#2 - Emily: I have a confession.

Hello passengers, this is your captain speaking and welcome to this episode of The One That Got A Gay. From a really early age I got comfortable that I would be on my own for the rest of my life. Drum roll, please. Welcome back to the one that got a gay. And can I just say, Al, I have not stopped smiling from last Monday.

What a launch day and what a reception that was. We have had the best response, I think we could have expected, to the first episode of our podcast. Honestly, it's been quite overwhelming, the number of messages, emails. comments we've had and just the outpouring of love towards what we produced and sent out last week it's just been absolutely incredible so thank you so much to everybody who's been in touch and yeah I'm just really glad that we've got more content to share with you because today

Emily, it's your turn to take the reins and you're in the firing line. Firing line, that sounds bad. I mean hot seat. I mean the hot seat. It's not squid game. It's not squid game. Oh, how topical. What a reference.

Tough act to follow with you telling your story last week, Albert. Let's get into it. Recall for me the first time you realise in your own mind... that there was something potentially quite special about you? There is a particular special moment that really stands out to me. And I do have to say that that is only... two and a half years ago plus like it's really recently that this happened and I was just going about my business doing my thing and

A new person came into my wider group of friends. A new lady came into my wider group of friends. And all of a sudden I realised that I had a magnet in my body because the pull of me towards her was something.

I honestly had never met like never felt before and I remember meeting her I remember going out for drinks and every single time I would kind of try and engineer getting close to her having a conversation and you know when you're excited to see someone when you're subtly asking people oh is so and so going to be there and if they say no you go I'm not coming then it was a very conscious thing for me I was really you know it was really

in my mind and it really stuck with me why are you so interested why are you so fascinated by this person which is interesting because we didn't have in the early you know when I first got to know her we didn't have that many conversations but

I made her my friend. We went out for dinner a lot. And it kind of became this weird... secret thing that we would do that my other friends in the wider group didn't really know about and then it all came to light that we'd been going for dinner together and

I felt really caught out. My friends said, oh, I didn't know you were really good friends. And I was like, oh, we're just friends that go for dinner. And they're like, oh, that's weird because you've not really mentioned it. And you don't ever speak to her when we're out together. i was like oh so why can't i be friends with other people you know why are you why are you calling it out why are you doing this and that is when something solidified in my mind and that is when actually

For the first time, I felt this excitement and I wanted to recreate it. I wanted to feel that feeling again and feel that bubble inside me. That was the moment. This person comes into your life when you're 24 or 25.

But what happens before then? What happens to Emily when she's in her teenage years? Is it any kind of moment... in that period of your life where potentially you recognise that something is different to maybe that of your peers or the other people who are around you? I do have to say that the special moment I've just talked about... is really a big confetti gun that went off. And I think that there's always, you know, I think I've always been gearing up to a moment like that. But I...

Don't think I've ever realised that that was the moment. To understand how I got there is to understand my kind of sexuality through my teenage and early 20 years. And for me... I completely shut myself off in those years. I didn't really date. I've had one long-term relationship with a man. And then after that confetti moment, I've had one long-term relationship with a woman and kind of, you know, bits and bobs in between, but nothing serious.

And ultimately, I believe that is because from an early age, I have almost desexualised myself, you know, putting myself out there to form a... you know a romantic connection for me was so linked to how I felt about myself and the way I looked and my self-esteem I shut it off I didn't let myself

you know embrace who i am and i didn't let myself have have that those moments and i didn't let myself have that fun so for you it wasn't that you were shutting down feelings of being gay or anything like that it was shutting down all feelings. You didn't give yourself a space to feel anything for anyone. Exactly. And it's so strange to reflect back on it now because my personality...

has always been outgoing. I'm quite a gregarious, flamboyant person. And I think for my friends that will listen to this episode of the podcast, it will be so surprising to them that I do have... fairly bad self-esteem problems, predominantly centered around the way that I look. And there's nothing, there's no moment in my childhood or my teenage years that I can really pinpoint.

that happening there's no trauma there's not really a particular landmark for me it's more just kind of an accumulation of comments you know when people call you ugly or they make comments about your weight or You know, I'm tall, so being called big and it more affirms for you the way that you're feeling about yourself. But with all those comments, people are constantly pointing out your differences. And if you're always being reminded of what makes you different.

it's kind of no wonder in a way that you didn't either want to explore feelings related to sexuality or you didn't have the capacity to because in every single way your mind was just constantly being told that you're different to people and the negative connotation of being different not the positive connotation of being different so why when it comes to sexuality particularly would you want to differentiate yourself from the masses if

you're already getting a degree of abuse or negativity put towards you based on all these other characteristics. And that is at the centre of, I think, why I am...

I've struggled and why I am realizing that struggle now. I have always been very comfortable with being invisible from a relationship and romantic perspective. It's still something I struggle with today. And I think admitting to myself that I am queer, I am gay, is different. It's a difference. It's something that I've always tried to shut down. And it's breaking the habit of a lifetime for me, essentially. And what is quite upsetting to me is that...

for somebody that has got so much love to give and so much love to put out into the world, from a really early age, I got comfortable that I would be on my own for the rest of my life. And... It genuinely really upsets me now that I was so ready to give up on myself.

and not celebrate those differences and to kind of let them beat me down a bit and let the way that I felt myself felt about myself beat me down to the point where I kind of reclused inside and I just want to say from a friendship perspective everyone's best friend love it I've always said I'm in love with my friends but I think that that is why I am still struggling with my sexuality and I am still very much on a journey

Because it's such an alien concept for me to look inside myself and to have that introspection. I think that's why it's still not done. But it also sounds like it's alien to you to feel love. from another person potentially in light of who you are and how you see yourself yeah that's taken me back a bit that's kind of a an interesting way to look at it i'd never thought that i was

maybe worthy of being loved or I never thought that I was worthy to be desired. And I think to not be desired and to not feel desirable. It's actually quite a crushing feeling for anyone. And there were moments in my life that I was like, I must be asexual. I must be asexual, you know. I'm not... Nobody really likes me. I don't think I really like anyone else. I'm, you know, that...

I have to kind of pinpoint what this feeling is inside me. And for a long time I thought that I potentially was asexual. And was the idea of being asexual something that was more comfortable? potentially, than being gay or being bi or something else? I don't think that until the moments that I have had more recently in my life...

Me being queer or bi or gay was even on my radar, quite honestly. For me, it was quite a... a binary option it was you're either straight or you're either asexual and there was no colour there was no beautiful technique colour in between it was literally you're this or you're that and now I've opened you know I've now I've unlocked and I've opened that up

It's so, it really, you know, I want this to be positive. I want this to be a positive thing. It's so uplifting and it's so freeing to kind of just smash that and to get rid of it and to think, okay. That's not the only two options. Who are you and what do you want?

You said you haven't taken much time up until the age that you are now. to think about who you are as a person and what you want and to put aside those societal expectations, those familial expectations, those expectations that people around you are constantly putting on you. How has COVID given you the time to discover or understand yourself better? Covid has given us hundreds of hours of thinking time and when you've got big life questions hanging above your head it's been

It's been exhausting. I have sat and I've thought about what's got me to this point in my life. I've thought about decisions that I've made. I've agonised over the way that I've done things. you know, the opportunities I have and haven't taken. And ultimately, I think it's shaken my confidence in myself a bit. It's been kind of two-toned. On the one hand, I'm here.

I'm being honest about where I am. I'm being honest that I'm still very much on a journey of understanding myself. But on the other hand, am I putting question marks against things and am I still discovering... myself and wanting to make it more ambiguous because ultimately I still feel a sense of shame and I felt a sense of guilt about being queer gay So it's been, let's just say I'm glad we're coming out of it now. But it's been tough and I think it's been tough for a lot of people.

Take us back a couple of years, Emily. You're having these clandestine dinners that your friends are sort of suspicious about. Where does that lead? Obviously, you started something there. You started telling us about something. Where does that progress to?

meeting that individual and having those dinners really did ignite something within me. And I think very similar to you, that's where dating apps come in. And that's when that kind of fast... fast dating instant dating it's actually quite helpful because if you if you want to try it you've got the technology and you've got it at your fingertips to to kind of give it a go and

Obviously, these things are designed to become addictive. So I downloaded Tinder. Other dating apps are available. And I would Tinder all the time. I would Tinder... At work, on the toilet, in the kitchen, at night. And this was all using tinder gold, I must say. And that's not a plug. I think that was my recommendation. Oh, it was?

I feel like I should have had some sort of referral bonus. So you can see other people, but they don't see you unless you've liked them. So you are completely in control of the situation. I think the funniest moment... of that for me was that i was tindering on the toilet and i hadn't locked the door because i'm an animal and my housemate opened the door was like oh didn't know you were in here

And on my phone, staring up at us both, was this woman on this dating app. And I remember locking eyes with her and thinking, don't you dare look down, get out of here, don't look down. And that for me...

almost gave the whole experience a sense of danger, which actually was quite exciting because I was trying something new. But because I hadn't really told anyone about it... there was no accountability there was no one to say oh how's that going or how's that feeling for you and it was actually quite a precious time in my life those early days of Opening that door to my sexuality and allowing myself no strings attached to explore things. And did you meet anybody? So I did. I travelled.

50 minutes outside of London and went on a date and ended up dating a woman for a year and a half. It was a really important relationship for me and Ultimately, I don't think it worked out because I was a different person after that year and a half than I was when I first started dating because the development and the... The kind of things that I opened myself up to just made me quite a different person. And at what, if any, point did you have a coming out?

in all of this was there a big announcement was there a youtube video you know did you have to go through that process or did it just naturally happen tell me about that process for you The start of my coming out journey was definitely telling... one of my closest friends. And it was even before you, Al, there were two people who were my confidants and who were my support through all of this. And this was really even before I started.

kind of dating and putting myself in the dating scene was definitely kind of I'd started tindering but I was drunk at a party I was rat assed at a party I remember locking myself in a bathroom and getting my phone and drunk messaging we've all done it you put all your you know you put head to phone and it just it just all came pouring out and I've got the message actually I look back and I've got the message and I'd like to read it out now so it starts with my friend's name I have a confession

And I can only make this because I'm running. I can only think that I'm drunk or I'm drinking because I most certainly was not running. I think I am bi. Please don't judge me, but I fancy girls with short hair, and I haven't been able to tell anyone, and it's been killing me. Please still love me. I've been so sad, but I need to tell you. I feel like I'm lying to myself.

This is so awkward and I won't be able to speak to you tomorrow or look you in the eye. Please ignore everything I've said. I am Kay Hun. I will see you in 28 days time when I'm ready to talk about this. I mean... My poor friend, who must have woken up on Sunday and thought, what is the Duchess of Drama messaging me about now? But I remember sending all those messages in quick succession and literally feeling like...

the world was going to end. Literally feeling that I would wake up the next morning and something awful would have happened. And I was so upset. I was on the edge of tears. I think I must have... gone home after that because it's pretty hard to salvage a night after that's happened but that was the start well i'm desperate to know what this friend said back so she responded and said

Emily, I love you. You know I always will. Don't worry about this. Don't be so silly. And it was all very supportive. It was all very lovely. But it didn't help. I think a more strong... allergic reaction would have almost been more useful to me the fact that she was so supportive and so loving didn't didn't help me for some reason but was that because up until this point in your life

When you're giving people news or you're receiving this kind of feedback from people, it's always negative. And in a way, you've actually kind of become addicted to the negative. reaction and this time you've been given a positive reaction and it's something you're just not used to and you don't know what to do with that. You don't have the tools you need to interpret what she's saying and to accept it ultimately.

absolutely and it was mixed up with relief anger if i'm honest i don't know why i felt angry but i really did And it's almost that thing that something has been eating you up inside. And I was really sad and it was quite a self-destructive time in my life because I knew that I wasn't being honest with myself about something, but I couldn't put my finger on it.

I'd beaten myself up about it for so long. And then here was one of my closest friends who I love dearly being like, yeah, it's cool. And it was kind of like, how dare you trivialise this when it is... been eating me up for months and months and months and I've said it out well I haven't said it out loud I put it in a message and the reaction was just not what I thought it would be

But that was really the catalyst that gave me confidence to start dating and to start putting myself out there. I know you have a lot of friends.

By this point you ticked off one person. How did you go about telling everybody else? It was more circumstantial than an actual conscious choice to tell everybody else. I had been dating my girlfriend at the time for four to six months.

And she lived way outside of London and I wanted her to come and stay with me. So I thought I need to tell my housemates because I want to be open. I'm really enjoying the relationship that I'm in. I want to share it. But ultimately, I want to have her come and stay. in London and I know that I can't be tactile and close with her because it would just you know there'll be questions there'll be too much drama so I thought I need to tell them so I remember on a Sunday evening

Sitting them both down in the living room and saying, guys, I've got something to tell you. And then bursting into tears. And I hate crying in front of people. You are an ugly crier. Thank you so much. And they say now that they thought I was pregnant, having an affair, was moving out. And I said, I am dating a woman. I'm in a relationship with a woman. And I literally almost remember the relief on their face. They kind of thought it was something really awful.

And again, for me, I was like, this has been awful. This cage that I've put myself in, that I finally found a way out of, has been terrible. And they were totally nonchalant about it, totally cool about it. And it gave me the confidence to go and speak to my close friends in London, my uni friends and tell them and let them know and have some really, you know, I had some really lovely conversations with those people around me.

In all of that, there's quite a big glaring gap. Family. Have you told your family about all of this? A year into my relationship, a lot of my close friends, and I think that... you were one of them, were kind of asking the question, have you told your parents at least? Do your family know?

Because I think for a lot of my friends, they'd never seen me so happy. And actually, it was something that they thought would be a really positive thing for me to share with my parents. But given my upbringing of being in a traditional religious... quite conservative household, I had my reservations. I wasn't sure. So a year in, I went home.

We were all sat around. We'd had a lovely day, kind of belated birthday celebrations. And we were talking about something mundane. And all of a sudden, I started...

I started just speaking about it. I started saying, I've got something to tell you. And I'd almost kind of like pressed play on that dialogue before even realising what I was doing. But it was obviously something that was just... wanting to come out of me so that conversation was so mundane you took it upon yourself to start telling your religious family that you're gay essentially yeah never a dull moment with me

And I just came out with it. I said, I've got something to tell you. And my mum just was kind of looking at me thinking, what? And I said, I'm dating a woman. I've been dating a woman for the past year. And I've never felt such a stomach-dropping moment in my whole entire life. It went well with one parent and it didn't go well with the other parent. One parent ran over, gave me a hug. It's fine. We still love you. You know, I think...

They actually said, when you don't bring someone home or you don't bring a man home for years and years, you do start to wonder if there's something else going on. The other parent was shocked. And the other parent really struggled with it, and I think still really struggles with it today. They kind of sat there, almost rocking a bit back and forth, going, you like women, you're dating a woman.

You like women. And that was heartbreaking for me. You know, I've given my family a lot of support over the years and I've always been quite a rock. I kind of felt so betrayed because the one time that I really needed them to support me, you know, getting emotional just talking about it, I felt that one of them wasn't really there for me.

Then I called you. I remember it really clearly. I was very unhelpfully in an airport at the time when you called me. And you had called me in floods of tears. And I just knew as soon as I picked up the phone.

something had gone wrong but i thought you would tell me when you were planning on doing it and you hadn't so i didn't even suspect that that's what that was what had happened when you called me i was like what the hell is going on and then it quickly sort of transpired that things weren't good and it was related to coming out yeah and I did it at the kind of beginning of the weekend because I didn't want to just say it and run like you did and

So I kind of had to then endure it. I really wanted to run away back to London, but I thought, no, you're a grown woman. You've said this very important thing. It's a shock. You need to appreciate that it is a shock. So you need to kind of stand by it and be there to almost help them through it and to kind of just be there. It didn't get any better.

you know the parent that took it well sat me down and said just the most beautiful thing they said I always knew that you were special but I didn't know that you were special until now and that was lovely because That is just what I needed. I went back to London and I then didn't speak to my parents for two, three months. And that's that. was unusual. We would speak on the phone to each other twice a week and it was almost this weird stalemate where I was expecting them to reach out to me.

And I think they were expecting me to reach out to them. They both sent me a lovely message when I got back to London, I think, just to let me know that they still loved me. But I needed the aftercare from them. I needed... I needed more. But I think because of their generation, because of their upbringing, I don't think they knew how to manage it. I don't think they, you know, they didn't.

They haven't told any of their friends. They haven't, you know, I think they're from a generation where you don't speak openly about mental health or being gay or anything that is different. And so I think that...

It's something that they've also kind of struggled to know what to do. To this day, there is still half my family that do not know that I am queer, gay, and... that is something that I need to think about and need to address but I think after that reaction I almost want to look after myself a bit more and set myself up for

success in completing that part of the story. Do you think it's almost harder for the friends and family of people who come out later in life to accept that they are queer because often they already have a very formed view of who you are as a person and in a way it's kind of having to bury someone or to say goodbye to somebody who they thought they knew yes i do and that is actually one of the things that my parent that didn't take it well said to me they said

This completely changes our relationship and it completely changes the future that I wanted for you. And I think when it is later on in life... people think that they know how the rest of your life is going to play out and it's almost I think to them that you're ripping out that rug from underneath them and for people that don't deal well with change or don't deal well

with disruption it's quite difficult for them to comprehend and get their head around because ultimately your sexuality doesn't change your personality for me I think it just enhances it and I think that for some people it's not viewed like that it's well if you are gay if you are queer if you are trans you are a different person you've been living a lie and I don't know who you are because that is so fundamental to your being

And then you get into this weird place where you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. You don't tell people you've been lying to them, you've been hiding something. You do tell people.

You've been lying and you've been hiding something. So ultimately, I think it is more difficult when people have a formed view of you. Where do things stand now with your parents? At the moment, our relationship is back on track. We're very much where we were. And, you know, the love's there. It's wonderful. But my sexuality is not something that is spoken about and it's not something that has been addressed.

There have been a handful of conversations. When I broke up with my girlfriend, my parent that took it badly said, have you broken up? And I said yes. And that's been it.

For me, COVID has really shown me that when you are older and your parents are older, you do really need to treasure the time that you have with them. And it's almost that I don't want to... upset people i don't want to be a burden i don't want to be a source of drama for my family and i think that's why at the moment i'm quite comfortable to just let them absorb it

And I would hope that when they're ready in their own time or when the parent that had a bad reaction, you know, when they're ready in their own time, they will speak to me about it. You look like you could do with a break. So let's take a few seconds, get a little lemonade, and we'll come back.

We're back. We're full of bubbles. And I want you to tell me what the future holds for Emily. Doing this podcast and doing this episode has been so empowering for me. that I want to keep that positive momentum going, I want to open myself up to loads of experiences, meeting loads of different new people and I'm excited about what the future holds.

What I'm taking from that is everyone needs to start a podcast. Oh no, not a couple of millennials that have started a podcast. What a novel idea. How dare they? Therapy is getting very expensive though, so. We're amongst friends here, so why don't you tell us about some of your funny dating stories? I mean, I would say where to start with dating stories, but there's not a lot to call upon, really.

I will go with one particular dating debacle, I will call it, and give you all the juicy details about that. I was talking to a lovely lady she says with inclination in her voice for about a week and we decided to go for some drinks in covent garden

We met up. It was very relaxed, good chat, good banter. The alcohol was free-flowing. Good vibes. As the evening went on, there was... A few things that started to come to light and a few tales and stories that were being told that made me think, OK, you've got layers. I was on a date with an onion. I really was. Did she make you cry? She nearly did, yes. When she got very aggressive and started talking in a Glaswegian accent to the table next to us. Unprovoked.

And I was sat there thinking, should I do my Welsh accent and should I get involved? Or should I just let you, you know, join the other table and we'll say our goodbyes? The first story... that grabbed my attention was the fact that she said she nearly couldn't come and meet me. for our date because she'd had very severe food poisoning because she'd eaten a burrito that she'd found in a jacket pocket that had been there for five to seven days.

To your point, where do you start with that? I mean... Was she wearing the jacket which she'd found the burrito in? I don't think so, no. I assume it stank. But also, I can only assume that that had some kind of meat in it. No, do not...

eat no so anyway I was like oh right okay bad times she then told me about how she was fired for being so hung over at work she was sick on the office floor in front of everyone and she was crying and she was just in a complete state because she was so hungover but perhaps the best story of all was when she told me that she once went to a music festival and she was so off her tits on naughty things that she tried to bury

her way out or dig her way out of the music festival underneath the railings with her teeth I was thinking okay we all exaggerate on dates we all tell stories we all add a bit of drama She then showed me. Yeah, we've all got at a festival, off our tits on drugs, borrowing ourselves out of the campsite photos on our phones. Sure.

We've all been there, guys. No wonder you didn't get the spotlight on your dates. So she showed me photographic evidence of her with mud all over her face, eyes looking different ways, teeth... covered in mud and i went all right okay and i and i just had to ask why why were you trying to dig your way out of a music festival underneath the the railings with your mouth with your mouth and she said

I thought I was a World War II prisoner and I had to escape. And I went, right, okay, no, that's cool. And she thought it was hysterical. She then... proceeded to make pig noises at the table next to us. Would you like to provide an example of the pig noises? Genuinely, she started going... Oh, okay. Don't do that again. And she said, look at those girls and made pig noises. She wasn't making, she wasn't insinuating that they look like pigs. Yeah.

Because they were just a group of girls having cocktails, having some nice bar snacks. And she started like insinuating that they were pigs. It actually upset me. Because I thought, oh my goodness, I am one of those girls that goes out with my friends and has cocktails and bar snacks and has a bloody good time. And I think the best bit of the story was that...

She ghosted me. I mean, I would say you dodged a bullet hugely there. But perhaps she didn't ghost you. Maybe she just was so high that night she forgot she'd even been on a date. I think she's probably still... doing the Scottish accent on different dates, telling those same stories. Snorting at people in bars. I mean, that was awful. That was so uncomfortable. Well, good luck to her. Good luck, indeed.

Any other horror stories? Oh, I once went to Heathrow Terminal 5. I'm going to stop you there. That sounds awful.

One of the main reasons we started this podcast was we felt we had something worthwhile sharing. So would you like to share some of the advice you have for other people who may be in a similar situation to you that might help them through? I have three key pieces of advice to share with our lovely listeners. The first one is to not be hard on yourself. The second one is to be kind to yourself. And the third one is that

There are no right or wrong ways to approach your sexuality and sharing your sexuality with other people. You sound like you're just reading off a list of Jess Glynn songs. Was that really Jess Glynn-like? I think so. Oh, okay. That's how I hear it in my head when I listen to that song. Oh, okay. In all seriousness, what advice do you have for our listeners? I think all of those three points that I've just made in the medium of Jess Glynn.

and embrace your sexuality embrace who you are and embrace and own your journey if it took you longer to come out or if it's taking you longer to come out don't beat yourself up about it do things at your own pace But just be mindful of not holding yourself back and making excuses for not making the progress that you want to make.

That marks the end of this episode of The One That Got A Gay. Thank you for listening and thank you for sticking with us. We would love to hear from you if you'd like to get involved in the podcast or if you'd like to share a story or ask us a question. please reach out to us via instagram at the one that got a gay or via gmail the one that got a gay at gmail.com love you bye