Welcome back to The How To Podcast Series Podcast Growth Nation. You will be listening to somebody you know very well. This gentleman shows up in a Zoom room singing. He comes into the room singing and it's the best thing ever. Kevin Palmieri is on the podcast. I've been listening to Podcast Growth University. I've done every episode to date. So I'm waiting for the next episode. I'm glad to have Kevin on the show. You filled my mind with great podcast knowledge.
Kevin, it's the thrill to have you here. Welcome to The How To Podcast Series. I get to do a lot of interviews Dave and I am just super grateful to chat with you because you're really good human. You're super humble. You're super hungry. You're funny. You're just a good person. And I appreciate you listening to all the episodes and I appreciate what you're doing. So thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to see where we go. Good. My wife finds me mildly entertaining from a safe distance. That's what she says. So there you go. That's what I love it.
Kevin, you are not just the host of one podcast or those of two amazing podcasts and you do a lot of podcasting like a lot of podcasting. I am so jealous of your path and I'm excited to have you here. Can you tell us about your two shows? Let's just start with that as an overview for first time people hearing your voice. There's a lot for them to listen to, but tell us about your two shows. Yeah. So one show is next level university. We have 1760 episodes.
I think as of today we do an episode every day and that show is focused on holistic self improvement for dream chasers. So we talk about self belief self worth habits. We want to help people get to the next level of their life, no matter where they are currently.
So that's that's next level you and that's paved the way for what I get to do on the day to day basis. So that's that it's amazing. And then podcast growth you is a podcast that helps podcasters grow scale monetize their podcasts, but also. I don't know. I feel like I tend to go into the weeds and talk about being a better speaker, interviewing better, being more creative that type of stuff. So it's not just here. The five things going on in the podcast industry.
I like talking more to the human than the industry itself. And that's podcast growth you and that show. Yeah. And so how old is next level university 2017 started and then how old is podcast growth university. Oh podcast growth you is just a wee baby. I think we're two years in I think we're 106 episodes in. So little over two years. Excellent. And you've now turned all of this into a career. You have an amazing team that you work with that support you in all of this.
A shout out to your team to as well. I like to free it. I've seen on your website. I they're all listed there, but this amazing group of people. What do they mean to you? Oh man. As as anyone probably feels in the beginning, it's really hard to get people to lean into your somewhat delusional goals. And our team has believed in us since the very, very, very beginning for for the team. It's not about having a job or a position. Everybody is into self improvement. Everybody tracks habits.
Everybody wants to become the best versions of themselves. And I think everybody finds so much purpose in serving an amazing community. And I love the fact that you wanted to give them a shout out because I get to be on interviews all the time. But there's a lot of things happening behind the scenes that nobody will ever see.
And it affords me the opportunity and privilege to do this. So yes, couldn't do without the team. The most aligned humans on the planet. And I would put our team up against any team on the planet. Excellent. And you also help podcasters as well. Talk a little bit about that. It gets to the point where I don't know. I think we're like three or 400 episodes in. And one of my mentors at the time said, hey, I know someone who wants to start a podcast. You should help him.
And I said, I don't know what gives you the wild idea that I have any idea what I'm doing. And he said, well, you have a bunch of episodes. You've done this. You know how to do it. You know the ins and outs of it. You should help. And I said, all right, I'll see. I'll see what it looks like. And that became our first production slash coaching client. And since then we've launched hundreds of podcasts and we have constant shows that we're producing.
So yeah, the ultimate goal is I wish I knew what I know now at the beginning. Then I really wish that somebody would have told me what to expect. I really wish somebody sat me down and said, kev, don't expect almost anything to happen for the first couple of years. And just work on your craft and get better and get better and get better. And that's who I aspire to be when I'm coaching people.
I don't have a, I don't have the magic bullet. I don't have a one thing will fix everything. I talk about the unsexy fundamentals. And that is me and my coaching and a nutshell. Do you have a lot of chair time? You have a lot of time behind a microphone in your face. Whether leading the conversation or being a guest, you've learned a lot. And I hear it on your podcast. The things you share with us as listeners. So helpful. So instruct.
They just said you learn so much from someone who's further down the path than you are. Give us some ideas for people who want to be guests on podcasts. I think all podcasts you should guess as much as possible. Whenever they can get out there and be in the passenger seat. It's a different side of podcasting that you need to understand. But from your perspective as a host and a guest, you've got some great insights you can share with us.
I'm turning the podcast over to you, Kevin. I just want to listen to you because again, I'm selfishly. I get to have you every time with me in my, in my ears at work. But now I get you on my screen. So I'm going to pull every nugget out of you. I can please, please. So for those that are contemplating being a guest as a podcaster. What kind of things can you share with us? Good practices. Good things you've seen in the space to help us be better at podcast casting.
A good practice. One where a lot of people get stuck just in part in the way I say it. Eliminate any entitlement you have when you're reaching out to be on podcasts. I go on shows all the time where it's literally their first episode. I don't care. I don't care how many listens you have. Dave, I didn't ask you how many, I don't care. I want to get really good at podcasting and the best way to get really good at podcasting is just to do more episodes than anyone else.
So we have to identify what is the ultimate goal? Are you doing this as a podcast guest to get listens? Are you doing it to make money or are you doing it to really, really practice your craft and impact people because that's going to dictate what shows you do, what shows you don't do. I cannot speak highly enough to the platforms that are out there now to get interviews and be interviewed pod match matchmaker dot FM podcast guests dot com is like an email service.
It's the easiest. It's ever been to get on shows. It's very, very, very easy. This is a huge differentiator. Yes, in an ideal world, the host is going to research you before you guest on their show. But you should also research the show so you know exactly how it's going to go and you can speak eloquently to who the audience is, what you want them to take away.
That's something that I've noticed a lot of people don't do. They just show up. It's on their calendar. They click the link. They end up in the zoom room and then they're there. I do research for every single show. And you and I had a pre call and when we when I rolled in, you were telling me about how you had the Christmas holiday podcast and all these other ones. And I already knew that because I already looked at your website and all that stuff. But I think that's a differentiator.
Don't do not go immediately into your products and services and try to sell. Don't do that. Add value, add value, add value. Depending on what the podcast is really, really have your story down because that's the majority of people, depending on what niche you're in, but the majority of people are going to say what's your story. And you want to have a five minute version, a 10 minute version of 15 minute version, depending on the length of time. So yeah, those would all be the two do's for sure.
But if I could only leave you with one, it would be research the show like you were the one doing in the interview because it's going to help. And it might save you misaligned interviews. I had an interview this Friday. And yesterday I was looking over my schedule for the week and I saw this one on Friday and I was like, let me check this out. And it wasn't aligned. So I messaged the team and I said, Hey, can we can this? I don't want to do it. It's not.
It's not my type of show. Rather than me having that hour blocked off doing it, it being misaligned and kind of throwing my day off. You know, a little research goes a long way. Yeah, I see you in my Instagram. I'm like, Oh, there's Kevin. I see how he's like looking at this. He's looking at that. I'm like, well, okay. Well, that's good. You're a man of your word. I try my best.
One thing I noticed in podcast growth university is you put in a little testimonial kind of midway through your podcast episode. And it's somebody from your community that's worked with you and they're giving you a reference. They're speaking about what you do and how you've helped them. I love it. You didn't even mention that, Oh, here, let's take a break. Everyone we're going to go to a testimony about me, right? You just put it in there and you're right back to it again.
And I really like how you do that. Thank you. It the thought was it would be really easy for me to promote myself, but everybody promotes themselves. So if somebody else is willing to give me a video and audio testimonial, I think that speaks to the services more than anything. I'm going to say. If you can get a client to send you a video about your experience, that is the way to do it. And my my thesis has always been most people skip the intro.
So if you have ads at the beginning, your own ads, nobody's going to hear them. And then a lot of people get it to the end and they're they give like their best call to action. And a lot of people are already gone. I think the middle is the best place to put it because you know people are at least listening. So I appreciate that. I appreciate that very much.
And then the other value that I love from you is something I've been trying to do from the early days of my show, but you do it to a different degree. And I love it is your value out of having time with you and your calendar. So the sales pitch, it's not about you're not trying to sell them a program or a service. You just want to talk to your audience. And I love that you do that. That was intentional from episode one, right? That's how we grew next level you.
In the in the very beginning day, and I didn't have a product. I didn't have a service. I wasn't coaching. I would literally so somebody would share something about the podcast on Instagram. I would see it because they would tag us. I would send them a DM and I would say Dave, thank you so very much for sharing. I would love to hop on a FaceTime call so I can get to know you more and figure out your life experience and how we can add value to what you're going through in the podcast.
And I would just give people my phone or and then I would jump on FaceTime and I would take notes. Yeah. And then eventually that led to coaching and all that stuff. But in the beginning, it was just I have the time. I'm not super busy. I'm not successful at all. So I have nothing but time really. And I think that podcasting a lot of people start podcasts because they want to scale their voice. And I love that.
But I do believe that one on one time face to face that is hyper unscalable is always going to be the most valuable way to do it. I just I believe that. And I think at this to this point, I've done 300 close to 300 podcasts break through sessions. And I've learned so much. I get to learn so much about people. Now, did some of those people end up being clients? Yes. Some said, hey, what does it look like working with you? Awesome.
But the majority of them, it was just how can I add value to your life? Another another thing under that. It also, it also leverages you and puts you in the position of the expert. If you listen to someone's podcast, then you go on a free call with them. Eventually, if you ever do decide to work with someone in that industry, it's probably going to be the person who you listen to their podcast and you've already done a call with. And there's something to that psychologically as well.
I have a greater appreciation for pickles after listening to your podcast. Why is that safe? So those who haven't heard, yeah, I've never thought I look at my fridge today and pickles were there. I smiled and I thought of you. Now, people are like, Dave, what the heck are you talking about? I can summarize it, but obviously you're the one that decided first.
But similarly, simply that self editing yourself instead of relying on post editing, where you take out all the ums and aes, you get up on stage in front of an audience. You don't have someone editing your content. It's you in person live in front of an audience. There's no way to take out those ums and us. So the best way to know that you do too many of them, like my so's or I love that.
All those things that I say, my default settings to fill time or get ready for the next question, I'm aware of them. And because of you, you gave us an exercise simply when you say an um, say the word pickle after. So that becomes more aware of the fact that you're using these little crutch words. And I smile every time I see pickles now because of you. Is that it? Did I capture that? Is there more to capture it? Okay. 100% it all I had a client and we would be on coaching calls.
And I would notice that he would say um and he had no idea he was saying. He had no clue that it was happening. And I said, he said, um, one time and I said pickle. And he looked up at me and he said, what'd you say? And I said, pickle. He said, why do you say pickle? And I said, every time you say, um, I want you to say pickle. Because it's going to stop you from saying it. And that helped him that helped him out tremendously.
But I understand why people don't want to do that because that's a very, very long game thing. Understandably, if you're, if you want to do a lot of episodes and you're focused on getting better at the craft, the best way to do it is just not edit anything. If you mess up horribly, sure, but we do the podcast, we upload it. The team gets it. They add the intro, the adjure, they do the leveling and all that happy jazz to make it sound good. We never edit anything in 1700 and something episodes.
We've probably edited. I don't know. 10 things out. But it was never an um, a like, but I say interesting often. That's one of mine. It's almost like I say that often. So we all have crutches that we're working through. It just starts from a place of awareness. As soon as you said happy jazz, I got happy because that's one of the things I caught from you. I'm like, it's just happy jazz. I'm like, I'm using that now because of you. You're in my brain. I know it's, it's, it's sickening, isn't it?
But that's, that's really, that's a really good for lack of better phrase testimonial for a podcast. When people listen to you, they feel like they know you. Right. And that becomes the beauty of it is you can really, really impact someone. They trust you. If they're going to give you an hour of their day every week, that's trust. We value our time. See, that's, that's what I love about your show.
For you with this many episodes, Kevin, you've been on again as a host and as a guest all over the place. There's got to be an answer to this question from your perspective. Because of a podcast, can you fill in the blank? Because of a podcast blank, something happened for you. You're a different person. Something happened, but because of a podcast and then can you just fill it in for me?
Because of a podcast, you will face fears that you didn't know you had to and you will understand yourself at a deeper level for sure. You're going to learn more about yourself than anybody else is going to learn about anything. That's the podcasting people ask, why do you love podcasting so much? I couldn't tell you, we don't have enough time. But the simplest thing is it is changed my life, not just externally from a business success perspective.
If anything, it's more internal from a place of fulfillment, self-awareness and self-reflection. And it, it's just a really good test. Another, another episode. Let me see what I can do. I like the challenge. I like the challenge. When people email me, they say, when do I send you over the questions? I say, you don't send me the questions. I don't want them. I don't want the questions. I want to do it. I want to have a conversation and see if I can handle it. I like that.
That's what I'm training for. So it'll change your life externally and internally more than you realize probably in as much as you let it. So I want to talk about making money with your podcast and all that because you're doing something very unique with this. But I want to set that aside for a second. Money aside, how can a podcast help you grow as a person from day one, episode one, to episode 1000? Plus how do you grow? How do you get better?
You kind of talked a little bit about it there, but how else does podcasting help you grow? Have guests on that you are very, very curious about and you're going to learn through osmosis and you get to ask the beautiful thing about a podcast is you get to have conversations with people that you never would for other reasons and you get to ask them whatever you want. That's a huge cheat code to learn more. Review your episodes.
I know most people don't like hearing that I understand I hated my voice. I didn't like the way I looked. I am numb to it now because it's all I see every day. But there is so much in listening to the way you talk. I still I don't review as much as I want to. I want to review every episode. It's hard. But I will find myself listening to an episode and I'll be doing a monologue and I'll think to myself. I really hope I save this next.
Sometimes I do but sometimes I don't when I don't that's a really good lesson for me. I don't know if I was in flow. I think I might have been somewhere else I should have connected to this point. So reviewing your content is a great way for you to see who you really are in live time. You're probably going to end up doing stuff that scares you.
If you get a big interview for someone that you look up to or if you're afraid of being on audio and video, you're going to have to face some fears and get outside your comfort zone. That's amazing. That's huge. You're going to have to learn more skills if you don't know how to audio edit. If you don't know how to video edit. If you don't know how to do production and you're not checking in with with Dave on that.
You're going to have to learn how to do that. So that's cool. It's a new skill set. Social media. That's a whole nother monster. So yeah, it's going to create necessity for you to do things that you would never have any other reason to do. I never wanted to learn how to video edit. That was never in the plan for me. But we wanted to do YouTube and make social media content. So I had to all of that stuff. I think it also it also can help you facilitate discipline.
Because in the beginning, it's this it's this thing that very little people believe in. Nobody really believed in what we were doing in the beginning understandable. It sounded wild. I get it. But it took a lot of discipline for me to say, well, I can't come to blank tonight because we have a really big interview. It made me feel like I was really on purpose and really focused and really intentional with all that I was doing. So those are yeah, those are some of the big ways.
I think the word growth in podcast growth university is there for a reason. There could have been a bunch of other words you could have thrown in there and just done a podcast. But that word growth is important. A lot of people asking, you know, Kevin, how do I grow my show? How do I grow my audience? And the one thing that I love about what you talk about is having your audience identify themselves to you.
Some way where there's social media, somehow they actually put their hand up and go, Kevin, I listen to your show. And that in that moment, you now have a connection with a listener. How can you expand on having your listener self identify? Can we talk about that? Yeah, self identification is the understanding that podcasts are great ways to build communities except it doesn't capture the community at all.
Dave and I could be listening to we could be neighbors and we could be listening to the same exact podcast. And unless I tell the host I'm listening, the host doesn't know. And unless I tell Dave I'm listening, Dave doesn't know. So from the beginning, we realized that there is a thousand people listening, but we only know 18 of them. Where are the other 900 and whatever it is, 82? Where are they? How do we find them?
I think a lot of people create a podcast and assume people are going to come out of the woodwork. I prefer the term you go find the people and you bring them back. Meaning they might already listen, but we haven't found them as listeners yet. So self identification, self identifying is creating an opportunity for someone to come out of the woodwork and say, I am listening to your show by joining a Facebook group or downloading a freebie or booking a free call or whatever it may be.
That way you actually have a name and a face for that person. The reason that this is so big and I didn't understand this in the beginning is when we have calls to action on the podcast. There's two types of calls to action. There is highest probability in this highest ROI. Highest probability is most people are not going to listen to your podcast and then buy your book or give you money.
But if you have an opportunity for them to come do something that's a little bit higher barrier to entry, but it's completely free. You might not be monetizing, but you are getting them to self identify, which means then you can build a real authentic connection.
And that's really I always think a Facebook group or a group in general is a really good way to do that because until Apple podcast or Spotify creates their own little social media land where all of your listeners follow you there and you can see them. Yeah, social media is going to be the best way to kind of encapsulate your audience for a podcaster with five, 10 listens brand new podcaster just starting out.
One of the suggestions I make to them is to focus on the listeners you have instead of set of worrying about the listeners you don't have. You know these people are showing up for you. They're gathering for you on a regular basis. You get in a small community like that a small group of listeners. You can probably figure out who they are easier than when you've been doing it for thousands of episodes. So you have this scalability in your in your favor in that moment.
So try to find out who they are. I did one thing on my podcast editing and support show. I noticed that I have a new listener in Germany for the last five of my 25 episodes new listener. He doesn't I can't see that listen in any of the older episodes just the last five. So the beginning of my episode I'm like, hey, everybody welcome to the show. I just want to call out I have a listener in this city in Germany. I see you.
I've seen that you've listened to the last five episodes. Thank you. I'd love to hear your voice. Head over to my speak pipe. Think link on my website. I want to hear what you sound like. I want to meet you. You know, and about three weeks later I get an email and I don't know who it's from. But it says speak pipe new message. I'm like, okay, so I press play. And it's like this guy's chuckling in the background. He's like, hello, David.
My name is Cimit Patel. I live in Germany. And it's me. I am the one listening to your show. And I'm like that moment of like the heavens started singing in the angels and all that. Right? Like I actually got the voice of a listener to actually respond. It was so cool. Right? That's so to whatever you can in the early days of your podcast to to get a voice, get a name, get something from that. But call them out. Just mention it. I had no idea what this person's name was.
I just took a shot in the dark that this might actually work. And it did. So try something like that. Well, even that mindset of, okay, you have five people that listen to your to each episode. That's a good thing because it's not that it's not as hard to find those five people. Right. And if we connect that, we did a poll in our Facebook group recently. So the next level university Facebook group. And the, well, it was a question. How did you find this podcast originally?
Because I wanted to, I wanted the data. I want to know where we got found. The number one way was word of mouth. So if you find the five people who listen to your show and you go above and beyond like Dave did, what are the odds? They don't tell one other person. Right. That, I think a lot of us are losing sight of how important word of mouth is. Word of mouth is so, so, so valuable. It is so valuable. And it is one of the things that you can probably influence more than you realize.
So powerful. That's a powerful lesson. Yeah, we can influence, but at the same time, it's completely out of our control. Because people are talking about us. We're not even in the room. Right. Hopefully good things. Hopefully good things. Yeah. One of the things I tried to Kevin on my show was I had somebody who listened to my show, started a podcast and then reached out to say, Hey, thanks Dave, because of you. I started a show. So what I did was I took their voice message from SpeakPipe again.
I created a mini episode just for them. I took their trailer. I took their voice message and then I asked my community to go show love to this new podcaster. And so I made a mini episode just about them. And the response back from that new podcaster with like two listens to be featured on another podcast, kind of a, you know, that kind of a moment. I had one woman in Australia who reached back out to me, it's crying and laughing at the same time.
Like I've never experienced, never anticipated this would ever happen to me. That someone would show kindness in this way, but the podcasting community is so great. I'm in. I'm going to do this. This is my thing now. And I just love being able to do that. The power of a podcast and communicating and connecting with community is such a powerful thing. I think we read we need to realize how important our podcast is and the influence we have to help others. Right.
It's very easy to lose sight of that when you're not hitting the goals you want. But if you remember what you used to think before you had a podcast and the podcast you listened to, if they reached out to you, you would have been it would have made your day. It would have made your day. I that's that's my frame of mind with this. I'm not a celebrity. I'm not a big deal by any stretch of the imagination. But Dave is listened to 106 episodes of one of my shows.
So the least I can do is add value in some way and then go above and beyond what is expected. Right. I'm not saying you have to send a personalized package. Here's 10 pounds of meat Dave with a little heart. I appreciate you. It's it's not necessarily that maybe it can be right. Maybe it can be, but it's it's doing something different. People say under promise and over deliver. I don't like under promise promise and over deliver.
Yeah. That's my my framing is promise and then over deliver because people remember that stuff. They may never remember something I said on a podcast episode. They may never remember an interview I did. But if I do reach out to them and I have a conversation with them, I'm willing to bet they'll remember that. And I will too. And that's the view of it. So as we grow our podcast as we continue down this path, we're building community. We're reaching out to people.
We're putting ourselves out there through Instagram messages, video messages. Did you talk about how else can we grow our show Kevin? What else is working for you? Man, I will be very transparent in saying that I think growing a podcast now is harder than it's ever been. I really, I really think it is harder going on other podcasts is great. But the conversion is probably less than you think. I always I always say that I I've been on 850 or close to 900 other shows.
We've gotten some listeners, but not as many as you think. If you just do the math that it makes sense, that's that's always good because you never know. I like just getting creative and figuring out, okay, what is your perceived area of expertise? So even if you aren't your let's say your 50 episodes in you get 50 listens per episode. Awesome. It's great. You're probably more successful than you think you are judging by based on the data.
What is your perceived area of expertise where you have credibility? Go outside of the podcast world, go outside of the social media world and try to get speaking engagements on that. Try to have conversations around that. Try to network with people around that. I am not a big networker. To a detriment. I think you getting creative and using your podcast as an opportunity to create other opportunities of success is going to help you grow your show. Because there is metrics of growth.
Some people when they think about growing the show, they think of listens. That's one way. I like subscribers. I think subscribers is a really good way to look at it. I also think dollars earned is a really good way to look at it. So it really depends on what you're trying to measure in terms of metrics. If you don't have a monetizable path, the amount of listens doesn't really matter that much. Obviously more listens is helpful, but not to a certain degree.
If you don't have that many subscribers, that's a suggestion that the listeners that you're attracting aren't sticking around. And if you're not making any meaningful revenue, it means that the runway probably isn't super long. You're not going to be able to do this for a long enough period of time. So even that question, I would throw back the point of growth to me is not one thing. It's really you figuring out what is the most important metric for you to measure.
And then maybe beyond growing your listens, listens, growing your listener. They might show up on episode 106, but they haven't heard episode one to 106. To descend them back into your catalog, which you do really well, you talk about what you've done in the past. You talk to what's coming up in the future. I know not every episode you do that, but you for the most part you do that almost all the time. Which sends me back into your catalog.
It makes me want to go listen to something that I've missed maybe as a new listener. We're trying something new. So this is this is very live. This is trying stuff and seeing how it works. I did a speech recently at a mastermind with Evan Carmichael in YouTube. And for those who might not know Evan, he is the YouTube guy in the self improvement space. But he's very big on the data. There's a lot of AB testing split testing on that stuff.
And he was talking about how if somebody sits through the first minute of your episode on YouTube, they are far more likely to sit through the whole thing. So we've tried on next level you to not talk about the previous episode and just get right into the episode to see if that helps with consumption rate. So I can report back Dave. You can reach out to me and shoot me an email and say, Kev, is it working out and then maybe you can add that to a future episode. But things have changed.
When we were doing one episode a week, it kind of makes sense to say, make sure you check out last week's episode. But now we do an episode every day. So it's like, I don't really know. You're going to go back and listen to yesterday's most people already are. So it's another one of those examples where the way you're doing your podcast is also very dependent on the strategies that you practice. It's a good point. It's a very good point. With that many episodes to start it up as one.
That's going to be a big ask. Great. Yeah. Yeah, even a hundred and however many that's a that's a big ask too. Yeah. But it's it's a little bit different. It's having a daily show. A lot of people love the sound of it and they're like, oh, that's the best thing ever. It's it's also harder to be sticky. Not everybody wants to grow every day. Right. Not everybody wants to get tough mirrors every single day. And we have some deep, deep conversations in year one of next level you.
We had one thousand and forty seven listens. I had I probably had at least that if not more with podcast growth you and I didn't do almost any promotion with podcast growth you. Wow. So it's just it's nitched. There's not that many shows about podcasting. Yeah. I didn't do any marketing. I don't have a website. I didn't do any SEO. It's just it just kind of worked that way. You never know. You never know. It's it's interesting. But I also didn't care.
I don't really care about how many downloads I get because I'm just going to do it forever and eventually it'll be more successful than it is today. Right. That's that's kind of my thought process. Okay. Do you see audience members moving back and forth between the two shows? Yeah. More than I expected. Okay. I did not I did not expect that to happen at all. That was never in my mind. I think I have a blind spot around how many people actually want to start a podcast. I just think to me.
Some people do, but I think it's probably a higher percentage than I ever really thought. And my business partner's been saying that's the beginning. It's like, have we have a lot of listeners who are going to want to start a podcast eventually. It's like, maybe I don't know. So for me, it was kind of a blind spot, but it's I've been pleasantly surprised with that. The way it's kind of worked is I go on a podcast. Oftentimes they come listen to podcast growth you.
Then they hear me reference next level you and then they come listen to it. Next level you and then sometimes they end up signing up for some service within NLU. So podcast growth you is monetized NLU, which is that's a whole other conversation. We paused our conversation around making money with your podcast. It's a big part of growing your show. People are really curious about that, especially new podcasters. So there's a various ways you can do this.
I've set up a bimey a coffee on my page and been doing really well with that. I read I take that money and reinvest it in other podcasters. I have a job so I really don't need that, but I use it as an engagement piece for people who do want to support the show, but I give them an easy way to do it. So that's their setup, but I really don't have any ads or anything. But for you, you've actually done this really, really well. And I really admire how you've done this and how you frame this.
But talk to us about making money with our show. For those that have a coaching slant to what they do, this is going to work really well for you. But can you give us an overview as we kind of get in close to the end here? Yeah, the ultimate thought is if you don't have a podcast yet, make the podcast about something that you can add value to your audience at a deeper level eventually. So all I mean by that is if you're a personal trainer, you probably shouldn't start a podcast about engineering.
You should probably start a podcast about fitness, weight loss, physique, whatever it is. That's state step one. I've noticed a lot of people are really good at one thing and they have an opportunity to monetize that one thing, but they go in a completely different different direction and it becomes a kink in the hose for lack of better phrasing. So my ultimate thought with monetization is most people are told to do ads to do sponsorships to do affiliates.
As of today, I think we have 1,040,000 listens, something like that. If we were to do ads and sponsorship, let's just say ads and the average, the average company is paying 25 to 50 dollars per thousand listens. Yeah. We would have made 50,000 dollars over the last seven years. Even if we may let's just say it was 100,000, we would have gone out of business. Because $7,000 a year for seven years, 49,000 for two people in a team, there's no way.
There's no way we could possibly be where we are today. So I realized pretty early that that's not the way that most independent podcasters are going to win. Right. Where we kind of lose sight of the fact that the 1% of the podcasts, the 1% that are the super successful podcasts are also the 1% most listened to podcasts. And then we think, well, we'll just do what they did to get to where they are. We have to be more creative because we don't have millions of dollars backing us.
And we don't have the advertisement channels and the platforms that they do. So the ultimate thought is, whatever you talk about on your podcast, your ultimate bottom of the business thing should be solving your listeners problems in this bucket to a deeper, more valuable extent. I'm not saying you don't give away your best stuff. Every single episode of podcast growth, you is exactly what I'm learning and I try to give away the best stuff I have.
I don't want to, well, if you want to hear the rest of the episode, you got to do a coaching call. That's not how I want to do it. And then ultimately when people self identify, you add more value and add more value and add more value. And eventually maybe somebody wants to hop on the phone with you for free and you add more value. And then you become the person in their brain that can help them solve the problem that your podcast is about.
And then sometimes it takes a year or two years before they reach out to you. If you want to make money right now and you're a coach, I would say find five people who have self identified. Start coaching them completely for free. Do two months or a month and then at the end say, I really hope you enjoyed this. I would love to keep working with you, but now that I, whatever the truth is, I don't have as much time as I did before. What do you think of 50 dollars per call?
That's how I did in the beginning and I ended up getting all five people I was working with. And that became kind of the monetization strategy. Not saying you can't do ads, I'm not saying you can't do sponsorships. It just won't necessarily lead to the full time podcasting, life altering amount of money that you might need. That's going to come from creativity and really understanding business. So if you're spending time reading podcasts, books, love it. Speaking books, love it.
Throw business books in there too because that's something super valuable to know as a podcaster. Run your podcast like a business. It's important. Right, because then you're going to take it seriously. You'll invest in it. You'll make everything attempt to make it better. Right. So that's good. And I love the fact that Kevin, when you talk success leaves clues and you uncover those clues and then you share them with us. You're not hiding these behind some paywall here. Like here it is.
This is what I'm trying. I'll let you know if it works or not. You did it right here. You're talking to us right now. Right. You know, so you're willing to share these ideas in real time so that we can learn together. And I love that about what you do. Can you give us some vision into what's happening next on your podcast? Tell the road. Have you? You're a planner. I know you plan. Not me. My business partner. You're okay. So yeah, you have a goal, though. You're heading towards something. Yeah.
Our ultimate. Yeah, the ultimate goal is it's a very large one. To have the most successful podcast in the self-improvement space. That is ultimately that's the reason we do everything. We do everything the way we do it. And then with podcast growth, you and the podcast company, I want to be the podcast guy. I want to have a very, very large podcast production company that really puts the listener and the host first really is focused on how do we help these people grow?
How do we produce the best possible content for them? Those are really the two, the two big pillars that lead us to do everything that we want to do. When I don't want to do an episode, it doesn't matter. I mean, if you really want the goal, if you really want that, you got to do this episode. I have two episodes I'm doing tonight. It's going to be a late night, but that's what I signed up for. So yeah, it's really to impact as many people as possible.
I don't want to have the most successful podcast so I can say I have it. I just want to help the most people I can because again, at the end of the day, this at one point was a dream for me. I love it. Okay. So let's wrap up with this. Take us to your website. I have it up over chatting here. Take us to your website and then I would love for you to do your hopes for us as podcasters. You end your show like this and I've heard all of them.
So I'd love for you to you to wrap up the show in True Kevin style. That would be an honor for me as a listener of your podcast to do that for us today. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. The website is nextleveluniverse.com and as everything you need to know, links to the shows, all that happy jazz. If you want a free call, I will have, I'll ask Dave if he'll put the link in here. Anybody, I don't care if 2000 people book, please do the more the merrier.
What do I hope for you if you're watching or listening, whether you're watching or listening? I hope that if you've been on the fence about doing something new with your podcast, you do it. I hope that the people in your life are actually supporting you and not making you feel less than because you're trying something that nobody else really understands. I hope you are feeling more comfortable in front of the mic. I always hope that because I know how challenging that can be.
I hope that you're getting more clarity. That's what I hope most for. I hope that you're getting more clarity and things that you had no idea about are starting to make more sense because that's invisible progress that is often hard to recognize. And most of all, most of all, most of all, most of all, I hope you're fulfilled and you're enjoying what you're doing because I think it's really hard to beat someone who is
fulfilled and really, really enjoys what they're doing. That's gasoline in the tank for life. And I hope all your jazz is happy. Always. Kevin, thank you so much for being a part of the podcast. Again, I'm eagerly awaiting the next episode. I will be ready to listen. I'll be ready to listen. Okay. It's so great to meet somebody that's poured out so much great information and content and support of the podcast community.
Please keep going. Please keep continuing. I know it's you, but I just want you to know that I'm a big fan up here in Canada, listening and loving everything that you do. And I'm so pleased that you made time and your calendar for us here on the out of podcast series. Thank you so much for being so willing to do this. My pleasure, Dave. Hey, thanks for being here at the end of the podcast. This is just for you because you're still here.
Thank you for your support for the podcast. Thank you for listening to the show, sharing it with other podcasters. Maybe somebody you know is thinking what's starting a show. I would love for you to say, hey, wait, wait. You should go check out the out of podcast series. It's got everything you need. And Dave as well is included. You get one free Dave with a out of podcast series. I'm included with it. So kind of a bundle thing you get to that point mentioning it in the podcast.
Definitely want to remind you here at the end. There's a link in the show notes. Starting at this summer, I'm working through this. It's a way for us. You and I to have a conversation around podcasting. I want to help you. And I've been doing this for people who listen to the show now for almost three years. And I just haven't been promoting it as a thing. So I'm now promoting it as a thing. I want to spend time with you. I kind of would love to hear your voice.
We're going to jump on Zoom together. We're going to talk with your podcast. You get time one on one with me 30 minutes in my calendar, and believe me for no strings attached. You don't have to buy a blender or a vacuum or none of that stuff. No, no, no. Just us. I just like to help you. And whether you're thinking about starting a show or you have a show, you want to grow your show, whatever it is, I'd love to meet you. Talk about your struggles, your questions work together.
And I am eventually developing this into more of a coaching program for podcasters. But I'm starting with my best friends first for free. So if you're interested, you listen to the show and I appreciate you. Link in the show notes. Let's get together and talk podcasting. Okay. You and me. Let's talk. Let's talk soon. See you. Thanks.