scale on how much you're going to be able to invest in your pictures . But I will say that when you're looking for someone , make sure that they have it very clearly stated how much your , how much the plan will be and how .
What are you getting ? What are you actually getting within that package ?
So I'm not going to go through like everything on this isn't like a critique of Camille's , like all of her stuff , because all of her stuff is awesome , but I am going to put a link to it in the show notes so that you can go check it out , like I highly recommend if you are in the Houston area or even if you want to travel to Houston to work with
Camille . She is incredible , okay , just incredible . I cannot say enough good things about her because , again , she has that eye for what to do in visualization , in branding , and she was just phenomenal . So we talked about pricing options . What's your budget ? How many pictures do you need ?
Are you looking to just update your podcast artwork and you just need that one really good headshot , or are you doing a full brand refresh or revamp of your website and your social and like all the things ? This is actually what I'm in the middle of doing right now .
Ooh , sneak peek like behind the scenes right here , If you're listening that I'm doing a big rebrand in the next few months and I wanted the pictures for it . So it was really important to me that I get these done before the end of the year , and that's just one of the other things I wanted to throw out there .
So I knew I needed a package that accommodated a ton of pictures . I didn't just want one really good picture or five pictures . I wanted multiple pictures and I was willing to invest and pay a higher price tag for that . So we talked about finding a photographer , choosing a package or a location .
Again , with the location , like if your photographer doesn't have a studio and you have a great setup at home , that's fantastic . Have them come to your home . If that's something that they do , you could also do an Airbnb . I know some photographers will do this Some . We have a local place here in my area that rents out like it's a cute town home .
I don't even know if it's a town home , I think it's an actual house that that's all they do is they rent to photographers and so it's decorated for the seasons . It's close to the holidays when I'm recording this , so I'm sure it has Christmas trees and lights and all kinds of things . I didn't want that from our brand , but maybe that's something .
If you want to have like a Easter setup for your brand or you want to have Valentine's Day and they have all that stuff . Like these are things to consider . But just know that location is important and you should think about that or ask that of your photographer . Now , the date when are you going to do this ? How far in advance do you need to plan ?
Again , this will vary depending on your photographer , because Camille and you know she's the one I'm working with she deals with brands . She wasn't booked out months and months in advance during this time of year .
Most photographers will be in October , november , december , because everybody is trying to squeeze in to get like oh , I got to get my family pictures done for our holiday cards , and that's just not the case with someone that's doing personal branding .
They may be busier in other times of the year , whether it's , you know , right around the new years , maybe in the summertime , like there's going to be variations , so just be prepared for that . But one of the things is what ? What do you want ? Or when do you want to take these pictures ? Is it based on a time of year ? Do you want seasonal pictures ?
Does it not even matter , because you're going to be inside , like I was inside , we were in the studio taking these images , but it wasn't in the middle of summer . Oh my gosh , especially this last summer . It was so freaking hot in Houston , so I can only imagine if it would have been August and it's 107 outside and it's like , oh my gosh , I'm sweating .
But I had this really cute sweater that I wanted to wear and I'm like sweating through it . You can see the beads like coming down .
Like this is a perfect time of year for me because I mean , I was changing outfits , I was doing a lot , I was running around during the whole thing , but because we were indoors and it wasn't super hot outside , I was really comfortable doing all that .
So just consider that when you're thinking about the date and then the other thing is what is personally going on in your life , and use that to really help you select which date . Now I'm going to go into like really behind the scenes here . Ladies , are you going to be on your period when you're scheduling this ? I know the guys are just like shut down .
They're like , oh , that's my cue to leave . But I'm being serious , because last year I intentionally scheduled my shoot dates for a time when I knew for sure . I was like nope , I'm going to be like in peak confidence , I'm going to feel good about myself and I'm going to be like , yes , like I got this . Let me hit that power pose . This is incredible .
This year not so much it was not the best time for me . It was that time where I'm like okay , I started and I have a little bit of acne . I'm like super bloated . I was like I need to wear two pairs of Spanx because I just felt so . Just , I wasn't as confident . But I looked at my calendar and I was like this is the only date that works for me .
It's going to have to work , and so it's just something to consider , like if you can plan around those things in your personal life . Do it , but just know that it may not always work out .
But I do try to plan around times when I'm feeling so confident about myself or I just know physically I'm going to be in a good state of mind and I'm just going to feel better about myself .
I know it's a silly thing , but it's something that we need to talk about because it is important and it will affect you going into a studio and smiling into a camera for three hours straight and it will affect you .
The other thing is what else is going on in your life , like , are you going to have to go from this photo shoot to an eight year old's birthday party ?
This is another thing I had to do and , because of the planning that we did , it all worked out fine , but I wish that I would have given myself like , really treated the day as like this is a day for me and my business and allowed for a lot more white space of planning the shoot and then , like , having some downtime afterwards , because it is a lot .
If you're doing a three hour photo shoot and you're smiling , your face will hurt afterwards . You're going to feel awkward , you're going to feel vulnerable , like all the things . But yeah , that was just something for me because it just we made it work . We made it work this time .
I will definitely take it in consideration next time of like , okay , when are we actually going to do this ?
And then I wanted to go and tell you , so I created a freebie for today's episode , and this episode was inspired actually by an episode that Amy Porterfield did on the online marketing Made Easy podcast a few years ago , and it was about planning a photo shoot , and I love what she created .
I love what she did , but I wanted to put my own spin on it , and so I created a guide that is all about helping you plan your next photo shoot , and it's a working Google doc . So if you're watching this or if you're listening to it , I want you to go to krystalproffitt . com/photoshoot
¶ Preparing for a Photo Shoot
, because what this is , it is a guide that you'll just go to the page . If you're watching on YouTube , you'll see it says plan your next photo shoot like a pro . Click , grab it now . You'll enter your name and your email address and then it'll take you to this thank you page and then you're gonna get an email that has a link to .
It's a working Google doc . You're not gonna be able to sit here and click in it , you're just gonna be able to view it unless you make a copy . And so what it is is it walks through all the important things we already talked about the date , the time , the shoot purpose , like what are you doing this for ? Is it for your podcast ?
Your website , for marketing ? What is it ? And then it goes into some of the other details for your photographer's information . And then what I loved about the pre-shoot checklist is what do you need to do ?
The week before , the day before and the day of this helped me so much because , again , I wasn't feeling great physically and I was like what do I have to do ? I really don't wanna try on a bunch of outfits , I'm feeling gross , and so it kind of forced me . I was like , no , no , you need to do these things because your photo shoot is coming up .
And so I created this checklist and you can just go once . You have access to this and you can change it to where it says done or not done , and you're able to go in and change things based on what you wanna do for your photo shoot . So the week before .
Let me just go through some of these pre-shoot checklist and all the things that were in here repaint my fingernails . I know that again it sounds like one of those things , but it's one of the things that Camille told me she was like . So many people ignore the fact that people your hands are in so many of the shots . There were a ton .
If you're watching on the video , I'm like I'm holding my cup , I had my hand on my microphone , I had the hand on the desk . I'm so glad she told me that , because this was right after Halloween and I had painted my fingernails black for Halloween , and I don't typically paint my fingernails .
I usually just have a clear coat or they're usually just buffed , and so I was like , oh , I need to do that . So good reminder . I didn't wanna think about it the day of or the day before and still have all that black polish all around my nails , so I did that . The next thing I did the week before was choosing my outfits or go shopping .
Now , this time I knew that I had plenty of outfits already and things that I had used in previous speaking events but hadn't used in photo shoots . That would work well for what I wanted to do . And I mean , let's just be honest , it's not super cheap for the package that I did to get my photos taken .
And I was like I'm gonna invest in the pictures but not in new clothes . Maybe next time I'll invest in less pictures but new clothes . But I'm on a strict budget . Okay , let's just be honest , I like to be on a strict budget with this stuff . But then the day before I packed all of my props so you'll be able to see some of the images soon .
But I took I wish you would have counted them . I think I took 10 to 12 microphones with me , so I packed all those . I packed up some equipment that we could get . It was like behind the scenes . I literally took this boom arm Like my podcast boom arm . I took it all apart . I took my headphones . I took everything . I had a wagon I had .
If you follow me on Instagram , you would have seen I showed like behind the scenes , I'm taking this wagon with me and I like picked the whole thing up , loaded it in my car and I took it to the photo shoot , because that's who I am and I wanted to have all of these props with me .
So I did all of that the day before and the day of I made sure everything was ready to go . Then I made sure that all of my outfits were ready . So this is ironing things . It's putting undershirts and other types of garments together . It's like do I have the right shoes ? Am I gonna be barefoot ? Like what is ? Do I need socks ?
What does this look like ? And then accessories . I also got accessories together . I'm gonna wear rings for this , I'm gonna wear , you know , necklace for that . And then the day of was just doing my hair and makeup and then making sure that I brought all of those things with me in case I needed to do any kind of touch up .
So this is another lesson learned that I really wanna talk about , because the first time I did my photo shoot with Camille , she had someone . It was part of the package . She was like you just come to the studio and someone will do your makeup . You just need to do your hair . I was like awesome , let me get my makeup done . Like I don't .
I mean if you're watching this clearly , you can see like I mean I have on a hat today . Like I'm not someone that does a ton of makeup , a ton of glitz and glamour . It's just not my personality , but I did do that for the first photo shoot .
I did the fake eyelashes , I did tons of makeup it was very heavy makeup and as soon as I got home , my husband and my boys were like whoa , I walk in the door and they were like what's going on ? I was like what ? Like okay , like you know , is it that ? Is it that noticeable ? And they were like you don't look like you Like at all .
And it really stuck with me and it was like oh my gosh . I showed the pictures to my mom and she was like oh yeah , like you know how , when someone's trying to not be rude , but they're also trying to get like , these
¶ Planning a Photo Shoot
look great . And you're like is that a question mark on the end of that ? So it didn't feel like a compliment . And so what I learned ? And I had this conversation with Camille . So this is why I talked about earlier about having that rapport with working someone . More than once I was very honest with her .
I was like hey , camille , I love the shots that we did last time . The only thing that I want to change is I don't want to have someone else do my hair and makeup this time , or my makeup , because I did my own hair last time as well . It's like I want to do my own . And she was like , oh my gosh , like you know , did you not like what we did ?
And I was like , no , it's nothing against the makeup artist or anything Like . It just wasn't me and I want to look like me in these photos . And I get it . I get that . You want the more pronounced . I wasn't cheerleading .
I understand you want to have big lips , you want to have the glitter on your eyes , like all the things that we did for cheerleading competitions , but that's not me and I wanted it to really reflect me and I wanted to feel so proud to share all these images because I knew they were going to turn out awesome and I'm so glad that I voiced my opinion on
that . So if you're working with someone and you have very strong opinions about the outfit that you want to wear or the pose that you want , whatever it is , make sure you explain that to them .
Don't just let the creative person behind the camera get lost in their vision , because , at the end of the day , this is your vision of what you're trying to do for your brand and the different things that you're trying to make come to life for your business , for your audience or for whatever you're creating .
So I just want to throw that out there , like if you feel very strongly about it , write it down and then share that with a photographer , I feel like it comes off . It's a lot softer , collaborative approach when you can have those types of conversations and then have them written in a Google Doc or plan them somewhere .
You can plan it in here , you know , in this doc that I'm sharing , and then send it to them . That way they know what the expectation is and you're not shocked when you see your pictures later and you're like , oh my God , I wish I would have said something I wish I would have you know , spoken out about .
You know , this is the type of thing that I wanted , but it's definitely a conversation to have . Now I'm just going to run through the rest of this real fast , because you can go through this whole thing again . Go to to download this Google Doc and you can work through the whole thing for yourself .
But I want you to think about what types of pictures you're going to take . So does it need to be casual ? Is it your podcast cover , is it professional or is it something that's fun and celebrating ? And then you can kind of categorize the outfits , the accessories , the shoes , like all the things that you need to have to make that happen .
And then I just put some check marks for is this done ? Is it not done so that you can familiarize yourself with this form whenever you're able to use it ? And then the last thing is the shot list .
Now , the shot list isn't all encompassing of everything that you would do , but I did like giving you these ideas because it's what I used and it's some of the things that I've done in the past to have some of my pictures done so , celebrating with confetti or balloons , looking down and thinking I'm frustrated , I'm excited , I'm leaning in with my headphones , I'm
journaling with coffee , like I mean , you can download this and like go through all of these . But the reason why I had these was because I looked at my website and I said you know what this is missing a picture of someone frustrated . And this is missing someone that is excited , with balloons in the background because they're celebrating .
Or I just I want to , you know , capture journaling with my coffee , because it's what I do every single day . So think about your own brand and think about what you want to convey through your images , and those are the types of things that you need to have in your shot list so that you can make it come to life .
And then , over on the right , I have like how you're going to use the photo . Just to give you some ideas , is it going to be for your website , for marketing or social , your podcast , or you can
¶ Gratitude for a Photographer's Generosity
always change it to whatever else that you want to use it for . But I think it's really awesome that you can categorize things this way so that you can know . Okay , I have some for each of the categories and I know that I'm getting all of the different things that I need for this photo shoot .
And then , lastly , at the bottom , you'll find a place to put all the props that you want to take . You know , I had a pen , I had all my microphones , I had my journal , my ring light , coffee mugs , my camera , like I did , all the things that I would need for showing . Hey , I'm a content creator and this is how I create content .
This is what I do , and so I really want you to go grab this freebie Again . Go to . And if you're listening to this in real time , I want you to go check out Camille's website If you live in the Houston area , because she is doing a special for Black Friday , cyber Monday , and I don't want you to miss out .
If you're like Krystal , I just I need a photographer . I'm in Houston , I need a . Go see Camille . I'm going to recommend her over and over again and if you are looking for someone , you're looking for a photographer and maybe you find someone local . You can always share her Instagram and say this is what I'm looking for . Or I want headshots like this .
I want to have content images that do that Like . I want you to use other people's ideas for inspiration for what you can do as well . But today's episode was so fun . I like jotted down all of these ideas and they all came out of me and I was like I have to talk about this because it was so much fun .
I cannot wait to share with you the finished product and all the pictures that we took because we had so much fun . The last thing I'll say is music oh my gosh , find a photographer that brings a Bluetooth speaker wherever they are and jams out like puts on Afro beats . I think we listened to Beyonce last time .
We listened to some classical music there for a little bit and it was just so much fun . It was so much fun . So thank you so much , camille , for all the hard work that you put into my brand session . This is another thing . Oh my gosh , I keep thinking about all the things snacks , take snacks , or find a photographer that gives you snacks .
Because Camille , like she went above and beyond . There was like a charcuterie play . There was , you know , like crackers and cheeses and meats and grapes , and it was delicious and it was exactly what I needed . When I finished the photo shoot , we didn't have a lot of time to snack .
Like I'd grab a cracker here and there when I was changing outfits , but of course I didn't want to like make a whole mess of myself . But as soon as we were done , she was like , oh no , that's for you . Like , take it all .
And I was like , oh my gosh , like she takes pictures of me , she laughs with me and then she feeds me like she's , she's it , like she's the bee's knees , and I'm so grateful that we had so much fun , but that's all I have for you today . So make sure , wherever you are listening or watching , that you subscribe or follow the podcast and let me know .
Like what else do you want to hear from behind the scenes of my business , my content strategy , podcasting , marketing ? Let me know , I would love to hear from you , but , as always , remember , keep it up . We all have to start somewhere .
