Stop Endlessly Chasing the "Next Big Thing"

get really, really loud. We start to hear all these outside cultural voices shouting at us about what we should be doing that number that we're really supposed to have on the scale, or the glossy gym we absolutely need to join, or the new productivity or dating app that all our friends are trying. These outside voices tell us there's one way to get fit, or quit biting our nails, or get that big promotion at work. It's a new year, they scream, and this is how things are going to

have to change. These new year voices are all very well intentioned, but they can sometimes get so loud that we can't even hear ourselves things. So, in this new Year's season of the Happiness Lab, I want us to try something different. Instead of listening to all these loud outside voices, We're going to do the harder work of

looking inward. Over the next few episodes, we'll try to pay attention to the wise voice inside us, our inner compass, if you will, that often gets drowned out by all the outside noise, and we'll see that carefully listening to the quiet voice of what our bodies and our minds truly need, maybe the real path to happiness in twenty twenty three. Our minds are constantly telling us what to do to be happy. But what if our minds are wrong? What if our minds are lying to us, leading us

away from what will really make us happy. The good news is the understanding the science of the mind can point us all back in the right direction. You're listening to the Happiness Lab with doctor Laurie Santos. In the coming episodes, we're going to take a closer look at the perennial urges we have in the new year. To work out more, to eat healthier, to throw ourselves into

our jobs, and to push ourselves to the limit. At first glance, all of these seem like reasonable personal goals, but we rarely take a moment to stop and think, could there be something else underlying all these desires? Why are we putting so much emphasis on how much we can bench press, how much protein we eat, or what our new job title is. And the place where I want to start this deeper exploration may seem slightly unorthodox.

I want to start with a children's book. Archibald's morning always started off the way it would end in an egg. My husband Mark and I have a ritual where he reads me bedtime stories at night. Sometimes we pick classic texts, but lots of nights these days we just go for a children's book. And that was how I stumbled upon the book that inspired this entire episode. It's called Archibald's Next Big Thing. Archibald up deeply frustrated that he hadn't

figured out his next big thing. The book tells the story of Archibald, a cartoon chicken who's desperately trying to find what he refers to as his next big thing. I've got to find my next big thing, often missing out on exciting moments that were right there. If he just took a moment to notice a dinosaur writing a roller coaster is pretty big, So what you're searching for must be huge, it is, said Archibald, I know it.

The book ends with Archibald realizing that big things are sometimes right in front of our noses or our beaks as it were. Of course, of course, Archibald clucked loudly, how could I have missed it? Archibald's Next Big Thing is a book for children, but many adults struggle with the same problem that this little chicken faced. Many of us spend a lot of energy looking forward to that next big thing when our new gym membership finally pays off, or how happy we'll be when we get that huge

rays or promotion. We hear all these outside voices telling us how great it'll all be in the future, which makes it kind of impossible to hear the soft intuition that maybe telling us that what we need to be happy is right here in the present. The author of Archibald's Next Big Thing knows this lesson all too well. He wrote the book for his daughter to help her learn what he'd gotten wrong so often before, that if you only concentrate on the next big thing, you'll miss

the chance to be happy right now. Hello, hey Tony, I'm just realizing now I think I took your course. Oh my gosh, it's a course right didn't have its called the Science of well Being on Coursera. Now this makes so much sense. Where I used talk so eloquently about happiness, That's what you taught me. That author whose voice you may recognize is Tony Hill, the star of Veep, the Mysterious Benedict Society, and the actor who played Buster

Bluth and Arrested Development. Like many of his characters, Tony admits to having been deeply affected by anxiety, and just like Archibald the Chicken, Tony spent many years searching for his next big thing, including the next big role he thought would bring him the happiness he craved. I mentioned the story a lot, and I really believe in it a lot. And I don't know, I'm a guy that needs a lot of reminders, so I don't mind talking

about it a lot. But when I was living in New York, I was an actor in New York for like seven years, and I was doing commercials, and I was actually doing pretty well in commercials. But there was something called pilot season where there was like a three month period during the year where they would audition for TV pilots, and if you missed that window, you probably weren't going to get on a show. And really all I wanted in life was to get on a sitcom.

That was kind of my goal, my end goal. Every year would go by and I would miss pilot season, I'd be like, what is happening? But I was always anytime I would go through something, I was like, you know what, that day's coming, that day's coming. I'm gonna get that sitcom. It's coming, It's coming. Finally I booked Arrest of Development, which was like the best cast, best scripts,

incredible show. And when I booked it, I found myself that I wasn't as satisfied as I thought I was going to be, and it really scared me because you can't get better at the rest of development. So I had no excuse and I was like, wait a second, this is what I'm about. And it didn't satisfy me. And when it was canceled in two thousand and six, so it's kind of a time during that season of

like what's going on? What's happening? So when it got canceled, my daughter was born, and one thing that you have to do with a child is you can't be distracted. You can't. Because my thing was when I realized through the suggressive development experens. I just wasn't present for most of my life. And it wasn't just in New York. It was like whenever something was going on in my life, I would just check out. I would just really just kind of disassociates a strong word, but I would just

check out. I was looking at the future, I would just think I would just kind of not be there. But my daughter was born, I realized, like, I can't check out. I've got to keep the child alive. So I've got to be present. And it really woke me up to just the many times of my life. For most of my life, I wasn't president, And so then began this journey of just waking myself up to where

I was in my career. There's a lot of highs, Like there's big highs, and I was kind of putting my satisfaction for most of my life in those big highs, and I wasn't giving a lot of power to the ordinary, a lot of power to the present, a lot of power to the every day, and just didn't know how

to find really joy and contentment in those moments. So I did something called CBT, which is cognitive behavioral therapy, and really just kind of allowed myself, like he would always say, hey, why don't you just activate the five senses where you're at? What are you hearing? Smelling, tasting, touching, and just like really grounding myself, like he would say, you have to wake yourself up one hundred times a

day to where you are. And that's where this children's book came out that I did, called Archibald's Next Big Thing, about this little chicken who gets his card in the mail that says your big thing is here, and he's like where, And he goes on all these adventures. But every time he's on an adventure, he's like, I gotta get to my next big thing. And this bee comes along. It's like, you gotta just be a man. You gotta just be And he realizes that the car is right,

that his big thing was right there. It wasn't somewhere else. And I had given that sitcome a lot of weight, and nothing can match the weight that I gave it. Now keep in mind I sound like I'm a professional with this. I'm not. This is something I struggle with. This is something it's very easy for me to check out. I think I talk about it a lot as a reminder, But it's just my default is to check out, and I have to daily find the power in the every day,

in the ordinary, which is a challenge for me. I mean, I think it's a challenge for everyone. I mean, I think you're in it an industry where like looking ahead is really you know, I'm sure every single interview you do, somebody's like, you know, what's the next big thing for Tony? Right, But it's also just a feature of human nature. I mean, you can talked about this idea of waiting for the next thing like this. This is a bias that psychologists

call the arrival fallacy. It's kind of like the happily ever after fallacy, like I'll get this next thing and I'll be good, but you're always looking to whatever the next thing is, like totally, and I never want to give the impression that dreaming is wrong, or I never want to give the impression that ambition is wrong, or like having those moments of a creative like, oh, where's this going to go? I think that's great? My thing is,

That's all I was doing. I always tell people that the value you have before success is the same value you're going to have after success, and I'm in a business that tells you your value will be with what you get. And I say that because it's okay to ambition. But am I changing my value with what I think I'm going to get? Or am I giving myself the same value that I have now? And that's the trick.

But the cool thing about the rest of development story is that you had the realization right You kind of did realize you were chasing and chasing and were in the present moment. So what caused you to have that realization? Was there a moment when you're like, wait, this is never going yeah? Was that? Like? Honestly, I think it was the gift of getting my dream. I got it. And I mean you've heard stories of people getting oscars and then the next day they go into a depression.

Mine was more and my anxiety has amped up because all these expectations were not matched and I just freaked out. Also another component of that is the guilt when people come out to me and say, oh my gosh, are you so excited? Are you so excited? And my insides did not match their expectation, and so then I walked away like what is wrong with me? What is it's wrong? With me, and that's when everything began to unfold and dissect and I was like, wait, I gotta go back.

And I got to realize I'm just being presidents of a big struggle for me. And the fact is all these are very buzzwords right now, being present, all that kind of stuff, But for me, that is, it is, it is the it's it's a huge component for me is that it's being present. Because I say that because there's a part of me that fight. It's like, Tony, you're sounding cliche, but it's true. I just was not very present for most of my life. And we need

to know what being present means. I think we think when we do the buzzwordy versions would just be present, but it's like, no, that means sitting with the awful voice that's screaming at you. That means noticing that your you know, your heart is freaking out and your chest wants to bust out, and you feel awful and you're saying really mean stuff to yourself. So it's one thing to just be present when it's unicorns and rainbows and ice cream codes, but it could be present feels awful.

Like I love that you said that, because I never thought about that way that being present, there's there's a compassion element to it of I want to check out of this space right now. Hey, why am I feeling this? I'm sad or I've had a tough day, or I'm pissed off at my daughter? Why am I wanting to check out? So let me just hey, I hear you.

And that's hard, you know. And that's something honestly when people have said I'm sure you've heard this before, but if my daughter comes up to me and says, Dad, I'm really sad, I'm having a hard time, I would be like, oh my gosh, honey, this is really hard, give yourself a break. We don't talk to ourselves that way. I don't talk to myself that way. So it's like beginning to talk to myself as I would my daughter.

And I think we, you know, one of our many misconceptions, as I think we have this like drill instructor theory about motivation where it's like if I just scream at myself and just like call myself really terrible names obviously that I'll stop making me feel sad or scared, just like yeah, myself. Yeah, Because let me tell you, right now, that shame closet is packed like it is full. There is no more room. The grace compassion has got a lot of space. Let's start filling that closet. But it's hard.

I mean, this is what you're articulate so nicely, right, it's like and it's hard in part because I think we want to push ourselves. Yeah right, I mean, especially in the industry you're in, there's this like push push, push, don't admit vulnerability. Yeah, And I mean you had to

fight against that kind of mantra a lot. Yeah, And I mean, and that's what's the gift of life of when I remember years ago, I did a Pepto Bismo commercial in New York where I was having diary on the train and I was this is my first national commercial and my tenure reunion was coming out from high school. And I remember thinking, I'm going to go back to that reunion and I'm gonna be like, guys, I'm just this feeling of like I'm on national television and a

diary or commercial. And I gave that so much power because I wanted to go back to these people that bullied me or I didn't feel a part of or I wanted to feel superior to or I just wanted just mainly just to feel like the popular kid. I remember leaving that reunion feeling worse than when I came at and it was like, God, I gave a lot of power to wanting to redo trauma or whatever with these quote accomplishments, you know, and it was a diarrhye

of commercial auditory. One of the first things you talked about when you're talking about arrested development and wanting to do more, just articulate that urge for more. You finally get a sitcom that's it's like one of the coolest characters and one of the most well regarded characters in like the last two decades of TV history. How did

that not feel like enough? That's the but that's I think the curse we can fall into is and I do sometimes I can get a little dark because bringing up the fact that it is never enough if you don't wake up to what you're around. The sad truth it is sugar. You have sugar, and you're gonna want more sugar, and it's never going to satisfy. And then you're going to get to when you're in your eighties and you're going to still be going, I want more,

what's next? This isn't enough, thinking the whole time the next thing is going to be what's enough? Isn't that amazing? The very simple truth that I would think I would get. But it takes that reminder of like I have been doing this and I still believe the next thing can be enough. It's very easy to go to that place. Yeah,

And that's what And that's with career. I mean, you know, on the podcast day one of my favorite episodes of my own podcast was talking to this guy at clay Cockrell who's a wealth psychologist and so he works with the like you know, super infinitely wealthy, and they'll they'll say things to him like, you know, I thought it was the first billion, but it wasn't. It turns out it's the second billion. I need to be a multi billion. Yeah. And he's like watching this being like, how how can that?

You just had the data that that wasn't enough, but but we don't incode, like, oh the whole premise is wrong. Where you in code like I just didn't get there yet, you know I need Yeah, he hit sitcoms and that's when that happened. Yeah, and the truth is, I say it, but it's it's so easy to fall into that pattern. And also just all that and again not that money is bad or success is bad and all that kind

of stuff. But I remember, you know, honestly, I was watching an interview with Amy Schumer and it was a long time ago, and someone was asking about what advice would you get that's so exciting. You've got to be where I want to be. And I remember Amy saying something to this person's like, you have to understand I've gotten to the other side and I've seen behind the curtain. You're still thinking that thing is behind the curtain and it's not, or something to that effect that it was

so wise. Oh and this was my favorite Jim Carrey's speech. Do you know what I'm talking about? Jim Carrey at the Golden Globes and I have the chance to meet him recently, and I rushed him and I told him, I was like, I've told this story so many times and I so appreciate you doing this. But he was with the Golden Globes years ago and he said something to the effect of, as a joke, he said, I've got two Golden Globes but a third will be enough.

And it went to the audience and you can see half of them were laughing, and then you saw half of them like kind of like it will be like because we do tell ourselves that narrative. And he was making a joke, but what a profound statement, you know. I loved it. Yeah, this idea of never having enough

is really, I think, such a problem. I mean again, I was not consulted when he minds were built, but like, you know, three golden globes, like you should cross it off your list, go hang out on the couch, right exactly. And I think another trick is kind of navigating all the other psychological biases we bring to the people. And I know this is something you've talked about too, about kind of having had a history of anxiety and things

like that. You're known as an actor who plays anxious characters. In fact, one of one of my students once said, in the midst of midterms, she was like, I feel like I'm a Tony Hale character this week. Students to be saying that. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, so talk a little bit about like how this is played out even before being an actor in your early life. Yeah, I love that question. Hey, talking to you, which you're so intelligent and well read about psychology. I'm sure I'm sounding

like a complete simpleton. But when it comes to anxiety, I man, there's so many things to say, because when I was a kid, I the word anxiety was not as much of a buzzword as it is now, and I didn't know how to categorize myself. I had a lot of feelings. I was very sensitive, a lot of panic, a lot of a lot of fear, and I think I was kind of very extroverted and wanted attention. But there was a way just to kind of get those

feelings out, which is good. I'm glad I had those outlets, but just a lot of interferes And then I remember, I think it was my junior or senior year. I did a show a little Abner and I was at this character Mary and Sam and in the middle of the song, I had what I thought was an asthma attack, and it was a panic attack. I didn't know what it was then for the rest of my decades ahead, that became a marker of what I was terrified to

have again. And I did have it other times, but there was this fear of like, oh my gosh, that's going to happen again on stage, that's going to happen again in an interview, that's going to happen when I have to speak in front of somebody. And it was

just absolute terror. And then over time kind of getting back on stage and doing things I would I remember there's this famous preacher named Joyce Myers who would always say, many times, we feel like we have to be in this place of peace or strength in order to do stuff. And she's like, you know what, you just gotta do it afraid. You just got to keep walking and do

it afraid. And I found myself constantly having this mantra of like Tony, just do it afraid, And so I would just keep walking because I can honestly say that I felt like I was a victim to my thoughts, to my feelings. I was so drowning in my thoughts and my feelings. I'm never going to work again. There's that thought that I'm gonna have a panic attack. There's that thought that my daughter's gonna get kidnapped or anything.

There's just these thoughts and feelings that are going by like cars on a highway and when I became more of an observer of them, it took a seat and

didn't identify with them so much. Again, this is something I do with all the time, but it was an angle I never thought about, and I was just incredibly grateful to have that new and I'll never this other This therapist I worked with who was really just a godsend, and actually he just gave me tools that I so appreciated, one being I want you to close your eyes for ten minutes a day, and if a picture came in your mind, say image. And if you find yourself going

over a conversation, just say words. And the fact is we cannot control our thoughts and feelings, we cannot control what goes in our heads. But there's some about putting a name to these thoughts in these images that you're never going to be fully in the driver's seat, but it felt like I was a little more in the driver's seat. And just simple things like that. That was great. And to your question of kind of characters that I've played, I do. I do anxiety very well because I know

what it feels like. But I think it is so cool to be in a stage of my life where all the stuff that I've walked through, and you know, not nearly what other people have walked through, but what I personally walk through. I can bring them into comedy. I can show a more authentic version of anxiety. I can talk about it openly, like it's it is cool how something that was so broken in my life, how it can be used for restoration and others, And that's

a that's a cool equation that happens. I think Tony's portrayals of anxious characters have made a lot of us laugh, but they've also gotten a lot of us to think. When we get back from the break, we'll hear more about how Tony learn to listen to the anxious voice in his head. We'll see how really hearing that voice and show at some compassion allowed Tony to make peace with his thoughts and fears and feel a little happier.

The Happiness Lab will return in a moment. Many of us experience a little social anxiety now and then, but we don't usually have to perform in front of a theater full of paying customers, or to step out before a live TV audience of millions. After Tony Hall loved being a performer, but his mind was often filled with terror that he'd freeze or panic when the stakes got high, which, as you can imagine, is a scary and lonely place to be. So how did he overcome it? People who

have had panic attacks can understand this. It feels like you're never going to get out of it. It feels like the tsunami is coming towards you and it's just going to eat you alive, and nobody understands what you're going through. I'll never forget. I was about to do Conan O'Brien and when you're on a talk show, you're about to go on and they have a they opened the curtain, you walk out, and there was two guys about to open the curtain. I was going to walk out,

and I felt a panic attack coming on. There was this moment of I'm either going to run because what I wanted to do was just bolt, or what I did, by the grace of God, is I started asking these two guys questions that we're holding this curtain, and I said, so where are you guys from? Oh my gosh, how

long have you been doing? This? Wouldn't be crazy if there was like a documentary back here about people about like I just started to ask them questions to get my eyes off the anxiety, and then the curtain open and I went, but it's there's just this, there's this cross roads you hit where it's like it's coming and you so want to fight it. You so want to be like no, no, no no, no no, don't don't, don't it's overway. What you don't want to do is give

yourself over to it. But that's kind of what you have to do. Like there's something about surrendering to the feelings and be like, you know what there it is, this is what this feels like, I know this feeling, and I know this feeling is going to pass. I remember Bill Hayter was talking about his anxiety one he talked about just how he would have He would name it as like a funny little friend that would kind of crawl all over him. And I was doing a play two years ago in San Francisco and it was

practically a one man play. There was another character that came in towards the end, but most of it was just me talking for forty five minutes. And every night before going on, I would think tonight's tonight that I'm going to lose it on stage in front of a thousand people, and I would that little voice would come up and say, you know what, tonight's to night. And I've never had compassion to that voice. I've never looked to the voice and say, hey, I really appreciate you

being here. I know you're trying to protect me, and I can't tell you how much that means to me. I'm going to go out and do the show, but I'll be back. And there was something about having compassion

to that voice. It dissipates the power. Rather than fighting that voice, which I had done from most of my life, but really giving it the love and care that it needed because it is a part of me, and my anxiety is a part of me, and why not begin to embrace and have love towards it, because that's what's going to release the power of it. Yeah, I mean, I really love that suggestion for two reasons. Right. One

is we know psychologically this idea that what you resist persists. Yeah, right, if you try to like squish the beach ball under the water, it's gonna come flying back out at you. Right, So it just doesn't work, the resistance. But also recognizing that that voice is there, it's trying to tell you something, and listening to it. I think all too often we think of our emotions, whether it's anxiety or anger or whatever, as this annoying thing that's rumbling around in our brain

that we want to shut off. But it's really just like a signal. Like it's like an alarm bell that's telling us something. It's like when your microwave beeps, when the yea the pubcorn's done. It's like it's just telling you something. And if we listen to it, say, hey, you know, thanks for telling me this. I do have to go on stage right now, so I'm not going to listen to you right now, but thank you for trying to look out for me. It's just such a

different relationship with that voice. I love that because the fact is, if you really think about it, this voice has been trying to protect me since I was a kid. So the motivation of this voice is really begins. Is it from a loving place like wanting to help, and it has got distorted and it was crippling, But the motivation is they just want to protect me, and I

want to give it that love. I think also, especially you know, for you as a kid, you had this secondary thing that I think went along with the anxiety, which probably you know, the voice was really trying to protect you from. I know you've talked before about your history with asthma, and there's such a connection just physiologically between what happens and anxiety and with your breath and what happens in asthma. And so because if anything, I imagine the asthma made you a little bit vigilant in

a very anxious way. Ye child anyway, Yeah, because there's a I would also get really really nervous on elevators because I would think, if I have an asthma tack, I can't get out if there's a hospital nearby, And that just kind of triggered the anxiety, and many times it became a psycho where the anxiety then triggered the asthma. And a lot of people don't talk about they they talk about asthma, they don't they don't talk about the

anxiety associated with asthma. And our breath is our life for us, So it feels like you're breathing through a straw like it is a terrifying feeling, and the thought of that coming back and not knowing because anything could trigger it for me. It could be environmental, it could be anxiety, it could be anything, so you never when it's going to come, which is very similar to kind of panic stuff. So there's a real kind of similarity

between the two. I'm glad you're talking explicitly because I think people just think asthma, Yeah, just the big thing. But it's like, no, it comes with all the psychology,

but just really quick. Like something I've mentioned I don't give like details, but there's been addiction issues in my family growing up, and there's a hyper vigilance of being around addictive cycles and it puts you in kind of high alert a lot, and so there's kind of a perfect storm that can happen with that high alertness, the asthma, all that can kind of like create a lot of fun. Yeah, talk about hyper vigilance, You're like, what the heck is

going on? Totally totally, And I think that the kind of what I wanted to dig into about the anxiety is that it's related to this vigilance that takes you out of the present moment, right, Like all these voices are talking about things in the future, What might happen if you know, you're kind of fast forwarding, and so has this kind of practice of being in the present moment also reduced your anxiety, Like it's good to just be in the present moment generally, But has that also

helped you with some of these emotions? It has, if I'm honest, It's just hard, man, It's really, it's really it's really hard to be present. You know. I just admire a friend of mine, Natalie, her and her husband does. They just moved to la and Natalie meditates every day and she really practices it. And I just it's something that I so wish came naturally and it just and I know she's worked at it and started. Look, but

it's I want to do that more because it's amazing. Like, you know, it really works if I if I'm still and I sit in that stillness and I allow that space, it always works. But man, my body fights to do it, Like it is just not a default. It is not a default for me. And I know the more I do, I get better at it. But jumping into it it's really tough for me, really tough. Yeah, I think you're not alone. My colleague Dan Harris, who talks about this

stuff talks about. The meditation is kind of grabbing a goldfish in your hands and trying to keep it still while you're like holding it out of the water. That's what we do with our minds. God, I wish I could like be in your cool circles you guys talk about this stuff. I bet if you want to talk

to Dan Harris you can be on his podcast. But one of the things we want to do, and one of the reasons I love talking to you today is that despite the fact that this is so hard for you, you've also come up with this toolkit you can use whenever the stuff comes up. And they're so evidence based and so straight out of CBT, and you know, such a great way of talking about how they work for you. So I kind of wanted you to walk through some of these. You know. One of these techniques that you've

talked about is the not now technically. Yeah, so explain what this is and how you might a situation in which you might use it. Yeah. I feel like I use this a lot. It is very easy for me to live in the what if. My daughter just started driving, so the what if kicks in big time. There's a job that I might be getting in the spring that there's a lot of uncertainty to the location, so there's a what if there. Again, this is the first time I've thought about this, but I really think these voices

are coming from a place of protection. You know, Hey, I'm gonna give you every scenario you can think about so that you can prep for whatever emergency situation happens. I think it's motivated really by a place to help and I need to have compassion. Like I hear you, I hear that what if? Not now? Right now, I'm having a great talk. This is where I'm now. She

has a better zoom background than I do. It's like, it's just like that is where I am now, and and I and during that moment, let me just touch the table, let me smell the smell. Oh. Somebody said, oh gosh. They use something like five four three two one, where it was like start, have you heard this? It's like you seeing what five things? Are you seeing? Four things? Are you? And you? I don't remember how it went down,

but it was such a great tool. Yeah. So this is one that's often called the five senses technique, where you just force yourself like what are five things you see. What are four things you hear? What are three things you smell? What are two things you taste? One thing you touch? And when you get down to like taste, you're kind of like, I guess when, well, maybe that's

the one, that might be the one yet. But the key is that you can't be thinking about the what if at that point, because you're just kind of scanning for like, well, I guess I smell you know, my hate, I don't know, you know it's yeah, yeah. And so it's a powerful technique to just ground you in the moment. That's the big thing. It's grounding. And I recently got into rope bowl making. Wait wait, wait, what is rope

ball making? It's a rope I make these rope bowls and they this friend of mine, Sean, I gave me a rope bowl after I wrapped this last season of the first season of Mysterious been anxiety. And I've always wanted to paint. I've always wanted to do this kind of but I'm not a painter. And you make these rope balls on the sewing machine like pottery, and then you paint the rope and it's just and I give them as gifts and I just can't get enough of it.

But it's this, it's a focused practice for me because I'm watching this rope going through the sewing machine, I'm painting this rope, I'm listening to something and and it's really it's a tool I need because maybe for me at this point in my life, I'm getting better at meditation, but doing a rope boll is my form of meditation. Right now. I'm not sitting in a room quiet with my legs frost, but I'm doing something that's a little more focused. So that definitely that's a tool that really

has helped it. But the way to your question is I find myself just saying not now a lot, not now, And many times I don't want to be in the now. Many times I don't want to be in that space. But I not force myself, but I try to ease

into it a little more and just remember. I think one of the things I love about this mantra of not now is you force yourself to remember that you have a choice, right that you know it's not easy, but you can kind of shift back to the now, right that there's a sort of choice to our thoughts. And I think that is such a powerful realization. Man comes from therapy, it comes from CBT, but it's just powerful to realize like, Okay, thank you thought, but I'm

not going to listen to you. We'll come back later, Like you have a choice whether it feels like it or not. Do you know what's crazy though, is I don't know if you can if you relate to this. But when I do say not now, if I'm living in kind of a fearful what of space and I say not now, my body does not want to be more in a comfortable space. My body wants to be

more in the fearful space. And that is something really interesting to analyze, like why do I why is my default to go to this fearful space for creating this emergent situation which is clearly a lot of anxiety and I don't want to be in the silence space. I am now around my family and you're like, what is that about? You know, that's wild to me. This is a problem. I mean, you know, I wasn't consulted on

the design features of our bodies and our brains. But one of the things that that has good features but in this case is not very good, is it. Our thoughts are connected to our bodies. Race. You could be not now, not now, not now, but your fight or flight systems activated. You know, you have like you know, court us, all the stress hormone rushing through your body. You know, you might be like not now, but your body's like no, like fear, like like the future, like what.

But the good news is that your thoughts, there's lots of evidence that your thoughts actually can hack your body. Right, So if you just start saying no, not now, oh, let me talk to the guy at the curtain instead, I'm just going to pretend like things are fine. Then your your body reacts to because your body's like, oh, he's talking to the guy at the curtain. I guess there's not an emergency, like you know, shut everything down, like shut it down. So it's harder because your body

is connected to your thoughts. But you can also use your thoughts to hack your body too, which is pretty cool. That is cool, And I think the rope bowls is good for that to me too, because it's doing something it really does divert the attention from me big time. Yeah, chatting with Tony was an absolute blast. I enjoyed every single minute. We even ran over our scheduled interview slot because we were having so much fun that we lost chack of time, which kind of felt nice. This was fantastic,

Thank you for doing this. Leaning into the present moment like that isn't always easy, and it's especially hard in January, when we feel like we should be planning out the entire year ahead in the hope that that next big thing on the far horizon will finally make us happier. Tony learned the hard way that big things don't always feel as good as we imagine, and that they don't

fundamentally change who we are as people. So this new year, why don't we commit to being a bit more like Tony's children's book Creation Archibald, the brave little chicken who decided to stop being so obsessed with big ticket changes. We can stop worrying about the new jobs, new romances,

and new bodies and instead just be. Next time on the happiness Lab, we'll look at them many loud and competing voices telling us to change what we eat in twenty twenty three, we'll see that we may want to shut them up a bit so we can listen to a more compassionate voice that's telling us how to eat for ourselves. The Happiness Lab is co written by Ryan Dilley and is produced by Ryan Dilley and Courtney Guerino. The show was mastered by Evan Viola and our original

music was composed by Zachary Silver. Special thanks to Shanebeard, Greta Kone, Nicole Morano, Morgan Ratner, Maggie Taylor, Jacob Weisberg, my agent, Ben Davis, and the rest of the Pushkin team. The Happiness Lab is brought to you by Pushkin Industries and by me, doctor Laurie Sanchez.