72: Leadership Through Emotional Intelligence with Irvine Nugent

to create pattern within us. And what happens, of course, is it's a stimulus and then we're reacting in a certain way. What's very powerful for any person, not just leaders, is to begin to explore those patterns. And to be curious about them, and to think about, how often have they happened? And how far can I go back to explore them.

Welcome to The MindShift Podcast where every week on this show, our goal is to help you shift your mind so you can shift your results in your business and your life. If you've not done so already, hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening to the show, so that you never miss an episode. And after you enjoy today's show, DM me on Instagram @MrDarrellEvans, and let me know your biggest mind shift from today's show. Listen, if this is your first time here, my name is Darrell

Evans. I'm a serial entrepreneur who started his first business at the age of 20. I've now gone on to build several successful businesses across the seven figure mark. And through my digital marketing agency, we've now helped clients generate over nine figures in revenue over the last 11 years. While the journey from inspiration to realization is fun to talk about. It's actually when life knocked me down that I learned some of my biggest success lessons here at mind shift we call those

breakdowns. Now it's those breakdowns that led me to develop a framework called the mind shift method. It's a four step framework I use anytime I get stuck. I need to overcome a major life challenge or a business challenge. Or if I want to pursue a new career path or desire of any kind. You know, I use this when I was sleeping on my grandmother's couch, living out of two duffel bags of

clothes. When I was starting one of my first successful businesses, I used it when I faced the reality that I'd have to figure out how to be a good father to my two boys at the time, who were living 1075 miles away from me. I used it when my business collapsed in 2008. And I had to file bankruptcy and I lost everything and I had to start over again. It wasn't until 2020 when something else happened. And someone asked me, How do you do it? How do you remain so calm through

adversity? How do you keep a positive outlook when facing what would take most other people out? And what I didn't realize at that time was I've been using this framework unconsciously for like the last two decades. That conversation though, led me to break down this four step framework, and I share it with all of the members of The MindShift Community. The MindShift Community is my free coaching community where you can gather with us every single month for free, live

masterclass. You also get access to me for monthly Q and A's and you even get exclusive discounts on merge programs and events not available to the general public. The best part is, it's 100% free to join in another tab really quick. Go to mindshiftcommunity.com that's mindshiftcommunity.com to join for free, and I'll see you inside the community. My guest today believes that leadership development is a journey from

the inside out. If our emotional intelligence is lacking than any new business skill we attempt to implement we'll be adversely impacted. As such, he has spent most of his career helping leaders harness the power of their emotions so they can have deeper connections, make better decisions and increase their influence. Born in Northern Ireland and growing up in a society torn apart by division

in violence. Irvine Nugent has seen firsthand the damage done when communication breaks down and people fail to listen and understand. This has inspired him to help leaders build workplaces in which people thrive and realize their full potential. He is the author of the book, leadership lessons from the pub. And he says he has a call to help people discover the superpower they have in their emotions to help People and leaders connect on a deeper level and build bridges and not

walls. Here's my conversation Irvine. Irvine, how you doing? Welcome to The MindShift Podcast.

leaders. And I work with them, delving into their emotional lives, how they can use emotions to be better leaders, and really help people, as I say, to build bridges and not walls.

empathy to build connection. And then the fourth thing is they use all of that to build solid relationships, and also have relationships which have a positive outcome.

were challenging. And then the second thing is that in the workplace today, the days when you could command and it was obeyed, are over, you know, we have another generation who are looking for other things. They're looking for a sense of belonging, they're looking for incense of inclusion, and they're looking for a workplace where their voice is heard. And all of that, of course, is based on relationship, which is at the core of emotional intelligence.

all generations. And I think about the generation licious Demuth, the baby boomer generation, that has in many cases not so nice things to say, about the millennial generation, I seem to get left out like the Gen X group, they seem to like us all right, you know, but what do you say to the leader who is the baby boomer and has to or is confronted with this new generation, and there's complete distinctions and behavioral patterns, psychology desire for future outcome, but it's the

baby boomer, sort of senior leader, and the millennial team member, staff employee, where's the gap? Where's the problem lie initially?

different events. And those events place in us I feel different values and what is important, and I think we forget that I think we forget the fact what I always say to leaders is to be curious, ask questions, you know, and so often, we settled down into you're not doing this or you're not doing that, and instead of it is, you know, talk to me a little bit about what's important for you. Why is it important? You know,

the why question the deeper. And I think what normally happens is, you know, when you bring down and have some open conversations from some of these different generational groups, it's amazing then, as they hear the stories, that they begin to appreciate each other. And then I think that better positions us for what we're asking why we're asking, and it really helps in the relationship.

saw. And therefore, I actually sort of saw that as I grew up in my parents, based on them being boomers growing up underneath that sort of economic situation. And of course, we had social economic situations, civil unrest that guided their discussions. Let's bring it to the workplace, though. So I love the first thing you said about self awareness. So what do you do with the leader who's self aware that they are a jerk or self aware that they are aware that they don't care what the

other generation thinks? I mean, I see this play out in different clients that we work with. And I'm just really interested from the guy who has to teach people through this and guide them through it. What do you do with that person who's self aware that they just don't care?

try it your way. And what you are going to have is a set of different roadblocks along the way, and your role will be frustrated. And very often now you've got the risk of losing staff. And that's a huge deal for you know, because the most expensive part of any business is retraining and hiring. Or you can be curious, and maybe think about different ways of doing it. But ultimately, you know, I just bring people like that I bring to the bottom line, what

is the bottom line? If you're looking for this bottom line than the way you're going about it? You're not going to get there?

person is going through. And to understand that, because I like to say, you know, there's a lot of hunger in the world today. And in some countries, it's for food. But for most people, it's to be listened to Yeah, and we live in a super fast world, and to be listened to, can really change a person's day. And also, as a leader gives you incredible data that useful.

well. And I think empathy is just finding that, where's that ground where you're committed to what I'm committed to, and then let me help you get what you need, so that we can get what we need together. And it's just a short, I don't want to end up on a tangent there. But I love what you said about that I loved also something I found in your bio, which I use the phrase superstar DNA. And in my world, I say that every human being has a superstar definite natural

ability. And I saw that somewhere on your website, or in your bio, that you really believe you help people discover their superstar power that they have in their emotions. Tell me a little bit about why you see it that way.

And someone is annoyed you and triggers you and you scream at them to walking into a meeting and being aware, oh, this person may trigger me they always do. And when it happens to be able to do something like take a breath or to step back and then to be deliberate in your response. And that's huge.

service agencies. And then that got me into the role of that I'm presently in working with executive leaders.

way. And I think what happens is that I find in organizations that the people begin to learn a language of how to describe what's going on. And very often, when there's communication breakdown, I find one of the issues with that is people don't have the words to describe what's happening. And they struggle to put language around it. And when you bring something like the disk into an organization, it can be incredibly powerful, because people then have a common

language. And then are you able to explore what's happening around that it's a very positive assessment. It doesn't say what you're doing wrong. It says what might be some issues for you. But it tends to be on the whole very positive assessment, and I love it, I enjoy using it.

doing it for. But I ended up figuring out that what he was learning to do was he was trying to figure out how to best coach me by understanding how I communicated, what was my personality, what were my tendencies, what is my natural sort of tenancy out of the disk format, and that would help him adapt his style to me later, I figured out how powerful that was. There's something about disk for those who may not have

done it. By the way, I recommend that everyone do it for themselves, even if you're not in leadership, because you'll learn some things about yourself. And the one thing I want to ask about since you do have some experience, and we'll go back to AI, is when you look at the results, you see things like your natural style, and then your adapted style. And what I took from that was it was very interesting to say, here's how you are naturally based on

your answers. But here's how you actually perform under pressure. Or when you are in a certain environment, you actually make change to do something different. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I thought it was one of the most fascinating adaptations. And then I've got a second question that but talk a little bit about that adaptive verse. And I might have the words wrong, I apologize, your natural versus your adaptive stuff.

us, there's a lot of stress. And sometimes when we are stressed or even going back to the Ei language, when we're emotionally triggered, that can bring out another set of behaviors. And the other thing is sometimes the workplace culture is very different to a home culture. And so we're in a culture where we've learned to adapt to that culture. And so we know that there are certain ways of behaving and sometimes people who've been jobs, 1012 years, and so that has become a new

habit. And, and so some people will say, you know, well, that certain work, I turn up a certain way, but when I go home, I'm a different person. And really, that's the reality of what's happening.

emotional triggers. And sometimes those triggers come from our personal lives are past relationships, you know something when we grew up when we were a kid, talk about these triggers as relates to the work environment and how you help leaders deal with those things. They can't say, I'm going to

give you a perfect example. And maybe you've seen it in your work, I'd imagine that if you've been doing it 15 years with your leaders, I've got for someone in my mind, I know as a strong communicator, a strong strategist of what they do knowledgeable, I call them really expert technicians is sort of my label. And then we ask that person for feedback on a project a key aspect of a project, and we get nothing. But then we have a roundtable discussion about the direction

of where the projects go. And they'll say something like, Yeah, I was thinking about that, but we never heard. And it's interesting, because this is my assumption, I can't make for sure that this is the case. But it's almost as if there's been a time in the past where they were

punished for speaking up. And that's just one example in my 20 years that I can think back to that really just was interesting to me, but how do you deal with managing emotional triggers when they've come from somewhere else?

to create pattern within us. And what happens, of course, is it's a stimulus, and then we're reacting in a certain way. What's very powerful for any person, not just leaders, is to begin to explore those patterns. And to be curious about them. And to think about, how often have they happened? And how far can I go back to explore them.

So you know, riffing off of your example, there, I was working with a client like two months ago, and what happened is, she used to have a meeting, and there was a particular person there, who would shut her down, and wouldn't do in a offensive way. But we'll just talk over, and she got triggered and said nothing. And just shut down. The more we explored it, you know, she grew up, and she can remember being told at the table not to talk to be kind of shut down. And so she carries this.

And so part of that, first of all, is just to be aware, because you know, when more aware, things don't have a bind overs. And then the second thing I always say to people, what's the cost? So what's the cost of you not speaking up in that meeting, and just for your client, what's the cost of you maybe not sharing information at a certain time. And then the other thing, then is to reimagine a different outcome, I believe in the power of visualization, I think is a

great power. And so I use that technique with her to visualize her reacting in a different way to that meeting, you know, one of the things we worked at was that she would walk in, and the person kind of started speaking, and then she just became a little more assertive and says, actually, I'm sorry, I'm actually not finished, there's

something I need to say, wow. So you know, the triggers that we're not slaves or triggers the we can actually reformulate them and turn them is to something we have power over.

a little far. Right. So I love that you keep bringing that word back up. I I want to ask you about your book, you've got a book that you wrote, and it's called leadership lessons from the pub. So what on earth? Does the pub have anything to do with leadership?

it. Here's the space where for hundreds of years, people have wanted to go where they go there, they call it their local, at least in Ireland and England. They do. And there's a space there. That's really interesting, because people go and they have these conversations that are vulnerable. These conversations where you don't have to come in with your airs and graces, you come with your warts, you don't have to be this perfect person. You share the stories that went

wrong, and you get support. And I'm thinking there is something special in this place that I think can teach leaders a lot about the spaces that work needs to become.

team. I make a joke that when I grew up, I used to watch this show called Gilligan's Island. And it was a show, you know, I think it was in the 70s and 80s. I don't know actually when it went off air, but I remember the jingle forever. And it was the weather started getting rough. That tiny ship was tossed. And if not for the courage of the fearless crew, the minnow would

be lost. And the joke of the jingle for me is that as a leader in the last 20 years running companies, is there times when the weather will start to get a little rough, and your tiny ship, your company will be tossed. And in my world, I've seen people decide they've put up their white flag, and they've called for the Coast Guard, and they've got off the boat. Other people try to hide in the back. Where am I going

with this? My question is about leadership, and how do we read the emotions and the body language of our employees, our team members, when sometimes these emotional triggers can be very deep, and they really don't want to talk to you about them. Talk to us a bit about how the task that we have as leaders to really understand what our team is feeling emotionally, when you know, the ship is tossing and that means turbulence in whatever that means inside of your business who's listening to

this. But I want to throw that over to you Irvine, what are your thoughts on the challenge to really, really understand our people's emotions?

the Cold War. And they said that the world would be or at least geo-politically would be a vuca world, the VUCA, which stands for volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous, and boy does that nail the business world just to recognize that even if your business is doing well, the background to all business at the moment is this uncertainty, this volatility, this complexity? So first of all, recognize that people don't do well. And as human beings were created to be safe, and we're

created to protect ourselves. So to understand that people are adapting to the situation. And I think therefore, as leaders, we have to really garnish as much information as we can from the people in front of us, though, a couple of things. One is it is possible to read people's faces, that's what I teach, you know, are the emotions that show in our faces, to be aware that at times, that people react in different ways, to the stresses and to be curious about how

they're reacting. I mean, a great example, this past year, in COVID, you know, the majority of workers had to work from home. And how people reacted to that was so different. And I met a few leaders that have made assumptions about how they thought people were reacting.

And it was totally wrong. So I think at times, I think what we have to do is we have to create spaces where people feel that they can build trust, that they can talk about what's happening, we have to learn signals, body language signals, as well, both face and the body. And I think the way I like to talk is this person in comfort or distress. And it's pretty clear, you know, non verbally, that's a nice way

of looking at it. And then know if we're seeing kind of some of the distress or on ease, to be able to kind of ask some really great questions around that so that we can begin to elicit some more information.

somewhere in Kentucky. Both were having a different experience was one was living in a space of 800 square feet, New York and the other had a single family home with some space. So understanding some of that background really helps you then understand, you know, maybe how people might be showing up some of the things that they're showing.

happening within us. So that's the others. And then the other thing is take some practical steps to be able to read other people, you know, you can train to read emotions in people's faces, you can train to learn some body language as well and some signs. And that's just like turning on two new sets of data that you didn't have before.

another place of their life. And that whether it was a distant place, or most recent place, and I think that's where that piece as a leader comes in, I want to ask about the book, what made you write the book and tell us a bit about that journey? Because I know writing books is not easy.

more personal story. So there's a lot of meaning in the book, which I wasn't planning to have initially. And I think the emphasis for me is, in some way, it's an extension of my mission. And so I truly believe that if people can become more emotionally intelligent, that we have better conversations, that we can deal with conflict in a constructive way that we've healthier workplaces, we have healthier families. And if I can be a little part in achieving that, then I've done well in my

mission. And so the book for me became an extension of that.

that you're doing. And again, I believe everyone's journey has brought them to a place where they're taking their unique gift and spreading it out in the world. So thank you so much for doing that work and helping leaders build better environments. And if we build up ourselves, we can build better people to help them fulfill their destiny. So thank you so much for that work. Last question. I always like to ask to really figure out what that deep underlying mission is for

you. And you might have already covered it but if for whatever reason just couldn't be here on this planet we love tomorrow. What would you want everyone to remember you by?