It's always so much fun whenever I have great guests on the show. But it's even more fun when we have return guest like I love it so much. And today's guest is none other than Angie Trueblood. You know her and love her from her original episode that we did back in 2020. And I'm going to link to it in the show notes and you can check it out. But it's so funny to think about the different ways that podcasting has really had an impact on me. And it has just connected me with the most
incredible people. Angie is someone that I will have Voxer conversations with and we will Instagram on the side. And we have just developed this fantastic professional and personal relationship that I'm so grateful for and it wouldn't have happened without podcasting. So I just wanted to share that little tidbit right there because I just, I know you're going to love today's
conversation. We went a little all over the place with our love of podcasting and all the fun things that we're both working on. But again give you the full update and rundown on what Angie has up to today because since we had her on the show last she has actually founded a brand new
piece of her business. So she is the founder of the pod wise group, where she uses her entrepreneurial spirit innovative thinking and super connector powers to deeply support business owners who are using podcasts as a core tenet of their business growth. Personally, Angie is passionate about normalizing the voices of women in leadership positions, which she feels privileged to play an active role in through her work. When she's not knee deep in the podcasting space for
work. She can be found spending time with her family and friends in Richmond, Virginia, binging the Smartlist podcast and attempting to develop a love of bourbon, a relatively failed effort at this point. I love that Angie, like we talked about smartlace So much like it, it all blurs together in my mind because she loves the show. I love the podcast and we both just we just geek out on it. So it's just another point of reference for me to love this
woman so so much. So please enjoy my chat with Angie Trueblood. Welcome to the Proffitt Podcast where we teach you how to start launch and market your content with confidence. I'm your host, Krystal Proffitt, and I'm so excited that you're here. Thanks for hanging out with me today. Because if you've been trying to figure out the world of content creation, this is the show that will help be your time saving shortcut. So let's get right to it. Shall we?
Alright, Proffitt Podcast listeners, we are back with a special guest today because Angie Trueblood is back in the house. Welcome to the show.
Hi, Krystal. So good to be back and see your face.
Oh my gosh. So it's funny because Angie and I, before we hit record are talking about because this is your second time to come on to the Prophet podcast. And we're like, Wait, when did that happen? And we're like, oh, that was right when the girl shut down. And I remember, we were sitting there and we were both kind of like, I don't know what's going on. Like, my kids are home. Your kids are home. We don't know what we're doing. But this actually feels like normal life.
So we're just, we're just gonna go with it is that you remembered it?
Well, I remember that we both were kind of like, No, we can take as long as we want. We're kind of hiding at this moment.
Yes, it was like the equivalent of like, where you see the mom that's like hiding in the pantry with snack. It's just like, No, I'm not in here. Like you text your husband. Like don't don't tell the kids where I am. That's what it was doing very hard work. Well, I'm so happy to have you back on the show and do because since then, since we first met, we have become like, we'll randomly box one another and be like, Hey, I have this idea, or did you see this? Like, here's
an industry thing happening. And so I'm just so grateful to have you in my corner and for us to nerd out about podcasting and content creation, because it's so fun. But today, I wanted you to just kind of give us an update. Like what have you been up to since the last time you were on the show?
Oh, I love that. Um, well, we've totally rebranded when you and I first connected the business was my name, Angie Trueblood. And I definitely got to a point where at some point in my life, I want an opportunity if I decided to go in that direction to have something that is sellable. And I don't know that my name is sellable. And I also wanted the name of the company To reflect more, that it's not necessarily about me, because we do have a team of people that support our
clients and our students. And so we rebranded really just the end of 2021, the company name is now the pod, ys group, pod, and then wi z e, because you can't do anything normal. And so yeah, we rebranded, we still take on clients, so we are pitching our concierge level clients to be guests on relevant shows. And then I actually at that point, I had a course, which has now morphed into a membership, because really, I feel like content in the podcasting space. As you know, it's like changing
at the speed of light. And I don't really feel like a course model really fit what we were doing and how we were supporting our students inside of it. So we have a co op that supports people and growing their visibility through podcasts. And I mean, I would say that's the primary business things. You know, in the middle there, we homeschool our children. So there's that.
And also our collectively our favorite podcast launched in that time. Can you tell everybody what your favorite this is another thing that will nerd out about tell us about our collective favorite podcast. So we like
smartlace, it is my favorite show. Um, it's so funny, because I don't know that I listened to every episode of it. But I really pick out they have such amazing guests. And so if I know the guest, I tend to listen. And it's just, it's really like the energy between the CO hosts, Jason Bateman Will Arnett and Sean Hayes like they are, I just want to be in a room with them and laugh. It's just so like authentic to who they
are. And I feel like I've taken nods from that in some of my more recent episodes to where, you know, the go pitch yourself. podcast was very, it's very actionable. And that's what feedback I always get. But then I've done like, I did an episode with my editor who's based out of the UK. And it was only the second time he and I had ever even spoken. And he's been my editor for over two years. But we get each other and I got feedback that that episode, it was just fun to be like a fly on
the wall. So
yeah, I love this. I love it. Because I think like I agree that you can feel the energy of the actual friendship, the actual like, all the things that they don't have to say to one another. Like they can just I'm sure because you know, you can't see the video of them recording. But you can just imagine the look that they're giving one another like as they're speaking, and it's just, it's such a relaxed environment.
And I think with you and I being in the industry, that we're always not so serious, and that we can have fun, but we're so like, Okay, well, this podcast needs to be this length. And it needs to have this kind of call to action. And that like we're so like having that, like, it's got to have like be purposeful, where they're just a few buddies having fun. And I think it just makes it so awesome. So hopefully that's what our
conversation is today. We're just, we're just two friends that love to nerd out about content creation. Oh,
yeah, you make a good point not to harp on it. But because we're in more of like a b2b space, like a lot of the people that we work with are using podcasts to grow a business. And these guys, they've got phenomenal careers. And yeah, I'm sure they're garnering sponsorships, but it's probably more for the network than them. But I think that sometimes we do get so serious
in the b2b space. And we've just seen other people come before us into all of these, like how to in teaching, that we forget that people buy from us, you know, funny, I pulled my name off the business, but people buy from us because of who we are and our personality and our energy. And if we don't let that shine through, then they don't really know what they're getting. So I think we can totally take nods from very successful non business shows.
Yeah, and I think it's great that, you know, that's the one that you promote, because I hear so many people all the time when they talk about their favorite podcast, it's always a marketing or business podcast,
but or true crime.
Yes, or true crime, which is I'm not a fan out. That's like my husband. That's him all the way. He loves all that stuff. I'm like, How can you do? I can't like it just it drives me crazy to listen to all those things. But I digress. But I wanted to pivot in to the real because now it's down to business, right? I was like, Okay, we had fun. We're gonna weave in fun into this whole conversation. But the purpose of us being here today is we wanted
to talk about audits. We wanted to talk about content audits and podcast audits. And I really just wanted to start with a question of why do you think it's so important to have a system in place to measure what you're doing or look back on what you've done in the past and either iterate on it change pivot or anything like that?
Yeah, I mean, I think especially See, when you frame an audit up like that, it's almost taking a minute to look back at the work you've done to analyze. So moving forward, you can do the things that worked more often. And pull off some of the things that haven't worked. We even one of our current clients just sent us. She's in the financial like bookkeeping, accounting space, so she's totally a numbers
person. And she had someone inside of her agency pull, basically, a deep dive of where every client they booked in 2021 came from, and podcast guessing is her primary marketing outreach, and they organized it into different niches, so that we can double down on pitching her for more shows in those niches in 2022. So even auditing, the impact, I think, is really important. But when you speak to auditing, like an episode of either you as a guest, or you as a host, so many of us don't like to hear
ourselves. And I know you've tackled this before, we don't like to listen to ourselves either as a host or as a guest. But you can never get better if you don't listen and make improvements. But on the flip side, I have actually gained confidence in myself and my ability to be a guest and a host. By listening because I, you're internally, so much more critical of yourself. But then when you hear an episode, you're like, Oh, she does know exactly
what she's talking about. And it was a great interview, and my voice is not as high pitched as I thought it was. So I think there's a lot of different places where an audit can be helpful, but it's really taking that hot second to look back and be able to make improvements and informed decisions moving forward.
Yeah, well, you're sitting here saying this, and I'm thinking about those people that have already launched a podcast and they're like, has Angie ever gone back and listened to one of her original episodes? Like, how, how has your podcast? Have you ever audited your own content and been like, this was amazing, or this was terrible.
So I actually I have not gone back and listened to beginning episodes. And this is really good for you and I to be talking because I more edit my guest interviews like me showing up on someone else's show rather than my own. That said, I have gotten recently I've been really looking to uplevel the content that I'm sharing, and even just the structure of my own show. And so I've definitely like listen to beginning snippets, and like how
I lead into the content. And I'm really tightening it up a bit and getting into the meat and potatoes rather than a lot of like their previous babble. And I always like share how I know my guests. And like, I don't really know if my listeners care that much about it. But I don't know if I've done like a full audit, have you? Yeah, well,
like I'm constantly looking at the numbers. As far as like, if I'll see a big spike in my downloads, all of a sudden, I'm like, Well, you know, let me go in and people always I think a lot of people assume that I'm always in my stats every day combing through, and I'm not y'all, I don't look at them every day. I look at them every other day. But you know, I only pull reports once a week. Exactly. It's no big deal. But you know, it's I do I audit my content a lot, because I am looking for
not vanity metrics. But I'm like, did something work? And the only way to really know if it worked is if I see a spike. And then I realized, oh, wait, that wasn't for a recent episode. That was for someone and you can see that someone went back and binge listen to all these old episodes. And so it reminds me, is that optimized? Do I need to make sure that I like is my latest offering there are like you said, if you've rebranded or your old links there do you need they are? It's yeah, that's what
I'm saying. Like there's so this is the way I look at auditing my content is not so much because at this point, I mean, we have hundreds and hundreds of podcast episodes, I don't think oh, I need to go audit and check every single one. But I will pay attention to the ones that are really outperforming all the other ones and those are the ones that make sure that they're optimized. Or if you know if the sound is terrible, too late, I
can't do anything about it. But I can always you know, look at Can I you know, add an image there? Or can I add another link to our as the guest This is another way to like just get back to the people that are in your community as like, you know, angels rebranded, like maybe I need to go back to her original episode and I'm going to do this after we're done here. I'm gonna say, Angie, is there anything you'd like me to add to your old interview that
you did? We can update the links we can you know, make sure your social profiles are okay, so there's all these different ways that you can look at it but I don't know is that like too much? I feel like I went down a nerdy row
or you know, it's like Super interesting as I think you and I had different ideas of what, when we said audit, like, I immediately immediately go to listening to the content and seeing how I can show up differently. And you went to the numbers. And I think the beauty is when you do both, because I definitely pull numbers. And that's something we've looked at, even with some of our students in the co op that host. Like, for the most part, their solo episodes get
far more. So for me, when I look at my episodes, my interviews where I have a guest on my show, they get more downloads initially. But when I look at how long listeners stayed with the episode, it's my solo episodes that they listened to the highest percentage of the actual audio. And so that informed me going into this year of, alright, let's make sure when I'm bringing someone on it super purposeful. And if I can tighten it up a bit, it'll be great because people can stick
with it. But I like the synergy of auditing both the content of the audio and like, how did it perform?
Yeah, I think you're right. And this is this is why, you know, we're just magic together, because it seems like we got to have like two sides of the coin. Because it does like it makes total sense. Because when I think about the actual content, like once it's out there, like it's done, it's out there. And I don't typically go back and listen to my full episodes, even when they're finished unless it's an
interview. Because obviously, I have to make sure everything is synced up because I have separate tracks and all the technical things behind the scenes. But But yeah, I like this idea of just listening to it to get better, and to tighten things up and to make sure that you're on the right track. But you said something, and I'm like, Oh, I got to ask her this question. It's, you're gonna feel you're gonna feel like it's
a personal question here. Okay. But do you always listen to a full episode of a podcast no matter what, like, before we pitch? No, like, just just you and you're assuming habits? You don't? Okay? No.
I mean, I aim to but if I get distracted, like, if I'm listening to one in the morning, when I'm getting ready. I will rarely it just depends on the content, right? And how much I'm into it. Yeah,
well, that's good. Because you brought up the listener, like the link that someone's engaged. And I will typically, like I listened to, I would say, 95% of all podcast, like, once I go in, like, I'm committed, I'm gonna listen to the entire thing all the way until the end, okay, but in the only look, because typically, I'll get turned off in the first like, minute, and then I'll just be like, Okay, I'm done. But
that usually doesn't happen. I'm like, committed, like, if I don't listen to it, then I will still go back and listen to the full thing. So I'm like, maybe not everyone does that. Maybe this is just
me. Well, and do you fast forward because that was something else. When I pulled my stats, it was Apple podcasts was how I think I was able to get this data is I was able to see if people were like fast forwarding to kind of get to the meat and potatoes. And they actually weren't as much as I would have expected. And so that gave me you know, like, if I want to run ads, or Fiverr promo at the beginning, they're
still listening. So I'm like, Okay, well, at least I'm doing the selling part in a way that feels aligned with the rest of the show. Because I thought that was like a really interesting stat to look at.
Yeah, it No, that's interesting. And it's funny because I, a lot of my shows do a lot of like, the self sponsored self promotional stuff. And it's typically like, oh, you know, I'm not interested in that right now. But I'm an anomaly because I'm a nerd for podcasts, like ads and how people do them and yeah, dread and everything. But I will fast forward through the smartlace ads. I've gotten to be too many. It's too many. It was fine when it was like one or two Autozone
ads here. And that's it now. It's too much. I'm like, fast forward, fast forward. And then and then I'll hear them talking to the guest again, like oh, wait, we're everyone. Okay, now we're good to go.
Yeah. Well, I think they have music behind them. So that's how I know is like, once the music has stopped, I can stop fast forwarding. Yeah. Autozone is where it's at, apparently.
Oh my gosh, yes. And then all the the manscaped ones like I'm ready to like to hear the like a, like a woman scaped Well, I don't know something that's not all about the guys. I'm like, Come on, ladies. Like we got to step it up with our ads and our promotional stuff, because I'm over it for all the ads that are
just sharing so ridiculous. But I want to go back to the content audit in the context of what you were talking about, because actually and we didn't really talk about this too much before we got started but getting on more podcast is one of my goals for 2022. And you know, I've started pitching and I've gotten some yes and no some maybes. You know, again, not accepting
guests right now. Crickets and I just wanted to you know, for some of your clients, if somebody that Thinking about, you know, getting on podcast and incorporating this into their marketing strategy. How is that measurable? Is it always measurable? Or is it kind of a guessing game until you can figure it out? Yes,
it's all of that above. So I feel like in the early days, because I started back in 2017, pitching clients, and back then it was kind of like the heyday of guesting as it related to growing your email list. It was something that we measured on behalf of our clients, we would have them use pretty links to personalize the URLs so we could see how much traffic it
generated. And then some of them would even want to tie it to their email provider to see like what amount of opt ins and signups they were getting from podcast interviews, that has definitely shifted over the years because I think his podcast listenership has increased, it's a much bigger ask to have someone go from listening to you to go get a PDF
as an example. So showing up with that type of opt in is just typically not going to convert, it needs to be like a really meaty type of opt in to have our current clients right now they have full on like video mini courses as their opt in. So it's something robust that they are offering listeners. Now when you have a podcast that you can tie it to like your listeners to the Prophet podcast. If they like what they're hearing from me, they can just go hop over and
listen to go pitch yourself. So that is something that is somewhat measurable. Like I don't know exactly where people heard me from, but I'll be able to look at the date that this interview goes live and see, was there a spike in my listenership? And did I sustain that over time? So those two things are pretty measurable. The bookkeeper the person who owns a bookkeeping bookkeeping agency, she guides people at the end of her interviews to
schedule a discovery call. And one of the questions on there is how did you hear about the agency? And so yeah, she totally quantifies the number of discovery calls and then booked business from her interviews. So those are definitely unquantifiable. The other things are not as measurable, you know, just your authority in the
space. That's one that when new people come to you and they see that you've guested on other shows, that gives them a little bit of confidence in potentially hiring you or viewing you as the expert. And then, you know, it's just this kind of like surround sound, that's what I call it when you've done it long enough. And you guested on enough shows, you start getting invitations to speak at summits, you start getting invitations to be a guest on other people's shows.
So it comes it like snowballs, eventually, if you do it consistently, and some of those you can anecdotally ask, like, where did you hear me, but when they're hearing it from all different places, it's hard to quantify that,
but I love the idea of what you're saying. And the reason why I love this is because it incentivizes everyone to have a podcast. But I love the idea of Andy being like, hey, you know, if you like what you're hearing, if you like the tips that I'm giving, if you like the strategies that I'm sharing, hop on over to our
podcast. And the reason why I love this is because, you know, anybody that hears you is a podcast listener and it's much easier to convert a podcast listener to another podcast yet is likely like we're in similar industries, where even though we're in podcasting and content creation, we don't do the exact same thing. But it's like this. It's a parallel between what we
do. And this is what I love about It's what I've always loved about podcasting is we raise everybody up, is that something that you've always seen whenever you're guessing on a show or collaborating with someone?
Oh, yeah, is that a lot of us are in this business and love podcasting, because it is raising up the voices of people who may have otherwise not had a platform to share their voice. And there is beauty in that, and synergy amongst the people that are helping do this. I mean, I'm in a Slack channel with three other agency owners and we all do very similar things. And we message each other when we have challenges when we want
feedback. When we saw email conversions, tanking, last summer, when the month of July I was like, did literally every podcast host take the month off because like we were getting zero responses, but they were two which it really helped us all feel like, you know, we hadn't lost her footing in the game. So yeah, there's a lot of collaboration in the space. And I think that's a beautiful thing.
Yeah, and I want to talk about because now you're talking about working with other, you know, industry owners and people that are doing similar things, what has been like the biggest shift that you've seen in people Getting on podcast or maybe even getting rejected faster in like the last 12 months? Has there been one thing that like really stands out?
I mean, we've definitely we've seen changes for sure, like the lead time in getting that yes is longer. I think like you mentioned, some people will say, like, I'm not taking new guests on right now, some of the shows are like, we're rebranding, or we're not producing it anymore. So that, you know, shuts down those relationships. So the lead time for each phase has gotten longer. From the Yes to the actual recording is often now several months out. And then God Only Knows once you've recorded
when episodes going live. I mean, we've literally had episodes recorded that haven't gone out for over a year. So it's kind of, you know, early on, authors would see this whole idea of a podcast tour. And that's still a thing. But you just have to be really cognizant of how you approach the host, in terms of when you're asking them to release your content that you're kind of using promotionally. So we've just recognized that, like, patience
is a virtue. And part of why we win a lot is because our due diligence and following up, it's not obnoxious, but we follow a schedule with very little emotion attached to it. And that's why a lot of our clients will get yeses, six or eight months after we've sent the initial pitch.
Yeah. Oh, my I've I've Yes, I've had Mary Kay. She was on the show. And we've talked about bad podcast pitches, I think before too, it's just like, oh, my gosh, but then I and Courtney knows this. And Kim knows this. Like I have like specific I know people on your team that I will specifically respond to them and say, Thank you so much for following up. I'm terrible at email. But this reminded me And absolutely, yes, like 100% Yes, but But you're right. I love the take the emotion out of it.
Like, can you speak to that a little bit? Like why that's so important?
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of times, it's why people hire us is because they don't want the they don't want the know, to hit their inbox because they take that know, as a rejection of them. Where as I approach a podcast pitch as an actual pitch of an idea that I have. And my ask is, do you think this is a good fit for your audience? And if they say, No, it's not a judgment on the work that I do, or the topic or my expertise. It's just it's not a great fit for my people right
now. But not everyone shows up that way. I know, that's like an exception to how people think. And then you just plug on to the next one, you know, but it is it definitely gets in people's heads. And sometimes that's what prevents people they'll come out hot and heavy when they pitch themselves. And then they'll fall off and they won't follow up because they don't want to bug the host. Just like you said, we get far more thank yous about following up than we ever
get. Leave me alone, like I do have one episode all about following up. And it was funny, because right around the time that I recorded it, we did get kind of like a nasty response. And I was like, Darn it, we got our first like, nasty response. So one of our follow ups. It was kind of like, take me off your list. Like, you're not really on a list like, yeah, database, but we're doing it like you can't unsubscribe?
Can you put me on your call list? I'm officially over this. But yeah, but at the same rate, like I love the idea of it being a number, a numbers game. And it's just like you said something that was so key. And really, I will always remember this as a podcast host is how can we serve your audience, this will get you a yes. Or a maybe for me every single time. It's like I will try to fit you in if you're thinking first and foremost about my audience and how you can serve the people listening
to this show. So has that really like shifted in any way like since you first got started and like how you can serve your audience because as we've said, the industry has changed. And there's so many different ways. And I'm thinking of someone that's listening to this show right now. And they're like, I want to be more visible. I want
to be on more podcasts. But what are some ways that I could help serve them have like, above and beyond maybe they're trying to stand out from all the 20 pitches that this guest is or this host is getting? Is there anything I could do to stand out?
I mean, for me, it really goes back to the strategy and taking what you I mean, it's really simple in my mind, like, there's definitely like bells and whistles that you can add to your pitch. Right? If you have a show. We've seen people that will and we did this for one of our clients in that famed July of 2021 where we were like oh crap, like We what what can we pull out of our bag of
tricks. And some of those where we lead with the idea of an interview swap, like, rather than just leading with the idea of our client coming on, like we went for it and said, Let's do the swap, because it would make sense. So I mean, I think there's things that you can do.
But for me, it's really the strategy and taking the time to own what you are an expert at, and have like a couple of key topics that you know, resonate with people who will likely want to come back to you, and make sure they also overlap with the type of hosts that you want to connect with, and put out an idea for a show that would make sense for that host. And do the work like you and I both have gotten pitches that are offering to be a guest, and maybe there's like six different topics they
can talk about. I don't want to figure that out, and I'm not gonna figure it out. I want you to own your authority, do enough legwork to get who my audience is, and hand deliver a perfect topic to me. So for me, it's all about the topic. And I know, and I'm sure you've run across them in the podcasting space, there are people who are having guests on just to try to get their own exposure, right. Like they just want a guest on so that guests can share the content with their
audience. One that rarely happens to when it happens, it rarely really like boosts your own listenership. So you got to create content that's connecting with your audience. So I don't ever say yes, because someone threw like a swap in there. You know what I mean? Like, if it's not a fit, it's not a fit. So I think just the big changes is being really strategic with the topic that you're suggesting.
From a logistics perspective, our pitches, the structure of them has changed a bit, to where we don't even include the client bio in the actual pitch, we put it at the very, very end. It's like, oh, yeah, a little bit more about Suzie Q. Will give like a one sentence statement, because these pitches with like two paragraphs of bios and awards, that just screams that I am not here for your people. I'm here for me.
Yeah. Oh, my gosh, there were so many mic drop moments in that just now. So y'all have to go back and listen to everything he just said. Because I'm like, trying not to aggressively nod the whole time. She's talking I'm like, Yes, like, furry chick girl, because all my gosh, like, it's so true. And especially when it comes to the way you approach a host and their audience and just being really
authentic. Because it screams like you just said it screams this is all about me when you go into this long, like, I'm amazing. And I have a number one New York Times bestseller, and this and that. And just all the things like it just goes straight into trash. Sorry.
Yeah. And then it's like a topic. It's a topic then that has like nothing to do with my show. Yes. That keeps me in business.
I'm like, Yeah, exactly. I'm like, we won't go on that rant. Because we'll be here for like seven hours. If we really talk about all the all the mistakes that Rails is making just hire Angie's just hiring Angie and her team, thank you to help y'all out because I can vouch for so many of the people that they have sent my way. And I actually want to talk about this because I recently was, I was working with someone who is it's an article not too, not too late to be braggadocious for a
second. It was like a really cool article that somebody reached out to me and they were like, Hey, have you ever considered going exclusive with this or that? And I was like, what, I don't even know what that is. And so I wanted to ask you when you're working with other people, like, is there anything in your mind that's like, Hmm, this would be a really cool opportunity for me to work, like exclusively with this person or with these type of podcast. And let me kind of
rephrase this. So I've never flat out said Angie and her team are the only people I'm going to accept guests from but there are some other companies or other hosts that do that. Is this something that you we didn't talk about this previously? So you can be like Krystal, I have no idea what you're talking about. But
no, I think I get what you're saying to where they like exclusively partner with some other almost like a brokerage for guests. Yeah, yeah. Have you ever Hale No, I would never do that. Because you don't know what kind of I mean, you don't know what kind of guests like they're going to be sharing. You don't know that. It's a good fit. I just recorded an episode yesterday in light of all of the craziness with like Spotify and Rogen. And we talked
about exclusivity. And I feel like anytime you're exclusive, whether it's like marriage or business, like you got to pick your people very, very carefully and not just for what they seem to be today, but for who you know them to protect. Actually, like transition into. And so yeah, as I hope one, I would never do that as a company either because I feel like that cuts down on who we could pitch our guests to, right. Like, we take guests in lots of different
niches. And so how do I know that these are the only shows that I would want to pitch them to? I don't know, that just to me screams of like scarcity more than abundance. And that's not how we roll.
Well, and I love I love the metaphor of like, you got to be careful, like kind of who you hitched your wagon to? Hang on, like, let's because so I just recently had someone email me to this is all like, totally like trendy, like in the moment of these things happening, because you're talking about Spotify and Joe Rogan and all these exclusivity
things. So there's a particular podcast network that has been trying to get podcasters to join and some of the big name ones, like we won't name any names, but lots of them. And I went actually looked at their website. And I was like, Oh, my, some of the shows I've been listening to for years are now on this network. And so I thought, well, I'm going to go through the application process. And so like, stay tuned for the details of what happens with
that. But I was like, I'm gonna go through because I want to see what are they actually telling other podcasters? Whether they're big shows or small shows. So I kind of want to hear like, I mean, just your thoughts on this like of going exclusive, not just now. But like in perpetuity once you join a network, they own that content? I mean, I have my own thoughts. I want to hear more about what what you think about that?
Well, there's lots of different approaches to networks to right. So there's some that do own your content. And then there's others that just offer either like ADD, share, you know, there's some incentives to help get sponsors for your show, if you might not have otherwise garnered that many downloads. It first I think it just depends on like, what is that network offering you? And
what are you offering them? It's so funny, because we have a member of the Co Op, who I think was intrigued by the same network that you are speaking of, and I think they might have two different levels to it. I believe. And so I would say the first thing going in is really understand what what am I gaining from it, right? Because there's got to be a benefit for both parties. Like they're not a
nonprofit. So they're doing it for something, they're probably going to take a cut of your ad spend, but they might open you up to sponsors and advertisers that you didn't have access to before and maybe they handle a lot of like, the behind the scenes, negotiating. You know, I don't know. I mean, I'm not in a position. It's funny. Like no one's ever approached me to be exclusive on their network. Spotify is not paying me $100 million to put go pitch yourself out. My God
is a yet out there. Not yet AMG. But it didn't
even make me think over the last two weeks because I'm launching another podcast more of like a local show. And I do see sponsors and advertisers becoming a player in that. And then I think, do I want that or would more like the listener sponsored Avenue be better so that I can continuously pump out content for people and give them what they want? And they just pay a little bit like I think those are decisions that you have to weigh as you kind of, you know, get further and further into
this industry. What's your add on it? I want your, your thoughts?
Well, okay, so it's funny, because I just want to like affirm everything that you just said, because I think that it's so important for everybody to hear that there's so many different avenues for you to go. When it comes to content creation. There's not just one way to monetize one way to get in front of people one way to market your show or one way to be as a creator. So I love that you just hit on so many different things for people
to consider. But it's funny because I think like we'll have to talk after this because I think this specific person you're talking about, and I think she's the one that reached out to me and we talked about this too. So we'll talk about that. Okay, there. But, um, I totally agree, like I think about so let's go back to smartlace. Okay, because I love what they're doing with how like the wagon that they have hitched their car to or whatever that
thing is. I'm thinking I'm totally butchering it, but I feel like you're close. You're so it doesn't even matter at this point. But you know what they have done like they are, I don't want to say oh, and I want to say they've partnered with one dri and Amazon and like they have their own kind of exclusiveness but it all it all stems down to you get it first if you listen here, but it's still available everywhere. And I think about I watch a lot of TV this isn't really like no now
they're I watch a lot of TV. A lot of movies I watch To a lot of shows all the things and I've subscribed to your Disney plus discovery, we just joined paramount because it got to watch 1883. And like we just were, we have all these different streaming services, and I will happily pay for all of them because they all offer these different pieces of content. Yep, they are exclusive, and it would make my life easier. If they're all under Netflix. They're all under
one umbrella. So that's how I approach exclusivity and content is, it's got to be really damn good. It's got to be so good that I am willing to go to this one place and listen to it consume content that way. So those are my thoughts around it. I don't like Spotify, like I've never I've never used it. It's not of like, oh, you know, burn him at the torch or, you know, burn a mistake. Again, it's just metal. For me. They're not working for me today. But I've
just I've never liked them. I've never been a consumer of Spotify. I've always used Apple Music or Amazon music. So that's that's my stance on it.
Well, so that's what I listened to my podcasts on Apple podcasts. However, I started Spotify, just to listen to music. And then inside of the Co Op, I feel like one of the most genius ideas, one of our members created a Spotify playlist. And when she pitches herself, it's her previous interviews. So host could click and see like, where she's been featured and listen. And so we've done that internally now for our clients. And I'm like, some of the features that Spotify offers are really pretty
amazing. But I still don't pull it up to listen to podcasts. It's just music. Like for me that jump hasn't been made. But you made a really good point about like the exclusivity of these television networks, or streaming services. Because when we were interviewing and I was sharing information on like Spotify, Rogen, we were trying to even come up with like a parallel analogy to like Spotify not really like controlling his content. And I think that might be one of the best examples.
Yeah, maybe I don't even know. This, like this digital world. I can't, I can't,
I can't keep up. No. And it's so funny. Because, you know, go back to the streaming services, I just think about my husband. And I remember when we pulled the plug from Direct TV, I mean, we we felt like such Renegades were like, We are trailblazers where we're this was like in 2010, or something we like we stopped and we just like all Netflix, you know, we're just gonna stream from now on Yeah. And now because we were gonna save a bunch of money. That was the
whole thing. And then now it's like, oh, my gosh, we pay for all of these different ones. And then, you know, he goes to cancel one. And it's either me or the boys were like, has our favorite show or, like, Okay, well, I'm gonna pull the plug on this one. No, no, I want one show that and he's just like, oh, my gosh, it's EPS. Yeah, culus. So crazy. I think that there's something to be said about having content that's so good that it doesn't matter. Like people will go and listen
to it. But then also as from the Creator standpoint, and as like the network or the host, or like you have to be or even a guest even guessing on someone show. And then they go and do something controversial. And you're like, I don't want to be tied to this person like Has that ever happened? Like, you know, you have someone that guest on a podcast, and then something like a big something comes out? And you're like, oh my gosh, how do I how do I take
that down? Or how do I disassociate from that person?
I haven't had it happen. Not post mortem, I don't know the saying there either. I haven't had, I haven't had it happen, like after the interview has gone live. But I, one, I do a lot of inviting for my own show. So I know that people, and we vet them a lot and even internally on our clients behalf like we ask some questions through onboarding, to get a sense, like, hey, what's like a know for you? Like what is someone that's not going to
be well aligned energy? And we say no, like I last week, I had an invitation to collaborate with someone on like a visibility opportunity. And knowing what I know about this person, and having seen some things over the past two years, I was like, I'm sorry, it's just not a good fit. Like our energies are not aligned enough to where this makes sense. And it could have been an opportunity for a client also.
But it's like a hard No. And it did help me establish like, Oh, now I know my line, you know, and I was able to actually kind of think about it a little bit more so that I now don't even really have to hem and haw next time. It's just here's my standard response. That's it. No.
Yeah, this is so so good. And I want to know, like from a guest perspective, like for you, if a pitch were to come across your desk, is it more of like, an intuition like Do you ever feel like oh, this is a hard No, but then you're kind of like full let me explore it a little bit and then you get to the end of your research. You're like no, it's definitely a no like, how does that usually play out for You.
So I'm like the worst because I teach people to pitch themselves. And I have accepted one cold pitch from someone like I really didn't know. And it took me a year and a half to actually have her on the show. Because I was like, it's we kind of fostered a bit of a relationship. And then I knew it was something I wanted to cover. But I think I just hold my audience in such high regard. Like, I don't want to risk it. And so, yeah, I don't really accept I mean, we have a
form. And that's more so that I'm not paying Courtney to like sift through craziness. So she just automatically sends them to the forum, and I look at it. And if something jumps out at me, I'll entertain it. But I mean, I'm like you like I'm so into content creation, like I already know, the topics that I want to
cover. And I have a solid network to be able to pull people from, and I will accept people who others that I trust recommend far more than someone you know, randomly pitching me, which is so awful for me to say,
no, no, it's not. It's It's so good. Because I want I want people to hear this people that are host and people that want to guest on shows because I think that this conversation is something that you and I can talk about, because we've been doing this. We've been doing this roughly the same amount of time. You started in 2017. Is that what you said?
Yeah. And then I started my show and end of 2019.
Yeah, yeah. So you we've been doing like in the trenches doing this stuff. We've seen a lot of things. We've seen a lot of ups and downs and all arounds. And so I think that we sit at a very unique vantage point where we can speak to both sides of guesting and hosting. But for someone that's listening, and they're like, Well, I'm, you know, I hate to even say this out loud, because I hope no one's really thinking this, but somebody is like, I'm a nobody, or I'm just getting
started. Is there anything that could really like make that pitch just like? Or maybe you just can we just get a pep talk? AG, we just say yep, talk of confidence right now?
Well, first of all, really to go back on like the policy, not policy thing, but us not really taking cold pitches. It is because I have such an extensive network. And so I also think people who are first stepping into guessing and pitching, you likely have some sort of network. And so you can lean on them to help you find some of those first opportunities. And then the growth happens, right? That snowball effect kind of happens.
For the people who are listening thinking I'm really new at this, I'm not an expert, no one would have me on my story is not special. One, you're wrong. And two, you just have to find the audiences to where you are an expert relative to them. Right. So I'm not an expert in podcasting, compared to Pat Flynn. But I'm an expert in podcasting to a lot of people that I know. And so those are the audiences that I pitch to.
And I come up with topics to where I am the authority on that topic, when I show up in front of that audience. So that's really all you got to do. Like if you've been in business, and someone has paid you for your service or your expertise. You were an expert for them, find other people like them, find where they are gathering and listening to podcasts and pitch those hosts because those are your people.
See, I knew you would deliver I know you would deliver when needed the motivational pep talk like I feel like that was exactly exactly what we needed today. Angie, thank you so much. Exactly like you just you lifted somebody spirits that was in the self doubt mode of just like, oh, this, I'm just getting started. So thank you so much for that. I appreciate it. Well, I want to wrap this up with us getting into our rapid fire
questions. Now. You have answered these before, and you probably don't even remember them, which is the beauty of podcasting and time happening. So I'm going to ask you these, but I'm going to put a little twist a little spin on them. Okay, are you ready? Okay, yeah. So what piece of advice would you give to a brand new content creator?
Hmm. Don't over work yourself. There's this like, content creator hamster wheel that people get on of just creating content, pushing it out, or maybe just creating content and never pushing it out. Figure out what your strategy is and who you're trying to connect with. And I know you and I have talked about this separately, but the beauty of repurposing is if you're creating content once a week, you can pull so much from those
pieces and reuse them. So just balancing the content creation with actually marketing of the content.
So, so good. Another like, I need I need the mic drop. I'm so sorry. Like, I want some sound effects. It's like the mic. But then what is the mic sound like? It sounds like some hidden in the floor. So anyway, we'll just well and be really quick.
It's good. This happens with people that podcast all the time people come in, they join the Co Op, and they want to be a guest on shows. And they're cranking out weekly content on their podcast, and they don't have the time to pitch anyone will drop to an every other week show. That's what I launched as I wanted to launch as a twice a week show. And my coach at the time was like, You're freaking crazy. Like, are you pitching yourself?
And at the moment, I wasn't. So if you're not finding time to do some of these, like outreach and growth things, then look at how much time you're spent spending in content creation, because you've got to balance them. Oh, that's
a great one, too. I think that was something took me a while to learn that so yes, very, very good. Okay, the next question is a two part question. Okay. What is the dream podcast you would love to be on? And who is your dream podcast? Guest?
Okay, does smart lists. For both? I mean, I'm in a business. Oh, it would be so great. I mean, for me, it's different because I have a business podcast. So I'm really like highlighting people that can offer things and kind of guide my listeners. I don't know, Krystal, I have to think about it. Because I do think like the show that I'm launching locally. It has more of that like dream guest, but I haven't. I don't think I've thought about it and I'm horrible with this.
Well, it's okay. You can you can send it to me later. Maybe we'll add it to the show notes. When this goes live. I'll be I mean, the show notes
Jason Bateman. Jason Bateman is literally my answer for everything.
This is so good. Yeah, I bet you subscribed to Netflix for Ozark. I'm just gonna throw that out there. Okay, the last question I have for you is Do you consider yourself a perfectionist?
I don't. I really don't. And I feel like that's why I'm able to take action pretty quickly, is because I I know that there's time to, you know, tweak it and optimize it. And I've never let that keep me back from like this new podcast. I've been saying for a long time. I wanted to do it. And it's a crunched for time. But it's in my heart. And I'm just gonna do it and make it happen. And I can make it perfect. Not really, at some other point.
Awesome. Oh, my gosh, she all like just go back and rewind everything that you just heard and listened to it all over again, because it was so good. I hope Angie and I made our conversation just as fun as one of those Smartlist conversations. Amazing. We didn't have enough obnoxious SNESs of maybe we'll work on that for next
time. I didn't haze you enough.
Exactly. Or talk about just, we just we kept it pretty like surface level and didn't get into like the inappropriateness that's what happens off off camera off, like off the scenes like yeah, behind the scenes. I did mess up a lot of metaphors today, though. So we're just gonna end on that note, but hey, Angie, tell everybody where they can connect with you. And tell us about what you're working on or what you're excited about in the coming months.
Yeah, I mean, I'm really just continuing to be excited about the Co Op, which is our membership. And it's, you know, a transition from a course to a membership. And I just feel like I found my sweet spot and how I show up for my people and the community that is being created. So the co op is my
favorite place right now. But definitely on Instagram, I'm over there at the pod wise group and the podcasts go pitch yourself is a great place to kind of connect with me and hear a little bit more about what I do and how we serve our people and how YouTube can learn to pitch yourself.
Awesome. Thank you so much for being on the show today. Angie,
thank you for having me. This was awesome. This was so fantastic.
I know I've said it like so many times. I love Angie and I am so grateful that she has come into my life through podcasting. I cannot wait until we can actually meet in person. We tried to meet up last year and one of the podcasts conferences and it didn't work out. But Angie, I cannot wait to give you a big squeeze and hug you so tight because I am so grateful to have you in my life. And yeah, this is just nothing more than an Angie love fest at
this point. But I want you to go connect with Angie and learn more about what her and her team does to help support online business owners, entrepreneurs and people that are wanting to show up on podcast. So go to the show notes. KrystalProffitt.com/episode337 to connect with Angie and her team and I hope hope that you enjoy this make sure that you take a screenshot wherever you're listening. Tag me tag Angie, let us know what you thought about today's episode.
And one more time the show notes are KrystalProffitt.com/episode337. But that's all I have for you today. So as always remember, keep it up. We all have to start somewhere.