129: How High Achievers Overcome Burnout

from a place of balance. We're not thinking about, you know, yes, this is important, you know, doing all the things for my work or my business, and my relationships are important, my health is important. So how can I balance the two?

Dr. Sharon Grossman with me. She is the author of the international bestseller, The 7E Solution to Burnout: Transforming High Achievers From Exhausted to Extraordinary. She's the founder of the Exhausted to Extraordinary model, and over the past 19 years has helped over 500 physicians, entrepreneurs and executives reshape their thinking and go from fried and frazzled to energized and exhilarated. Dr. Sharon Grossman. Welcome to The MindShift Podcast. How are you today?

tick. And so I decided, You know what, I'm going to start going down this path and really learning this because it's definitely aligned with the kind of person that I am, the way that my mind is. I tend to be very analytical. And also because it will allow me to help people live their best life.

in the door. But over some years of having worked with all different kinds of people anywhere from people who were just really depressed and anxious to people who were really killing it, both in their professional life or in their business, what I came to see is that the people that I enjoy working with the most are the people who are those go getters, because they show up more motivated, and that's actually

how I got into coaching. As I thought, you know, that's like one of the differences that I found, is there's this energetic difference between therapy and coaching. And when people come into coaching, they've got more skin in the game, they're motivated, they're ready to roll. And that's just such a pleasure for me to work with. Because, you know, I come in wanting to help them but I also want them to be able to be engaged in the process.

level. So there's a difference in when you approach somebody for therapy and when you approach somebody for coaching, you're probably in different phases of your life.

with my coaching clients. I want to be able to help people grow and so I feel like not everybody's gonna do that, because we're each wired differently. But if that's how I'm wired, then that could be my contribution to other people and help them absorb some of that, especially the pieces that are pertinent to their situation to help them through it.

to do about it. And that's a lot of the work that I was trained to do as a psychologist is look at, you know, those underlying belief systems and where they came from, and the patterns of behaviors and what fuels those, and I can very easily do something where I bring it all together for somebody. I've got also access to assessments that I used when I was a therapist that really go into a lot of these different areas. So I like to go deep with people so that they have a real

transformational experience. And I bring a lot of the psychology background into this work.

And they seem to believe that achievers or successful people don't struggle with doubt, and fear, and anxiety. And from your perspective, (a) is that true or untrue? And then (b) why is it that as humans, we all go through these same things, but some people do and some people just don't do, the thing that they say they want to do?

There are people who are over thinkers, there are people who are perfectionists, there are people who are people pleasers, and so they're giving everything away. This is the stuff that leads people to burn out. So you have people who are tremendously successful. They know exactly how to make more money or how to do their job really well if they're in corporate America.

But what they don't necessarily know is how to manage the emotions or how to manage relationships with other people or there's something where there's a breakdown in the process and that's how they end up coming to me because, you know, now it's like, Okay, I've been able to do all this stuff, but I'm falling apart, right? Like, my health has deteriorated. My husband's leaving me. I don't have time for my kids. My hair's falling out, like there's something

going wrong. Now, and I say that because literally like, that's one of the things that happens when people burn out.

it. I don't think he remembered the conversation but I said, you know, people come here because they're stressed, like, how would you feel about maybe selling the book at your chiropractic office? Think, like, people stressed, this is like a great resource. So anyway, I said, let me just give it to him to read. So he says to me, you know, I don't usually talk to people about this because you know, you're a

client and everything. But I've been so stressed recently that I started having shingles in my face.

balance. We're not thinking about, you know, yes, this is important, you know, doing all the things for my work, or my business, and my relationships are important. My health is important. So how can I balance the two? How do I not get so burned out in one area that I just can't do anything at that point anymore, right? And we're not thinking like that. We're just kind of focused on what I

need to do right now. And people often say, number one, these are two very common things I hear is, I just need to get through this. So they just feel like they have to push through whatever the project is, or whatever they're currently working on. But then there's always that other project, Darrell, you know, that comes up right after that. And so it becomes just a habit of how you show up. And so it never actually ends, right. And the other thing that I hear often

is, I feel horrible. I feel so bone tired. But I just thought that was normal.

entrepreneur, right? And I'm sure you've heard this from a lot of your clients. But as I describe is exhaustion. But the exhaustion that you feel when got to my 40s I was like, I don't know that it was all worth it. And I started to question why I was 30 something pounds overweight at the time, I think I was weighing 216 pounds, when I'd normally been a 175, 180 kind of person. How did I get to 216? How did I get to, I didn't take maybe three or four vacations in a whole 10 year

window? So I started questioning, what is this really about? And so I think I found myself at that state of burnout and I just began to ask better questions. But I also, one of those questions was How do I really feel about success? How do I feel about accomplishment? And I started to say, there's got to be a better way, which is just a phrase that I've used whenever I get stuck, but I wanted to ask you that question

about burnout. So when someone you're burned out is quite different from the exhaustion gets to that point where they really feel bad, can we actually go a few steps earlier in the process to start identifying when burnout is creeping in? Can you talk about that?

the point. But when I was growing up, we were kind of just middle class. But my mom grew up with a lot less money than that. So she was definitely engaging in the world in a way where it felt more like there was scarcity. So we're always having to kind of look at price tags and be very cautious. It's, I grew up like that. And only now as an adult, and kind of looking back, I was like, Wait, but it's not that we didn't have any

money. It was just like, that's how I was trained to be in the world, because it was my mom's stuff, right? And so then I had to be like, Wait, so then what do I believe about money? And like, how do I feel about money, right, and I had to kind of go back and really relearn this whole relationship and how I

engage and what I think. And I think that sort of experience happens to all of us where we're around another person, especially somebody who's significant in our life, and they say or do something and then we start to integrate that into how we see the world. It really shapes us, all of our experiences shape us. And so that's where you might be finding that if your parent was a perfectionist, you might be a perfectionist, right? Because they trained you to have everything a certain way. And

that was the expectation. But you also have experiences where your parent has these demands on you and then you go against the grain and you go the complete opposite, like 180 of them. And so that shaped how you were very different, right? So there's a reason why we are the way that we are, and it always comes back down to those early life experiences.

You know, they went through a time where money was the Great Depression and all this other stuff and while she was a kid at that time, but that shaped how she taught my mom, right? And so then my mom to your point, was taught through a window of scarcity, right? Because we don't know when we're going to eat again, and we don't know when the next loaf of bread is going to come. Then my mom

though was doing better. As you said, my mom and dad did more in that middle class but there was always the same conversation, like you described. What this gentleman described was that those generations, that sort of the wiring came through the exposure to what we saw in the world at that time. So to the point of what you were just saying, I remember to the point where I used to not buy certain things at the grocery store, even though I had all the economic means, if they weren't

on sale. And I'm not saying some of that's not prudent, you know, we're not saying be frivolous, but I had to uncondition myself to the fact that it is okay to buy it if it's not on sale, right?

going, you said it earlier? Once we're done with this project, there's another project. But can you distinguish OCD from over achievement? I don't know if that's a good question or not, but I'm trying to get my hands around that one.

who ruminate. And so they're having these thoughts that just, they can't turn their mind off, right? They're constantly thinking about them. And then from a compulsive perspective, that's really about not your thoughts, but more your behaviors and something that you have to do in order to alleviate the anxiety. So essentially, what we're saying is both of these methods, whether you're overthinking or you're overdoing, they're a compensatory solution for having

anxiety. And the idea is that, you know, if you think about like, what is the solution? If you do have bonafide OCD, it's to learn to manage your anxiety in other ways.

anxiety. So remember, we talked earlier about it's always good to solve the root of the issue, the anxiety that you feel right now is just a symptom of something bigger. And so we need to really get to like, why do you feel so anxious? And one of the things that I've found is that anxiety often is about feeling like there's a lack of control. And OCD is that attempt to get control over something external, because you feel out of control.

circumstance or other people. So that's really an invitation to do some work on emotional intelligence, which is actually one of the main, I think, skills that people would benefit from when it comes to burnout prevention, and also recovery, because it helps them to better understand, what are the thoughts that I'm having that are causing me to feel anxious or that are causing me to feel stressed, because stress is really about perception. So it's that something is happening

outside of you. And you have some sort of idea about that, that creates that stress within you. It might be a thought like, I can't handle this, this is too much for me, and then you become stressed out. So it's again about when you understand these relationships and you're able to come in with a strategy or a way to regulate yourself, then you avoid a lot of the issue.

Because sometimes I wrestle with the idea that I'm kind of obsessive about certain things, in a way that, I don't think they're bad, but I know that they take me to a place of burnout, sometimes. Where I could just let it go. So I don't know if you have a thought on that.

somebody to burn out. So I think that doing all the things that you just mentioned, can be helpful to a point. If you cross the threshold where you're starting to do too much, and then you're really burning out, then it's an invitation for you to reassess. What are the biggest priorities? Why am I doing this? And what would happen if I didn't do it?

And I really, probably don't need to do this, or I can outsource this or, you know, there's usually some other thing that answers the need there. But it just gives you more clarity.

It is rooted in my experience, and that is, step one in the process is whenever we're facing something is to make peace with the facts, right? The facts are the facts. And at this point, we can't change them. A lot of times, we're spending all of our energy trying to change something that is, whereas our next step is to make a decision about what it is we can do going forward. So that's step two, which is making a decision about what we're going to move going

forward. And I do understand that people get caught in that chasm between step one and step two. And that's where a lot of times we can start to do the negative self talk, we can start to talk ourselves into a belief pattern that, you know, I call it the woe is me, or I'll never get myself out of this or things like this always happen to me. I really believe that that affects people in some way. I want to ask you, though, about self talk, and that very simple, two

word phrase. How do you see self talk in perspective, to the way we think and behave and react and respond, not just as achievers or entrepreneurs, but as just humans?

these things. And so many of my clients actually have this very difficult time having self compassion, because they're constantly beating themselves up. And I'll give an example. Like, I was working with this physician, and she did something really great. And instead of giving herself credit and being like, oh, pat on the back, that was awesome. She was like, basically cursing herself out for not having done it sooner.

speaking to me. Can you give them a couple of practical tips? We obviously can't take 'em through a whole coaching session with them right now. But give them a couple of practical tips that they can take away.

Right. And so that's an important reminder for us that we take better care of our phones than we do of ourselves. So if you're feeling that, I would say like, first, it's really about tuning in on a regular basis. How am I feeling? What do I need? Because so much of the time, we're externally focused on the to do list and what other people want from us, and on the quality of the work

that we're doing. But we need to spend more time asking questions that help us reflect on where we are, and what do we need, and our needs change from day to day, and from moment to moment. So it's not like I always do this thing. But it's great to have like certain things in place. Like if you have just the time carved out for exercise, and for breathing, like all of those things are great. But it's also about like, what do I need

in this moment? Because you just never know what is going to come up that maybe stresses you out. That was unexpected. You know, so I think there's like the things that you do on a regular basis to make sure that you are

able to absorb stress. But then there's also like now that I've absorbed a whole bunch of stress, because today was a really crummy day at work or what have you, or I just had this argument with my spouse, what am I going to do to release that stress, and you have to have a list of things that you can go to because one thing that maybe helped you yesterday may not be able to help you today, so you, you want to be able to say okay, well, that didn't work, let me try the next thing,

until you find something that actually works for you.

that sounds. And I realized that I had to begin, and I love the way one of my coaches puts it, and that is, before you open yourself to other people's agendas, you've got to take care of yourself. And so for me that's over the last decade or so it's gone from a half hour to two hours of my own personal time in the morning. What does

that look like? Some days, it looks like meditation, reading scripture, yoga type stretching routine, it could be reading a book, but it's giving myself space before the demands of other people. And those other people work for me, need me to show up for me, right? They're all part of my team. But it's that whole idea of being

intentional. And I think that's what I'm hearing you say is be intentional about what is it that will help you release and rebalance from those stressful situations, because they're actually inevitable, right? We just don't grow without stress. Like there's nothing good in life that happens without some level of stress. Babies aren't born without stress. I'm celebrating the birth of my grandson. So I've never had a

child. But you know, there's a painful stress process when that life is being birthed into the world. So Dr. Sharon Grossman, we could go on and on and on. I just want to thank you for being here. Where can people find you and connect with you to hear more from you?

And once you download that, I'll be sending you some follow up emails just to see, you know, how you're doing and maybe there's a way for me to be able to help in some other ways. So I'm always happy to have those conversations, my door's always open. And it's just been such a pleasure and an honor to talk to you, Darrell. And hopefully we'll have you on Decode Your Burnout, so we can have you share your burnout journey.

psychological journey. It's something that I've been fascinated, again over the last decade, maybe 15 years, I just started noticing patterns as I was evolving as an entrepreneur, as a parent as a, an achiever, quote, unquote, or whatever. And it was just, I didn't take the time to go back and get the clinical proof of some of the things that I have intuitively felt. And so I was really excited to have this

conversation with you. And you've certainly validated some of my thoughts, and then, of course, opened my eyes to so many other things that and by the way, I'm not trying to pretend to be a psychologist, I just am glad to know that some of my intuition was in the right path with clinical thoughts. So Dr. Grossman, I always like to ask my guests a final question. And that is, if for some reason, this was your last day on this planet, what would you want everyone to remember you for?

conversation. And I'm always about giving people insight into themselves so that they can feel empowered to make the positive changes they want for their lives. So that's really what I'm so passionate about.