Is the Lab the Only Way to Be a Scientist?

i'm going to be guest hosting i'm Kenneth vote i'm the founder of the executive coaching company veritas, and the reason i'm hosting today is, we have a very special guest Dr Nick is well. Hello we're gonna be. we're gonna be interviewing Dr Nick as well on a very important topic, and this is a topic that that he has spoken about from university stages and is this is the lab, the only way to be a scientist now.

This is a important topic because there's a lot of ways to have a career in science, the lab is certainly one of them, but it's not the only one. So you might be wondering what are the other possibilities, where you're going to find out when we talk to Dr Nick as well, because not only does he know about the topic he's lived this topic.

He has been in the lab and he didn't leave the lab and he continues to be in science, so you might be asking yourself wow, how can I do, that I would love to have that possibility in my life so so that's what we're going to discuss today and will. will begin with us just a straightforward question Nick, why did you start out in science and did you have a clear idea of where you are going to go in your career when you started.

And then I wanted to be a rock Star and I was actually up until I started doing my PhD I was still convinced that that was the week ago, when I was about to go touring and my band at the time, and everything and then then life took over. But as far as science went then. I knew from quite early on in high school that I want to be a scientist was just something that.

interested me my at the time of me, being in high school my mom actually was my mom was studying to be a nurse so she did it from scratch so did science to the. You know, half a science degree in it and nurturing nurturing so that was around me in that kind of formative years, not just find it quite interesting and I thought it explained the world philly it was great. I thought I was definitely going to do that.

And it kind of that that so that see both each 1314 I was pretty effects that that's what I wanted to do and that then what lasted for about 15 years or something like that, so that I wanted to be a scientist and a lab.

structuring your career is so important to leave you room for other other areas of expression and other other ideas and another thing. Okay.

A time I wanted to be a rock star that's all I wanted to be, and then I decided to be a scientist That was all I wanted to be and then it's come full circle to actually. I wouldn't like to be a rock star, but there are some elements of that that I want to have in my life, there are certain elements of science, that weren't in my life, and there are other things that I can mix them up doesn't have to be one thing.

You would have made a choice from a childish viewpoint, at that moment, but it doesn't mean it was a bad choice, but then again your your rationale for what you chose me be completely different now so.

Look, for the options and keep moving in the direction that that excites you the most and right but put the work in, so in that regard, I think, with any starting point, you could get where you want it to go, I mean look at where Richard Branson started, for example. Nowhere and. So, although there and it's what my what boxes you in it is the mindset is not having.

For me, anyway, the idea is not kind of being conscious that you need to keep options in front of yourself and then blocking yourself off.

A job in as a technician I find that impossible with a PhD no one wanted to look at your so I spent six months, I decided not to tour with the band were probably wasn't good enough anyway, but maybe maybe that's an assertion room and. And I I tried I applied for every technician job that was available this is Scotland not you know the west coast of the US so there's less options, but still.

I couldn't get anything anyway, for whatever the reason was and I ended up working in a supermarket for six months. While i'd been doing that all through my undergrad anyway, and so I, and so I contacted the university that I did my degree in which was my hometown university, so we had any PhDs That said, we have one left and. So I took it.

that's not how to choose a PhD. So I went and it was certainly an education let's put it that way for good and bad reasons and I slogged my way through it, I didn't enjoy it. And, by the end of my PhD I made the decision that I didn't want to continue in academia anymore. And, but I still want to still work, I would say I was gonna say I still wanted to be a scientist, but i'm not sure whether that was that was just I couldn't really think of another option that excited me oh that's.

Right yeah I was applying for jobs as a forensic scientist as well, but I couldn't seem to make that break either, so I got a job in industry, I went into industry, I got I really landed a fantastic job and a company in Denmark. Who were making. we're making automated devices for drug discovery we're inviting them from scratch, which was really, really unusual an interesting job to do.

I sit there for a couple years we had to move back for family reasons I got a job again just default what what I do i'm a molecular biologist i'll apply for molecular biology jobs, I got a job in another great company here in Edinburgh. And I was in there for six or seven years, but all through that time and we're you know, an industry, I was kinda like this is an OK, for it but it's not a great fit for me I don't i'm not very green fingered always.

tended towards training people towards helping other people do well you know, to get the most out of themselves and that's what interested me. And so 2007 blogs became a thing and and I thought I saw other people making blogs about things that they knew about and making little businesses over them, and so I thought well let's give that a go so for three years, I worked in. still working in the lab on as a hobby.

While it was more than a hobby because I was getting up very early to write these things I would have two small kids at once market at the time. And so I would get up at like 5am right for two hours get everyone ready for in the morning and go to work, and it did it, thank goodness, at the time, I did it uh you know, for once, in my life I had some discipline, I did that.

yeah in bite size by groups on legs, so the decision to kind of you know that's one big junction point for me and if I look back at my career path is. That I just decided to follow, something that inspired me and because I was inspired I was able to do something stupid like get up at 5am every day for a year and write blogs and but I was really excited about us or give me the energy and. And then two tickets on path, but even if bite size by your. own.

So, in a way, happy, in a way, very tired, but yes still I was, I was glad to have the direction because before that I was stagnating in the lab and I was looking around I was applying for stuff I wasn't getting it and it was kind of a bit sad.

The illustration of what a PhD was like that and and because you get three quarters to the top you're committed, so you have to go and do that, however, but anyway and and I think, but I think that I know when I look back at my PhD at something that i'm really glad I did. But. I wouldn't want to have to go back and do it again, but I would, if I had to. see what I mean and it's exactly the same as the business has been like run in bite size by it was a business or developing it.

into something that is commercially viable has been exactly the same experience, where it was just at something that there's been a lot of enjoyment, a lot of difficulty, a lot of sweat involved. And I wouldn't do it differently, but I wouldn't like to have to do again.

You know comparatively little positions are built, especially senior positions So the first thing I would say, is to realize that, if you would have you know if you're at the early stage of a scientific career realize that. That path is an option but it's not like it used to be, I think that the mindset when, certainly when I was in undergraduate admittedly quite a while ago last century, as I like to see, and then.

It was it was kind of like Well, this is probably what will happen is a bit unusual to do something else. will have evolved from them, but I think that the prevailing mindset is still it still in the background that we still call them alternative careers in science and it's not actually just careers in science, or careers lot that you can launch into different science.

But I certainly have a scientific background so i'm in the industry, so I can understand have some understanding of what needs, and I can apply my skills to that to add value and that's what could you do this, how can you add value to whatever industry you're in.

The overdrive, if you like, that that the people that are that really excites can do so it's difficult to compete and when when I when I find the thing that really excited me then I was off, then I had the JET fuel and I could do I could do it myself. Right, but I think that, so I think that having that kind of you know you're you're 19 2021 whatever and you can see, this path and you think it's exciting I think that's that's perfectly fine.

And I think nowadays there's more awareness made of you here this might not be a career in the lab for you, I mean that was there. When I was doing it, but I thought that I would do it, I thought that I would I thought, of course, I thought that was going to cure cancer and stuff that was mine no That was the way that I went into it. But I think having an awareness that that what this is a boat isn't about isn't.

pathways as such it's a series of choices, and you can relax into that and just keep looking around I think what people. And I certainly was guilty of that a couple of points in my career as I didn't look around, I just took the next default step. And, for example, when I took a job as a molecular biologist when I was kind of sure that I didn't enjoy science very much I didn't enjoy bench work very much, but I needed a job.

When you're putting an extra what does it feel like a joy, or does it feel like a slog and if it feels like a slog then you're probably not putting your efforts in the direction of something that would inspiring so have a look around and it might take. Different you know might mean taking a step back and before you take a step forward, but most of all it's just you need to have. Something in front of you that's inspiring you so, whether at one point for me it was i'm going to cure cancer.

That was like great Okay, so I need to know all this stuff and that that drove me, you need that gives you the JET fuel and then that were off. And so right, I need something else I need another thing to aim for the old that'll help me propel and the direction and again that that helps you to manage up to what's exciting for you and what and what you enjoy and then. You know just keep.

Seeking skills that could help you, you know, keep adding skills don't stay in the same rock to keep trying stuff I mean when I was in. The band I would always try different ways to do things and different ways to you know, improve my systems and improve my protocols and I guess hopefully everybody does that but, and maybe that's you know.

Teaching granny to suck eggs or whatever that expression is a box it's all about don't just follow other people make a blaze a path for yourself and one other thing as well about you know that keeping things in front of you, you know about. You know, keeping staying inspired looking for opportunities as.

And I saw this at my kids school was a curious thing and I can't remember the exact Stat was, but it was something it was either three out of 10 or eight out of 10 but let's say it was three out of 10 three out of 10 jobs haven't even been invented yet. 10 jobs that could become available to you haven't even been invented yet and actually thinking back that's what happened with me blogging.

Then on it hadn't been invented when I was an undergrad well had been invented by hadn't developed into anything, when I was. When I was an undergrad and so, if you don't keep your eyes open, then you miss these opportunities as they come up I don't know whether that's too fluffy but that's that.

that's what I just keep saying to my kids it doesn't matter what you study I mean do you it doesn't matter what direction you say, is it yourself, and as long as you keep inspired and you just keep trying your hardest you keep putting your most Center.

running a loan sharking business or i'm not you know, a member of of a you know, whatever a criminal gang or something that i'm i'm doing something that we're I genuinely think is is my best contribution to this industry. And the best contribution that I can passionately make with my specific skill set and my specific. You know desire if i'm doing something that if i'm working in a job, where i'm not happy, I am not going to be able to give my most to that so that you know that that might be.

That you know walking away with something that you're not enjoying and kind of self flagellating to keep going on, even though you don't enjoy it that's not narcissism but it's kind of what is it it's kind of self it's martyrdom I suppose.

So if you're going to be a part of that you're going to have to you're going to have to soak up your own fire, so you have something to give.

But I was supporting the people at the bench in it, which is what I was bear better are on one of the things that kind of made me stay in a minute take a while for me to get out of that was that I what I did was I just thought inside the box, if you want these are really trite expression.

I just what I did was anytime I saw a publishing job come up I applied for it anytime I saw a job that was training I would apply for it, and maybe I will do some speculative applications and think I was doing really well. And those that's a fine thing to do. But I didn't start to get any results and still as until I started.

Thinking about more laterally and, as I alluded to earlier, even just writing bite sized bio you know I picked up the keyboard the pain started writing started getting a little bit of traction even if no one had read this thing. meant that, then I could go to a job interview and see. Well here's my blog, and this is what I want to do you know, this is what i'm interested in I can tear something that i've done this out of the ordinary and.

And so that's evidence that i'm you know you know, although I don't have experience in publishing I am self starter and i'm i'm motivated and all that stuff and that that was enough for me to get my first move out of the lab was as the got a job as a journal editor. And and literally The thing that sent me that got me that job was was bite sized bio and then I subsequently got a job for another publisher as a consultant they came to me.

which was quite astounding, and for me, anyway, at the time, and you know and offer me a consultancy consultancy job because of bite sized bio so again, however, that maps onto people's individual situations. will be different, but the thing, but one of the you know one piece of advice would be to just try and think as lateral as possible and don't be boxed in by.

Only the opportunities that other people are presenting you obviously take a look at those opportunities but see what you can meet for yourself, even if it's just small you can stop something. The famous quote I always say is that bite size bio started by a 500 word article and yeah and that's what got it moving and and it's still one of the biggest articles on the website for 14 years later, which is quite funny.

It could have stopped me at any point in the last 14 years is fear is fear of the fear of taking the next step into the unknown, you have to trust yourself, you have to just shoot and and try and keep keep shooting and if stuff doesn't work keep taking shots and. You know. that's that I think that that is probably the number one reason why people don't get where they want to go is because they settle for something less than what they want, they just stop because it's too scary or.

Sure, showing people what these options are you know the same traditionally, for you know when I was at university, it was. You know, you could do anything from you can move into market, and you can be an accountant, you can be a lawyer, you could you know specializing in science, all sorts of stuff. But it just grows every year there's more things every year, you can do and there's also probably more option to. To take risk and do something for yourself as well. As well right.

In some of them stick and you can't worry about the fact that not all of them stick sometimes you try something and and you know it, it runs its course and that's the end of that well that's fine move on to the next thing. Well then, I will ask you then knickers the final question is there anything you'd like to say to to wrap up this notion of how to have a career in science.

I think what i've morning most important skills i've developed is to try and be again i'm not putting myself as anything like the pair there's still plenty of flows they're not mean anything like that, but that. i'm quite able to kind of look at other people's point of view and see how it would work if I looked in that way, if you, if you like, and so that means that you can derive you can derive value from literally anyone's perspective on the world if you can get yourself to do that.

shortcut yep and what's one book. That I will you know that sticks out above the rest for me, that is an accessible way to break open how you look at your your career it's a bit cold. Okay, so again this isn't a perfect fit for science, but these things don't have to be you just have to be able to take lightly take on the perspective and see how that can inform.

What you do so or the way you approach things so this because called be as a catchy title, be a free range human escape escape the nine to five. create the LIFE you love and still pay the bills Okay, so this is about, you know running your own business, which might not be what people want to do, but actually that's just a marketing thing fundamentally it's about.

What is a career and what is a job, and how can you add value in a way that suits you and and still you know you know give you know, be a contribution to the world so as.

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