Copywriting for Podcasters, Best Tips with Zafira Rajan

copyright symbol. And it was honestly one of those facepalm moments where I just like, just imagine like the facepalm emoji just like, Oh my gosh, because my husband is not in the online business space. Okay. Like he's an IT and he understands technology, but he doesn't have all the lingo of what copywriting is, and having an online business and how it pertains to all the things right, like maybe you are brand new to the term copywriting and you're not really sure how it fits into

podcasting. Well, I have a very, very special treat for you. today. We are having a conversation with one of my all time favorite copywriters. So let's get right to it. Welcome to the Proffitt Podcast where we teach entrepreneurs how to start launch and market their podcast. I'm your host, Krystal, Proffitt, and I'm so excited that you're here. Thanks for hanging out with me today. Because if you've been trying to figure out the world of podcasting, think of this show as the

time saving shortcut you've been looking for. So let's get right to it, shall we?

you didn't know what you were doing. You just put it all out there anyway. And yeah, I'm going back and saying I wish I had the connections back then. That I do today to some of the most just freaking unbelievable copywriters I've ever been in contact with like the kind of people where you read just an Instagram post y'all. I'm not talking about reading like a book, a whole novel on like them trying to convince you I'm talking about drooling over sales pages and reading emails. And I'm like,

Oh my gosh, I want to write like this. And that is why I wanted to bring you today's guest because that is what happens anytime I read her Instagram post and her emails and I do I drool over her

cells pages, y'all. It's so funny. So zefiro Rajan is a strategic launch copywriter and a soulful strategist who's committed to helping conscious entrepreneurs, build, grow and scale a meaningful digital Empire by wielding the power of their personality to tell stories only they know, I get asked a lot like how do you stand out and an online business? Like how can you be the authority in your field? And it's yourself. That's really

what it all comes down to? And you're going to hear so much of that in my chat was Zafira, who, by the way, was the keynote speaker at Amy Porterfield event in 2020. Yeah, she is kind of a big deal and I'm so proud to be able to call her my copywriting coach because I have learned so many incredible things for writing sales pages and writing emails from her so I will not wait to make you wait any longer because this conversation was so good. So here's my chat with Zafira.

so excited. Whenever you said you would come on to the show today to talk about copywriting. So I wanted to just start with baseline, like, let's just break it way down to the basics. What is copywriting? And what does that even mean?

your website are considered copy. any opportunity you're giving yourself or your brand to show up publicly and your words is copy. And what you're doing is copywriting. Even if that's not what you're thinking at the time, like you writing an Instagram caption is copywriting. And the realm of what that spans and includes, has grown and evolved so much over the last, you know, five to 10 years. And that's why it can be really confusing to understand, like, you know, am I a

copywriter? Do I need a copywriter? What is copy, but the simplest way I like to put it is just any any words you're attaching yourself to on the internet, I would consider a copy. This is so good. Because you know as podcasters we have our websites, and then some people will say, Well, I don't have a website, I just do show notes. Okay, well, your show notes, the title of your podcast episodes, the emails that you send out to your people like, all of this is really entrenched in

the world of copywriting. And I feel like a lot of podcasters Think of it as an afterthought. And I want them to know that it's a lot more than that, because you could create this incredible piece of content. But if your title or the episode or the thing, like that's kind of the channel to get them to listen to it is an afterthought, then it may not have the impact that you really wanted it to have. Would you agree with that? Absolutely. Yeah.

And the reason I think you probably say that is because copy is shouldn't be an afterthought, it should be strategic, it should be really rooted and grounded in your brand and how you want to be showing up consistently and the messages you want to be sharing. But I think people often treat it like a task, or some or something that's just on

their to do list. But really, I think once we all get comfortable with that level and understanding of the role copy plays in your business, it can start becoming a real joy and delight and a lot more natural arm of your voice, you know, for your audience or a podcast or is like jumping on a show and interviewing someone is really natural to

them. And you know, sitting down in front of a Google Doc probably feels a lot different if you're much more vocal, rather than like, you know, bid and how you express yourself versus on the written word. But the to have such a really beautiful opportunity to play together, especially in the podcasting world. So I'm so glad we're having this conversation, because I hope that's what people take away from it too.

your mode of getting ideas out of your head? And just starting on a project? Are you a Google Doc person? Do you like pen and paper? Like, tell us your secrets? all your secrets?

how I prep for copy. Usually like I like to have a rough outline of where I'm going and the message that I want to impart and where I'm heading. So I'll never really just start with a blank document. I'll start with even a couple of bullets. It's things we want to cover. Or I'll have like some kind of prompt to get me going. But when people are always like, oh, when you sit down in front of a blank, Google doc and you don't know what's coming next. Yeah, it's probably because

it's blank. You know, there's, there's no one feels any inspiration when they do that it's if you handed me a paintbrush and a blank canvas, I would not know what to do with it unless I was looking at a photo or I'd sketch something out in advance. So I'm a notorious like pre pre pre

prepper. And I yeah, I really do that with like, like some kind of structure or even with my projects, they're always really organized in terms of what we're tackling, and when so even the order in which you write things can make such a big difference. And we can touch on that later. But yeah, that's, that's roughly my processes. I gotta have some kind of an outline.

But I want to know, Have you always been in the online space of writing copy? Like, did you learn kind of a different approach a different, like more traditional sense of copy? And then you had to relearn a whole bunch of stuff or learn like a different way of doing this? What was that journey? Like?

having copy for those things. So in the beginning of my career, in the marketing world, it was a lot more focused on like multiple pieces of copy that were needed. They were always tied into a bigger picture, because I was also a graphic designer at the time, where I could work on the visuals, and I

could work on the words at the same time. And then as I started pivoting Out, out of a nine to five, because I really couldn't handle it for more than two years, like the entrepreneur, blood is just in my jeans, and my family had to just embrace it. I started doing stuff like social media copy, start writing blogs, I was working on other people's web copy. And you know how it is in the beginning. As an entrepreneur, you're really just take anything

that comes your way. And over time, I locked myself into a bunch of retainers, and basically replicated my nine to five again. And it was really only when I realized that my voice was getting stifled. And I didn't actually know if I had to send an email out to my list what that would even sound like because I was just buried under so many clients voices. And everyone I'd worked with before I'd never actually given myself that space to find it. So I did a writing retreat

with Laura Bell gray in Italy. A couple years ago, I just like impulsively booked that ticket. And that was the first time I realized copy is an urn writing was really about unlearning everything I had ever learned about writing and I did an English Lit degree and I grew up and can't be a journalist. And you know, I've done all of that stuff. And it always had to be so structured and

done in a particular way. And just carving out that week for myself really helped me lean into the conversational nature that coffee has today and that personality pot nature that copy should carry with it today. And then I started taking like other copywriting progress just like to get a sense of like mentorship and working with other people who were calling themselves copywriter than we're doing it in the online entrepreneur space.

And it was really by being a junior copywriter on teams by sub contracting for other copywriters and working with their clients who are very similar to the clients, I have now that I realized there was a whole other opportunity that I was looking at before. And that could be way more fun as well. There's nothing I love more than working with people who are so excited to turn their personality all the way up to 100 in their copy.

And now it's been probably about three, four years that I've been primarily working with online entrepreneurs on personality driven copy. And that's really the cliffnotes of that journey. But when I look back at it now, I just I probably wouldn't have dreamed of what I'm doing now or what I get paid to do, which is to like, have fun

with words, really. And that could have looked so different from probably even what my parents thought I would end up doing as a writer, you know, it's so hard to even, like communicate it to them. But I'm doing when I'm writing like a sales page for someone, you know, that it's such a joy, and it's such a gift. And I'm grateful for it all the time.

And something I really want to touch on is you saying you work with personality driven copy, right, because we've talked about what copywriting is, it's basically anything you put out online, anything you put out online, is by debt, by our definition, like we're saying, our collective definition, it's copy. And I have people who are in this community of podcasters, that say, that's good for you. I'm glad that you do that. However,

I have to speak in a certain way. So people take me seriously, I come from a corporate background, I come from an academic background, and I need to speak in a certain way so that I'm seen as an expert in what I do. So could you kind of speak to that and how someone can infuse their personality, even if they feel I mean, and I'm just gonna say it because people say this to me all the time. What I talk about is boring. And I don't know how I'm going to get people excited to listen to a

podcast that other people think is boring. I love it, but they think it's boring.

Absolutely. But there's so much else that's also really important today, especially if you're a

personal brand. I think what goes hand in hand with that is, it's important that I have empathy for my audience as important that they feel connected to who I am on a human level, it's also important that they see me as someone that they can have an open conversation with someone that they can reach out to someone that they're excited to collaborate with someone that they're excited to listen to on the podcast, and really feel like they know, like see and understand you beyond the

level of what you do and what you offer and the advice that you give. And that really like comes down to drilling in on your personality and how you can bring that to the surface a little bit more. So let's say you know, you're a podcaster, who talks about health and wellness, and you're an expert on I don't know, gut bacteria, or something that some people know you for. That's something

you've always been an expert in. Probably there are some things about you that your audience would love to know that aren't necessarily connected to that. But then make them really remember you and like make sure that you're top of mind for them. So the easiest ways to sprinkle personality into your coffee or how you're showing up is any kind of pop culture reference. So you know, like what TV shows? Are you watching? What music do you

listen to? What books are you reading, those are all things you can put in your bio on your about page, something you can slip into on a podcast and mention anything related to your childhood self or your hobbies or things that you used to do that you still do now. And those are just like really fun little ways or things that are like weird about you. I love talking about your weird and how

you can find that. And you know, if you do one thing after this podcast, just text your best friend, or get up and ask your spouse or your partner or someone that you live with what they find really funny, interesting, weird about you maybe what their first impression of you was like when they first met you. And you'll be really

surprised by the answers they give you. And those are all really great things to start weaving into your copy on your website, on your bow page, maybe even on your podcast bio, but also to start sprinkling through conversations in your podcast. And the reason what I mean those might sound really fluffy or there you might sound and that might sound like, you know why is that important to my audience? How does that make me show up as

an expert? what you're really doing is what I do called like a bit of a ping pong effect, you're like throwing something to your audience that they can hit you back with, you know, playfully. And every time I mentioned, for example, that, you know, I used to watch Game of Thrones or that I was obsessed with Harry Potter and I was pretty much like her mining in the library all the time

as a kid. And that's still the same. Now I just am constantly reading, when I get on calls with people, or when people send me emails, or they reach out to me on Instagram, they will gravitate to those little bits of my personality, because that's what helps them feel seen and understood. Like, oh my gosh, yes, I am such a fan of dinners, too, you know, etc, etc. Or, oh, my God, like my

kids just started reading Harry Potter. And now it feels like it's come full circle, because I've been a fan my whole life, or a little things like that. So I think we can just have a little bit more fun with our rent than we used to before. And it doesn't put you at risk of being taken less seriously anymore. Because there's so much competition out there, there are a million people you could be listening to there a million podcasts

that people could be downloading. But when people think about what sets you apart, it's not necessarily going to be what you're an expert at, or what your niche is, it's going to be who you are on a human level. So you know, not being afraid to lean into that a little bit more, even in your emails or wherever, like I said, copies sprinkled throughout the internet, you'll be really surprised by just how much people resonate

with those little details about who you are. And I mean, I'm sure you know that Krystal, because I've been talking about personality for a long time. And your world too, but I'm sure you you resonate with that as well.

it's very canned, like it's super templated. And like, okay, insert product here, insert what you do here insert, so it's very, like, just drop in your words. And it's like, oh, it's the exact same thing that the person teaching, it wanted me to say it just has my template and I'm like, okay, it doesn't really get me excited, but it's there. It's kind of like a checkbox, like, okay, check. I

did it, let's move on. But whenever I started working with Zafira, like, if you've ever seen like my course of Profit for Proffitt Podcasting, I was so inspired because you asked so many different questions in the kit, where you're like, Okay, what's your favorite show? Like, what's something weird, quirky about you, and like, all these things, and I was like, I love Friends. I want to put all of it. I've always had this, like, kind of, it's like, right underneath the surface,

like, I want to talk about friends a lot more. But I don't, because again, going back to what, you know, people in the audience are feeling they're like, people are gonna think I'm dumb. Or people are gonna be like, Oh, she's just so fluffy, and doesn't have any, like real depth to her. Because she's just talking about these fluffy ideas. I have gotten more comments about people saying, like, I love that you talk about friends. And you talk about, you know, Joey doesn't share food on

your sales page, because it just cracks me up. It made me laugh so hard. So I learned that from Zafira. You guys like she's the one that taught me how to do that. So thank you so much. But I want to just like ask, like, on the most basic level, how can we besides just like asking, you know, like, what are some of our quirks. So let's say everyone listens to this. This is your assignment, y'all. By the way, you got it. You got to go ask

what is this? What is a weird quirk or something that is like the first impression that you had on other people that you're surrounded with? What do we do with that information? Like, do we need to start really sharing like, okay, I just I've never really talked about this part of me, do I just send an email to my list? Do I just kind of inched

my way in by posting on social media? Like what is kind of the next baby step that someone would take in getting more comfortable writing this kind of copy?

putting it out there. So one simple way you can do it is, let's say you have your weekly newsletter that you've sent out to your list, add into your PS like, oh, PS, this week, I started rewatching Season Five of friends because, you know, like, I just really needed some comfort TV and like, given the state of the world, like I think we're all doing that right now. Um, What have you been bingeing or watching or reading lately, like, hit reply. And let me know. That's like a really

simple way to start the conversation, right. And it doesn't have to take away from the actual content of the email. on social media, we all do those intro posts, after a while where you re introduce yourself to your audience, especially after you've been getting a bunch of new followers. So maybe on Instagram, you're like, hey, it's been a while since I introduced myself

on here. I'm Krystal. And here are a couple of like, you know, fun things about me, like, I love friends and blah, blah, blah, and a bunch of other things and then explaining what you do. But that's a really easy way to weave it in there. And then on your about page, I really like to have a section at the end where it's kind of like rapid fire, but with yourself. So, you know, for someone like you could say something like, when I'm not recording podcasts, or like running around after

my kids, here's where you can find me doing. And I could even just be like, three to five, like fun facts about you. So there you've like, already sprinkled it in three different places. And that's just like, those are really like small, easy ways. But I love doing it in emails in particular, just because the things you love are things you're constantly doing. And you know, believe it or not like your audience wants to know all the stuff,

you're doing all the things you're into. I don't know if you've ever watched those YouTube videos like on Vogue, or those other channels where they're like, celebrities reveal what's in their handbag. Or like what they've packed for stuff. I'm obsessed with those videos, and so many people are because we're nosy. We want to know what you're up to, you want to know what you like, we want people to tell us what to like, we want

people to give us recommendations. That's why we're always saying things like you have to watch this TV show or you have to watch this book. So in my weekly emails, I really like to just sprinkle in, like what I'm up to, maybe I'll even lead with that as part of like a story like I was, you know, in the middle of reading this book, when I started thinking about, you know, an idea for like my group program. And then that's like, the email

becomes about the group program. But what I started with was a book and the replies are most likely going to be about people who wrote that book, or the Oh, thanks for that recommendation, adding it to my list. So I think it's the easiest way to get into the habit of like learning to leave it in a bit more strategically. Someone who does this really well, that I mentioned is Laura Bell gray, if you're not subscribed to her list,

her emails are super filled with personality. But I also feel like I always know what Laura is doing. Like I know, she went to the grocery store and have like a million samples, or I know like her coffee order or like little things like that, you know, but what you're really doing is building the Bank of what people connect to you and other

things with and makes you more memorable. You want people to see stuff out in the world and be like, oh, that made me think of crystal that made me think of the fear out once someone starts sending you messages like that, especially people you don't know, that's when you know, you're doing a good job.

their names and this and that. But I also want to be connected with my audience. And I feel like you just shared so many incredible examples of, hey, you've talked about your favorite salad that you'd like to get when you go out to eat or your favorite drink order. What you're watching on TV. And I love that you said that, you know you start emails that way, because people ask me all the

time about email marketing. And when they're getting started with our podcast, email marketing sounds just so overwhelming, because they're like, I just spent all my creative energy creating this podcast. What am I supposed to say about it? Like, they should just go listen to the podcast? Why do I have to continue to, you know, engage with them on this level? So what does email marketing mean

for you? And how necessarily do you teach that to someone who's just, let's just be honest, y'all are stubborn about this, you don't want to send like you don't want to do emails. So what would you say to someone that's listening, that they're like, severe, I really just don't want to do it and it's hard and I just, I just, I can't afford to hire a copywriter to do this for me every week. What kind of advice would you get for them?

years. But what I have realized not only as someone who sends emails, but someone who writes emails for clients, and it's just really immersed in this world, out of all the opportunities, we have to connect with our audience, you know, podcasting being one of them, if you're a

podcaster. Email is the only remaining thing where your audience is guaranteed to read what you have to say, when you post stuff on social, it gets dissolved, you're still dependent on an algorithm, you don't really even own all that data and all those followers, some can unfollow you in a second. But when someone is on your email list, that is really the most sacred relationship you can have with an audience today. And I think it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

So for me, when I look at emails, and I also hear from folks like, I really have to do this, what I like to say is, if you want your message to be heard, this is the only guaranteed way to continue doing it without being you know, at the risk or at the behest of someone else controlling how that

information gets delivered to your audience. And you know, when I think about all the time have poured into social before, and all of that ended up being so temporary, and I think about, you know, the emails I send out on how many more replies I get, like up to a week, you know, even after I've sent it or how much more memorable it

is. It's also the thing with emails that once you're reading an email, that's all you're doing, you're not distracted by like all the other things that are going on, or the noise that's happening. That is one thing, you can maybe just take a cough, sit down with a coffee and read someone's email, really digest that message. So if you're going to put any energy into copy, if you're going to put any energy into writing anything, save it for your email list, you can repurpose that stuff

for social. But that's where I like to put my energy first, and I totally get how like, burned out podcasters mess feel after just recording the whole episode, you're like, Well, that was the energy, that's where it went. And you know, you might not have to do it right. After a few batches, you might have more time to actually sit

down and write the emails. But something I see a lot from podcasters is those, those podcast emails feeling really transactional or feeling like very same from week to week that I stopped getting excited about opening them anywhere, because like, well, this doesn't tell me anything different than if I was just to go into my podcast app and see that you uploaded a new episode. And I think what people really want is a reason to listen. And they

also want to really ground that episode. In the current context, you know, of what's happening day to day, and I think emails let you do that. Especially what's happening, you know, constantly, politically what's happening just in your world, or what's been developing, you know, attaching or like connected, create a connection between that and what you're sharing that week is a really more powerful way to give people a reason and give them an incentive to listen to what you've got that we

can make it really relevant. And I think that's where email can do that job for you. And it doesn't have to be such a crazy thing, right? You know, Krystal, for example. you're interviewing me about copy. Maybe the way you talk about this in your email is, Hey, you know, I've been, you know, I've been bought felt Buxton with coffee before, and I never knew I could lean into my personality up until recently. That's what made me reach out

to Zafira. And she's on the show this week. But already we have like a bit of a backstory about your intention behind the episode and how we connected through all these different people like people actually really appreciate knowing those little things. First is like, Hey, have you ever struggled with coffee? Well, this week's episode is gonna show you exactly what to do, you know? And that's really the difference there. Right?

online is really through your emails. But if you're not nurturing that relationship, if you're not getting comfortable emailing or leaning into your voice and you're depend on other channels, or you just show up when you're selling something or your voice completely changes when you start selling something versus the public. test email, your audience is going to be able to tell. So the earlier you start, the better, it's always going

to be a work in progress. Whether that's consistency or leaning into your voice, I'm not perfect either. But the best you can do is try and if at least one person replies to your emails, because this was, this really helped me or I really resonated with your message, your job is done. That's all you have to do is just support

one person in one way. And as soon as I started adopting that mentality, didn't matter to me anymore when sending an email to hundreds or 1000s of people, because I know it's not going to be for everyone. If you get unsubscribers we all know now it's a good thing, right? And I don't go and look in and see exactly who they are anymore, and then get really mad and be like, well, I thought we were friends. Or you've been on the email list for so long. Why did you unsubscribe? Like, I just

don't have time for that now. But I have time for the people who respond and who are really happy and who, who open them regularly, are just along that journey with you. So that's, that's my rant on email.

They're like, wait, you don't batch those? And like, you know, like, for time efficiency, and I'm like, nope, if I'm on vacation, if I'm any, like, I handwrite my emails, because it's how that message flows out of me. And I get so many replies that people will say, I feel like you wrote this just for me. Because that is my intention. Like it's a love letter, like I am writing like I'm writing to a friend. And it's just, it's my style.

That is not everybody's style. And you know, I know that not everybody will get on board with that. But it's just it, I had to do what made it easier for me. So if anybody's listening and everything that Zafira, just said, really resonated with you, I want you to take little bits and pieces of other people's style of writing emails and say, What do I love about this? What do I not love about this? And how can I kind of create this in my own voice? So I'm curious,

because I'm actually on your email list? How often do you send emails? Is it just once a week? Or do you do you send more than that.

never send it. And then I just upload it for the next day to be scheduled on and that's it. That's huge. If, if I'm in the flow, I'm feeling good by the field creative, I'm not overwhelmed. I'm not burned out. That's really ideally what happens. But when I am tired, when I am exhausted, when some weeks just feel too heavy, I don't send any emails. And that's okay, too. You know, because I think at the end of the day, we're all real

humans. And people get it. And I also just try to be really sensitive to how much people are consuming or what's happening in the world to know, am I just like adding noise to the spectrum right now? Do people really need this at the moment Can I hold off, but also just not writing for the sake of it. So, you know, I know everybody preaches a weekly email newsletter. And I would very much like to do the same for myself because I

see the benefits. But I also like to preach the benefits of being the most rested, creative, compelling human you can be and sometimes that means you need a few weeks to recharge those batteries before you do that again. And what have also learned and I'm sure you have is that while it's important to be showing up consistently, it's also you know, your audience doesn't really notice when you're gone and they've got so much more going on in their lives. No one's walking around,

thinking widened. Severe, I sent me an email this week, you know, unless I bring it to their attention and I'm like, I'm so sorry guys. I've been like, so burned out. Like I would never say that I would just slip right back in if it's been a while and that's like, please do that. You know, you've got to do your list. For some time. It's

okay. It's totally fine. But yeah, I when it comes to consistency, I often say just create something that works for you and really works for you not what works for everybody else, and experiment with it and test it out. Like for me, the Monday thing took a while to get to but now it's like, I kind of have a ritual around it. So I get in the headspace to sit down and actually do that. I love that you can write your emails, I think that's like so meta, I'm very into it, and I've started.

And just yeah, figuring out what works for you. And there's no wrong or right answer, the right answer is just being able to do it on your terms. You know, I wish someone had told me that a long time ago, otherwise, I would have saved me a lot of guilt for

Like we have a lot of very ambitious people. But we also have, you know, ends if you're and I we were talking about this earlier, we're both kind of rule followers to like, so it's like we want to have like, okay, you do A, B and C, don't skip down to T unless you've done everything else in between. And so for anybody that's listening, I hope that you just heard you have permission to do this, how it works for you. Because I wish I would

have heard that too. Whenever I first started, there was so much stress around that I do it every week, I got to do it this way, I got to put my product in the boxes, you know, to have a great sales page, and I got to do it live. But when you take a step back and say how can I make this fun? I heard you saying that so much earlier, like I have so much fun with my clients, I have so much fun writing and for me creatively. That's what I feel like it's all about, it's all about the fun,

and infusing your personality. But I am going to bring this up since I was like, Oh my gosh, I had this is one of my questions to ask you way earlier and we're just talking about it. You just took a month off like world what is even life? This sounds incredible. So I mean, if you want to go see like go follows if you're on Instagram, because she talked about so many awesome things that she did. I was like vicariously like texting you like on Instagram, like, Ah, it's so pretty

today. Like it looks incredible. But what was your biggest takeaway, or something that you learned about yourself whenever you took a month off of your business?

into it. But the biggest takeaway that I learned is to really just listen to what I need when I take time off. And this is the first time I've taken time off and not planned travel, or planned something really like, you know, to pack a suitcase and go and do stuff. Like I went to like an Airbnb, 15 minutes away from my house and did that. But because of COVID you know, you can't really go anywhere since the first vacation where it's like, well, I'm not working, what do I want

to do? And it was really weird to have that time to be honest. And in the beginning, I was started you know, putting that pressure on myself and wanting to follow those rules and be like, Okay, well, we've been wanting to write a book, and maybe we'll start like writing stuff or we've been wanting to do paintings. Let's try that. But to be honest, and I share this on my Instagram like after the second week after I went down I just passed out like I just went to sleep. I call it a

sleep vacation. I highly recommend like that's sometimes the only reason you need I was beyond surprised how much sleep I needed because it's not that I sleep little like I sleep seven to eight hours a day, which is pretty good by most standards. But after I really started shutting my brain off, you know, I was sleeping for stretches and stretches of hours I never used to be a napper I was napping. So really my body just needed that time out you know, and also disconnecting from

email and disconnecting from the phone. And like social media from time to time, I was like deleting Instagram every two days. And just like living without it and it was beautiful. So I think actually taking time off during a pandemic, if you can do it is such a gift because I think it's a rare opportunity to see what your body really really does need. If I had planned a month off any other time out of travel 2 million different

places. I would have still got an energy you know there Way, like inspired and creative and, but they would be doing stuff constantly, you know, and I think there's like a lot of shame around doing nothing. But I'm really proud to say that I did nothing for a month. And it was wonderful. I watched like all of Schitt's Creek again...

before events felt like super long to take off. So that was really fascinating to me, that that was my time up.

resonate so much with you. Because you do share very openly about how you run your business. Like why you are such a heart centered entrepreneur. I don't know if you call yourself that. It's what I call you. Like you're a very in tune with how you serve people and how you show up. And it's very honest. And I just I so appreciate everything that you do and all the things so you'll have to go follow as if you're on Instagram and see all the cool things that she does. And what's your dog's

name? I do remember seeing...

Donald Glover. Who goes by Childish Gambino and that's I think he's a genius and everything that he does as like an actor, as a writer, as an artist, but he's really strange and funny and weird in his interviews, so I kind of feel like that would be a cool conversation. Like you just showed the interview with like, like barefoot and like with this shirt off and he just like sits cross legged on the couch and they'll just talk about whatever. So yeah, I would love to have a conversation with him.

more. So I want anybody that's listening to just know, like, if you hold yourself to a certain standard, like we all do it, we all do it. And sometimes it's for like, like you said, like evolving to a next level. But sometimes it's like, Hey, you know, I had to grow out of that. And I had to step away. And I just realized it's never perfect. And if you listen to this show, you know that things are not perfect around here most of the time, but we have a lot of fun. And that is what matters. So

I hang out at most Instagram @Zafira.Rajan, so, me and Krystal chat on there all the time, I'm always happy to have conversations with anyone and everyone. So please feel free to connect and say hi.

I've heard from different people. But the way that she says it the way that she teaches copywriting it gives me an ease like my shoulders relaxed. Now whenever I go to write a sales page when I go to write an email, as opposed to staring at like the Google Doc like blinking cursor of death, right? Y'all have heard me talk about this before where I just like, Oh my gosh, like it freaks me out. When

I sit down to write and it's just so stressful. If that is you, I no longer want this to be an issue. I want you to feel confident. I want you to be really bold in your storytelling and how you approach showing up online because y'all has podcasters we have so much we have to write right we have our podcast titles. We have our episode descriptions, we have our show notes. We have our websites like there are so many places that copywriting shows up in the podcasting journey.

And if you need help with that, please reach out to Zafira because I'm telling y'all like she is a marketing genius and I love reading all the things that she writes because it makes me feel like I'm connected to her. I feel like I know her from her writing and that is what strategic copywriting really truly is. So I hope that you had some incredible takeaways from today's interview, make sure you go to the show notes,

KrystalProffitt.com/episode258. To learn more about Zafira go follow her on Instagram and follow along with her dog. She just recently adopted a new dog and they live in on the coast in Canada. And it's just so gorgeous. I love following her Instagram stories and she'll like sometimes she just like records the ocean waves and I'm like, oh, like this is the like little hint of the ocean

that I needed today. So go follow the fear and make sure that you connect with her and even consider hiring her for your copywriting coach because she is absolutely incredible. I know. I feel like I'm just vain girling at this moment, but you know, she knows she's gonna listen to this. Yeah, you know, you know that I'm a huge fan of yours. And I love all the things that you have taught me as Zafira. So thank you again for such an incredible chat today. But again, go to

KrystalProffitt.com/episode258. To connect with sephirah and learn more about her quiz that she has. I'm gonna have a link to it in the show notes. But that's all I have for you today. So if this is your first time tuning in, make sure you follow the podcast wherever you're listening. Leave us a rating and a review. Let us know what you thought about today's episode. And, as always remember, keep it up. We all have to start somewhere