We are breaking records today. Okay, maybe not world records or anything that you're going to go brag to your friends and family about, but it's something that I'm pretty dang proud of. We have a three time recurring guest on the show today. Yes, yes, yes. And she is one of my favorite people in the entire world. And I am just so blessed to call her, my friend. So today on the show, we have Mary Kay saying in y'all, she's bringing the fire. Oh, my gosh, this conversation took so many different
turns that I had not expected. And it's just so good. It's so so good. So we're not going to wait any longer. Let's get right to it. Welcome to the profit podcast where we teach entrepreneurs how to start launch and market their podcast. I'm your host, Krystal, Proffitt, and I'm so excited that you're here. Thanks for hanging out with me today. Because if you've been trying to figure out the world of podcasting, think of this show as the
time saving shortcut you've been looking for. So let's get right to it, shall we?
I feel like today's guest like needs no introduction, because she has been on the podcast before and she is the first person to be on this podcast for the third time. Yes, that goes back to the rule. The rule breaking No, we're not trying to break any rules. I was talking about, like crushing goals and like smashing, smashing all kinds of things here because I'm just so excited that she agreed to come on the show again today. Because it's been a while I was like, Oh my
gosh, like it's been since January of 2020. Since you were on the show, and we had like just a fantastic catch up. So I'm gonna link in the show notes to previous episodes that I've done with Mai-Kee. But if you haven't listened to it's Episode 77, where we talked about how to be a guest on other podcast. And then we did a follow up to that episode, Episode 119 guesting on podcast and it was the follow up to the incredible conversation. But just to kind of recap real fast,
Mai-Kee and I crossed paths in 2019. And we actually met in person and it was just so magical. So fun. We have just shared so many incredible conversations about visibility and people sharing like their important messages. So we just have this really deep connection we say like, she's the peanut butter to my jelly and we talk about in here by the way, I'm the peanut butter, she's the jelly or the jam. You'll understand that reference
in a second. But for those of you that have not listened to those episodes, go check them out after this, but I'm gonna give you a brief overview of who Mai-Kee saying really is and why you need to know her and follow her because she is incredible. She's a podcast guesting strategist in
the sustainable visibility mentor. She helps introverted and empathic entrepreneurial leaders feel safe in the spotlight when they guest on aligned podcast so that they can become sustainably visible to grow their business for the long haul. And y'all we just had so many incredible conversations about things that neither one of us had ever planned on talking about on a
podcast. And what's really crazy about this conversation is, we recorded this before, all of the tragic events happen in Atlanta, and the Asian hate movement really took off. And I just feel so blessed to have a friend who was already starting these types of conversations before anything like before, it was really in the spotlight in the media to be talked about. She has been working on these things behind the scenes, and I am just so
proud to call her my friend. She's doing awesome incredible things for the Asian community that I cannot wait to share with you. And just just this episode was just incredible. So enjoy this conversation with my girl Mai-Kee. Alright, Proffitt Podcast listeners. I am Extra extra excited today because today's guest like we are breaking records here because she is the first person to be on the podcast for the third time. So uh, welcome to the show, Mai-Kee.
Oh, Krystal, I have missed you so so much. And I'm so honored that I'm the first guest to have been on your podcast three times. And it's also the first time I've ever been on a podcast three times. I think. It's like I was gonna say virginity. He broken off. You know what I mean?
Anyway, it's better than that. Like we it's like we've taken our relationship like to the nth level of just like, I mean, obviously, we love each other so much. And this is so fun to be able to talk with. I mean, it's the peanut butter to the jelly of podcasting. Like, hang on, if we ever decide who's the peanut butter and who's the jelly?
Yeah, you're the peanut butter. I'm the jelly. Okay, I can't remember why.
I love peanut butter.
Yeah, that's why you called this, this. It's okay. I like jelly. So we call it jam. There we go.
Oh, my gosh, well, I'm so excited. So we were talking about you know, the, the first two times that make hay was on the show. And I actually have like, I have it all written down. All this is going to be in the show notes. But the first time was in August of 2019, where we talked about, you know how to be a guest on podcast. And then in January of 2020, it was kind of the follow up because Mai-Kee Tsang had been on the show she had pitched over 100 101. Exactly.
Listen to that episode and hear the whole backstory to that. But then she came back on the show and shared her experience. So I just want to dive right into what's been the one thing that you're most excited about right now, as it pertains to podcasting and your podcast journey.
I am just so excited that so many people are finally seeing the beauty of this strategy. And I will talk about holes in the industry and all that stuff in just a minute. But what I really love is that some people are really taking it seriously that it is a true way that they can start amplifying their voice and make really deep, meaningful connections. And it's just kind of like it's still in its infancy stage in
the grand scheme of things. Right. And I just love that it's becoming more and more normalized to think of guesting on podcast as a way to grow your business. Yeah.
Oh my gosh. I mean, I'm imagining you telling somebody two years ago what you did, and then looking at you like, wait, what can you explain it? And then now you're like, Is it a lot easier to explain what you do to someone who maybe never heard of exactly how you strategize with podcast guesting?
Yeah, that's that's precisely it. Because when I did that one on one challenge back in July 2019. That was a time when like podcast guest, it was like, What was that? I've heard of it. I've haven't really seen anybody do it apart from if I can spend an arm and a leg every single month for PR agency. I mean, how does the normal person do it? Like who isn't able to? Or doesn't want to invest in that much, right. So yeah, I think it's becoming more and more normalized,
which I absolutely love. Because it's, it's my number one strategy that I personally love. And it's sustainable for me personally, because I know that the strategy aligns with my energy type. it aligns with my human design, it aligns with my just how I love showing off my audience and how they like to consume content. So it's just yeah, if anything, the best thing is becoming more normalized.
Yeah. Oh, my gosh, I love I love the perspective of you know, like I said, like, she's the jelly to my peanut sorry, she's the jam
to my letter. Because I mean, it's just I love geeking out and nerding out like about everything to do with podcasting, but podcast guesting is something that I personally haven't done, a lot of, I haven't put a ton of energy behind it, because part of my strategy has been so much about the content creation, that I'm just now looking at opportunities to really guest on shows I've kind of established a name for myself and what I do now, so I feel like the opportunity is greater,
but if somebody's listening, and they're like, I wouldn't even know where to get started, like where, what kind of advice would you give to someone who is looking at getting started with guesting, but they're super intimidated. They're very intimidated right now.
Absolutely. So the number one thing that you need to remember because a lot of people get tied up in like, Am I an expert enough to be able to do this. So I want to share this concept I like to call the credibility coin. So coins have two sides to them, right? So if you have one side, that's great if you have both even better. So the first side of the credibility coin is professional
credibility. So these are the things where maybe you have studied a certain topic at university or maybe not even University, maybe you have a diploma that didn't require you to go to university, or is it a certification that you have whatever it is some sort of formal qualification that counts as the size of the of the professional credibility coin. What also goes there is the results that you get for your clients. Right. So that is like how you've obtained your expertise in
that sense. But I find that it often stops there. Normally, it feels very one sided this credibility. So that's where we slipped to the other side of the coin, which is your personal credibility. And what this is all about is actually living, breathing, embodying everything that you're teaching your clients. And I find that sometimes in the industry, there are many people who are satisfied as a particular, they do all the things for their clients, because they've
prioritized their clients. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It's beautiful, it's wonderful. But I find that the one that be even better if you live your process, and it's reflected in your own business. That's what I mean, when it comes to personal credibility is that you have results for yourself. And unlike many of my peers, who also do podcast guessing for their clients, well, I don't pitch my clients
anymore. I teach more people. But my point is that on their websites, they say, I have 10 years of experience in PR. And then I thought to myself, so do I need to wait another eight years before I feel worthy? No, definitely not. Because I had a personal credibility. First, I did that challenge, I got the results myself, then I started to see all these results actually repeatable with other
people in different industries. So I started testing it out with a couple of clients who want who were open to see if like, if I could write a pitch for them if they get responses. And lo and behold, the results were consistent. So that's what you need to think about. Like, do you have both sides of the credibility coin? Like, it's, it's okay to have one, that I think it's even more powerful when you have both.
That's so good. That's so helpful to think about it that way. And I'm, I'm thinking of a personal example for me, you know, because people often, so many people are like, Krystal, I don't understand how you put out this much content and you're doing you know, you have YouTube and you have podcasts, you have a daily
podcast, like, why do you do this? And you know, if I'm being totally honest, a part of that was that credibility factor of feeling like, Well, I haven't been doing this as long as other podcast experts that are out there. However, if like, now, I've been doing this, I feel like it's been decades podcasting. And it's funny, because it hasn't been that long. But it's been such a fun ride. And I enjoy it. So so much. And for me, like I could actually put on my website, that I've done
more than 480 podcast episodes at this point. And that blows my own mind. I'm like, oh, is Is this right? But if I look at all of it, you know, like what you were saying, you know, if you look at someone's website, and you see like, this is the credibility, then it's like, oh, I think that I could like go work with her and go do this. So that's the reason why I asked a question about guesting because I think that so many people get caught up in this mindset of like, do I really?
Should I do this for eight more years? Or do I need to have like, go get four or five certifications just to meaningful podcast? Like I see this all the time in what you just said is so so brilliant, because it's what can you talk about really well, that will actually help people. And we're going to get into this in a little bit like, what it is and what you can actually do for other
people. That is very important. But I think that it's important to realize that, y'all, if you're listening to this podcast, you have so much to share all of us as human beings, we have messages, we have experiences, we have journeys that we've gone on. And I promise you, there are people out there that can benefit from your story. So I felt like that was like a soapbox moment, I needed to just like get that off my chest. But there's so much that we all have to share. So I don't know.
Did you have anything else to add to that?
Well, I'm totally there with you with the whole female. I feel like I'm professional enough that along as long as I can uphold my own experience and to draw from that. I can't, I can't skip ahead eight years. So I get that that magical 10 and I don't I don't know if I'm gonna do this precise work in the exact same way in 10 years. very unlikely. But there's one thing I did want to share about the number of
years to this really helped me very early on. So shout out to one of my mentors, Rob Marsh, who helped me with this because I shared this very same concern. I met him when I was product 23 and then I I shared like, Oh, I don't have 10 years of copywriting in me, am I gonna be okay to charge 1000s of dollars for this work, because I can get results, but I don't have those years of experience to back me up. And he said, making the
thing with you is that you grow very fast. So fast, sometimes to the point where the people who have been in business in 10 years that they look to you, and thank them, I wish I could do that. Because there is this safety in a sense. Maybe it could be somewhat complacency as well, where people just stop there, the fact that they've been in it for 10 years. But what Rob said to me was like, someone can have the same experience for 10 years in a row. You have different experiences
every single year, multiple times a year. And that's what makes you credible. And ever since then, whenever I see someone's in 10 years, I'm like, great. That's amazing for you. I'm glad someone is because I probably won't be that's what helps a lot of Mic drop. Yeah.
Like, you know, like, well, and but it's but it's so good to, you know, you know, to receive that compliment. That's what I see that as like a compliment as like, you know, you don't stay the same. You're not just, you know, you're not in a corporate job working showing up at the same cubicle every single week. And then like banging your head against the wall saying, Why am I still here doing this? You're saying, what sounds fun this year? Like, what? What is the
thing that I want to chase? And that's just, I mean, this is my outside perspective, looking in, and all the amazing things that you've done. You're just like, how can I help people and have a lot of fun doing it? And then, like, I don't see, I haven't seen you, you know, we've known each other for two plus years at this point. And just to have seen your journey, I never look at her and say she looks bored. Or she just looks like she's
not having fun in what she's doing. So are you just having fun,
I am having fun. I just had a come pletely like new idea. today. I'm thinking about representation when with regards to women of color, for example. And I'm focusing specifically on East, East Asian, you know, entrepreneurs like, because some people actually don't resonate with that term. And I want to understand why. So I want to expand the perspective of inclusivity of what it means to be a woman of color, because I'm
personally quite fair skinned. So sometimes I'm actually not considered as a woman of color, even though I am. But I'm already thinking of putting a little survey to gather some research to actually see Is there something that needs to be said about this term, but that's a whole different thing.
But our listeners, because maybe there's somebody that's listening, that's like, Oh, that's me. But if someone's like, wondering what is what is the term East Asian mean to you? Can you explain that to
us? Yeah, I think because my mental like she lovingly called me out on this when I said that only one other Asian person on her sales page, apart from myself. And then she corrected me as she was right. She's like, oh, there's also so and so and so and so. And then it clocked on to me that Oh, wait, all this South Asian, they're still Asian? Of course they are. But in my head, in my upbringing, my family whenever we say Asian, we
mean fellow Chinese people. We mean, be more are who are Japanese, or Korean or Vietnamese Philippine, Filipina Filipino? You know, there are so obviously there's much more than that. But I've stopped. I've just noticed I've had some of these private conversations. And I asked him, like, do you resonate with this? And then they're almost ashamed to say no, that I should feel like I am. But I don't feel like it. And I want to understand
why. Because I noticed that there has been a huge shift, which I'm so grateful to see, ever since the Black Lives Matter movement, everyone has been a lot more consciously aware of who they're putting on their platforms, the kind of people they're having on their podcast on the summit's the virtual events. And so I've noticed there's definitely been an an uprise in diversity there for sure. However, when I see I noticed there's almost no or maybe one if I if we're lucky, East
Asian on that. And so I was just curious to understand, and then this this whole conversation about model minorities, kind of like how when I look at my own upbringing, for example, my parents, I lead this very recently, so it's actually quite an endearing reason, but it's also very heartbreaking at the same time that I don't speak fluent Chinese. And the reason why is because I grew up in North Devon, which is a part in the countryside in England here in the UK. And
there was little to no diversity whatsoever. And my dad said, almost apologetically, in the last couple of months, he said, Your mom and I, we didn't want to teach you because we didn't want to give anyone else a reason to pick on you, because you were different. They already knew that you that you different because of how you look, we didn't want you to sound any different to give
them any other ammunition to use against you. And that broke my heart to think that my parents I fought so far ahead to try and prevent any unnecessary pain at school. And my sister and I, we did get bullied quite badly. Actually, it could be for many reasons that we know that racist, definitely one of them. But yeah, I started to understand why. And then I've just been recently
reading a lot. And when it comes to the model, minority thing, we don't speak up when something's wrong, because we're taught to stay quiet, don't be a burden, don't cause a fuss. So no one would actually know that something's up because we don't say it. We're trained not to, conditioned not to even. But with the escalation of anti Asian racism, specifically for East Asians, because of COVID. People are using their prejudice against us. And the violence has escalated rapidly, and
it's breaking my heart into pieces. And that's where this all coming about, really. And if anyone asked me, Why do you guest on podcast, yeah, to share value 100%. I recently had someone say to me, she's also East Asian herself. And she said, What is it like for you to be one of the few Asian women who are being represented. And that really shook me to my core. And I realized that I have a responsibility each of us have has a
responsibility, understanding who we stand for. I stand for women, and then for anyone on the LGBTQ queue, but it LGB TQ II plus community getting longer and longer. entrepreneurs, anyone who has been in a sexually abusive relationship or just abuse, I think of everyone I'm standing for. And that's what we all need to be aware of as well, I think, do you realize like, Who are we telling that things are possible? Because we've made it? So that that went on quite the tangent that I
didn't think I love it. Yeah,
I feel like, there was somebody like someone is listening right now that needed to hear everything that you just said, because I kept thinking, wow, that's all I kept thinking is Wow, wow, wow. Because y'all, this right here. Everything that make cages shared is the reason
why podcasting is so special to me. It's why I because at the end of the day, it's not about me, it's not about make a it's not about either one of us, it's about us sharing stories and our experiences to help other people, right, make a didn't just sit there and say, you know, these are my experiences, I want you to understand everything that I'm saying that's coming out of my mouth, is she's curious. And she wants to know, how does this affect other people? And how can I
help them? And I mean, yeah, that's totally not where I expected any of this conversation to go today. But Holy moly, like, this is just like it's blowing my mind. Because this is I know that there are several people probably that heard everything that you just said and said, Oh, my gosh, this is exactly what I needed to hear today. So thank you so much for sharing that.
Thank you for providing the safe space to share it. My heart is bursting out of my chest right now both out of gratitude, and I'm gonna go to set out.
This is a safe space. Yeah, this is absolutely safe space. But also, I think that that's to go back to why I podcast, like my whole reason. And I've done I've done podcast episodes about this. I've talked about this before, but it's what I call the ripple effect of podcasting. It's because you and I are having this conversation right now is just a drop in the bucket. Right? It is one small conversation, but we just never know how much it could ripple out.
Someone could hear exactly what you just said, and change their own perspective of how they show up in their life every day or have a conversation with someone in their family that they feel more open about, because you shared your story and you shared your experience and that like, I can't even like let my mind like go there, or my heart go there. Because I would just be in a puddle for days just bawling my eyes out saying, Oh my gosh, like, this is why I do what I do. Because it is
that important. And I think that it's so special, that you shared that here with us and that you are doing these things that matter so much. It's not just about being a guest on someone show, it's about showing up. So other people know that their voice is important to be heard. And it is important for them to show up and to be brave, even if you feel like your heart's gonna be out of your chest. And you're like, did I did I say that was I supposed to say that, but I don't know. But
it felt good. And I just I know, I want to keep moving forward. Like, these are the things that I'm just I'm so grateful that you're here. I'm so grateful that we have created this friendship that's lasted. And it's I mean, we can just nerd out together on all the things so I'm so grateful that you're here.
Oh, so we're not even at the end here. But I'm so grateful to be here. Thank you, thank you for I I truly mean it from the bottom of my heart that is now back in my chest. felt like it was coming out. I it means I can't even put into words how much it means to be able to say that without feeling like, I need to hold my breath. like Oh, is that okay? Because my me my immediate trained response is to zip it. Don't talk about anymore shrink. But you are like no,
let let yourself expand girl. I'm here for
Bring it here. Bring it here, girl. I'm like, y'all, I hate the one thing that I wish podcasting has or had was I need a hug and like, be able to just like reach you this screen and hug you right now. Cuz that's all I want to do. Oh my gosh, I'm just I, I love you so much. And I'm just so excited that we can share these important messages with everybody that's
listening. But also people that will hear this in the future because I know that there's going to be someone that said, Wait, maybe it was on the podcast before. Let me go back and hear what she had to say. And then there's going to be someone listening, you know, six months from now and say, Oh my gosh, like this is so good. This information is fantastic. And we need to just carry on the conversation of talking about representation and inclusivity and all the incredible things that you
shared. So oh my gosh, well, we are going to switch gears because I like I said I was like I don't even know where to go from here. It's just no great. There's not like a fancy like beautiful segue other than if we keep going down this rabbit hole. We're both going to be in tears.
And yeah, I I think I was probably like two sentences away from welding. So yeah, let's switch gear.
switch gears, because, but it's still gonna be an emotionally charged conversation because make I asked me before we started recording, she was like, Can I say the word pissed off?
I don't say that stuff a lot, by the way...
Can I talk about what really pisses me off? That is what this episode is for today. So yes. Okay. So to give a little backstory, when I asked Mai-Kee, I was like, You know what, it's been too long. I need you to come on to the podcast. And we said, well, what should we talk about? And we both know that podcasting has grown your podcast like specifically as you you being a podcast host for the quiet rebels. We haven't even talked about that. She's the quiet
rebels podcast, and that has grown. And with that, and what you do in your business, podcast, pitching has grown. And I said, Can we please please, please talk about the do's and the don'ts and the like, where people are missing the mark, with podcast pitching. So we're gonna start from the top, I want you to tell me what pisses you off about podcasts, which is that you get because I'm going to share mine too.
Okay, so that's actually funny enough. This links back to my recent reflections on the microaggressions that have happened in my school years, especially when it comes to my name. So very, very quick story, and then I'll jump into that point. In my French class, I had a best friend. She's also Chinese. The rest of the class was, I'd say 90%, Caucasian, so white, and the other remaining economy remember what's percentage I said, basically, everyone else, we were people
of color. So we're all girls of color because it's an all girls school. And so my friend She read, she remembered everyone else's names. But she didn't remember my name properly, nor my best friend. So she merged our names together. And then she said it that as a fun thing that, oh, I think you're met or whatever. And then we took it as a joke at the time. But when I look back in retrospect, I'm like, so you're telling me that we look so alike? Which we did not look alike? Like,
yes, we have black hair. Yes, we're obviously you know, Asian, Chinese in particular. Yeah, that's obvious. But other than that, we actually had nothing in common in regards to our physical traits. I was taller than her, my friend was a lot thinner than me, she was much more fair skinned. We had different eye shapes, different face shapes, all this other stuff. And I was like, so you're telling me that you're telling that we look so similar? that we're not worth remembering?
Really, you remember everyone else, even though actually the group of girls, you know, the popular girls, right? When they have the exact same hairstyles, they have the exact same makeup, they have the exact same, I don't know, just accessories, whatever. They're all so similar. And they sit in a group, but you remember all of their names perfectly fine, all about me. And that leads me into what pisses me off is when it's different. If someone doesn't know how to pronounce my name.
In my opinion, I think they should, because if they're trying to be on my podcast, they should reference My name at some point. And if I don't know how to pronounce his name, I find out I literally asked people, if I'm meeting them for the first time, how do I pronounce your name? Leave me a voice note. So I can play it over and over. So I know how to pronounce it in how you'd like it to be pronounced. When people say hi, and
nothing, or Hi, Mai-Kee. Hey, Mai-Kee, or whatever, like Mai-Kee is a is a special nickname that only a few people can say. But they get my name wrong. And it doesn't make sense to me Krystal because my name is written in the email address that emailing me. How can you miss that? I don't understand. And it pisses me off because lazy is on my is on my podcast, wherever you listen to the podcast if they even listen to it. My name is right there. It's on my website. Yes,
right there. So you bet your honeybuns I get really pissed off. If someone gets that wrong. It doesn't matter the rest of the pitch if their pitch was so good. I wouldn't know. Because as soon as I did that mistake, delete. No. Don't even deserve a response.
Oh my gosh. Okay, so I wish they could see you could see her face because she is legit. But it's funny because Okay, so I told her I was like, okay, you share yours, and I'm gonna share mine. The top three, my top three are no name, misspelling my name and calling me the wrong name.
Oh, yeah.
Well, I'm like, a real deep level like, y'all. These are basic things. Basic look, like Mai-Kee said. It's on her website. It's on her podcast. If you Google her, it is the first thing that pops up. And don't know, don't sit there and say, Well, I didn't know how to spell it. It is right there. Right. They're like, and this is like, I'm sure you experienced this so much more because you have a hyphenated like you have a hyphen in your name. And so I'm sure people
get that wrong a lot more. And maybe, or maybe not, you give them more grace. But I see my name misspelled all the time. All the time. It's with the sea. It's with like, just super weird spellings. And I'm like, like you said, my email address has my name in it. What are you looking at? What are you doing people like we're both on our soap boxes now. We're unleashing on y'all. You asked, we're telling you get someone's name,
right? Get their name, right. This is so important, because you just heard make a She's not even read the rest of your pitch you She didn't even see the second sentence because she's like, you didn't even take the time. That's really what I feel like somebody's throwing like a glass of water in your face. Because it's like, you didn't even take the time to get my name. So how do I even know what kind of value you're putting into
your pitch? Or how much that you actually care about my show or my audience are helping to serve the people in my community? Maybe you do, but I don't see any of that because you can't even get my frickin name right.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. So when people are like, what, like, how do you write a great pitch? I emphasize this so much. And like, Look, this should be obvious, but clearly, it's not obvious enough. It is not common sense. Apparently, it's Uncommon Sense, right? That aim correctly and pronounced that correctly when you meet them. Like on a zoom call, whether it's preliminary call or
the actual interview itself. Do your research, listen to their their podcast because they will say with your host, Krystal Proffitt with your host make a second. You know,
you're bringing up this rage in me that I'm like, you know, and it was funny because I had all I had called pet peeves. I have my notes in front of me, I called it pet peeves, but then you were like, you don't really pisses me off. It really pisses me off to and I don't normally say that a lot either. But, like, there, it's like really grinds my gears, you know, I'm
just like, oh, it drives me crazy. But the second one is, the one that really like will get almost always like, I mean, there's a very, very small percentage of people that it will actually come full circle, and we end up to be a great connection is writing a book, in an email that is just like, it's not it's just words, it's so many words, there's no formatting, there's just sentence after sentence, because I'm busy, you're
busy. And I know everybody is busy, I don't have time to read a 3000 word email that's explaining how incredible you are. I don't even know what all it says. Because like my case said, it's probably going in the trash or just going going to go and read completely. So how do you feel about longer emails?
So I, my primary method is warm, cold pitches and long form? Because this question came up a lot when I, when I used to be a copywriter, right, it's like, as long better than short form isn't short, most will say yes, short is absolutely the same. But the only reason why people get pissed off with long emails is because they don't make it interesting. So I think it's actually not a matter of like that, I think, yeah,
3000 word is definitely overkill. But so long as there's formatting, and I just, it's a big block of text. No, that is so overwhelming for the eyes. So recently, when I ran my ultimate podcast guessing workshop, there was a bonus call where a couple of people could send in their pitches for reviews. And one of them I mentioned the importance of formatting. That means breaking up your text, and using bold and italics as well,
just to keep the eye interested. So Laura Bell gray calls them like was it road bumps, that they're reading road bumps, you want people to be able to stop and pay attention to things that really matter in that email. So that could be like, here's the summary of the of how this conversation can go. bullet point bullet point bullet point, just the formatting alone. I'm wanting to talk about the content. I'm talking about the context of delivery here. That is
extremely important. And of course, the content is going to matter as well.
Yeah, but no, you're absolutely right. So now like, let me let me like reverse everything I just said, because that's exactly what I'm talking I'm talking about the unformatted not interesting, like they start off like, because I have gotten a few longer pitches that like right from the get go that maybe they have a copywriter. Maybe they have someone that's like they're gifted in this area. But as soon as they're like, Are you looking for someone that does blah, blah, blah?
And I'm like, Ah, yes, that's me, you know? And they're like, Well, you know, it has, is your audience going to be interested in this? And I'm like, Yeah, they will. And then it just keeps going down. And like I'm drawn to read the entire email, even if it is a longer one, because like you said, they've concentrated on the podcast, I've concentrated on that copy that they know will
resonate with me as the host. And it's not something that's just kind of, like schlepped together as like, Oh, you know, this is a template, I'm just gonna send it out to, you know, 1000 people and hope that I get a yes. Which, by the way, it's terrible strategy. Don't do that. Go, go. Let's go learn from aka please. And she will tell you the proper way to do this. Do not do that. But, um, but yeah, that's another one. Do you have another one? I could keep going down my
list. Do you have another? Don't for pitching you specifically, not just something you would teach your your clients and members of your community, but do you have something that you're just like, oh, if I see this one more time.
Okay. So there is a right and wrong way, in my opinion, and in my experience, for doing a podcast tool for your new book. So I think it's incredible when people because I struggle with writing long blog posts, let alone a book like Took it in my future, but not now. But I think there's definitely a right and wrong way to do it. So the right way, is like understanding how your book connects to the purpose of the podcast and how it's going to be an again, it's all leads
back to value and relevancy. That's all. That's all it is. So that's wonderful, right? But the thing that PSB is when people use that as, like, a virtual business card, in a sense, and it comes from very self serving place, is literally like, Hey, I just wrote a book on x y, Zed, I'm the expert, you're gonna be so lucky. If I can talk about this on your podcast, where do I sign up is literally, I've literally received a pitch like
that. And it was through, like not to say that the problem pitching via DMS, because I got this on Instagram. But clearly it was mass sent. And it's incredibly self serving. So if you have a book, if you have a program that you want to see, or actively promote, make sure that you adapt it. So it's still relevant and valuable for that audience. Like, yeah, we all know that, you want to get your book out there, you know, we want to get on those top sellers, that's completely fine.
But if you had to choose between service and self importance, you can absolutely still have self importance in the formula, but do not lead with it lead with satisfies self important second.
So this is why we get along so well. Because this is like our like, through line of our values like and this is never changed, like we've both felt this way. From the very first time we ever talked, we always lead with value. Always, always always, because at the end of the day, people are gonna like who they like, right? Like, maybe you're listening to us right now. And you're
connecting with us. And you know, we hope that you are but at the end of the day, if you're not, that's also Okay, that's also like totally fine. If you're like, I just don't feel like this person is going to be for me. So don't worry about the audience like worry about like nitpicking like, every single person out of the audience, you want to just show up and serve whether anyone ever buys anything from you, they buy your book, they buy your program, you want to show up because as a
host. I mean, and I don't want to speak for you. But that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for someone to show up to serve my audience, like, hopefully teach us something new, why Dallas, tell us a funny story. You just relate to us in some way. Because that's going to go so much further in, obviously make a she's here for the third time sharing her genius because she shows up and she serves every single time that she comes on to this podcast. So I totally agree with everything you just said.
Thank you, I'm glad to have that affirmed. I really like that. I think there's so many things that we could talk about. And I think what it really boils down to is pretty much what we said that to make it extremely memorable. I call it the PR method. And no, that doesn't stand for public relations. It does in some contexts, but not in this one. This is what I teach people over and over and over again. But this is all you need to remember. I promise is personalization, relevancy. That is it.
It's so good. It's so good. And I'm thinking of it's funny, because I don't remember which podcast episode it was. But two things just popped into my head. Exploding Kittens. Because you talked to him about that. Yeah, he didn't accuse me of animal if you make a weed. You're like, no, it's a card game. We had to talk about it. Oh, I forgot what the second thing was. That was the number one thing that I just thought of. But as soon as you said
personalization, that's what it was. And that was something that you were like, Oh my god, they really resonated with the host that you said that to get. They were like, Wait, what? Like, they probably stop their scroll mid sentence. And they're like, Did she just say, Does she reference Exploding Kittens? Like, either they know you or they're like, Oh, you like you get me like you understand my show and who I am. And so, you know,
I've still never played the card game. I've seen it at Target many times.
I have pet cats. I would never want to actually explode kittens that would that no, no, no. It's a card game. It's a card game.
So funny, but it goes back to personal Okay, y'all. I've never played this game. She told me this. I think this was in our first episode actually. So this more than two years ago, you told me that story. And it has stuck in my brain because it was so it was I don't see that like and it wasn't even a pitch to me. It was a
pitch that she used to someone else. So personalization matters relevancy, and I don't know what we'll have to talk about that the context of the relevancy for But I just go back to the personalization is so important making it about the audience making it about serving the host and their community is so important. And that's actually one of the next one that I was going to tell you. The thing that pisses me off that's we're just gonna go with it is not aligning
who you are as a potential guest. And what you do with our message, and I say, are in the context of being a podcast host, like, maybe you do, maybe you are an author, like Mai-Kee was saying, and you're like, Oh, I want to go on this book tour. If you don't do your research, and you really don't put in the time to understand the audience that you want to potentially speak to. We know. We know what I mean. And we know we can smell it from a mile away when we're just like, a, you're just
being braggadocious on yourself. And we don't have I don't have time for that. I don't have time for you just to come onto my show. And tell me how incredible you are, how amazing you are. And I just I don't have time for that.
So yeah, and which we show you are credible that being credible elsewhere.
Go Go talk on your own platform if you want to do that. But if you're going to come to this space, you better show up with value. You better show up like, obviously get our names right guys like this is just so simple. So so simple. y'all get the name, right. Oh my gosh.
I think the soapbox had to expand it to a full on stage. Not a soapbox, it's a stage.
We're just yeah, we're just sharing the stage passing the mic back and forth. We could do this for hours talking about the do's
and don'ts. But I do want to wrap up this part of our conversation and ask you what you know because we're I don't always like to focus on the negative both of us we we are positive people, but we just felt like they're obviously we needed to get some things off of our chest today about bad pitches, because you've seen it happen to too much with everybody growing their shows knowing that podcast
guesting is a fantastic strategy. And I recommend anybody that's thinking about doing it, go go to make a like, go to her and see all the amazing things that she has. But my last question about pitches is, what is one strategy that you have seen either for yourself or one of your members of your community that is working really well, right now to make a faster connection with the host?
Very good. So I actually have to like, share this inside my ubG workshop as well. And it's the warm versus cold pitch journey. So I literally mapped out a like a sequence between how you can warm up before you even pitch versus when you don't, because yes, you can be successful with cold pitching so long as you do it in a warm manner. So that was my signature process, the things to do to actually connect with the host
before you can leave them a review. I mean, like, I think to myself at home, maybe I should leave more reviews. Right. So this is a work in progress for myself too. But like leaving reviews, because trust me, they read the reviews, no matter how big
they get, they read reviews. And if you are able to screenshot it before you send it in, because it takes a couple of days, sometimes up to a week for a review to actually appear on whichever platform that you're doing on whether it's Apple podcast, or whether it's castbox, wherever screenshot, a post that on Insta, or who wherever your mutual social media platform is. It could be LinkedIn, it could be Facebook, it could be Instagram, tik tok, I don't know. I use Instagram and Facebook groups.
But for the sake of simplicity, I'm going to make Instagram stories. So share that review and tag the host. Tell them why you left review and encourage other people to do that. Because when people see that they're like, oh, wow, Krystal left a review for me and she shared it. So it's not a secret thing. And she's encouraging other people to do it. That's amazing. And just something as simple as you're listening to their podcast anyway. Take a screenshot. post that on
and tag them. And if you do, okay, well, if you do multiple stories, talking about the same thing, tag the host each time. For example, before I jumped on with Krystal today, I did a four part Insta story, and I made sure to tag each post. Why? Because easier for her to reshare it and also so she can get notified that she sees them. So whenever you're actually tagging a host in anything, if you've got more than one Insta story, for example, make sure you tag them in each one.
So it's easy for them to reshare and yeah, when you're doing that when you're screenshotting whichever episode you're listening to share your takeaways. Prove that you're listening to it that you didn't just fast forward. So it looks like you've listened to the episode. But I suppose a fossil, would it? No, don't listen to that. And then share the takeaway and time. The more you do this, the more you're like popping up on their
radar. When they see your name in their inbox from an application you filled out or a contact form or an email. They're gonna always I think Krystal before Yeah, she actually left review last week. Yeah, she shared episode number 283. Like, you know, whatever. So that's how you can actually that just get on their radar actually be genuine about as well. Don't think that do not fake this stuff. Because again, we will know. I know
someone's talking out of their ass. When people are talking out of their ass. Don't do it. Talk from from your heart. So good
because I'm just call everything that make hay just shared his freaking goal that was so so smart. And yet it's so simple. She didn't ask you to go and invest tons of money to like hire this PR firm to do all this. Like, how simple is it for you to genuinely listen to someone's podcast? Leave them a review. You could even say in your review. Hey, I loved episode number blah, blah, blah, where you talked about this? And exactly what you said, I read all of my
reviews. I as soon as one comes through, I'm like, Oh, what is this one say? So? Oh my gosh, like my job. Like, I feel like we're dropping mics all over the place at this point. Because that was so good. Oh my gosh, like you're just giving gems today. And this is so fun. This is why I said I could talk to you forever. But I know that we have to wrap this up soon. So we're gonna move into
rapid fire questions. And because you've already been on the podcast, like you've heard these before, so I'm gonna do a little quick spin on them. To keep you on your toes. I gotta get a little bit. So the first one is, it's normally what advice would you give to a brand new podcaster. But today, I want to ask what piece of advice would you give to someone thinking about guesting on their very first podcast? imagine somebody is going to their very first podcast tomorrow, and
they're nervous. And they're like, Oh, am I gonna say something like, what piece of advice would you give to them?
Oh, this style star, there's so many things that I could say. The first thing that comes to mind is your first interview. Make sure you do prep yourself as in like you, you look at the pitch you sent them. And I'm emphasizing this so much because there was one time when I did it. Luckily, I knew my topic well enough that it really threw me off because I was like, Oh, I thought I was talking about pitching today. But I'll talk about overall guesting, for example. So
look back at your pitch that you sent. Because that way, you're going to be well versed in that area. Keep notes by your laptop, or your monitor wherever you are doing this interview, they can't see it if it's like on your keyboard. So I would have a sheet I have a cheat book, not a cheat sheet, a cheap book. And I just like lay it down on top of my key, my my keyboard, because I just want to see like just I can just have a quick glance, because they don't capture your they don't
record audio a lot of the time. If they do, they're not going to notice like you know, a very subtle glance, just just double check, part two of your process. So just read the pitch. Listen to at least two episodes of this podcast. And the reason why is because you want to understand the conversational tone that the host has. You want to see, do they ask the same questions over and over again? Is it throughout the interview? Or maybe it's towards the end? Like how Chris was doing
right here? And you want to see, do they interject when their guests speak? Or do they sit back and hold space because Krystal she sits back and hold space. But she also knows when to interject when to reap loop back to something you want to understand what they do. Because I've had a guest who was so set in the question she sent me She didn't realize I was deviating from it. She panicked. She panicked because she was like, Oh, I thought we were just going through the questions I
sent you. I was like, No, like, I I often ask those questions. But I deviate and you want to be as prepared as possible for any curveball question. So that's kind of like three pieces of advice. One, remember your pitch. Have your notes and listen to at least two episodes to understand the host conversational style. Oh, gosh, that's that's so good, though. Like, I mean, I wish
I would have had that the first guest on the podcast because I think I kind of had that panic set in like, Oh my gosh, like what How? Like deer in headlights. What am I supposed to say? So yeah, no, these are so so good. Okay, normally I would ask, What's your dream podcast? Who would be your dream podcast. Guest But instead I want to ask, What is your favorite podcast right now?
I really like Systems Saved Me by Jordan Gill. I was on it recently as well. So I'm definitely very biased. And also I'm good friend of Jordan. She's a good friend of mine. I just really like how she speaks about certain things. And sometimes she can do it like chop, chop, chop, like, you know, systems systems systems step by step, but also how she also has these very much needed conversations. So I went on the show
recently to talk about sustainable visibility. And how, you know, that's a big picture topic is not necessarily a step by step thing. Yes, I have process and everything. But I love that it's a combination of the two, any, any podcast really, that has room for those deep conversations, but also knows how to keep the audience on their toes, not lose them during those big conversations? Right, awesome. We'll
link to the episode that you did with her in the show notes. So everybody, you have to go check that out, too. Once you listen to all of the ones that make a spin on on this podcast. Listen to that one.
That's it. Busy. Yeah. Do you want to hear this voice even more? Thank you.
Oh, my gosh, you're so funny. Okay, so the last question is normally Do you consider yourself a perfectionist? But now I want to ask you, what is one thing that you are so grateful for in your podcast journey?
Okay, this is gonna sound super cheesy, but I love cheese. I like cheese boards. Okay. It's actually there's something you said in your second episode on my podcast, so maybe we can link those to the two episodes or Krystal's been on and, you know, pending bird. But there was one thing that you mentioned about perfectionism. And it's just like taking me, it's given me so much
permission to not be perfect. And I can't actually remember the exact wording but the impact and the takeaway from that conversation was like, if you've got a problem with your audio, that's cool. Just post anyway, it I like I'm a recovering perfectionist. And I think thanks to Krystal, I've actually let go of a lot a bit. So you said earlier today that it looks like I'm always having fun. I know that board is because I finally let
go, I try to be perfect all the time. And I noticed my audience resonates with that, because it gives them permission to not be perfect, too. And they love the realness of went like I just shared an episode about behind the scenes on my scrappy workshop launch. I didn't have a proper launch in place. I had a whiteboard. I just took notes. I took a picture of it. And I asked, hey, would anyone be interested in that? Yeah, that's
not perfect. But it's great. So I guess my answer to your question is I'm learning that from you. Actually.
I'm not gonna cry. I'm not. Oh, my gosh, y'all This is Spirit said, this has been one of my favorite episodes have ever done. And just, oh, this was so so good. So tell everybody where they can find you what you're working on right now. And your favorite place to connect with people online?
Absolutely. So for those of you who would like to know, like 25 proven ways to get booked on podcast, then you're gonna love this resource that I have, which is called be our podcast guests. And basically, I asked 25 podcasters was one out of the box pieces advice that they would share for people who want to book you're gonna want that isn't literal roadmaps and think of it as a personalized roadmap for each of
those podcasts. podcasters podcast. So that is what I highly recommend that go to so go to 25 experts stop making sound confident one and a woman working on. So I've briefly mentioned it, and I'm going to mention it again. So ubG What does that stand for? ultimate podcast gifting. And yeah, I had to check myself to see is this worthy to be called the ultimate podcast guests workshop.
So I've actually turned it into a workshop series, where you can get phase one, phase two, phase three of my whole process, and you can get it all as a bundle. Or you can get it singular if you just want part one, part two, or part three or combo. And if you're interested in really knowing that step by step process with a ton of examples, and walkthroughs and timeless strategies, I highly recommend that you go check that out. So all you
do for that one go to pitch workshop makers.com. I will send a link to Krystal and Krystal just putting out there if you want to be an affiliate, we can make that an affiliate link as well. And of all the social media platforms, I'd highly recommend we connect on Instagram because I'm a huge voice note DMR. So podcaster in me, and all you need to do is get instagram.com forward slash BK saying that's without the hyphen, just to make everyone's life easier, including my
own version. We're gonna have links to all of this and I have to tell you, that I love going on to make a stories because she always shares pictures of her little kitties and her cats and it just, I had to share one with the boys the other day because we recently got a cat last year and nibbles and fast my case several times. I'm like, ah, like, Is this like this?
What's going on like this? How cat life is because before I'd never had one, and I saw a picture the other day of one of your cats in the laundry basket, and they were like, Oh, cute. So yeah, if you're if you're all about the cat life and looking at cute pictures, oh, my what are their names?
The names are Loki, and Luna. And Ashley, literally in the last couple days, Krystal is officially adopting them because they are actually my sister's cats. And because she recently gave birth to my nephew last year. And she just realized that the cat's quality of life is actually better here because we live in a four bedroom house. And my sister lives in a two bedroom flat. And she has a you know, a young, tiny human to look after. So actually, we had that
conversation and I'm officially adopting them. So I'm actually going to be transitioning from cat auntie to cat Mama.
I love this so much. And they're both so cute. They have these little squishy faces.
Yes. I love it. They're so cute.
We all go follow Medicaid. Go check out all her resources. We're gonna link to everything in the show notes. But thank you so much for sharing all the wisdom that you share with us here today. I'm so grateful to have you in my life. And for you to be the jam to my peanut butter. So think
jelly, by the way, because I actually like the word jelly and just wiggle wiggle. Jelly, like, internally, I will see that much jelly. Oh, yes, jam. But we can just call it PB and J, PB and jelly. Whatever you want to call it. I love it so much. Thank
you so much for being here today.
Thank you love you crypto.
So what did you think? Oh my gosh, she's just she's so dang incredible. And I love the chemistry that we have back and forth in being able to talk very openly about what's going on in our own business in our podcast in our own journeys. Because since we met in person in October 2019 like I feel like we have evolved so much as people as entrepreneurs and leaders in our industry. And I'm just so grateful to have her as the jam or the jelly to my peanut butter. And
she's just she's so fantastic. But since this episode was recorded, make hay has actually started a directory for Asian entrepreneurs. She wants to make sure that they are being seen and spotlighted and I love this idea so much. So I'm going to have extra links in the show notes to some of the really cool outreach programs that she is working on to make sure that introverted and underrepresented entrepreneurs out there so I want
to make sure you go check these out. All of them are going to be in the show notes and make sure that you stay on the lookout for Mai-Kee's awesome upcoming podcast pitching workshop if you are trying to get on podcast. Okay, everybody Listen up. Because you should be doing this. You should be wanting to get on podcast so you can get your show out in front of more people. Go check out the link in the description. You're going to find it in the show notes. It's
KrystalProffitt.com/episode244. And you'll find everything that we talked about today. All of Mai-Kee's incredible links and y'all please go follow her on Instagram because I love watching her and her fluffy cats. She has been the person like ever since we got our kitten last year. I'm like, I don't know how to take care of this cat. I don't know what they're doing and she has been helping me with just understanding being a cat mom and all the things until there so go check out the
show notes. KrystalProffitt.com/episode244. Go connect with Mai-Kee on Instagram and all the other places where you can connect with her and, as always remember, keep it up. We all have to start somewhere.