To the second hour of the show. Anthony Rodriguez has turned into a pumpkin and has turned into zach Seeger for the next two hours. But that's okay because we have two more hours, not just four minutes, two more hours and joining me in the studio. Now, he used to be a police chief, but now he's just a guy without a uniform. His name is Paul Paysan, and he also happens to be a public safety fellow with
a Common Sense Institute. Now, if you don't know what common Sense does, they look at the economic impact of a variety of different things, and in this case we're going to be talking about public safety. They also, in this study that we're going to talk about, look at the results of policies that are utilized by government in order to try and fight crime, or in some cases in Colorado, I would argue, make crime easier and more convenient for criminals. So, first of all, welcome to the show.
Appreciate you coming in, Mandy, thank you, it's an honor to be here. And love the introduction. You actually nailed it.
A man without a uniform there you get You're doing all right. Let's talk about this Colorado's crime and Aurora's experience with auto theft and guys. I promoted a different study because I asked the chief, I said, well, what study are we talking about today? Because I looked at the title of paperwork he's got and he said, oh, it's this one. I read this study. I just didn't promote his study. So if it makes you me seem crazy, well I'll just all.
Cop to that.
So this study specifically was about Aurora's experience with auto theft. We know that Colorado was number one in the country for auto thefts just like a year or two ago, Aurora decided to try and do something about it. Tell me first of all what they decided.
To do well, it was a dubious title that no state would want to have number one in the entire country for auto theft, and that is per kapup per one hundred thousand residents.
We didn't get.
There on accident and really bad policy equals bad outcomes. We used to be one of the safest states in the entire country, with crime rates including auto theft, at or below.
The national average.
After we made some statewide policy changes, some state statute changes, we saw dramatic increases, not just in auto theft, but in property crimes, total crimes, and violent crimes. Now Aurora said, hey, we're not going to tolerate this anymore. And kudos to them for standing up and saying this is not what we want for the people that live, work, in play in our community, and they enacted a tough city ordinance to address auto theft and with.
The Resultsman, because it's very frustrating for me, and we've seen this happen so much in the legislature. Whenever you talk about making crime more difficult, there's always this little group of harpies in the background that said more cops does not equal less crime. We know, we have statistics, and I get wanting to allow people to have a chance. I get having a system where rehabilitation is a part
of it, a big part of it. But what I don't get is the notion that somehow we're going to make excuses for people that are going to commit crimes before they even commit them and then let them off the.
Hook, which is what we did with gar theft. That's exactly that, Mandy. I wish I could just take you with me and you could rephrase that or say that over and over again. Because that's exactly what happened in the state of Colorado. I am the first one to raise my hand and say I believe in rehabilitation. However, I believe in accountability. And if we make excuses for criminal behavior, we are going to continue to see outpaced
crime rates greater than the national average. And what Common Sense Institute does is it looks at the economic impact now crime and the fear of crime drives the behavior of a community.
If people are afraid to live, work, or play.
In a community, to go to work, to go to the grocery store, to cross the street and go to the park, they're going to make different choices. And sometimes those choices are no longer being residents of the beautiful state of Colorado. They will move to places where they feel safer, where that economic impact isn't as pronounced as it is here.
I have a tiny anecdote about this. Yesterday I posted something on the blog about Auroras having an international food festival and they want looking for nominations. Just gott a throwaway story. I got an email that said I would never go eat in Aura because I love a war's food scene. I think it's amazing. It's all these international flavors and I would never go eat in Aurora. That's the kind of perception issue that has a direct economic impact. Is that kind of what you're talking about here.
That's exactly it. If you do not prioritize public safety, If people don't feel safe in your community, they will not go and shop in your city, they will not live in your city. They will make choices based on safety safety Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It's foundational governments first role is the protection, safety and security of its residents, and we.
Have to prioritize that.
And that hasn't been the priority for the elected officials, the decision makers, the people in power, who have watered down who've made excuses for criminal behavior, who have erased a lot of the accountability, not just for auto theft, but we're talking about hard drugs like fentanyl, cocaine, methamphetamine
that we've watered down penalties. We've also watered down penalties went with regards to bond and letting people out on serious crimes on PR bonds or what they've done is they created monetary bonds of one dollar two dollars, which effectively is a PR bond. So when crime goes up and we don't hold people accountable.
We shouldn't be surprised.
So how is this worked out from Aurora in terms of how are their card safts different than the rest of the state, and especially say, I'd love to know their neighbors. What that looks like?
Oh, perfect intro into the report itself. So again in twenty twenty two, Aurora said, no more, We're not going to tolerate this. We are going to hold accountable individuals who steal that car from a young family that's struggling, a single mom who needs that car to get the kids to school, to go to the grocery store. They're going to say we will hold people accountable to include a mandatory jail sentence for individuals caught stealing cars.
And what the report has shown.
Is that they have a dramatic decrease in auto thefts in their city. The projected model is they have reduced auto thefts in Aurora during that time period by at least seven hundred and twenty three auto thefts. Wow, seven hundred and twenty three fewer victims of that particular crime. And what also gets missed in this is off in times a stolen car is involved in another higher level crimes, Yes,
higher level violent crimes. And if you're able to reduce seven hundred and twenty three crimes in your city, you're also impacting those higher level violent crimes. So they're making progress. And that's exactly what this report shows.
One of the things I've always wondered as just like a normal citizen who doesn't have a lot of contact with criminals that I know of, is are criminals are they up to speed on these laws? Because you know, you would think that, I mean a lot of these criminals are not the sharpest people in the sharpest tool in the shed, because they would be doing something more productive if they were. But they do know the laws, so do they know where they are? They're not going
to steal a car? And Aurora, is it that calculated?
It becomes that calculated when you publicly announced that we're going to hold people accountable, as George Brockler did recently with his new position. He put the boundaries up said hey, if you can make crimes in this area, I will hold you accountable to the fullest extent of the law. That is a deterrence effect that lets people know, hey, they're serious there, and that's exactly what Aurora did in twenty twenty two, and the report bears that out that
they're having greater success than the rest of the state. Now, I believe that their actions help push the state because the following year, the state of Colorado said, wait a minute, us defelonizing auto theft right excusing criminal behavior has had a negative impact on us.
That led to the.
Number one per Kappa crime in the entire country. And so they refelonized this crime and we saw a decrease in the.
Rest of the state.
However, Aurora's leadership in this help nudge the state of Colorado, and their results are better than what the state has done.
So, you guys have done studies in the past about specifically like how policies affect all of this stuff. Hasn't been consistent across all of these different studies that you've done. Do you see a consistent theme that when you invest more in law enforcement you see a lower rate of crime. Do we now have a statistical body of evidence that would.
Allow us to say that we at the Common Sense Institute, we really look at this from that economic picture frame market.
We want to make sure that we can.
Show cost benefit analysis that we're talking about here whether investing in public safety has those downstream positive impacts, and it does, it absolutely does.
So.
For example, the economic impact in Aurora of that reduction in auto thefts is more than sixteen million dollars that they have saved for their community. There is a cost per crime, and auto theft in particular, it's about fifteen thousand dollars in direct costs, but there's also indirect costs associated with the adjudication, investigation, incarceration that pushes that number
closer to twenty thousand per crime. Now, same way, if we utilized Aurora's approach for all crime in the state of Colorado, we would see a one point eight billion billion with a b dollar savings for the people of Colorado.
And that's just on the cost of the crime itself, right, And then we're not even talking about and I'm going to use downtown Denver as an example. You were police chief in Denver and I have spoken with police officers in Denver. I have some that email me on a regular basis, and they have been so frustrated over the years because they are arresting people and before they can
finish the paperwork, the people are already out again. It's been a very frustrating cycle, and now we see a situation in downtown Denver in my view, that we have enough of a perception a violent crime backed up by things like a fly attendant and a man being murdered on the sixteenth Street mall not too long ago, and yet I personally do not feel that either the Denversity Council nor the mayor are giving nearly enough credence to that public safety component. But I'll tell you this, I
don't drive my car downtown anymore. I don't go downtown for dinner and a show. I don't spend nearly as much time downtown as I did before because I don't know if my car is going to be broken into, or it's even going to be there when I get back, depending on where I am. So in terms of the economic impact of these crimes, I feel like I don't understand why people don't understand that should be the first piece to your point. What can citizens do to drive
the point home that? Because everybody's howling about public safety, but yet it seems to be bouncing off the people who can actually do something about it.
So thanks for sharing that, And actually, I think you are very articulately making the point that public safety matters right right, that people make decisions based on their safety and the safety of the people that they love and care about, and they make decisions on where they're going to shop, on where they're going to recreate based on safety needs as well.
So it is foundational.
That city governments, state governments, federal governments must protect their citizenry. That is first and foremost for people to have a high quality of life. Now, all of that being said, this report is actually quite timely. What can citizens do? What can community members do when they realize that the public safety really is a critical component of their overall quality of life is they can see how these laws
are impacting them. Right now as we speak, in the Colorado State legislature, they don't like what Aurora has done. They're enacting a bill that they will say, hey, cities, you.
Can't do this anymore.
Even though you're prioritizing public safe at a higher level than we do, you cannot do this moving forward. And there's legislation where it says you cannot have penalties higher than what.
The state does.
Well, what I will tell you is if we're leaving public safety up to the folks in the state legislature who have made these watered down laws beginning in.
Twenty eighteen nineteen.
Twenty twenty, the laws that mandate that repeat offenders must be released from jail within four hours, How does that.
Make any sense?
How does it make anyone safer?
Exactly? And when they defelainize fentanol, the most deadly poisoned drug that we have, it used to be a felony. They thought it was a good idea to turn it.
Into a misdemeanor.
Meth Amphetamine, cocaine, heroin, deadly serious drugs they have decategorized defelinized.
And what this shows is.
This is one city's attempt to take public safety seriously and they're having positive results. What should be happening is folks saying, wait, we can hold people accountable, we can reduce crime, and yes, we can also focus on rehabilitation on the backside, so that when this person gets out, they're not stealing cars in the future. But you still have to hold them accountable for those criminal actions.
That they took in the first place.
Wouldn't it be ironic if essentially the same makeup the legislature that made it easier for communities to make it harder for a citizen to own a gun then decided that the communities can't make it harder for criminals to do a crime. That's where we are in Colorado. It is so it doesn't make any sense to me. It's super frustrating. We got a text message on the Common Spirit Health text line you can text your questions in at five sixty six nine. Oh, this texter said, Hey, Mandy,
former addict and criminal here. If I wasn't held accountable, I wouldn't be able to say former And I think that you know what is your take? And on the economic impact? Oh, actually, somebody just asked this question. Hey Mandy, please ask Paul if he thinks marijuana becoming decriminalized as
a major player in the crimes rise here. Have you guys studied the criminal economic impact of legalization, because that's you know, I'm a libertarian, small l libertarian at heart, right, So I was like, sure, legalized pot, seeing what it's done to Denver and seeing what has changed here since even I moved here in twenty thirteen, because in part coincidentally, at the same time, I'm not sure to feel that way anymore. You know, have you guys analyzed the impact economically of that decision.
Yes. Actually, it's a very recent report and a fellow fellow I love saying, fellow fellow Mitch Morrissey. He's the former DA attorney in Denver, and this report is no more than a month old, and it looks at marijuana as well as the impact that marijuana has on additional drugs the costs associated with that. One area that truly is underreported, that it's not talked about enough is the direct link between high potency THC and the increased levels
in psychosis. It is causing mental health crisises in communities where you see, in particular, there's a Mayo clinic report, a Cleveland clinic, additional studies that are coming out on a regular basis that are saying this is driving psychosis mental health diagnoses, particularly in boys age sixteen to twenty four. So we are causing more harm in our community by having the essentially the wild wild West. It's unregulated the amount of THCHC, and that is causing long term harms in our society.
Fascinating stuff. They're doing all of this stuff at the common Sense Institute, and it's not all of about crime. I mean, you guys really do. And I love the way the reports are written in such a way that you can draw your own conclusions. You're not sitting here telling people here's what the data is, and here's what you should think it is. Here's what the data is. You can make your own choices in your own decisions. So Paul Pasan so appreciates you coming in on this issue.
And I'm a huge fan of what's happening in Aurora. In my job, one of the things I get to do is I get to choose to watch things. When I first got my first show in two thousand and five, one of the first things I talked about was Venezuela at the time, still under Hugo Chavez, and I told my listeners, you guys, we're going to get to see the fall of this country in real time because everything that I saw, they were headed off a cliff and
we've gotten to do that. I'm watching, and have been watching, what's happening in Aurora under an aggressive city council, under a supportive mayor who really want to provide a vibrant, safe, beautiful place for people. To live in Aurora, Colorado, and I think it's a fascinating sort of side by side study with Aurora and Denver. I think that's going to be something to watch going forward, whether it's how they're dealing with homelessness, how they're dealing with all of the
other issues. It's just we have this real time case study and we get to watch it from afar and hope everything works out.
You're exactly right on that, and I think that you know, as you described and whether or not people will go there for the International Food Festival things of that nature, they'll go there if they feel safe.
Yeah, and they'll go to downtown Denver if they feel.
Safe, exactly. And this is showing that they're taking it serious. Some of the recent policy changes that they publicly announce.
They're saying it.
Publicly, and why are they saying it publicly? To provide that deterrence impact and reduce the crime from prevent the crime from occurring in the first place.
And that's why you had George Brockler surrounded by law enforcement officers having a press conference to say, if you come to the twenty third and do something, you're going to jail.
That's exactly it and I.
Live in the twenty third, so I'm here for it. Here board former chief Paul Paige, and I really appreciate your time today. Thank you so much for coming in. And this is great work coming out of the Common Senses. And Ross Whiskey is now an economic fellow there, so that's kind kind of some I got one more question, Mandy. Can you ask if the use of pot has any connection to the use of hard drugs. Is that something you guys have looked at in terms of the Gateway drug situation.
Yes, and I would encourage folks to take a look at that most recent report from Mitch Morrissey. It's very detailed. It shows exactly in line graphs how the impact of marijuana has had on the more dangerous, more serious the types of drugs that have killed, poisoned so many of our fellow Coloradoms.
I put a link to this report about a war, but you can also that's going to take your right to common sense this website, so you can go ahead and check it out there. We will talk again in the future, sir. We will be right back. Keep it on KOA