In 2012, and the topic of the day was transformation. And I said to them, Oh, so you want me to talk about all the digital transformation that's been going on in entertainment. They said, you can talk about whatever you want. And I thought, Well, it's interesting because I've been tracking what's happened since the 2008 2009 recession for baby boomers people over 50, generally, and how challenging it was for people to recover
their career fortitude. And I realized that having been tossed around a lot in Hollywood gave me something to talk about here in terms of how to help people recover from setbacks, because I talked about this in the TEDx. Over the course of my Hollywood career, I was fired 39% of the time.
This is the mind shift podcast where we share real stories, real strategies that will help you find real success. This is the place to hear from people just like you who have taken their ideas, goals and dreams from a point of inspiration to realization or when life knock them down from a point of breakdown to breakthrough. I'm your host Darrell Evans. Let's get started with today's episode.
Hey, my friend, how you doing? Welcome to the mind shift podcast where every week on this show, our goal is to help you shift your mind so you can shift your results in your business and your life. If you've not done So, already, hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening to the show, so that you never miss an episode. And after you enjoy today's show, DM me on Instagram at Mr. Darrell Evans, and let me know your biggest mind shift
from today's show. Listen, if this is your first time here, my name is Darrell Evans. I'm a serial entrepreneur who started his first business at the age of 20. I've now gone on to build several successful businesses across the seven figure mark. And through my digital marketing agency, we've now helped clients generate over nine figures in revenue over the last 11 years. While the journey from inspiration to realization is
fun to talk about. It's actually when life knocked me down that I learned some of my biggest success lessons here at mind shift we call those breakdowns. Now it's those breakdowns that led me to develop a framework called the mind shift method. It's a four step framework I use anytime I get stuck. I need to overcome a major life challenge or a business challenge. Or if I want to pursue a new career path
or desire of any kind. You know, I use this when I was sleeping on my grandmother's couch, living out of two duffel bags of clothes. When I was starting one of my first successful businesses, I used it when I faced the reality that I'd have to figure out how to be a good father to my two boys at the time, who were living 1075 miles away from me. I used it when my business collapsed in 2008. And I had to file bankruptcy and I lost everything and I had to
start over again. It wasn't until 2020 when something else happened. And someone asked me, How do you do it? How do you remain so calm through adversity? How do you keep a positive outlook when facing what would take most other people out? And what I didn't realize at that time was I've been using this framework unconsciously for like the last two decades. That conversation though led me to break down this four step framework, and I share it with all of the members of
the mind shift community. The mind shift community is my free coaching community where you can gather with us every single month for free, live masterclass. You also get access to me for monthly Q and A's and you even get exclusive discounts on merge programs and events not available to the general public. The best part is, it's 100% free to join in another tab really quick, go to mind shift community.com that's mind shift community.com to join for free, and I'll see you inside the community.
John Tarnoff is an executive and career transition coach, speaker and author who supports mid and late career professionals in defining planning and achieving more meaningful and sustainable careers. Fired 39% of the time during his 35 years as a film producer, studio executive and tech entrepreneur, he learned how to turn setbacks into successes in a volatile
business. He reinvented his own career at 50, earning a master's degree in counseling psychology to share his career lessons with others going through similar challenges. Since leaving entertainment in 2010. John has coached individuals groups and led career workshops for University Alumni including UCLA Anderson School of Management, corporate coaching clients that have included Bank of America, Bridgewater associates, Levi
Strauss and others. He's also the best selling author of Boomer reinvention, how to create your dream career over 50. Look, let's get one thing clear. If you're over 50 and you're listening to this episode right now, maybe you feel stuck. in your career, not sure what to do next, while you're in the right place, John's going to talk about how to unpack those things that you know, that are your assets. So you can catapult yourself into your next dream opportunity. John, how you
doing, sir? Welcome to The MindShift Podcast.
It's great to be here. Darrell, thanks for inviting me on.
Really excited to have you got a really great topic to talk about today. All things, transition career population called baby boomers. And so it's gonna be really, really fun. And for those that are listening, who are not baby boomers, let me tell you through my research in to John's background and the work that he's doing, don't think that if you're a millennial, this doesn't apply to you don't think that if you are a Gen X or like myself, that this doesn't apply to you don't think that you're
in the wrong place. Stick around. Because the conversation around starting and stopping and pivoting and failing, applies no matter what age you are. John, I'm super excited to have you here. Where are you joining us from?
I am in Los Angeles.
Awesome. Well, we're just up the street from each other. It's a little toasty over here for us today. But you got a little warmth over there, too, right?
Same thing. Yep.
Listen, let's dive John. Tell everyone a little bit about your background, your backstory and kind of what's gotten you here today. And we'll dive into the gritty
Thanks, first of all, again, for having me on. And I just want to echo something that you were saying about the generational appeal of this message. And while I started out focused on my own cohort, what I have found over the 10 years that I've been doing this is that these lessons and skills apply across the
board. And at a time when careers and career management, career development is becoming much more important to everybody in every generation in every industry, this message and this practice is resonating across generations. So I welcome everyone of all ages to the call. I'm a big believer in the multi generational workforce and how we can all mentor and support one another across
generations. So I come to this in a very unconventional way, I am not your typical career coach, I do not come out of HR, I love the people who work in HR, I think they do a great job. They care a lot about the work that they do, and the people that they work with and for, but I come out of the trenches. And I come out of the trenches in a very, very challenging, volatile business, which is filmed entertainment. And I started out wanting to be a filmmaker and a
film producer. And I kind of hit the ground running in Los Angeles in the Hollywood industry, you know, 35, 40 years ago, and had a great run. But what goes along with the UPS is the doubts. And so I did a TEDx talk in 2012. And the topic of the day was transformation. And I said to them, Oh, so you want me to talk about all the digital transformation that's been going on in entertainment. And they said, you can talk about
whatever you want. And I thought, Well, it's interesting, because I've been tracking what's happened since the 2008 2009 recession, for baby boomers people over 50, generally, and how challenging it was for people to recover their career fortitude. And I realized that having been tossed around a lot in Hollywood gave me something to talk about here in terms of how to help people recover from setbacks, because I talked about this in the TEDx over the course of my Hollywood career, I was
fired 39% of the time. And that always gets a laugh because no one talks about this like this, right? You don't brag about the fact that you got fired a lot. Because in our traditional conventional mindset, getting fired is shameful. You know, you never want to lose a job. And then you got to go out and and kind of hadn't had go apply to
new jobs. And we know how completely depressing that process can be being rejected from interviews and having to make connections and people you know, spend six seconds reading your resume. So my whole point about being fired 39% of the time is that getting fired, it's not shameful. It's not fatal. And then in a world that's moving so fast, it's just about fit. And you need to find your best fit. And the opportunity that you have to find a new job
is not something shameful. It's not a hole you have to dig out from under it is an opportunity to find something better for you this more resonant where you're working with a better team, a better manager doing better work.
Oh my gosh, what a way to open this show. It's not fail. It's a better opportunity to find the right fit. John, I can't tell you man I I talked about those three characters and that make up the word fit more More often than you know, and you and I, this is our first time meeting, I tell people all the time, it doesn't matter unless it fits. And fit for me means it's not just good for your, what I call your superstar DNA, which is your natural ability, but it also has
to feel good. Otherwise, you're going to run yourself through the routine that we all kind of call the treadmill routine, right? I want to ask the question 30 ish years or so in the media in the film business, and in the heart of LA, right, which is arguably one of the
toughest places to crack in. If you can take me back to before we get into where we're at career wise, with the baby boomers, and I love the four talk about the three stages of careers that I love the breakdown of those, we'll get to that in just a moment. But can you take me back to you said something offline, it was just an interesting comment. And and we're gonna focus this on baby
boomers. But you said, a lot of challenges start with people not knowing how to start, take me into a little bit of that perspective. And you can bring that forward to the boomer. But I really loved the idea because I actually have a video that's on Instagram dated couple three years ago, and I just said, just start, we judge the start way too much, I'd love your take on this issue of not knowing how to start?
Look, we have this problem as human beings, across everything that we do from jumping into a swimming pool, right to applying for a job to asking someone out on a date, starting is the toughest thing, right? It is making that commitment. And it is diving into the unknown. And when you think about the way psychology works, and the multiple levels of our brains, you know, we're fight or flight creatures
basically. So that's the first thing that that happens to us is, you know, am I going to get killed eaten, you know, if I do this. So that's what we're dealing with. And it is a very elemental part of us, it's very hard for the conscious mind to cognitively lay out all of the reasons why we should start, because there is so much innate resistance to change to getting out of our current status, I won't even call it a comfort zone, I might even call it a
discomfort zone. Because so much of the time, what we think of as the comfort zone is just the status quo. And the status quo is habitual, we know what to expect, even if it's lousy, right? Even if we have a terrible job with a terrible boss, we're not going to quit that job. Because, oh, I could be going from the frying pan into the fire. So that's what we're up against. There's a lot of really interesting neuroscience around the process of what's called
neuroplasticity. And this idea that we actually can change our minds on a physical level. And we grew up most of us with this idea that oh, you know, you once you've grown up, your brain is set, and you add information into it. But it's said it's not changing. And that's not true.
What they found out is that you can change the neural pathways, and the way that information and ideas and feelings are conducted around your brain and around your body, through the process of what we now know as habit building, which is really repetition. And if you read a book like atomic habits by James clear, which is one of the most more recent, and I think one of the most compelling examples of neuroplasticity in action, you can start to make those changes.
So you have to condition yourself to be open to making changes. And that is to start small, you have to begin with actions that are what a behaviorist friend of mine calls too small to fail. Remember, the banks that were too big to fail? Well, you've got to figure out an action that you're going to do every day, it's going to be a positive habit that you're going to try that's too small to fail. You just have to do it. It's so
ridiculously easy. And so deceptively inconsequential, that you're just going to do it. Right. So example of this, by the way, we do this all the time, all of us, we brush our teeth every day, I would say 99% of everyone that we know, maybe 100% brushes their teeth at least once a day. So what I would recommend to you as it just as a way of demonstrating to yourself that you can make a change in your life. The night before, put a glass of water in
your bathroom. And when you get up in the morning, you drink that glass of water. And you do that every day. Because hydration is important you lose hydration when you're sleeping. So top it up. When you get to the bathroom in the morning. That small app It is a gateway experience, to changing your career around, believe it or not, something as simple as that is going to give you the sense
of possibility. And if you are fired from a job, you're in a job that you hate, you're feeling completely unrecognized, unappreciated. You know, the work is piling up, you're working seven days a week, for people who don't care about you. You need at least one little glimmer of hope that you can push back. And I'll stop here, because I'm going on too long.
I love it, though. It's such a great point.
And we'll talk about some homework. I'll talk about more specifics. But I want you to have a go with this.
Yeah, no, change is not this monumental thing. It's really I see it all the time. It's like to get anywhere you want to go in life, it is actually a very mundane process, right? Hey, make a decision. First of all, make peace, that you want to go somewhere else make peace with the fact that you get fired, right? Just make peace with it. It doesn't mean you like it, just make peace with it. Number two, make a decision that you're going to do
something new. And in this case, you're saying the new something isn't a big deal. It's just like put put a glass of water. If you don't do it, put a glass of water. The next thing is you got to make a plan, right, which is what you're going to talk about, right? And then you got to make it happen, right? It's really four steps. So what I call the mind shift method. And if we just make it too big, you know, I remember one of the first exercises in change and being able to address and adapt to
change. It was such a simple lesson very similar to the water example. It was jack Canfield actually described this and said, The first way to accept change is just go flip your toilet paper right over? In other words, if you typically have the paper coming over the top, yep, just go change the role and make it come from underneath and let that sit with you for 30 days, and you'll find your resistance in toilet paper. Of all things, right?
Yeah.
I love the point we're gonna unpack this framework as we go.
Yeah, an accumulation of small tasks. You know, I think he said something interesting about getting fired, which is to accept it. This is very difficult to do when you're blaming yourself, on some level for that event, right? I did something wrong. I should have seen this coming. You know, whatever it is that you're saying to yourself as you're walking out of the building with your box of desk stuff, right? And you're doing that kind of perp walk out the building?
Yes.
And we all do this, right? People often say to me, Oh, you got fired 39% of the time? Does it get any easier? And the answer is no. It does not get any easier. You have those same fight or flight responses every time I have that happens. But I now know what to do. I didn't know this the first time fired. I've had to learn this over time. Yeah, and part of that recovery process. So yes, you do have to be able to
move on. And if only to be able to say, I feel really lousy about this, I feel lousy about myself, I'm going to make a really supreme mental effort to ignore that set of feelings for the moment, put them on hold, make an agreement with my inner self, to just hold those feelings in advance. And think about the next step.
Yeah.
And the next step is not to revise your resume. Although you should do that. It's not to go out and look for job postings, which is fine to do. But that real next step for you is to go inside and to be reflective. And I would say start with a list. Lists are great. We love lists, right? And the lists are the pros and the cons of that job that you just left. start evaluating what was great about it. What was terrible about it. And I will introduce my favorite F word
here, which is fun. Did you have fun in that job? Right? Did you have fun in that job? If you didn't have fun in that job? What would have made that job fun? What would have what would you have changed? Yeah, to make that job fun. So that's your exercise right there. The pros, cons and the fun. And that's where you start.
I love that, you know, you talked earlier. And it's this self talk conversation that starts immediately when something in life alters our current state, right, which again to your fight or flight, the way we're wired, the minute our current, comfortable state gets altered in any way, shape, or form, especially if it's involuntary altering, right, if we decide to go to the gym, lose 50 pounds, we chose to alter the
state. But if we get fired, for example, in an involuntary way, because things have shifted, I want to go back to 2008 2009 when the recession hit, and dive a little deeper into your thoughts there. It's It's interesting how we begin to tell ourselves a story of a whole bunch of things that didn't actually occur that aren't actually true. And then we latch on to those beliefs you are harping on. And I think it is easy for us to say, What did I do wrong? What mistakes Did I
make? Why didn't I see coming? It is such a true realization, I think, and I can think about my own life when things haven't gone well, right, though I've been an entrepreneur for the better part of 30 years. So I don't have the experience being fired, I have had the experience of losing businesses. And it's the same conversation failure is failure it is. And when you decide whether the pivot in the mortgage industry, I own a mortgage company at the time of
Oh, 809. So at that time, I felt that a large part of it was involuntary. And I made a bunch of reasons, right reasons or excuses as to what the industry was doing to me. And then I had to step back and say, Okay, this may just be a good point to pivot in terms of my career, right? Let's define the three career stages that you call
them. Can you define for our audience, the three stages that you discuss and envision, as you're looking at someone throughout their career, let's break those down really fast.
Right. There are a number of touch points along the way. But I think kind of the key points of the framework for me start with value proposition, message, and network. So if you think about the flow, what you want to be able to do is define what it is that you do, what's the usefulness that you provide in the work that you do? What's that value that you can narrow down? And then how do you message that? How do you talk
about that? How can you describe this in a way that is authentic, persuasive, enthusiastic, and communicate to others? What exactly the value is that you provide?
Quick question, what do you say to the person when they're doing the exercise, and you're trying to get these three pieces down? And they are really struggling? To find the value that they knew they had the day before the letdown? Right? If they were confident in who they were? And now they're in this world where they've been doing this self talk? What do you say to the person who is struggling to find the value in
what they did? Because they've associated it to the thing, or the place, or the company that they use to do it in and from someone who's been fired 39% of the time, right? I'd love your take on that as it relates to that point of those three, those three pillars, right?
Sure. Well, it's about reframing. It really is about, again, another mental exercise, and being able to understand that there are two ways of looking at any incident, right, there's a positive and a negative way. And as humans, our tendency is to look at the negative and just look at the media world that we have around us. negativity sells, right, we are drawn to it. So this also
happens inside ourselves. And one of the biggest statements that I hear from clients getting going is, oh, I'm a terrible networker. I hate selling myself. So number one, you're affirming something which is not true. Right? I'm a terrible networker based on what? Based on your fear of it based on your discomfort going to an event? Why do you think you're a
terrible networker? A reframed way of looking at that would be to say, I am usually uncomfortable in large groups situations, where I don't know how to talk effectively and introduce myself to people, right? That's a step away from I'm a terrible networker.
Yeah, softer, though.
It still recognizes the fact that you have an issue. But now you're kind of breaking it down into components that you can look at and say, Well, how can I get around that? How can I change that discomfort? What can I do to feel more comfortable? In that situation? Are there any skills that I could learn to help me introduce myself to people? Or are there any subjects that I like to talk about, that I can prepare? So that when I'm in that situation, I feel more comfortable talking
about? So there's a way of progressing yourself through this. But if you stop at the limiting belief, and you allow the limiting belief to govern your behavior, you're in trouble.
The work you've pivoted into, if I'm not mistaken, started around the time of the last recession. 2008 - 2009?
It started before.
Started before.
So I'll tell you my pivot story quickly, which is that in the 90s, I discovered the world of technology and multimedia. And I was always an early adopter in the 80s. I had a Mac back in 1984. When they launched I thought this is the greatest thing you know, insane. Great as Steve Jobs always said, and I started using this in film development production, and people walk into my office and say, what's that? Is that one of those macintoshes? And I would say, Yeah, they would say, Well,
what do you do on it? And it was an early adopter era. So in the 90s, I started playing video games. And I thought, Oh, my God, this is insane. And this is yet another opportunity to tell stories. Long story short, I got involved with a guy who is a game designer, and we came up with this idea for an interactive, artificially intelligent character. It was basically Siri with a face. So this was like an animated character that had the
artificial intelligence. And this is very early on, and we started a company, we raised money in the bubble, raised bunches of millions of dollars, had a warehouse full of developers and artists in Venice, California, 5060 people. And then we ran all the way up, we had some big clients, we were working with sprint, and Progressive Insurance. And we were doing customer service bots for their websites 2001, the NASDAQ collapse, the whole bubble collapsed, and we
collapsed. And from this kind of greatly funded operation, now kind of inventing the future, we were back down to this little apartment in Venice, that my partner then you know, lived at, with a couple of computers, a couple of people coming in and out. And it was all over who's gone. And I thought, I got to figure something out. Because I'm not going back to the movie business to those jobs that I was doing before. I'm about to turn 50. They're not interested
in me anymore. I've been gone too long, out of sight out of mind. And I don't know, I won't do that anymore. But what do I want to do? So I decided to go back to school. And I went back to school and got into a psychology program, a counseling psychology program, which is a phenomenal program at the University of Santa Monica here in spiritual psychology. And this is counseling, psychology, philosophy, it's based on taking 100% personal responsibility for everything that happens in your
life. And using forgiveness, self forgiveness, primarily as the vehicle for healing and change. And it completely changed my outlook. And I started talking about things differently, started going from this interest in content and development of movies, and the story's around them to people. And what happens as you get older, I have found out is that you naturally progress into this search for meaning and purpose.
And I found myself drawn to people's stories and how they worked and why they, you know, did what they did. And that landed me an amazing job at DreamWorks Animation, I wound up back in the business, but I was doing a different role. I was in a people role, I was not in a production role. And I was working with a bunch of their artists and technologists, on being better artists and technologists, and really growing the human capital at DreamWorks, which was a phenomenal job. And that is the
pivot. And that led to all of the work that I was doing there. And education started college outreach program. And when I left DreamWorks in 2009, because the fit was no longer there, it was not about I did something wrong. I went to them actually and said, Is there anything left for me to do here? And they said, No, you know, you've been great. No one could have done this the way you did it, you know, you've completely revolutionized the way we work
with our staff. But we're going in a different direction, you want to do more of this education, training and coaching. So good luck. And they were great. To me, it was a great send off meal, they kept inviting me to the screenings and the parties. So it was one of those wonderful, strange kind of parties, kind of like the end of Casa Blanca, you know, we've been great friends, but I went off to pursue the coaching and the training. And that's how that started.
That's amazing. Just love it. Let's talk about today's challenges for what you would describe as...
I want to get back, I want to get back to that third, the third element, because we're talking about you asked me about the three elements I have talked about value proposition, and messaging. But the third element is really the most important element. And that's the network.
Networking.
Right. So I think it's really important that people get their heads around this idea that applying for jobs online is not the way to get a job. You got to stop chasing open positions, and start chasing relationships. And you have to start chasing the relationships while you still have a job. So that when you need another job or you want to change the job that you're into a better one. You have your referral network of like minded connections to help you make
that transition. And that's where the magic happens is in the network.
I love the concept of chase relationships right at the end of the day. It's funny, isn't it? employer now, almost 30 years, early jobs where I was a manager and or transitioning in the entrepreneurial world. I'm always saying that, in a lot of cases, great opportunities are not just open. They are found, or they are created. I can't tell you how many people I've said to someone, hey, listen, I see that you're doing XYZ. But I respect what you're doing over
there. And if something changed in your world, I'd love to chat with you. Right? Yes, absolutely. Right, that comes out of my relationship or reaching out for a relationship and respecting someone's talent and respecting where they are right saying, Hey, listen, I love what you're doing. If for whatever reason, something changed, let me know. But I love that idea. And, you know, this gets into the hidden job market.
That's exactly what my next question was gonna be, which is you've got this concept of the hidden job market talk a little about that?
Well, the hidden job market is, and this is talked about in recruiting circles. This is where a, some people would say 90% of hiring actually takes place, which is kind of mind boggling when you think about the number of resumes that are up on indeed, and monster and all these online job sites. That's 10%. Right? That's 10% of the world. That's the top of the iceberg. And actually, businesses run through referrals, and internal promotions and hires. So you want to be part of that hidden
job market. You want to be discovered by someone as you're just talking about that example. And that person comes to you and says, you know, we have this problem that we're trying to solve, and we don't have a job posted, because we don't really know what the job is that's going to solve this. But you seem like the kind of person we should work with. This is how I got the job at DreamWorks.
Yeah.
There was no job posting.
Yeah, take creative one.
Someone said, you know, you'd be a great person to have around here. And I said, Okay, start introducing me to people at DreamWorks. And that's what happened. And it took me six months of meeting various people, and building a sense of enthusiasm, right? Oh, my God, this guy could do this, he could do this, he could do this. We got to bring him in here, we'll
figure it out. So there was no job, there was a like mindedness, there was an affinity that I had, in terms of my values, where I saw things going the way I was commenting on what they were doing, developing those relationships, to the point where they said, Come on in. And that's the hidden job market at work, where you're going to get hired for a job that never even existed, until you walked in the door.
I love that idea of this hidden job market. And this idea ties back into what you're saying about networking. I think what else you're saying is that don't undermine your experience that got you here.
And going back to that value proposition dialog that you were discussing, is understand the value that brought you here, no matter what got you here, your experience, I'd like to say in my world of the mind shift community is the reps that you have done, career wise, experience wise, knowledge wise, skill wise, education wise, it all is a recipe for your value proposition, which is what John's talking about.
Exactly.
And that is going to be a good fit. As John eloquently said earlier, it's gonna be a fit for someone that's gonna be a fit for an organization today. But you're saying it's not necessarily on monster.com?
Well, it's hard to do it on monster.com. Because on monster.com, the recruiter is going to look at your resume for six seconds. And they're looking for skills that are popping out on their applicant tracking system.
Yeah.
Right. So look, nothing against skills. I think this is it's great. If you're a young professional, and you're kind of on your way up, you need to learn your skills, you need to keep your skills up to date. And by the way, we all need to do that we all need to know what we know and make sure that we are fully updated when it comes to doing and delivering on what we can do. But at the end of the day, they don't hire skills, they hire people, they hire people who can fit in who can
work within a team. And teamwork is now more important than ever, because teams have much greater responsibility as teams in a networked, flatter workforce. So you want to be a great team player, you want to be a leader on that team, you want to be contributing, you want to be contributing over and above the level of expectation. So there are all sorts of I hate the word soft skills, because these are
not soft skills at all. These are very incisive important skills, but the people skills, the mindfulness skills, the emotional intelligence skills, these are equally or more important than the actual widget workflow, technical procedural skills that you bring to the job
is such a great point. John, I'm so glad you touched. They don't hire skills, they hire people. Just love that. You know, it sounds simple. But sometimes we get caught up in our head. And like you said, We run to the resume and say, Oh, let me put 39 skills that I acquired over my life. It isn't, I know you're seeing it, right. You've seen it. And well, it's overwhelming.
Absolutely. And I'll tell you, to your point about what someone who's looking at a resume is looking for you every hiring person has their own thing that they're looking for. I have mine, not really for the purpose of this show. But john, you also talked about I want to pivot to LinkedIn really fast. Before we talk about, you've got a...
I just want to say one more thing about skills.
Yeah.
Which is that a skill is not a solution.
There you go, you've got to be what's that value proposition? Right? That's what you're describing? What's the value proposition? Right? What are those skills?
So you can have those 39 skills on your resume? I still don't know what you solve for.
And that's what you know, really, what you're saying is the business has a job posting for a problem that needs to be solved by a human?
That's exactly right. Right. One good skill that solves my problem as an employer is worth 150 skills on a resume that, I guess I could use, at some point.
Who has the skills, but it isn't just the skills that's going to get it done. Because you said earlier, you have to be a good fit for them, you've got to be a team player, you've got to be a leader, you've got to have those
soft skills. And a lot of times when you are in transition, though, you sometimes forget all the soft skills you forget all of those intangibles, but are really, and I love that you said they are really tangible, and output because we think of them as soft skills, but being able to relate to people being able to listen, being able to have healthy dialogue and debate, being able to agree to disagree on a project and still move the project to its finish line to be able to set objectives and key
results. And even if they're not the key result I want, it might be what you want. But I get behind that great point, they all are soft skills. And when you aren't able to do those things is sometimes when you can find yourself on the other side of the table. And that's where it ends up hurting. Right. John, I want to ask you, as we get ready to wrap up in today's digital world, I see it because I am on the hiring side of
things in my organizations. And I see a lot of baby boomers that are applying for sometimes what I think are fairly entry level positions. And I think it speaks to some of the conversation we were having earlier they've devalued themselves, they haven't gone through the exercises that you've talked about people with two master's degrees. And and again, yes, education alone doesn't necessarily mean you've got the experience for the position. But
I'm disturbed in many ways. When I see a baby boomer who is applying for work in my world, I'm in a digital field, by the way. And it's like it's an assistant role on my production team. Talk a little bit about what you're seeing in this regard. And I don't know if there's something you're seeing in your coaching students with the psychology that they're carrying. And I know we've maybe touched on it. But talk a little bit about that. Are you seeing that?
I'm really glad you bring this up because there is a there's a subset of people who follow me put it this way. If you're applying to the job that you just got let go from then you're overqualified. Right? And you're going to be deemed as being overqualified. So people come to me a lot. They say, I'm being told I'm overqualified. But that's ridiculous. I'm not overqualified, I can do that job.
Of course you can.
And my replies, just because you can do the job doesn't mean that you should do the job. Or that you're the best person to do that job. Because think about this, the job that you just left, they're looking to replace you with someone who is 10 years younger and 10 years cheaper, just the way you were
when you got that job, right. So you need to and this by the way, this is not only true for baby boomers in their 50s for Gen Xers in their 40s, it's also true for millennials in their 30s we have to be in this particular highly competitive, disruptive business economy, we have to be always looking to upgrade, and uplevel the work that we do and get to the next level because that's what the economy and employers are demanding. They need the
competitive edge. And we have to be competitive within ourselves to deliver our best work and build upon the experience and the skills that we have learned up to this moment and pay it forward to decide and to propose and to aspire to achieving more tomorrow. So that's the message around being overqualified and about someone who's devaluing themselves, take a step back and figure out what it is that you actually can provide. What is your value proposition, really stop looking at those job
postings. This is I'm getting this set about this as we're talking.
Oh I hear it.
Right because it is a waste. It is a terrible waste of value of potential of solution and deliverables to employers, when someone applies to a job that should be done by someone with far less experience.
Great way to transition into the resource that you have for our listeners today, who may find themselves at a point of career pivot, whether it's voluntary or involuntary. Because what you're describing is it is a new world, I'm in the new world of digital technology and transformation, I have to have this conversation, there are certain things that the job title actually means something different in the world of digital versus an offline
analog world. So share with our listeners today, what resource you've got for them, if they find themselves in this place of pivot for looking for this new job. What's next opportunity?
Well, first of all, thank you for the opportunity to be on the show and to engage with your listeners and to offer this
planning guide. So if you go to the URL - go.johntarnoff.com\3steps - you will find this planning guide that takes you through what I believe are the first three most important steps to as you were saying, before getting started with this process, whether you are in your job, and you're thinking I should be doing something more, and it could be within your company, right, you could find a way to provide more value and evolve to a different position, different department
different role, or you want to get out of there, you have an aspiration to do something more, or you are recovering from job loss. And you're trying to organize this process and be able to state succinctly and clearly what your value proposition is. Make that message work using your LinkedIn profile by the way to do that, and then to connect to others through your network, the planning guide will give you a great way to get into that.
Awesome that URL again is go.johntarnoff.co3steps - we will get that link in the show notes wherever you're listening to this episode right now just look down in the show notes. And you'll be able to click on that link and go out and access that resource. John, thank you again for putting that together. You also have a book.
I do.
Called Boomer Reinvention.
Yes.
How to create your dream career over 50?
Yes.
We'll also link that up. If for those watching on YouTube, you can see him holding up a copy right here. Awesome. Appreciate that. John, the work it takes to write a book is also an admirable. And so thank you for putting your expertise in a format that is now what I call very scalable and digestible for all people
who could be in that. So whether it's the free resource online, whether it's the book, you're going to want to take some of what john is talking about today and really apply it to your situation. John, I always like to ask my guests. It's kind of a final thought final big idea. And that is if for whatever reason, you were not able to be on this planet tomorrow. What would you want everyone to remember you for?
I think the number one thing I would hope people say was, he was a great listener.
That's a great soft skill. A great place for us to end. John Tarnoff, thanks for being here on The MindShift podcast.
Darrell. It's been a pleasure. It's been a lot of fun. And just shout out to all your wonderful listeners. Thanks so much.
Hey, my friend. Thanks again for listening. Today's episode of the mind shift podcast. Listen, let's not have the conversation and here connect with me on social at Mr. Darrell Evans on almost all the platforms. With the exception of Facebook. My Facebook fan page is at Darrell Evans fan. Until next week, remember you're just one shift away from the breakthrough. You're looking for.