The nick Ki Glaser Podcast.
Glasers, Hello here I am. It's Nicky Glazer. Welcome to the Nicky Glazer Podcast. I'm here in Saint Louis, joined by my mom and studio.
Hi Mom, Hi Nicky.
I'm so glad to have you back, and I know I'm excited you're here for a special reason today. Brian is also here with us from New York. Hi Brian. He's in New York right now for the holiday. But we have a very special guest on the show today, which I'm sure you already know from the description on the podcast. It's one of my favorite comedians of all time, and my mom's like favorite comedian. You're like our your our favorite.
I don't want to say she's my favorite. I would have said it's your favorite.
Kathy Griffin is the is just such an inspiration to I would not be who I am without Kathy Griffin. My mom would not be who she is without Kathy grif so inspiring to us. We've watched her along just for so many years. Now she is embarking on her first tour of America in six years. It's called My Life on the PTSD list. It is a forty city tour. I am definitely traveling to Kansas City to go see it because it's the closest that it's getting to me.
Nice.
I was sad that I couldn't go see you in Vegas. I thought, oh my gosh, this is just a one off thing. I'm so glad you're back on tour. Welcome to the show, Kathy. I'm sorry to keep talking, please, I'm just I'm just so blessed to meet you today.
Oh my god, you're so sweet. Well, I love you, you know that. And Julie, I'm your favor. Just say it. I'm your aunt.
Katley, Okay, you're my favorite, definitely, and you always have been.
But Nikki came into the scene and it was like, what do I do?
No, yeah, Reilly, I prefer you to Nikki. I'm nothing about that.
No, Kathy. Whenever my mom laughs at your material, because we'll watch your stuff together, she always goes, I'm sorry. She's just so funny. She says to say, I'm sorry to go why are you apologizing? And it's always because she thinks I'm getting offended on some level, and I go, I'm.
Not, because she is the queen. My mom did the same thing when I was in the Groundings, the improv group back in the day, I was in the Growndings with Lisa Krudro, who of course went on to be in Friends, and my mom would come to the show and afterwards you would go, oh, Kathleen, that Lisa Kudro just has the if fact maybe I sketch and she get, well, you should keep working, but has everything. It's a path. So I'm used to it. That's what moms do at your job.
Yeah, I mean, don't you think that's a reason why you are the way you are? Though? Is because of that? Just were you always seeking her validation? Were you always trying to get your mom's approval? Is that a yeah?
Look at me, Look at me. I mean, it's just beainiful. I was the youngest of five and you know, a wonderfully dysfunctional family, and my parents enjoyed the drink and so I was just dancing around trying to get their attention. But it was hard to get their attention away from like the high ball mix. Do you guys remember the fornixens where you would put a powder in a drink and stir it, which I could do when I was
like seven. I can make my parents like a high ball Ernold it was powder, and then we had Hanburger Helper, which was more powder. I was raised powder there.
That was the day. That's what they ate.
Yeah, you find that your parents? Did your parents watch a lot of TV? So was that a way for you to go like, Okay, they'll pay attention to me if I get on that as a part of it.
We're totally starstruck, so I want and believe it or not. Until the John Hughes movies started filming in Chicago, you know, like the Breakfast Club and stuff. Yeah, their daily Who was the mayor when I was a kid, I would not sorry the dogs here, he would not filming in Chicago. So my parents were very starstruck and we saw every movie. And there was one theater in our town called the Lake Theater in olk Park, Illinois, and we would go
to every Friday, no matter what the movie was. And I remember one time the movie for a week was the documentary Pumping Iron with Our Wornigger, and we still went. We were like, yep, we're going because movie every Friday. They were super starstruck. And so when I started to become like when I started to get like TV gigs or little arts and movies. I took my parents to every gig I had, and it is to this day
the joy of my career. Like I had a little part on er and I would even wow two lines somehow I would talk the producers into letting my parents come to the set with their folding chairs, and I have pictures of my parents with George Clooney from me are and it was like the episode that Quentin Tarantino directed, So there's a picture of my parents with Quentin Tarantino. Wow.
It was honestly like it was a blast to bring them because they and by the way, they didn't bother anybody, and by the end of the time they would be the darlings of the set and people would see the.
Way it is for me, Great Kathy, I really took a page from that book of yours of bringing my parents to everything that I can, involving them in every way. They've been on pretty much every shoot that I can get them on. I've incorporated them into every kind of TV show and I bring my dad on stage with me. I just love them so much, and I think I do know that they appreciate and value show business. So much that it is something that's it's nice to be
able to. I mean, it's a way to get their attention. I do think that was a thing that I was like, Oh, my parents really like TV people. I mean, I think it's was probably one of the reasons as I got into this, I'm gonna take a little dark turn here. I really fear losing my parents because I was even crying to it about my my therapist yesterday. I was like, I don't know that I will have any reason to keep doing this if i'm not. Because they're the first ones who text me when I'm on TV. They watch
everything I do. They are you know, they maybe don't say every all the right things, but they're so supportive they you know, and maybe sometimes I get a text and I'm like, oh, I don't even I don't even care that they watch that, but they're always But I do care. It's it means so much to me that they're always watching. And I fear that if when they're gone mentally, physically, whatever, that I will have no What's what's making me do this? Because I really think it's nice to make them grow.
Them back, you'll bring them back. I learned this from the Great Don Ripples, the Why Dear de Party Friend, the one Tonnolly Don Ripples, and he would his mom given every show, and he would talk to her and she said, wait, I can't remember what she said in
the front of the back. But then she passed away, and there was a certain period of time when he kind of didn't do anything, and then he would talk about her in a way that was very you know, poetic, and I I still talk about my mom and I act because the people that come to my shows knew my mom and my dad, and they say tip it, which is something my mom would say, because my mom enjoyed a box of wine and when the plastic bag inside the box was getting low, you gotta tip it,
playing tip tip the box and then you use the figot to get the very last drops broken. Live in our car any don food like all that stuff you can still talk about. But I do love talking about your dead mother when she's in the room now, Julie, and I don't want to burst into tears of white therapist, But Julie, what celebrities have like stuck out with you? Did you? Oh?
With through Nicki Blake Shelton, Well, yeah, Blake.
I've met so many Dave Matthews, Blake Shelton.
Way taught me about nick Shelton.
Uh well, Nicky was doing a game show with.
Him, Barmageddon now episode will be in January.
Oh good, good to know.
Anyway, we got to and Nicky's like, do you want to go because Taylor Swift is playing in Nashville also, and you can go with me to that.
And I'm like, I'm so in.
She took me on tour with her to go see Taylor, like four different shows, different cities. Nicky's so generous with me, Kathy, It's anyway, Blake like spent fifteen minutes with me just sitting next to me.
Shelton, but go ahead.
Well he honestly, he didn't cringe when I said Blake.
He's such a nice guy. He's just like I was.
I really didn't even know who he was, to be honest, Like, I know who he is, but I didn't know how cool he was.
No, to be honest, did he.
Just charm the pants off you? Yeah?
He did.
Yeah, he was just really He's like he's talking about how he met Gwen, like he was letting us in on all this kind of like insider info. Yeah, and he had his own green room, but he didn't even use it. He just hung out in ours. And then I thought he was just being nice to me and just like, you know, saying hi to my mom and me and sitting down for a second when we first got there.
Yeah.
But then I got called to set and he just he just stayed with my mom. He just stayed behind and sat with her for fifteen minutes. And it wasn't even like, oh, I'm just going to be a real gentleman now. It was just like he was genuinely interested in her and her story. And you know that that stuff really stands out to you. Gwen.
So FRANI feel about your whole mother trying to take cake.
Well, I don't know. I said, don't tell Gwen.
Mother's a harlot.
I said, I said, don't tell Gwen.
Yeah.
But it was so funny because I went on to I was shooting a show this this summer, and there was some of the same crew from that show, and they kept coming out to me and going, when's your mom coming to set again? We love your mom. I just texted a guy about your mom, like you're people just loved you because you were throwing back a couple you got into the wine on that shoot. Yeah, and you were just being funny and hilarious, and you were
filming me. She was in the crowd shot, which is supposed to be like a drunk honky talk bar of like cool you know, millennials gen z. And my mom's just holding off my filming as I'm doing some these like competitions. I didn't know like we had to cut around your mom filming you the whole time, but it was She's just like a blast everywhere she goes. And she just told me story embarrassed.
You come on, be honest.
Oh, I mean yeah, surely, yeah, for sure. But but that was like in high school, you know, when I was like trying to be cool. I think I heard you say it too about your parents. Is that my my dad is the one who's like intentionally funny and has the jokes, and then my mom is the one that's just born funny and doesn't really know why she's funny, and like she makes everyone laugh everything. She's yeah, mom,
you were. I feel like I'm listening to like a couple of counseling sessions like I do on these podcasts. They always goes, you can tell her, Nikki, you can tell her I love you. Yeah, I mean I've told you this before. You're you're the funniest person I know. But you don't even I've tried to actually imbuse some of your characteristics of the way you talk.
And just those things you need to do a good job.
Well I know, I don't know. Yeah, no I do, but you just you are just funny the way you are, and so it's uh and that to me. I don't know about you, Kathy, but I feel like I've always tried to be funny or it's been like you know, I think I have some of that natural ability, but it's more for me. I think I'm I'm more of like my dad's version. But as I get older, I'm trying to relax and be like, oh wait, there is a natural funny part of me that I've been kind of almost fighting by trying so hard.
No, I love that though I love both of those kinds of people. I'm so lucky to have those like arch types of people with my parents because my dad, honestly, he could have been a comic, like he was really funny. I mean, it's the kind of humor of that I have, which you know, sometimes it serves me well and sometimes it hasn't. But like I remember, when I was a little kid, we had this like really close family friend. He was almost like an uncle, and he redid their
wreck room. Remember wreck rooms, Julie, of course, since sort of, but we called a wreck room, right he So mister Gillian was his name. So mister Gillian finishes the wreck room and he did it all himself. And it's Sunday and we'd gone to church, and I remember my dad's holding my hand. I'm a little kid, and my dad walks in he goes, what a ship box funniest? And my mother was appalled of Gillian laughed because he knew
my dad was kidding. But I captured that quality of like being able to be not mean, like we're talking about Wrickles, like believe it. Rickles was wounded when he when people thought he was mean. And I never understood how you could think Wrickles or Joel Rivers were mean because they were so clearly nay, I'm like letting you in on the joke, but their world was this no
Bs world. And yet my dad did kind of need my mom to be a legit person that was legit appalled and everything you said, Yeah, no, she was giggling too, right. I love that, like balance of my mom was a character. She didn't know why she was funny. My dad could like tell a joke, I'm cue so China and you had that Nikki where you can marry those two things, but you can be funny. I'm que like that.
It's you know, when I let go. You know, I think when I'm trying, when I'm obsessed about what I'm going to say and trying to be the funniest, I'm I'm somewhere in between.
You know.
When I go on talk shows, I want prepared material. I want to know exactly the beats I'm gonna hit. I want to make sure I have funny jokes. And then there's there is a part though, of letting go. You know, I didn't come up doing improv or sketch, so I don't have that. I've always just done stand ups, so it's always been like, I know what I'm gonna say when I'm good up there. I don't really do crowd work. I'm kind of nervous about letting myself just
go and letting the funny find itself. But as I get older, I think I'm I'm just learning to like myself more and just trust that whatever I am is unique and it's fine and that's what makes me special. But it takes so many years to fucking start.
Would you like the great of you? And that's what makes you successful? Because a mix that just try to write material are almost recite material. It has to come from me, your point of view. What is the shit you think it's funny? Sorry, I don't know if I'm law to curse on here? Yeah?
Please?
Okay the shit you think is funny? But by the way, can we talk about crowd work? Okay? Yes, Nikki, I don't do this trend? Like if this is the new trend, I'm sorry. Like I look, I get crowd work, and I admire people and I do have me too, and
that's great. But I actually feel philosophically that if you buy a ticket to you know, for my life on the PTSD tour, you can just relax, like I you know what I mean, Like I want the audience to know I'm gonna do all the work this past two hours where you just have to sit in your seat Also, you play theaters like I do, that's a very different animal.
You can't do crowd work with someone in row one because then the thousand people behind them or more if you're lucky, twenty five hundred people or whatever, they can't hear that person.
They have no you know, Sebastian Manscalko, because he relies on a part of his set to do CrowdWork. He will have a camera filming that person and then it shows up on the screen, so he's he's orchestrated in a way that it can make sense for the whole theater. But you're absolutely right. It's I know that when I go to shows, or when I was a person that was before I did stand up, I was terrified of being singled out or being called on, and I think
that most people have that. There are some people that you know are dying to be roasted or you know, be involved in the show, but those people are not really interested in entertaining. I just that's not I actually give a speech before my show that says like, if you have seen my roast before and you're here thinking that's what's gonna happen tonight, it's not. If you're a girl who is brought by one of those guys, like I can't wait for her to tear us to stress.
I'm not gonna talk about you can get up to go to the bathroom, and I'm not gonna be the one to go, like, look at this lady going to take a shit, Like I tell them, please go to the bathroom, Like I want you to have no anxiety.
Just laugh.
If you have a weird laugh, let it go like loudly, and I'm not gonna address it. I'm not gonna you can just relax because I I just know that's the kind of experience I want. And I like that you say that, because yeah, it's it's it's become this trend. And I agree with you. I think it is a talent in its own rife, right, but it's really not right.
It has to be in clubs are like like, yeah, he's got to have like a JumboTron and stuff. And look that's what I do when I was in the Groundlings, And that's great. And when you go to the Groundlings, which is a comedy troupe in La or Second City in Chicago, the whole audience knows when they enter they are going to be asked to make suggestions. But you know what's funny, Nicky, is I also have people that think I'm a roaster, but I'm not really a classic roaster.
And you and I have both done roasts, yeah, and it's honestly, it's not my comfort zone. And I'll either sort of roasty type of zingers in my stuff, but it's not the Comedy Central roast of Charlie Sheen roast of David Fop. That's like a assignment. And I just feel like what you and I do is this is our time to have however much time to do, you know, but to let it fly, let the stuff that we think is funny out during this relatable I say a
thing because I tend to go really long. On my last tour, which was over five years ago, I did some shows that were over three hours because oh my god, I actually did every show like it was my last show. And then on my last show, it fucking was my last show. Yeah, and then the phone didn't ring, Nikki for five years. I did this successful tour of my career. I got like freaking Sapore and the Sydney Opera House in Carnegie Hall and Radio City and I thought okay,
now I'm over the Trump photo. People are okay, and they weren't. And five long years I've been not fair yang and trying to get I've pitched talk shows and game shows and scripted shows at unscripted shows, and it's just been like this toxicity all from that Trump photo. And it's crazy because I feel like this tour came together.
I'm not kidding. Three weeks ago. I finally got a call from an agent, like six weeks ago, and then I'm a agent and a manager, and then they routed this tour and so I got forty cities and it's just mind blowing because it's it's awesome. It's almost like America is finally forgiven me, which is a very odd thing to like go through.
You know, it's gotta be because you must have just thought this is never gonna lift. They're never gonna forgive me. First of all, they don't even they don't even care to listen to what was really going on with that photo and why it happened. All they want to know is is they think that I was actually making a threat against his life. They don't have any interest in hearing me explain myself and flylist. I couldn't I know, and you were, you were under investigation for months, Yeah
you were. I mean, I can't. I can't believe what you went through. Being canceled in that vicious of a way is something that so few people understand, and and I've I've researched it a bit, like I just it's people. Really, people wanted, people want you to die. People just people want you to lose everything. People really, it must have felt so horrible, especially Kathy as you know, someone who people don't understand that comedians are desperate for love, you know,
and acceptance. That's why we're doing this. And even if you're a comedian that says crazy things or controversial things like you said about Rickles, you know, quote unquote mean things, at the core of it is this, this desperate need of acceptance in love, and so for that, for the opposite of that to happen, I don't, I don't know. I can't imagine what you went through. I'm so glad that it's feeling like it's finally lifted, and I can't wait to see how well this tour does.
Like a mandatory minimum sentence, you got five years for a photo when there's other people we did much worse things and got one year.
And you know, like when people talk about being canceled, first of all, let's be honest, A lot of the people that were canceled were dudes. They were like whipping their dicks out and robbing them against girls. And yes, somebody on a set who's like a hot cost denier. Like I took a photo that was you're in the same boat, a protest photo. In my opinion, some people thought it was a joke. You can interpret however you want.
But to be investigated by two agencies within the Department of Justice and have the White House like serious, oh oh about charging me the conspiracy assassiny at the President of United States.
Oh my god. It was just so intense, insane and it's ridiculous.
It's no wonder you have on.
And people just can't get over it, Like it was the craziest thing. Like I did the Stephen Colbert Show one time, and I'm a giant fan of his. I love the Colbert rapport in particular. Yeah, and I went on and he was so tough on me. The com minute the interview was over, I went in the wings and I freaking burst into tears. It was so embarrassing. And the producer came over to me and he said, I'll never forget. He goes, he just couldn't get beyond the picture.
Oh God, give me a break.
Because it was brutal, and he goes, I'm gonna give you a beautiful edit. And it was one of those shows where they did they did a Thursday show, it would run Friday and fine. But like, but people that came at me, it wasn't just the right wing, it was left right and said, you can't.
You know what, can't anyone just like understand that sometimes you make a fucking mistake and that you make you just we've all been caught up in a moment. I mean, people can't relate to photo shoots and the ideas that get thrown out and the things that you do, like I've I've had water dumped on me with like a white T shirt with my nipples hanging out, Like I've done like kind of partially nude photographs when I didn't even want to because a guy in my kitchen was like,
I have a cool idea. It's it can't anyone grasp that sometimes and that and you and you know it boils down to you pressing post on your Instagram. Your life was over. You just hit a button. You'd hit your phone with your thumb, and your life was fucking over, that's what you're saying.
Thing. I was doing it because I was in between well in between gates. I was out of work, and one of the things that I do, and you're like this as a self starter, is I thought, you know what I'll do. I had the of course, the photographer. I had no fallout, you know, typical, but I had worked with him before and I foolishly trusted him. But you know, I thought, why don't I take a bunch of wacky pictures? And I took one where like I was spoofing Kim Kardashian, like I took like five wacky
pictures that day. And that Trump picture took ten minutes. It was the last one of the day, and I had a Halloween mask and you know, off Trump and whatever. But I really thought, this picture will live on my Instagram for a day, or maybe it'll be on a gay blog and that'll be Yeah.
Like I didn't well that you weren't trying to fire up anyone. You weren't trying to make it. It was we got to go to break. But I let's just talk about all this when we get back. I really want to talk about the name of your tour, why you chose that name, and like what what you've You've gone through and you've been through so much more than just this in the last six years. We'll be back with more Kathy Griffin after this. Okay, we're back. Kathy
Griffin is here. She is back on tour forty city tour. And I like that you said that. I watched an Instagram live of yours recently. These are secondary cities, so these are these aren't the big the big cities. These are like you know, you took your agent made a plan for you, ry Town.
New York, oh mah Red Bank, New Jersey, Napa, California, like yes, cities, and I sold, I'm this go around. I'm not doing like La New York, Minneapolis, Chicago.
I have to Nikki, I take it the temperature, yeah.
But I also have to earn my way back, like my dream has to play Carnegie Hall again.
You played it five times, thanks already five times.
Just me, no open or nothing. And you've never met anyone who loves standing on that stage more than I do. I am I know, Garland, I'm sorry, you know all the I you know. I have to earn my way back to Carnegie. I hope to play the Chicago Theater again. I hope to play the Kodak in LA. But I don't know, you guys, I'm scared.
I know. It's all It's one hundred going to happen. This is your redempt people. Whether or not people have forgiven you. Everyone who has a head on their shoulders and and and has been a fan of yours in the past is back on boards always. Yes, I can't.
I was for you to come back, and I want to ask your advice. So okay, So Julie, you're a super fan of buy and obviously you know I'm all a humble legend, all right.
That's what I love about you.
That's I'm just humble. The thing that I think really just hurts, but I want to have figure out a way to work around it. Is what hurts the most is all the people that think about that Tren photo, but they'd forgotten. They did like Kathy griff and my life on the g List, They did like my specials they did, like, you know whatever, And I still like that photo took away my entire body.
Unfair. I just can't even believe how unfair.
Oh, I'm the same person exactly.
But and I guarantee you anyone who's seen you in concert and anyone who knows you, all your fans will be there.
They're coming back. These are other people that cancel.
And the people that aren't gonna come back have a brain disorder. I mean that's what they have, a mental illness, which we all know about. And it's like anything to do with that guy. They can't open their heart to any kind of reasoning or just they can't use simple logic.
But I really do think that the pressure you'll get from this and the stories that will come out of it, the different appearances you'll make, You're gonna start being in their face again a lot more, and people are just gonna fall in love with you all over again because you're so fucking funny. I'm so excited to hear this material. You were even just one of the most prolific. You
are probably the most prolific comedian we have. You know, I always say I'm so grateful that I'm a because she is just so prolific and she's constantly putting out stuff. And you know, if you're a fan of Rihanna, you've been waiting for an album for like two decades and it sucks. But you know when you're a fan of Kathy Griffin. I was looking at your special spread of
like twenty specials that you've put out. Yeah, you would shoot sometimes three specials in a year, Like it would be like, you know, thirteen months and there would be three specials. I'm sure you've been over this before. How do you generate material? What is your writing process? I just saw an instagram of you actually just typing away of like how are you getting ready for tour? And it's just you feverishly typing. Is that your process in front of a laptop?
Not really? In fact, I'm just old school bullet points, like yeah, yeah, same, it's so ridiculous. It still bring a notebook on stage with me. I don't really look at it, but it's like a security bank too. Yeah, it's like bullets. And then I'm off and running and I'm lucky if I get to all of them at the end of the two hours.
But you remember all of the punchlines just because you just I have the same thing. Like once you says something that's funny and gets a laugh, Yeah, it just imprints in your head. Yeah, and it's there.
Yeah. Remember I'm from the groundlings, Like I wasn't actings first, and I went about it as my mom would say, ass backwards, where I was honest InCom and then I did my first special. I didn't do my first special till I was thirty six, so I will be in the CD till I was thirty six. So I'm a lady.
You look so fucking good too. It's insane.
Yeah, I mean, I're the improvisational nature and oh yeah, there's some dish that don't I'm gonna try and please we'll let me say. But like, I'm kind of bitter because I've never been on that show with Jerry Seinfeld Comedians and cars. Yeah, because wait, Jerry doesn't think I'm like a real comic because I improvise everything.
And no, but you don't. But Kathy, you don't, like you're not you're not filming specials improvising. I bet you anything. I can watch your specials. I know that maybe you got to the jokes by improvising. But when you take a special maybe one or two or three lines improvise that night. Yeah, but you have memorized the material like anyone else does. You're just not there with a notebook
writing out jokes long form. That doesn't that's interesting. I do feel like that there is a there is a difference between the way the comics that sit at the laptop and memorize their jokes and write them out and then recite them over and over. Look at comics like us who have just kind of worked it out on stage. But there's no difference. You're you have memorized to come up with material just like they have.
There's also a room for everybody, And so I like one of the I can't even imagine having feelings about a comic the way people like turned on me, Like it's so shocking to me to this day that people have these such strong feelings, because I think, if there's a comic I don't particularly like, I just maybe don't like them, but I want a mission to ruin that.
You know, and well, that's not the people that loved you, Kathy. These are people who love somebody else. And he's despicable, I know.
But sorry.
They they will stand behind him. It doesn't matter what you did. If you said something bad against him, they're gonna dislike you.
There's something that something resonates with me with what you're saying, Kathy is like and it pains me to hear it from you, because you're just someone who I look at as like so strong and just like the funniest person alive. And to hear this, like, why are they still mad at me? Why don't they they like me? People who don't like you don't fucking get it. Like if someone is not a fan of yours, I'm just like I don't. I don't want to be on your list of favorite comedians.
I don't want to have anything to do with you. Because if you get, if you understand good comedy, which I so. I have bad self esteem in almost every part of my life, but I I know what's funny and who's the funniest. If you don't think Kathy Griffin is funny, you're not smart, you're not good, You're not you don't have a good barometer of stand up comedy. And I don't respect your opinion. It's just the way it is, but I do. I think it's so fair
to say. But here's the thing that is, don't care about people, wonder about people like me and people like you, Kathy, that that say things on stage that we know are gonna are controversial, The same thing as your dad saying, well this place it is like shit, what a ship box. Yes, we say things like that and then they go, well, then why do you get upset when people don't like you? Clearly you're saying things that are going to alienate people. I struggle with that again. I was talking to my
therapists with about it yesterday. I'm shooting a special December sixteenth, and I'm struggling with with thank you. I'm struggling with, you know, making material that's going to make me super likable and relatable and it's going to bring everyone in and it's not going to alienate anyone. And then at the same time I want to I know, but but don't you struggle with those two as well? Like I want everyone to like me, but also I want to be myself and have my opinions and have my point
of view. How do you square those two?
Because at the end of the day, you still have to be the businesswoman who's selling tickets, and so what I'm trying to work on is I kind of let go of the notion of trying to broaden my fan base because we've all become so siloed that I'm never like. It does make me sad, but I'm never going to get those Trumpers back. And there are certain regions. I mean, Nikki, I used to play everywhere. I played every southern market
you can imagine. I played the riverboat casinos, I played the performing arts centers, and look, let's face it, some of those markets they may never forgive me. I mean, when you're talking deep deep, deep trunk country, you know.
What did you do? I don't really know what you did.
I think I can't go there, see, although I am going to Plexington, Kentucky, and I'm selling pretty well there, which is shocking. Yeah, I can also try to be the beacon of like for the gays and the ladies and the peace. I'm like, just don't want They're just not down with that, and that's what I would want. Like if I lived in Trump Country and I couldn't help, but I had to live there, I would absolutely go see a comic. Mean, the town that was just gonna
have an opposing view. And by the way, let me just say believe it or not. In my new show, I actually don't mention Trump once, and it's not quite scared or anything. He just kind of doesn't come up. And I really are talking about all this PTSD stuff, and I think it's relatable. But like you said, yes, I'm mindful of I think the PTSD stuff is funny. But what I'm finding really rewarding is people relate to it with everything we've been through with COVID, which, by
the way, not our most shining moment. We didn't exactly deal well with COVID, lost our freaking minds, but we haven't recovered and recovered. And you know, I had lung cancer, so my voice is like a little bit more high pitched. And so I talked about that, and I say to the audience, clap if you've been affected in any way by cancer, Well almost everyone claps, and I go clap. If you've been affected, you know, in any way by losing a friend, somebody in your Facebook group, a co worker,
to maga or QAnon, almost everybody claps. So then I'm like, Okay, I can talk about this stuff. You know, I don't know, it's super super personal. I didn't think i'd ever be talking. I didn't think I could have PTSD.
I thought, yeah, tell me about that, because I've heard you speak on it. But how did it show up for you? And and and what did you think it was at first? How did you get diagnosed? What's what are your symptoms?
Well? I was okay. So after I got cancer, I had my surgery and they took half of my left lue out, and so I have.
One and a half long snikki, Oh my god, I have What are you feeling from that? Is it just is it hard to bring? Is that what affected your voice?
Yes, so during the surgery, I was injured and my level is permanently paralleled from the two. So what's weird is that when I had cancer, I had no symptoms, and now that I'm cancer free, I sound like I'm sick and I, oh my god, and so and.
It's just an injury from the surgery. In thought, yes, right.
And so you know I have to say right up top, like why my voice is more high pitched, and then I go into like making fun of the audience for having two lungs and how I'm bitter de lunged community and how I can see their ripe cage is expanding and it makes me bitter. So yeah, you know it is you tried to throwing anything and try to make it. Yeah. And the PTSD for me was for about ten months. This is the darkest period of my whole life. For ten months after my cancer surgery, and I just wasn't
getting better. I could not stop vomiting. And let me tell you, that lays you out, like you can't do anything. You're dehydrated all the time. I was going to the emergency room for IVY infusions constantly, and then I was I had shrinks and my oncologists, every doctor said you have PTSD, and I just wrote it off. I was like, I'm from Chicago, we don't get PTSD. I just thought that that's.
It's for people who come back from war, Like that's what you just assumed.
Right, right, right. But I think honestly, the combination of like the Trump scandal, all the threats against me the whole, like people confronting me in the street, which happened a lot, it still happened this day, showing up at the house Trump people and stuff, and not having really a place to go, although I will say the FBI was very helpful and I kind of credit them for saving my life because they would come to my house when there was what's called a credible threat sometimes, like they came
to my house multiple times to say, day, there's a person who's very serious about attacking you. And I just got used to it. In fact, I did a movie which nobody distributed but I'm proud of it called Kathy Griffin to Hell a Story, and it's a concert movie with some documentary footage, and the day of filming the comedy special part, the FBI unannounced came over and they were like, there's a threat. You know, somebody's gonna try to kill you. Do you have a show coming up?
And I said yes, tonight. You know, so that's just a mind fuck. And then I think, you know, getting cancer and then having it alter my voice. I felt like I lost my voice as an artist during the Trump thing, and then I literally lost my voice. So now I'm just trying to get out there and tell people like I sound a little mini mouse, but I'm okay, I'm not in pain. And then I talk about all the craziest shit I do to just try to stay normal like Kundalini yoga, which I don't even know what
that is, but I would. And I yelled, shit, and I fucking have oils that I'm afraid of because I'm afraid of the essential oil people because in the mid scheme and I'm afraid of them. Don't tell them. I said that, it's just all this stuff that I never thought. Oh, it didn't get this. I became addicted to prescription pills during the Trump myself, and then I even talk up.
With the pills. You tried to kill yourself with the pills.
I took like a hundred ben zones. You guys, the worst part about trying to kill yourself is when you fucking wake up.
I was like, oh, oh, you can't even do that right.
My first words were, you are fucking kidding me?
Like those Remember did you write a note?
Like?
Was what was ed to that moment? You wrote a note?
Because I was so messed up on pills. I'm so oh, I'm in. But I was so messed up on pills that I was convinced my husband's life would be better. Like I felt like I've had a good run. I've accomplished a lot of cool shit, it's time for me to go. But it's because my mind was so messed up with the pills. So I even make fun of AA and my act because nothing is more fun than an AA meeting when was a drunk. Oh laugh, But
I fucking love it. Yes, for all of it, And like I said, I hope it's relatable, and like you said, yes, I want people to laugh, and I want to make people laugh and I want to take them out of whatever they're going through for a couple of hours. It's like pretty simple.
Yeah, it's and it's you're just trying. I mean, at least I feel when the stuff I talk about, I'm just trying to I'm not trying to offend anyone. Really, that's it. And I think it gets misconstrued. Is that so often? But I'm just I don't like things not being talked about that are like open secrets. Yes, and I think that the only way you know, it's an
AA term, But if it's mentionable, it's manageable. And so when I have an entire bit about molestation or rape or you know, I have tons of different things that people will go you can't you can't touch that, don't your suicide. Yeah, And people say you can't say that, and I always go, well, you know, there's always an
excuse for like doing like you know a bit. You're like, well, I can talk about this because my brother is this, And I'm like, I can talk about suicide because I am gonna do it someday, you know, I always I'm a future victim of it. So I think I can. But I think, you know, you got to talk about these things because they if we if we don't talk about them, then the people then people keep struggling with them alone, and it might make some people feel awkward
and what the hell are we doing? I just I'm not interested in talking about things that are not I want to talk about things that are on the surface that everyone I want to talk about porn. It's so weird porn. No one talks about porn yet everyone's kind of you're not everyone, but many people are watching it, and it's it gets you know, they have more view
you views on YouTube. Then David went after dentists like, yeah, it's everyone's watching it, but no one's talking about these are the things that interest me, and and I think it sometimes just gets seen the wrong way of like, oh, you love saying the thing that's gonna upset everyone. It's like, that's the last thing I want is the one to be upset. I just think it's interesting to talk about
things that no one else is. And I gotta just credit you for your bravery of I have like a bit I'm working on about a celebrity that I'm just like, man, if this person's like camp comes after me, like I I could lose. You know, people don't notice about the business, but the.
Fan armies, oh my god, the fan armies.
Fan armies. But also like they're publicists. Their publicists can say, well, you know what she said this about her on a show, so we're never gonna do Jimmy Kimmel if you let that girl do Jimmy Kimmel because of what she said. So they can start kind of blacklisting you from things if they're famous enough. But also their fan armies. What do you hold back ever with the celebrity stuff? Has it? Has there ever been a bit that you did say that you go, oh, man, I really regret doing that.
Have you you know? I'm sure but you get asked this all the time. But the run ins you have the book I have the book on my shelf, The A to Z Celebrity Encounters, which is incredible and has informed so much of how I look at certain celebrities. Now, Oh, I think so much.
Book aren't even talking to me now, Like I look at that book and I'm like, I wrote a freaking love letter for this person. They should send me some goddam flowers. But now I love celebrity runnings because look, we all see celebrities, and we're all interested in people that are in the forefront, whether it's a political figure or a Kardashian. And I love lifting that veil because the veil is there. And now you've got celebrities that
are like influencers, and that's a whole other game. And I get such a kick out of running into these people because there's like the legit people of talent that I'm just fascinated by, and they are the people that are famous for being famous. But yes, you know, I've been blacklisted by everybody. I've had everybody pissed off of me. I've been confronted by everybody, and I just have to laugh because like I have, like Demi Lovado's fans come
after me. Those are some pissed off cutters. And I was tweeting one night and I had done like a double in Seattle, and it was just, you know, you can't sleep. So I was like, okay, I go on Twitter and this is like before Twitter was X and I'm like, okay, I'll take questions. And somebody wrote, Who's like the biggest douchebag celebrity.
You've ever met?
And I wrote Debbie Levada because the tree But Debbie, I go to bed.
It's so much better than writing down.
My phone is like blown up. And you know what my feeling if you look at your phone and there's way too many texts?
Yeah, way, oh and you know someone's died or you get that feeling that's right, You're like, who died?
Okay? So the I call them the Debbie Army. The Debbie Army was livid. And then Debbie herself hosted a picture that she took what that I didn't know she took rhyme in the background and it was at I Hurt Radio and I was introducing somebody and then I went to watch Rihanna and Demi Levado took a picture of like herself going like like but with me in the back rolly pointing to me like, eh so when she then the army way it was on, say it was kill time and I'm sitting there like, I mean,
my fifties kids. I don't know. I don't, we don't. I didn't have a fanner. I liked Carly Simon. I don't even know what you're talking.
Yeah, yeah, No, As a SWIFTYE I understand the iron that can come out of those kinds of communities and I don't take part in and that kind of uh that that part of the fan base. But you're walking a minefield now, and it's only increased with social media. So when you first started talking about you know, Barbi Straisan with the did you know that bitch pint in my wife?
What? Yeah?
That story and stuff like, there wasn't these like social media like storms that could start happening and turn everyone against you. I want to go to break, but then I want to come back, and I want to hear your justification for that answer of Debbie Levado. I want to get back. Okay, we're back with Kathy Griffin. Okay, why, when asked about the most unpleasant encounter you had with a celebrity, did you say, Debbie Levado.
All right, I just get a kick out of Debbie, because first of all, she was livid that I called her Debbie and said, and I just think that's funny. I've been called Kathy Lee Griffin. I've been called Kathy Griffiths. I've been called my career. I don't give it. That is not my problem in life. But she just seems to lack a sense of humor about herself. And that
is my favorite kind of celebrity. I'm sorry for most of them, right, So I don't make fun of like somebody who's a really funny on a sitcom or somebody who's like a SNL because they're a funny person. But I really get a kick out of, especially young celebrities that are wildly famous, incredibly rich, beyond privileged, beautiful, lauded, and yet every time I would run into Debbie, she just was like a sour puss. Oh after this whole thing happened, we were both at the tonight show. I
was the first guest. She was the singer, right.
Whoa after this happened, Yes, Oh my god, what did you think when you realized she was gonna be the did you try to get rebooked. I would be so scared.
I was terrified of her army. And so I saw her in the hall and I said, right her in the hall, he buy me. And I was like, okay. So if you remember on the tonight show, Jay Leno would walk you over and you would watch the band Yes standing feet away from her kind of dancing a little. And she had a new hit single. I don't remember what it was like, yeah, the summer or whatever. And so afterwards Jay says, let's walk over. He doesn't know
anything about me and Debbie. So I walk over. They just heard her and I said, congratulations on your new signal, and she just gave me like the stink eye, and I just I was like Debbie military in.
My hacked, like like just giving me.
Yes. Had to do was giggle or say hey, that whole thing was silly, or hey, we're both professionals, but I can't help. But I still get a kick out of the youngs. And often it's the youngs that are living in the dream, but they're.
Feeling yes, yes, the lack of sense of humor about themselves that's and that's what I that's who I feel. I'm kind of going after j Lo in my next set, just for just some hypocrisy I see happening, which I see, you know, you see it everywhere with every celebrity. But I'm just you know, my goal is I, if I get as send in fame, is to dispel all the bullshit that I grew up like worshiping celebrities about Like I think that's the new job of the celebrity, is
to like stop. Of course we're on a pedestal for our talent, sure, put us up there, but all the other bullshit, the beauty, the lighting, the everything that makes us look so unattainable and makes you at home feel like shit, Like, yeah, I'm tired of it, and I want more. I just want more transparency from celebrities. I guess I'm I don't. But you know, my boyfriend who's producing my special is kind of like, are you ready
to like go after her so hard? And I'm like, you know what I'll do is I'll amp up how I actually feel, which is she's so stunning. I'll just compliment the fuck out of her in a very genuine way. But I have to actually say the truth of how I feel, too, Like I can't I gotta balance it
out somehow. Like that's how I'm feeling like I because you know, people could go after me about things and I'd feel like sad if someone spend a lot of time in their comedy special like taking something down that I was kind of shitty about, and you know, and I'm willing to forgive her too or like you know, but I also makes the difference if it's true.
And let me tell you something. Yeah, she's rough, man, She's fucking rough trade.
I've heard of some stories.
I've done everything from I hosted the Billboard Awards one year when she was singing and I'm saying that in your quotes and I saw her like one time I got to go to a Kardashian Christmas party, which that alone was a dream. And of course they have like a photo booth with like perfect lighting and everybody looks
twelve years old. And so he was with a Rod at the time, and so I go, Jaylo, take come on, let's take one picture together where you're like giving me the stink guy because I've given you shit on stage. And I go, see if a Rod will do it with me, and she goes, it's Alex. His name Alex.
Oh my god, I was.
Like, I came up to her and I said, give me the stink guy in the picture, like I'm handing it to her on a silver platter to go, I'm willing to be the jester and you're beautiful, successful gazillionaire j Lo and I'm actually saying give it to me, like I yes, that's a funny picture for both all of us, right, But all she kept saying was it's Alex. Because I photoed bo the picture of them to Core and she legit was pissed.
Oh I'm sure, but I'm just like, what what in two seconds.
Later they got But I just I couldn't figure out why she was such like a malcontent. But I am fascinated by that.
Just that's the fascination. Why are you such a bitch? Like why are these people so why do they treat people horribly? Like I guess I'll go more your freaking way, I know, And yet you're because I guess it just seems to happen with with fame with people. And I know you've you've encountered this countless times, more way more than I have. Of just people who are the most famous, had the most gifted, uh, just genetics and then you know, just just landed to them on silver platter their whole life.
And yet they're they're so mean people. You know, you hear stories about people working with them on set and how they're just a nightmare to work with, and it's like, why and how is this person still working when there's such a count like you get canceled for a picture.
But then a person who treats everyone and doesn't let them look at them on set is mean to everyone, holds up production four hours because you know, their their tea was cold or whatever, oh their eyelash extensions weren't the right ones or whatever, and holds up a million dollar production. They get to keep working.
Why why why can't they just figure out that all they have to do is laugh at themselves, That's all they have to do. Like why Brookshields. I was going to show with her for four years and I always say she changed my life because I went from not working to being on an NBC sitcom back in the day when it was like musty TV. So she doesn't care for me because I put a story about her in one of my specials, even though she came to see me Lie one time and I told the story
and she was like, oh, that was really funny. Don't forget to put this part in what wait? Wait?
Story was it?
It was about her wedding?
Yes, I remember, Okay, yeah, mom who was.
A famous alcoholic. But I wan great with her mom because I I, you know, how to be around. Can I talk to a drawn like milk? I can see the fun part in her mom was. You know, I'm not saying she was the best mom, but she was
smart and clever and clever. And so it makes me sad because I have such warm feelings for Brookshields and we worked together every day for four years and she's Brooks Shields, like the books, beautiful, celebrated, she did comedy, she did drama, she did Broadway, and we were like close, and I just go, that's her choice.
You know, how did you apologize? I mean, was there an interaction between you two where you said.
She kind of she kind of like, okay, the story, But what pissed her off is broke is Howard Stern mentioned it one time when I was on Howard and she has an shoe with Howard. Even though I kept saying, brook if you go on Howard Stern one time. Oh my god, she will your ass. He will fuck love with you and then you'll become a regular. Yeah. So but I think she maybe has that like pretty girl thing where she kind of just didn't want to get there. Yeah, I just I don't know.
I that's a bummer. I know you seemed like a really good friend.
Yeah, and so I it makes me sad when people don't take the joke but also carry it on for like years and years.
Yeah. Well, final thought. I mean, there are some people we can talk about the people that have been unpleasant, but some people have been extremely kind to you, even throughout your cancelation. Yeah. And I heard you mentioned Kimmel never blacklisted you seth Meyers Stern.
Howard, Yeah, I mean Jammie Kimmel had me on because my voice is to be even more high pitched. I had like five surgeries on it. God, I went on there when.
I was literally talking like this.
Oh yeah, and he had me on and he when I got kicked off Twitter personally but by Elon Musk because Eloni, Oh yeah, that's right, because I what I did was I changed my username's hilarious you did and the night before the midterms, I was tweeting, you know, I've talked to the mothers of my children and I am now pro choice both no matter who ash heighten hers and so people thought it was really Elon and he got mad and he had a fit and he kicked me off, and then Jimmy called and he said,
we wrote a sketch where you're playing Elon Musk and amazing. So yeah, when does it get the joke? I'm so freaking grateful, Like you have no idea. It just means the world when people just roll was it?
And the can I ask you going back to your voice thing? So you come out of you came out of lung cancer surgery, Yeah, just thinking, okay, I just went through all of that and then you talk for the first time and you just go, what the fuck? Like was that they didn't intend to damage your vocal cord. That was a thing that happened right.
In fact, the guy the surgeon was like, well, I know what you do for a living, and we need you to be out there doing your comedy and we'll be careful. And it just happened and it's permanent. And so I've had to live with that and I just asked the audience to kind of go with it. But I can't really do impressions the same. And you know, it's weird because as a comic, so much of what we do you have to really project. Like I don't want to say I'm a yelling comic, but I'm yelling
and cursing is my love language. It's you. I'm telling you what you did wrong is how I love you. And so I did my first double evoke because I was afraid my voice couldn't do it.
Oh, I was gonna say Jesus.
Double on a gay cruise? NICKI, NICKI, have you done a gay cruise yet? No?
And I'm honestly, I'm trying to pivot to like what get more gay gay? Like, I'm trying to just well pivot to gay audiences, like I want, I want your audience.
So this is a bucket list. You have not lived until you've done a gay cruise. Let those boys are serious, Julie. I know you think you've done partying in your lifetime.
Yeah, but you don't drink, Kathy, Like, I don't know if I can keep up with the drinking and the part the like, how do you keep up with it all on those because you can't escape. It's everywhere.
No I know, but it's a comic. I get to observe and it's Nober and watch these boys and like they have parties and they're all theme parties, like one is called guns and Hoses and it's for a policemen and firefighters, even though nobody really is a copper firefighter.
But they.
Breaking bad theme parties because they love Walter White and Jesse Pingman because come to ends gaze and enjoy meth and I know that's shockache and they just lose their minds for like seven days. And I usually am on the cruise for like two days, but I want to do a double. So at least I was like, all right, and now I have to use the like Madonna had said, my great, but I love it.
It's that's so you, though, man, because you should have been using those for years. You're so physical and like I want to see you walk around like I love you with a mic and I love your mic work, honestly, Like I've kind of I've definitely even watching myself. Sometimes I'm like, oh, you've definitely learned some things from Kathy, But that seems to be like that would have freed you up. That's that's a nice little thing that happened out of this voice thing. No, I love it.
I love it. And the first time I had it was at the Marage, because you know, casinos they're almost like TV studios. They have everything. Yeah, I'm gonna buy one now and take it down to town. Yes, I don't expect these theaters to like have it. But I don't even remember the name of it. But it's really helpful. And yeah, for the first time, I have the freedom of my hands, and I love that. I'm pretty physical, Like I make fun of all the exercises I do for PTSD and get down on all fours and do
this thing. Do you know what this is? Cat cow?
No, Brian, you know about it?
What kind of is archer back? You're you're on all fours like a dog arch, you're back yew and then.
When you go and when you tip your head up, you move like a cow. Now, Julie, I don't know what the hell this does to make me feel better. Stop wabbiting and curious time of my freaking wife. So if I have to meow and moo, I'll do I'll do whatever it takes. I'll get spade, I'll take and I so I get to get down on all fours and do my meal.
MoU well, your voice really does. It's improved so much. I had vocal cord surgery a year ago because I had nodules. And I don't know. Did you go to doctors?
I tells no, I usually know to doctor Sugarman.
Okay, And I know I think we've worked with Do you work with Amy Chapman on.
Vote is fantastic?
She worked with me on the Masked Singer and she she told me that she loves you so much, and I was so excited to have the same voice teachers.
Yeah, she doesn't. She like literally massages.
Oh it's the best. She does a larynx massage. That's so good. But yeah, you sound amazing, Kathy, I think, and.
I'm kind of so conscious about it.
It's no, it's it really it's it doesn't sound like you're in pain. As long as you established that up front for people that might worry about it. Yeah, there, there's it. Honestly, it's it's it's not. It's not it's not noticeable. Really, forget about it. It's at first you go, oh, she sounds different, but it's no, it's nothing to be self conscious about it. I hope you I hope you accept that, all right. Yeah.
If you hadn't mentioned it, I.
Would not have Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm so excited to see you on tour though. I'm really gonna make an effort to drive across Missouri. I'm in Saint Louis to come see you in Kansas City. I cannot wait to see you. I can't wait for this tour. Everyone has to go and buy tickets to this. Kathy is just one of the most original, most inspirational, most funniest people ever. Her live shows are insane. They're
sometimes three hours long. It's an experience, man. So you got to go see her on My Life on the PTSD tour and you can get those tickets at Kathy Griffin dot com and they're available right now. Go check all the tour dates. There's forty of them. Read her books, watch her specials, she has twenty of them. Immerse yourself in all Things Kathy if you haven't already. She's one of my favorites and always will be. I'm so honored that you did the podcast. Thank you so much. Kathy.
I just love you so much. You call me anytime, you know where to find me.
Thank you, Kathy. That means the world.
Julie, I love you, I miss you.
Oh God, I love you too, Kathy. All right, maybe I'll come with Nikki.
You got where you gotta.
Go, You're sure. Thank you, Julie, you just get all right, all right, all right.
I love it.
You have a special relationship. I love you. I appreciate it.
Bye, Kathy, thank you so much.
Bye.