Beat Your Isolation Loneliness

our well being. But whenever I'm confused or fearful, I always remember that looking for answers in evidence based science is the best thing to do, and that's why I'm hoping this podcast can help for those of you that haven't listened before. I'm doctor Laurie Santos. I'm a professor of psychology at Yale University, where I also live on campus with students. In the past two weeks, university life

as I know it has been totally upended. We've halted research and classes and have told our students that they can't come back from spring break. They just have to leave all their stuff where it is and complete their studies online. The whole process has been stressful, scary, and

really sad. My staff and I spent the last week dealing with problem after problem buying flights for students who couldn't afford it, and fighting through a web of emergency issues, and as of today, nearly every one of my five hundred students is gone. Buildings that usually hum with the sounds of hundreds of young people will now be empty for who knows how long. It's eerie and really lonely. And so I did what I'm guessing many of you

are doing right now. I began panic scrolling surfing my social media feeds, but it didn't provide the distraction I was craving. The latest news wound up making me even more anxious. I saw articles about panicked shoppers fighting over toilet paper. But then I saw a video that was a little more hopeful. Italians who were quarantined in their homes had opened their windows to join together and song.

It was just after that singing video that I saw an article in the Washington Post written by one of my friends, Jamie Zaki. Jamil is a professor of psychology at Stanford University an author of the book The War for Kindness, Building Empathy in a Fractured World. He's also genuinely one of the funniest and most optimistic people I've ever met. Jamie's article was the first real breath of

hope I'd seen in a while. He argued that our main weapon against the spread of coronavirus social distancing, doesn't need to break the social bonds that are so vital to our happiness with my entire community. Kicked off campus, social distance is a challenge that I'm really struggling with right now, and it's probably a challenge you're facing or will soon be facing. So I decided to call Jamille to get his advice and record our conversation so you

could learn from too. I started by asking about the videos I've just seen. As an empathy researcher, Jamil has the scientific scoop on how people actually react in a crisis. His work shows that supermarket fistfights overcanned goods aren't as common as we think. Disasters and catastrophes are so interesting for this reason. Many of us have a stereotype that when the lights turn off and the rules are gone,

that will tear each other apart. That's what movies like The Purge are about, that just under the surface, we have this kind of violent instinct towards each other. It turns out that basically the exact opposite is true. When disasters happen, like earthquakes or terrorist attacks or giant blizzards, people pour out of their homes to help each other. It's what Rebecca Solny calls a carnival of compassion. So you basically see people helping strangers in every way they can.

They line up for hours to donate blood, They overrun charities and then start their own. They help people and ignore boundaries of ray and class and all other social divisions that sometimes would separate them because almost as though a disaster, in putting us all at risk, makes us realize how much we have in common. But what's really scary about the coronavirus situation is that that's not happening right.

This is the paradox of and really adds to the tragedy of an outbreak like coronavirus, is that we have these deep instincts that when things are going really poorly, when we're in under stress, we have these deep instincts to seek out others for their help and to help them to use one of our greatest strengths, which is

our connection to each other. In one of the toughest moments, but the thing about coronavirus and other epidemics is that they force us, for the interest of public health, to go exactly in the opposite direction, apart when we want to be together, when we most need to be together. That's what makes this so tragic at even another level.

And I think you've probably seen it your university. I know we're now implementing social distance, saying right, so my staff is just standing behind, you know this big rope that says, really stay super far away. And what's amazing is people just normally have a hard time with this, like they want to walk up to each other and start talking. But I think in this moment, people really want like hugs and to be close to each other.

And it seems pretty crazy. It's so weird to see people who are obviously struggling and you do you have that impulse to reach out to them, to make contact, to lay hands on, right, to comfort each other, and

we're being stripped of that possibility. It's really it really does double down, I think on the damage of this epidemic because it's already scary, it's already killing people and scaring so many other people, but it also has the potential to have this long term psychological mental health fallout from this increase in isolation. I mean, we know that

loneliness is basically psychologically poisonous, right. It produces depression and anxiety idea, It worsens our response to stress, It increases inflammation, worsens our cardiovascular health. I mean, it damages us in ways that are really quite long lasting. And so to add a loneliness epidemic to the viral epidemic we're already living through is really you know, it's dangerous, it's tragic. Yeah,

I mean, loneliness is bad. But the flip side is that social connection can heal us in these incredible ways. So talk about some of the research that's shown how powerful social connection can be even in times of like physical and emotional trauma. I would say especially in those times. Right, So, people when they're going through stress, if they feel as though there are loved ones around them, people who care for them, they are able to bounce back more quickly

from those stressors. They experience them as less psychologically damaging, They recover from trauma more easily. There's even evidence from the brain that when people go through pain, for instance, like getting zapped with a painful electric that they experienced those shocks as less painful if they're holding the hand

of somebody who cares for them. Right, So, at a physical and psychological level, that connection really buffers us against suffering and against anxiety and against many of the experiences that we're having right now. But an additional thing that's really terrible about this virus is that it makes us avoid our fellow man in a different way. Right, we have to have this physical distance, But in some sense, the scariest thing for me is that other people will

become a threat. It's it's like we're living in a slow motion zombie movie, right. The people who you love, for people who you typically would want to be around, you have to kind of look at them and say, are they one of the infected? Right? And it's it's not a great feeling. I mean, I was. We went to the grocery store and was panic shopping for toilet paper like everyone else, and somebody sneezed in a crowded aisle and it was like they were going to be

gang tackled, right. I mean, it's it's frightening because they are vulnerable people in all of our lives, and we want to protect them, but in order to protect them, basically the threat becomes other people. So, as you say, it's not just that we're distanced, it's that we're fearing each other. And as you know, this also can exacerbate

some of the divisions that are already between us. There's been xenophobia and racism attached to some of the you know, some of the ways that people are talking about this virus, which often happens when people are scared, when they feel as though they're anxious, they often brighten the lines between us and them, which is, you know, and yet another

way that this outbreak can be psychologically damaging. The other thing that's really awful about this virus is that the people that are most physically susceptible to coronavirus also seem to be the people that are most mentally susceptible to things like loneliness. That's right, Yeah, and especially older adults you know, suffer from an increase in loneliness and also suffer more from the consequences of loneliness, including the sort

of added cardiovascular and immune risks. So, for instance, a giant meta analysis recently demonstrated that sort of chronic, severe

loneliness among older adults was significantly increasing mortality among older adults. Right, so we've got this really you know, possibility that feeling deeply isolated can actually shorten one's life, which again is really difficult given that, you know, older adults in our culture are getting this kind of double whammy, you know, the sort of both from the disease burden and from the burden of isolation. So that's the problem. So many of us are facing social isolation and the loneliness that

it brings. As I've said in previous editions of the Happiness Lab, loneliness is as bad for our physical health as smoking fifteen cigarettes a day, which means that as we isolate ourselves to fight this awful virus, we might be harming ourselves in a different way. And that's why

I was so hopeful after reading Jamil's article. He's come up with some practical solutions, ones that he's implementing with his own friends and family for how we can physically isolate in a way that doesn't feel so socially isolated. And I want to turn to those next. One of the reasons I wanted to talk to Jamil so badly and to share this conversation with you is that he's surprisingly hopeful that we can continue our meaningful interactions in

a time of social distancing. I totally get how lonely it feels to be isolated, but the great news is that Jamille's work offers us some hope. I do think that this is going to be a hard time for many people, and it's going to be a lonely time for many people. But one thing that I'm trying to remember myself and tell as many people as possible is that you know, actually we're all going through something pretty similar.

You know, you might be hold up in your apartment, working from home, feeling confused and scared and lonely, But guess what, so are the other people who are normally at your office. So is your third grade best friend, you know, so is your cousin. Right, I mean, we have more in common with more people than we usually do. This is, in a way, a vast shared experience, and if we could acknowledge it that way and try to truly experience it together, I think that we'd be able

to cultivate more social connection than we realize. Right, when you talk with somebody, even if both of you feel anxious. A lot of things happen. One you realize that your experience is shared. You're not alone in feeling what you're feeling. In fact, maybe that feeling brings you together. You express care for one another, and you feel supported, and you

feel able to support somebody else. Oftentimes, comforting someone else is one of the best ways to be comforted yourself, because in doing so, you locate a strength and calm that you didn't realize you had for the benefit of somebody else. I think we all share that instinct, but then when we try to connect, we do it in a way that provokes more anxiety. Like for me, I'm panic scrolling, which makes me feel connected to the other people on Facebook sort of, but it also really increases

our anxiety. Yeah, I think you're totally right. I've panic scroll the fair amount myself recently. Panic scrolling, first of all, is an overload of really anxiety provoking information all at once, like a tsunami of just distressing facts and figures. But I do think that there are ways that we can more intentionally engage in ways that build social connection rather than just making us feel even more alone and worked up.

And I think ironically right. A lot of us have spent most of the twenty first century blaming technology for like tearing apart our social fabric, and right now it might be our best shot for keeping that social fabric together. Right. So I write a lot in my book about how technology can build empathy, and a lot of it really

depends on the way that we use it. So around moments like this, around the coronavirus and social distancing, one thing that I think we could really try to pay attention to is how can we use technology to have the types of interactions that we would have in person? Right? So we don't normally just scroll through each other as minds, right, We interact live and try to share experiences together. Right.

So I think that FaceTime zoom in these moments are terrific, right, But not just using those technologies to like check in and say, ask people how they're doing, We should do that, but also just to hang around together, right. I mean, when we have a research meeting in person, right, we don't just talk about work and then leave. We dawdle, you know, we kibbits, We goof off together, and those in between moments are what matter most sometimes to our

sense of connection. To each other. So my thing has been, let's try to get online and do nothing together, watch a TV show with your cousin, or or go on FaceTime with somebody and make the same meal together and then drink some wine together. Right. I mean my lab, you know, we have a coffee room where we all used to just kind of hang out, and so we've created a Zoom channel that's just called the coffee room. Right, It's just for people to take a break together. Right.

So I think that if we can use technology to recreate at least some of the informality and sense of togetherness we have in the analog world, that would be one really helpful strategy. What's so funny about this idea to do more of our social events via Zoom and things like that is that our workplaces have figured it out. Right. We instantly translate to doing like you know, distance learning or kind of distance like meetings, But we forget that

we can do our social events at distance too. I know it doesn't feel as natural, right, I mean, I think that we're used to using technology to work, not to live, and I think a lot of us have the stereotype that technology is kind of anti social and I think that this moment is going to require us to really try to get over that perception and challenge it and push on it and see how much we

can just be there with each other online. I mean, this even goes for kids, right, I mean, so schools are closing and a lot of us are going to be hang out with our kids while their eyesolated too, And that's I mean, if it's hard for us, imagine how hard it is for them. Right. Kids depend on

their social interactions to like build their sense of self. So, I mean, one thing that we're doing is with some of our kids really good friends, we're buying the same our kids are very young, so we're buying the same coloring books, we're buying the same games, and we're going to try to see whether we can do FaceTime play dates,

where again, it's a coactivity. It's not just talking because you know, a two year old and another two year old aren't necessarily going to make scintillating conversation for hours, but maybe they can compare what colors they choose to draw the unicorn that they're working on. Yeah, but the adults still have to make scintilating conversation either, right, I mean, you forget that you can just PLoP down and like

Watchmpaul's drag race with someone else, but just over FaceTime exactly. Yeah, And I think we should lower our expectations from Maybe that's another issue with online interaction is we don't just overprofessionalize it, we overpressure it. We feel as though we should only be interacting so long as there's something to say. But that's not what we do in real life. So I just want us to bring the casualness in the

informality of life offline into our technological space. And I think that's a really great shot we have for retaining connection right now. So what do we know scientifically about whether or not this technology works. Is there research showing that you can get this kind of empathic connection from

people online just as much as in real life. Yeah, I mean I think that again, we have stereotypes about online connections and we feel as though they're necessarily shallow, or it's just a bunch of people posting cpatne selfees or pictures of their last meal or whatever. But there's a long tradition of people using the Internet to find real, deep connections, maybe connections they can't find offline. So One example of this that I write about in my book

is rare illness communities. So it turns out that rare illnesses are any illness that affects less than one in one thousand people, But there are hundreds of rare illnesses, which means paradoxically, some like big proportion of our community has an illness where their friends and neighbors don't know much about that illness and don't share their experiences. Some of those folks also have to self quarantine for reasons that have to do with those illnesses, so they can

be extremely isolated. But many of those folks take to online communities like Facebook groups or standalone websites like rare connect dot org, And there's a lot of evidence that on those communities, people don't just share like information about the latest treatments or whatever. They share their stories and it's an opportunity for them to feel seen, And you can think of them as basically oacs of empathy in a desert of connection for a lot of people. And

it's not just people with illnesses. There are a lot of us who have parts of our identity that we don't feel comfortable sharing with the people in our lives, and ironically, the nanimity of being online actually makes some people feel free to express vulnerabilities that they don't feel like they can talk about in other settings. So there is a tradition of real, true, and deep empathy on the internet. It's one that we will all have to

tap into more. Now you've seen examples of this even at your university, where folks are using technology to bring students together. That's right. Yeah, So I teach a little seminar for Stanford freshmen called Becoming Kinder, and it's all about designing experiences and interventions to help people tap into their really deep seated desire to help with and connect

with one another. And so, of course, when coronavirus hid and we were all meeting by zoom, the first thing we were talking about is how do we recover this? And they spontaneously said, well, you know what, we eat together all the time? You know, the dining halls are sort of the arteries of social life on a college campus. Why do we need to be eating alone just because we're in different parts of the country. So they've now

created but it's awesome. I mean, they've created dining halls that are virtual and They've created dorm lounges that are virtual as well, so they actually do different types of hanging out in different in different places. I mean, this coronavirus thing is incredibly scary, both in terms of our physical health but also in terms of our mental health. Are you hopeful that we can really use these technologies to bring ourselves together in the scary time? I mean, look,

this is a scary time. It will continue to be scary and it will be sad, and I think that I'm hopeful that we can work together. I'm always hopeful that we can work together. That's what our species is best at, and I think that we can work together at this as well. I think it will be important to do a couple of things. One to bring the most vulnerable people into these conversations. Right, So, my kids are digital natives, my college students are digital natives, my

parents are not. And older people are not just the most susceptible to really dangerous symptoms from coronavirus, they're the most susceptible to sellation. So I think it's going to be important for us to be inclusive in the way that we generate whatever digital or other types of interactions

we can manage. There's one more point that I want to make, which is that you know, as you said earlier, one of the tough things about an epidemic is that we have this desire to be kind to help others when we need to, when when we're going through something together that allows us to assert community, to gain control in a time that we otherwise feel helpless. And one of the things that it is hard about this moment is that it's hard to find ways to help other people.

But I want us to remember something. Social distancing from many of us is something that we're doing to be kind to others. Very young, healthy people don't have that high a risk of really developing severe symptoms from coronavirus, so their decision to engage in social distancing is really

a way to protect vulnerable individuals in our community. So I think that one thing we can do is just remember that even our choice to be alone is something that we're doing together, and it's something that we're doing for each other. I hope this conversation has given you some practical tips for fighting loneliness and feeling more connected

in this tough time. Talking to Jamille over a video call certainly made a rough day brighter for me, and so I'm super grateful that he took the time to connect. We'll return for another special episode of The Happiness Lab really soon because I want to bring you even more science back tips for getting through this worrying time. I plan to talk with leading experts as often as I can over the coming weeks and to share all their

important evidence back advice with you. But I also want to be sure we're tackling all the big challenges you're facing during this pandemic. So if there's a question or topic you think The Happiness Lab needs to address in the coming weeks, let me know. Tweet us at Laurie Santo's or at Pushkin Pods, and please include the hashtag Happiness Lab Pod. Until then, stay safe. The Happiness Lab will be back soon. The Happiness Lab is made by me,

doctor Laurie Santos. It's produced and co written by Ryan Dilley. Our original music is by Zachary Silver. We're a Pushkin podcast, so special thanks go to Jacob Weisberg, Miel LaBelle, Heather Faine, Carli mcgliori, Julia Barton, and the rest of the team.