Hey my friend, this is Darrell Evans. Welcome back to The MindShift Podcast. I'm excited to have you here today for a very special interview from me appearing on The Success Ascent Podcast with Pat Mancuso. You might remember Pat from Episode 159 from The MindShift Podcast where he talked about what every small business needed to know about ERTC, that's the Employee Retention Tax Credit. Now, if you haven't listened to that one yet, as soon as this is done today, scroll back to Episode
159 and check it out. Pat was also on the show a while ago and did a micro masterclass on overcoming common struggles that we face personally, as leaders and entrepreneurs. You can listen to that one at episode 123. As many of you know, I'm the co-founder and CEO of Yokel Local and the founder of The
MindShift Business Academy. Now I had the opportunity to be on Pat's show, The Success Ascent Podcast, and we discussed one of the biggest traps that entrepreneurs face when growing and scaling their businesses. I'm blessed now to be in my 32nd year of business and now for the last 12 years have been helping hundreds of companies grow and scale their businesses online to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. It's actually hard
to believe. As we head into 2023, I thought this discussion might help you as you are planning for success in this changing and uncertain economy. So we reached out to Pat and his team and asked for permission to air his show here. And of course, he said yes. After you listen, be sure to search for The Success Ascent Podcast and follow it. You can also learn more about what Pat is doing to help business leaders maximize their potential at
www.patmancuso.com. For now, enjoy our discussion on the biggest traps in entrepreneurship. Let me know your thoughts by leaving a text or voice comment by clicking the link below. I'll talk to you soon.
Welcome to The Success Ascent. Today we welcome Mr. Darrell Evans. Darrell is a serial entrepreneur. He's also the host of The MindShift Podcast and co-founder of Yokel Local Internet Marketing Company. Darrell shares with us some amazing content. He says first, the biggest trap is you thinking you have to do it all. He says it's not about selling a product. It's about managing you. He goes on to talk about what he calls superstar DNA, which is definite natural ability. He says don't hire
people to do their job. Hire people to perform their gifts. I know you're going to enjoy the episode today. So and to the Ascent.
Welcome to The Success Ascent. My name is Pat Mancuso and I am the creator and host of our show. And we are excited today to have Mr. Darrell Evans with us. Now we're gonna get to know Darrell in just a bit from his perspective. however, let me tell you what we know about Darrell. Darrell is a serial entrepreneur. He's an investor, and he's the co founder of Yokel Local, I love that, internet marketing. He and his team have helped entrepreneurs and companies to generate over $300 million in
revenue since 2011 online. He personally has started and or operated six businesses since the age of 20 and he doesn't look over 25, so I'm sure there's a great story there. He's also the host of The MindShift Podcast, which I'm sure we're going to talk a little bit about. Darrell is passionate about
entrepreneurship. When he appears on podcasts, he loves sharing lessons, mistakes and breakthrough framework that have helped him and hundreds of other businesses market profitably, grow sales predictably, and build superstar teams. So Darrell, welcome to the show today.
Pat, I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Well, it's our pleasure. And so as you know, we always ask our guests after we do the intro on paper, we say okay, Darrell, tell us something about Darrell that wasn't on paper. So tell us something about Darrell that we don't know.
Yes, this is a fun one for me. I'm a fanatic about the Food Network. And I have an unhealthy obsession with Diners, Drive Ins and Dives, Bobby, Beat Bobby Flay and literally anything cooking and related to the world of chefs. And so I spent an inordinate amount of time on that, on that network as well as an inordinate amount of time in the kitchen.
I love it. I love it. Well, Darrell, you'd get along with my son because he's a sous chef, and he went to culinary school and those shows that you mentioned particularly, Diners, Drive, Dives and Drive Ins however, that's his one of his favorite shows. So I get it and I'm guessing you like to eat like I do. So you know that that's, that is fun. So, so Darrell, let's talk, you know in the beginning of our episodes, I always like to talk to entrepreneurs about their journey, their success journey.
That's why we titled the podcast as Success Ascent. So what would you share as an entrepreneur? Like, where did you start with the entrepreneurial mindset? Like how far back does that go?
You know, Pat, it's a great question and it goes back to my teenage years. And I started thinking about entrepreneurship, literally, in my 16, 17, 18 year range, and I used to go to the store with my mom and I never really wanted to go to the store at that time. Ironically, today, I love cooking the way I do. So I do all the grocery shopping in the house. But I would always find myself at the magazine rack looking at Entrepreneur Magazine, Forbes, Inc, business opportunity, things like that.
It just was where my gaze went. I was an athlete in high school, all the way through high school. I'm a super big sports fan. And I just thought about entrepreneurship and the standpoint of it, I got an early access to business as well. My first job, and so I just, I just wanted to do it. I don't know what it was. I can't say it was some pathway that I was following. But it just caught my attention and I just honored it.
So, so when you jumped in, like your first entrepreneurial experience, talk about that a little bit. Like how did that happen?
That's a fun story. I, so I started in college at the age of 20. I, as an athlete, I come to the end of my sports playing career. I'm going to college actually at the time as a as an electrical engineer. And I'm also a general manager for a little company called Taco Bell that is a college kids favorite. And I started a sportswear selling business, right? So I found some vendors to buy and sell
sportswear. So I was selling hats, T shirts, sweatshirts, typically what you know, everybody calls today, ecommerce, I was setting up a little stand out of the trunk of my car at the swap meet. I'd back my little Honda Civic up. And every weekend, I'd go out and sell sportswear at the swap meet. So that was my first venture.
So when you did that, like how old were you?
20, yes 20, 21.
And so what did you learn at that point about being an entrepreneur, because what I always love when we talk about this journey is you know, we talk about doing an entrepreneur early, right, like there's no entrepreneur playbook when you start at 16 or 17. And most people, you know, don't have mentors or coaches at that time. So who did you take a lot of your guidance from at that time?
So it's great, great question. My entrepreneurial guidance came from early books that I read at the time, one of which was, and I say that being an entrepreneur is much about you managing you, more so than you selling a product or a service. So you know, selling the product or service, what was the trick for me was when I realized that over a weekend, I can make as much as a week, in a weekend as I can
make all week at work. And that was you know, Jim Rohn would say profits are better than wages. So that was the, that was the hook that, the books though, Anthony Robbins, Unlimited Power, Awaken the Giant Within
early days. And really, I look to Brian Tracy, Zig Ziglar, Les, Les Brown, they, they were instrumental in my days, and I've never met any of those, those, those gentlemen, and happen to be gentlemen, you know, but I call them mentors, because for 17 bucks, 15 bucks, 13 bucks, whatever the books cost . . .
Right.
. . . you can let someone else's lessons feed into your pathway, into your understanding. And, and at the very least, that's what I think entrepreneurs should be doing.
Well, you know, what's interesting, Darrell, and you and I, obviously are in alignment on this. I mean, those individuals that you mentioned, you know, the lessons that they brought to the table, they're
classics, they don't change. I mean, if you go back and you look at, you know, a lot of the successful people today, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, they'll all mention things like Zig Ziglar and, you know, Les Brown, and you know, Brian Tracy and you can go on, Tony Robbins and you know, Tony Robbins is still doing big time stuff right now, it seems like he started well, he did start when he was like 19 with Jim Rohn. You know, so, so it's, you know, that like the classics just never go out of
style, right? The foundational, the fundamentals there. So, as an entrepreneur, what are some of the lessons you've learned?
You know, lesson number one is, you've got to be good at keeping commitments to yourself. If you want to succeed in this game of entrepreneurship, it all starts and ends with you. Now, in that same phrase, or that same statement is one of the biggest traps of being an entrepreneur, which is thinking that you have to do it all, right? So that's what I spend a lot of my work in
doing today. So lesson number one is get help early and often as possible, because you're just not good as at as many things as you think you are. And the, the sort of the mantra, the badge, the shield we wear sometimes as entrepreneurs is we'll figure it out. And I think there's an aspect of that is super true and it's relevant and necessary, but only up until the point where you understand you are out of your area of what I call superstar DNA, definite natural
ability. And so that's one of the earliest things that I think is, as a lesson, I would share.
So let me ask you this, because I have this belief, and I've heard it with almost every guest I've interviewed, that one of the things that they had to learn really early on, because it wasn't something that was out there readily available, or that they were taught was, was how to hire people around them. Do you find that that that's true?
Still a huge problem to this day, and I just finished a call, a half hour before we jumped on this show. And it is one of the things that I have, so I was very fortunate, Pat, if you can think back. I'm 20 years old. I'm the general manager of a restaurant called Taco Bell. At, before I left that, that, that career, and it was a career I you know, how do you have a career in your early
20s, that was a career for me. I learned so much about hiring, managing, training, empowering, getting results that didn't require me. So when I transitioned into entrepreneurship full time, I had a blueprint of what that looked like running a highly efficient restaurant. And in fact, I ended up with two restaurants before I left that were under my, my management before, at the same time, where I had, I think, 12 or 13 assistant managers with 55 employees . . .
Sure.
. . . right at the end of my stint. So I've become, I've learned two things about hiring. Number one, don't hire people to do jobs, hire people to perform their gifts. So that's, that's number one. And that gets people a little weird when I say it. What I've learned is when you hire someone who is gifted and talented at the thing that you need done in your organization, and it aligns with your bigger vision, you'll never have to really ask them to show up to work, they will be
there, they will be there. The second, the second thing, I think is even just right in front of that, and that is you've got to paint a picture for people, Where in the heck are you going? I made big mistakes in my early days of hiring as an entrepreneur by just hiring people to do things, tasks, right? I just wanted it off my plate. And I got it wrong three or four times, and then I got it right. And I think I've done it pretty good ever since.
And that's one of the things I like to pass on, to entrepreneurs that I work with.
Well, you know, it's interesting that you say that. So some of the work that we do outside of our podcast is we consult with small to medium sized companies. And we have a proprietary hiring, training and then long term motivation modules and systems that we bring into organizations and our system helped one of the largest real estate companies in the world grow from a kinda like they were just a little blip in a town in Texas into one of the largest real estate companies in
the world. And you know, so you and I live in in kind of that same world. And it's just so important for retention. And, you know, we're helping a client right now. And they just hired three amazing people. And they didn't have to negotiate salary, the people love it and, and they're like everybody's struggling to hire people. So it's definitely about a system. So, so as an entrepreneur, let's talk about some of the mistakes
that you've made. Like if you had to do it all over again, what would you do differently?
Big one is hire early and often, right? Get, you've got to decide if you're the visionary of the business or if you really are the operational integrator. You know, I learned when I read E Myth back in 2000, that you've got to pick your lane. And sometimes you don't exactly know what your lane is, but the faster you learn your lane, and the real, and the realization that there's someone else more gifted, more talented, more desirable, who wants to do that
thing. And that's something that would have been an early mistake. I think the other side of it is, is never taking, especially when you're a younger entrepreneur, when I say younger, meaning a smaller company, younger in business, is you've got to have a sales system in place that runs consistently all the time, and you need to utilize leverage. A lot of times when we're smaller companies, we do a lot to
generate business. And then we go into the world of servicing the business and then we go back to generating business and then we go back to servicing business. And that unfortunate roller coaster makes entrepreneurship a nightmare.
Right.
And so today with technology, and automation and leverage, there's simple things that even the startup entrepreneur, I see just not doing, that could give them leverage, time efficiency, operational efficiency and keep those engines running while they're trying to, because there's 1000 things to do, as you know Pat, when you're running, growing a business
Well, and it's so different today, right? Because you know how you can get access to the customer feels like a little easier. And yet at the same time, it's more complicated, right? Because they're getting hit from so many different . . .
No question.
. . . and so many different vehicles and their attention is being drawn so many different ways. So let's stick in the, in the entrepreneur world and so, you know, like, what's the biggest mistake you made, like the most painful mistake as an entrepreneur? Any comment on that.
Yeah, this is gonna sound a little esoteric but it, it every time I've had a big mistake in my businesses, and I've had plenty, still have them to this day, it's ignoring my intuition that says, this is a bad idea.
Yeah.
You know, it is so, we unfortunately as human creatures, we want to follow sometimes the path of others. But sometimes you've got to honor that, that nuance in your body. There, there's something internally. My, I bless that I think my grandmother taught me how to recognize this. And that is this idea of discernment. Meaning, just, just because everybody's going left and it looks popular, doesn't mean you
have to go left. And so I've learned, when I failed, it's because I have not acknowledged and been honored, I haven't honored that, that level of discretion and discernment, in my decision making, Pat. It's in my decision making, which goes to what I talk about in The MindShift Method, but it's always been a lack of, it's been a bad decision, and missing something that was very present that I just decided to ignore.
Yeah, it's that blind spot, right? We see it, we know it's the kind of there and then we don't necessarily pay attention to it. So let's shift over a little bit. So you're working with companies today, and you create this mindshift method. So talk about that, like, I want our listeners to always walk away from a show with something that they can implement, something that they can, you know, change the trajectory of their mindset, their business or sales. So talk
about that. I want to hear about that.
Yeah, a lot of people ask me why I didn't name the show, The Mindset Method, or whatever the mindset podcast and for me, I'm, I'm a big believer in mindset. But for, for most of us listening to this show, we love, we know that our life encounters two journeys, and that is this, this road from inspiration to realization, I want to do this thing, and I've got a goal in mind of where I want to go. But then life knocks us down, whether it's our fault, involuntary, whatever it may be.
And we find ourselves in the place that some people call failure, I like to call them breakdowns, and I've made more than my fair share. And it's in the moment of those breakdowns, that you're looking for a breakthrough. And so as I look at my life, all these years later, everything in my life has been one path or the other. So The MindShift Method was born out of a number of mistakes, one catastrophic one, as I would say it, but I won't get into the
depth of it due to the time. But I found myself at a place where I was at a place of loss, I was at a place of failure, I was at a place of breakdown, I was emotionally broke, I was mentally broke. I didn't know what to do next. And so I said, Okay, step one is the facts are now the facts. And so I realized that I could not move forward until I became peaceful with the facts. And a lot of times that means, honor what it is, even if
you caused it. But now in order to move forward, step two is you got to make decisions now about what are you going to do now that the facts are in place. And so making new decisions is the moment, I call it a shift, your life is one shift away, your breakthrough is one shift away from a new decision that you decide to make. And I really say that across a lot of spectrums. And then the third step, of course, is making a plan for how you're going to move forward.
Right? Right, so you can make a decision but do you have a real clear cut plan, and I think a lot of people today, they'll say that they want to do something, they'll say they're committed to it. And I really say if you've driven, if you've drawn a line in the sand, you now have to have a playbook, you have to have a process, you have to have a pathway that's going to move you forward. And then the last piece of it is, is you got to make it happen. And that's all
on you. You have to show up every day and do the hard work to stay committed to the decision that you made long after the feeling you made it in, has passed. And for entrepreneurs especially, man, we, you know, everyone knows this whole thing of Fear Of Missing Out, FOMO.
Yeah.
Bright, shiny objects, they fall down rabbit holes, because they just won't stay committed to the doggone decision that they made. And if they would have only done that they'd have been so far, so much further along. And this goes both personal and business life.
Well, you know, it's interesting that you say that from a, I was recently meeting with some, an entrepreneur and then their company. And one of the things that came out in the feedback was from the kind of the review, the unanimous review of the, of the members of the team was that they didn't stay the course a lot. It was always the shiny blank, you know, the change the course, change the course, change the course, and you know, they felt like they had whiplash, and you know, amazing
team doing amazing stuff. And yet how much more amazing could they be with a little bit more of that staying the course.
And we've all done it.
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
We've all done it. It's not about not, It's not being, it's not about perfection. It's about acknowledgement, right? It's having awareness and acknowledgement of when you're veering off the path. And I love the way Steven Pressfield puts this in the book, The War of Art. I think every entrepreneur should read that book once a year. Because what he talks about is the reason we do those things is because of this one word, and he calls it resistance.
Yeah.
And I don't want to get into it here. But I would recommend that everyone who's an entrepreneur, it's not just about writers. It's not just about artists because it's the War of Art. I think what we do as entrepreneurs is art, it is art and science. And we have to overcome this idea of resistance. And everything that he describes that we do as entrepreneurs, is resistance getting in the way of the thing that we're supposed to be doing.
Which of your steps do you think the entrepreneurs in your experience struggle with the most like, which one is glaring? And I know you kind of said it, but I want to make sure that I got it the right way.
To me, it's always about the, it's step two. Like to me, I believe, I believe a committed decision. And this is why I use the word shift, . . .
Right.
. . . because when I shift or when we make a shift, that means there is no other option. There are no options to do the other thing.
Right.
No options, under no circumstances with no-body. So I think that's where entrepreneurs mess up. And today, you know, we have, we have so many things that we could do, but it's about becoming narrowly focused. And so step three really plays into that because a lot of times they need somebody like you Pat, to really hold them to the guardrails. I use a lot of analogies in my teaching, my
coaching. You know, when we put little kids on the bowling alley, and we go to the front desk, we ask them to put up the bumpers.
Yeah.
And that's to make sure that the kid doesn't have a bad experience. It's not that they're going to get a strike because the bumpers are up, it's to make sure they're not let down by the ball doing inevitably what it's going to do, which is roll into the gutter. But as adults, a lot of times we don't have these guardrails, we'd like to say we know it all. And we don't want nobody helping us. And so I often say step three is the biggest failure, because generally you'll keep a
commitment. And that's something I believed in, I hired a coach, my first coach in 2002.
Yeah.
Pat, 21 years later, 20 years later, I'm still with a coach, a business advisor, a mentorship, a mastermind, I have never not had accountability, guardrails in my life. Darrell, why do you need that? Because I'm human. I'm just like you. I will let myself down too and the people that count on me, I will let them down, not because I intended to, but because I didn't mean to, but I let myself drift. Like, I'm human, I'm part of the human experience like everybody else.
Well, and that's true, because of the, you know, we're built as human beings to avoid pain and avoid anything that's fearful. And you know, we have the choice of freedom, and that, that choice doesn't sometimes benefit us. And that's why we need coaches and mentors and you know, accountability partners and such.
And I know it sounds cliche, but it, everything we want is on the other side of fear.
Absolutely.
Everything.
Yes.
You know, going back to what Pressfield says, fear and resistance, it's all the same thing. What we want is on the other side of it, he, he says in his book, and I don't, I'm not familiar with, Henry Fonda, actor, I'm pretty sure he said, still at 71 when he was taking roles, he would vomit before every performance.
Yeah, yeah.
It doesn't go away. It just, we, if you're going to succeed, you know that the work has to get done no matter how you feel.
Yeah, absolutely.
And so that, that's what it takes.
So, you know, let's talk about, so today's entrepreneurs facing a lot of interesting challenges, let's just say, right? So what, what are you feeling or sensing and the, the folks that you're talking with, about the adjustments that they're making in today's world? Because there's a lot of them, right? And yet, there's never been a better time to be an entrepreneur, you see massive amounts of people shifting out
of the workforce. I mean, I just think about, you know, two years ago, people would sit in, in, you know, drive to work an hour and 45 minutes. And COVID said, I ain't doin' that anymore, because they got really comfortable, you know, so, so there's more entrepreneurs coming in to the, to their own, and so what, kind of share with your thoughts on that?
I think there's a couple of things. Yeah, there's a lot going on. I think it's a fantastic opportunity to be an entrepreneur. I think, first thing I think I come to is that though there's more, less is better.
Yeah.
So though there's more things to do, you can do, less is better. Decide what it is that fits your personality style as an entrepreneur. Everybody doesn't need to be online, everybody doesn't need to be on Facebook. Everybody doesn't have to do it. I've got companies in our, in my agency, that they don't have Facebook accounts, but their businesses are growing by millions of dollars. It's about choosing your lane, where you find that your path of least resistance is
most presentable. The other thing that I would say is another little bit of a caveat, a little bit of a cliche, and that's stop majoring in minor things right? I see a lot of people talking about well, I don't have this many followers on my social media page or whatever. My click through rates on my ads or my whatever, the, that's minor stuff. If, I use analogies all the time, so let me go to the game of golf. I play golf. I've been playing golf now for about 30 years. I'm
not that good. You know, good day, I'm going to shoot low 90s, I'm not that good, bad day I'm gonna shoot low, high, high 90s, maybe low hundreds. But my point is, any golfer who gets at, gets to the tee box knows that a hole in one is such a small fraction of an opportunity, there's no sense of even trying to hit a hole, hole in one. Your best shot to hit the ball in the hole is after you get on the green.
Right.
So in marketing and sales, where is the green? Where are the customers most likely to be ready to buy? And I see all these people majoring in minor things, trying to score sales back at the tee box, just
to use an analogy. And so what I have to unwrap with people is where is your customer sitting, where they're most likely to be aware that they've got a problem, in process to figure out how to solve the problem, and ready to lean into the purchase process, whether it's with your company or someone else? And I can't tell you the nine and a half out of 10 people will fuss with me about the answer to that problem and how
we solve it. And I have to unwrap, as a matter of fact Pat, some people will tell me, I am absolutely not going to do it because I've done it and it didn't work. And I'll say, Well, if you're gonna work with us or my team, that's exactly what you're gonna do. And the reason you work with someone else, and it didn't work is because you just weren't working with somebody who knew what the heck they were doing.
So you know, that's so true Darrell. I was, you know, I know you have a podcast. And you know, obviously we do right now, we're talking on it. And I was listening to somebody else. And you know, because I want to grow the things we're doing and, and they said something which ties right into what you said, they said you can have 10,000 followers, and five of them are your potential customers, or you can have 100 followers, and they're all your
potential customers. And it just really struck home with me like you got to decide if you just want followers, that's cool, you know, and, and decide that. So, so let's shift gears. You've been prepared for this. I always ask my guests, what's the absolute best advice that you've ever been given that hopefully, you followed, and if you did, what did you learn?
The best idea that I received, has been, build the business as if you're gonna sell it, whether you want to sell it or not. Now, that is all, it's a big task. But that's the mindset, can govern, how you govern the growth of your business, those services, if you're going to sell it, if you want to sell it or not, to me is probably the best advice I've gotten. And it's so true. Because when you look through that lens, is your decisions.
Yeah, I like that. In fact, I think that's great advice. So you've been prepared for this. We're going to flip it upside down. And we're gonna go Darrell, what's the absolute worst advice that you've ever been given that hopefully you didn't follow? And if you did, what did you learn?
The worst advice I've probably ever been given. Fortunately, I've got great friends, so they don't typically give me bad advice. But some of the worst advice I've heard is, stay in your lane. Stay in your lane. I've adopted mindset that while everybody is playing chess, I'm trying to play checkers. Everybody chases tactics, I'm chasing strategy. It just is fair to say that because someone was doing it, you should do it the way so and so was doing it, that doesn't
mean you should do it. It's terrible, terrible, terrible advice. Every business has a unique set of skill sets and offerings to the market. And what I've done in my career over the last two decades, for sure is find the niche scenarios where none of my competitors were playing. People ask me, Darrell, how do you compete with small companies against big companies. Big companies have blind spots, we just go in where they're not paying attention.
You know, we did this with a company that, you know, 2012, they started working with us. We did it with a company that's in a space, very competitive. They ended up going from four and a half million to 22 million and got bought by the number one competitor in the entire country. Because we snuck in a door and there's always a door Pat, there's always a door.
Yeah, I love that. I love that, great advice. Well, Darrell, you shared a lot of amazing things. And you're gonna give us a thought as we leave, I'm gonna do a little PSA and cleanup here before we go. So ladies and gentlemen, first of all, we so appreciate your support, you can always go to www.thesuccessesacsent.com, subscribe there, you can listen to us at your favorite podcast
source. You can also go for additional information on our services, my services, our coaching, our consulting, the things that we do in the tax credit recovery world, you can go to www.patmancuso.com. And you can find out that information there. So Darrell, let's, let's let's talk. a final thought, you prepared for this. What would you like to share with our listeners before we go?
I think entrepreneurship is one of the greatest gifts that we have available to us in this world today. If you are an entrepreneur listening to this right now, you're in this business to get ideally, more than likely, you signed up for time freedom, financial freedom, freedom of lifestyle and all of those freedoms. And I think my best piece of advice that I'm seeing today that I'm talking a lot about is is go back to that comment of create pathways for people to use their gifts to
help your business grow. Because if they can get what they want, Zig Ziglar, if they get what they want, you'll ultimately get what you want. I don't have anything that's not been said before, but hopefully you're hearing it maybe in a different way.
Right.
Give people what they want, you'll get what you want. And again, think about the unique opportunity for us to bless communities and families by creating jobs.
Absolutely, absolutely. And that's what entrepreneurship, at least from my perspective is all about. So Darrell, thank you so much for your time. I know how valuable it is. You've, you've done an amazing job contributing to our listeners, and they can go to www.themindshiftpodcast.com and listen to you more, and get some more great information as well. So ladies and gentlemen, again, thanks Darrell, appreciate having you here.
Thank you Pat.
My pleasure. And as I end every show, be happy, be healthy, be safe until the next time we talk. Take care everyone.
If you've not yet subscribed, please go to your favorite podcast source and subscribe to The Success Ascent, or simply go to www.thesuccessascent and that's ASCENT .com. TheSuccessAscent.com. Thanks so much for joining us today. We look forward to catching you on the next ascent.