Where before it was very much like, well, this is my job, this is what I'm supposed to do. Like, I'm just going to suffer in silence, I'm going to be the martyr, I'm going to be the one that's annoyed every day because I'm overloaded. Everybody suffers. Right, but I was just so afraid of giving it up and I don't know if it was control or if it was pride, it's probably all those things, recognizing I have a partner for a reason. Like they
are my partner. They are my partner in all things, just like a marriage. We literally have a marriage. They are my partner in all things. And she needs to be able to take that and I need to be able to say what I need and trust that she's going to take it and she's going to take care of me.
This is The MindShift Podcast where we share real stories, real strategies, that will help you find real success. This is the place to hear from people just like you who have taken their ideas, goals and dreams from a point of inspiration to realization or when life knocked them down, from a point of breakdown to breakthrough. I'm your host, Darrell Evans. Let's get started with today's episode.
Hey, my friend. Welcome back to another episode of The MindShift Podcast. I'm your host Darrell Evans and I want to thank you in advance for taking some time out to spend it here with us today on this show. If this is your first time here and you enjoy today's show, I would encourage you to hit the follow or subscribe button wherever you're listening so you never miss an episode. This conversation today is with Courtney Hopper and Dana
Cadwell. They are a dynamic, duo sister, entrepreneur powerhouse. They've been in business for about 14 years. And they've built multiple businesses, not just one. It's hard enough to build one business online or offline or in any niche. They've built multiple businesses which we're going to dive in today and they're based out of the Raleigh, North Carolina area. Let's talk about their businesses. The Bradford Wedding and Event Venue, C&D Events, Bushel and Peck Floral Design.
Now they run Anthem House Events and they also are the hosts of their own podcast called Hustle and Gather. Starting off from an ordinary beginning, like most of us, they paved their way through sheer grit and tenacity. And let me tell you, if you've got this many successful businesses in 14 years, there's a lot of that, and I'm looking forward to having that conversation. But they splash that in with a bit of coffee and therapy along the
way to have some sanity. They say that they're on a mission to inspire others to take big leaps, dream big dreams and create amazing teams that grow profits, with enjoyable, but productive cultures, inside businesses. Courtney and Dana, let's go. Welcome to The MindShift Podcast.
Thanks so much for having us.
Thank you so much.
I was excited to have this conversation, when I saw your details come through because (a) two women entrepreneurs powerhouse, you're both sisters, which is an interesting dynamic. And you don't just have one business, as I just mentioned. You have multiple businesses. And, one other thing because I come from a marketing and sales background, is that you've done it all in one major niche category. Right? And so some would say, maybe they had shiny
object syndrome. No. There's obviously something that you saw within this world and something tells me you've got a passion story behind this particular world that you live in. So welcome to the show. And give us the backstory. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Yeah, so obviously Courtney, Dana, sisters. We met at the hospital that Dana was born at.
Here we go.
Dana, she's the ounger one, as she likes to point out. Although one day someone did ask if she was my mother and it was like the shining moment of my life.
And then someone asked me if I was her mother.
This was years later, I was like, What the hell. But anyway, I know. Oh, we're all back to square one right now so we've known each other for a long time but our business story really started when we were looking for an event venue for Dana to get married at. We both got married very young, but we were early 20s. And then you need a space to hold what 200 plus people because everyone's your friend at that point. And there was really no space in North Carolina besides a ball firm.
But I really loved it that my budget . . .
The budget, it wasn't like a tent in the backyard. And that is not the case any longer. But we're like, you know what would be fun is opening an event venue. I would kind of hit these aesthetics and . . . Alex, he sketched it on a napkin. We were at Bare Rock Cafe.
Yes.
Yeah. They don't exist any more.
Recipes.
On a napkin, it looks very much like a warehouse.
Yeah it was like a square.
Was it a square?
Yeah, it was a square.
And I told Dana like we're going to do this but we really know nothing about weddings besides planning our own. So let's become event planners as a form of market research. This is how we're going to get to build the best venues. We're going to work in all these other venues, gonna figure out what works and what doesn't work. And we're going to compile all this information and we will build a room.
Yeah, and I should preface this with is we're both math and science backgrounds. I have a BS in chemistry and math and Courtney has a BS in biology and a minor in Chem.
I see the perfect alliance.
So we were just like, you know, and we were also very conscious and very nervous that we wanted to make sure we were making the right steps, right, making the right moves. We were like, no, we're gonna pause the stream and we're gonna do some market research. We're gonna like, get the data. Like, what does the market actually need around here? And then, you know. And then I went on my merry way, cos you know, me and Courtney shoot the shit all the time and don't do anything about it.
Right.
And then the next day, she calls me and she's like, my friend, Megan, you know, Megan from our childhood is getting married, and I called her and told her we're gonna plan her wedding, you know, so we're gonna start C&D Events. And I was like, okay.
So we're really doing this.
Great.
We're doing it.
Yeah.
That's funny.
And we did it.
We planned that wedding.
And another couple for free
And realized we liked it.
We're like, all right, for free, okay, I guess.
Yes.
And so we advertised on Craigslist.
Yes,
For our first gig.
I love it.
We charged $250. It was like 100 miles from here, where we were literally. It was so far away. And it was like the hardest $250 I've ever earned in my life.
Wow.
But that particular event was a catering friend of ours, first event as well. And so it's our first, his first. And it wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But we were a good team.
We were a good team.
He started recommending us and C&D Events And we just kind of took it off from there. We is born.
Yeah. were still teaching in 2010. I was able to take a step back from teaching and just pursue this full time. We were kind of at that point, because we'd been open for about three years solidly. And we're at that weird middle point where you're like, this is more than a hobby. Either I need to scale it back and continue it to be a hobby, or we need to like jump in, like full feet, like and actually do it. And so I told Courtney, I was like, let me, you know, I
had, just had my first kid. And I was like, you know, I was in a financial place where I could stay home. And I was like, you know, let's try this. Like, let's really put all our eggs in this basket and see if we can do it. And I think we went from like 12 weddings that year. Like 37 weddings that year and the ball started rolling.
Yeah.
And then you know, we did that. We added a couple like I guess contract cleaners. And then in 2011, Courtney was like, hey, so we have this money in the bank. And I think we should buy some land for the venue.
Yeah, let's talk about the venue thing.
Okay. I was like, All right.
Yeah.
All great stories, and with Courtney, liked dragging me along. And we did, we found this perfect piece of land. It was like the end of the recession so no one was buying anything, because no one was lending any money. And we were able to, in our same conservative way, put a year due diligence on this property for like $1000. So we could rezone it, get it, see if it perks, see if it could just do everything we wanted it to do. It got approved and it did. Like literally like all the things
and . . .
Which is so bizarre, like all these things just started clicking in place, which is just not our normal story.
I'll go from that point.
Yeah.
But like, it was like one of those things where, you know, I don't necessarily believe in like the wooness of stuff but like, it just felt like there were all these doors, and there was the universe was telling us that this is it.
The universe is bringing her along, don't worry, she will believe.
I do believe in all of that a little bit.
Right. Right.
Anyway, so it worked out fine.
I love it.
It took us about, we got approved, and it took us about another six months to get financing and then we started construction and it was and this is where it got really hard, we were supposed to get a bank loan in the middle of it and the bank loan went away. Like they just
Just no one was taking us on.
They were just really afraid of it. So we were halfway built, and we ran out of money and so we like cashed out everything we had, like everything we owned, every retirement account. We maxed out every single credit card, I mean, we would go to Home Depot and Lowe's, and you'd have like $30 worth of stuff. And you'd be like try this credit card and it would decline. Try this credit card, it declined. $5 on here, $15 on here, and then I have $5 in quarters.
Don't tell me! If you don't know what they're just talking about right now, you're not a real entrepreneur. If you haven't done what she just said, that's balling out and believing in your dream. I just want to kind of pause real quick because I want more of this story. But a couple things I want to jump in and talk about really quick. You drew a line in the sand and said it's either going to be a hobby, or it's going to be a business.
And the interesting . . . I just want to stop right there really quick because I love the idea that Hey, let's just plan our stuff. We don't want to do it at the place that's available. Let's figure out how to do this better. And then all of a sudden, Okay, let's start it as a business but it's really a hobby. You said you were teaching and . . . but you went from 12 to 37 is what I think I heard? The mental shift at that moment. Talk a little bit about that because this is The
MindShift Podcast, right? And so at some point you had to make a decision. But a lot of times people make a decision, but they're not committed to the decision. Talk a little bit about the decision thought process. And what changed in your mind at that moment.
I honestly think it was exhaustion. And it sounds odd to think about it, but like, right, like being a teacher, and then also trying.
We were both teachers at this time.
Yeah, I was a middle school science teacher, Dana was high school.
It was just too much. And I remember my husband, he looked at me, and he's like, you're gone Monday through Friday at work, you know, and you're busting your butt trying to do well at that job. And then you're gone every single weekend, it feels like, you know. And I personally felt like I was doing things halfway, like I wasn't being the planner that I wanted to be. And we're at this point, you're building
relationships. And when you're talking about an event, it's a team, I mean, you live and die by your team, like you're in the trenches together, you, those relationships are stronger than lifelong relationships, because you've been through some hell together, right. And I felt like I was letting my team down in a lot of ways. And it wasn't the
person that I wanted to be. And so it was like, okay, either, I'm gonna put all my energy and effort into this and be the best that I think that we could be and be proud of my name, like, be proud of C&D Events. Like when I introduced myself, I want to feel that pride, like because my name supersedes me in a great way, not in a like, Oh, don't say Da Vinci and others just together, like Les and they, you know, like all these things that would go through my mind. And then I really loved it. I
really, really loved it. And I was like, this is more what I want to do, than teach. At this point, I was getting burnt out on teaching, even though I'd only done it for three or four years. Like I was . . . the politics were getting to me, the classroom was getting harder, and, and I realized it wasn't my path. It wasn't what I was supposed to do. Like, this was my path. And so I just needed to make a way for that.
Yeah. Courtney, what was your thought process?
For me, it was literally just pure belief. Like I always, always, always believed in it. Like, I knew but if we were to go down like, we could do anything, like I believed it then. I believe it now. I believed it in the middle, and we had no money. I believed in the lows line, you know,
One of these is gonna go through.
I'm gonna tell you my favorite story about Lowe's, it's similar, but not that one. It was just pure belief. So when Dana was like, hey, like, I can step back, and I can do like some of the admin, it didn't mean that we didn't do less right at that stage. In streamlining some processes, I really do the marketing, like all of those things, that thank God that time was like low fidelity, like it was not nearly the pressure that it is today with like Instagram, and
Facebook and all that. Like it was just just kind of starting at that point, you know. She was able to put that time in and that effort, and really get it legitimized. And I just knew we could do it. Like, I knew that we had something together, and I knew that the product was gonna be great. And I knew it was gonna be hard, because I was still teaching at that time. And at that point, I had two kids, right? So it's just a lot of just buckling down and juggling and really leveraging
relationships too. Like with spouses and each other and whatnot to know that in the end, it was going to be worth it. Just having that sheer belief. I think you have to believe in it. If you're gonna go through those times.
No, you're right. I mean, so (a) I love what you said, is, there was an exhaustion factor, right? You can't be all things in all places. And you realized, you know, Dana, you said, I was stretched over here, and I'm stretched over there. And there's one thing you didn't say, but it's obviously an
unsaid thing. Because when you're an entrepreneur, and you're holding down a full time job, with responsibilities, I mean, let's be clear, being a teacher is a highly critical thing, you got these kids, and they're, they're counting on you. And then you've got this other group of people that are counting on you in a totally different way. So there's not just physical exhaustion, there's mental exhaustion, right? And then there's the familiar side of it, right? You've got a family that you're
growing. And so there's commitments on all sides. And so you just said, Hey, we're gonna have to buckle this down and go, and I just want to talk really quick. What do you think was the catalyst for the 3X in customer acquisition that year? What did you do differently in the world of marketing,
A lot of networking.
A lot of networking, it was just getting my face in front of people. It was bringing coffee to avenues, it was just planning strategic meetings. We also changed a lot about how, like, we were getting decent inquiries. We weren't clenching the client, like we weren't selling ourselves well. So it was a lot of like, practicing being faster on the response. You know, one of the things we learned about hospitality is time response is really important and the client
really values that. So being able to be more quick with that, being able to provide a better customer experience. And I felt really confident saying this is what I do. Like it's not like oh, I'm a teacher too, or like it changed my seriousness of it, which I think portrayed in front of the client. So I think that was a big thing. But the biggest thing was we just really really, really went after our relationships and we like just really poured into them and had the time to do it.
Nice. So, so you buy the land, you get it approved. You get it rezoned. Now what?
C&D is the whole thing at this point, right?
Yeah, like we have a couple of planners that work for us, like we're still doing like, I think the year that we've done, I think I had 27, Dana had like 29 weddings.
Yeah.
Like, we've divided and conquered. We had maybe 40 floral events that we were doing too at the same time, like.
It was just like being an animal.
Craziest year, right?
How many people are on your team at this time?
We just, we just had two contract employees for C&D. So we were doing all the florals and the contract employees would do, umm, they would do some of their own, but they mostly assisted us. Like we just had to consistent assistance. Yeah.
So you're still lean. You're still really running lean?
Oh, very lean. We had no money. I mean, literally. Everything. Everything was going back into the business.
Right back into the business. Yeah. So you know, that's another interesting part. So right now you're about six years in?
Yeah, six or seven? Yeah. You're wanting a new business, though.
Yeah, you're wanting a new business seven years in the other business. And I want people to just get this. There's a lot of, sort of, if you look around Instagram, if you look around, Tik Tok, you can look around Facebook, everyone's sensationalizing how easy it is to be successful in business. What you just said is, if you did 40, almost 50 weddings in that year, while you're opening a new property, and you've got the floral business, you've got two
contractors. I mean, you're still not heavily, heavily profitable. And a lot of people just don't get it. That's what you have to do to build something. Just because you got a bunch of customers doesn't mean you get to, you know, fly private jets and do all this other stuff. So I want people to pay attention to this because this is the real story of growing a business. You're seven years in on one, your one in another one plus the floral
design. We didn't even talk about when that actually started but I'm assuming if you're running wedding events that started right at the same time.
Similar time. A few years in, after.
Yeah, yeah. So okay, I just got to ask this. Because whenever you pick a niche, what do you love about the niche today? You're 14 years later. You're still a powerhouse in that niche? What do you love about the niche now, that keeps you still fired up about this specific industry?
Well, I think even if you would have asked me and Dana as a team, it's very different than what I'm gonna say now, but going through the pandemic with these people, I feel like it's the community. I certainly love the clients, I think that when you are a part of someone's, one of someone's happiest days, it's very joyful and that's wonderful. But really what it is, is you are surrounded by some of the most creative, kindest, most innovative people and you are constantly inspired every single
day. And there is something very fulfilling about that where you don't feel stagnant. I mean, certainly you go through times like that, but you just have to look outside your door, do an event with somebody, have a conversation with a creative and you're just like, Alright, I'm ready to go. I got my juju back. Like, I'm great. So the community is 100% what keeps me in it. I mean, it brings me to
tears sometimes. I know that sounds super cheesy, but like being around these people, and after going through the pandemic with them, and just that camaraderie and just, you know, just that community, it's worth more than anything else in this job.
Yeah.
Yep, I would definitely second that. You work with people and then you be with these people that you would go on vacation with these people. Like, I would share hotel rooms with these people. Like we're all just so close,
Yeah. You know, I think that's really important you know? because you're not just in it for the money. You are getting a fulfillment out of it, by being a part of these people's day. But you guys get to participate in this joyous occasion. And I get it, there's got to be a ton of gratification and fulfillment in that. So I want to ask you about the sister-business-partner dynamic. And let me start with Courtney. Courtney, what's one thing that Dana does that just gets on your last damn nerve.
Ah, Dana has very little chill. Like, very little. Like, she cannot have fast anything. Like she has to like polar everything. I don't care what it is, it has to be that way. And it's like the best thing about her, it is like the most annoying thing about her at the same time. Now, she's like, my favorite vacation partner, like because she won't have fast that either, right. Like, she's on vacation like she is all out.
All out. All locked in.
Shes's the party to the fun to the whatever. But to put that in a business setting, it's like sometimes like okay, let's like, let's take a breather here, take a little chill pill. And I've told her this before and it's taken years to like get to this point, right? Is because she's my business partner, she makes me a better business owner as well because sometimes I have a little too much chill and there's times that I do think that, not that she's like my
boss or . . . but I am accountable to her just like she's accountable to me that sometimes do something or go above and beyond because I know I'm gonna have to answer for it from accountable to Dana and this is not up to Dana standards. Even though I may have been okay with it, you know what I mean?
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Dana, your sister, her best attributes that she brings to your partnership and
I think she's a great visionary. I think she is to your businesses. really great at setting the tone and the direction that our company can go in. Because, you know, I get stuck a lot. Like, in this moment, this time, and I can't see the forest for the trees 98% of the time, like, I can just dwell and like, the crap that's happening right now.
And, and she has a really great ability to look into the future and recognize, like, yeah, we're stuck here but this is where we're gonna go, this is where we should be. And then being able to really vision cast for, like, where she sees us going. And she's definitely a much more optimistic person, which is, you know, necessary, I believe. My pessimistic attitude is design. But I think in that way, she really leads our company really, really well.
Nice, very nice. What's the one thing she does it gets on your last nerve.
She is like technology illiterate, and it drives me bananas. It just drives me crazy. I mean, like . . .
It's literally not lack of effort.
I know. But it's like, can't figure out a Google Calendar or like, anything. She tries really hard. Like, sometimes I just can't deal.
Got it, got it.
She did spend like hours one day fixing my Google Calendar, on my phone in my computer, so she could send me invites, and I would actually show up.
Gotcha. How has marketing your business changed? You made a small comment earlier. But you started in, when times were simpler, right? It started with Craigslist, networking. How has marketing and growing your businesses changed for you and what are you doing strategically differently today than you were back then. Obviously, the podcast may be part of that, but talk a little bit about that.
I would have never envisioned that, and it sounds just ridiculous saying out loud, that we would have had a full time salary person that does just our marketing, for our brands. Literally, that's her job is marketing, and navigating social media and making sure
that we're marketed well. Like that just seemed like such a small part of our business starting, like, we advertised in a couple of magazines, and we were going to buy the increased presence on the not and that was the end of our marketing strategy. And it's just so nuanced, and so ever changing that, it's way, obviously I can't even get my Google Calendar to work. So it's way beyond my mental capacity.
It's above your paygrade.
It's above my paygrade, like 100%, that I don't have a personal Facebook. Like, I just don't subscribe to it in general, but you have to as a business, because it's not even about who does business the best. I think there is a part of it, that's there. But now it's like who markets it the best. Who creates the best illusion?
Yeah, and I would like to say that our, in terms of like our marketing plan, it hasn't changed to very much and from the very beginning, where we knew the only way we could sell our company was us, Like we could sell it the best because we believed in it the most. And I think that and the middle years, we were like raising families. So we kind of disappeared off that networking scene a little bit. And we're like, Hey, we're just gonna entertain into Instagram or
Instagram every single day. This is like before stories and all that stuff. And I think we got back to now like, we're like, okay, we need to be networking. Like we're very involved in our local, like wedding chapters and stuff like that. And social media is important but we understand that's not our wheelhouse. That is not what we are good at, it is not where we shine. And we're going to spend more time and energy and effort and do it like not half as well as if we just hired somebody to
take this job on. So it's still understanding our strengths and our weaknesses, like where we feel like we can be successful and what is our time worth? And for us, our time is worth being the face of certain things and going in and still having those coffees and still being, you know, visible as the CEOs of these companies?
Yeah, no, I think your perspective is really good. (a) lot of people understand that, you know, and by the way, I've worked with tons of companies that are super successful, and their owners or founders or CEOs, they only have a Facebook account for one reason, and one reason only, and that's so that we can run ads. That's it, that's the only purpose of them having the account is because they can't make us an admin otherwise. And so I think that's important that you decided, hey, this is not my
skill set. It does need to be done. It is the new modern era of marketing. But I certainly don't have the skill set to do it. If I can't work my Google Calendar, Courtney says, then the last thing you want me to be doing is trying to operate Instagram. Right? And you know, you're a visionary. So I get it. Sometimes when you're a visionary it's hard to come down to the ground level and do all things. There are certain things that I know, as a visionary, you probably do better than Dana.
And then Dana has these things qnd as much as you may not call yourself a visionary, there are certain things that you are the best way that you show up. So you did the right thing by putting someone in place and I know you've got a number of people on your team today. I want to talk about the new venture, right? I think the newest venture, is it Anthem House?
Yeah. Well, it has a really interesting story to it. So in 2019, me and Courtney really decided to take a step back from actually planning events in the Collective because we were still planning weddings, and a lot of that was born from the Bradford was, at this point doing, you know, 90 weddings. And you know, the Collective was doing between 90 and 90 and 100 weddings. And we just felt like we need to be better managers if we couldn't show what our people
needed us to. And so we're like, Okay, we're gonna take a step back. Well, one of our planners, our very first hire that we ever hired, came to us and said, I really want to open up a new brand, I want it to be luxury, I want to do high end weddings and I feel like under our current brand, it's just hard to separate it. It's like, make a new name for it. And she came to us, she pitched this idea. And we basically bought into it. We're not the face of that company, necessarily. It's still
under our umbrella. But I think the cool thing about it in general is that we, (1) saw how much this person helped grow the Collective and she was integral in the success story that we are today. And it's, it was a way for us to give back to her to where she felt like, because she was feeling very stagnant. Like she hit this plateau. This was a way for her to have a hand in entrepreneurship, but also to really grow more as, not just a planner, but as a person in
general. And so it's been a really interesting journey, I would say. I wouldn't say it's been like, super easy. There's been a lot of like, bumps in the road. And like kind of training someone to have that entrepreneurial mindset in a way and understanding members and all that stuff. But it's been very rewarding for us to be able to do that for somebody that has been with us for so long.
It's also like, it's very clear how much of like before Dana and I even have a conversation, the majority of time we're already halfway there. Like there's so much that's like, unspoken, that we're just on the same page, because we've been on this page for so long that when you're trying to convey that to somebody else, like why doesn't she get that? Like why is that not understood? This seems like a given, you know, and it's
actually not. That's been super revealing and enlightening for us, you know?
Yeah. That's awesome. How do you guys support each other when things aren't going well? We talked, you know, I have to say, maybe have a story before that. Like, there's about this idea of breakdown to breakthrough. You've probably have had more than anyone would share to count. Beyond the I mean, if anyone can understand swiping credit cards and hoping one's going to work . . . a story. Oh, let's do that.
Like, there's a story before you talk about that, is again, we had no money. And we were very judicious with like, what we bought and what we returned. And I remember it was like oh, like 11 o'clock at night, maybe 10.30. We needed something at Lowe's, we had no money. So we guarded up all of the returns so that we could return that time like right before, right before Lowe's closed. We came up, plastered them on the counter and this guy just stares at us. We had no
receipts. Nothing. And he is like gingerly going into the bucket, like pulling out these things. Like, we can't accept that. What happens . . . This is from Home Depot. Just ring up and return what you can return. I need the money. And we're just gonna spend it again at your store. Right? I know. But we did it a couple times. And you can only return so much with your credit, with your ID. So it's like, Hey, I did the last one.
Like they won't take it. You have to go and use your ID to get this money back because I've used it too many times. It was my favorite story, though. Just the pure judgment of that guy, like what?!
So you know, I respect that even more, right? I've got a story, that little scattered in today's show. It just took me back to 1998. It's funny and laughable today. I'm sure in the moment, there were different emotions going on while you're in that store because there's all sorts of maybe fear, angst, anxiety, embarrassment, whatever the case may be, you probably felt a
little bit of all of those. And it's funny today, because you've made it through and you were doing what needed to be done to get the next project done, right? And a lot of times people aren't willing to do what it takes. We talk about it, do whatever it takes. Well, what does that really mean? That's what it means. If you're listening to this right now, we're not saying that you should hurry up and go to Lowe's and return everything you've ever
bought. Right? But when the chips are on the line, and your reputation's on the line, I heard Dana say it earlier. My name and my word is everything. So if I'm going to put my name on it, we're gonna figure out how to get it done. This is what the tenacity means, right? I did a survey. And I'm certainly not indicative of every entrepreneur. But I put it on my Instagram a long time ago, I put on my Twitter and my LinkedIn at the same time. I let it run for
a week. The number one characteristic of successful entrepreneurs that came out of it was tenacity. The number one, across all three platforms. And so what does that really mean? It means being able to get knocked the heck down and get the heck back up, even though you're still injured. Right? You know, Courtney said, which is I always believe we're going to figure it out. Like always, like she said, always. Not sometimes, always. So anyway, I could go off on the psychology of that.
First of all, you're sisters, there's the sister dynamic. There's the business dynamic. And now you've done it for 14 years. I don't know what the statistics are, but I know they're not as high as most people think, to be in business with your family member and to be this successful this long. And yeah, we hear these things about family businesses and all this stuff, but it's not as many as you think. So congratulations on that. I want to ask you guys a little bit about the mental
health side of it, right? You guys talk about therapy and coffee? So I'm a coffee fan myself. How do you guys stay on the mental side, we can get tie it into the breakdowns and how do you guys support each other when things like that, but I think it's kind of the same talk.
I think honesty, transparency is really important part of our story. And people find this entertaining, but it was not entertaining at the time. You know, in the middle of the Bradford, there was a lot of hurt feelings, there was a lot of emotions, there's a lot of tension, there's a lot of lost trust between our, ourselves. And a lot of that really had to do with I think just the stress, the lack of sleep, the lack of money, it was just really hard.
And we actually went to couples therapy to get down to like the root of why we're feeling what we were feeling. Get back to like, an intention reset, you know, and understanding where we had hurt each other along the way. Because it was really important that relationship, that it didn't just become a business relationship, because, you know, we had been best friends our entire life. And it was really hard to be in a place where we didn't like each other.
It was foreign. So you know, it was really important for us to get back to there. So I think, for us, it was just really being honest with where we are, being transparent. And we have not been perfect. Yeah, we've had like massive, huge fights, we've said things we shouldn't have said, we've done things we shouldn't have done. And I think, and sometimes it It blows over in a day. Sometimes it goes
over a couple of months. I mean, sometimes, you know, there's I can tell you certain years where there were really hard years on our relationship that I doubted its survival. But I think at the end of the day, it's how much do you want it? And how much is the relationship worth to you? And I think Courtney, honestly, is better, yeah, is better at it than me. Like I'm very much like burn it all down to the ground. Like, burn it. I'm done. Like . . .
I know what you want to say, I know what you want to say. You can let it go. You can let the out ball go. I know what you want to say.
Like I just, and Courtney's not that way. She's very much like, I'm more important to her than anything else. So there is probably an inequity in that, but it's hard. But I think you can jump in here, I guess.
I think I mean, relationships are hard. Like even in like the easiest mess of circumstances, you at some, you know, financial stress and physical stress. I mean, literally, like in the middle of all that I had a baby that we weren't expecting, right? It was just a gift from God, but at the same time, really, really hard on a relationship. And we were working and we would put the kids down at 10. And we would go dig holes and plant trees till
like 2am in the morning. So I mean, there was like so many things that went into like this particular blow up, but just in general, I think it's, no-one goes into business with their family or sister or anybody to like have hurt feelings, to take advantage or to you know, damage a relationship, right? Everyone has these really great intentions. And I think getting back to those intentions and then also really knowing your
partner. For me personally, like I can feel Dana's energy and emotion when, whether it's directed at me or not directed at me or whether things are going well or not going well. It's like if someone's like, I need Dana to, like nope Dana's not going to. Right? Because I know Dana. Like Dana is a yes person, she will say yes, even when she should say no, over and
over and over again. And when you're making other decisions, like I remember when Dana was saying, like, Hey, I'm thinking of running for mace president, I was like, that's a business decision, right? Like it's going to take away from the business, I'm going to make sure that I that I was also on the board at the time, I'm going to do the least needy position on that board, right, because I at
The least needy.
Because I'm gonna have to, right. I'm gonna have to fill in where you can't fill in. So you gonna have to step it up. So making sure that you are not unintentionally
Yeah. And I think for us, like, if you were to overloading yourself. And like keeping those things balanced, talk about like a breakthrough moment in our, in our whether it's inside a business, outside of business, whether it's a particular hard family time, right? All of those things partnership, is we had these very clearly defined roles. come into play with your bandwidth. And I think keeping those things balanced and having an understanding of where the Like, where I'm going to take
care of this. Like, this is who other person is really helped mitigate a lot of those feelings and emotions that can cloud actual facts. I am. This is what I'm good at and there came a point and I don't know why but it was like you just, that was just what it was. And we have gotten so good at every year rebalancing it. Like, maybe last year, I was in charge of managing maintenance,
And everybody suffers. but you know, based on what my loads looking like, that doesn't make sense. And that's not an idea or maybe I wasn't very successful at or whatever the case may be. We're going to rebalance this role. So being able to consistently have the conversations, saying I'm overloaded right now, and I feel like you're not, so therefore I need you to take this piece off
Right. But I was just so afraid of giving it up of my plate, where before, it was very much like, well, this and I don't know if it was control, if it was pride, it's probably all those things. Recognizing I have a partner for is my job, this is what I'm supposed to do, like, I'm just a reason. Like they are my partner. They are my partner in all things, just like a marriage, we literally have a marriage, they are my partner in
all things. And she needs to be going to suffer in silence, I'm going to be the martyr, I'm able to take that and I need to be able to say what I need and going to be the one that's annoyed every day because I'm overloaded. trust that she's going to take it and she's going to take care of me. And you know, it works both ways.
You just re-emphasized this, is whether you're sisters or not sisters, you're in business together. That's a partnership in and of itself. The worth of your relationship, the transparency and the reality is there isn't a playbook for what you guys are pulling off, right? What I think I heard underneath it is, we're sisters first. And I just love that connection and the fact that you know, Courtney, you can feel when Dana's off and, and I know that in my business
partnerships, you can! And it's okay to honor that feeling and say, Hey, what's going on here, and you guys have just figured out how to deal with it moment by moment. In the MindShift world that I spend time coaching in, I always say that the facts are the facts. Right? The facts are the facts. Let's make peace with the facts, the baby's coming. Unexpected, unexpected.
Unexpected.
Unexpected. Let's deal with the facts. And now let's make new decisions about the facts. Right? What are we going to do from here forward, and then let's put together a plan qnd that's going to take collaboration and some thinking through. And then the only thing that matters after that is then okay, here's the plan, let's make it happen. And what I love about the two of you is you always seem to come back to
making it happen. And whatever that is, whether it's the next event, whether it's the next staff, whether it's the reset of the right, investing in another company, kudos to both of you, I really enjoy this story. And hopefully I can have you back on the show sometime in the future and we stay connected. But where can people find you online?
Yeah. So our passion projects Flash. How you can really interact with us on a business level because we do coaching and consulting is with Hustle and Gather. So hustleandgather.com. We have a podcast, it's also about entrepreneurs and everyone's origin story cos we love to hear how people, how people got to where they are today. Hustle + gather. We're on Instagram. Yeah, @hustleandgather too.
Yeah, we're link up all of your businesses and where people can find you in the show notes. I always ask this last question. And since I have two guests, we'll give you both a chance to answer this. Let's start with Dana. Dana, if today happened to be your last day here on this planet Earth that we call home, what would you want everyone to remember you for?
I think I want everyone to remember me, that I was a kind person. I think that is my goal is to no matter who I interact with it that I show kindness,
Awesome. Courtney.
I'm all about this often because I think that everyone's kind of looking for other like search for significance and relevance in their life. And I guess for me, it would be that I was motivational and inspiring. Like I inspired people to think big things and dream big things and motivate them towards that no matter where it is in their life and journey that they felt inspired or motivated by a conversation or interaction or whatever with me.
That's amazing. I wish both of you continued success in your journey. I know there's just more and bigger things to come for you guys. I'm gonna keep an eye on your podcast. I've enjoyed the conversations I've heard up to this point. And thank you so much for being here on The MindShift Podcast.
Thanks for having us. It's been great.
Hey my friend, thanks again for listening to today's episode of The MindShift Podcast. Listen, let's not have the conversation in here. Connect with me on social @MrDarrellEvans on almost all the platforms, with the exception of Facebook. My Facebook fan page is @DarrellEvansFan. Until next week, remember you're just one shift away from the breakthrough you're looking for.