We are breaking records on the podcast today because today's guest has been on the show not once, not twice, not three times. But today is her fourth appearance on the Proffitt Podcast. We are chatting with none other than make a saying we are talking about really being intentional with your podcast content and your platform message and just so many important conversations that I feel like really need to be highlighted because make hay is talking about things in this space that no
one else is talking about. And I'm really excited for you to hear today's conversation. So enjoy my chat with my good friend, the peanut butter and jelly a podcasting myself and make a saying Welcome to the Proffitt Podcast where we teach entrepreneurs how to start launch and market their podcast. I'm your host, Krystal, Proffitt, and I'm so excited that you're here. Thanks for hanging
out with me today. Because if you've been trying to figure out the world of podcasting, think of this show as the time saving shortcut you've been looking for. So let's get right to it, shall we?
Oh, right, Proffitt Podcast listeners. She's back. This is the fourth time we have had her on the show. Welcome back, make a
hello, my lovely and hello to everyone who is at all familiar with me because this is a record breaking fourth return. Like both on like my my end and Krystals. And I believe this is the she's the only person who has been so gracious to ask me back four times in total. And I think I'm your fourth appearing? Guest,
you know? Yes. Oh my gosh, well, it's so funny because we were talking about how we never catch up. So behind the scenes like Mai-kee and I are like, we're good friends, like Well catch in from time to time where the peanut butter and jelly of podcasting. And it's like, we just haven't had a chance to catch up because everybody's so busy. So we were sitting here and looking at each other on screen. And we're like,
oh, and I have to tell you all. I still remember I know I've told the story before I don't care Mattel it again. When make a and I met in person, we were lucky enough fortunate enough to meet in person in 2019. And I still remember the first time that we kind of like locked eyes. And we're like, Wait, make it crystal flake? Is this really you? And you were so tired. You were jet lagged, by Starbucks, of course. Because we were just
like, oh my gosh, we both dated caffeine. And I just remember that's just so specially ingrained in my mind as like you just have such a bright smile. So I'm so happy that you're here today. And we're going to talk about podcasting. We're gonna talk about what we love to talk about.
Exactly. And bless you for still thinking that I had a bright smile, like when when we first met, because, like, so for all of you who don't know, I'm based in the UK. And so me to go to San Diego requires me to literally go back in time. And so I turned into this early bird. And I'm like, the lightest night owl that you can find basically. So for me to go on the flip side of the world and actually change my whole sleeping pattern is a pretty big deal. And I didn't give
myself enough leeway. I think I arrived the night before the conference with the next day. And I thought, oh, gosh, I should just give myself some extra padding just to adjust. So I'll do that she did that morning until I had caffeine in my system. And I was like, Oh, hey, hey, Chris. And here we go. Yeah, many years later. I love it. So yes,
I am. Oh, I'm so glad that you have had so many pivots and changes and then so many cool things over the years, like since we first met, but you're still helping other people. So you're helping other people be visible, you're helping them really share their message. And I think that you have this experience that's very
unique in what you do. So for anybody that's listening, don't worry, we're gonna we're gonna link to all of make a and eyes like previous episodes, and you have to go listen to them because they're so good. But for someone that's just tuning in for the first time, can you give us kind of in a nutshell, a little bit of your journey with helping people be sustainably visible.
Oh, okay. So I think you've asked this question in any of the interviews if this is the first. So when it comes to sustainable visibility, that was a movement that I founded in mid 2020. And the reason why it came up out is because I started noticing a lot of conversations around visibility to be purely on the logical side. And that's not a problem in the grand scheme of things. Of course, we need to know things step by step. And we need to know the strategy.
However, for the people who genuinely find it a struggle to follow the step by step, not because the steps aren't clear, and it's not because they're incapable or anything like that, is because there is a layer of consideration that is just not there. And that consideration is through the realm of safety. Because each of us have our own ways of feeling safe within ourselves and safe to show up with certain people certain movement, certain platforms. And that just wasn't being
talked about enough. And to this day is still not talked about enough. And so I really started to have these underground conversations at first, just to see if anyone else felt the same, or was it just a pure projection on my part? Because that's one thing that I'm always aware of is like, Okay, I know, I feel this way. And it's not that it's not enough for me to feel a certain way. And I just need external validation to, for me to, for
it to feel true to me. I just want to understand to see if there is a shared truth that I have with people in my space. And it absolutely is the case. There is a lot of step by step that's needed. But I do believe in the safety first strategy, second approach.
Yeah, I really like that. And I think that you're totally right. I don't know anybody else is talking about it and the way that you are. And so I know, will tell us a little bit about because I know that you recently went through a program and you got a certification that you were so excited about I love like, you'll have to go follow me on Instagram. I'm always like, Oh my gosh, like, what did she working on it? I love your graphics, they just, they always make me
smile. I think it's because your branding is done so well. And so I'm always like, Oh my gosh, what was she working on now. So tell us a little bit about that in how I guess how it plays into what you do but share a little bit more about like why it's so important to you. Because I think that you kind of created this own little bubble of the internet that, like I said, when I see your brand, it just makes me feel real smiley, and it just
makes me really happy. So I don't know, that's maybe just a little feedback on your branding is working. Like, think about that.
So yeah, so I recently became certified in grief loss and trauma sensitive leadership, coaching. And this is with Lisa Koosman. And I chose to, to really go through this huge undertaking, and it was really huge. And honestly, the work is far from done in the grand scheme of things. I don't think it can be done in my lifetime. But something happened. During the Black Lives Matter movement in 2020. It was a huge
wake up call for me. And I realize how much of my life I was I've spent in ignorance, and the things that I didn't know that I didn't know, you know, and then I realized that any conversation around race, I could not contribute to because I was so spending so long, trying to be neutral. And I realized that being neutral only, like enables the oppressor to continue. Do you know and I just thought, oh, gosh, there's so much that I need to unlearn and learn. And I knew that just talking
about what it's like to feel safe in one's skin. I didn't want my own trauma to be what qualified. We've talked about it because it's not. Yes, I have lived experience with it. But there's a very fine line between sharing one's lived experiences, and projecting those experiences as if it's true for other people. So for me taking on that certification allowed me to become more and more impartial, when it came to that and to know how to
hold a space that is trauma sensitive. And I am really being mindful of language here that there's a lot of misrepresentation on the internet, I guess around being trauma informed. You see trauma informed a lot more, because it sounds better. Right? But actually, for someone to be trauma informed, is not about taking like an overnight course or like a six weeks like nine month
program. being trauma informed actually means that you have the skill sets experience and a supervision and the license to be able to help someone through their trauma. I am trauma sensitive which means that i is not currently in my scope to help someone through their trauma but I can hold a space for them to become aware of how it's impacting them, and then refer them to someone else to work through that trauma with them, I would love to be that person to work on it
with them. But currently is not responsible for me to say that I can because I shouldn't. Nor Sure, I know I should, at this point, because I just simply don't have the training and the expertise and the supervision to facilitate that. So being trauma sensitive means that you have an awareness of how trauma impacts people. And that can be
through many lenses. So it could be through the lens of race through the lens of class, sexual orientation, gender, you know, that there's so many of those like, even like religious trauma, for example, like, there are a lot that we carry that we probably don't realize that we have. And so trauma is not just something that we, that can happen to us, throughout our lived experiences, it could be a collective trauma, it can be ancestral, even. So that's just, that's just a lot to unpack
there. And the thing is, again, I didn't want my own lived experiences to be what qualified me alone, I wanted to understand. I'm like, Okay, this is what it's like, for me, I wonder what it's like for other people, you know, and I just, I just didn't want to have any parts or to reduce as much possibility to attract people into my space, because I'm a trauma victim, I didn't want to create this breeding ground of trauma bonding, which in itself can be extremely harmful. It's
nice to feel that someone can relate to you. But unless you're being held in a space, with a facilitator who has training on how to not re traumatize yourself, or to cause secondary traumatization, that can be very dangerous and harmful. And so I just wanted to do my part as much as I can within my means right now, to take a step towards a different direction that's focused more on supervised facilitation, and that's currently where I am, there's a lot more work for
me to do. I do feel that with the certification on my belt, there's a lot more work I can do about educating myself and show leading by example, what it's like to be trauma sensitive. So that's my school, they're like, why did
this is so good, it's so good. Because like I said, I don't think that I can't think of another person that is doing what you're doing in the space where other people are sharing messages. So I actually I have a childhood friend who she's out in California, and she is, she's a therapist, She is a psychologist, she, she helps people deal with trauma, and I see the work that
she's doing. But she's like one to one, like she's working with clients, and she has this whole, you know, a practice, she has a clinical practice where she works with other people. And so she's doing work that way. But what you're talking about is the bigger collective of people sharing messages. And that's really why I wanted to, you know, bring you here today, because you're doing
the work for yourself. Like you're like, you know what I just I want to step into this role and let my community know that I'm working on this for myself, but this is why I wanted to bring you on because there's people listening right now. They're like, well, Krystal, I just I help people do this. And I do this. And I'm like, no, no, we
need to listen. Because there's a lot of you that I know, listen to this podcast, your coaches, you're trying to help people in certain aspects of their financial life, their fitness life, like whatever, and you need to be aware that what you say, matters. And it's not just like, oh, well, you know, I just recorded that on the fly, you know, and it's just, it's just what I said, like, I love the idea of make a bring into the table
intentionality. That's really what I hear are more more so than anything and like your whole message is, you're being so intentional with how you're showing up for your community. And I just, I wanted to just applaud you for that and recognize you for that. Because I see it, I see it as someone that follows you, I really see it and I think that it's super appreciated. Have you noticed any kind of difference in your own community like did? Have you lost followers? Have
you gained followers? Have you had people say, Thank you for your work? Like, what's that response been? Like?
I've received so much gracious support from my audience, from my peers from my clients. I remember when I celebrated receiving the certification for the first my first post
about it. And then one of my clients who's currently working with me inside of my sustainable visibility incubator, she said, as someone who's actually working with you, I can see firsthand how you've integrated these practices and it's been life changing for me, and I thought, wow, that is that me More than she'll probably ever know, to be honest. And of course, I let her know that that's the case. And they've been nothing but supportive.
And if anything, it's really helped me to discern who to collaborate with know, who to take on as clients and who to continue nurturing that relationship with if we're already in a relationship, and who to say yes to for certain opportunities. So it's really helped me to be Krystal clear on my values, and how they are being expressed through the choices I make and the actions I take.
Yeah, that's really good. And and I think, the so and here's me, I'm just gonna be very honest, I'm projecting now. But I'm thinking about, like, everything that's happened
over the last two years. And I gotta be really honest, there's been a few of my mentors that I've questioned, you know, some of their actions, some of the things that they've done in the past, and like, kind of the like, what you were talking about earlier is like, whether it was blinders on or just didn't want to, like, look at it or admit it, you know, it's kind of like, oh, I can't unsee some of this stuff now. So have you had any
experience? And of course, we're not like naming names of like, oh, yeah, totally
leaving paths in this one person?
Yes, yes. But have you seen anything? Let's like really stood out, especially for those people that are in the online business space?
Oh, yeah. I mean, I feel like I've got rose colored glasses for the online business space to be honest. And yeah, during this kind of work, makes you see things you can't unsee things you can't ignore, like, make you hear things that you can't unhear. And it's like, wow, I have I've been listening to these people all this time and been indoctrinated with their messages without realizing it. And it's because it's so it's so embedded into our systems, and in a lot of our
teachings. And so, yes, 100% It is really made me extremely conscious of who I who I choose to be taught by. So I don't just listen to anyone because they sound good, or because of the reputation, they have. To be honest reputation doesn't really matter that much to me anymore. It used to, because I think there is this whole authority transfer, like oh, if I'm associated with this person, and then I get an actual bump, all of that. I mean, like, we can all feel like
that. And I do want to acknowledge the fact that I am in a position where I can do that. And I know not everybody is. So please work with where you are. Take everything I'm saying with a pinch of salt right now. And just please look at your own lenses, your own resources and all of the things. And yeah, it's some people I've been extremely disappointed by, and I just can't look at them
anymore. I can't learn from them anymore, even though it is one of those things where like, you appreciate the art, but not the artist kind of thing. Right? So I think what they are saying can be very beneficial, but how they are doing it or how they are selling or how they're communicating how they treat people. That is a huge like, Oh, it is kind of like if you go on a first date. They this ethereal day that we keep speaking, right?
Like they keep saying that you can tell a lot by someone's character based on how they treat waitstaff, like in a restaurant, for example. And I just feel like this is the cousin that this face is like, how do they treat people? How do they treat their community? And how do they treat their collaborators and all of that. And it's been very frustrating if I'm quite honest. Because when you become aware of it, again, you can't unsee it and then suddenly, it really starts to narrow down who
you can trust moving forward. And that can be a very isolating and lonely kind of experience. And that's a personal grief that is ongoing for me, like letting go of past teachers who, at the time, I really admired I really adored and wanted to do nothing but do right by them by being a good client, a good student. But now I find myself in this point in my business where I don't want to be under someone's wing anymore. Like, I want to see
what I can do with my own wings. And I never say that I look up to anyone anymore, because that reinforces a power dynamic, where I'm in a subordinate position and they're in a dominant one. And you know, I'm 100% There are people way ahead of me, but I like to think of it more horizontally then vertically. So I look to people I don't look up to people anymore. And that's just been a distinction have actually been very helpful for me and the teachers who I'm choosing right
now. I can tell because they are literally leaping off of the pedestals that we may naturally put them on and like No, no, no, I'm in with you, I'm in the trenches, and I'm a part of this community just as much as you are, you know, there may be some things that I can help do, you know, create some guidance. But ultimately, we are in this
together. And I can feel that instead of these mentors who've have been so far away from the beginning, and have no intention of getting closer to us only further away.
So yeah, so that's so well said, because I feel like what you just said, is part of so many conversations that I felt like I've had behind the scenes for the last 12 plus months, but haven't really articulated so much of it, but like, you just hit the nail on the head of like, just being so frustrated with the people that you know, are leading their authorities or experts, they're there in the space of they have large followings, they have really big impact, and they
know it, and they're still way further removed from the reality of people that are just coming up. And they have no intention of like, it's like, oh, sorry, that was me, you know, 10 years ago, or whatever. And it's like, like, I'm not there anymore. And so this is what I love so much about what you do, because what I see from afar, is you really celebrating people that are doing the work. So it's not like you're amplifying a message that you're just like, Oh, I'm like we're against this
person, like with your pitchforks. You know, it's like, oh, you know, we these people are terrible. Like, we're not trying to do that. But what I love is you are helping other people who are doing the work that you want to see more of in the world, you're like, Hey, we got to shine a spotlight on this person, because they're doing really awesome things. And that's, that's honestly, to be really frank with you. That's why I wanted you to come on the podcast today, cuz I love what she's doing.
Like, come. We just like totally threw this together last minute, like little scenes for y'all. Mai-kee told me, she was like, Hey, I, we were just chatting back and forth on Instagram. And I was like, Hey, what are you up to? And we were catching up? And I said, Well, you got to come on the podcast and talk about it. And she was like, okay, sure, let's make it happen. So that's
really why we're here today. We're just, I'm here just to brag on you and tell you how much I appreciate all the amazing things that you're doing. So there you go. Just a little breakfast.
You're a gem, thank you. I mean, I do I do appreciate what you said there as well about shining the spotlight on people who are doing the work instead of shining a spotlight on the people who are doing it wrong, because it's so easy for us to point fingers. And I know how tempting it is to do that. But in doing so it shifts the attention to doing something that's just not helpful. Right, I think it's important to
hold people accountable. 100%, right. But we need to acknowledge that is not so much the individual person, but is the pattern that has been perpetuated in our societies and our systems as well that collectively we can help to dismantle slowly but surely, as much as I want it to be super fast and turned overnight. Let's be frank, these, these systems have been in place for an extremely long time, and it's not going to happen overnight, it might not even happen in our
lifetime. You know, and so all we can do is just do that dismantling process and plant the seeds and, you know, invite the next generations to continue our work together to create a more equitable world, right? Because it's, it's not equitable. So, yeah, so
it gets so it's so awesome, though, because I love I love hearing you talk about it, because I can, I can feel the passion that you have behind it. And if anybody's listening, and you are helping people that are really going through a more serious like a heavier topic, and it doesn't have to just be a super heavy topic, because I know, we have a lot of people in our community that are helping people that are going through a grieving process, or they're going through something traumatic like in
real time. And I just I really encourage you to seek out people that are certified to like have make hay on your podcast, say, hey, I need you to come and you know, talk to this person or you know, just reach out to the resources that are available. Because I mean, let's be honest, y'all most of the time, I'm just talking about podcasting. I'm just talking about here's how to do your dynamic content has here's how to do this.
But at the end of the day, what y'all are sharing on your shows, it matters, like everything that you say, really matters and it has that ripple effect. So yeah, I'm just I don't know I'm, I'm just so excited to see what you continue to do with this work in the future. But I wanted to ask you so I have I kind of like switched up Our rapid fire questions.
Okay, okay.
I'm gonna throw her Yeah, I'm just gonna throw her for it. But when this episode goes live, it's gonna be just kind of into the new year. And I want to know, what are you most excited about in podcasting in 2022
I'm most excited to hopefully play a relative part in helping the podcasting community to be able to share their messages with intention and consideration for whoever is listening. And not to say that's not happening at all right now it is, but I feel it's still in its embryonic stages, because podcasting in in its entirety is still a baby in the grand scheme of
things, right. And so by so because all by you, like, you know, teaching, like all of these folks to start their own podcasts, and market them and launch them and all those things, we are only at the very beginning stages, where it's where you can absolutely create and perpetuate some very, very informed practices with how we do, how we go about podcasting, whether it is when we are doing solo shows, when we're doing guest episodes or panels, you know, there's a lot of conversations
to navigate. Moving forward, no matter which niche you are in, you honestly never know who is listening to you. So just having some form of awareness and layers of consideration can be
extremely helpful. So something I'm extremely excited to bring into the new year and moving forward, hopefully, depending on the response is, so this is this is how we actually wound up having conversation and DMS that led to this conversation as well here on the podcast, for the fourth time, is I want to create a workshop where I teach
podcasters. And interviewers like summit hosts, or people with Facebook groups who invited guests or people who do IG lives, and they interview someone, I want to help podcasters and interviewers to who are really committed to holding their guests in a more trauma sensitive manner, so that they can really access those really rich insight of stories from a place of consent and agency from the guest.
That's awesome.
This is something that I personally have never seen. So I can't say is the first of its kind it might be is the first of its kind from who I know, in industry, which probably isn't a lot in the grand scheme of the world. But in the spaces that we share Krystal like Yeah, I think it's the first and is very much needed. And that's actually not my own words. It's any person who
I've shared this with. They've told me this, they have this roll chills down the spine, or they're like, Wow, no one teaches this, like this is so needed. And that's great confirmation. I'm like, Okay, I'm going to press forward and see and see whether the market is ready for it. And or who's ready enough for it? I should say, right now.
Yeah, this is awesome. And is this something that you're hoping to teach people who already have a podcast and they're already sharing a message on their platform? Or are you trying to help people that are like, brand new just getting started?
So it's a bit of both, it's, of course, going to be the most helpful for people who already have a podcast or they're an interview of sorts. However, I do believe that there are a lot of people who want to start things right, right from the get go. Right? And right. I'm hoping that air quotes because that's all
relative, right, whatever right means. So I think there are people who are no, my own clients, for example, a lot of them do want to start podcasts, but they won't until they have certain things like this in place because that's how intentional they want to be. And so I think this can absolutely help people who have intentions of being interviewers in some shape or form, especially when it's around 10 to topics and since two stories,
yeah, okay. That's really good because I know that there's going to be a lot of people listening like I said, we have people that are coaches, we have people that are trying to speak to a bigger groups. I know for me, personally, I'm going to my big goal, and this is actually what I definitely wanted to ask you about. One of my big goals for 2022 is to guest on more podcasts. So I'm like, okay, like this is
this is so good. Like I I wanted to ask you to so I'm thinking back to our first conversation on the podcast where we talked about your 101 pitches that you did 30 days Oh my gosh, like I just I'm still like, I'm doing all this research for myself. I'm just like, How in the world did she do this? And so I wanted to give, do you have like an updated number? Like, is there like a ticker somewhere or so like, how many podcasts have you been on since you started this whole journey,
I think now is, is at least over 60. And I had 30 of them were kind of like all within a two month period. And, and that was back in 2019. And, of course, in retrospect, I share that story with, of course, a line of caution. Because as, as impressive as it sounds, the reality of fulfilling that is, it takes a lot of capacity, which is why I always share that story, not for people to follow it. And but here's what I
learned. So you don't do that. And and who but who am I to tell people what they should and shouldn't do, I can only recommend and invite people to experiment to see what's right for them, right. But ever since then, I've been even more intentional about who I show up with. And it's for reasons that we shared earlier in this episode. And actually, I invite everyone who's listening right now who wants to get on the podcast to
consider this lens. So remember that every single podcaster that you say yes to or has said yes to your pitch, you are basically telling whoever follows you, your own audience, your own client during community that you are advocating for them to a degree. And so if you are seen side by side with someone who is actually quite harmful in any degree, to your audience, you're basically telling
your audience that that's okay. And I do want to say, of course, we can't know the ins and outs of every single podcasters stories and every nuance, every thing they've ever said everything they've ever done, I do understand that. But I just invite you just to just consider is this someone who I'm proud to advocate for even if I wasn't on their podcast? Right. So that's personally how I filter through the requests, because I get invited a lot
more now. Because like I I do have a name in the space about being this podcast guesting person. And I do, you know, and then when I think about my sustainable visibility thing, I have to think about my capacity, and I have to think about who I'm representing. And I have to think about who I'm advocating for. So these are my filters of consideration that I invite each and every one of you to consider when you are saying yes or no to various people. So that's why I'm, I'm actually
happier to take on less interviews. And again, I acknowledge that I'm in a position where I can do that, because I have a lot of interviews under my belt. So if you're not quite there, please do take this with a pinch of salt. For me, because I'm in this position, I would rather say no, a lot more. And it's not from a place of ego, but it's truly actually from a place of service for them. And for
me, is service to them. Because every podcaster deserves to have a guest who's going to go all in for that interview to provide incredible value to their audience in them. And if I'm not the person who's willing to do that, then it should be a no. Right? Because they deserve someone who is willing to provide that. And if they're not a person who is aligned with me for personal values, as well as business ones, than I am not their person. And
that's okay. Right? There's plenty of other podcasters you can collaborate with, and there's plenty of guests who they can invite on. So is that just understanding what your personal priorities are? So if your priorities are reach,
then go for it. If your priorities are to honor your values, and express them wherever you can, because my audience is very tuned in with the nuances, so they notice, I remember when I said yes to an opportunity that was a it was a huge question mark for me, because I really, like I aligned with a host however, the person who I was sharing the panel with, I was not okay with. So I had to question Is this okay? And I did wind up
saying yes. And to be honest, without naming, whoever this was whatever event this was, is not a regret, but it's definitely on that same wavelength. And maybe I said yes, out of ego. Maybe I said yes, out of obligation. And it was definitely a learning point for me, like Okay, moving forward, I can only say yes, to opportunities where I'm 100% Okay to reap in both any benefits or any costs that come with that. So
this is so good. Like, I felt like there was like six mic drop moments and everything that you just said, Because I mean, seriously, you just said exactly what I always think. But I never say out loud. So I want to repeat what you said that was just so impactful. And that was you saying, Whoever you're going to guest with on a podcast, whether you're the host, or you're the guest, you will be aligned in someone's mind as advocating for that person. And
you have to make that distinction. Is this someone I want to be associated with, and I totally agree with seeing people that go up after I mean, and I'll be really honest, I've done this myself is where I'm like, Oh, I really this person has, you know, 500,000 followers on Instagram, I just, I really, really want to be on their podcast, or I want them to come on my podcast, because then they'll share it. So it's this vanity metric of I just want like, shiny object, oh, you know, be in
the spotlight. But then I sit back. And I mean, there was even a guest on this podcast where I look back, and I'm like, Man, that just wasn't a good alliance. And it wasn't that, you know, their message was something I didn't want to be aligned with. But their audience just, it just didn't make sense. And so going back to what you were saying
that lesson learned, has stuck with me. And I 100% agree that that's the lens that everybody should look through is do I want to be associated with this person, regardless of the following, regardless of the thing, like all the things like you have to make that distinction? Is it reach? Or is it your values? And I'm gonna say it's, I mean,
I'm pretty hardcore on my values, too. Like, I just don't, I don't, I don't want to stray away from that, because I think that it says so much about your integrity, make a and I'm, and just 100% Like, you can just see it, you can see it from a mile away. How in of like, integral, is that the right word? No, that's not that that is a word. I'm like, I don't think that's the right word. I don't know, I'm not gonna try to pick up words here, because it's just gonna end badly. But
you're it was, it was so good. It was spot on with so many things. Oh, my gosh, well, I wanted to go ahead.
And also, while I do appreciate that our audience does pay attention to who I'm advocating for or not, I still invite my audience, I Oh, please, though, do your due diligence, don't just take my word for it. Never take my word for it, just as it is. Because I think if I speak in such a way that's like, oh, yeah, just follow me. And don't think for yourself, that's really encouraging them to shut down their own critical
thinking. And that's not what I want, I want my audience to make decisions for themselves, that can be influenced by me, but is informed by them. Right. And so when it comes to the responsibility that we are carrying, as hosts and or guests, you know, about the whole advocating whoever we are affiliating with just just remind your audience, I Oh, but please choose, and that's not undermining your influence on them, is just encouraging. That agency, you know, so, just want to say that.
No, that's great. That's great. actually want to go back to what you had said earlier about if if you are pitch something, because I know you do get more pitches, I get pitches all the time, too. And it's like, Oh, this isn't a line, like, what is the best way to let someone down gently that you have found if you're like, it's not about time. It's not about your schedule. And you know, if you said that it would kind of be out of integrity. If you're like, Oh,
I'm just so busy. I couldn't do it. Like, do you have any kind of language that you would use in like an email or a DM where you're like, This just doesn't align? Have you come across any of that?
When I'm responding to them to push you sent me? Or
yeah, if they're pitching you to either be on your podcast, or they want you to come on their show. Have you had any examples of that happening?
Oh, yeah, plenty. Actually, I'm shifting the ratio of because I've reduced the frequency of my podcasts. It used to be weekly, but now is fortnightly, which is every two weeks and that has given me so much space Krystal, I'm just so much happier. With it, I truly get I feel like I get to honor myself and I get to honor my guests way more than I used to because it used to feel like a churn at some point. Anyhow, that's
just a complete side note. And I shifted my ratio to 80% invitation and 5% pitch pitches that I will accept so that is I only allow for five guests now like moving forward. Only five guests Alvin entire you Year, I will accept their pitch. And I didn't do that for the sake of making your hearts he got the podcast is just because of my capacity, you
know. And so when it comes to someone who's actually been very well intentioned, they've done their research, but their topic just isn't alignment, sometimes I do invite them to send me potential like reframes on their topics, because
maybe there is room there. So if I am genuinely interested based on the intentionality that I am receiving based on their copy, so I am someone that I used to be a copywriter myself, so I read through copy, very, very intently I read a sales page, no matter how long it is, by the way, I read a sales page, at least I could do not 10 times before I make a decision, or even after I made the decision, I still read the entire in total, because I'm I just pay attention to the details so
much. So by the way, all of you please, please, please make sure that you're not copy and pasting. Because there's something called nesting where you see whether the is either on Google is dark green. So when something's been copied and pasted, and it turns out dark green, then it's obvious to the receiver that you've copied and pasted that just so you know. So yeah, make sure that all of your fonts and all of your colors are on point. And if you are going to do copy and paste for the sake of
simplicity, but please do personalize it. Do it from a Google Doc or, or pages or word, not from email to email. Just a side note. Anyway, to answer your question, when it comes to letting people down as kind as possible. We never know if we're going to offend someone, you know, we can't completely avoid that. But we can be kind we can. So for example, if someone has reached out to me well intentioned, but it's just not a fit. I'll say, hi, Dana, I don't know just personally that
came to my mind. Like, hi, Dana, thanks so much for reaching out to us. And for your interest in being guest on the podcast. At the moment, based on what we have seen from you know, what you shared with us, it doesn't quite align with the direction of the podcast, we do invite you, you know, to re pitch to us in the future, if you still feel aligned with us. And but for right now, I'm afraid is going to be a no. So it's just something like that, just letting them know, it's
not personal to them. It's their topics. It's not them, you know, and so I just have to be honest with them. And those are only for people who are well intentioned if people don't even bother to personalize. And like I've actually, I had a meeting with my team today. And my team of editors, Annie, she said, like, Oh, you've gotten quite a few requests lately, these pitch requests, I don't know whether to forward them to you or
not. And I was like, I trust your judgment. And she's like, Oh, good, because pretty much all of them are like a hi there, or, you know, just something completely impersonal. And I like, if they didn't bother, why should we write? So if they follow up? Okay, fair enough, you might warrant a response. But you've pretty much have an immediate no from me if you don't even bother to personalize it with my name and spelling it
correctly and having a hyphen in there. Because yes, I have a hyphen and my name is Mai-hyphen kee and it's not a capital K either. We have k in the second part of my name. So these are the small details that do matter. And just a quick note, because I am, I am Asian. So I, I do have an Asian identity, something as simple as spelling My name correctly, and being asked how my name is pronounced and not assuming it means the world to
me. And that's just one of those things that I just I don't have that I don't have an easy name, to remember to pronounce a certain way or to spell a certain way. But when someone even asks, they can try and asked just to clarify. But if they just go on and assume that just goes to show me that they are not the kind of person who picks up
on details like I do. And that something as simple as that can be enough to turn me away if there's potential for the bridge to be built sure if they reflect on their actions and come back in retrospect, but if it's not, and it's just like, okay, so yeah, I will I will reflect back what people give me, is what I'm saying.
Yeah, and if you want to hear more of our pitch fest
ranting
Yes, that's it. We do not like that. We do not like about pitches. Please go listen to our previous podcast episode. We have one totally dedicated to that we we really aired out some grievances in that episode, and I'm still really proud of it because we just
it's the best way to go. Listen to it. It was the it was a one just before as well to do. Yes, yes. Yeah, it was the third one. Yeah.
Okay. I I'm just I'm so happy to see your face. I'm so glad that we got to catch up. And I do have one more that I guess we like we kind of did rapid fire but not really. And but I do have fire we went fire. Yeah, we did fire. That's what it was it was fire, no rapid to it. This will be the one rapid question that I have for you. And that is what's your favorite podcast right now?
I wonder if I said this last time. It's if so then there's quite some consistencies there. So one, or the one that I listened to most is called the BS free this? Oh, gosh, I want to make sure that I honor this podcast. So her name proper shout out. Yes, of course. So her name is Maggie Patterson. And she is a host of the BS free says this business podcast. So I just love that she called out one last time. Okay. Oh, wonder who
who did a shout out last time. I wonder? Well, I'm gonna have to go through all my old episodes.
I know, I'm like, You're gonna have to go listen to it. Because it was just it was so good. And I feel like you always bring like a new podcast and something new to the mix. So I'm just I'm so excited. So tell us again, the name of your workshop. And we're going to have a link to it in the show notes. So everybody can sign up? Because it's happening January 19, correct? 2022 Correct.
Yes, correct. And I'm going to be running it at two different times for timezone inclusivity as well. So it's called converse with consent, and the link to go check it out for the details. And if you want to sign up, I really hope you do. Go to make a sound.com forward slash consent. And you'll find all the details there.
Yes, and we're gonna have links in the show notes. Make a thank you so much. Like, I'm just you're just such a bright shining light for me. And I'm just so grateful that you are hanging on I forget what it is. I think you're the jam or the jelly. Yes,
yes. Yes, absolutely. You're the peanut, but I love peanut butter. But I'm also British. So we call it jam here, by the way. I think you I think you call it jelly. Yeah, but I think jelly is a cuter name. So under under jelly jam, to your peanut butter of podcasting. Thank you so much for inviting me back for a fourth time. And I'm just so appreciative of the space that you carve out for these conversations to happen. So thank you.
Yes, thank you for being here today. And I told I told Mai-kee, I was like, if anybody starts inching in on her record for fourth consecutive interview, we're gonna have to have to call her back and say, Yep, you got to come back on the show.
Yes, first place. Oh, gosh, I never got first place for anything as a kid. So that feels so meaningful to me.
Oh, I'm gonna have to do we're gonna have to create a metal Oh, I'm not gonna spoil it. Yeah, we're gonna create some kind of trophy for you. And we'll send it Oh, thank you so much for being here today.
She's just the best jam to my pb&j. Right and she is just so fantastic. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Mai-kee. She is someone who if you are brand new to her, you're like, oh my gosh, she was incredible. How do I hear more of her content? Please go sign up for her workshop. We're going to have a link in the show notes.
KrystalProffitt.com/episode322. And I also want you to go check out the previous episodes that we have done together about podcasts guesting some of the biggest pitching mistakes that we see podcasters making or other people that just want to guest on shows we get a little ranty and one of the episodes but we're really honest, we have so many conversations behind the scenes about what it takes to be successful in this space, but how to do it in a manner that is really aligned with who
we are and the people that we want to be the brands that we want to represent and who we want to work with. So make sure you go check out Mai-kee's workshop, go to KrystalProffitt.com/episode322 for all the details, but that's all I have for you today. So make sure you hit that subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening to this podcast. Go check out make case other episodes that we have done here on the Proffitt Podcast and as always remember, keep it up. We all have to start somewhere