Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. So I was scrolling through TikTok the other day, and this one video... stopped being in my tracks. It was a video by a young woman named Avi, and her handle, if you want to check her out, is being and becoming Avi. And she said something that really struck me, so I played it again.
Basically, she said one of the reasons why so many of us don't like how we look is because human beings were never meant to see themselves this much. Just stop and think about that. It's true, isn't it? We're not supposed to be staring at ourselves all the time, whether it's on Zoom or taking selfies or scrolling through everyone else's curated, perfect-looking lives. And that's exactly why our conversation today is so important.
You and I are about to have a raw, unfiltered talk unlike anything we've ever had before on this podcast because today you and I are going to talk about something that affects every single one of us. Even if you don't say it out loud, body image, self-talk. Picking yourself apart. Those quiet moments of comparison and shame that shape how you see yourself and how that impacts the way you're showing up in the world. Maybe for you, it's acne.
that makes you want to just stay inside your apartment. Maybe it's a part of your body that you've spent years hiding or hating, or maybe it's something you can't change. Your height, your complexion, your body shape. your hair texture, you've convinced yourself that because of it, you're somehow less worthy of love, connection, or confidence. If any of that hits close to home for you or for someone you love, I want you to hear me loud and clear.
You are not alone. If you've ever felt like you're not good enough, not attractive enough, not lovable because of how you look, if you're tired of comparing yourself to filtered faces and highlight reels, if you've ever looked in the mirror and thought, I wish. I could change that. Then this episode is for you and it's for the people that you care about that are struggling to love themselves as they are. Because today we're talking about confidence.
talking about body image. And you're also going to learn about something that researchers call the otoscopic phenomenon. Wait till you hear about this. And we're going to also talk about this sense that you're trapped in a body. that you just don't like, and how that impacts comparison, shame, self-worth, how that may make you hide yourself when you don't like how you look. And most importantly, today, we're talking about healing.
This is the conversation I wish I had had years ago, because what you're about to hear, it's going to change the way you think about how you look and how you speak to yourself forever. Barclays ready-made investments. The clue's in the name. Not Barclays where do I begin investments. You can start from £50. That's why they're not difficult to get started investments either. And you can choose your risk level.
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I am so excited that you're here. I cannot wait for today's conversation. And first of all, it's always such an honor to spend time together and to be with you. And if you're new to the podcast, I also wanted to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I'm excited that you're here for the conversation today. And because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you.
I know that you not only value your time, but you also want to feel more confident and you want to know how to accept yourself and learn how to love who you are as you are. And if you're here right now because somebody shared this episode with you, I want to point something out. It means that they care deeply about you and they want you to hear something and learn from some experts.
unbelievable information that is going to help you value yourself and be even more confident. And you deserve that. And I think it's awesome that you have people in your life that care about you like that. Because today's conversation that we're going to have, it's a really important one. And I was inspired to do this because I sat down with a person by the name of Jake Shane. If you don't know Jake, trust me.
Every single 20-something and every high schooler in your life knows exactly who Jake Shane is. He is a comedian who is blowing up everywhere. In fact, he just won a Webby Award for best comedic creator. He is on a sold-out tour. right now all across the United States. He has a hit podcast called Therapist, huge YouTube and TikTok following. And I had the honor of sitting down with Jake and being on his podcast. And when we sat down together,
Holy cow, he opened up in a way that he's never opened up before. He got so real. He said that he thinks he's ugly. He hates how he looks. He just hates that he's short. He obsesses over his body. And then he shared this painful story about when all of these feelings of self-hatred and body image started. And I thought to myself, how many of us have a story like this?
You know, this moment when somebody said something to you or you walked in a room and suddenly you felt like you were the tallest or the shortest or you didn't look like anybody else in there and you felt like you didn't belong and you started believing there was something. wrong with you? Your height, your skin, your stomach, your face, the acne, hair, lack of hair. I mean, who hasn't looked in the mirror and thought,
I hate this. I hate how I look. Why do I look like this? I wish I could look like that. Now, it's normal to have a thought like that every once in a while. But when those thoughts become the soundtrack in your mind, When they stop you from showing up or from wearing a bathing suit or jumping in the photo with your friends or going to the beach or going out on a date or putting yourself out there. When the thoughts about your body or your acne steal your confidence.
and they make you believe that you're not smart enough or worthy of love and happiness because of how you look, that's a problem. And I know you would agree that even though we know it's a problem, nobody really knows how to fix this, right? Well, that conversation that I had with Jake Shane on his podcast about body image, it got me thinking about the fact that he said out loud what so many people, including you, feel privately. So I thought, I want to go deeper into this topic.
And that's what you and I are going to do today. And that's why I'm excited that you're here. And I'm excited that you're going to take the time to listen to this and that you're also going to take the time to share this with people in your life where you're like, gosh, I wish they could just really see what I see.
Why don't they see how beautiful they are? Why are they constantly hating on themselves? And I wanted you to understand, like I wanted to understand, why do so many of us feel this way? And more importantly, what do you do about it? So for today's episode, I'm doing something really special. I want to explain what you're about to hear. After my conversation with Jake Shane, I reached out to not one, but two world-renowned psychiatrists, Columbia University's Dr. Judith Joseph.
and Harvard Medical School's Dr. Ashwini Nadkarni. These two experts are going to walk you through the topics of body image, self-acceptance, and confidence. And it is so important for you to hear from the very start. If you don't like how you look, if you think you're ugly, if you think if only you could change certain aspects of your appearance, your chin, your nose, you're this, you're that, oh, well, then you'd be happier. Our experts will tell you.
This is normal. And you are also going to learn how life in the modern world is impacting your body image and your self-confidence. so much more than you even realize. You're going to learn about the connection between constantly seeing yourself on Zoom and selfies online, how that is negatively affecting your self-image and your mental health. And most importantly,
You know this is the Mel Robbins podcast, so you're not leaving here without simple things that you can do backed by research. And there are, in fact, four steps that our world-renowned experts are going to walk you through that you can start to do as you're...
listening to our experts explain them. These are the steps that will help you learn how to accept and love yourself, particularly if you hate how you look. Because I want you to hear something loud and clear from your friend Mel. You're not broken. In fact, you are beautiful. You may not see it, but I do. And so do the people that love you. And my mission with our conversation today.
is to get you to stop picking yourself apart and to stop caring so much about what other people may think and learn how to be kinder, more compassionate, and more confident in seeing and celebrating your unique... beautiful self. And one more thing, Jake, if you're listening, I love you. I am so proud of you. And thank you. Thank you for being brave enough to share your story.
and for giving us all permission to listen and to talk about this. So let me set up how we're going to dive into the topic. First, you're going to hear Jake Shane talk about how much he hates his looks and how it is impacting him. and dating. Because one of the things that he really wants is to be in a relationship. And you're also going to hear Jake open up about how his height and deep insecurities make him feel like a real relationship, not going to happen.
But let me be very clear. This is not a dating episode. This is a deeper conversation. It's about something most of us carry quietly and constantly in the background. It's about the thing you hate about yourself. And so I want you to stop and think about that one thing. Is it your complexion, your body, your teeth, your thighs, your voice, your face, the way it looks in photos, your hair?
That thing that you constantly zero in on and rip apart. That thing that makes you want to hide or not smile or not speak up at work. Because we can be honest with one another. Most of us are not walking around thinking, oh my God, I'm just so beautiful today. You're walking around thinking, I look hideous. I'm this, I'm that, I'm not enough. My outfit blows. I wish I looked like this. But what's really going on underneath all this criticism is deep down, you're afraid that what you look like.
is going to get in the way of the life you want. You've convinced yourself that you're the problem. And when that belief takes root, when you think you're too ugly, too different, too short, too much acne, too far gone, too old, too this, too saggy, too baggy. It doesn't just keep you from love. It keeps you from life. That craving for connection, whether it's with a romantic partner or friends or being seen at work or just being somebody who gets you.
it often masks something even more powerful, a deeper need to feel worthy. You deserve that. You deserve to feel like you're allowed to take up space, to be seen, and to be celebrated. and to stop apologizing for your body. So that's where we're going today because here's what I believe. You are not ugly. You're not unlovable.
And if you ever felt like you don't deserve the things you want, whether it's a relationship or intimacy or just someone to hold your hand, I want you to stay with me because we're talking about the relationship you have with yourself and how to finally stop being the bully. your own head. So let's begin where the conversation with Jake Shane began. See, Jake admitted something to me. Jake said the thing that he wants most in life is a relationship.
And so then I asked him to describe what would the relationship that he has in his mind, what would that feel like? He paused and he said, I don't know. I want the relationship to make me feel confident. And I would like it to give me more life experience. I want to be able to lay down with someone and watch TV, but also to feel romantic with them. He knows what he wants, but he's not.
sure how it would feel. Because here's the truth. It's really hard to ask for what you want when deep down you don't believe you deserve it. And if you ever felt like that, if you ever avoided the mirror, stood in the back of a photo or laughed off a compliment because you just couldn't believe it was true, keep listening. You have to believe that you're worthy of being fully seen.
And that being seen, this isn't insecurity that's stopping you. It's self-protection. You're afraid if somebody sees you naked or they see you without your makeup on or they see that you're actually bald and not the guy in the photo that you posted online.
that they're going to reject you. I mean, it makes total sense. When you carry shame or judgment about your body, your past, your face, or the one thing you hate about yourself, it feels safer to keep people at arm's length, right? Because then you don't...
have to risk rejection. But that same armor that's protecting you as you act cool and you cross your arms and you put on the makeup and the perfect outfit and you always have a towel around you because you don't want them to see you naked, it also keeps love out. And that's why this moment with Jake hit me so hard. See, I asked Jake, well, if you know what you want, Jake, what's the biggest issue when it comes to dating? This is what Jake Shane had to say.
I feel my main issue with dating is I am so insecure. I don't know how I'm going to share. I feel like when you're in a relationship, you like share your body with someone almost like you have to like be so vulnerable. And I struggle so much with like, to be frank, like being like naked with someone. Have you ever been in a long-term committed relationship? Ever. And is part of it because you're uncomfortable being naked with somebody? Yes. I would say that's it.
huge, huge reason. Cause it's how I carry myself. Like I don't give off that. Like I want to take off my clothes and be with someone. Wow. Never been in a long-term committed relationship. because you're uncomfortable being naked with someone. That sucks. And I have a feeling that you or somebody that you love can relate to that. Because the truth is, most people...
Don't say that out loud. Most of us kind of keep the lights off and slink off to the bathroom. Most of us kind of pull our clothes together and hide our bodies. But that's exactly what Jake Shane's talking about. And that kind of insecurity, it doesn't just make you self-conscious. It makes you hide and it makes you feel unworthy of the person that you're with.
Because when you're shrinking away from the very things that you want most, whether it's love, connection, partnership, because deep down there's this fear, if they really saw me, if they knew the real me, they wouldn't want me.
That's why I wanted to bring in two world-renowned experts to help us really unpack what's going on. Because Jake Shane's not the only person that feels this way. He's just got the courage and the confidence to talk about it because he's probably sick and tired of letting this hold him back.
And I want you to hold on to the thing that you're judging yourself around, the ways in which you're shrinking as you listen to the experts who are going to join in on the conversation. And our experts are... Dr. Judith Joseph, who is a double board certified psychiatrist, she is a leading mental health researcher and the author of the brand new bestseller, High Functioning.
She's also a podcast favorite around here on the Mel Robbins podcast. And Dr. Ashwini, who is a professor at Harvard Medical School. and a board-certified psychiatrist at Mass General Brigham, specializes in anxiety, depression, OCD, PTSD, and ADHD. She is also the Associate Medical Director of Brigham Psychiatric Specialties, an interim vice...
Chair for the Faculty Affairs in the Department of Psychiatry. Now, both Dr. Ashwini and Dr. Joseph are here to help unpack these topics further for you and me. So let's start with what... actually is body language. And Dr. Ashwini requested that I call her Dr. Ash. So Dr. Ash, why are we constantly seeing ourselves through this critical lens?
First, I think it's helpful to define what we mean by body image issues. When people experience negative body image, what we mean by that is that there's a difference between what they view as their real self and what their idealized self is, right? Like there's this concept of who they think they are and who they think they should be. Now, with negative body image, there are a number of different influential factors. Gender, age, race, ethnicity, all of those can play a role.
But sociocultural factors can also be influential, for instance, our social values and cultural norms. Now, as children age. Their family members may initially play a role in their body image, but after some time, they're going to be exposed to their peer groups, and then they're going to start consuming media. For instance, the TV that they watch, the movies that they view, the books that they read, the magazine ads, and of course, social media consumption.
They're going to be exposed to that concept of the idealized body image. And then that difference between their real self and their idealized self is going to be that much more prominent. Wow. There was a lot to unpack in that explanation from Dr. Ash. But as you listen, didn't she just put words to something that you feel but you don't know how to explain? And I want to highlight a couple things.
The fact that this is really a issue where you have a difference between who you are in reality and this idealized version in your mind that you think you should be. So when you're talking about that in the context of body image, it's like what you look like versus what you think you should look like. And that gap between the real self, that's you.
And this idealized fantasy self that you have in your mind, this gap is where all the pain lives. This is where you and I pick ourselves apart. I look like this, but I want to look like that. This is where you compare. It's why you put filters on your face. It's why you freeze when people call on you at work because you don't want to be seen. You think you should look and sound different.
What Dr. Ash is pointing out is that you and I constantly hold this idealized version of ourselves over our own heads. And this is exactly what Jake is feeling. He's not struggling with how he looks. I really want to highlight this. He's not struggling with how he looks. He is wrestling with the belief that there's a better version of him. And until he becomes that better looking version.
He's not worthy of love. Just stop and consider that because you do the same thing. You say there's a better looking version of me. And until I become that version and fix these things, then I'm not worthy of the life and the experiences that I want. Do you know how heartbreaking that is? To feel this way?
but never say it aloud? I really have to applaud Jake Shane because he did. And the moment he said it out loud as we were talking, something shifted. Because when you name the thing that you're ashamed of... even just once, you take away its power to silently control you. And it allows you to take one small, powerful step toward the life you've been keeping yourself from living. So take a second.
And just sit with everything that you and I have already talked about. And while you sit with this, I want to take a quick break and have our amazing sponsors share a few words with you. And while you're listening to our sponsors and you're thinking about what we've talked about so far, if someone that you love needs to hear this, and don't we all share this with them right now and don't go anywhere because when we return.
We're going to go even deeper, right to the heart of where these painful beliefs first took hold. And a little later, we're going to get to the four research back steps that help you learn how to love yourself. So stay with me. We'll be right back.
Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. I am so glad you're still here, that you're listening. Thank you for taking a moment to share this with people that you care about. In just a little bit, we're going to be getting to the four steps you can take so that you feel... confident today so that you can learn to accept yourself as you are instead of beating yourself up all the time. Because maybe the thing that you want, like Jake Shane, is a relationship.
Or maybe you just want to be able to post something on social media without a filter or without immediately taking it down. Maybe you want to be able to go out in public with no makeup. Wouldn't that be liberating? Or speak up at a meeting.
Allow yourself to be seen even though you get a little flushed. Or go to your job without obsessing over whether or not people are looking at your acne. Or walk into a room without feeling self-conscious about your height or your weight or the outfit that you're wearing. Whatever it is that you want, whether it's love, confidence, or just the freedom to walk into a room without feeling so critical of yourself, whatever is holding you back probably isn't your body.
It's the way you feel about your body and the way you talk to yourself about it. And that's exactly what Jake Shane and I got into next. Now, just a heads up, Jake and I are buddies. And you're going to hear a little bit of back and forth and banter and playfulness, a little bit of tough love. We're going to interrupt each other. It's okay. But I want you to listen closely to what Jake shares because it is...
Really important. I'm a really confident guy, but I do not like how I feel about my body. And I don't like how I feel about. how I look on the outside. Okay. Like I'll look in the mirror and I'll like take my sides and I'll like pull them back like this. I've done that. I would like to like just shave my sides off. I like have a bigger...
like bosom area. So I would like that to be flatter. I've been working out my arms a lot, but it's not toned. It's more just like bigger. I'd like to shrink it. I don't like my chin. I feel like I have kind of like a double chin. I feel like I have a bump in my nose, but that's like kind of the least of it. And then I really, at the end of the day, I hate how short I am. I don't think it's fair.
Really and truly, like I think more guys would want me if I was taller. At the end of the day, what I think. Do you want to know why more guys don't want you? Why? Because you don't want yourself. You're focused on height. Because it's distracting you from actually doing the work of learning how to look in the mirror. Right. And say, I am going to do life with that guy. Like you only get to do life with one person.
From the moment you're born till the moment that you die. You have one person to take care of. It's you. It's you. And so the best thing you could ever do for yourself. is to learn how to look in the mirror and go, all right, this is what I got. This is the hand I was dealt. And there comes a point in time in life, and I learned this so fucking late, like it just, I don't want you to do this to yourself.
Like you have to learn, if you want to be happier, you have to learn how to allow yourself to be happier. And there's something about you and the way you won't allow yourself to be happier. Yeah. I don't know why. Sometimes you don't have to. Yeah. Sometimes I think the first step in changing your life...
is admitting to yourself that how you're doing it is no longer working. You can be funny as hell and super successful and self-deprecating and actually allow yourself to be happy with who and how you are. I just feel unhappy. I base all my happiness in like other things that happened to me. I am not happy. Like when I go to bed, like I don't. feel happy in my body I don't feel happy in myself I just don't that is so relatable and so painful
I don't feel happy in my body. I don't feel happy in myself. I just don't. Maybe you can relate to what Jake is saying. that when I go to bed at night, I don't feel happy in my body. I don't feel happy in myself. And maybe you're confident. Maybe you got a full life. You show up at work. You're doing the best that you can. But still, there's this one thing that you can't stand.
Jake went on and on. The bump in his, oh, that's the least of it. The boobs, the fact that he wants to shave off his sides. I've said the same thing about the saddlebags that are starting to hit, you know, those kind of things that hang down on your face as you get older. The one thing you wish you could change, if only I could get rid of that, then I'd be happier. The part of you that no matter what else is going on, still makes you feel less than. So let me ask you something.
Why do you do this to yourself? Why are you so quick to pick yourself apart? Why is it so hard to look in the mirror and just be okay with what you see? You know... I saw this video on TikTok that really made me start to look at this topic a little bit differently. This video is from a young woman named Avey.
Her handle is Being and Becoming AV. It's gone crazy viral. I'm talking millions of views. And she shared this concept called the mirror fallacy. Now, she didn't come up with the concept. She was just sharing it online. But it's the idea. that human beings, you and me, we were never meant to constantly see ourselves. And when you really think about it, it makes total sense. Like, think about our ancestors. Were our grandparents constantly looking at themselves? No. But you and me?
Oh my God. All we do is stare at ourselves between the constant Zoom calls, FaceTime calls, selfies, social media, the photos that you're taking. online school, the TikTok videos that you're creating, the reflections that you see in all the glass buildings around us, constantly staring at yourself. You're not meant to do that. That's what's making you curate yourself, judge yourself. It's exhausting. And here's the truth. Everybody feels the same way.
It's the world we live in. In fact, while we were working on this episode, oh my gosh, the discussions with the producing team here at 143 Studios, we have this incredible video director, editor, David. love him. He was telling us that he had this ordinary morning. He was walking to work in Boston. He worked at this huge multinational corporation, big glass, gorgeous building. You can imagine the type, right? And as he's walking into work, just...
Random day, he catches his reflection in the window of the building. And then he noticed something. His knees, the way his pants, slightly bend inward as he walks. And just like that. It became a thing. Couldn't stop seeing it. He couldn't stop wondering, do I walk weird? Do my legs look weird? Are my legs kind of bent in in a weird way? He didn't even stop and consider, is it this weird glass thing that's distorting it?
And it made him, though, feel off, embarrassed, uncomfortable in his body. It made him want to shrink. And so if you're listening to this and you know that thing. whether it's the way your legs look when you walk or the, you know, something that happens with your shoulder when you're talking. You're not alone.
And I'm here to tell you, it's not your fault. And I have science to back this up. We were never meant to see ourselves this much. Not in the mirror, not on Zoom, not in selfies, not on videos, not even reflected in the buildings we're walking past. The truth is you're not wired for constant self-surveillance. You're wired for something else. You're wired to be connected to other people. And this is so fascinating that I'm like, okay, what's the research here?
And so I wanted to go even deeper because you and I need help understanding why is all of this messing with our mind, our body image, and our self-confidence. So I called up our second world-renowned expert to help. us understand and get additional insights into what is seeing yourself all the time in modern life doing to you. Now, this is a woman who has led over 60 clinical research trials.
She focuses on the high-functioning mental health issues that so many people hide, like anxiety and depression. I'm talking about none other than Dr. Judith Joseph. And what she explained. stopped me in my tracks. It was something I had never heard before. She said, oh, Mel, this is a phenomenon. It's called the otoscopic phenomenon. And it perfectly explains why you feel so self-critical all the time. Here's how Dr. Judith explained it. Why it's harder than ever, not just for you, to shake.
the self-criticism, and the issues with body image. Check this out. It's interesting because We were never made to look at ourselves all the time, but now we can't escape it. We're on these virtual meetings. We see ourselves while we're talking to other people. We're, you know, doing FaceTime. We see ourselves. We're creating content. We see ourselves.
And actually, before we even had this ability to do this, there was something called the otoscopic phenomenon. And it's in the psychiatry world, where actually it was considered to be a symptom of psychosis to see yourself. outside of yourself. So that actually creates so much anxiety for patients who, let's say, have psychosis like schizophrenia or psychotic symptoms related to bipolar disorder or other psychotic conditions. And it's disturbing because
Because our brains and our eyes are made to look at other people and to judge their behavior and to get feedback from their behavior, that's how our brains were set up. Our brains weren't set up to do that. when looking at ourselves. So that's why this otoscopic phenomenon is really important to look at. And we're seeing some of this happening in real life with people who aren't psychotic, with people who...
don't have severe mental health issues, where it's creating anxiety for them to be constantly looking at their own image. It's just really unnatural. Okay. Let's just take that in for a minute. Because that's incredible that human beings, you and me, we are actually not wired to see ourselves outside of ourselves. And Dr. Judith wasn't done.
Just get this next part that she explained. Our eyes were designed to look at others and to judge others to adapt. For example, We were designed with a brain to look at someone's face, their behavior, look at where their hands are. as a way to protect ourselves and also as a way to connect with others, right? If you're not able to look at someone to see whether or not they're burying, you know, they're making a little wrinkle here or they're like looking sad.
You don't know how to respond to them in order to attach because humans need other people to survive. So because our brains were designed to only look at other people in order to either survive. because of living with them or to survive by fleeing from them, it's very unnatural for us to be looking at our own image. Because then what happens is that we start to judge ourselves, which is unnatural. We were never designed to be this way. That last line.
We were never designed to be this way. We were actually not designed to judge ourselves. We were designed to judge other people, either for connection or to be like, uh-oh, stay away from that person. But now because we see ourselves. all the time. Holy cow, that judging mechanism, we're now aiming it at ourselves. And you've experienced this. You know when you're on a Zoom call or a FaceTime call and as you are talking or you're in a meeting, you're thinking,
Why does my face look like that? I better change the angle. You know, there's even a center at Stanford that studies this phenomenon. Now they called it zoom fatigue, which to me just sounds like your brain is tired. But what Dr. Judith is actually saying is no, no, no, no. Zoom fatigue is not just that your brain is tired. Zoom fatigue is that when you're staring at yourself, you lose perspective. You don't see yourself clearly. You now start judging yourself.
That's just the tip of the iceberg because now Dr. Ash is back from Harvard Medical School, and she's going to take this entire thing that we're learning even deeper. Check this out. A study that was conducted during COVID lockdown amongst nearly 7,000 people actually showed that people, because they were constantly looking at pictures of themselves on videos in
meetings, nearly 30% of those individuals said that they had so much anxiety about coming back in to in-person meetings, they were considering getting corrective actions such as plastic surgery. So it goes to show you that As much as we are engaging in that process of social comparison between that real self and that idealized self, it really has a powerful effect on our psyches and our mental health.
impossible anxiety and depression as it did in that case. You know what I love about this conversation is that it seems like every problem in today's world is blamed on social media. And I love that we're going deeper and understanding the deeper levers and drivers in terms of the way that you're hardwired and how it's backfiring. Because it's not just social media.
It's the constant taking of photos and the taking of videos. It's the looking at yourself online. No wonder anxiety is up. No wonder confidence is down. Because it's not just about what you're seeing in the mirror. You not only have this gap between the person that you are and this idealized version.
And then you start beating yourself up because you think you should look a different way. But now you add in the fact that you are seeing other people's filtered versions and highlight reels over and over and over again. And so you're idealized. self is completely unattainable. And on top of this, you're not wired for this. You're not supposed to see yourself. And frankly, you're not supposed to see everybody else all the time either.
And so I was really curious about how all of this is fueling and connected to the rise in body and face criticism, why so many people are turning to cosmetic procedures or these 70-step... face routines. So I went back to Dr. Judith Joseph to get her take. And I asked her, Dr. Judith, do you think the rise in body and face issues in terms of people...
criticizing themselves and feeling anxiety about how they look and the surge in cosmetic procedures, does it have something to do with how we're constantly seeing ourselves and we're not designed to do this? Here's what she had to say. I've seen this over the years as someone who treats adults and children, people going to constantly get procedures done, painful procedures, often unnecessary procedures that their doctors are like, listen, I don't see what you see.
You know, if it makes you happy, you can make this adjustment with plastic surgery, but it's never ending. You know, when we look at the science of happiness in my lab, when you have this idea that I will be happy when... And then you get the thing, right? You get the plastic surgery. You're still not happy. You're still looking for other things to fix. I see this all the time when people are fixated on specific physical.
aspects of themselves that other people don't agree with. And what I found in my practice is that this is almost always related to some trauma early in life. And one of the symptoms of trauma is internalizing shame, blame, and low self-worth. So the person's trying to fix this thing on the outside, but it's really something that needs to be repaired on the inside in terms of their self-worth. But also society is showing us that there's this standard of beauty. And if you don't fit it.
then you're not beautiful. And because we have so much access to all of these images of other people who are beautiful, we have way more metrics to compare ourselves against. So it's a combination of... unrepaired internal trauma, and what we're seeing on the outside in terms of societal pressures, why we're seeing these numbers go up in terms of the amounts of procedures that are cosmetic. You know, I want to highlight something.
about what Dr. Judith is explaining that's really important. You think if you fix one thing on the outside, you will finally feel better on the inside. But it's never about the one thing that you see. And look, I'm not a psychiatrist. Luckily, Dr. Judith is here, and she dug into this even deeper to explain the connection between our obsession with how we look versus the deeper things that need healing.
that will actually make us happier. Check this out. It's usually related to some early childhood or early life trauma. And the person has, instead of resolving that inner wound, they have displaced. this onto this external thing. As humans, we like to quantify. So we focus on the concrete. We focus on, oh, my legs are short. Or we focus on, oh, my toes are gross. You know, and we focus on these things. My ears are big.
My chin sticks out. And these are the things that we can control because our concrete brains grasp onto them. They're things that we can see as, oh, that's the problem. And if I just fix this one thing, it'll be better. And I can tell you, I've had these patients over the years where...
They'll get the surgery and they still find something else because it's not that one concrete physical thing. It's something within that it's all tied to this unresolved wound. I know you probably feel the same way that I do. when these world-renowned experts come on and tell us what we don't want to hear. Because like you, I am certain that if I just had longer hair...
or if I were just a little bit thinner, or if my skin were a little bit clearer, or my voice were a little bit deeper, then all my problems would go away. And that's not what the science and the research says at all. What Dr. Judith and Dr. Ash are saying is that we're chasing the wrong fix. Changing your appearance might give you a little boost, but it's not going to heal this feeling of being unworthy.
It's not going to take care of that feeling that I just am not happy, even though I did that thing to fix the thing that I thought I would fix, because the wound was never physical to begin with. And so I'm sure you're thinking, okay. I'm in I get it. What do I do about it? I'm so glad you asked.
because we're going to take a short break so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. And while you're listening, I want you to share this with somebody in your life that is too hard on themselves because they deserve to hear this conversation too. And when we return, you're going to hear more from Dr. Judith and Dr. Ash because there are four research-backed steps that you're going to take.
in order to build a more confident and loving relationship with yourself and to start allowing happiness in now. So don't go anywhere. I'll be waiting for you after this short break. Stay with me. Hey, welcome back. It's your friend Mel. I am so glad that you are still here with me because today you and I are talking about why you feel stuck when it comes to the things that you don't like about your face, your body, your appearance. And that brings me to the four simple steps.
that according to Dr. Ash and according to Dr. Judith, these are the research-backed steps that you need to take in order to break free from all of this criticism and start feeling better and accepting yourself today. So let's talk about these four steps. The first one and the second one, we've already kind of covered, but I really want to take a highlight and make sure you understand you've already done step one and you've already done step two. And step one is acknowledge.
that the world you live in today, the culture, that's the problem. You're not the problem, okay? You are not the problem. It's the world and the culture that we live in. The world that you live in is set up in a way to make you feel dissatisfied with yourself. The selfies, the videos, the Snapchats, the Zoom calls, the FaceTime calls, you're constantly exposed.
to images of yourself. And as you're learning, you're not designed to see yourself. You are designed to see and connect with other people. to scrutinize what they're doing in order to know if there's somebody you want to connect with or there's somebody you want to stay away from. And so when you see yourself, which you're not designed to do, automatically that same scrutiny kicks in.
So it's not just the sheer number of photos either. I mean, think about what happened during the pandemic when everything shifted to video. Suddenly, every meeting, every conversation, every class on camera. That means you had to stare at yourself all day long. And when you're constantly staring at yourself, you're also constantly judging yourself. But here's the truth. There's nothing wrong with you. You don't need a different face.
You don't need a different body. You need a different relationship with the body, the face, and the life you already have. Turn off the camera. Get off social media. And if you're unwilling to get off social media, how about you audit who you follow? Because if your feed is filled with Photoshopped models and influencers living a fake life trying to sell you stuff, that's not helping.
Because step one starts with understanding this. You're not the problem. Today's culture is the problem. Because it's screwing up. how your brain is designed to move through the world and what you're supposed to be looking at. Doesn't it feel good to say, oh, it's not me. I'm perfectly and perfectly beautiful. There's only one me, period. And step two.
You have to look back before you can move forward. I'm gonna say that again. You have to look back before you can move forward. And here's where this connects back to you. figuring out where your own negative self-talk started is key. Because here's what I know to be true. Here is what Dr. Judith and Dr. Ash said over and over.
You didn't come into this world hating your body. You were not born picking yourself apart in the mirror. All that shame, all that self-judgment, all that criticism, all of that belief that something is wrong with how you look. It was taught to you. Maybe it came from a kid at school who made fun of your nose. Maybe it was a comment from a family member about your weight that stuck like glue.
Maybe it was somebody constantly fussing with the way that you dressed or your teeth or your skin or whatever. Maybe it was the pressure of growing up online. and constantly scrolling past people that you thought looked better than you or whose life looked better than yours. And you started to tell yourself, well, that's what beauty is supposed to look like. But here's what I want you to know. And this is good news.
If it was taught, it can be unlearned. If you learn to hate yourself, you can learn to love yourself. If somebody else taught you... to criticize yourself or to make you believe that you were not good enough because of how you looked, you can unlearn this crap and you need to. And part of that unlearning is understanding why you became so critical.
in the first place. That's where the healing begins. And those roots may go a lot further back than you realize. And in order to prove this, let's go back to our buddy, Jake Shane. What he shares next is not just about body image. It's about the exact moment shame gets planted and how fast it grows when you're not willing to talk about it. So I asked Jake.
Where did you get the idea that there was something wrong with your body? And this is what Jake Shane had to say. Someone made a comment when I was in fourth or fifth grade and it really stuck with me. What did they say? That I was fat. Okay. And I- Was it in a situation too where you guys were all like getting undressed in a- I don't know what, I forget. I was wearing a Ross guard, I think. Yeah, it was horrible. And then-
I really lived my life on the internet for my entire life. I spent my entire life on the internet. My parents, I love them for this. Let me watch whatever I wanted to at a young age. Like I was introduced to what sex is. Yes. based on like a multi-million dollar movie. So those men are ripped. Oh, got it. Okay. Yep. So that's what I'm thinking like a normal person looks like.
And then also in the gay scene, it's very, very, very body focused. So, and I don't really know. I just, I always felt like my body was weird and watching people on TV. I still felt like it was weird. And then because of that, like I then had a weird relationship with food and I'm like, do like, okay, I like abs are made in the kitchen. So like, I'm just going to eat a lot less. And then I eat.
Like, and then I end up binging and I just like, I just have a horror, at the end of the day, I just have a horrible relationship with my body. I just have to give Jake a huge shout out for being this honest about the way that this has played out in his life. and what has triggered him to basically look at other people and go, oh, I don't look like that. Therefore, I don't belong and I'm not good enough and I need to change if I want the positive things in my life.
And, you know, he's talking about how being made fun of for his body, being called fat. Maybe you were called fat. And then constantly seeing idealized images on TV and social media. completely shaped the way he saw himself and his worth. Now remember, it's about who you are for real versus the idealized version.
And so the teasing and the images that he sees on TV and social media is what created the idealized version. You have the same thing. Because it's not just Jake Shane that struggles with this. It happens to you too. Happens to all of us. Let me give you an example. I already said that as we were creating this episode, our entire team was talking about the topic and we all could come up with an example.
I'll give you another one. One of our producers, Cameron, who is producing this episode, shared a moment from when she was in fifth grade. She walked into school one morning and the school secretary made a comment about a birthmark that she has on her face. Now, that might not seem like a big deal to an adult, but to a kid in fifth grade, that comment changes everything.
It makes you feel super self-conscious because somebody's talking about it. And here's what most people don't realize. The brain of a child is different from the brain of an adult. And if you're young and someone points something out, what's that? Why do you walk like that? What's up with your teeth? Why is your skin so dark? How come you have so many freckles? Do you burn? What is that thing on your face?
Wow, you got short legs. How are you so tall? Your hair is kind of kinky. It just lands in a way that imprints because what happens when somebody points something out is they're basically saying, You look different. There's something wrong with you. And when you're a kid, you don't have the tools to question it. So what do you do? You absorb it. So again, think about that thing, that part of you that you hate.
That thing that you obsess over, that you wish you could change, if only this thing would change, if only my stomach. If only my thighs. If only my butt was a bubble butt and wasn't like flappy pancakes. Or maybe if my butt was flat and not a bubble butt. Like, we all have a moment. Just like Cameron's. Just like Jake's.
And sure, as an adult, you kind of shrug it off. You say, ah, it doesn't matter. It happened a long time ago. I'm fine. But when you're a kid, it mattered all right. It is part of this gap that we're talking about. And there's a reason why. It matters now to figure this out. And so let's go back to Dr. Judith, our world-renowned psychiatrist, because I asked her, why do these early experiences
stick with us so deeply and impact us as adults. And this is what Dr. Judith has to say. I've had so many patients over the years where they focus on one thing. Like I've had patients who... And it affects women and men equally, boys and girls equally. Usually starts in adolescence. At that tender age, you're looking for acceptance. That's when there are these stages of development. Eric Erickson, we're around that.
pre-present age you're just trying to figure out where you fit in life but if someone is mean enough or even if they don't realize they would be mean to point out that that made you unlovable or unacceptable that
Adolescent brain views rejection as being physically stabbed. So when you look at the brain of an adolescent who's being rejected... and ridiculed the same parts of the brain light up as if you were being like killed you know versus adults it's not as intense so that is why bullying is so problematic because when you're that young
Being accepted is so important because that's when you're building your identity and who you are. And if you had a major wound during that time and someone says, you're not lovable because you're short or you're ugly or you're fat or you're like funny face. and then you're rejected because of it, that sticks with you. It not only sticks with you, it becomes part of the wiring for why you are constantly harping on yourself.
That's what I meant when I said you weren't born this way. Somebody taught you to think this way. And the good news about recognizing that somebody else taught you to reject yourself is that you can un- Learn it. And that's why before we can go forward, we got to go backward and really identify. This is not how I talked to myself when I was little. This is how. Some jerks talk to me and then I just adopted it. And it's important to really understand that this fused because she just told you.
That when this happens to a child, a child's ridiculed or rejected when you were ridiculed or rejected as a child. The brain lights up the same way as it does when you're physically injured. And it's important to understand that because you don't just brush it off. It becomes part of the wiring and the belief system.
That's how real this is. And so I'm sure you're thinking, okay, I got this. It's culture's problem. I'm not designed to stare at myself. Check, step one. Step two, I got to go backwards and accept the fact that somebody taught me. to criticize myself, and I'm now going to unlearn it. So what is step three? Well, for step three, we are going to go to Dr. Ash, because now that you've traced the roots of it, I want you...
to do something different. And it's important for you to understand that the tool that you're about to use, Dr. Ash has been using in her clinical practice for over 20 years in the Harvard Medical School system. And so let's hear from Dr. Ash what she wants you to do, because what she's about to share is powerful. And in order to stop rejecting yourself,
You have to build a belief system that is rooted in self-compassion and self-acceptance, and we got to delete the shame. So check out what Dr. Ash has to say. I can tell you I've been practicing for nearly 20 years now, seeing patients, and I've observed that whatever people bring to the table, anxiety, depression, trauma, panic, they're always core beliefs.
A core belief is the fundamental in brain belief that people have that give rise to all the other elements of negative self-talk. It's kind of like the trunk of a tree. right? The root that's there. The tree gives rise to the branches and the leaves and all the negative thoughts emerge from them. The three most common core beliefs are I am unlovable, I am unworthy, I am helpless.
And what we have to do is, as I mentioned, and train our minds to challenge those beliefs. In cognitive behavioral therapy, what you learn to do is engage in cognitive restructuring. What you have to do in cognitive restructuring is start questioning the core beliefs or the underlying thought. You have to turn that inner self-critic on.
the inner self critic, if that makes any sense. You have to start questioning the questioning. And what do you get when you put two negatives together? A positive. So let's say... that person who's really unhappy with themselves, what if you practice with them this cognitive restructuring where you say, what's the evidence for that? Are you thinking based on your facts or your feelings? And what could you think in place of that thought? That's where self-compassion and affirmation also comes in.
Affirmations are these alternative thoughts or beliefs that we can have about ourselves. Everyone needs at least one affirmation. I'll tell you personally, my affirmation is keep going. Just keep going, okay? Everyone needs to have underlying thought that's alternative. It's an alternative to the poor belief.
that they think in place of the plural core belief. But it has to be believable. Can't be somebody else's. You got to ask yourself, what can I say to myself that I can believe, that I can really get behind and say, in place of the negative four beliefs. Now, I do want to point out, these are strategies that take practice and they take time and they take energy. You have to do it every single day. I'm glad that you said that.
Because you have been repeating this self-criticism every single day. And so if you've been doing this your entire life, you got to give it more than a week, okay? This is not like I say this once. This has to become the new pattern. And so this is the tool that Dr. Ash has been using for over 20 years. And that tool is, let's create a meaningful mantra. Okay, you ready? Number one.
It must be something you believe right now. We're not gaslighting. We are reprogramming. And number two, it must give you a feeling of relief. Even if it's just like a... And the reason why this is so important is because you're so used to criticizing yourself so that if you're like, I love my body, I love myself, your brain's going to be like, no, we don't. We have been criticizing ourselves for 20 years. I don't believe that garbage. So you got to start with something real, okay?
You have to say something you truly believe. And so let me give you some examples of meaningful mantras, some of the things that Dr. Ash uses. I'm getting better every day. Today is going to be a good day. I'm proud that I'm trying to be kinder to myself I can do things that feel difficult I can stop criticizing myself I deserve to feel good about myself I deserve to look in the mirror and see a person that I care about
I am a good person. I try really hard. Every day I am doing my best. If I learn to be kinder to myself, the world's going to open up to me. Notice something? It doesn't matter if your pants fit. It doesn't matter if you've made mistakes. It doesn't matter if you have wrinkles or not, if you have acne or freckles. These statements are still true. You are a good person. You do deserve to feel good in your body.
You are practicing being kinder to yourself. You do deserve to have somebody see the best in you. And so when you say these tiny little things, don't you feel a little relief? And it feels so much better than trashing yourself. That right there, that's all you need to do. That is just a little toe opening up the door to help you rewire your brain.
One small mantra, one small thought, one moment of grace at a time. Because that's how real change happens, little by little. As you choose to lift yourself up instead of constantly tearing yourself. down and let's move on to step number four. And step number four is you got to stop waiting and start living. And at this point in the conversation, I feel like I have permission to be direct with you.
you're going to hate step number four. And you're going to hate it because you have been waiting. You've been holding yourself back from really enjoying your life and experiencing all that your life has to offer and going for it in life.
Every single time you stand in the back of the photo, every time you don't post your art or your real estate business, every time you decline an invitation because you don't want to be seen at the beach, or you cancel a date because... you're having a bad breakout on your face, or you're worried about being intimate because you don't want somebody to see how you're going to look in the morning without your makeup, or you sit silently at work.
because you think your voice sounds weird and so you don't want to say something. That's really what today's conversation is about. Every one of these examples is you not allowing yourself to live your life. It's not other people that are judging you. When you stop yourself from living your life fully, you're the one judging yourself. Think about that. When you cover up your acne scars with filters.
that's judgment. When you stand in the back of the photo, that's judgment. When you sit silently at work and don't speak up, that's judgment. When you cancel the date or you cancel the plans because you just don't like how you look. That's judgment. And you've probably brushed it off. It is a big deal. Because every time you hide, every time you avoid, every time you silence yourself, you're rejecting yourself.
You're saying I'm not good enough to be seen. You're saying I don't belong up front. You're saying this person is probably going to reject me if I show up on a date and I look like my... normal self, so I'm going to reject myself first by covering up what I actually look like. I get it. You think that somebody's going to judge you. The truth is, you've already judged yourself.
That's why this is awful. And I want you to really sit with that, the weight of that, because it's heartbreaking. But if you can be honest with yourself, if you can come up with, like, what's a way that you're keeping yourself from fully living your life and enjoying it? I don't go to the beach because I don't want to be in a bathing suit. If you can be honest, this insight is empowering. Because if you have the power to reject yourself, you also have the power.
to support yourself. And I want you to hear Dr. Ash because she's adamant that you got to stop waiting and start living now as you are. This fourth step is the key to healing and to taking your life back. Check out what she has to say. When we expose ourselves. We then become desensitized to our underlying thoughts and beliefs, right? So let's say...
You've got a fear of spiders. Until you touch a spider and you're around the spider, you're not going to be able to convince yourself that spiders are okay. And that has to do with, again, the primordial brain. Remember when I told you that self-criticism is a function of evolutionary adaptation and this idea that we're going to remember the fear and we're going to sense the fear and that's going to be ingrained in our brains. We have to expose ourselves to be able.
to desensitize ourselves to those underlying thoughts because you see our brain evolve right we then developed our cortical and frontal lobe structures, okay? And that's when we started having all those tightly held beliefs that you mentioned. So you got to go back to the primarginal brain and expose yourself.
So I'm going to take that person, I'm going to drag them to the beach, and then I'm going to make them document how many people are actually judging them. And when we find out that people are not judging them, okay? That's going to be an exposure. I'm going to ask them about the evidence. What's the evidence that someone is actually judging you? Tell me. Convince me. Turn the inner self-critic on the self-critic.
And you're not going to want to do this because you have spent years telling yourself, oh, I need to lose weight in secret before I can exercise in public. If you have been waiting to change until you'll put a bathing suit on in front of your friends, go. to the pool party. Apply for the job, regardless of what your voice sounds like.
Walk into the room, even though you're not sure you belong. Go to the damn beach for crying out loud. Start standing in the front of the photos. Smile at somebody in the checkout line. Forget about the good or bad side. Just jump in the photo. Because acceptance doesn't start with a mirror. It starts with permission. Giving yourself permission to stand at the front of the photo. Permission to wear the damn swimsuit. Permission to be short and date everybody.
And love yourself every step of the way. Permission to show up without shrinking, without apologizing. I mean, that's where everything begins to shift when you stop holding this impossible standard over your head and you start living your life. by the way, the life that's been waiting for you all along, because you're not here to keep repeating the old story, the crap people told you when you were 12 or you were in...
16 or 18, you're here to interrupt that garbage and finally start writing a new story. Because here's what the research shows. The number one predictor of how happy and fulfilled you are has nothing to do with your weight, your skin, your success, your appearance. Nothing. Nothing. Number one predictor, self-acceptance. Mm-hmm.
Happiness is tied to how kind you are to yourself. Because if you can't be kind to yourself now while you have acne, while you're the height that you are, while your hair is not the style that you want it to be. You're not going to magically be kind to yourself later, period. And this is what Dr. Judas' research shows too.
She has this groundbreaking happiness lab where she's doing all this research. And I want you to hear what Dr. Judith has to say about why you cannot keep delaying your happiness and why you need to start accessing joy right now. A lot of the research shows that when people delay happiness until, right, I'll be happy when I grow taller. I'll be happy when I no longer have acne. I'll be happy when I lose five pounds or 10 pounds or whatever it is. You still won't be happy.
when you get those things. And it requires a shift, small shifts. Instead of delaying, start to access points of joy every day. This is, you know... what my research is based on. How do you access the points of joy? So for someone who struggles with the way they look and being able to at least have some love in life, what are the things that actually...
make you feel relaxed, you know, because being relaxed and less stressed is actually a point of joy because this person sounds like they worry a lot. So what are the things that you are grateful for? You know, are you someone who helps people every day? Are you someone who is a good listener? That's a point of joy. Are you someone who likes to have savory meals, sit and eat and taste the flavors, right? Because a lot of times when you delay happiness for things...
that may happen in the future, you're still not going to be happy. Even if you grow tall, you're still not going to be happy. And I think that it's really helpful to look at these testimonies from people who are in their 90s or 80s or close to, you know.
moving on from this earth, the things that they regret most aren't things like, I wish I were tall or I wish I were beautiful. It's, you know, I wish I learned that to play that piano because I love music or I wish I saw that sunset one more time. Or, you know, I wish I spent time with the people that I love. They're not thinking, man, like if I had five more minutes on this earth, I'd like to have less acne. That hits, Dr. Judith. That hits all right. It's true, isn't it?
If you had five more minutes left, you wouldn't wish for clearer skin. You wouldn't want longer legs or a flatter stomach. You would have wished you had allowed yourself to live more. You would have wished you had allowed yourself to be happy, to have gone for the greatest love. You wish you would have laughed more, been present for the moments that mattered instead of up in your head, picking yourself apart.
What Dr. Judith said right there, that's the shift. That's what we're actually talking about. It's so much bigger than learning how to stop criticizing. We're actually talking about how to learn. how to allow yourself to be happy. And look, you're not alone. Everybody criticizes themselves. Everybody holds this over their heads. But now you're empowered.
Now you know there is a different future that is waiting for me right now. Because every time that you show up for yourself and you build that kind of relationship with yourself and you allow yourself. to experience life. You allow joy and love to come in. Nobody can take that away from you. And that is a beautiful thing.
And in case no one else told you today, I also wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you. I love you exactly as you look right now, exactly as you are right now. To me, you are. Perfectly, imperfectly beautiful. I believe that. And I also believe in you. I believe in your ability to create a life.
That is better. A life where you feel accepted by yourself. And after everything that you learned today, holy cow, you have the advice, you have all this new insight, you have tools, you have the truth. And now it's time for you to put it into practice. And I hope you do. As your friend, I really hope you do. Alrighty. I'll see you in the very next episode. I will be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play. The arrow goes down in that way. So there you go. You know who created this?
A man. Yes! There we go. A little bit bigger for Grandma over here. I am binge-watching White Lotus Season 3, and I have two more episodes to go, so don't blow it. My biggest pet peeve. That's going to be so fun. Great job, everybody. Bye, guys. Excellent show. What a great episode. Oh, and one more thing. I know.
This is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend, I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.