Hi everyone, before we get started we have some exciting news to share about the podcast. We've been nominated for two Sports Podcast Awards, Best Football Podcast and Best Team Podcast and we'd greatly appreciate your support. Thank you. Mickey could try to sell his car privately. Or get it sold today with We Buy Any Car. He could spend days on end trying to sell to a bunch of time wasters. Or sell in a flash and head to the fun fair with the kids.
Proper gutted. Or proper impressed. To get a quote in 30 seconds, enter your reg number now at The official Brighton & Hove Albion podcast. Pre-match music or pre-match silence? Definitely music. I can't do the silence. I don't like it. I don't like slow music either. Like you need to get hyped? Yeah, like now I'm listening to the girls, they listen to love songs before games and I'm thinking, what's wrong?
When you were playing, would the girls not have said, Danny, you're going to be a coach one day? No, they used to tell me, shut up. They're not allowed to do that anymore. Yeah, you can't say that anymore, no. When I got signed... It was a big deal to the family. I remember my dad came, my mum came.
it was a massive thing and i was like all right guys no one's cared about it so far and it's like we all turned up right now so we're wanting tickets yeah yeah my brother's getting free training kit and all sorts so i was like okay i see what's going on here Welcome to the official Brighton & Hove Albion podcast, everyone. Glenn Murray and Paul Hayward here, back on the pod with another great guest for you. Yes, today we're excited to speak with a true leader on and off the pitch, Daniel Bowman.
With a career spanning 15 years, Danielle played for some of the biggest clubs in the game, Arsenal, Chelsea and Notts County, before captaining Brighton, before hanging up her boots in 2022. But her story didn't end with retirement. Transitioning from player to coach, Danielle now leads Brighton women's under-19s, shaping the next generation of football talent. So let's explore her journey from life on the grass...
to leading from the sidelines and discover what keeps her passion for football burning bright. So here she is, Danielle Bowman. So, Danny, you are now head coach of the women's under-19 team here. You had a little run at it. You were explaining to me as interim. You enjoyed it and you applied for the job full-time. You got it. What was it that you enjoyed about it so much?
I just enjoy working with young girls that almost want to just listen to what you're saying. They're like little sponges. And, yeah, they...
The group that we've got and the kids that are coming through, they're fantastic footballers. So I guess for me, it's just a great opportunity to try and help them. I really enjoy just... trying to nurture players and I did it when I was captain like I don't mind taking the younger players on board and like trying to help them as much as you can so I guess I enjoyed the feeling of trying to make them better. Sometimes you don't always make them better, but you just try and help them and then...
When you see them and they do something that they've been working on for the last few weeks or the last few months and it hasn't really been working out and then all of a sudden they just get it. It's like a light bulb moment. Because they're so young, they're like... so happy with themselves and it that that means more than anything really like the results at our age is less
less relevant but like watching them develop and grow and like obviously ultimately we want them to try and get into our first team and that is the ultimate goal for us as under 19 staff you know that's what we pride ourself on really as staff and as coaches really. How far ahead, so is this generation of under-19s to your generation of under-19s? I don't know how to compare it.
But it's noticeable. So the coaching at... the younger ages now and the coaches coming through and the the girls understanding and knowledge of like you know not not so much systems but technical ability ball manipulation like understanding of our possession what that
means 1v1 jewels like that was never really spoken about especially in my generation growing up it was more about you know pass and move and and simple things like that but these kids coming through they're unbelievable some of the things that you do
it just blows my mind. And I just think, oh my God, it's going to be good in a few years. I know it's going to be good. So yeah, I don't know how to measure it, but the gap is certainly there and it's great to see. And it's super exciting for me as a coach.
that I can... get the opportunity to work with these sort of players and then really all you're trying to do is fine tune them because they've already got the capabilities technically on the ball all you're trying to sort of do a little bit is the tactical stuff that comes as you get older within your game and you get to more like 19s and firsts
team the tactical stuff is quite big but like their capabilities on the ball is just unreal to be fair yeah because i was saying to glenn before the before you came on that i go and watch quite a bit of women's football and I would argue that over the last two years, the technical and tactical standard of professional women's football has improved faster than...
probably any other team sport has improved you know in any other professional sport and if you went away for a year and came back and watched the same team in a you know a year later you'd say my god that's not what i saw a year ago and you're in danger of It's sounding a bit patronising when you say that, but it's an actual fact, isn't it, that the rate of improvement is spectacular. Yeah, and I have to say that is probably...
due to the coaching. So the coaches, their level of coaching and understanding and input and just general all-round coaching ability. is probably the main reason why the girls now... are at a higher level i think we've also struggled physically well now you don't see that the girls physically can match that you know the intensity of games you can see every single week now in the wsl like the intensity and the ability for high speed running is there
So, yeah, and I mean, like you said, you can come away from a year, but in another year, it's going to just go even further. And I mean, obviously, I was lucky that when I played here... We came in and it wasn't pretty. It wasn't, you know, when we was playing, it wasn't pretty. We just had to get through the league. We had to stay in the WSL.
And now I look and I get to see every single day, walk in the building, the calibre of player that is in the first team. It's just unreal. And I'm just like, oh my God, the young girls, the academy girls that get the opportunity to see them.
I mean, that would just motivate me more than anything. Do you know what I mean? So it's fantastic to watch and hopefully we can keep growing it and keep pushing it in the right direction with the right support and the right funding and just the right people to nurture it.
I think you have to have people that care about the product and women's football is a product and we just have to have the right people around it to sort of keep encouraging it. Even in when there are moments where maybe the quality isn't always there, you still need to have people that back.
back what you're doing and understand the process that you're trying to get to. And that's one thing that Brighton has always done. From the moment I stepped in as a player, I knew that this was the right club that was willing to support and push and just be a big... advocate of the women's game. It was the one thing that brought me here from a player point of view and it's the reason I came back then as a coach because I just knew it was in the right place and it cared.
And I think that's really important for the women's game that you care about it. It's so important that it's led in the right direction at the moment because like we say, the growth is just so quick at the moment. It really is incredible. Talk to me about...
obviously you're part of the pathway how much would it mean to you as a young girl to have the pathway that these girls have got now but in all fairness though you generationally a part of creating this pathway aren't you yeah and I people do say that you I guess you don't
feel that does that make sense you always just think well I was just doing my job or I just did it because I loved it and I suppose when I started I just did it because I loved it we you know you didn't get paid it wasn't a full-time thing i just loved football so much like so now when i look and i see what we give the girls and the facilities and the just
the all-round package that comes with women's football, I just think, oh my God, you're so lucky. And I guess sometimes I sit back and I just think, please appreciate what you've got, girls, because... I was at a club where two nights before the season started, they pulled the plug on us. So I know what it feels like to have the women's team just stripped. So I'm like, girls, just appreciate what you got because the opportunity and the...
all-round care that comes here. Everyone wants the girls to achieve something. Everyone wants them to go on and just hit their potential that they can. And I'm just like, you've got to sometimes give them a bit of a shake, haven't you? Because they do forget. Like, they're kids, aren't they? They forget. And they're like, oh, no, it's just like, you know, it's just what you get. And then you're like, actually, girls, this isn't what you're getting.
We are so fortunate at this club with the support and the backing. And I'm just like, please, just keep remembering where you are and what we've got here. So, yeah, I think it's... If I was a 12-year-old coming in and, you know, Frank Kirby was in the first team, that would give me enough motivation to one day hopefully try and be on the pitch with her and play with her. So, yeah, hopefully it inspires the girls and they've got now role models.
they can look up to which for a long for a lot the generation we didn't we had male players that we looked up to so yeah hopefully it's a good it has its benefits and we start seeing that anyway So you're under 19s. Where are you finding your players? Where do you get them from? To be fair, we have a lot of local girls. So we've had like our ETCs that I like.
soccer schools or um camps that the girls come into and then the foundation from the younger girls of younger ages pick them up and then ultimately if they're good enough then they come into our academy system we are we've also looked around at southeast london so we have girls that come from london
And again, another thing like the club does, they put on a club minibus, they go pick them up, they drive them down. Because we still train two nights a week in the evening. So to get girls from South East London on a minibus down, you know, that comes with all different... sort of like
situations that we have to deal with but yeah like you just have to look around the catchment area obviously we're a little bit tired because half of our catchment area is the sea so we can't go we can't go recruiting the sea so we have to look 90 minutes around the outside Yeah, so it's 90 minutes or, yeah. So it does, you know, your hands are a little bit tired at certain points, but I think also like word of mouth, you know what I mean? Like when...
you get to the under-19s level, you can sort of spread your wings a bit more and you can recruit from further afield. And I think if you're a player that's maybe up north... and you look at the package and what we do here and what we give the girls.
i think that would that opens more avenues and we get more players wanting to come to us and trial with us and stuff like that so but at the younger ages from like 12 to 16 it's the 90 minutes so we are a little bit tired but we still go and find them like it's
We've got some absolute gems, honestly. Some of these kids are just unreal and I can't wait till... you know four years when they're old enough and then i can start working with them but i've got to be a bit patient with that but yeah so that's sort of how it works in the women's side in terms of like how recruitment happens when you talk about that 12 to 16 years in the academy, obviously you've alluded to the facilities and how incredible they are. Is it a worry that...
If it wasn't to work out here and they were to rock up somewhere else, it'll be a major shock for them. Yeah, and I think what we tend to find is if unfortunately a player doesn't come through or doesn't... progress and ultimately maybe leaves under 14s under 15s they'll go to other training grounds and and sometimes it is a bit
of reality check. But I think what you're now finding within most WSL teams and some championship teams, the facilities are now starting to be more women specific. So a lot of clubs have their own women's departments.
which is great, right? So you're not just the one or two teams that are the bigger teams, I guess. But a lot more are supporting the women's programme. And I think that then... helps the younger generation but then makes our job a little bit harder because we can't recruit them as much but I know full well speaking to anyone that walks into that women's building over there or even this building over here, they're like, wow. It just blows your mind.
and obviously that's just credit to tony that he's willing to to back these programs uh and he believes he knows what it means and he cares about it right so otherwise he wouldn't do it but um Yeah, I think for some that do leave the programme, there is a bit of a reality check that's quite hard for them at times. But, yeah. How much of what you do on the coaching field is dictated by how the first team operates? Because in some clubs obviously...
Do you adopt the same playing style, the same outlook? Is that your job to make them first team players? I think that's the Brighton philosophy, the Brighton way. I think whether it's the first team or the men's team or the boys 18s or our girls 14. we have a very similar style of play that obviously everyone knows about. We're not dictated to by what the first team do, but ultimately it helps to have a bit of a...
a model that we can sort of start to work off. But I guess if you look at the first team calibre of players compared to an under 19s or 16s, there's a big gap. So you also have to be able to be versatile, right? So certain players... we might not have their skill set to play in the certain formation. So then you have to be able to adjust. I think also from a younger point of view in a player, if we put the players into a bracket and tell them to play a certain way, then...
maybe when they come to 21, 22 and they've moved to a different club and a manager wants to play a different style, have we really given them the tool set to go and play a different style of football? Maybe not. So for a younger player... We know how we want to play out and we have a clear identity in our playing out philosophy, but we still have to be able to be versatile in the sense that what your squad gives you.
It sort of dictates you what you then play in terms of systems and formations and styles. But in terms of the Brighton brand, it's all about possession and being an attractive brand of football. But how that then works with different pieces, that's slightly different.
based off caliber of player that you've got, really. So as a coach, you have got a little bit of freedom to put the team out how you wish. Yeah, definitely. So, and I think as long as you also then justify why you're doing it, I think that gives you... clear motive for why that's happened. Obviously in certain moments they might want to see a certain player in a specific position so then we'll be like okay that's fine we'll sort of dictate to from what the first team want and stuff like that.
as a whole it's pretty free for us to work off. um like our own blueprint if that makes sense but um yeah it's it's quite good in that sense but i think it's also it's very much based on who you've got players wise and their capabilities are you are you in in touch with Dario much.
Yeah, so we're all in the same building. Yeah, all in the same building. So it'll either be me and Dario or me and Chris. But I mean, like any first team manager, you're very busy, aren't you? So he's sometimes like busy doing tactics or game plan.
So then it'll be with Chris. But as a link between the 19s and the first team, it's quite close. And I think we have to be because if they need players, then we got to be ready to give them players that are ready to step up with the first team. And then if they need players that are returning from injury.
or anything and they need minutes then we'll have a discussion and they'll come and play in the 19s league so yeah it's quite close and like we've had chats about certain formations and I'll be struggling with a certain thing that we're trying to do and he will help and it's great to be fair that there is such a close unit and it's not just I suppose with Dario, he's willing to give time to every coach, which is great because we've all got same questions about a similar...
point of the playing style that we're trying to implement and we all come out of our problems that we're facing in games and Dario is there he'll help us and and sort of guide us and give his advice in that situation so yeah it's it's quite a close network of coaches over on the other side. Does that ever go the other way with your knowledge of the WSL?
Well, in all fairness, they knew if they'd like information, they'd be there. But Chris is obviously the assistant coach and he's been in the WSL probably the same amount of time as I have, but he's obviously been a coach and stuff. So, yeah, I mean, if they ever asked and needed information...
information on players or anything like that then I would be happy but the knowledge and the staffing over there they all know what they're doing and stuff like that so sometimes too many cooks isn't it we should ask you a bit about your own career very distinguished career um arsenal and chelsea for example international football how do you reflect on that now what were the highlights of your own playing career yeah i mean sometimes you
It's when you stop. I suppose when I was playing, you don't really... take into account what you're doing or where you're at and stuff like that but it's when you stop that you start to realise oh blimey actually I've done done all right really so yeah I mean I have to say I was so fortunate in my career like I was coached by some amazing coaches that um have really shaped me as a player and definitely now as a coach as well. In terms of highlights, there's so many.
Like obviously getting your England debut or getting called up to the first England camp, I'll always remember that moment. And then I suppose I shouldn't openly say this, but being that we're a Chelsea family, when I got signed by... chelsea it was a big deal to the family like i remember my dad came my mom came like it was a massive thing and i was like all right guys no one's cared about it so far and it's like you all turned up right now
my brother's getting free training kit and all sorts so i was like okay i see what's going on here um but yeah so so that was quite a big thing for the family um but yeah like as as a whole i suppose i was i was just so fortunate like players that i played with played against and and now i see what they're up to and i think that's the the footballing world right you just you you might have met each other in football
but you'll be friends forever. And like, you know, I see them now, they're on Sky or they're doing comms or they're a coach. And I'm just like, it's really nice to see that so many have stayed within the game and can give back to the game.
That obviously gave them so many happy memories and good experiences. Some people we get in here, some coaches sound like they were born to coach. And I must say you sound like one of those people. You sound like a natural coach to me. Would you agree, Glenn? Yeah, I do.
yeah so when did when did you decide when did you start to feel that you could be a coach at this level so it was when i joined here within the first year i got like a bad injury but it was one that was I knew was going to shorten my career I knew that something was it wasn't going to be like long term and I had a period of not playing and hope at the time it was my manager was like
take that session for me and I was like absolutely not I wasn't like for me I was like I am not coaching like I want to be on the pitch stop trying to make me coach and it was literally at that very moment I remember it was on pitch five on the 3G and we had like a in-house 11v11
and I was like oh I like this like I I wanted to be on the pitch but I quite enjoyed the fact I couldn't and I was like oh actually this is all right isn't it so so yeah so it was literally here because if someone had asked me before that I would have been like absolutely not being a coach like can't do it I want to be on the pitch I want to play all the time but I suppose as you get to the back end of your career and you don't play as much you're like
i still want to be involved i still want to give back and and i loved like analyzing my games and and watching the games back and the detail i used to go into as a player and i was like You could just see that, I don't know, it just became natural that then I did my badges and I was like, oh, this is all right, actually. And then the planning of the sessions and my thought process behind it.
But in terms of a natural coach, I don't know if I'm a natural coach. You'd have to ask the girls if that's the case. But I do really enjoy it. And it's probably the closest I could be to still playing without playing. So, yeah, I guess that's... Yeah, I don't know if I thought I was going to be a natural coach or be a coach. When I was younger, I wouldn't have said that. When you were playing, would the girls not have said...
Then you're going to be a coach one day. No, they used to tell me, shut up. They're not allowed to do that anymore. Yeah, you can't say that anymore. No, no one ever really did. I think it was Hope that saw it. And it was hope that really pushed me to go and do my badges and start doing, I think, my level three. And then we did it with the 16 scholars, I think. And then we did my B with the 16 scholars and then the A licence also here.
So it was kind of a full circle moment because I did my B and I used the under 21s. Oh, they're under 16s. Then I did my A and I used the under 21s. And then it was like, oh, I've come back now and I'm the head coach of the...
what was the under 21s under 19s and i'm like it's a full circle moment really for me really so yeah it's it's quite interesting and then When I joined in December, some of the girls that I'd coached doing my A licence and B licence, they were like, do you remember when you...
used to coach us and i was like oh my god i've come back that's nice yeah it was really nice and they were like oh we really loved your sessions and stuff like that so i was like oh that's good because you're permanently stuck with me now so yeah there you go i told you you're an actual coach um And obviously everyone at this club emphasizes the pastoral side of it, looking after players as people. And you're dealing with an age group that, you know, it's a fluid age for anybody, male or female.
um do you enjoy that side of it just making sure they're okay as people yeah i think that's probably the the area that i've had to develop the most coming into the role um because i suppose what i'd come off the back of is playing in a first team and then I obviously went and then coached in a first team at West Ham. So then...
that side wasn't as needed because you're working with elite players, adults. It's more direct communication, isn't it? Yeah, they don't need me to put my arm around them and make sure they're okay. And so coming into the role, it's probably been the biggest development area for me.
is like understanding actually you've got school you've got travel and you've got exams and you've got these stresses and you've got this going on outside and you just don't you don't remember that as like when you was a player um so yeah like the wraparound that we have here is just, it's something that the support of the rest of the coaches and staff around me have helped and I now understand the reasons for it and the pressure that.
the young kids are under and we have to keep remembering they're young adults right so I'm working with literally 15 16 well actually 14 15 16 and 17 year olds and that that's quite that's quite it's quite an age range as well so they all have different stresses at different points um and i guess as well you have to be lenient so that sometimes they just have a bad day and it's it's okay to have a bad day like i mean
I suppose that, yeah, when you're in the first team, you can't afford to have a bad day, right? You have a bad day, you're out of the team. And you just can't, can you? And then so I'm like, actually, just... You got to give them a break. So yeah, the staff around me really help with that understanding and just remembering they're like kids. So yeah. The reason I'm smiling is because...
As a player, you are so mentally driven, aren't you? I think all professional players, men or women, lack a little bit of empathy, don't they? Yeah. And you need to tone that up as you sort of go into the academy because, like you say, you're dealing with elite players.
communication it's often under a lot of stress there's a direct outcome to what you're doing so yeah a lot of it is yeah it's uh it's a different i suppose style of leadership isn't it and communication as well right so the way you communicate with them has a big impact. So some players, most players don't respond to like a first team style of communication. Not because they don't want to, they're just probably not used to it. Do you think it's a generational thing?
It could be a generational thing. I think it could be not just football, right? It could be just worldwide. We're mindful of how we talk to the young kids these days and we want to let them... find their way in the world rather than like when I was younger it was like no you do this you do that you go here you do that kick the ball there you know I mean so yeah I guess I'm having to adapt quickly to that
Which is a good challenge. It's a really good challenge. Sometimes, yeah, I probably could do better at it. But I'm really lucky that I've got people and close staff around me that... They support me because I think if I didn't have that, I would maybe struggle a little bit with that. So presumably you can make people tough enough but be empathic at the same time. It's not an either or, is it? Some people think that if you show too much empathy, you'll make the players...
soft or not resilient enough and if you're too hard on them you won't have any empathy but you can strike a balance presumably can you? Yeah I think you have to because I think if we're too empathetic but they go into a first team environment and it's not like that.
then again, it comes back to the whole tactical, technical side. Are we really setting them up for the first team environment? Probably not. So, and also if you think about it, they're still... a developing professional so they have to develop and this is part of their development of understanding actually that you know there's there is right or wrong but in the moments and how we address it and how we say it and the timing of it um so yeah like you said you you have to
you have to get the balance and the moments and obviously working with females as well that can also be a challenge because you know we all have different hormones females and that's that's the thing that we also have to address like um So yeah, you've just got to be really conscious of the whole package, really. Yeah. So Albion fans listening to this, with youth development coaches, the thing they always want to hear is...
We'll be sending five or ten players through to the first team. Don't you worry about it. There's a conveyor belt. I wouldn't ask you to name names, but could you tell listeners to this podcast that they'll be seeing players from your set-up? in the first team over the next three to five years? Oh, for sure. Definitely. I think we've got some really good high potential players.
But like I said, they're like 17, 16, 17 years old and even younger than that, like 14, 13. So yeah, just be patient is probably the one thing I'm going to say. But we've got some unreal players. If we can keep hold of them, amazing.
But like you said, there's always the chance, because we can't contract these players until they're 18 at the moment, that someone could come along and just take them. So we have to be quite... careful and and yeah but I do think we've got some real like gems coming through that like will definitely make it to the first team so
Is this just me or is that different to the boys? I think it's, yeah. So yeah, with the girls currently to get their first pro contract, it's 18, so on their 18th birthday. So, but I do think there's a conversation around how... well around changing it and stuff like that so um but yeah especially when when i suppose if you're fishing in the pond of south london yeah yeah like they have got a lot of options which will be closer to home for them yeah yeah no they're um
Obviously, we are surrounded by other London WSL or Premier League teams that have maybe a bigger budget than us. they can obviously potentially give more. So we just have to make sure that we provide them and give them the most support that they don't want to leave us. I mean, if I would, I'd tie them down, really. But I'm not allowed to do that. Yeah, they can give them more in one respect, but in other respects... Yeah, exactly. And I think we give them the bigger things. Yeah, so...
And that's the thing, if you talk to any players, they will always say like... Whoever's been at this club is probably one of the best clubs I've been at in terms of the whole package, how we're made to be treated and stuff. I think Fran alluded to that. She was quite shocked, wasn't she, when she came? Yeah, yeah. At least you can tell young players here.
Well, you can tell them lots of things, but you can tell them that they're in the right place to develop. 100%. Yeah, 100%. Like, actually, as an individual and as a person, like, we care about you. You won't get that in some clubs. We actually really care about you and we want to invest in you and we want to give you time and everything like that. So Danny, before we let you go, we've just got some quick fire questions for you. Playing or coaching? Playing.
That was quick. That was super quick. You said quick, didn't you? Scoring a goal or making an assist? Making an assist. I need more than that. Well, I was a holding midfielder, so it was quite rare for me to score, but I'd rather... So does that make it more special?
No, I actually really enjoyed setting my teammates up, to be honest. Like, yeah, I didn't score that many goals, and if they were, there normally was a set piece. So, no, it was more the assist for me. I just preferred it. I like that feeling of helping your teammates, really. England debut or club debut? England debut.
pre-match music or pre-match silence definitely music yeah i can't do the silence i don't like it i don't like slow music either like like you need to get hyped yeah like now i'm listening to the girls they listen to love songs before games and i'm thinking what's wrong Big music. You've got to be ready to go, ain't you? Everyone's on individual now, though, aren't they? They've all got their own headphones on and stuff. Healthy snack or cheap meal? Cheap meal. What would that be?
would be a takeaway, probably be an Indian to be fair. Was that you go to after a game? Yeah, normally after a game, yeah. Now where I'm retired, I just have it on a Wednesday night or a Thursday night. So yeah, it would normally be an Indian after a game. I don't even think Indian food's unhealthy. I don't know why anyone thinks it is. People say, oh, I've had a curry. I was a bit naughty last night. I had a curry. But it's a healthy food, isn't it? Don't you think?
Depends how much you have, really, don't you? If you get a bit of a naan bread and a poppadoms and some sides. Yeah, I see. I think traditional Indian food is probably healthy, but our concept. Of Indian food. Which is not really Indian food, yeah. Apparently. Anyway, I'm striking that off as a cheat meal, but you can have it anyway. Danny, thank you. That was good fun. Really good to chat to you. Thanks for joining us. Thank you.
That's it for this week. Thanks for listening through and do share the podcast with like-minded friends because we've got a great lineup of guests to come over the coming weeks and we don't want you to miss out. See you next time. The official Brighton & Hove Albion podcast.