248: Colleen Ballinger's Miranda Sings: Behind the Headlines of this PR Crisis

The ukulele was being played by someone who was in the middle of a public relations crisis . The opus I wrote was all about the fact that YouTube creator Colleen Ballinger , the performer known as Miranda Sings , was not singing in a PR response . She was in the middle of a PR crisis and there was silence .

I spent a long time writing a script about why I thought that mistake was a bad mistake and how could she possibly do anything worse . Well , she did She got a ukulele . With the rise of social media , anyone can become a celebrity overnight .

However , with fame comes increased scrutiny and internet celebrities , and anyone really is not immune to accusations of bad or inappropriate behavior . In recent years , there's been a lot of people who've been accused of a lot of things People who are known online , people who are YouTube creators , TikTok creators .

Of course , we have celebrities , we have people in the news and we have regular people , just private citizens . Their actions end up somewhere online and then , sure enough , they end up in a news story . So in this episode I'm going to discuss a recent case . It's a case study about Colleen Ballinger and her PR crisis that she is dealing with now .

If you have the time , this is a recording of a live stream that I did last week on YouTube Because I was without a podcast . It was already recorded , it was done , it was produced It was great , by the way But it was nullified because part of the podcast was all about the fact that she didn't do a response to her PR crisis .

This crisis is about allegations against her for grooming , And when you hear the word grooming , many people think of sexual grooming . They think of sexual inappropriate behavior , But grooming , by definition , is like a predatory term that can be used for a number of different reasons , But it's one that has painted Colleen Ballinger into a corner .

So in this episode I want you just to drop in on a live stream that I did last week . It was a little over an hour And I'm talking about what she went through , what the allegations are , the press stories about it and then this new ukulele response that I have never seen before .

It's a new type of PR crisis protest song where she's going to deny everything that happened , and she's going to do that with a ukulele . Take a listen Now . Colleen Ballinger for those of you that don't know , she has a successful blog account , So she has two brands . Really , there is the Miranda Sings but there is Colleen Ballinger .

But most know her from her sketch character that debuted in 2008 , which I was surprised to hear . It went that far back . You've seen all the photos the almost vaudevillian lipstick around her lips . This look back . Dark hair , the exaggerated caricatures , the singing you know all of this . The off key . She's rude , She's entitled , but she can sing .

It's cringy , internet humor , millennial humor . It's also someone who started out on YouTube and I think a lot of people assumed I know I assumed that she was just a YouTuber who just kept at it , kept out and became famous . But that's not the case And this is important with her that Colleen Ballinger should be framed what she is . She's a trained performer .

She's not just some random person that decided to hop on YouTube . She trained for it in college . She majored in vocal performance in college , So then she fell into the social media YouTube ecosystem . Megan Conley . Yes , I love that . Every PR crisis is a social media crisis . You can stamp that , you can tattoo it everywhere .

That will not change for a long , long time . James did a deep dive this morning . It's really unsettling That is a good word for it , because it is unsettling because of what the headlines are For the people who weren't familiar with her , like when I first Googled , I saw Colleen Ballinger grooming . That's third rail .

If you ever heard me talk about third rail PR crises , that's third rail . It's when you touch it and you get that jolt . And it's really , really difficult to recover from third rail PR crises without a very well-structured , well-written , well-intentioned response . Did we get that ? We'll discuss that . So at the height of her popularity in 2016, .

So Miranda Sings was one of the faces of YouTube , stardom her audience . This also matters When they're younger and when we're talking about millions of subscribers , when younger people latch onto a brand and they get excited . Right , These are younger people . We're coming , we're pre-pandemic , we're pandemic .

Our kids aren't in school anymore and they're just watching people and they're becoming closer and closer and closer to these personalities , But they're still in that parasocial stage . So now , with someone like Ballinger . She's a performer , So she's thinking about how she needs to leverage what her talent is . She used to work at Disneyland .

She used to be a part of Disney's Playhouse , which was a throwback to me when I had kids and I would plop them in front of Disney Playhouse . She was high school musical three in Disneyland . She trained kids on piano .

She is a performer , which also means she's a paid performer , which also means she's a professional , And that's where this crisis kind of deviated for me a little . I thought we were just dealing with a YouTuber , with someone who just got famous overnight and they really weren't equipped to handle what was happening to them . Colleen is a paid performer .

She's still young , I mean , she's still learning , but that makes a big difference . Okay , All right . So now as she's starting to collaborate and she's starting to get bigger , I talk about , like this media ecosystem . It sounds , yeah , So I know people are starting to explain to people like what's going on . Yeah , So , as it sounds , you know how she started .

She was always thinking like a business person and a brand . I mean , this isn't fluke , That's what I'm getting at And there's a framing here that is leading to this place where people who are paid performers , who are professionals , are in a different lane somewhat when it comes to the response and what reasonable people believe about them .

So as she moves forward and she's in the social media realm , social media she's not quite like . There's this bar , there's this waterline that I have when it comes to media . There's digital media , there's social media , there's digital media news .

This is usually consumed by digital natives , a lot of digital natives , And then you have people you know , like me , who kind of dip in there And then the line is like legacy media .

So your , your national newspapers broadcast news , so Washington Post , Wall Street Journal , New York Times , New York Post , when you get into that mainstream press , television broadcasts , and we have this line . Everything that was happening with her was kind of under the line .

Okay , So everybody's kind of talking about her under here , but then she kind of pops up like she did a little Broadway . She's a little waitress interviewed by Stephen Colbert , you know . So she makes these pops and like a Stephen Colbert .

They might be doing that because they want to appeal to younger people , So that's why that she's , you know she's , she's pulling up there , but she's still a brand that is kind of in that social media realm . Now , why this matters is I with with my clients and in my work I do an assessment to figure out okay , what's the landscape ?

Are we dealing with a media ecosystem that's mainstream or are we still pretty social ?

So in the just recently , I was dealing with a client who's dealing with a crisis that spilled over into TikTok land and as we were monitoring and watching it and watching it , what I wanted to do is their PR person like I just want to keep it with the digital , want to keep it just social media digital . People can complain online .

That's fine , But we don't want reporters to come in and nab it and bring it and make it bigger . So that's what we're always watching . Yes , She had a Netflix show as well . Okay , So now let's move forward into all of this . Do people tend to come up and thank you for explaining who she is in the chat ?

I appreciate that you're all doing that , As she's moving up and becoming more popular and she's starting to build her brand . when you have brands like that , you make money . You make some serious , serious money . Money is going to be a factor as well . That's going to come into our ukulele response All right .

When people start to rise , they like to bring people with them . Second bananas work when you bring family around . Jimmy Kimmel brings his family in there . Howard Stern has Rod and Quivers . Conan O'Brien had Andy Richter . You think about all of the little second bananas out there .

Also , in YouTube land right now we have a lot of people that just have Joe Rogan , for instance . It's not just Joe Rogan , He has his team of people . That's like a format choice that people make . Colleen chose to do the exact same thing .

She brought in her team , So she had her best friend Corey , She had her ex-husband Joshua , She had her brother Trent Ballinger in there . So it's people who you can bounce off of and you can banter off of . But when your team is in the private space and all of a sudden they're public , the guardrails are a little different .

Okay , because they're not professional performers , They're not pros , They're just people who are online . So now sometimes you wonder like , what are the judgment calls ? Yes , HuffPost enters the chat . Yes , dandelion , official , it did So .

Now , when you have other people coming in and they are not paid performers , what you're getting now is a different sense of the landscape . You're getting a different sense of what she's operating in . Colleen is operating in a space where she's the professional performer , but she's also with people who are not . She's surrounding herself with that .

She's also swimming through a sea of followers and chats and live streams and all these parasocial relationships of people worshiping her and telling her that she's amazing . So what does that do psychologically for someone ? The moment where you get big is a very important moment , because it and actually you know who said something like this was Emily Rose .

I've had Emily on my podcast and I saw something that she posted on Instagram yesterday and she had said the moment that a person hits their fame , that's when you kind of permanently seal in your maturity level , which I thought was quite remarkable . When I heard that , I thought , oh , that makes sense .

So you kind of operate in this bubble And so your judgment is no longer dictated by common sense anymore . It's dictated by the people you're surrounding yourself with . So all of your fans who love her are you saying in her sister too , in her sister law Okay , thank you for sharing that And all of her fans .

So what happens is your radar starts to move , your moral code starts to move , things start to shift and you kind of lose sight of the horizon if I could throw every metaphor in there And people start to make poor judgment calls when they are in a public space . Add to that a live environment , people interacting , and sometimes people do things off the cuff .

It's unprepared . So this is the type of environment that creates an environment where you can be exposed and where you can make mistakes , And then people will latch on to those mistakes and then do something with it .

Now , with Miranda , we have the cracks are starting to form And , as many of you are talking about in the chat here and you're explaining and thank you so much for telling people what they're doing we're starting to see the behavior points here .

It says if Colleen and my research and looking and watching and following what other people are saying as well is these questionable interactions start to come up . As Jodi's pointing out , it's one person does one thing and there's a reaction in an audience , or one person does another thing and there's a reaction online and everybody loves it .

And we keep pushing and pushing and pushing and the behavior becomes riskier and riskier and riskier . What's happening there's even psychologically . You're getting these dopamine hits . As they happen , You almost get addicted to the charge And when behavior like this goes unchecked , it continues because there's a reward system .

Someone on YouTube is going to make more money . They're going to get more likes , more followers , more share , more interactions , more popularity , more money . I do think what Colleen was trying to do , though I don't know this , but by looking at her business choices , she wanted to be mainstream , She wanted to be marketed .

When you have a Netflix show , you're mainstream . So when we start pushing them , then we get sponsorship . Next thing , you know , she could get another streaming show . She could be on a broadcast network , whatever it is . She's going to movie full feature , whatever it is .

There's aspirations there , But when aspirations mix with poor judgment , mix with no adults in the room , you have a perfect place where you can get into , where you can get into trouble . Okay , So now let's get into the crisis . So thank you for bearing with me and thank you for everyone in the chat .

Dandelion fish on my dear , thank you so much for helping people out here . It's like you're working as my producer , like telling people and all the other people who are explaining it . So thank you . So all right . So this is good . So now let's go into the situation itself .

Every PR crisis has the markings that I noticed And I've been following these for a long , long time . And for any of you who haven't met me before , I know anything about my background is I do have a media background . I've worked in the journalism side , the news side . I've also worked in public affairs and public relations .

I was ahead of crisis communication for the cruise line industry in Washington DC And then I also worked for the federal emergency management agency for a number of years . What is somewhat interesting about my career path , It's not so much what I did , but when I did it . I worked when the internet was .

I was in school when the internet first came out and studied it and then started working . And then I was at FEMA when social media was starting to hit . So I have been watching social media interactions , how it relates to public relations , for well over 10 years . I have been fascinated by this and I still watch it .

And then , when I got on TikTok , I mean here's the secret . I'm not on it because I think it's a blast and I love it .

It's terrifying to be on there , to be honest , but I learned so much And I learned from watching and I learned from watching other crises happen and I learned from people just like you , you know , sharing information and giving me your feedback and telling me what you think , What works , what doesn't .

When this thing happened yesterday , when the , when I looked at that ukulele , it wasn't just me thinking I thought , well , what do other people think of this ? And I and gosh , 99% of you think the same way . Okay , Now , every single crisis has I call them like a supporting protagonist . It's a character in a story that creates the story .

So you could think of , like , just think of a lot of crises that are out there . If you go back to I don't know why this is coming to me , I don't know . Maybe I just saw her on social media , but Julia Roberts was in the movie Aaron Brockovich . Like , Aaron Brockovich was someone who . There was a movie about her and she's the one that was looking at .

You know the water and how a company P&G was was tainting the water . There's usually someone who kind of creates and disturbs the environment . So nowadays in social media , a lot of those people are just people on social media . There's people on the other end . No , Dandelion official , You don't want to be my producer ?

Don't worry , I'm not going to make you do anything , But there's always someone who is in a parasocial relationship in some cases , but it's someone who's watching from the outside or they're they're a customer or consumer .

There's someone who's attached to it Okay , So they have buy-in , Whether it's a company or a brand , or a celebrity or a YouTube star , you can define them in any way , right , Like a fan , a customer , a follower , a viewer , whatever it is there's always someone . When that someone feels victimized in some way , that's when the problems begin .

There's usually always a victim . So every single client I work with , I always want to . I always get to this question and I ask them we have to identify who the victim is , And people struggle with that because they think of someone being run over by a car or assaulted or hurt . Like , we don't have a victim like that .

We just have people who are mad at us online like no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no . Someone is not happy . Okay , That someone could be a mole within the organization . It could be a parent , It could be whatever . I was reading an article this morning about a coach of a high school in Minneapolis .

Used to be a college player , big time hockey player , and the hockey parents didn't like them . So a couple anonymous hockey parents like those were the victims . Their daughters weren't getting enough ice time . So you know what it's the end I'm saying There's always a victim . So the victim in this case our protagonist , was Adam McIntyre .

So at the time that he connected with Colleen , he was 10 years old , an Irish kid who lived in Brighton , Brighton , England , or , as they say , even in Boston , Brighton , And it was . It was Adam McIntyre is the one who had this parasocial relationship . But here's where we start to delve into the problems and the choices that Ballinger made .

That parasocial relationship became a personal relationship when there was interacting . So , in other words , Adam McIntyre was able to break through the fourth wall , And when you do that , that's when the relationship changes , And Ballinger has admitted that that was a mistake to do that . It gets dicey when you do that . So now we have Adam , who's growing up . Now .

Adam was bullied in school , He was struggling in school , but he found solace in YouTube and YouTube characters , And Ballinger being one of those people , definitely So , Oh , I see that you're talking about Trent . You're talking about the brothers , Yes , Okay . So anyone who's not aware of what's going on definitely go into this chat .

There is very , very good explanations happening in there . So now Adam is the one who's coming forward . So Adam is the one who posted videos to YouTube and Adam is the one who is being quoted in a very , very damaging story . There's a lot of stories out there , but the one that I read in Rolling Stone was a good account of what is happening Now .

That story is written by CT Jones and I'm familiar with CT Jones work . They do culture reporting , viral things happening on the internet , like a lot of newsbeats out there . It all becomes about culture and the internet . So CT's story really dives deep into what happened . Interviewed Adam McIntyre . Now I'm looking for in the interview .

I'm looking for these words that tell me what happened and why it happened . Okay , So now we have . I want to read you part of the quote in this story . Now also CT the reporter here .

They did speak to four other fans and said that Ballinger had the same access where she kind of opened the door , gave fans behind the scenes view of what was happening there . So the reporter just didn't speak to one person . So they did a good job there .

Also important to note in the story , Ballinger , Trent and DeSoto did not respond to multiple requests for comment from Rolling Stone , So the effort was definitely put in there to contact them . Okay , Now let's also talk about a few other people in terms of putting it in context , because the Rolling Stone story talks about this as well .

The HuffPost article was really detailed as well . Yes , 100% , Holly Burgess . I do not believe she has a PR team . I have to do a pin in that because I got to come back to that . That's a great question because we're going to talk about was there a PR team involved ? Okay , Not the first time that YouTubers faced backlash .

So I want to look to see what happened when James Charles dealt with this experience , or Onision James Jackson . How did he respond to that ? Now , even Jackson was being sued by people and he was being accused of similar things , of grooming , but of more of a darker angle to that . So he's denied the claims and he's scheduled for mediation in 2023 .

Now , in terms of the age of consent , in the UK it is 16 . In the US it's generally ages 16 to 18 , depending state to state . Another example would be Andrew Callahan .

I featured him in a podcast , episode 224 , Analyze , in the Apology Statement , the Andrew Callahan example And , diving into that episode , I looked at his response as well and what he did Now , what he was accused of again parasocial relationships but then , when he would show up at places or speak with women online , those parasocial relationships became real

relationships And Callahan was emotionally abusive , sexually inappropriate with women . And then they came out and said something as well . Callahan responded , but did not respond on his big channel . Responded to a small personal YouTube channel with only 7,000 subscribers .

So , Alyssa , with the night , the girl came forward saying she felt really violated , that men made uncomfortable comments to her in the parking lot . Oh , is this with Colleen ? Yes , Okay , All right . So now let's move forward . And then also there's Andrew Tate . He's another one .

So now he's being charged in Romania with rape , human trafficking and forming an organized crime group to sexually exploit women , And his brother , Tristan , is also facing charges . Now , why I mentioned those is because , yes , so James Charles , you're absolutely right was doing the same thing .

Now , the reason why I mentioned this is because all of these things factor into this PR crisis , because Ballinger now is being accused of similar things that other people have already done . There's already SEO , that you just need to search online and you can see these stories .

If there's already history , there's already a digital footprint , if you will , of how people associate this past behavior . A difference Ballinger is a woman . Ballinger is a mother of three , even though she wasn't when this first started , But it makes it a little bit different , But she's being cast in the same light and that matters editorially , Okay .

So now I also want you to think about . Here's another aspect that I bring into it Whenever there's a PR crisis of the social realm against a creator , whether it's YouTube or even on TikTok , people are brought down on TikTok all the time . It happens to me , it happens to lots of other people .

I was watching one person dealing with it coming out of the Titanic sub . Someone who credentialed gave an opinion And that opinion got to another opinion . Another opinion , another opinion got to another creator accusations of doxing , accusations of racism , and it just goes out .

So this creator versus creator in a TikTok world where you have stitches and duets and all that Again , that environment makes it so combustible for these things to happen , Okay . So now , when you mix all of this together , it brings us into where Colleen is All right . So we have the rise , of course , of cancel culture .

That's been going on for years think back to me too But our cancel culture is changing a little bit right now . People like to really bring down . If there's an injustice , people want to bring them down . There's also , I believe , a mix of shot and Freud , and there as well , There are people who derive pleasure from other people's misfortunes . They just do .

That could also be called Reddit , all the snark pages . People actually feel better sometimes when they can see someone else coming down and being brought down , And it could be something very minor or something . Maybe they just don't like them , But the idea of the snark and the shot and Freud it helps as well .

Okay , Now and then add into that mix , which is a very 2022 to now , is the press As I talked about it before . We have digital press and we have legacy press , And right in the middle is that line . The media now loves to cover stories of just viral implosions . They love any type of friction . They love viral stories .

They love anything where someone is doing something crazy that's caught on video and everybody's behind it . And internet and culture reporters report not on the facts of what's happening , They're reporting on the viral of what's happening . That's how we really get a lot of these stories And in some cases we have . We have generative AI just writing the stories .

We even have people behind the stories . They just go on TikTok and they they download a video and then they put it up in words and then they slap it on an article . And the reason why I know it is because I get them . I get Google alerts for them all the time with my name and I can see it .

It's like , oh my gosh , that's just someone who put a TikTok into into a chat , GPT , and then just put it out on a website . All of this fuels where we are right now . Okay , Now , let's now bring it back to Ballinger and McIntyre . So the first time McIntyre met Ballinger was in 2014 , on a tour stop in Dublin .

I want to read directly from the Rolling Stone article , because we have clues into what's happening here And I think anyone else can kind of figure out like , moving forward , if some , if you're hearing , you happen to be in PR , you follow PR , you work in it , or comms , or leadership , whatever it is , or you're a student and you're just interested in it .

These are the things that how , what my brain looks for . Okay . So McIntyre said it was very professional . When they first met , I was a fan and she was a celebrity . That's the moment the lines of the parasocial relationship blurred and it morphed into something else . But after they met again in person in 2016 , McIntyre says their friendship became real .

So now McIntyre , who's young , is having a real relationship with an internet celebrity or we could . I don't even have to call her internet She's a celebrity . Okay .

So now the two went from talking through tweets to direct messaging where , according to screenshots reviewed by Rolling Stone , they would discuss the comedian's content as well as more serious matters like her online haters and impending divorce from then husband Joshua David Evans . Time was 14 at the time . Ballinger was 29 .

That is one of those big red X siren moments where Ballinger was at a point in her career what she was doing , that the line was crossed . Clearly , a mistake was made . We have the ukulele response right now . That line alone is one reason why the ukulele did not make sense . Why was a bad response That ? Okay .

So now this is a really , really , really important line . I was looking at this golden . I was looking at this sorry quote . I was looking at it like this golden opportunity of trust . I'm coming back to that word .

Mcintyre says , And I in the moment , really didn't care if it was morally right or wrong , because I was just grateful that she was talking to me and not anyone else . It made me feel like I know something that other people don't . They know Miranda Sings , but I know Colleen A person .

When the supporting protagonist creates , or a supporting protagonist , the reason why they typically start the crisis And I'm not set the full blown crisis , but it's when it starts is when the word that McIntyre used , trust . My entire job is built around trust . My job , When I work with clients they've lost it . My job is to help them regain it .

That's when Ballinger lost it . The fact that McIntyre used the word trust that is key . That's how you know , that's the markings of this character is going to come back and is going to be a big part of this crisis .

So , and if the moment and I say this on my podcast all the time and even on TikTok the moment trust waivers , is the moment you're on the precipice of a PR crisis , That is when the crisis started . Is when McIntyre said that trust is a cornerstone of a brand's reputation and when it crumbles , a PR crisis looms on the horizon . So that's the marker .

That's it . Like me , if you're watching a PR crisis , watch the moment that the trust is lost with an important stakeholder . And if that stakeholder happens to be social media or someone on social media whoop , watch out , Cause when the trust wavers , so does your reputation . Okay , now here's the next stage of it .

A crisis , a peer crisis , is always about the victim . Now , I had mentioned that , about what a victim is . It's someone who felt an injustice , someone who lost trust , someone who felt wrong . Look at any . Honestly , Louis CK , making a ukulele response would probably have been better . He didn't involve kids .

Louis CK , Jessica , like that's a great person to bring in because , right , he was canceled in the me too phase , right , And he sat it out and his behavior was gross , you know , with other women and there it's absolutely sexually inappropriate .

And the reason why it took so long for it to come out is he was doing it to women that he knew and fellow comedians and they weren't gonna come out and bring him down . But similar , I mean , we could put this right back to Ballinger , right ?

No one is there to tell Louis CK Louis , yeah , this isn't good , This isn't gonna work for you , This is gonna turn out bad . It's very similar . It's very , very similar . But Louis CK did it to someone who brought it out . There was some victim in there who wanted to see some justice done . Every single TikTok put down that .

You see where everybody gangs up with that social media vigilance or everybody dumps on this one person .

Usually there's people or someone who's triggered at the other end , And that trigger could be something that the original creator has nothing to do with , And it could be ableism , it could be weight , it could be racism , it could be abuse , It could be emotional abuse , physical abuse , financial abuse .

There's just so many triggers that people have , You just don't know . But that's the making of a victim , And when there's a victim , there's usually a PR crisis . Okay , so now , when you think of internal victims in my world , it could be like your employees , people who work for you , and like , even in Ballinger's team , people on her team , former employees .

Those could be internal ones , And the external ones are the fans . Adam McIntyre was internal . He was on the inside . He wasn't hired by her , but he was helping her in her job . So the question of Colleen even having a team , you know what this brings up . A good point about people having teams .

I remember when I would dive deep into Reddit threads in different rooms , like Alaria Baldwin and Rachel Hollis , they always ask where's the PR team ? Or their PR team must be going crazy , the PR team ? I don't think there's a PR team , but we're gonna come back to that .

Okay now , speaking of victims , So Johnny Sylvester was someone who worked on Torrethro , So he was on the inside . Something happened in that relationship . Maybe someone in the chat could tell me what happened there , But there was some potential falling out as well . Now , Colleen Ballinger now . So let's move up to . You know , we're in the summer of 2023 .

She is still Torrethro . She's still out there . She is Torrethro right now . She has tickets to sell , tickets have been sold And really there can't be anything worse than performing during a public relations crisis . I cannot imagine how stressful that would be dealing with that . So Johnny came out .

So in one of the videos , the live streams , or I saw a video of a live stream and someone was filming one people booing at a concert that she had last week , I believe booing at her , but also still some of the behaviors that she used to do with people in the audience . But now she was doing it with her husband , doing it with her husband on stage .

Oh my gosh , Kevin Spacey , Let me , oh , let me be Frank video . My Aliza , oh God , you have to explain what that is . Did Kevin Spacey come out with a video where he explained what happened ? Oh my gosh , I have to Google that . Yeah , so Johnny was a fan at first , then a friend , and then she hired him .

So boundaries Ballinger did not have them And a lot of people online it's not like they have big teams and big staff .

So I think it's very reasonable to assume that she was just doing this on her own , doing it with her then husband , doing it with her friends , maybe hiring a virtual assistant here , maybe an assistant here , a Johnny Sylvester here , and you keep growing and growing and growing and growing , But again you don't have those guardrails .

She abandoned him when he was a little late to a restaurant they were supposed to meet up at . She ordered food for him and said he ordered . Is that true ? Oh my , was that the end of Johnny Sylvester ? Was it because he was late to a restaurant . Okay , well , she dumped him and that makes him a victim .

So now Johnny gets into the mix , And these are again all of the factors that lead into a public relations crisis . This was a tweet . I'm actually very bothered by Eric . That's her current husband , laughing like a giddy school girl after Colleen made that tasteless joke referring to this situation last night . So this is currently on tour .

It makes me believe that they're making jokes like that behind the scenes as well . No remorse or any regard for other people gross . That tweet is somewhat telling and also has some of these markings in here . So Johnny is giving in a pin . So Johnny's inside , he's an inside victim . So he's been victimized .

He maybe was let go , As you said , if that story is true . she was late to a meal and he was let go . He did not like the behavior on stage , but also the fact that he says it makes me believe they're making jokes like that behind the scenes as well . He doesn't know that . He doesn't know it for a fact . He doesn't know that .

He's filling in the blanks here , And then that's another factor in a PR crisis . We definitely have facts in this story , but there are a lot of facts that are being filled in .

A lot of the cracks are being filled in by fans , by former fans , just by speculation , And a lot of speculation tends to run rampant on social media And it fills in these cracks of a crisis that make it very difficult . I think , oh sorry , Okay , no sorry . Oh , Adam , got you Okay . Adam is the one with the restaurant . Got you Okay , correction .

But one of the things with Ballinger here which is triggering her ukulele response is important is in that tweet Is Johnny Sylvester made an assumption ? And if she goes online and she sees all these people talking about her making assumptions , It also clouds your judgment to think no one really knows the true story .

Everybody's lying , Nothing is true , Nothing makes sense . And then when you have this insular environment where it's your team of your husband and buddy and siblings , your world is so small and you're not getting decent counsel , You're not getting good counsel . So that's another reason why I feel she doesn't have a team . Now , she has an agent . She has to .

I would assume she has to have an agent . I mean , she's doing Netflix deals . She has to have an agent . Do I think she has a PR person ? No , not at all . Not at all . I do not think there's any adult professional presence in the room that's guiding her . So the shows that she's on right now is there .

The shows are there for a reason she needs to make money . She sold tickets . Could be that the money's already spent , Could be I don't know . I'm not saying this is truth , We don't know . Pure speculation She needs . So she has a lot of money . There's no doubt about it .

But when you face , when you're faced with a crisis like this , you need to bank as much as you possibly can . Because now she's playing roulette And this is just my opinion from watching it from the outside and from doing my research . She knows what people are saying , She knows what's true she does and she knows what's not true .

The difference between the public opinion and her opinion is how it's weighted morally . She might not think it's that big of a deal , but other people on the outside think this is wholly inappropriate . What you're doing right now . You cannot do this . This is wrong .

So I think she's surrounded by a lot of yes people , A lot of people who are telling her you're fine , you're fine . Now , another mark that happens in these types of PR crises , when people don't respond , and why they don't respond . And here is where my recorded podcast went .

I did this whole section on why I didn't think she was responding at all , Because before the ukulele video we had nothing . We just had her on the road . She was toying . That was it . Oh , is that true ? It's our , discounted to $3 . Oh , wow , OK . Ok . So money's on the line And there is a consequence . With every single PR crisis .

I mean it's no different . I mean , look at Bud Light . I mean that's a PR crisis of money . They lost money . They lost a ton of money , And that was my TikTok about yesterday was doing the story on that . Ok , All right . So now let's go back to Colleen . Now , what do victims usually want ? So think about these victims .

Oh , Mitchell , I don't think she's ever needed a PR team . But yeah , that's true . People always assume that people have PR teams . No , A PR person is a luxury And PR strategy is different from a publicist . I'm not a publicist . I've worked as one , but I am not one . I have a client And we had to bring on a publicist to get press .

That's an entirely different skill set . I can do it , but I'm not great at it And I don't want to do it . I'm strategic . I would bet everything . She does not have a strategic person counseling her at all . There could be a family friend who's a lawyer or something like that .

She may have a lawyer involved just because of money and what's happening , But in terms of guidance , strategic guidance , no , Oh , the tour is canceled . Ok , I need confirmation on that . Okay , I need confirmation on that . Okay , So she's going to have , because she's an entertainment , she's going to have an agent , so she's going to have representation .

Definitely , She's probably a lawyer in the mix because you're negotiating deals . So all of that is there . But what we're getting at is we do not have someone , I believe , based on the ukulele response , who she trusts as a person who could give her strategic outside counsel , and that she takes it and takes that advice . I'm just saying , am I expertise ?

No , She doesn't have that , because no one and I mean no one no one would tell a person who is accused of grooming minors inappropriately to reply with not just a song , but with the ukulele . Now , victims in a PR crisis they want validation , They want vindication , They want visibility . Sometimes , Many times , they just want an apology .

Sometimes they want an admission of guilt . They're hurt . They want to see something happen . Look at Adam McIntyre . That is your victim . That is one of many right , Or at least the four that were quoted in this Rolling Stones story . So when you look at any type of crisis , look for the victim and look at what's happening .

And I think what Ballinger is looking at right now is she is not thinking that she did anything wrong based on the ukulele response . Okay , one last thing about the response what she should have done , and then we'll talk about . Well , let's talk about the ukulele response And then we'll talk about what I think she should have done .

Okay , now the ukulele response . I know some people online were saying that she sang the song as a way to not have it shared because it's copyright . I don't know . I had tagged a lawyer on my post yesterday , Heather , on that . There's a merit to that . I don't know .

I'm not a lawyer , I'm not an intellectual property lawyer at all , But there's something to that . I also think that there's a strategy in there , too , why she did it . So let's just get into why I think she did the ukulele . It could be because of the copyright . There's that .

But also the story is not going to like the news media cannot grab a clip of her apology if that's a copyright issue . So what you're doing is you're limiting the exposure of your response . So this is very similar to when people put a response on Instagram stories .

So I've done a couple of posts like that where at first I thought she was singing to get around PR teams country for now . So she probably does have one to make me like okay , Oh , John Sanders says you can get tickets in Omaha for $35 to $90 . Interesting , Yeah , But the status of her shows ? yeah , Mitchell , the tickets are like $35 . Okay .

So the show is the show , the show must go on and the show still goes on . Okay , We see . Anyway , so the ukulele response it could be a song , because of copyright issues , I don't know . We need an intellectual lawyer to tell us that property . I also believe that when you do a 10 minute video , you have to take it in 10 minutes .

So if the press is going to cover it , they can include a link to the video , because it's a public video and right now it is at 2.5 million views . All right , But it's 10 minutes . I think it's 10 minutes for reason .

I think that was strategic because if it was quick in and out , it would have been consumed by even more people , But how many people have listened all the way to the end ? Okay , So there's this piece of do you go viral with your response ?

So typically , when someone gets called out , for instance , like let's go back to Adam Levine , when he was caught cheating with Summer Stro , Summer Stro came out on Instagram and said that the two of them you know that he was cheating on his wife When he came out with his response , it was an Instagram . No , was he an Instagram story ? Oh gosh , I forget .

I think he was . I think he was . I think he was an Instagram story . I know Tom Brady and Giselle . They just wanted to go away because you can't grab it And it also , like , the font is always blurry . You know how you can't see it because you can't effectively use it in media because when you embed it .

So the goal of when people are in a PR crisis , what they want to do , is they want to make the response , not have a digital footprint . Now , YouTube video definitely has a . It has a full footprint , but if it's going to be reported , it has to be reported in its entirety of 10 minutes . So , Miranda Ballinger .

What she does is she sings her entire response to tell her whole side of the story , because she wants people like , if you're going to report on this and push this out there like the press , you got to go all in because you can't just do 30 seconds of it .

People on social media I know you only look for 30 seconds , but the press so that's a strategy too when it comes to a PR crisis is like how is the media going to pick it up and report it ? So ukulele video that's interesting . Now it can be embedded in everything . It can also be used in clips . So you're going to see it in .

You could see it in a story , in an entertainment story . They're going to have clips . How many people now can sing the toxic ? I mean , it's in our brains , right , It's a catchy tune . I'm not going to lie . I mean that's what I found myself even on my TikTok . I was not even going . All right , all right , all right , Okay , All right .

So now we have that video , The other piece of it . By singing it , she was in her comfort place because she's a performer , Some might say . Like entertainers , comedians , they feel safe when they are in their space of excellence . So a comedian , it might be cracking jokes . A singer , it's going to be singing .

I think the reason why she did that is there was safety in doing that . She had control doing that . Now we've seen her other apology video where she I think it was in 2020 , that video came out in May , like May 15 , 2020 , where she apologized for ableism , making fun of Hispanic women , making fun of their weight .

Also , people had questioned her when she had to get the dog down who bit her . She was apologizing for that And she I admit , I admit . I admit I did all those things because there was safety there , because she didn't feel like she was that wrong . That was an apology video where she was really explaining things , The whole bit about the Adam McIntyre .

She was showing the information , like the receipts from the mother . She felt safe . That's why she was speaking it , why she was sitting on a couch and she was leaning forward and she was looking at you . She felt safe . Ballinger does not feel safe right now with these allegations . She doesn't . That's another reason why I think she was singing .

The ukulele is a prop , yes , but it's also a way to distance herself . When I watch , when I look at PR responses . When I watch videos , whatever it is , I'm always looking for distancing . There's usually distancing and how we see that . There's distancing in language , when people don't wanna admit fault . And I think that the ukulele is a distancing distraction .

It's a performance . She's lulling people into why they liked her in the first place because she's a performer . She's a talented performer . She is . She's a talented performer . There's no doubt about it . She's not just a rando YouTube person . And what famous . She's a performer . So that's why .

So do you think a response video is a great idea to say whatever's left of your career ? I'm getting there , I'm sorry , I'm going on , Oh , oh , I coming up to my hour . So , and here's the reason why it's wrong , Why the ukulele didn't work It made for a great diddy . I'm not gonna lie , it was a great diddy .

She , her voice , the affect , the inflection , it was great . It was spot on If it wasn't a PR response to a crisis , and not just like a regular old crisis , but the accusations and the fact that they're not unfounded . Now there's a lot of unfounded . So this is where now , in fairness to Colleen , I said I didn't wanna be 100% dumping on her .

In fairness to her , I'm sure she's seen a lot of lies out there , a lot of speculation out there , Like when you're at the center of it and you just see that that's really hard And people get really frustrated and they reflex it , They wanna fight back . Every single client I have in a PR crisis they always wanna fight back .

When we're having one-on-one conversations I just tell them like , tell me , let it out , let it out , Let it all out . Okay , because they want to . Some people let it out in their public response And that's what she was doing . She was letting it out , But she did it in her safe space . The reason why the ukulele ?

I don't even need to tell anyone because you all know the answer . You all know the answer . The reason why the ukulele was such a bad choice and the song is because she was dismissing the severity of the allegations . One of the things that I will give her is being having the word grooming attached to her name . That's significant .

Now , by definition , it's not incorrect . By definition , it's not incorrect . But when people hear the word grooming , they think of sexual grooming , They think of sexual and appropriate relationship , And that is what's killing her right now . That is what's killing her reputation , Because the headlines , even like the HuffPost headlines she's a children's YouTube star .

Her fans say she groomed them as teens . That is not factually incorrect , It's not . But it leads people to think that she did something sexually And that's the third rail about it When in truth she did nothing illegal . She didn't where other YouTube stars have when they're being charged with it .

She did not do anything illegal , but she did do something appropriate And that's the reason why that response was so out of tune . It was not what she should have done 100% . It was out of touch . It didn't show any empathy whatsoever to the miners who she exploited . It showed that she did not have a true sense of the damage of what her behavior did .

There was no introspection there to think well , yes , I crossed the line . Now she did talk about it and she started to explain it . But then when she said and this is what I grabbed in the TikTok , but you don't care , like all those little zings and dings in there . So Michelle's saying this was not a video for the average consumer .

This was a message to all the channels making their drama videos , Many of whom look like they have never uploaded video before they're doing this Absolutely . She was providing context , or she was providing context via content , So she could tell her entire story . I believe she did get a team , because now she knows everything is on the line .

She is doing her live tour right now to make as much money as she possibly can , because she knows it may be over . So that's why this tour continues . That's why she's made a little bit of the adjustments . She still wants younger people in there .

She wants moms in there , moms who would be none the wiser to what's going on with her , and younger people who wouldn't be wise to it . She doesn't want this elder , millennial , millennial crowd anymore . No , no , no , no , no . Two wise , two wise . She wants to see if she still has it to be able to do that . Now .

The question is can she come back from this ? I think it has to be the end of Miranda . It has to . I mean , with the lipstick and the behavior and the off-putting . That's the character that was accused . It's very similar to Pee Wee's Playhouse And what's so interesting is her character is often compared .

She's like a Pee Wee's Playhouse for the millennial generation . Yet do we all know what happened to Paul Rubens ? He was canceled right . Pee Wee gone . So Miranda sings . That character needs to go . I also think she needs to . She needs to sit back , She needs to take a break . She needs to check out . Her husband had an acting job and it was a TV show .

Oh , I did not know that . Oh , that's interesting , I didn't know that . But she needs to take a break and take some time away . And could she come back ? Yeah , she can come back . She can come back and do an interview with someone , Like she could sit down and do an interview to explain everything . She could book a morning show .

She could book CBS Morning . She could book 60 Minutes . She could book something after a bit . Definitely they'll get the ratings , They'll get the young people . But I think she'll come back as a performer , because she is a talented performer , There is no doubt about it .

But she is a performer who lost her moral compass , who lost her judgment , who surrounded herself with sycophants and people who were not guiding her or just being like a moral check for her . All of them together were just a toxic mix of people that were probably just looking and excited about the money , the fame and just the hanging on that comes with it .

All right , so I'm just gonna look at a couple of questions here . I'm up at the hour . So Holly says I don't think she'll retire Miranda , though she should . Miranda is her main moneymaker . I don't disagree with you , Holly , on that . I do not disagree with you on that .

I just don't know how she can , unless Miranda changes something and sits out for a while so Miranda can appeal to younger people , Because Miranda was a hit and became huge at a time when YouTube was peaking , when creators were peaking . We're in a different environment now , So we don't know if it's gonna change , but you could absolutely be right .

What was wrong with Pee Wee ? I thought the actor got pinched , whacking , Yeah , okay , but when Pee Wee's Playhouse happened , that was a while ago , when things that's when we still looked when homosexuals were not allowed out of the closet Okay , that was a much different day . Pee Wee did what Pee Wee did . Well , I don't know . I don't know .

Actually , I don't even know . Put Pee Wee in 2023 ? I'm not quite sure . But yes , there was a moral code that a child and that's interesting about Paul Rubens . Paul Rubens was like a morning show character , but we all knew he was for adults And Paul Rubens said something very adult that Pee Wee Herman and he's this character .

That's for some of our young people here . It didn't , it didn't jive and it didn't work And that was the end . Okay , all right , I think her fans should also . Catherine said stopping parasocial with her fans should not be friends . It's a really , really good point . Hard to control that , but that's a good point . Do you think Adam will get his apology ?

Great question . No , not when egos are involved . No , oh oh , I'm sorry , Adam got his apology . He was with the ukulele . It was her saying to Adam you started this . Let's see . Yes , Maria , I am on YouTube . This is my first live stream that I've ever done for my podcast . Let's see some other questions , but thank you for being here .

Can we trade Colleen for ? oh , Jenna Marbles ? that's a whole thing . Paul Rubens did not deserve the cancellation , Right , of course , for what happened , but at that time , if you think back to when that happened was that the 90s when that happened ? I can't remember . She's got to be terrified of child protective services , Of those .

If these aren't founded , I would hope . Yeah , I don't know . Like , again , she hasn't done anything illegal . There's no proof that she crossed that sexual boundary . These are just grooming in terms of grooming fans via parasocial relationships . That's what makes this different . This is what makes it different .

So where do you think small creators , who use group chats like Discord to build the audience , should pull back the social access ? Great question , Abby . I love that statement . I think what it is is you need to have the interaction , Like look at all of you , I'm only doing this because you guys are here . All of you are allowing me to do this .

All of you are allowing me to run a business because you're all here . I would never want you all to go away , But it's how we view these relationships . I view people who follow me . I don't want to view them as fans . I view them as people who are helping me in my job and are giving me feedback .

Unless you come at me , then I don't like you , Then you make me sad . No , I'm kidding sort of , But if you have that boundary where you don't cross it and you keep it like that , then I think it's fine , because we have to do that in the environment that we're in . Moody Morgan , Molly , her behavior should not be talked about .

Past tense She has been exposed grooming . Okay , fair , fair , fair , fair , absolutely . But the choice of the past tense is because that's when all the accusations are . But now in the show she's adjusted her behavior . There could be current ones still , I'm not aware of that , but this whole PR crisis is stemming from what happened in the past .

But fair enough , due to Paul's arrest for indecent exposure , his show was ended . Yeah , so he was arrested , So there was criminal , And that's usually what happens when there are criminal charges . That's always the flag contractually , where people can get fired .

The way she manipulated Elizabeth with the way she manipulated her fans to make her do things for her , that is unpaid labor , illegal in America . Yeah , a lot of people do it . She asked Adam for nude pics as a child . Did she do that ? She sent him under well , So , the underwear in the mail . I saw that because I saw that from her apology video .

Can that possibly be true about Adam ? Because , if it's true , that's against the law . Okay , Michelle , cancel . Culture is out of control . She needs to take accountability to those individuals . They seem to have those receipts , but the rest of the trainees ? So , Michelle , I'm going to .

Yeah , Michelle , you have a point there because you're speaking from another viewpoint . You're not counter to it . It's true , I agree with you Cancel culture is crazy town .

And even on TikTok , how very , very quickly a creator who's just a private creator all of a sudden gets absolutely eviscerated because a pile of people will stitch and do wet and take things out of context . And then we're going to cancel people .

And this mobilization of cancel that's what I if anyone wants to know what I do for a living , that's why I get hired . Someone is in the process of being canceled . There's a group that is mobilized against them . And you're right . So many times someone has an agenda on the other end of it And I look at that person .

I'm like what is their agenda And how do we get around it ? How do we get around it ? But sometimes these cancel moments are justified . Many times they're not , but sometimes they are . But a very fair point , Michelle . Fair indeed . If a man or I lost his scent underwear I lost that , Heather .

If a man sent underwear to an underage fan via mail , he would be facing harsher consequences . You're right , And what she was saying is that it was merch that was sent to her . But you're right , it's gray . These are all the points that make it gray , Catherine . Yes , but we don't need to have access to your personal life .

We don't want to be friends with you No offense , No offense taken But we just want to hear what people have to say . Yeah , that is the case for many , many people , But for many it's not . It's not . Are there any YouTube creators that are popular with kids who aren't creepy ? Yes , what is her name ? Is it Ms Rachel ? Is that who was my babysitter ?

She just had my babysitter . My old babysitter had a baby and she told me all about Ms Rachel , And Ms Rachel was getting canceled by conservatives . Yeah , Heather , she crossed the line by having sexual conversations . Yes , I totally agree with that , And that's why she should not have done the ukulele .

Angela , do you feel like the accusations of Kaleem being a groomer and predator might debase what a groomer and predator actually is ? Angela , yes , And if there's any defense of Colleen that I will say this of Colleen Ballinger , it's that . Is that part of her peer crisis is getting that negative . I don't wanna call it glow , cause it's not a glow .

Let's call it the taint of the word groom It's . There's such negative connotations with that . So I do think there's like this confirmation bias that they assume if anyone's a groomer , they have to be a sexual little groomer . So that's a big part of it .

So also , the fact that she's called a groomer is what allowed her to kind of eke out of this , because she could come back and say , excuse me , you're calling me a sexual groomer . It gives her a little bit of an out , Isn't that ? that's the twist to all this . That's what's giving her a leg to stand on .

I read Adam say that he would go on record saying he was groomed . This is turning into a legal case fast . Well , like , technically , he was groomed . By definition he was groomed . But what type of grooming was it ? But that's true . So we'll see . Like every crisis right , There's always something else out there . She's a groomer and a predator by definition .

Exactly , you're 100% correct on that , Dan DeLine official , By definition she is . Yes , Miss Rachel makes videos for kids that are like learning songs . I know , oh my gosh , I went down the Miss Rachel . Well , What a talent .

But I kept looking at her thinking you and your composer husband put this together in your living room and you're making , oh my gosh , Like my Miss Rachel moment . But Miss Rachel , I mean , that is a good person who , you can tell , wants to help , like babies and mothers who are exhausted . I forgot about Miss . Oh , now everybody's shouting out for Miss Rachel .

I know in them she took a break because everybody came at her . Okay , so I'm just gonna do . I'm gonna break here in a couple of minutes , but I just wanna get to some of the . I feel like groomers becoming the new narcissist . Yeah , So you're saying that that people throw the word around a lot ? yeah , fair , fair . People throw around narcissists .

But people who've dealt with narcissists in real life , they know what it is . But , yeah , similar the word groomer , I'm with you on that , I am with you . Let me go back a piece . I don't wanna . John Colleen Bauer , you're singing . A ukulele response to my grooming allegations was not on my 2023 bingo card . No kidding , All right , everyone .

I know it's work for a lot of people . It's lunchtime is coming to an end for a lot of people on the East Coast . I know for my central viewers , you're probably just getting into your lunch . I want to thank everyone for hopping in on my first live . I really appreciate it . This was not planned by any means .

It was here simply because Ballinger came out with a ukulele response after I had an entire podcast about why she didn't wanna do the response And the answer was , I think , she wanted to coast through it as long as she could till she got to the point that she could no longer do it . It was as simple as that . She could not do it any longer .

All right , everyone , I want to thank you for all your time . I'm going to do this again . I really appreciate it . Also , before I go , I'm going to post this . I'm gonna edit it a bit , I'm gonna post it to the podcast on Tuesday , the Indestructible PR podcast with Mallinger 1st , and it drops every Tuesday on all of your podcast players .

Also , I do have a community . It's on the five platform . It's a new platform that came out in June . It's PR Confidential . It's like the PR Insiders guide . I put information in there And the reason why I like it . I moved from Patreon over to this platform one because it has a free tier . I love the fact that it's just free .

Patreon was paid and that stressed me out that I had to provide paid content . That was different from all my other content . But also the feature that I love is people can ask questions . So if you want to ask any questions , go over to that site . Sign in .

It's free and you can ask questions and then I'll answer them And other people in the community can chime in as well , And there are other layers to it as well . There are paid , but if you're someone who works in PR wants any PR advice or any of that , I'm more accessible in that area . But by no means you do not need to do that .

I have a training coming out this summer on how to survive a social media crisis like this one And I'll be offering it to there . So it's just getting discounts on trainings that I have . But I would love to have you just in the free community and have people chatting So you can head over there . You can answer questions there .

Of course , you can join me on TikTok , Instagram and , yes , James , thanking Dandelion official for all the help .

Dandelion official , I know you do not officially want to be my producer or the second banana here , but thank you so much for chiming in with all of your facts on the history there And also for everyone else who helped people in the chat by answering the questions that I didn't incredibly helpful . Thank you so much for joining me , Sarah F .

I see you there . Thank you for sticking this one out . I really appreciate it . I will definitely be back everyone . So also head on over to five . I try to get to all my responses in TikTok but it is so difficult to do , but I answer everything in this five platform .

So it's fiveme backslash , Molly McPherson , And when you log in you'll see ask me a question and go on in there and ask a question , And right now I'm answering all of them . So if you want to join it , I'd love to have you there . All right , everyone . Thank you so much . I really appreciate it . I enjoyed chatting with all of you .

Let's definitely do this again . Bye for now .