Welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. My name is Drew Horning. And on this podcast, we catch up with graduates for conversations around how their internal work in the process is informing their life outside the process, how their spirit and how their love is living in the world around them, their everyday radius. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Hoffman podcast. My name is Drew Horning, and it's great to have you.
John Hurry is with us today. Welcome, John. Thank you. Great to have you. So John is the current VP of strategic partnership, with Linear Labs. He's also the founder of Propitious Technologies and CTO, chief technology officer there. He's the founder of BizBoxes and the CTO there as well. John has 4 kids, 30, 25, 10, and 8, and he has been with Elspeth, his partner, of 15 years. And he did the process 3 years ago and then the couple's retreat, a couple months after that.
Do I have that right, John? You do have that correct. Welcome to the show. Well, thank you for inviting me. How did you hear about the Hoffman process? So I heard about the Hoffman process. I have some friends, primarily in the Dallas Fort Worth area. They had all done it, and, their spouses had done it. And and they, they talked very praisingly about it. And, we'll talk about it a little bit later. I had recently been out of rehab, and they thought it was something that would
facilitate my growth. So or we could go there now, rehab. What what what happened that led you to have to go into rehab or choose to go into rehab? So I I guess I gotta give a little background. So, I was born in Flint, Michigan, and, we'll talk about things. I want people to to think it's you know, normal is what you what you think normal is, and I don't want any pity from any of this, but I I was pretty poor.
I had a mother and a father and a older brother and sister, 10 years and 8 years older. My dad left when I was 4, and, we were downright poor. My mom, did the best she could. I say that now after the Hoffman process. She did the best she could to, to provide for us. But, it was it was really my brother and my sister that were, became my rock of my the glue that bonded us as a family because my mom worked multiple jobs, wasn't home, and there was a lot of other stuff going on there.
In the midst of all of that, one day I woke up and my mother went on a long weekend, came home and she was married. And I had never met the individual. I love the hell out of him today, my stepfather. But, we packed up 3 days later and, moved to Northern Ireland. How old were you then, John? I was 10. And, for most of you I I don't know. Most of you know Flint's Flint's a rough
spot. I'd been mugged several times, and I could tell hours of stories about, you know, I think I got my first bike when I was 9. It was stolen. Then I got beat up, and it was stolen the next day. I mean and I don't recall having a bad childhood. I I think everybody should know that. I mean, it's just it was what it was. You know what I mean? I mean, I got a free breakfast and a free lunch every day, so I looked forward to school, from the state paying for that.
But, yeah, it was just seemed like everybody around me had the same life. So I I would call it normal, right, versus, my wife's upbringing where, they were fairly well off and lived in Ann Arbor and had everything they wanted. It's just a different normal. Sure. So so off you go at 10 to Ireland. Yeah. I go off to Ireland, and my older brother, Brady, went with us. And and he's really the, you know, the thing that glued our family together, at least for
me. I I should mention the reason he was so strong for me is although my dad never lived more than 20 miles from me, I never basically saw him again after the divorce. So at 4 years old, I mean, I have almost no memories of him. I would see him at Christmas sometimes. I'd see him at family funerals sometimes, but he was just a a non existent entity for me. He would call me sometimes and say he was gonna come over and do things with me, and then he'd never show up. So,
a true deadbeat. So my brother was really the one that was always there for me. So it was good when my brother went with me. It was sad that my sister my sister was 18 at the time, and and, she's decided to get married and stay in Michigan. So we went off to Ireland. I went to, public school in Ireland, and they thought I was severely challenged. And they actually tested me because I was so bad in English and math, had no foreign languages, which is kind of a requirement where I was at school.
And, they realized that I was actually, very bright and just had a terrible education. So, I got moved to a private school by the name of Rockport, which is over near Belfast and, thrived. I mean, we went to school went to school 7 AM to 7 PM, and, the later half of the day was chess club and all kinds of stuff. But, I mean, I accelerated. It was a program that you didn't necessarily have to be grouped with your age group. You could move in and out of other classes.
And at first, it was embarrassing because I was with younger kids. But, before I left Ireland, you know, I was doing calculus and college physics and chemistry, and I was in with the kids that were much older than me. And, I really loved Ireland. We were there till I was, 13. I should mention my stepdad opened a plant for General Motors there. You know, he was one of these, which I say this with a sigh because I'm one of them now too.
He was one of these guys that went to work and worked 12, 16 hour days. He didn't see much of him. Super nice guy, but he didn't see much of him. So, moved back to the states. I was 13. I finished half of 8th grade in, Oakland County, Milford, Michigan, and, started high school the following year. It was, it's going well. I mean, I basically tested out of high school for most for most cases. I mean, there were things like government and gym that were requirement.
But I I started off in in, the workload was very easy, and it was I basically had to do nothing. And I do have a bit of a lazy streak, so I did as little as possible, never turned any homework, and got b's and c's. But, where things really took a twist for me is my brother died in a car accident July 22nd to that following year. And, he was he was everything. So he was my brother. He was my best friend, you know, and he was my dad. I mean, he he was everything in my life.
John, how old are you when he dies? 14. And what was that like to lose him at 14? I mean, it was it was tragic. I you wouldn't guess it, but I'm crying now. I I cry every time I think about it. It's, it was tragic. It it was it was everything. When the police I had been out with my, cousin Billy and and Brady, and we'd gone to a water park and and, gone to the beach, had a few beers, smoked a little pot. Life was all
good. And and I went we went home, and my brother decided he was gonna go see his girlfriend, and and he got in a car accident and died. And it was hard to even imagine, but what what's worse is when the police came to the door, I heard him say that he was in a car accident at Bogey Lake and Duck Lake Road. And and I ran down there and, it's less than a half a mile from my house, and I watched him, drag my dead brother from the car. Something that would just, I mean, would affect
me immensely for a lot of years. The sounds, the smells, it's way more than just what you see. You know, the the taste, the air tasted salty. I mean, just you just stuff you don't ever shed. It was it was very destructive, and it and it led me on a very destructive path, which was amplified by the fact my mom became an a Valium addict and slept for the next 4 or 5 years. I don't, I didn't spend much time at home, or the time I spent at home was alone. I didn't make real strong friends in school.
I didn't want to attach to anybody. I didn't wanna date women. I didn't wanna get real tight with people. I I think it was a fear of losing people. Right? So it was, it was a real interesting time.
So, John, let me just just take a breath with you because, you know, your your parents got divorced, you move to Ireland, you come back again, you get tested because they're wondering about your academic skills and none of that is as impactful as that moment, Those smells, the sounds, the sights of them pulling your brother from the car wreck. Yeah. I mean, he wasn't just my brother. He was my
best friend and my dad. I mean, he was the one thing that that I always had and that was always there for me. And post that, you sense that things aren't the same. Like, I'm gonna avoid attachment and avoid connection. How long did that go on, that part of the chapter? Oh, God. I don't think I actually trusted that anybody actually loved me until about 5, 6 years ago.
And then if you'll recall, it was my one thing I wanted to accomplish at Hoffman the first day we're there, as I said, I I want to believe in my wife's unconditional love. You know, when you feel like you're broken, and and I'll stay in my own circle instead of present projecting it. I felt like I was broken and unlovable. And, I did a lot of things from 14 onwards, putting myself in risk of dying because I didn't care, but yet I had a strong Catholic belief that, if I killed
myself, I wouldn't go to heaven. So it wasn't an option. But I was very reckless, and it's probably a miracle I'm here. So What's it like to remember those times now? You know, I I try to remember the good times. You know, I've got a a poster. I've got a frame set of all the, bar coasters that my brother and I collected from all the bars in Ireland and Scotland
that I've put up on the wall. I've got, all of his old concert tickets and stuff he kept, and I've got a little, I don't know if you remember the old little black fold out travel clocks that you could wind up. Yes. We used to, take turns giving each other massages, and we'd time it so no one would cheat each other. They're all things I travel with that clock. It doesn't work, but I travel with it. It's all things I try to remember. I've got a goofy watch I bought that was, an excessive purchase.
I don't know why I spent so much money on it, but it's set on the 22nd at 1:1:23 AM, and it it's never been wound. It's just a reminder to me of when I lost my brother. What was his name? Brady. Brady. All of my kids have his name. My, oldest is Christopher Brady. My middle one, my 10 year old is, Basufakat Brady. And a tribute to my brother, there must be 20 20, 30 kids in our family that have his name either as a first neighbor
or a middle name. And so, John, how do you move forward where I want this story to get better, but I'm imagining it doesn't? I'm imagining you're not there just yet. Oh, I think you've got a I mean, I went off to college, and by the time I got to college, I I had alcohol and drugs mastered. It was something that was that was easy for me to master. I don't know if that's my Scotch Irish blood or what, but, college presented all kinds of opportunities and all kinds of difficulties.
One of the interesting things that happened was one of the women that I was dating got pregnant, and in tribute to my father who was a total deadbeat. I didn't want this child to be raised that way. I got married at 20 years old, 19 years old. My daughter was born when I was 20. That actually probably saved my life. It changed the direction of of where I was going, the some of the stuff I was doing, and I and I started to focus on trying to be the best father I could.
You know, I end up spending 10 years getting my first college degree, but, you know, I was a a plant manager, a very large facility, and very successful, you know, way before I even graduated from college. But, you know, the drugs and the alcohol continued. And, I also got involved in some criminal activities to help pay for everything along the ways that, would cause me issues later on down the road. All kinds of issues later on down the
road. So you have 2 children and then let's fast forward a little bit to the process. And, as many people know, the process is like peeling away the onion, that metaphor of understanding external patterns on the way towards the deeper part of the onion, the authentic self. And so you had dealt with the addiction by the time you had enrolled
in the process. Right? Yeah. I think I think it's important for everybody to know that the addiction I had spent, an extended period of time in rehab, and, the best thing about rehab was EMDR, and I don't know if everybody's familiar with that, but it's, Eye movement desensitization reprocessing. Yeah. It it it was able to remove, from my frontal cortex 90% of what we talked about with my brother's death. I mean, I used to taste it still and smell it and see it in my dreams nightly.
And and after many episodes of EMDR, which twice I went into AFib by the way, was hospitalized because it was so traumatic for me. It was very easy for me to kick my drug addiction. And I've I've been drug free, for for a substantial amount of time, couple of years, at least when I went to, to Hoffman. Wait. So let me just understand that. So you went into AFib when you were in the traumatic memory of your brother? Oh, yeah. Nosebleeds. I had blood coming out of my eyes.
I had all kinds of stuff. Okay. So the EMDR helped take away the trauma. And then as a result of that, you were able to deal with the substance abuse and use. Yeah. And, and, I know you have a lot of people that come to Hoffman. You you probably won't remember this. My biggest fear at Hoffman is I I had developed some rituals for meditation, using crystals and different stones that helped me with anxiety because I used to get panic
attacks. And, my biggest concern, and I voiced it 2 or 3 times on phone calls before I showed up to Hoffman, was that I wasn't gonna get enough time to meditate. That shows you how much I knew about Hoffman before I showed up. I'm just curious about your crystal practice prior to the process. You know, I I have a whole pile of different crystals. Some of them my youngest child has a knack of picking out stones she thinks I need for that day. And I used to hold a couple of them
in my hands. I I typically picked them by feel, not looking at them, how they felt in my hand, if they felt correct. And and I would hold them in my hands and move them around, and it helped me get to a meditative state or or more relaxed state. I also use I don't know if you're familiar with this, HeartMath? Yes. Yeah. To describe a little bit about what that is for you. So HeartMath is a, software package that comes with a little medical unit you attach to your earlobe and it monitors
your heart rate. It's basically like a pulse ox heart rate monitor. And it and it, has an app on your phone, and it's got a flower. When the flower expands, you're supposed to be breathing in. And when it contracts, you're supposed to breathe out. And the app slows down a little bit, and it'll slow the pace of your heart and make you more harmonic.
It was the only way I ever learned to meditate, and there's some theories behind it because it stimulates both sides of your brain that it it helps with people who are high functioning or overthinkers. I've got one of those minds you can't stop. So it was, really, really beneficial to me, and and, I used it religiously for 3 or 4 years. I've now got to the point where I don't need it to meditate. John, take us to a moment in time in your process that that stood out for you.
In the early part of the process, there was, there's some ex there's some expressive work. And and, I think it's really the fundamental of the process of opening up or breaking you down. I I don't know what you would call it. And it brought back some memories of, of my past that was really hard to deal with. But eventually, once I grasped it grasped it and and let it let it go with me, it allowed me to get to a point where I could understand understand the emotion
better. Without getting into too much detail of the process, it really it really allowed me not necessarily to understand, you know, how my brother and father and mother and the interactions of all those people and my sister, what they did or how they affected me, but what the intended purpose of what they did and how it affected me or didn't affect me. Does that make any sense, Drew? So you were able to rewrite the story in a way of what it meant to you?
Yeah. I was able really to forgive a lot of things that I just hadn't perceived. You know, I struggle still with my mother. My father's easy. He's dead. But it it you know, my mother, I know she tried the best she could to provide for us, and she did. She provide for us as a single mother, but I remember, you know, some different men moving in and out of the house and just a whole the whole sense of not feeling, safe.
You know, and the safety came from my brother and sister, but shoot, they were teenagers when I was little. They weren't they weren't home at night, you know, as much. So it was interesting. And then my mom with the Valium addiction after my brother was lost. You know, I I totally understand that today. I'd I'd be devastated if I lost one of my children. But when you're 14, I didn't have the tools to process it. I didn't have the maturity.
You know, the Hoffman process really allowed me to revisit that, have a better understanding of that, and try to compartmentalize it a little bit, if that makes any sense. It does. Yeah. So take us. Is there another moment that continued to help develop that going back in time and re understanding what happened from a new perspective? I am a ultra type a personality. I I always tell my wife I'd love to be in the woods somewhere by myself, and she just laughs.
I mean, I I talk to everybody. I can strike up a 3 hour conversation with a random person in a grocery store, And it's it's my personality. I love to talk and learn about people. Being forced to be quiet and reflect on myself was pretty impactful because I didn't want to be quiet. So the silence was was challenging to say the least? Oh, very challenging. What are you left with when you have silence? You're left with
yourself. And if you're not really happy with yourself, you're left with an unhappy self, I guess. It gave me plenty of time to think about all this stuff with my brother, my my parents, and and everything that had gone on in my life. Being left with yourself, if you're not comfortable with yourself, is not a good place to be left. So, but I imagine the process held you in that silence and helped you do what? You know what? It really helped me process the good in my life,
the good things I'd done. You know, you might get the sense from this talk that I'm I'm just kind of a goofed up wanderer, but I'm the I'm the 1st person to give my last $10 to somebody that needs it, or God forbid I ever live up in the north again. You know, I'd go shovel my neighbor's driveways in a heartbeat or some of the older people in in the neighborhood. It's just who I was. I've always been.
I'm I'm the guy that pulls over on the side of the car road and tries to fix your car or changes your tires. I don't know what made me that way, but I didn't quite realize I realize it. You know what's sad is, my wife, Elspeth, it's I think one of the things she liked the most about me was how kind I was to everybody and how I treated everybody. And I just didn't see it myself. Didn't see it till after Hoffman, till Hoffman.
Your goal, John, was to to see and receive the love, her love for you to trust it. How did you get there? Well, I think a big part of that is loving yourself. You know, if you if you don't love yourself, how can you imagine somebody else can love you? You know, we skipped over my first marriage. I I won't even go into that. She's, I'm good friends with my ex wife, and we were just kids when we
got married. But, you know, you all the things that take place in a life are, you know, you're the sum of all your experiences really. And I didn't love myself. And, I think once I I started to realize that I was lovable, I started to trust that my wife loved me. I've I've got one talent that makes it tough, and and I have an exceptional ability to be able to read and understand people.
It it's great in a business life, but, you know, when you look at your significant other and you already know what she's thinking, you don't need to hear it. You you really never know what's going on. You're saying that your your ability to read people in a way backfired in your marriage because you were reading her so much that you never really figured out what was going on for her or heard her share? No. So the reality is I wasn't that good at it. Ah, I see.
I I was good at it on a business scope or on a technical side, and it would made me very successful on a business side, but it's very immature on the relationship side. And and I always assumed some kind of, oh, condescending viewpoint she had of me because of where I came from and where she came from or You know, I mean, she did, you know, the went to college, did phenomenal, got all these awards, got her masters, took a great job, you know, took a
expat job in Hong Kong. I mean, she's got a phenomenal career story. And, you know, part of my story was scraping to survive and do the best I could for my family. It it wasn't really, my view of where she was wasn't wasn't accurate. Okay. I see that. And you're it it become your version rather than her voice with her version.
Because we're we're here, I wanna ask how did the couple's weekend and, having both done the process and in particular, the couple's weekend, how did that, does that support your marriage? So the couple's weekend was stellar. We had you were our primary counselor there. And, you knew you knew me well enough to hold me accountable for my for my bullshit. That's a technical engineering term.
Nobody's aware of it. And, we had both enjoyed Hoffman, and we both just went at it to to better understand our communications and and the way we talked and and the way we addressed each other. You know understanding that she can't fix me, I can't fix her, that we've got to fix ourselves, and then communication tools. Instead of saying, you know communicate you make me feel like this when you do that.
Before that, it was always a more aggressive stance of, you know, you're an evil person because you don't understand me, instead of communicating what I thought was evil about what was said. Right? Which which takes away all the misunderstanding. And and you can imagine if you got someone that thinks they already know what you're thinking. Speak for yourself so I can get the characters here. Yeah. So, you know, if I always know what what she's thinking, I've already consumed that she thinks,
something bad about me. And when I go into a conversation, you know, I'm already putting a negative twist on something that I don't really know what her answer or her feelings about it are. The couple's weekend was stellar. The other interesting thing was you sit there with a very diverse group of people at all different stages of relationships, and and you get to hear the way everybody else processes stuff. You can pick up some other things and people that you see in yourself
that you never knew were there. Not necessarily bringing them up at the time, but, you know, you realize like, oh, god. That guy sounds jealous. I'm like, oh, my God, I do that. I'd be the first one to to tell you that, I used to do this. I don't do it anymore. Anytime I used to get anxious or I felt like there was something wrong with our marriage, I'd be like, wow, I bet she she didn't do that with her last boyfriend.
You know, there's this great Anais Nin quote, which is we see the world not as it is, but as we are. So it sounds like as you changed your internal landscape, your relational landscape changed as well. Yeah. I think it changed dramatically. And sometimes I wonder how my wife tolerated me prior to it changing, but but she saw the good in me. I guess that's part of what what love is, is to see more than just what's presenting.
So what's that like, John, to be on the other side of so much struggle and trauma and pain. It's good. You know, I mean, it's hard to summarize it. You always for me, I always wish I would have seen it sooner. And I know I tell my wife I love her all the time and I appreciate her. I I just don't know if she really realizes how much I appreciate her because she was at the core of of everything I did.
You know, one of the reasons I went to rehab, I was in Chicago partying and got stabbed, and, it would have been hard for me to do my job with 64 stitches in my head and and 4 or 5 baseball bat wounds on my body. And I didn't wanna I didn't wanna I realized I didn't wanna lose my wife. And I realized at that point, it was time to clean up and get my life in order. And she was so supportive. She never told me I needed to go to rehab. She never told me I needed to quit doing things.
She was just very supportive. And when I decided it was time, she helped me find a place to go to rehab, and and she was kind enough to come with the kids and visit me on the weekends. She's really a saint. I mean, it's hard to imagine some some of the phone calls I've given her from the hospital. You know, I got mugged. Her question was, why do you have a cell phone? I'm like, I'll call you back in a minute.
You know, the stories did never add up on some of those some of those events in my life. It's a relief to wake up every morning and know that you're you're with somebody that loves you and a family that loves you and that you're in a content place. And Hoffman really helped me with that. John, have you been able to let that love in and then in turn love your kids and love your wife more? Has has it impacted your capacity to, to give love away?
Yeah. I was always a stellar parent for all of my kids. I there was something I would never sacrifice. Even when I was, single before I met Elizabeth, my first two kids, I had so many women that got sick of me canceling dates because I would my my son or my daughter would say, hey, do you wanna do this? I'm like, yeah. Because, you know, the the dating a woman or going out didn't matter to me as much as my kids. And I've always tried to be and I and I believe my
kids would say this. They they just a world class father. I've tried to do everything I could with them. It's important to me because I, you know, I don't want him to feel like I felt when I was a kid where, you know, I I just had this deadbeat father that Bush is never there. Always in a periphery. Sometimes I'd pass him on the road, but me and I just never saw them. When it comes to opening up to my wife, I do believe so. I mean, I'm so much, I'm so much more in tuned to it.
You know, in the Hoffman process, there's a section in there and I won't go into detail, Drew, where you have an interaction with another student. And the particular segment has touched me so much that, I mean, I have a deep love, not a sexual love for one of the women from the Hoffman process that I talk to all the time because it was so devastating to me, the interaction we had, and how much it reminded me of my childhood. The process is good.
It's not random. Someone has really thought out that process and there's pieces that touch you more, pieces that touch you less. But all in all, I think it's been well thought out, so it reaches everybody in wherever their weak points are that they wanna ground.
So, John, as you look at your life today and as you go through it currently with leading a couple companies and 2 older kids and 2 younger kids and the challenges of a marriage and COVID, how do you navigate urges to use or falling back into patterns? What helps you stay present to your right road, spirit led path? The the drug abuse, you know, I've had 2 or 3 surgeries since I've had drugs and, you know that I had total ankle replacement surgery. They gave me 3 months of pain pills. I took
them for 17 days. I'm very careful with it every time I get a prescription. I I have the doctor give it to my wife, so she hands them out like I'm a 5 year old child. And once I don't need them, I have her throw them away. When you talk left road, right road, I know how bad that left road was. And, you know, I had the ability because of my success in my career that never affected my career. I attribute some of this to my years at Tesla.
I would have a tendency when I needed to shut down just to travel somewhere and, abuse a hell out of substances. You know, because you could work 12 hours, go back to the hotel, and do drugs, and drink, and be comatose to the next morning. You know, that that left road was was very unhealthy and probably took years off my life, and it's something I would I will never go back to.
And when we say when we say left road, we're referencing a patterned living on autopilot, and the right road is a metaphor, a symbol for living from a more authentic, embodied, spirit led place. Yeah. For sure. The left road, for me is a is a bad place when it when it comes to that. And I'm just not myself. I'm a emotionless, non participating, pathetic human being. So the right road,
is critical for me. And when you look at how I adjust and and I won't talk about practice, I mean, meditation is is always been for the last 7 or 8 years a big part of my practice. But, you know, I have this beautiful Buddha head I put in my backyard with a fountain and a waterfall and a koi pond. And centering myself daily and taking the time to center myself is is very important. When I don't do that, I suffer from it. I think it's an important practice for me. I think everybody else has
their own. I think my wife spends a lot of time with Deepak, Shakur, or whoever that is every morning doing her meditations, but I think it's it's healthy for the soul, at least for my soul. John, I've so appreciated your vulnerability and your willingness to go back in time and retell parts of your childhood and your life that that are are imagined quite painful. And so I'm just grateful for your courage,
and I'm curious. What's it like for you to to bring Hoffman in and understand your life and speak about it from this Hoffman context? You know, honestly, I I don't think I fully understood my life. You know, it's it's, it it's tough to say, but I really had no desire to live until, sometime midpoint in rehab about 8 years ago. You know, and then Hoffman's really was the jewel on top of that. It it showed me how to appreciate what I have, where I'm going, and and
what I've done. And my life hasn't all been bad. I've had a great life. I mean, stellar kids. I've raised some wonderful kids, and I'm raising a couple more that are gonna be just as wonderful, I'm sure. I've got a wonderful wife, got great friends. I I think Hoffman was just key to really seeing what I had. I tended to have a little bit of a pity party all the time. And Hoffman made me realize there's there's no reason for pity because I've really had a great life. It's been tough.
I I don't think life is is easy, but once you get through the tough times, you know, I think someone if you always know the quotes, you can quote them. I don't know who said this, but, you know, if you're going through, hell, don't stop. I think that was my driving force at Tesla because Tesla was very stressful. But, you know, I think Hoffman really taught me that I can be everything I wanna be. I can be a great father, a great husband.
I can be very productive on the, technical side of it in industry, whatever I'm doing. I mean, my companies are so varied. One of them is a power generating suspension company, the other one's an electric motor company, and the other one is, controlled substance vending machines. I mean, I I operate in so many different areas and write patents in different areas. I've I've got a couple in thermodynamics. It's all stuff that I I never would have done if I would have stayed with that substance
abuse track. Right? And it's all stuff I think a lot of it, to be honest with you, I've been so much more productive since Hoffman because it's just opened up my confidence levels. So your confidence, your creativity has expanded because you're more, free from the trauma, the pain of the past. Yeah. I I think that is 100% right. I don't dwell on being bitter about the things that have happened to me. Often, it's totally responsible for that.
You know, I used to dwell on some of that, and and this held me back, and this held me back. And, you know, nothing's held me back but myself. I've I've had control of all of these things. I think the Hoffman's helped me realize that. I'm very, very appreciative of it. I'd go every year if I could. I love your your understanding of of how the process helped to shape your understanding of the past and sort of reset your progress into the future.
I love that kind of past, present, future relationship. It's been stellar. It's probably been, you know, rehab was a necessity. EMDR was phenomenal. Hoffman's definitely the the cherry on top. It really built up my confidence and it allowed me to see the good that I've done and and the good things in my life, and really just to go from there. Well, John, here's to the cherry on top in your family, in your marriage, and I am so grateful for this conversation. So am I. I hope it helps somebody.
Thank you, John. Alright. Thank you, Drew. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and president of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Razi Ingrassi, Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love. In themselves, in each other, and in the world. To find out more, please go to hoffmaninstitudot org.