It's a strategy that essentially positions your brand and the story that you have to share, the right way. And by doing that, it allows you to connect with media, the right people the right way in order to amplify your message. That's the very basic thing. In order to get that press coverage that will help amplify your message, raise brand awareness, help you build your reputation, and hopefully increase sales as well for entrepreneurs that you know are service or product based.
This is The MindShift Podcast where we share real stories, real strategies, that will help you find real success. This is the place to hear from people just like you who have taken their ideas, goals and dreams from a point of inspiration to realization or when life knocked them down, from a point of breakdown to breakthrough. I'm your host, Darrell Evans. Let's get started with today's episode.
Hey, my friend. Welcome back to another episode of The MindShift Podcast, the place where every week you get a chance to sit down with one of my thought leaders and shift your mind so you can shift your results around a topic that will impact your business or your life. And today is no different. Today I have Lilian Sue with me. She's a PR coach and she goes beyond the work of what a traditional publicist does and focuses on empowering entrepreneurs, not just get
press results. She chose to buck the industry standard and provide a more personalized support and service because she saw that it was lacking in the industry and creative entrepreneurs like you and me, needed that kind of support. Now through her strategic coaching program and her brand new self-paced hybrid PR course, The Attraction Blueprint, she empowers creative entrepreneurs to gain the confidence and learn how to develop their own
successful PR campaigns. Lilian, welcome to The MindShift Podcast.
Hey, Darrell, thanks for having me.
It's gonna be fun. This is a topic that you and I talked offline, I am intrigued by. I've been around the marketing space for a long time, better than 20 years. And PR, I'm a rookie at PR, I'm a novice at PR. So I'm intrigued by the topic. And I want to start before we dive into the nitty gritty and really unpack some of the expertise that is PR and in your point of view, tell everybody a little bit about yourself, where you're from, what you do and how you got here.
Sure. I am a PR coach and publicist. I'm based out of Vancouver, Canada, born and raised here. I started doing PR about eight years ago now because I had originally started doing copywriting and social media and I had a lot of clients coming to me and asking me, do you offer that service? And I got tired of telling these people, no! So I said, okay, you know, let's try this out. Let's go do some internship, go get
some knowledge into PR. And the more I started doing campaigns for people, doing everything from putting together their media kit to actually helping them schedule interviews and everything. And I had a lot of fun with it. But then I also started to notice that there were folks saying, like, I would love to do a campaign, but I can't afford it. Or things like, I would love to, you know, I tried out a PR course but you know, I got stuck halfway, and I didn't have anyone to help me.
So I had to abandon the course because I wasn't going anywhere with it. And I started thinking, you know, I had such a wealth of knowledge in all my years of doing these campaigns for people. And a lot of times when you are the one that's doing that work, a lot of the clients come in with their expectations are out of whack compared to their budgets, or their expectations are out of whack compared to what their experience levels with PR
actually are. And it's very much a learning curve within that relationship to kind of get both parties on the same page. So I was thinking to myself, given that I've been coached by all these great creative entrepreneurs who keep telling me they'd love to learn more about PR, they'd love to do a campaign, but they can't afford it. What are the other ways that I can show up for my clients and continue to provide value that fits into what their business
needs are? So I started thinking and working with a business coach myself. How about looking
at coaching? How about looking at courses and looking at really providing that personalized support piece that a lot of people have told me that they are missing oftentimes, because there's also been other entrepreneurs who have gone through PR campaigns, come out the other side and said to me, I didn't get the result I wanted because they never asked for my input and I didn't feel right speaking up for myself, because I believed that they were the expert, they knew what they were
doing, and I should just keep quiet. So in coming across so many people telling me these things I said, you know, I think it would be really beneficial for me to focus really on educating people, and empowering them through that education, because it stays with you, you know. Once you learn these things, nobody can take that away from you. And I've really modeled my business off the proverb of, you know, you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime.
Yeah.
And I really do believe that that's true, because there's so many misconceptions that entrepreneurs have going into PR campaigns of things that they should or shouldn't be doing. They shouldn't speak up, or that, you know, I need to do this because it legitimizes my brand without really focusing on what their goals are, so there's so many things that I think I really set out to educate people on so that they have that knowledge.
Yeah.
They're empowered by it, they have that competence, so that whether they take on managing their own PR strategies, or they work with an agency down the road . . .
Yeah.
. . . you're in a much better place to speak up, if it's not going the way you want it to go and go, "wait a minute, I would feel more comfortable if we focused on this area", rather than just blindly allowing someone else to lead you.
Yeah, I love the educational focus of your work and let's go from the basic to the advanced, and I want to tackle a lot of stuff here in a short period of time. Just in your words, what is a PR campaign? I mean, we know what the words are - public relations, but what is a PR campaign?
It's a strategy that essentially positions your brand, and the story that you have to share, the right way, and by doing that, it allows you to connect with media, the right people, the right way in order to amplify your message. That's the very basic thing. In order to get that press coverage that will help amplify your message, raise brand awareness, help you build your reputation, and hopefully increase sales as well for entrepreneurs that you know, are service or product based.
So when is it a good idea for an entrepreneur or a company to do PR campaigns?
This is actually a two part answer. And I'll tell you why. First of all, when it comes to really positioning yourself and your brand, a lot of the entrepreneurs I work with are creative entrepreneurs so they're authors. And they're much more comfortable having what they write stand on its own two merits. And I've been asked, Why do I have to dig into my past? Why do I have to share my process in order to get people
to relate to me? And I say to them, when you are presenting your book, launching a project, launching a new product, whatever it is, people don't just buy into what it is that you're launching, they also want to get to know you, they want to know more about your background, what inspired you to do this? You know, how do you want people to see and experience your knowledge and your experiences
radiating this. And that is the part that I think people struggle with the most because it forces you to go introspective. You're really trying to figure out, how do I want to position myself and this is the portion that I think a lot of people don't spend enough time thinking about until they
have something to launch. So when you're talking about the first portion of a PR campaign, when you're thinking about that, figuring out your positioning, and figuring out the story that you want to tell or that you feel comfortable telling, is the part that's going to take the most time. Building a media kit, in terms of how you want to be represented visually, and on, you know, through audio as well. That's the part that takes the
most time. That's the part that you should be thinking about ahead of time prior to launching something. And then when you are getting close to launch, then the secondary part of the campaign comes in where you're starting to think about, where do I want this story to go? Who do I want to get this story in front of?
Right.
And how am I going to do the research?
Gotcha.
. . . to get this story in front of the right people. So really, it's a two part thing where it's really the positioning strategy and the psychology and the brand of how you want to be seen. The storytelling portion of it is something that I think you can start thinking about at any time. It's only that when you get closer to launch, that, that's when you need to do the research of, okay, where do I want this story to go? Who do I want it to get in front of?
Right.
And I say that because that secondary part, who you want to get the story in front of, that could be subject to change?
Yeah.
Right. People move jobs all the time. So you don't want to be setting that list of people you want to contact, set it in stone, and then recognize a month out, oh, half these people have changed jobs.
Exactly. Talk to me a little bit about, how do you measure the success of a PR campaign, right? You know, in my world of running a digital marketing agency, we're always driving metrics. Metrics, metric metrics, and my clients get pitched a lot by what I call, you know, media companies, traditional media companies that are selling impressions. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm saying, I don't
understand. Tell me a little bit about, from your perspective, how do you measure the success of a PR campaign?
Well, campaign results are definitely influenced by what your goals are. Right? When it comes to where you want that graphic to go. And a lot of what also influences the success of the campaign. It's not just that you got that interview. Right? It's, are people actually aware that you got that interview? That's the portion, I find, surprisingly, a lot of entrepreneurs actually miss out on.
Yeah, they don't promote the very thing that they work so hard to get.
Exactly! I've had people say to me, I haven't you know, gotten results from that, like, I didn't gain more sales. And I have always asked them, who's promoting it? And I get dead silence.
Yeah, that wasn't their job. Their job wasn't to promote you.
And that's just it. Like, I believe that, you know, the real power of PR comes from consistency. Are you consistently getting that interview or getting that review or whatever that piece of press coverage is, in front of the right people on social media, through email, through your website, to help drive traffic to the places that you want it to go? Right.
Right.
And some of that, it may not necessarily translate to sales right away. But if you're getting more questions, if you're getting more newsletter signups, these are all helping you to raise brand awareness, build a larger audience. Because the power of PR Darrell, I find that makes it really unique, is that it is the best way to get in front of unbiased third party supporters in the media without having to pay for it. And that's how you know, it's unbiased.
Because these are people who have no association with you. You're not related to them. You're not paying them for anything, but they see your project, and they get engaged with your story. They get attached to it. And they believe that your story and your project is something that their audiences need to hear.
Yeah, yeah. And I definitely want to get into some nuts and bolts here. I know that you spend a lot of time educating, telling people about the myths and things of that nature but, how big of an audience do you need? You know, I, when I think about PR, and I think about the movies, for example, like you know, I'm a big movie person, I love watching. So the studio's they shoot these big blockbuster films, but it's not the film itself, it's the promo tour that they do leading into the release
of that film. When we talk about PR for creative entrepreneurs, that kind of thing, are we really talking about similar activities? And maybe not exactly to scale? But can you compare and contrast that sort of promo activity versus PR in your perspective.
Basically, the biggest difference, and this is one of the reasons why a lot of people think when they need those types of campaigns and those promotional tours that you need to spend 30, 40, you know, $500,000 in order to get that kind of exposure. What I tell entrepreneurs is that there's no set criteria that you have to climb, or that you have to qualify for, in order to make PR work for you. The difference in a campaign one entrepreneur does versus the big moviehouse really
is scale. There is nothing that says that an entrepreneur cannot position themselves properly so that they can also go out on tour, do workshops, you know, present at conferences, do signings, do live online events. It's just on a smaller scale, because everyone has to start out on a smaller scale. These are the things that you don't necessarily see with the big stars, because we didn't know their reputations before they got big, before they became high
profile. Prior to that, just like you and I, they were also running the small tours, you know, doing the local circuits where they were, you know, just touring local venues. They were doing, you know, at least in today's day and age, some people are doing a lot of online events.
Yeah.
So it's really not a question of, Do I have a large enough audience to qualify for it? It's more about can I position myself properly to attract the attention from the right people? You, there's no set of criteria that you need to meet in order to qualify for it. It's just about . . .
Yeah.
. . . can I position my story the right way?
Yeah, you're basically saying, look, start where you are, you can't get to the promised land until you just start with the land that you're in right now, right? You got to start small, start where you are. One of my mentors, he says, a lot of times we don't start because we're afraid to be seen starting small. Like, everybody wants the pinnacle of the fanfare but start where you are, do what you can with what you have. So that's a great perspective. Where does an
entrepreneur begin to start? I mean, this is really something I want to know. Because I don't think about PR ever. Like, I think about it in the, like, I talked to you before the show, the three to eight times I think it's come across with my clients, and it's not to say that they have never done it, it's just doesn't cross my path. How should an entrepreneur begin to think about PR as a part with intention? Let's talk about it that way. How do we think about
PR with intention? And I know as you say, not because of your ego. Right? But as a strategic planning process? Can you talk to that a little bit?
I think it always comes back to your story positioning, and also your goal planning. When it comes to any strategic plan that, that you know, that you build for marketing, what are your goals? Three months, six months to a year out.
Right.
What are you currently doing in terms of marketing tactics, to try and reach those goals? What's kind of been the results or the response from the current tactics that you're using? And ultimately, are you getting to those goals that you want to achieve within that timeframe doing what it is that you're
doing? If the question is no, and you want to expand, you want to do more, and that's when you start to look at, how can I build a diversified strategy with PR as part of it, to amplify my reach to achieve those goals. And again, because there's so many things that you could do, digital advertising, your website, email marketing, social media, all of these things are coming directly from you, they're coming directly from your brand. You know, they're, they're coming from the
horse's mouth, so to speak. So everybody knows that if you, right, you are sharing your own content, you are marketing yourself, PR has the distinction of being a reputation builder, in the sense that you are getting that push. Your content is being pushed. You are being pushed by these people who have platforms. Platforms in TV, radio, print, online, podcasts, who believe in your messaging, who believe in your mission, who believe in your story of what
you're doing. And they have not only just a higher profile, but a larger, targeted audience that you're able to reach in, in an authentic and genuine way. And why is it authentic and genuine? Because you're not paying for it.
Right.
You're not paying for it. The audience recognizes that how you fit into that particular platform, larger content strategy, and it becomes a brand awareness builder. It becomes an audience builder. People are attracted to you because they've seen you featured somewhere, and they buy into the message that you've been sharing on that media platform.
Yeah, Lilian, I've got to ask this question just because I've seen this stuff for a number of years now. And it's just to the point of there's a distinction between you being invited on to talk about something in a particular medium, whether that's audio, video, or written, you know, journalists collaborate and want expert opinions all the time.
But there is this other side of the street here that I have seen related to buying media placements and buying PR and buying, you know, give somebody 300 or 500 bucks and they do this one piece of thing for you, we'll call it a written piece. And then they distribute it through aggregators to all of these quote, unquote, networks. And it shows up on their websites for a day or two or three and somehow gets buried. Is that PR to you? What is that? Because I see this stuff in my
newsfeed on Instagram. I see it on Facebook. And a lot of people don't realize that a lot of people pay to be, quote, unquote, featured. And so I'm struggling with that because I've seen that a lot. People have pitched me on doing that for years. And I just turned it down. I don't need my name on your website, if I've got to pay you five grand for the, you know what I mean? I get it. There's a advertising versus marketing, talk to me about your opinion about that part of the industry,
The bulk of what I do, Darrell and what I coach clients to do is getting earned media. So the organic, reaching out to media, building that relationship and being featured because they want your story on there. They want your expertise on there. This other side with paid media is still a part of PR. It's not something that I tend to focus on unless my clients have the budget, and they believe it aligns with their values and with their
brand. I will say that I find it much more authentic if you had to, to incorporate sponsored ads, and things like podcast sponsorships, into your strategy, because those things are transparent.
Yeah. And I think that that speaks to where I was going, right. I'm not negative about paid media versus earned media. I think you just brought the distinction home, right? There is a distinction between earned media and paid media. I'm a paid media guy. I told you all, I've built my business as a direct response copywriter, running ads, that is my jam, that's what I do. It's what I do
best. But where would someone want to go if they want to dig a little bit more into PR, and say, I want PR to be a part of my plan? And we're talking about earned media, not the paid media side? Where does someone start?
I would say you could always book a discovery call with me, you know, because I'm always here to answer anyone's question. My doors always open, you know, even if they have any questions about, What is this? How do I get started? How can it line up?
And by all means, we're gonna let people know where they can find you and link up. But you have some practical tips about how to reach out to newsletters, how to reach out to media outlets, can you share a couple of those ideas?
I would say do your research, you know. The framework that I always tell people if they are looking to reach out to media platforms, stick with your genre first. And this is easier with authors and people that I deal with because a lot of them are fiction authors. So looking at sticking with your, your genre for that. Then look at local. Who's your city or states region, newspaper, podcasts, radio stations that have supported people in your line of work?
After that go global, go online, see who has, you know, a larger network. And as you build towards those, one of the reasons why I want always suggest people start with genre, a lot of these platforms are smaller. This is going to be where you know, you can cut your teeth with learning how to get in touch with these people.
Yeah.
And for folks that, who have no experience doing interviews, this is also a great way for them to, you know, get comfortable, learn how the process works, really figure out, you know, what it is that you need to do to prepare, and continue to learn and build from
that. And one of the biggest reasons why I've always said, you know, as much as you think doing the talk show circuit is going to lead to bigger and better things for you, you can't just expect to grab their attention if you have no experience.
Right.
You have no experience, you have no knowledge, so building up to that by focusing on okay, who's in my genre in my industry? Who's local that has supported people like me that I might be able to get in touch with? And also, going mobile, going online afterwards to see who's supported people in your industry is a really great way to kind of build that up and build up that track record and that experience, because everyone has to start somewhere.
And you can't expect to get, attract that attention if you don't have experience, you don't have that track record and you don't even have a clear idea of why you're connecting with them to begin with.
Yeah. So you've got a lot of free resources available, and a lot of ways to get started, because you've got, you know, you've got your educational program, your consulting services, everything like that. Where would you have someone go next? If they want to dig a little deeper into this world of PR with you, from your perspective, where would you have them go?
I actually have a page on my website that says, "Start here" that basically outlines, you know, you're stuck on specific things, and you need personalized support. Try this. If you're looking for someone, you know, more of that expert experience and knowledge and expertise to guide you along thing, you're probably looking for a campaign. So let's set up
a call here. I've also got, you know, free guides, like, mindset guides to help people kind of wrap their heads around what PR is, what some of the things they fear and believe are, why they believe those things and sort of how to move forward with changing that mindset through education.
Gotcha. And what's your website so everybody can find you?
My website is www.InRetrospectWritingServices.com. And that's all one word.
Yeah. We'll link that up in the show notes and be sure to head over to Lilian's website. Tell us really quick, what got you drawn to writing and being a publicist and copywriting, what was it?
I'd actually started out being a creative writer, and I wanted to write my own novels for a reason before and this was pre self-publishing. And I thought, you know, while I'm working on that as my own hobby, how about I take a stab at helping other people tell their stories.
Right.
And that was kind of what started me on that journey.
That's awesome. Well, you know, I love talking to industry experts and people that are really just, they've honed in their expertise, their craft. And of course, you've got years of experience on this. We want everyone to head up to Lillian's website. Also, she's got a social media profile, and on her Instagram, I mean, literally, you can spend hours on her Instagram feed, and just take in so much more that we weren't able to cover today on this show. But Lilian, let me
ask you this last question. And that is, if for whatever reason today happened to be your last day on this planet that we love, what would you want everyone to remember you for?
I would want people to remember me for my tenacity in empowering people to fulfill their fullest potential.
Oh, wow, that's beautiful, that's beautiful. Lilian Sue, thank you for being here on The MindShift Podcast and for those of you listening, be sure to head over to our show notes, which you'll see linked up somewhere around this audio, this video, wherever you're listening. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of The MindShift Podcast. I'm your host Darrell Evans, and I'll see you again next time.
Hey my friend, thanks again for listening to today's episode of The MindShift Podcast. Listen, let's not have the conversation in here. Connect with me on social @MrDarrellEvans on almost all the platforms, with the exception of Facebook. My Facebook fanpage is @DarrellEvansFan. Until next week, remember you're just one shift away from the breakthrough you're looking for.