128 : Learning To Trust Yourself and Overcome Self-Doubt Through Entrepreneurship with Haley Hoover

Envisioning is all about choosing to think big about your life and putting the power of your predicting brain to work to create the life you dream of. And financial independence brings awareness and choice to your financial life, empowering you to make your vision a reality by getting your money sorted out and ultimately making work optional. And here's the best part, you don't have to wait until you reach financial independence to live out your vision.

Mindful Fire is about using these tools to craft that life now on the path to financial independence and beyond. If you're ready to start your mindful fire journey, go to mindfulfire. org slash start and download my free envisioning exercise in just 10 minutes. This guide will help you craft a clear and inspiring vision for your life. Again, you can download it for free at mindfulfire. org slash start. Let's jump into today's episode.

similar to what we did at Google for your team, that is hosting some really fun, interesting classes that combine abstract art techniques, as well as journaling a little bit of yoga. And bringing that into personal development. that's my two things I'm into right now.

I was actually studying public relations and was doing quite well. but I felt in my bones that I was like, I don't think I'm gonna do pr. I just don't, I feel like I, I would go to my PR classes, I was head of the PR society, make all these, all this stuff, and then I would rush home so I could blog and so I could work on my blog so I could redesign my logo 12 times. And, I was just really into this piece about somehow helping people through the internet and I had no idea what that looked like.

And I remember talking to my friends at the time and we were like, yeah, there's something out there, but what is it? Which is, Crazy 10 years later because look at us zooming, right? so I, I knew I wanted to help people. I knew I wanted to write and use the internet essentially. so I quit college. That's my first big leap to do this. long story short, I went back, finished up. I had a semester left when I quit. So you can imagine how terrified my parents were.

I know this is where I'm supposed to live my life, like purpose is the word I use. So I quit my job and moved to Australia naturally, right? Just very logical decision there. thinking, my idea was that, oh, I'll have a lot less expenses living abroad of living out of a backpack and I'll have all this free time to make this business thing work. so I had a great time. I blogged the whole time, didn't make a dollar from it, I learned a lot. come back home to Oklahoma, take another PR job.

And this time I'm like, okay, I know that I want to do this blog thing. And that's the only word I knew how to use at the time. I was starting, digital nomads, those terminologies were starting to come into play entrepreneurship. I knew that's what I wanted, but it still felt like how do I get there? I'm doing the things, but how do I make it profitable to where I can actually do this full time?

so while I was at the last PR job, I, invested heavily in my, financial mindset, which I know you'll probably like to talk about. just financial stories that I was telling myself, oh, you can't make money doing this, or You have to work hard, or, all of these things. I started looking into all of that. I got twice certified as a life coach, and I saw that as a revenue stream. and then I just heavily invested, financially, energetically, mentally, all of it in. How do I actually build a business?

How do I actually make money from it? Because I had all the PR stuff, I knew how to, getting on camera was no big deal. Writing all of that was great, but how do I turn it into a profitable business? so two years of that and then a, another natural leap. I quit my job to move to New Zealand for a year.

That's the average. And I knew that, but no one could tell me anything. but I was very willing for the first two years of my business, I lived on very little. I went without, everything. I owned all my credit. I was willing to invest all my credit cards into the business, drop my credit score, knowing that it was ultimately a financially wise decision. Cuz ultimately, there's good debt and bad debt, right? And I knew this was gonna be good debt, but that doesn't mean it wasn't really hard.

so finally, then Covid hit, that kind of brought actually a lot of business to me because people realized online business was a thing. All of a sudden people found out about Zoom, people found out about, oh, you can be my coach in, California when I'm living in Germany, or whatever. so that worked out. but talking about the five year thing, I'm really at the five year mark now.

And I feel like I'm just now getting to that, a little bit of stability, I can spend a little more, I can start looking at getting a new car or something like that. I share this because I feel like there is a huge misinformation out there that I know I was fully believing. I'm gonna quit my job and within six months I'll be a millionaire. And I had the mindset for it. I had the gumption for it. But it just doesn't typically work that way.

yeah, I feel like people need to know, I feel like it's important to, to know the truth.

They're all about the figures, Yeah. And it's no, that's probably not gonna happen for most people. And I've been dabbling in entrepreneurship for most of my life in various ways. From Lemonade stands to like trying to start a SAS business and pursuing one of those programs where it's in six months you're gonna have a SAS business. And the rat race is gonna be behind you. It's maybe not.

People listening to this probably have heard my story about envisioning myself out of a job at Google, but we don't need to go into that now. But I think it's really important to realize, you gotta figure it out.

And my big realization is now as I try to turn this podcast into a business and start off creating offers to support people, who are pursuing financial independence, nearing financial independence, and trying to figure out what they're doing next, I'm being faced with not only what do I do in the business, but like my own self-doubt. I'm sure you come across a lot of that with your clients.

Yeah. there's just so much like emotional and self-awareness that you need to develop as you pursue these things, that you're trying to create something from nothing.

That doesn't mean that I felt comfortable being, I. Really vulnerable it depends on the type of business you're starting. I think there's so many things. I think there's, the mental know-how, but I also think, you have to be, like you're saying emotionally and mentally confident. and I also think there's an element of purpose. If it's not your purpose, it's not gonna work. I see a lot of new entrepreneurs go with oh, maybe I'll do this cuz it makes money.

I had a time where I was like, oh, I'll just do PR freelance cuz that'll make money quick. If your heart's not in it, it's not gonna work. Because any type of business, whether you're good at it, whether it seems easy, you have to be 200% gung-ho, committed from the inside out. don't even try if you don't feel that way about the work that you're trying to turn into a business, if that makes sense.

But ultimately, it just wasn't quite aligned. so like I said, I tried doing the PR thing and I was like, eh, it's not really my passion. I know that. and then naturally people started coming to me for wanting to publish their books, wanting to launch their businesses. I think they just saw that I had the marketing and PR background, and I had invested so much in myself that I couldn't speak to how to start a business. so it just happened and I loved it.

So I shifted gears, but all the while, started doing the business coaching, but all the while it felt very separate. okay, here's marketing, business coaching, but there's this piece to me that's doing this intuitive art and having a blast and like wanting to somehow help people creatively and, and it was coming into mixing together, but I couldn't figure it out. I think our ego likes to keep things in boxes and keep them separate.

And the more personal development work I did and let go of that ego, the more I just saw these two things coming together and they're still slowly coming together. But ultimately what happened is I thought, okay, so I love doing abstract art and I love it because that's where I free my mind. That's where I practice trusting outside of myself. That's where I, practice letting go. I love it because there's no rules. for a while I did, pretty pictures where, horse is brown and the sky's blue.

And it was exhausting. Cause I was like, no, I live that world all day long. I wanna go somewhere where I can just throw paint around. It has no meaning. It has no, and it just feels good to do it. And so I started seeing in my business coaching clients, they didn't have that. They needed that release, that like ability to trust, letting their business evolve, like trust all of these things that come up in business. and so I thought, I'm gonna try it.

So I created a, a workshop where I just chose a couple of abstract art techniques. Like literally we're talking scribbling, maybe even just looking at a picture upside down, things like that. I had about 10 friends join me, and it allowed them to step into the intuitive creative part of their brain. That they weren't really using that often. they loved it, had great feedback. And so I was like, this feels right. This feels exciting to me.

it really brings two pieces of what I'm passionate about together, the personal development, the ambition with the creativity and the intuition. I just started putting it out there, Hey, I'm doing these. I'd love to do 'em for your team. from there I literally went to my downtown in, I was in Sonora, California at the time. I just passed out fires. I'm doing this, I wanna do it for your team, I wanna do it for your friends, whatever. And, yeah, I landed the Google gig.

I've since presented to some really awesome corporate teams, like, Microsoft, Pinterest, and it's. Just because I'm putting myself out there and asking for it. And also that piece I mentioned earlier about it being in alignment with who I am and what I'm here to do.

And if you want a more specific answer would be helping people find themselves with art and journaling.

And journaling and things like seeing the connections between things that don't seem like they would be connected, but I can see the value in having a space or a practice where you're just painting and you're just trusting. I've had times where I don't know if I was drawing or what I was doing, but I'm not good at any of those things, but I'm just like, hmm, maybe this, and then maybe that mm-hmm. There's no right answer. Right.

A place where there's no right answer is powerful because I am the type of person who's always looking for the right answer. Yes. Cause you know, I did well in school and I always wanted the teacher to say, good job, Adam, and all of this stuff. And that's exhausting. And that's how

Do the right thing, and you'll be successful. There's a real person underneath that has maybe a totally different desire. And I think like you're talking about, when you're in the flow of creating, doing art or something, that's where the mind can relax and you can find those answers. You can find out what you're craving. yeah, I think it's just giving ourselves. The space to step into that, to let it unfold.

and if especially talking about running a business, there's no right answer in business. There's not. It's, it is a, just as I've shared, it's a journey. It's a unraveling, it's a, it's a walk to walk.

it's a five minute mindfulness activity. All you need is a sticky note and a sharpie or a pen. And I don't wanna get too much away, but literally scribbling. That's one of my biggest go-to tips. Scribble. Scribble and let it be messy. Let it be what it is. doesn't have to be something that you can recognize with your logic brain. It can be a scribble. And just notice how that feels.

even I've had people cry because I told them to close their eyes and scribble with a sharpie because it is an act of releasing control. It is an act of trusting. It is an act of letting it be imperfect, I think there's a lot to that, what you're asking almost all of us struggle with perfectionism, overthinking, fear of judgment of others.

And I think it's because of the structures we have in our Western society, you think about how you went through K through 12, there are rules and it's, this or that. That's it, I think it takes time to unwind from that path and rediscover your intuitive knowing and your yes no muscles within yourself, not just from an external source. go scribble.

I imagine you're familiar with the artist's Sway. Yes. Very much You seem like someone who would be familiar with the Artist's way. Yes. yeah. and for those listening, it's a book that basically helps you reconnect with your creative child within, I think. Yeah. But there's two kind of main practices. it suggests. And the first is, Morning pages, which is basically sitting down and just letting stream of consciousness, pen to paper, whatever comes up. Just put it down on paper, each morning.

And then there's the second, which is artist dates, which is basically just like taking yourself out on a date to do something creative. I did a few where I like walked around town or I went in the woods by myself. And, I only made it a few weeks in. I gotta get back to it. But I know, it was wonderful when I did it. I think my pages, actually, I was using this very book right here. But, yeah, I have my morning pictures right here. The book was too big. I need a smaller book. yeah.

Because it would take me like 45 minutes. Yeah. And I have now, I had one kid at the time, now I have two kids, Wow. It's a little bit challenging, to carve out 45 minutes to write.

Yeah. but I was also going to say, I'm a Julia Cameron nerd. I've read not quite all of her books, but I've got a list and I'm trying to read every single one of her books. She has a lot. but after the Artist Way, she came out with a sequel, it's called Walking In This World, and basically she introduces a third exercise. Oh yeah.

And I stand by this and I teach this and I do this daily and is walking alone, not with a dog, not with a friend, just walking for at least 20 minutes, several times a week. I really recommend people give that a try too, because on those blocks, You clear your mind. Don't listening to a podcast, not on the phone. Just being present. That's where I get more intuitive downloads ideas, just pings, those Sudden hits of inspiration that lead us down our path to purpose, like we're talking about.

It doesn't come from, logic brain. You can't force it. It's, allowing, so I always say that our brain is like a catcher's met. So if you think of like a baseball met, that's closed. So when you're in your logic brain, the fist is closed. It knows what it wants, it's determined. It's, God's plans but we can't accept a ball, right? If God, the universe is trying to throw you an idea, trying to throw you an a nugget towards your purpose. You can't accept it.

So to open that MIT to open your brain, Your receptiveness, you have to relax. And so part of that is getting into the body. Yoga, dance, walking, any of that. But also just giving space. We feel so much of our time up with, the phone. I'm just like the social media, podcast and all those things are great. And not to mention all the people in our lives, but again, there's no space for inspiration to come through. So that's what the walking 20 minutes will do.

That's what, making time to just dream of consciousness. Journaling will do. artist date, same thing. when you're in a new place somewhere that's exciting to you. even if it's, she recommends I think an hour I've done it, 20 minutes. I went into a random bookstore and I come out with so much inspiration ideas because when you're in a new place, you're in that, heightened level of awareness and mindfulness and Once again, your catchers meant is open.

You're able to receive downloads from whatever you wanna call it, God, universe. I say the creative cloud in the sky, but that's where things come from, right? it's this relaxed moment. in the shower, if you look at, you can study creativity and intuition with Albert Einstein. Richard Branson credits a lot of his success to intuition. So there's Oprah and a lot of times they'll share, like their biggest ideas came on a walk in the shower in the middle of the night. Why?

Because they were relaxed, their catchers meant was open.

when I leave Google full-time and do this, right. So the idea is I'm trying to make this happen. Mm-hmm. But I realized I am rushing, right? there's this feeling like I'm not far enough along. I didn't do enough. I'm not making enough progress, and there's a rushing and a forcing feeling to it, and I'm like, what am I doing? Like, why am I rushing? Yeah. I theoretically I'm doing this so that I can do it for the foreseeable future, for my retirement plan. Yeah. Why am I trying to rush?

It doesn't make any sense. I know this, I've had experiences where the more I force, the more I rush, the worse I feel, and the worse things go the more I relax. And the more I allow, the better things go. The more fun I have, the happier I am. I like put that out there the other day on LinkedIn and people are like, oh my God, I really needed to see this. I'm feeling this too. It's like most of my posts don't get that kind of response. But it was like, okay, so it's not just me.

And you know it goes along with what you're saying. Like the more we can relax and be open, I love the catcher's me metaphor. The more that we can allow things to happen and create space the better things are gonna go. And you said something and I realized that. These practices are not so much what you're doing, although that's helpful. It's just carving out the space. you were talking about walking, like, where are you going? you're just doing it for 20 minutes so that you have that space Yep.

Carved out to allow and to be open to and receptive to whatever is there for you

And I think we just make things more complicated than they should. So just maybe asking yourself, where do I relax? What does bring me that joy? How can I fit in? not a whole weekend of it. that would be great, but we say, oh, I'm gonna do a whole day of self-care. And then you don't do anything cuz that's too lofty. So do five minutes, do 15 minutes, like I said, take five minutes at your desk, take a few deep breaths, scribble. And then see if you see anything in your scribble.

Maybe you see, like looking at the clouds. Maybe you see an elephant, maybe you don't, maybe you just color it, But even that, that right there, you're offline, you're present, and you're just doing something just because we've lost that in our society. And that is really and truly scary because that's where innovation comes from. That's where, creativity, just alive meant, and fulfillment.

we have to make it a priority to find small pockets of the day where we can just be, relax, be, have your mi mit open and let things happen.

So half the stuff they're telling you to do, you really don't need, and you probably don't have the capital to sustain anyway. So what it really comes down to though is we use those, oh, I need to invest in this software before I can begin, and it's, $50 a month or whatever before you can do that. It's like you're using that as an excuse to just get started because that's where the actual growth comes from. That's where the actual fear is. So I always tell people I. Forget all that. Just do it.

Just do the first step. Record your first episode, record it on your iPhone. That's what I did. Record it on your iPhone. Forget about the fancy mics. Forget about all of that. And this is just an example. Just start because I, and the same with business, Okay. You think you need a bookkeeper and accountant and all this. Just start, my client called right before this interview. She wanted to get into coaching.

She's already doing it, but she's not certified, so she wasn't sure she could actually charge for it. I was like, I want you to call up a friend right now and ask if you can coach them. you have nine years of experience. You know what you're doing. But we tell ourselves these stories that we need X, Y, Z before we can Do what we wanna do. And most of the time you don't. You just need someone giving you permission and saying, you're fine. Just go for it. and a helpful tool.

This may be helpful for some of our listeners, that I constantly go back to ask yourself, what is the absolute worst case scenario? What is the absolute worst thing that can happen? So you launch, I don't know, you launch your coaching business and what you have no clients. Great. You're right where you are now.

people don't care a 10th as much as you think they do. they care about what you're doing. But I guarantee you they're not, oh I really wish that they wouldn't have chosen that font for their newsletter. Now I'm gonna unsubscribe. people are just excited to see doing something. if that's where your heart is, go for it. And the people who aren't excited for you are gonna fall away cuz they're not meant to be in your life anyway.

You don't have an offering. You don't need to be spending 50 or a hundred dollars a month on anything and you'll

I have a, like 700, 800 people on my email list, which is fantastic. That's great. And do I send them emails? Not really. I send them one email a week when the podcast goes live, but that's because I'm making it into such a bigger thing. it's gotta be perfect, it's gotta be really well thought out. And it's no, like I was talking to a, someone in this mastermind that I'm in and he's like an email copywriter and he, he's like, sometimes they just want to hear from you.

Yeah. They just want to hear what you're up to. I went to a bachelor party on Memorial Day weekend and we went to a music festival and I spent twice as much to go in the v i p section. Not because I necessarily wanted to, but because my friends were, and it was amazing. It was such a good experience. And so like that would be a good email and I know that I would totally read that. And did I do it yet? Nope, To your point, just do it.

that all the success in quotes that I've had is just haphazard action taking.

There's nothing real about it. And you find out the real stuff when you actually talk to people and move forward and put things out there.

And a lot of times that momentum will take over. And you'll carry it over. I, if you open a Word document, you're probably gonna end up writing some. Mm-hmm. but I also wanted to add too, that these practices of going for your daily walk, doing the stream of conscious journaling, scribbling, moving intuitively, all these things, they also help you practice letting things be messy, letting things be imperfect. letting there not be a right answer. I really loved how you put that, yeah.

I just, I've got, yeah. Lemme make up a whole story about how I'm gonna do this. And

Okay. How would you advise me on going forward and like actually making that a reality and tell me a little bit about how you went about

All of a sudden your brain goes, oh, no one laughed at me and told me I had to leave the village forever. I'm gonna die alone. That didn't happen. Oh. So maybe a week goes by and you're like, maybe I'll actually call and follow up with some of these people because it wasn't as scary as I thought. So then you're making a follow up call. Hey, did you think of anyone who might be interested in this? Guarantee you the fortune's in the follow up. Yes. Somebody will have something, right?

Yes. And that's the other thing. A lot of us go. Oh, I passed out 10 flyers and that was hard. And no one said any, no one ever gave me anything. I didn't make any money. And it's follow up. People are busy. Doesn't mean they weren't thinking about you, doesn't mean they didn't have ideas for you or want to hire you. I've had people, oh yeah, we wanted to hire you. Thanks for reaching back out.

I would've missed that if I wouldn't have reached back out, It's just making it simple, taking action set, but just telling people that's what you're doing is the biggest thing.

And I wanted to go back there and I wanted, I became an adult roller blader during the pandemic and I wanted to go back, cause I had been there when I was a teenager. I'm like, how can I go back? And I just emailed [email protected] and basically was like, Hey, here's, I teach these things. I teach mindfulness at Google and I'd love to learn about what you're doing with this wellness position that you have posted. And then I followed up and if I didn't follow up, there you go.

I wouldn't have had that opportunity. And then the biggest opportunity I've had on the podcast, which is when I was a guest on Choose Fi, kind of one of the biggest personal finance podcast. Yeah. I followed up. I sent an email a year before and never heard anything. when he said, my co-host is leaving the podcast. I want to feature people from the audience. I emailed him and then I followed up and I, he's oh, thanks so much for following up. Yeah. people are not offended by following up.

They appreciate it. Yeah. Because they're busy. Yep. it's funny that you're saying this because these biggest opportunities for me. Yeah. Were a result of the follow up. And just putting it out there.

Mm-hmm. that's what I really don't enjoy seeing out there in the entrepreneurial world is, we have these people, you're just not successful cuz you're lazy and you just gotta want it more. And I'm like, I fully disagree with that because like we've been saying, there's so much more under the surface. Maybe, you were rejected in fifth grade when you handed out a, I don't know, a paper to your friends or something, And that's maybe not consciously, but that is keeping you from doing this.

So let's look at that. Let's unplug that, and there again, journaling. Ask yourself, what is keeping me from telling people that I'm doing these visioning workshops? What, why aren't I doing that? And let yourself go there. what are you really afraid of asking those harder questions or get a coach? That's what coaches do. What's actually keeping you from that? And see what comes up, because it's usually not, I'm fat and lazy or whatever. terrible things that we tell ourselves.

Yeah. It's usually much deeper than that.

To have these spaces where we can really get to know ourselves, then we're just gonna keep doing the same thing we've been doing. Yep. And not getting the results that we want, in a lot of cases. Yep. Hailey, you mentioned that you have like a quiz for people. Yes. where can they find that quiz?

but I see these same things recurring in people with what's actually keeping them from achieving the success that they want. And it is, it comes down to those four things. once you know which one is your. Your biggest, we all have all of 'em, but which one's your strongest? Then you can start to peel away the layers. say it's rejection. where does that come from? were you raised in a house where you were, you felt rejected? are you in a relationship where you feel rejected?

there's a whole lot of layers to uncover there,

a lot of times it's like farmers, so they have half of it is a shop or a place to park trucks and stuff, and the other half is a house. So it cuts down on. All of that. gonna have a tractor next door,

And I like asked her, and I was like, how did you do it? did you. Work with someone. Cause I still want to do it. I now wanna build a skate park slash yoga meditation. Podcast office. All in the same thing. Yes. I want the roof to be like this with the windows. But you could do that on, on like a, steel frame structure. I just,

a lot of times it's like farmers, so they have half of it is a shop or a place to park trucks and stuff, and the other half is a house. So it cuts down on. All of that. gonna have a tractor next door,

And I like asked her, and I was like, how did you do it? did you. Work with someone. Cause I still want to do it. I now wanna build a skate park slash yoga meditation. Podcast office. All in the same thing. Yes. I want the roof to be like this with the windows. But you could do that on, on like a, steel frame structure. I just,

Do you know what this marketing coach told me to do? The same thing. You already did the same thing. The same thing. She goes make you a little spreadsheet of, a list of the companies you wanna contact. Hit 'em. Follow up. Yeah. And I'm like, no, I can't be that simple. I'm just like, I don't know, I'm kind scared. No. that's literally, and so it's on my to-do list right now, cuz several months have gone by and I have not done it. And she's I'm like, are you sure there's not another way?

Are you sure there's not like a hack or she's you gotta do what you gotta do. Like it's, go do it. I'm like, all All right. Yeah. So you're gonna do it well, yeah. What I need to do truthfully is journal, why am I not doing this? What's coming up for you? Where are you stalling? What's, Because I don't really have an answer on the top of my head. I don't know why I wouldn't. Cuz I've set this goal. I've got my sticky notes with my goals everywhere. I visualize it. You've done it before.

I'm doing it already, right? Yeah. So I'm like, so why? What is holding me back? So I need to take my own medicine and dive into, dive into that.

I've tried both, if you have a connection, I say Absolutely use it. Try that. Yeah. Yep. Try it. But then, I think that's, maybe that's my hesitation cuz more what I'm trying now is actually going and looking for, okay, who does the HR or who does wellness? It's different company to company and then pitching them cold, which is definitely harder than having a contact, but, That. how else are they gonna know about you

Just tell me about a time in your life where you wanted to make something happen, and maybe you didn't know how it was gonna come to be, but you made it happen cuz you, you followed your intuition and your vision.

And just realized that, walking down a dirt road by myself and I walked past a cemetery, really old, beautiful cemetery. And I remember I was like 22 years old. And I remember just thinking, oh my gosh, life is going to pass me by before I know it, it just goes so quick. I need to do something like, I don't know, I just need to do something. And my solution was, I said, I wanna move somewhere beautiful. I'm gonna save, I'm gonna start a savings account.

Just start putting money in there, and I'll make a goal within a year to move. Which looking back I'm like, oh, so young. so I started stashing money for whatever, just a random thing. And kid you, not a few months go by, I've got a, a decent amount saved. And a friend of mine came in my office and said, I'm moving to Australia. Can I borrow your laptop? And I said, I'm gonna, where do I sign up? And it was as simple as that.

And I look back, I'm like, that was really weird, but it was an intuitive hit. I knew I wanted to go somewhere beautiful. I didn't know where or how or whatever. I just started falling that intuition right by putting the money away and. time went on and I spent a year traveling the whole country. Had a beautiful experience, a wonderful time. something I'm most proud of in my twenties.

sometimes it's just those fuzzy little pictures start coming in and you gotta just start taking action and just trusting that it'll unfold.

I happened to look at their website, which I did every once in a while, and I happened on the job page, which I had never been to before, and I saw they were hiring for a wellness instructor, Summer camps don't really hire wellness instructors. Right. and then I just sent the email and then I followed up and now I'm like, friends with the Director of Health and Wellness and I led this workshop and we're friends.

You never know, but if you don't create space to think and dream and envision what you want, you're just gonna keep doing what you're doing. yeah, I love that story. And yeah, you're gonna have that memory of Australia, that you're in Australia for the rest of your life. Yeah. Yeah. And that is, that is worth more than any amount of money that you could have earned in that PR job, for sure. Absolutely.

Is it what I do is very active, but I love it and I want to do it, maybe it's owning properties, but do you have a passion for owning properties or you're just doing that cuz someone said it'll make you money, right? I think you have to really be aligned with the method that you choose. so yeah, and I also would encourage you to ask yourself, How do you wanna spend your time? And these two questions go hand in hand. what is your ideal day? What is your ideal way to spend your life?

when I ask myself that again and again over the years, it always comes back to, oh, I wanna teach and I wanna paint and I wanna write, and, you know what I mean? So I built a career doing that. maybe you don't wanna do any of that. Maybe, if it's not I wanna speak on a podcast all day, then maybe there's a different route or whatever, so having your listeners really think about what is that ultimate vision of fulfillment, not just, I want a nice car and a nice house, forget about the money.

What would a fulfilling life look like for you? And then maybe plan accordingly for that, to find that, that, financial freedom through that avenue.

We sat two minutes stillness, or we did two minutes of mindfulness. Let that be awesome because I guarantee you two minutes will change your whole day. Five minutes will change your whole day. letting just whatever you can do or whatever you do, just be grateful to yourself for doing it. and again, gracious, give yourself all that self-love.

Where can people connect with you online?

and I'd be really interested to hear, what does come up for you guys if you try the five minute mindfulness activity or if you take the free quiz or both. I would be very interested to hear how you evolve as a result of this podcast and those free tools. Would love to connect with whoever and wherever.