Enhancing Health and Longevity through the science of Hormesis with Professor Grant Schofield

Prof Grant, Welcome back to the podcast. I think this is four or five.

My favorite podcast with my favorite podcast in good Night.

So yeah, thanks having me better.

Yeah, we are going to talk all things hormesis right now, just for the listeners.

And I'm very excited about this.

I emailed you a few months back and said, I've just been thinking about life in general, and I'm kind of at the fears of my life that i.

Want to be doing cool shit with people.

That I really like and admire. And I said to you, how about we create a lab called the hormesas Lab, because we're both big on this and you already run a lab, and you said, yes, so we are.

This is the I guess the official.

Announcement of the launch of the Hormesis Lab or We're going to be doing a whole heap of research on hormesis and the benefits for human health. But just for our listeners, can you give us the kind of broad overview of what hormesis is.

Yeah, well, first of all, it's an exciting announcement, Paul, you know, really driven by your energy, so thank you for doing that. I guess homesos, you know, suffering some biological stress and addiction to that is interesting, but I think there's a bigger picture of that, And so homesis makes you a more robust.

Version of yourself. Whether it's.

Light, or it's exercise, or it's some of the slightly toxic photochemicals polyphyin ours or.

Whatever, there's a whole batch of them.

We'll talk about us today. Why do you want to be robust in the first place. And the reason you want to be robust is that living a good life means that you're going to suffer insults, stress, and really biologically speaking, you want to return yourself back to your

The body's not.

Going to waste resources on things news, so then you can't do anything other than stay in bed. So if you want to actually get out and about in the real world, you're going to have to constantly suffer these insults and be robust enough to do them. And of course we were finally tuned to do that evolutionary, but we haven't any capability to do that once you start

So that's really hell I think about it.

Yeah, I actually thought it was as we were talking about that. I think we could have a quote for the Hermesis Lab.

There's two stoic quotes that the obvious one, right.

Is is that what does not kill us makes us stronger. Right, that's the obvious one for their Mesas lab. But I think there's a couple of quotes that sprung to my epicthetis is we must all undergo a hard winter training and not enter into lightly that for which we have not prepared, right.

And he was talking about life.

So that, yeah, that's closer to the en.

Of it, I think absolutely.

And then a little subtext from Seneca unimpowered good fortune cannot withstand.

A single blow.

Yeah, but it's it's all about this idea that hormesis, so exposure to stressors or toxins that at high levels can kill you, but at low to moderate levels, particularly intermittently, into stress resistance. And and this is really the crux of all of these hormetic pathways are hermetic activators that we're going to talk about.

So and then stress resistance meaning that you can get better, better normal normal range of function in homeosizes more quickly.

Yeah, and actually moving beyond that.

So for me, hormetic stressors drive super compensation. You know, if we think of Selly's model, and and and I recently read a paper where they talked about and they used the Latin terms and it was, you know, getting back to normal eustasis. So they they called it when stress load you overload you.

They call that cacastasis.

So it's basically a breakdown of of your of your equilibrium. And then they talked about hyperstasis, which is an elevated state.

And that's really what we're all about with the hormesis lab.

Is not just about resilience and getting back to homeostasis, but how can you make yourself more robust, increase your stress resistance because of deliberate exposure to certain amount of stressors or toxins, which at high levels can kill you but we're after the stress resistance, right, yeah, And I.

Think you know, we see the physical aspects of that quite plainly. Everyone does. I think about you know, strength, you've got a relativity stuff. Yes, in endurance, you've got to.

Stemini, you've got to actually go out there and do network. But in the psychological realm, I think it's equally, if not more important, And it's a discussion that we're not having a society at all. And I mean the sort of clown like behavior of policymakers undergoing you know, keep people safe and removing them from stress to help their mental health is an extraordinary thing to be doing when it is actually likely to be the very problem in the first place.

Absolutely, and hey, there's going to let's do a podcast on that, actually, because I think there's an entire podcast on that.

But let's talk about that.

I mean, the really obvious one is exercise. But before we get into exercise, let's talk about late.

Well. I think light has just the more you go down that rabbit hole that you're more of, you're fascinated. And I think people are well aware that light penetrates to the body, and they might not know that depending on the wavelength of that lightness. Because it's visible and non visible, it penetrates some different and the most obvious, well known one is the blue wavelength light that's in that midday sun and whatnot, and so that has a

And that's a crucial part of normal ability to.

Get glucose homeore status because it's involved in gluco transport, but it's also in sort of immune system function and robustness. It's massive, and I think it's the most overlooked thing, and I think there's a few subtleties that it's just coming to my mind at the moment of around that. First of all, there is an optimal point beyond which you can actually deplete vitamin D. So once you start to get some reddening of the skin, that that effect

So are you saying that when you start to when you start, your skin starts to burn and then negatively impacts fitnamin D synthesis.

Yeah.

Yeah, And there's an interaction there with blood glucose as well, So the higher glucose is.

The more quickly you get that effect. And that's the thing. The second is that there's a much stronger age effect in your ability to do this from the sun than you think. And then she wants you to start to get our age four.

It's going to become more and more difficult when you're living in places like Melbourne and Auckland in the winter. And you know, then if you're thinking about supplementation, I actually think that is actually a reasonable thing to think about.

Don't either that or just booking some atheists nurser or something.

Uh uh.

So there's that's so there's a you know, there's a strong out effect. There's obviously skinned darkness effects. So if you're dark skinned, you're getting old and you're living in a philly, temperate climate, you're going to have to really max some effort.

And I think you know, the evidence is strong for that.

Yeah, and and just to to double click on that ground.

A lot of people don't realize and you know, particularly down this neck of the words, you know, we're we're very aware of the dangers of the sun with skin cancer because of the ozone and but the campaigns for that have been so successful that now in Australia New Zealand you have vitamin D insufficiency and vitamin D deficiency about the same that you see in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Right well, I.

Know it is ridiculous and that's actually there's a quarter of the people live in Queensland of vitamin D deficient, which astonishing.

Thing to me.

And most people don't realize grant that if you're vitamin D deficient it increases your risk of pretty much every cancer other than skin cancer.

I mean vitamin D. I did a podcast on it. It is actually we can think of it as.

A hormone as well as a vitamin because it actually regulated our a hormone regulator. It regulates about a whole heap of different hormones and biological processes. It is so essential, activates more than three hundred genes. It's just it's I think it's the most important nutrient.

Yeah, I agree. And also.

Forgetting that you're saying deficient, Well that's one thing, but you know beyond actually just having not deficient to move into more of an optimal ran Yes, you know that's actually beyond a lot of the population. So you're right, you don't want to get sundur. But my goodness made light for that effect is good. So what come we move on from bottom and DA because I think, yeah, there's to there's two way.

More interesting ones that are coming up, so they get more edgy.

And actually grant before we move on, Can I can I just say for for people, they recognize the optimal level of vitamin D are one hundred to one hundred and fifteen animals per liter. Now if you live in the States, you're going to have to convert that. But yeah, that that's what we're looking at for an optimal So let's.

Move on, and you're going to have to make you have to make a fair bit of effort to get there, especially that's ducks skin, temperate climate, getting old, and the other respect of courses is big too fat because it's a fat soluble vitamin, and the more fat store you have, the more it's sequested away and it's hard to get out again. So yeah, so yeah, high glucos insulin resistance, obesity, age, darker skin, temperate climate.

Disaster for.

Modern life. Yeah. So as as wavelinks changing into this.

This far red and then the infrared category, and this like penetrates much more deftly into the body. I mean, this is an astonishing thing to me as a non physicist. But lay a observer of the thing that you've got this thing light with zero charge and zero mass, and just get that around in your head. Then confers energy and can do so across billions of light years, and.

Then in the right waves, it.

Will penetrate into the body, into the cells, into the mitochondria, into the electron transport change, and now it's conferring energy in the mitochondria electron transport change by moving electrons, which is of course how.

We get energy from ADP to ATP.

I mean, that's an astonishing thing, Paul, I don't it Just I just find that an incredible thing.

Yes, for physiologists Grant who really understand that electron transport chain and and and the energy creation in the body for something like just just light to be able to affect that is frigging unbelievable, but has massive implications for human health because our mitochondria are so critical for health and and they're they're implicated in a whole host of physical diseases and neurogenerative diseases as well.

Right, And and I know you've been a real fan of this, and of course you can. You can get this a natural light, but then you can you can add to this. And I think you've got the You've got the infra red type sonar, I've got the steam songs do just and have the ficture. And then I think you've got a.

Your own array.

I've got Yeah, I've got a I've got a full light bed that does near infrared and infrared light. And it's just because I looked into the research, I'm like, holy shit, this is if you're going to spend money on your health, and this is a very good when you can buy a whole heap of different panels. I'll link to I'll link to the stuff that I have in the show notes. But but let's let's go back to you to talk about some of the mechanisms by which this this light, whether it's red light on the

Interesting to me is a study of Alzheimer's patients wearing these little infrared cats and seeing improvements in symptoms. And I think there's a similar study with parkinstances. They'sn't hold me exacutly.

There is, there is absolutely studies in Parkinson's.

Yeah, and you know, these are problems with monocultural function. And because you know, as you'd expect the brain being the most energytic demanding organ, if you've got problems and metabolism in mitochondrial function, I think that's the first place that's already going to show up. So I think that's as stylising. So I think that's the frontier. There's another there's one more mechanism which I think is even more edgy. If I haven't sent you the paper, and we'll certainly

The uh.

But but but but you know, it's it's an interesting thing, right because that too. It takes light and it starts to split water into hydrogen oxygen and four electrons it and it can store it, which is you know, the mitochondry don't store energy, they just produce energy, so it can store energy there and you get that sort of increase in melanin and the branding of the skin and it becomes protective and that sort of stuff and has antioxid data effectives.

There's all that going on.

So that's a that's there's no debate about melanin's photosynthetic properties, the fact that it's in the skin.

And so on and so forth.

What's interesting is that these guys show that actually melanin, it's not just in the skin, it's in most cells in the body. And they particularly concentrations on neurons, and they show that that melanin gratulates the nucleus in virtual in your oonal cell and does receive non visible light and converts it to energy. And this is I just find this an astonishing thing that there's this whole other pathway that's essentially photosynthetic as well.

We don't know exactly what it does, but it's implicated in.

Both Parkinson's and Outsider's and other origin to disease. Big problems in that pathway. And in fact, you can actually upregulate this pathway.

With nicotine. It's the only probable benefit of nicotine.

And you know, you've seen people in the biohacking world recently microdosing nicotine, and actually nicotine is actually a protective factor for Pakiston's.

And I'm not saying you get up in smoke. That's obviously a dumbass idea, but the the.

You know, if all this pans out to be like they say it is, or even half of it's true, then to me it means we fundamentally.

Don't understand a lot of biology.

And I've been reflecting so much on this because I think it was sixteen twenty eight that it was discovered that we have a circulated we have a heart and circulating bite.

It's not in compartments as first thought.

Now that would have seemed self evident to me, especially the amount of killing and stuff that was going on and animals and chemists look at it, but that was a first really only came to scientific attention in the sixteen twenty eight. It's so recent in human history really, And so now, okay, now I understanding this light and okay, vitamin D yeah, okay, of red okay, yep, okay, now melon and there's this other new cab of the rank.

Wow.

And you know, it's not well known, and I don't know exactly here it's going to paint out, but it's to me that's fascinate important.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I mean the whole light thing, which I've only really come across in the last couple of years, it's just freaking mind blowing isn't it so for people just to give a bit of a primer, a practical primer.

So red light is actually visible, So.

Any of the devices where you're talking about light therapy, the red stuff is visible six twenty to seven fifty and nanometers and that's really good for our skin, right, so anybody with acne or skin conditions. I mean, we've got one of those red light masks that the kids use. It's actually brilliant for skin.

And Is said, yes, So I have these little glasses.

That were created by a guy in London and they're called eye Power, and I will put a link into hit us.

Yeah I have them.

Oh yeah, I mean I've had them for like two years and you just stick them on once a week and you turn it on and it's just this really strong red light that actually has been shown to activate the mitochondria in your retinal sales and an equals one but it is how I still don't use glasses and

Yeah, but it's pretty expensive having your life around by exactly but lost of your soul basically. So there's another thing.

Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And look, I have a red light bed that I got from red dot led for about half the price that you'd buy the commercial ones, and as you and me know, Grant Grant, they all made in the same factories in China, right, So well, we.

Were scoring across the el the Express and there looking at those.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, so I will I will put a link to the bed that I've got. You can buy all sorts of different panels. But red light has been shown to help with injury recovery, like that chineering for red with injury recovery.

But for me, the really interesting thing is the stimulation of the mitochondria. Uh and and particularly when we get into brein health. I think that's a whole new frontier.

And then yea of physiology.

Yeah, pretty, it's just it's it's it's just so amazing that you just pull up this rock and all this ship comes scurrying out about stuff we we just didn't know about. And this Melanie thing, I'm gonna have to look into that paper because that's pretty freaking interesting. Now we could we could go in and talk about light ad nauseum, but I think that's probably the main thing unless you have anything else that you want to add around light.

Okay, so let's let's go and talk now about exercise.

So I'll take the lead on exercise and then you jump in wherever you want to. So look, the research shows that exercises the most important thing for your longevity.

It's as simple as that. And what most people don't.

Understand, Grant, is that the reason that exercise is good for you is that it's a stressor. So it's a classic hormetic stressor in that if you don't do any it's really bad for you. Then you do some, it's good for you. You do more, it's better, you do even more it's better. But then potentially ridiculous amounts of it. You stop to see the benefits, and I'll maybe get you to talk about some of that, some of those negative effects, particularly around endurance training and af at the

Right. But that paper in.

Jama which we have both seen, I will quickly give an overview of this and you can comment on a cramp. But it was produced a paper of one hundred and twenty two thousand people who were all in their fifties or sixties, underwent treadmill testing because they had ACG tests on their heart, but they also did treadmill testing, They did their VO two max.

They followed them for fifteen years.

A bunch of people died, and then at the end of it they went back and analyzed it and said, did their VO two max their cardio respiratory fitness fifteen years ago have an impact on how long they lived or their risk of dying? Right, So a little bit of a primer context for people around hazard ratios to understand this. So what they did in the same paper, which I think is really good, they compared people who were had certain conditions and didn't. So what this paper

If I had hypertension twenty one percent increased risk of death. Right here we get to the exercise.

What about the INSIGHT's rental disease?

Well, oh sorry, yeah, yeah, cool n stage renal disease.

My kidneys are packing up and my hazard ratio is two point seventy eight, So I'm one hundred and seventy eight percent more likely to.

Die than you in the next fifteen years.

Right, yeah, what's the fir your kids?

Yeah, exactly. But here's the thing.

If you were below average, and what they did in this low the lowest is the lowest twenty five percent, then below average twenty five to fifty, then above average fifty to seventy five, and then high the top twenty five percent, and then elite. I think they carved the top three out of the high It was two and a half or three.

Right, yeah.

So if I'm low the lowest twenty five percent and you're below average, my risk of death compared to yours ninety five percent increase my hazard ratios one point ninety five. This is like having diabetes, carnery art disease, and hypertension.

That's the risk of me being low versus you being high. But here's the ridiculous one.

If you're elite and I'm low, I have a four hundred and four percent increased risk of death compared to you. That blows end stage renal disease out of the water. In fact, you could have end stage adrenal disease, high pretension, corny already to these diabetes and smoker, and you wouldn't have to see the bloody risk factor of somebody low versus heart.

Yeah, like that's crazy.

Yeah, it's a massive effect, and you take notice of those as sort of that whole you know what counts as a big effect in these studies that gets it. Interestingly, though, there's a paper just come out this week around the same thing, and I think it I never quite understand these mend Ali and randomizations. Yes they use, but they make a good point around VO two for its own sake, because it's.

At we go I need that number of the two max.

But you know that they argue that actually it's probably the best and most accurate proxy of overall how active you are, you're sort of combined on well being. It's a sort of weighted moving average of that as well. So the more recent stuff counts, but it does have quite a long history. And actually, if you sort of low a look, there's a media to fixes on body composition, strength, strength, endurance, some of.

These other measures, those are actually the causal things.

Rather than vi to itself being the main causal factor in the science psych it's actually just a very repeatable, accurate measurement that proxies, you know, much of all of hormitic medicine in many ways. So that's I think that's I quite like thinking about it that way. The way that I don't understand their methods fully, by the way.

But that's that's another story.

I think that is a really good point. I mean your veal too.

It's not really something that you can cram for, you know, I was, I was a cromer at university. I'm sure you probably were right. So it's not something that you go, I've got my vel to you. Next week, I'm going to I'm going to train like a mad man for a week. It is the best proxy of your overall training history, I think, And that and there's.

A well been layer as well over above training history because your ability to recover from trying to get enough sleep well enough, it's sort of built in so then a bit as well. Yeah, so it's sort of like a master measurement in some ways.

You might think about it.

I mean just wondering about it this morning when I was coming up here thinking about that, you know, as VO two actually just a proxy as a sort of home more medic maths to measurement because you've got to to achieve there in the long term. You've got you can't be having a sleep stuff, You've got to be eating in a reasonable way.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's that's a very good point and it probably plays into the next one where you know, next to your veal two, one of the biggest predictors of longevity is muscle strength. So and we see this in different research. Some say it's muscle mass and others said strength. I think mass is a proxy for strength, But for me, the mechanism behind both strength and veal two is really about let's talk about the hormetic mechanisms. Because exercise is

But for me, I think the driver of a lot of this are miokines.

So some people who are familiar with this podcast will have heard of but these are molecules that are released from exercising muscle.

We've known for decades.

I mean when I went to my master's in exercise science, my accounts, we were told helped to break down glucose and fat and give the muscle energy and then help in the remodeling to make them bigger, faster, stronger. We now know that maokines get out into your circulation and they have a positive impact on every single organ and every organ system in the brain. But interestingly, from a harmetic perspective, they activate the NRAF two and AR pathways, right,

So yeah, it's so interesting that they do all the signaling like just all over the place and specifically for this type of thing and a different the SIME molecules does the same signaling but somewhere else differently.

For another you know, it's so yeah, the fact that grant you know, the first markin was discovered in the nineteen sixties.

We now have identified more than.

Six hundred MIO kinds, so molecules produced from muscles that have signaling effects throughout the body, and we only know what about sixty.

Of them do.

But we know they improve the health of your immune system, your gastro intestinal system, to help your pancreas create insulin, help your liver dispose your glutcose. They remold your bone and blood vessels throughout your life. And in the brain they trigger the release of BDNF that helps you create new brain sales and protects the brain sales you have against and veg VEGF that that helps.

To grow that vascular network.

So and a lot of it is mediated through these stress response pathways. So for me, classic hormesis right there, I've.

Been having these dreams. I don't know if you have them or just lying and being thinking about this. So I was imagining that I was like a nanosized vision of me that I could travel around the body because we're talking about these things. It's all very esotiric and we've got these mechanisms and it makes sense that it's level. But I'm just I mentioning, you know, you know the

Yes, exactly, And.

I'm just like, what would it be like to be inside the pancreas, I mean, randomly thinking about these things?

Well, that's what reason that is.

Actually that's quite interesting because this is how all this shit happens, right, It is happening in the biochemistry. It's happening at its cellular level. It's all the signaling stuff that's actually going on. But let's give people, let's give people some guidelines because I really want this to be pretty practical, and so recommendations are around training, right, so from a cardiovascular perspective.

This is kind of more your bag than my bag.

And talk to people a little bit about zone two maphatone and you know the benefits of zone two and then maybe some VO two max stuff, what like how do we train for those different things?

Yeah, so that's the.

I think it's basically the way I can see of that type of exercise. We're talking about this too, almost completely different physiological effects of that exercise. One This is the same too, which is I prefer done fasted or without adding extra glucose really.

And the thing about that is that it's activating, it's returning insulin to basic.

Levels, glucose to base levels, it's starting to now act and get all the mechanisms of utopogy. And this is essentially a catabolic process which is highly anti inflammatory and very good for you. So you know, the trick there is to keep the exercise very easy, and people find this hard to do because for most people that's going to be walking, some people make running or you know, it's just conversation or you feel it you're finishing the

Of what we call the aerobic threshold.

So it's you know, you've mentioned walking up the stairs carrying a bag of grocer's where you first start to catch any breath at all. It's not lap take thresholder and a threshold we really starting to puff, and it's just that first thing. You're just trying to stay under that. And I think you can do several hours of that in a day if you had to. Certainly you should be doing several hours in a week.

And this.

Even if it fears down into a zone one, which is even less than that. You know, okay, elite runners may not benefit from walking except for for recovery, but for most of us that's going to be good as well. So I think you know that as we know, and you're very good at doing guard and projects and these types of things where you're just out all day.

Cracking on with it and working.

I really enjoyed cycling as sort of a middle ledge man in life for a time. Coffee, So that's that's the thing.

And I think just for me, I really am a good little thing for people to know about what how much is too much? And you know, at the upper end of zone two you should be able to talk but not sing, right, So.

If you.

Are struggling to then hold a conversation, in our likelihood, you've gone out of zone two and into zone three.

I think that's pretty key.

Yeah, And that that heart rate varies both within people day to day and also just depending on your experience. Like I'm fifty five and that methodtime one four the eighty minuitas isn't correct for me at all. My aerobic threat was at about one hundred and forty bats per minute, and so I consider in the one thirties all day fine, and.

That sort of thing.

That other people are going to be in a different space than that. You know, things just are different from person to person, but you'll figure it out. It's you know, it's not too hard to work with that. I think the other end, though, that high intensity, which you've been more into than me, which is you know, it's not

It's brief, it's hard, and it's going.

To push up that sort of two mats type thing, but there's a whole different amount of signaling. And the thing about, of course, this is the real hormetic part of it, that this is highly stressful. The response is briefly inflamma tree and then with appropriate recovery you're improving.

Yeah, so it's such an interesting thing about exercise.

Yeah, at both ends of the scale it has benefits. And I think for people the way I say, if you're going to do VEO two max training, you know, the classic stuff is intervals of between three and eight minutes, and that that's probably dictated by your training history. But at the end and you're going hard, you're going like

You're in a slightly lower pierce, but you should be busted at the end of it, like like god, this is fucking horrible. And then you rest for.

About the equivalent amounts if you're doing a three minute interval three minutes hard as and it's any bit of equipment that you can be a rower across trainer or a bike running running outside, and then.

You rest for about three minutes. Now, if you're doing eight minute.

Intervals, I don't think you need eight minutes rest, right, you need three to five minutes rest.

But then you repeat those and you do three to five of those.

Now, Interestingly, some people don't respond tremendously well to that, but they do respond to the.

More classic Tobata shorter.

One thirty thirty on, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, so that and that's that is really horrible, right, I.

Do those sorts of things on my versa climber thirty on thirty off.

It is freaking evil, right, and you are you know, you do six to ten of those, but there's a you know, if you do five of them, that's a that's a ten minute workout, but it's hell, it's hell on earth. But that will really move the needle around your VO two max and all those hormonic stressors. I think the key that I've learned over the years, and a lot of it talking to you, is don't do all of your exercise like that, because I have traditionally done all of my I even do my strength training

Sort of cycle through those, like on each of those and then come back again or something.

Yeah, So what I will tend to do.

So we've got you've got six different movement patterns, and then I add I add a rehab one at the end, right, So I do seven, and I do thirty seconds of work.

So time under.

Tension I like to think about rather than reps and really emphasizing the eccentric portion. So I'll do thirty seconds of work, ten seconds of rest, which isn't rest, it's moved to the next station, thirty seconds of work. So I do seven of those, and then I do that four times, so I do a circuit.

So there's okay, I'm going to go.

So where I work here in my labor I've got an awesome gum I'm going to do. I like this time under the tension, but I'm going to do that.

Yeah, And so that that is about sixteen seventy in it workout. It's less than twenty minutes. But I'm getting twenty eight sets of resistance training in there. And I'm also activating my cardiovascar system. Because you're breathing out your arse, you know you're going pretty hard, particularly when you're doing the full body movements, the bends, the and the and the squats.

So I think that is a bit of a guide for people how much.

How much you're putting on, Like when you're doing the a weighted part of it, they have close to getting a failure.

I am pretty much at failure at the end of those thirty seconds, right, So I'm just sort of judging it a bit.

Like that, Yeah, that's right.

Now, I will then I will then mix this up where I will do specific strength stuff, right, So I'm on a bit of a strength fee. So you'll find that that that that's thirty seconds. You know, depending on the exercise, you're getting ten.

To fifteen reps.

That that's kind of in the hypertrophy fees. And as I said, you can lengthen the eccentric and you reduce the reps. Then if you want to train strength, it's different. Right, it's three to six rms.

Like you can do one and two. But I don't recommend that normal people do that.

That's more for athletes because the injury risk when you're doing a one red max is pretty high. So that you pick a way that you can do for maximum three to six that's going.

To do the best in terms of strength. And then you want more rest periods.

So I will then tend to because I don't like sitting around a lot, I will turn it out, yes, so I would superst even when I'm doing strength, so I might do chest back right and I'll do three RMS, so i might do wait to chin ups or or rose or something like that, and then i'll do a bench press or a standing push press, and I'll do three to six RM and I'll go chest back and then I'll have a little bit of recovery and then i'll go back.

You want about two minutes rest before you.

Go again, and to be very impatient with two minutes, right, So sometimes I'll do a try set, I'll add something else in and then i'll have by the time I get back to my chest, say about two minutes have elapsed.

Yeah.

So for people the superseit terms when you're doing you're doing one exercise, which doesn't really think the other exercise exactly the bridge space or something the other way, just carry on the other.

And for me that's all about efficiency, right, So if you've got unlimited time, then you can do the classic routical. I don't have unlimited times, so when I'm doing the strength stuff, I tend to do super sets or try sets, right, and then there's all sorts of extra stuff that you can add in that I think is beyond the scope of this.

When we're turning. This is just really the key thing. And then if you want to be training for power and I can't pronounce that word power pow e R.

People think I'm talking about golf when I say muscular power. The key thing that people don't understand is that's quite light and it's fast movement. So it's plyometrics right, it's jumping, but it's also when you're doing a weight, it's about thirty percent of your rep max. So it's only about thirty percent of the weight that you could left. So say you're going to standard standing cable press. It's actually quite light, but it's really explosive and you need a

I don't want to be driving the edge or content of your podcast, no, but I reckon now it's a good time to introduce something we weren't planning to talk about, which is around protein. Oh yes, well, I just think there's a couple of things here, and there's a couple

About this, the stuff that they do with the they feed the radio label phenol analine.

To the cows and then they know we haven't talked about this, No go ahead.

So these are these Dutch.

Guys, and so this is an expensive thing, like a million million euros for a cow, right, So you want to figure out how and what happens to ingested protein and you know, how does it end up in the muscle, what's the sort of rate of turnover, and you know, how does stress affected and all that sort of stuff. So you can't just so you've got to do something of radio label amino acids. You can't just seat them directly,

Bioposite people's muscles and.

Look at protein synthesis, which is pretty crazy for a start, right, and so the classic fair study is just getting a Uni student and putting a cast on one of their legs for a week, so they've got one muscle's completely isolated. The other it's the left leg as mobilize rightly, it

That that's really important for people to understand, grant, right, is that a lot of people think your muscle is just your muscle, and it is. Your muscle is not the same muscle as that was three months ago. It's a completely new muscle.

Well, and then anyway, so just to carry that on, they had somehow are studying there's a bunch of people with epilepsy who are getting some brain surger, and well, we could do the same feeding study. And then now because we've got access, we could do a little biopsy of brain to sure and look at and they're like, oh, yeah, well that looks like because it's such a meniabolical actor. But augum, the whole thing's already turning over every six weeks.

Right, that's an incredible thing for the brain, right, find that an interesting Yeah? Yeah, And then the same group's done that.

I think you probably heard this study just in the last couple of months, is that they actually started feeding people after exercise either twenty five grams of available protein or one hundred grams. And you know, the eIDAS are well, you know, really, twenty five grands is sort of the maxim you're going to get for protein synthesism.

More than that's not going to affect muscle proteins.

And actually one hundred gramds not only has a bigger effect, but keeps going for you know, twelve hours later, it's still got an effect twelve eyes.

Wow, that's really interesting.

So that's why you'll wrap on that stuff. Not my research, but so interesting, right, Yeah.

It is interesting, And you do bring up a really good point I must not even mention. It is that you need more protein than you think, and as particularly as you get older, we lose muscle protein synthesis. Now let's bring that back to muscle mass and strength. It is we lose muscle mass at the rear of three to eight percent per decade, and it accelerates, and it is not unusual for somebody to hit the ears of seventy five and they've lost up to half of all

So for me, that's really really key.

Yeah, and so interesting, isn't it. Yeah?

And this muscle protein synthesis. It decays as you eat, so they now wreckon that. These recommended guidelines which used to be you know it was the RDA was zero point eight grams of protein per kilogram.

Of body weight. Nowhere near enough.

It's double it, yeah, double it at least, and especially as you're getting older.

You want to be up to two grams per kilogram of body weight.

Now the guide that I had used was and forty grams of protein is what I was aiming for after I do a workout, and about forty grams of protein at each meal. But for me, you have to have that four times a day if you want to optimize protein synthesis. And this is what most people don't realize Grant right, is that we have a fur chunk of storage capacity for glucose in terms of liver glycogen and muscle glycogen. We've got an almost limitless storage capacity for fat.

So they've got to really think about focusing on protein.

You know, they hey, can you do this on Australia, Like, we're just it here. I've got a petition who's on a farm and that one of.

The cows was just charging your and tripping your against the fence. So they knocked it off and we got a quarter of it, which was but you can buy like and you say when they call it, you know, we'll get half a beast the other thing in Ausie and you can just like get a.

Load of Yeah, there's there's there's there's a lot of stuff now from from the farmer direct where you can just buy a massive amount. I mean, Cardie's dad has has caries up at his farm and occasionally he would butcher one and we get a bucket load of meat which was was fantastic. The vegans aren't going to like this little bit of the conversation, but anywhere.

This is the end of Part one.