An 80s nostalgia-fest with Molly Ringwald and Rob Lowe

would hit a nerve with our listeners. So in honor of how much you all loved our episode with Rob Blow, I'm sharing one of my own favorite episodes from Rob Blow's podcast, Literally with Rob Blow, where he chats with another one of my favorite eighties stars, Molly Ringwald Think sixteen Candles in the Breakfast Club. This episode is a fantastic look back at how starting as a young actor

informs your life as you age. Molly and Rob look back on their time in the eighties, catch up on what they're doing now, and have fun the whole time. Take a listen, and then go find Literally wherever you get your podcasts. I hope their conversation gives you a happy dose of nostalgia, and not to worry. The Happiness Lab will be back with more episodes soon. Hello, Hi, nice to see you again. You know that you were voted Idol of the millennium or something, and I was

number two. Wow, that's pretty impressive. I mean, I guess that's an accomplishment of some kind when you're firmly in middle age. Welcome to literally with me, Rob Low. Today we are kicking off season two. I've had so much fun making this podcast. I hope you enjoyed season one as much as I did. And season two is shaping up to be even more fun. And we're starting it off with a little celebration of the eighties, so little throwback.

We're getting in the time machine, and if you're going to talk eighties, you gotta go with the number one icon. Molly Ringwald. She is our first guest of the second season, and man, we're gonna get into it. But there's also more good news. We're going to do this thing called the hashtag Sacks Challenge on social media. So it's a big week and we're celebrating anyway. But let's stay on track.

Molly Ringwald, she's pretty in pink. She was on the cover of Time magazine before I was Okay, I've never been on the cover of Time magazine, but I digress. Let's get down with Molly Ringwald. It can't be that the last time we saw each other was when we worked together? Can it? Because I was a bazillion years ago, I think that was actually the last time we saw each other. Oh my god. For those of you who don't know, we did the Stand Together, the Great Stephen

King miniseries. I loved that miniseries. Did you get as much as I did? I loved it? I did, I really did. I know that they just did a new one which seemed like a sort of odd timing either really great time in a really terrible time, right, But yeah, I didn't see that one. But yeah, I really did like the one that we did together. I thought it

was special in a good way. I'll tell you what was really special about it, as Stephen King was there all the time and he adapted it and super nice guy, right, super nice guy. And I remember going to a lot of we shot it all in Utah, and I remember going to a lot of Utah jazz games with Stephen King. And there's this great moment we were walking through a parking garage and as we're just kind of silent and we kind of got couldn't find a car for a minute,

and he was like parking garages are scary. I want to write I want to write it about a parking garage. I was like, you know, when Stephen King is scared in a parking garage, it's scary, and I'm sure he did write it, like in a day. Speaking of writing, I went back and reread a lot of your writing. I love your writing so much. Thank you, really, I really really do. I was trying to think of why, like what it is that I respond to in your style?

And I think you have a tremendous clarity and insight and you but you don't write in a showy way, and yet it's totally evocative. And it's like, there's a great quote I have on my desk that Da Vinci said is um, simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. I've taken to collecting really good quotes, UM. And I think you kind of write in that, in that, in that style. UM. Have you who's your favorite? Do you have a favorite? UM?

Like celebrity memoir Mine was the David Niven books. I don't know if you've ever read those, you know, I don't. I don't think I've read a lot of celebrity memoir books. I think I I when I read it's mostly um, it's mostly fiction. I think that's kind of what's what's

always you know, kind of drawn me in. Um. I think Louise Brooks, though, I think I was always um, you know, I whenever I read a celebrity uh you know, biography, it's usually somebody that I'm you know, sort of interested in for for some reason, you know, maybe thinking about playing her in a movie or I don't know. Um. So the last one that I really remember loving was

was Lulu in Hollywood. I really like the ones where where it's pretty clear that the person is writing it themselves, or or if they're ghost written, it's it's so um well ghost written that that it doesn't take you out of it. But I think, you know, there's a few that that really write, like I think Mea writes her own Julie Andrews. I read hers, Hers is pretty great. Yeah. Um,

I have so much admiration for writers. Um, it's such a in my experience, it's such a sort of difficult and torturous thing to do, as opposed to acting, which you know, I've been doing since the day I was born, so it's it's a little easier, but Uh, but writing is I don't know, I just have so much respect for writers. Um, so when somebody manages to do it well, it's um inspiring. Was the first time that people were aware of your writing was when you wrote about John

Hughes after he passed. Do you think the New Yorker piece probably please? It was for me, I know, you know, getting published in the New Yorker for for any anyone, it's sort of like the pinnacle. I mean, it's if you if you want to be published anywhere. Um. It sort of was like it's it's like a stamp. You know, Okay, this person's an actual writer. They're not, you know, a dilettante. But you know, I've been writing for years. Um. You know, I'd been writing sort of like you know, book reviews

and profiles. You know. I had a friend who is a writer, uh named Dave Daily. I don't know if you've read his book it's about he kind of wrote the book on jerrymandering called yeah, called rat Yeah. Yeah,

well that's what they that's what they call it. So he before he was writing full time, he was an editor and a publisher, and he was one of those people that just I don't know, kind of encouraged me to write at a time when I didn't think that I necessarily could or that, let's put it this way, I didn't think that anyone would accept me as a writer because I sort of grew up in this time,

as did you. But I'm a woman where you're only supposed to do one thing, you know, and if you do anything else, then no one's going to take you seriously, and you know, and so I liked to saying and I like to write, but I thought, no one's going to take me seriously as a writer. And my friend Dave was just relentless with here, I want you to you know. He knew that I liked, for instance, the Magnetic Fields, and he would say, I want you to write,

Are you interested in doing a profile? And Stephen Merritt, you know or whatever, and so he would just he was the person that kind of really encouraged me into sort of kept me writing. And then um, and then I just got better, I think, because I don't think anybody, well, maybe some people start as a good writer, but I think it took me many years to really get better

and to really kind of call myself a writer. My writing journey began with ghost flack of a better term, ghostwriting screenplays that I would end up in, Like it'ld be a script i'd be in and I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. I don't, don't. And then and then you kind of like at lunch and your trailer scribbling out different speeches and what have you. And I did that a lot, and yeah, that's it got sort of started me. DoD you ever do any ghost writing or

like body and Fender work on any of your movies? Oh? Yeah, I definitely did. I mean I in the John Hughes movies that I did, Um, you know, so much of that was was improvised. I mean, the scripts are really great to start out with, but he was really open to um, to improv and you know, just making shit up and um, you know. But but I don't think

everybody was like him. I've worked with a lot of people who are really precious about their writing and m make it really difficult to change even one word, and so after a while you sort of, you know, throw up your hands a little bit. Yeah. But in my in my experience is the best writers are actually the ones that are the most open to what you're talking about.

I don't know, is that has I been your experience or I mean I would say that, and then and then I think of Aaron Sorkin, who is a great writer, and you are not changing jack shit. Well. I was talking to Brad Whitford actually the other day, who was who you worked with in West Wing, And I said to him what I just said to you, and then he brought up Aaron Sorkin. And my response to that is, Aaron Sorkin is in his own you have like Shakespeare ever here, and I, you know, I honestly think you

have Aaron Sorkin over here, So he doesn't count. We just like take him out of the equation exactly when he's listening. Aaron, You're you're, You're in your You've made it. You're in the same breath as Shakespeare. Um. I you know it's funny, is um? When people talk about the brat Pack, they always assume, first of all, maybe you and I had done more movies than we did together. We never did. We'd never worked together at all until the nineties. And then I never was in a John

Hughes movie. John Hughes was not calling my number for and I've been thinking about it for a while. I was like, why is it? Because I auditioned for Breakfast Club? Did you yeah? II part for Um Bender, for the part that Judd Nelson played. Okay, did you did you get? Like? Did you go the distance or did you just do one audition? I don't think. I barely made it out of my interview with John I and the only my only memory was the script was great. Yeah, it was great.

It was great. You were like, oh, this is going to be great. And I just remember um the Bender character in the script where a cowboy hat and the John never forget his I promise you, because it's not something I would just like make up And like, why do I remember that? A cowboy? I'm telling you, Molly. In the original draft, Bender was wearing a cowboy And then of course when I saw Judd with his you know, literally that is Judd Nelson's actual outfit with the untied shoes.

That man never tied a shoelace into his life. Well, you know what John did. I don't know if you know this, but he he asked me to do the Breakfast Club just as sixteen Candles was ending, because he had actually already cast it with local Chicago actors. In fact, Joan Cusack was going to play Allison and John I

think was going to play Bender. And then the studio wanted to do Sixteen Candles first because it was much more I don't know, like I mean, even though it was a female lead, it was kind of more of the teen movies that everyone was used to in terms of like big parties and you know, all that stuff. So so then he offered me a part at the end of that and I remember reading it on a plane. He wanted me to play Allison at first, and I lobbied for the role of Claire, who was called Kathy

at the time. I like lobbied hard. I was like, please, you know, no one would ever think of me and this Broadway. They only think of me as the weird girl and you know, the introvert and all of that stuff, and so and so then I did it. But by the time that we got to I think this was I think we filmed in February and he had offered it to me at the end of summer. By the time we actually got to rehearsal, he called me up and he's like, are you excited and I was like, yeah,

but you know, it's a really different script. And he's like, what do you mean, And I said, you know, it's just like so different than the one that I read, and he was like huh. And then the next day he brought in a stack of Breakfast Club scripts that he had written, and he just handed them out to all of us and and said, okay, pick your favorite, pick your favorite part. And these speeches just got put back in and characters were cut because he was he

was trying to appease the studio, you know. So he had like a n like a nude teacher swimming, and he you know, had this and that. But you know, he always maintained that his scripts really never got a lot better and rewrites. He didn't like to rewrite because he felt like they just didn't get better. So, I mean, I've never experienced that before where a writer director was like,

pick your favorite parts. By the way, if you take nothing away else, it all away from this conversation, just know that the way to appease a studio is nude teachers swimming. That's back in the day. That's what they want, that's what they're looking for. Yeah. I used to um, I always knew that on page seventy two. I had the page seventy two rule. On page seventy two, invariably that would be when the character they wanted me to play would be nude. It was always on page seventy two, always,

and what did you do? Did you did you do it? Did you turn it down? Did you have a body double? What? Sometimes I did it, sometimes I turned it down, But it was always on page I think every script written in the eighties, if you can get it on microfiche at the live my favorite word, um, on page seventy two. You'll see the characters having something steamy. Just had to do it, like, you know, nude teachers swim that's what they do and the you know that's what they do

up at school. Come on, yeah, evidently nude tea. Yeah, teachers like to hang out on a Saturday and just swim nude in the school pool. Like any teacher's going to want to be at a school where they work on a Saturday. It made absolutely no sense. But but the other part is somebody has to be watching. Of course, Oh, of course, of course, of course. Yeah. I got to make it as creepy as possible, Like if you swim nude and nobody watches did it really? Did you really

swim nude? Did it? Did it happen? Did it happen? That's really the question. Um. Yeah, So I auditioned for John and it's listen, it's not like John only made one or two movies that I would have been right for. I mean, let's fucking get real for a minute. I could have been in a lot of John Hughes movies. Nope, no ringy dingy thing, no phone CALLI no incoming phone call. He was not having what I was selling. And I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out what

it is. And here's what I think it is. Here's my philosophy. And I know you have many philosophies on John and and I've and just from a fifty thousand foot view, I think you're spot on. But I think would would you think would be unfair to say that John had a little bit of Spengali in him? Oh? Yeah, currently, yeah, Well I was a lot of things, but I was definitely not the kind of person that you went ooh,

that's a guy who needs his Spengali. I think I think you were I think you were probably too good looking for him. I think he was, you know, he was, he was very uh, he was very intimidated by you know, very good looking guys. And I mean, you're still a good looking guy, but at the at the time, I mean, no, you're a great looking guy. I mean, let's be let's be real here. But at the time, I think you were like Apollo, and I think and he was super intimidated by that. God you with a cowboy hat. I

couldn't taken the curse off of it. Wait a minute, I want to know, did you go to the audition with a cowboy hat? No? Oh, here's the other thing. Here's the other thing. It was a straw cowboy hat. Not just any cowboy hat. I was thinking straw. I guess, I guess it's kind of a Midwestern thing. I guess it is. Yeah, No, straw cowboy hats are definitely like rural Indiana, rural Illinois. For sure, you can get you can get away with it. Um. But no, I'm not a hat guy. I've never been able to pull off

a hat. And I knew that if I did put on the hat, there's no way I was getting the part that's so what was he like In the adition, I'm I actually never auditioned for John. Yeah, so I'm always curious to know what that experience was like for for other people. I mean, really, I think the only it was he was unremarkable. The only thing I the only reason I remember it is because I knew it was going to be. It was a very a movie everybody wanted to be in and it was really going

to be good. And you know, like you've said before, is um, you know, this was a breakfast cup. To this day I show it. I mean it is for me, the movie of the eighties. It stands up. I mean there's stuff in it clearly that's very, very dated, which you've written eloquently about, but it's like revolutionary, like along with fast Times. Along fast Times, it were doing high like they're real movies. Yeah, and you know, we weren't offered movies like that. They weren't making movies like that.

So um, to be in a you know, a real movie, um, was was an exciting thing. Although it was not to be. And I blame the fucking cowboy head. Hang on, I'm just gonna let my dogs in because they're gonna win. Oh yeah, let them in. What kind of dogs you got there over there? Oh? I have a few, I have five, I have three dogs. I have I have a little tiny dog. Oh. Yes, this is Millie Ringwald. Millie Ringwald, Millie Ringwald. Yeah, that's the greatest. Has her

own Instagram. I mean, come on, like this, this needs in their own Instagram. She needs her own Time magazine cover. Yeah, yes she does. Why don't you do that? She's sweet? She's sweet. I remember, by the way, I remembered that. That's what the tagline was. Yeah, yeah, can you forget? I wasn't. I wasn't crazy about that. When I saw that, I was like, okay, there, there you are. There, there's your there. Now you're going to be typecast pretty much

for the next forty years. How did that when they tell you're going to be on the cover of Time magazine? And how old were you? Eighteen? I was, Yeah, I was eighteen? What's that like? I got? I got the cover of Bop magazine. That's where my career was. I didn't understand that it was as big of a deal as it was. It was. It was actually Warren Beatty, who I'm still friends with, who was the one to tell me that it was a really, really big deal, because I was, like, you know, I was really psyched

about seventeen magazine. I mean, I was a kid and some Time magazine. I just didn't I wasn't reading Time Magazine at the time. I didn't really care all that much about it, but I knew that everybody else really cared about it. And of course now I realized that it was it was a big deal today now that no one cares about Time magazine or any of the magazine. Yeah, that's right, that's true. But I still feel like it's

you know, it's an honor. Like I remember going to a party in the nineties where everyone who was ever on the cover of Time was in. I did too, with the exception of three people. And see if you can guess who those three people were who were not invited. Okay, what time? What you need to know? What year was? This was like ninety, these late late nineties. Momr Gadaffi, Um,

he well, I don't know if he was invited. But no, that's not one of the three Monica Lewinski, Yes, ding bing bing bing bing ding ding ding and two more. Hang on, hang on now, hang on now, Um, okay, who are the other two? Who are the other two? Ken Star? Yes? And O J. Simpson? Yeah, J couldn't make it. Yeah, those are the and everybody else. I mean I invited my friend Victoria and it was one

of these experiences. I mean, I'm sure you've had these experiences where you're just like, wow, anybody that I would ever want to meet is in this room, and you know, and who who is it? Like? Who do I really want to talk to or have a conversation with? And so my friend, I'm pretty shy, but my friends who I invited is not at all. I mean, she will meet and talk to anyone. And I always like to be around people like that because it makes me a

lot more outgoing. And and she said, let's pick two people each and go and meet them and talk to them. And I said, okay. So my two people were Anita Hill and Tony Morrison, and her two people were Bill Gates and Gorbachoff. I mean, I mean, it's, by the way, that sounds like an actual dream. Yeah, So I'm a Unita Hill. And then I talked to gorba It sounds like a dream. Yeah. It was pretty cool, And and everybody and everybody seemed really excited to be there and

you know, and happy to be social. And it wasn't you know, it felt kind of exciting. Yeah. So, I mean when I think about Time Magazine and what that means, you know, I was. I was. I felt pretty proud to be you know, because I've never gotten award, been nominated for anything. I think I was nominated for one thing, like Best Newcomberer at the Golden Globe Awards, but lost out to Sandel Berkman, who was in that movie red Sonia. Yeah, Redna, what are you gonna do? Red Sonia beat beat me.

I've lost to a long line of luminaries. Believe me, tell me. Because I'm a huge Warren Baby fan and know him a little bit, but not not like you do, not like a lot of of my friends do. And he's I mean, he's one of my idols. It's like, yeah, who I kind of you know, um thought like he was it. I did have one great, one amazing evening at his house where he screened aat Burt Reynolds's double feature.

He had just won the Oscar for Red's you just won It, and the notion that he had to really do a deep dive on Burt Reynolds's Verra kind of made me laugh. Yeah, I wonder what he was doing. I mean, he must have been researching something. I just remember him turning to me in the screening room. I mean he insisted that I, yeah, I was with my girlfriend.

He was with his his girlfriend of the moment, and he insisted that I sit next to him and that in halfway through the movie turned to me and he m, yes, I see, yes, you see he's he's using so many long lenses, and I remember going, WHOA, Oh my god, how does he know what lens? Yeah, he's pretty he's pretty amazing to talk to, and not just about his his technological prowess and his understanding of films, but he pretty much has met everyone everyone, not just met, but

has had a conversation or a story about everyone. And I really wish that he would he would write, you know, his his memoir, because I mean, I know a lot of the stories, but I've I've never written them down, and I just I think it's just so interesting and fascinating. And there's just not that many people, you know, in our business that are that are left that have that kind of um you know, sort of access to like

old Hollywood, old theater, you know. And and also I mean he had a you know, an experience with Marilyn Monroe. You know, like, it's just that story is amazing, the Marilyn Monroe story. Yeah, it's it's just and I'll butcher, I don't really I've heard it apocryphy bunch. But Okay. I was going through your credits credits credits, and were you in the short film of Sling Blade? I was, what, Yeah, it was interesting. I was. I was living in France at the time and kind of, you know, I would

say I put my career firmly on the back burner. Um, but stuff was still sent to my parents house and um. And it was my mom who called me up in Paris and she was like, you know, there's the script that I got that I just, you know, I think is really interesting. And it was this short film called some folks call it a sling Blade, and I came back to shoot it. It was not directed by Billy Bob, it was it was directed by a man who has since died named George Hickenlooper. Did you know him? Oh,

I know the name. I didn't know he was involved in that. Yeah. Um, so he directed it and UM and Billy Bob was in it, and I played the reporter who um, who comes to interview him at the hospital. UM. And it was really interesting because at when when we met before, UM at a diner or something, he said, you know, I kind of I kind of do this this character. UM, I don't know, do you do you want me to just you know, wait, do you want me to do it now or do you want to wait?

And I was like, you know, save it, save it. I want I want to see it the like the first time. So the first time that I ever saw him do it, the camera was on me. No, And that was like completely offense. I mean I was not acting in that. I was just amazed. I mean he was amazing. He completely transformed and Yeah, it was. It was extraordinary. I was really happy to be a part of that. I was not so happy that he didn't call me back to to be a part of the movie.

I sort of was really bummed out about that. But I guess the movie really didn't focus on that. It really focused on him outside of the hospital. Yeah. I don't even remember the reporter being in the movie. Yeah, Yeah, I don't think I don't think it was, but um yeah, that was really really something that character people forget, And um, I know Billy a little bit. In fact, Billy is

the person who told me I should write He's. He was my guy that was like, you should be writing, and so I'm indebted to him and I've always been a huge fan. But he told me the story He's And I can't do a Billy Bob Thornton impersonation. I used to be able to, but it's been too long, but I wish I could because it helps the story. But he said he was sitting in some like honeywagon on some awful movie that he hated and waiting to act and just like, is this is this my life?

Is this? I'm like the seventh lead in a shitty movie up in fucking some freezing Canadian town in the middle of the winter, and he's looking at himself in the mirror and he just made that face, he made the Carl sling blade face yea, and then did it yeah yeah, And he started just fucking around like just

entertaining because he was bored, just entertaining himself. And that was the origin of Carl, and that was the origin of sling Blade and then he told me he wrote a short and I said, wait, it was a short, and then to see that you were in it. It's definitely one of my cooler credits, like that one, and like Jean Luke Gadar, I kind of like put that and we're he with Cassavetti's I sort of I put all of those sort of at the top of the list. Yeah, Um, do you still talk to him? I haven't seen him

in a long time. I talked to him um a lot when he was because my my um my best friend was who passed away a few years ago, was Bill Paxton. And Bill and he were really really good buddies and did numerous movies together. Um. One False Move Um is a great Sam Rami movie. So that was sort of my you know, intersection with with with Billy Bob Um God, I love him and that I can't believe I'm so jealous. Who else was in the movie?

Was it just my my My? I feel like it was like shot in a black box with a dangling light and it's just you and Billy. That's what I feel like. It was, like, Yeah, No, it was. It was another really fantastic actor who I think might have been in the um the actual movie. UM, and I'm blanking on his name and it's JT. Walsh. Yeah, I think that was him. About what he was, he was another patient. Yeah, he's insane yet he's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Yeah, he he He's died since then, but he was. He

was amazing. Susanne Cryer played the do you know Susanne Cryer? Um? That was her first job. She never she came out of Yale drama and had never even been on film before. And I remember, you know, telling her like what Marx were and kind of like, you know, favored the camera a little bit, you know, and and you know, and then of course she went on to have a great career. I'm trying to think of who else was in it, Billy Bob oh, oh, you know who was in it

is Jefferson May's. Oh, Jefferson May's great actress. Yeah, great actor. Yeah, it was. It was a really cool project. Do you ever feel because you've been acting as you were literally you're not kidding like like a baby, right yeah? Yeah, yeah, so that stuff like favorite of the camera, what marks are It's so in your DNA. Yeah, like it's just

it's like it's in your dan. You don't even think about have thought about it in years, And then you work with somebody who's brand brand, brand new, and you're like, oh, bless them. Ye listen, if you can't see the camera, the camera can't see you. Yeah, do you have to do that with Emilio Stevas you did, didn't you? You You had to be like Amelio? These are marks. I know your papa didn't have them in the jungle and he

was making Apocalypse. Now this is a library set. No, Amelio had done a few things before, um, you know, before we did Breakfast Club, right, he did Repo Man, he did it well. Of course, the Outsiders, he did a few stuff. Yeah. Just I mean all of those people. I mean, I'm trying to think. So Ali, I did two movies with Amelio, I did two movies with um Judd, I did one movie with That's sort that's that's the main group of the Breakfast Club, right. Yeah. Well Michael Hall,

Michael Oh never worked with him. I loved him. He was so good in those movies and still is. He's an amazasing actor. Yeah, he really is. He Uh, he's so funny, so smart. I don't know if you've been watching um, the bo Burnham inside of course, Um, there's something. I mean, I'm kind of obsessed and um you know now I think I've watched it like five times all the way through, just because I'm so I'm so intrigued to know how he how he did it, basically, like I want to like take it apart like a watch

and put it back together again. Um. But there's something in bo Burnham that reminds me a lot of Anthony Michael Hall. I don't know, it's like just how incredibly smart and sharp. And also when I knew Michael, he was really tall, like he grew just overnight too. You know, I think he's way over six feet and he's kind of gangly, and you know, loved George Carla, and there's there's just something in the two of them that I that I think is really similar. Um, but I haven't

I haven't seen him for years. I m I visited. I can't remember what set it was. Which one of your your movies was Joan cusack In. She was in sixteen Candles. She played the neck brace girl. Right, that's yes and is Michael Schaufflin in that Yes, of course, he yes, he's the guy, Michael. Yeah, Michael Chaufflin is the guy. I visited that set. Didn't meet you, but I was there one day. I was really in Chicago. Yeah, I was doing class. Oh yeah, and John Cusack was

in class. That's right, right, Andrew Andrew McCarthy, that's right. So I came and I remember meeting everybody, and then my girlfriend at the time was going off to do a movie with Michael Schaufflinglin later, and I was like, oh, that handsome little bastard. It was very jealous of Michael Chaufflin. And Michael Chafflin's just like disappeared. I mean, I mean, I mean just completely from from public eye anyway. He just tapped out, he said, I've had enough, I'm taking

my winnings and leaving the casino of Hollywood. Yeah. And and and I think he's the last time I heard he's like a carpenter. I don't I don't know if that's just like an urban legend or what. But no, that's uh, that's Daniel day Lewis. No, he's a Taylor, isn't he all that? Yes, isn't he a Taylor Or is he a cobbler? Maybe he's a cobbler. I think it's a cobbler. Maybe he's making cobbler Daniel day Lewis's fruit Cobbler insane? Um tell, Okay, I'm obsessed with the

pickup artist because here's what I remember about the pickup artist. Okay, that was another one that like, as a young actor, everybody's like, ooh, the pickup artist, like James Toback, oh edgy James Toback and and Warren Batty was like he was like under his auspices and everybody wanted to be in it, and it was all very mysterios So and you know, I just picture these meetings at the Warren's Mulholland spaceship house, and I just it's it's become this

like mythical movie to me. And and then there was there there's the urban legend that he that Tobac is such an inveterate gambler that he chose the locations to be close to the off track betting sites. Have you heard that one? I yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all. Yeah, it was did wait, did you did you do any of the I know that Warren had a lot of readings at his house, sort of like trying out different people. Did you ever do any of those? No? Again, you know, Warren,

like John Hughes, was not was not calling my number. Um, And I don't know what it means. I'm very disappointed that my hero was not. I know, but he's always said nice things about you. Oh I love hearing that. I'm a huge Warren fan. What can I say, just that he's he's the man. But I was very Now I remember why I remember it so much because I was in therapy over it that I never got to go.

You know, that was a cool house, though. You you went to the spaceship house, right, right, Okay, so my memory of it, okay, this is great because I've never this is oh, thank you, because my memory of it is it's a fucking spaceship And and when I went there was no furniture, or very little furniture except the oscar was on the mantel for Red's and he he and he said, yeah, I'm sorry. I just haven't had a chance to really furnish of him. I've been away

shooting for a couple of years. I was like, yeah, I know, I think maybe you went to the Spaceship House before I did, because by the time I went there there there was some furniture, not a lot, it was not it was a pretty sparse house. But I remember this big, huge grand piano. Yes, I think that was then because Warren plays piano. Actually he did piano bar before, you know, while he was you know, supporting

himself as a as an up and coming actor. Um. And then I remember, uh, you know, the next time I was there, there was just a Degau statue that was just sort of capfully placed on the piano, like what you got the de Ga? I got the Oscar. That's that's that was his move. Just Oh, by the way, y way were you were you always the feet? Like so who did you read with? Who are the different people that you came up and read with up there

at the Spaceship House. Um, I never read with anyone, but I knew that that readings were happened, Like I really wanted to do it because I just really wanted to work with Warren. Um. Yeah, you know, I mean I would have loved to have, you know, been in a movie that Warren directed, and Warren kind of I mean, Toback was a director, but you know, Warren was involved, so he was he was directing everyone, um all the time. Um. But I remember he would call me and say, you know,

what do you hey, Hey, what do you think? Uh, what do you think of Demi Moore? What do you think of you know, Susie Amos, what do you think of it? He would he would ask me what I thought of all these other actresses, and it was driving me crazy. I was like, just cast me. I want to be in it, you know. But he was like, I don't know if this part is big enough for you, you know, because this is after pretty and Pink and

you know everything. But I liked I actually really liked the idea of playing supporting roles coming out of those movies. You know. I really wanted to kind of not feel like a movie was sitting on my shoulders. Um. So I like that idea, and I liked the script. I thought the script was funny. And you know, of course it would never get made today, one of them would. Yeah, I know, it's I mean, it's hard when you go through them your your resume, When when one goes through

one's resume, it's I mean Breakfast Club. I can't imagine that ever getting made. It certainly wouldn't get made as a movie to be in the movie theater, if if barely at all. I mean, it'd be made for absolutely a shoe string and it would be, you know, a sundance movie, if you're if You're lucky. Yeah, yeah, And I kind of missed that. I have to say, I miss I miss movies that aren't spectacles. I mean, I

enjoy going to spectacles too. I just went to see The Black Widow with you know, with my kids, and you know, I'm not a big superhero kind of movie, but you know, I enjoyed it. But the part that I enjoyed the most was the relationship with the acting. Yeah, the acting and the and the relationship between Scarlett Johanson's character and Florence Pugh. Um yeah, I thought they were amazing. And I thought that the reason why it's a good movie is because you are invested in these people. You know,

I think you'd be great in a Marvel movie. I as a Marvel mastermind. I want you. I see you as a mastermind though. Yeah yeah yeah, with that fear with his hand, that vibe. Yeah, I would actually love that. I would love to play a super villain by way, just the notion of you your name, like, and guess who's playing. Um, I don't know, I don't know what's give me a super villain name? What's it like? A just let's make up your own. Well. I always thought,

I mean, it's not a Marvel property. I think it's DC. But I thought if I ever did a super villain, I would want to play Bookworm. Oh great, there you go. I mean how cool would that be. I think it'd be super fucking hip. Yeah, well, let's put it out there, rob Let's put it out there in the universe. Yeah, you be Bookworm. I want to be Green Hornet. Oh okay, I believe I could be green, you know. I mean it could happen. You know, they're gonna run out of

actors at some point at some point. Yeah, And I feel like it would just be it would be such a great opportunity to get in shape, you know, like I really want to be put on that. It's like Marvel Marvel diet, Like I just see you know, yes, right, and take those those whatever they're doing to look like that, you know, I want some of that. I say that same thing all the time ago. The whole point of being is Marvel is to have, you know, doctor feel good.

He probably carries a Marvel doctor bag that has the Marvel logo on it, and he shows up to he shows up to every actor who's twenty pounds overweight, who just signed to play the you know, the green Henchman or where the fucking character it is, and opens up that bag and the next thing you know, you're on drugs and you are just shredded. Yeah, you don't know what hit you. That's what I want, That's what I want.

I mean, it's quite something. Do you think there's like a special floor at the Marvel building where they have like actors on treadmills, like where they do animal experimentation, except it's on actors, and they're like, have you seen Kamo Johnny? Look at him, He's went from a from a thirty six ense waist to a twenty eight inch waist, got a tortoshell abs. Yeah, I'm sure they are all ripped. I mean they just they all look better than they

will ever look in their entire lives. So so yeah, I feel like if if that could happen, I would definitely be up for a superhero movie. Do you know that? I never you know who the first person who ever got me to work out was? Who? Okay, let me know it. This is a good game, Okay, this is oh. Oh, I know who it is. I know who it is. I know absolutely who it is. Aili. It's Amelia totally. I knew it. I fucking knew it. I knew it. I never even I don't even think I understood the

concept of working out. I mean it was like you had pe at school, you you know, maybe took a couple tennis classes, you know, but like working out. Actually, you know, Yeah, he hooks me up with this guy, Jackson Susa God to get out. I swear he came from my house in his fai parents house in the street. No, it was in the back of it because I was still living with my parents when I, you know, I was doing the movies. Um, and I remember, and I was pretty skinny. I mean I was just like very

naturally a skinny kid. But I remember him pinching me and telling me up, you know what that is? That's that's subcontanious fat like what what? Yeah? I never never even I'm not sure I knew what subcontainious meant um and never ever was called fat in any way, shape or form, but by yeah, Jackson Susa. But that that was the first time I ever worked out with a trainer,

Thanks Ameilio. He was my trainer to Jackson Susa. And he'd show up in a van and sometimes we would find a street literally a cul de sac and pull over and he put all his shit out in the street and we work out in the middle of the street. Oh wow, And that was an Emilio. Emilio used to

wake me up. I'd be asleep and I'd wake up an Amili be standing over my bed and he'd have he would be fully dressed in his dolphin shorts and his tank tops and he would hold my running shoes in front of my face and wake me up in the morning. You go, because he always said, wake up, it's your worst nightmare an actor in running shoes and that's what he said. And then I would have to go run with him from point doomed trank Us and back. Wow.

Do are you still friends with Amelia? I haven't seen him in a long, long, long, long long time, because he's I think he's like living in Ohio part time and stuff, and then he's shooting up in Canada's Yeah, I see Martin a lot. We did the West Wing reunion and he's, you know, just the best. And and every once in a while I'll get a really funny phone call from Charlie m and I had McCard Andrew on the podcast a few weeks ago. He was so great. I hadn't seen or spoken to Andrew in so many years.

And his book's amazing. If you haven't read it, it's quite great. I haven't read it yet, he U. He very nicely sent me all of the you know, sections that I was in, which you know, he didn't he didn't have to, but I thought that was really nice of him, and he was very respectful. And you know, um, he's a really good writer. I mean he's he's another one who's been sort of writing for years and getting progressively better, and um, yeah, he's a he's a good guy.

His son played my son in his first movie, which was weird because it was like I would have these moments where I would look across and I would just see Andrew's eyes, like they don't really look a lot of like, but they have two same eyes and they're both a total pain in the ass. So like, oh my god, I'm like back in time. Oh well, it was my youngest son, Um is an actor and started his first movie this summer, big independent movie, well independent

big it is independent movie. And his dad was played by Andrew. Oh my god. And so it really feels like the like the matrix is about to break. Yeah. I agree. My daughter Matilda has just started acting, just did her first self tape and oh my god, and it's so it's so funny because I feel like I've gotten to the point now where you know, rejection doesn't sting as much as it always did, because I, you know,

I've had incredible success. But like any actor, you you know, you go through there's always somebody else that they want, you know, no matter how much you do, there's always that that sting of rejection. But I finally have gotten to a place where I get a lot of my creative you know, juju from somewhere else, and so I

don't really need it as much. Um. And then now that my daughter's doing it, I feel rejections so much more, and I'm just like, oh my god, now I have to start all over again feeling all of this stuff, and it's way worse when it's your kid. I don't know if you feel that way, but I mean I feel that way. Like how could anybody not just think, you know, is and she's really good? I was really That was another thing I was really nervous about, is what if I have a an actor kid and they

just suck you know what? Am I gonna what am I gonna say? Yeah, that's that's a real issue. I'll tell you what. I freaks me out as all of the self tapes because when we were when we were in there was no self tape. I remember when it was a big deal for them to have a camera in the audition, Like they had to tell your agents they were going to do it, you had to agree

to it. It was super frowned on. Yeah, it's like you would always say, you know, she'll she'll do the meeting, she'll do the reading, but she won't do the self tape, or you know, or she'll meet with you, but she won't read. I mean, yeah, there's all these rules about it and the self tape. They would always say, Oh, it's just for blah blah blah, it's just to see the chemistry, or it's just for this, nothing's ever going

to happen with it. But of course, like they're all on YouTube now, or you know, I just got, I

just got. I had to sign off to have a self tape that I did, or not a self tape, but you know, a videotape because they're releasing the the behind the scenes for Labyrinth, which I auditioned for back in the day that Jennifer Connolly got, and I was part of me was really annoyed just because they told us, you know, that these weren't going to go anywhere, and then the other part of me is like, ah, fuck it, I don't care. The outsiders auditions are out there a lot,

and they're they're so nut, they're so mental. My favorite one is Kate Capshaw. Wow, and it's like so incongruent. You're like, wait, that's Steven Spielberg's wife, and and they're like and how old are you? And she good answer? Yeah, those old auditions things are so crazy. I love Matilda Matilda. I love that. That's so good. Maybe she and Johnny can do a movie together. Yeah, how old is your son? He's twenty five? Okay? And did you do the thing where you didn't let him act for a long time

or were you always yea? Yeah, it's the it's the Gwyneth Paltrow rule. I call it. What's that? So? I'm very friendly with the Paltrow family and have been since Gwyneth was probably fifteen, and it was like patently obvious that she was a sensation in waiting. It wasn't even up for debate. Yeah, and you know, people throwing movie roles at her modeling contracts. She's like a fifteen year old gold doesn't She's like whatever, yea and I would. And then when she find she finally did you know,

work and won the Oscar so early. I remember at the party talking to her dad, Bruce Paltrow, who created many great television ship series, and I had young kids and I was fearful that they wanted to be in the business. And I said, Bruce, what did you do with one of like how did you handle it? And he said, we just had one rule. She had to go to college, and she did not act until she was at least eighteen. And now, by the way, Gwyneth immediately dropped out of college. But that was that was

the rule. I had with my boys too. The Paltrow rule. Okay, well that's good. I wish I had known the Paltrow rule because I have been I have been suffering for years. Why won't you let me? Why won't you you know? And I'm like, look, you can you can act, you can learn to act. I got her teachers. You know, I feel like I could teach somebody else's kid how to act or or I could teach them to be a better actor. You can't do that with your own kid, or at least I can't. So I got her with

a really good teacher. And I'm like, you know, you're just you just need to have a really big toolbox because you know, maybe more doors will open for you. But people maybe might be a little bit more critical than they will with the average you know person. Um. But I wish I would have known the Paltrow role because that would have made my life a lot easier. But it's hard though, Like if they get like a somebody comes to them with something that's really great, You're like,

m there's something I want to ask you. Actually, please turn the tables. Are you still married to the mother of your children? Cheryl? Yes, Cheryl and I celebrated our thirtieth wedding anniversary last week. Congratulations, thank you. Um, that's amazing.

So I'm sure people have asked you this before, but what do you what do you attribute to the longevity because I think, you know, especially in Hollywood, that's not that's not so easy to ye to be with the same person for for you know, forever, I always say the same thing. It's that I believe it's Alfred Hitchcock. It might have been another director, it might have been Billy Wilder. But when they asked them, what do you attribute the keys to a hit movie? And he said, casting?

And I think that's what it is with the marriage. It's it's casting and you know, picking the right person, you know, And I really believe that that battle is won and lost right there, and you know from you know, for me, Cheryl is and it was and is my best friend, right and um, so no matter what, we started from that place and and the rest of it all followed. And so no matter what, that's the basis

when everything ebbs and flows. And look, you know, there's good days and there's bad days in any long term relationship. But if the baseline is best friendship, like like when something good or bad happens, it's the first person you want to talk to about or if you have I remember I had one the ability to bring somebody on a press tour around the world on a movie Andybody, when I was single, anybody, and and and there are times when I brought male friends and my best buddies.

And when I met char I was like, I'm gonna bring Cheryl and and that's sort of one. I was like, Yeah, if you have one seat on a worldwide tour and you want that person to be with you, Oh, I really love that. I'm I'm going on um next February. It will be twenty one years with my husband no Yea, who also, as you could see, was also my IT guy. I love that. But yeah, I feel the same way. You know. I really feel like if I was going around the world, he would be the person I would

want to to go around the world with. And he's he's the one I want to talk to at the end of the day and you know, wake up to in the morning. And that really has never gone away. And so yeah, I feel really grateful for that. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm happy for you that that is good and you know, people listening is like, that's a really good litmus test. You know if if the you know, if it isn't that person, you maybe want to rethink it because the rest of it comes goes whatever, but

that never goes away. Yeah. And also somebody that can make me laugh. I mean he makes me laugh like crazy, and that that's always been really important for me. That's actually something that I realized about you because I didn't really know you. I mean I feel like we had all these people in common, but I didn't know you until we did stand together, and I remember sort of like, oh my god, he's so funny. Like I just thought of you as this like good looking guy and then

you just made me laugh so so much. Do you remember that scene that we had to do where it was like the camera we all we had to respond to something and the camera was like moving in really fast and we had to be like, oh do you remember that day? Yes? I do, you know. I think we shot it for a hundred years. I mean we literally show it was like it was a six month shoot in Utah. Six months, yeah, six months, So um, I had never We're talking about acting and acting learning

acting acting coaches. I was pretty much self taught and started working from such a young age. I learned on the job. But my wife, as is her want, we'll say things to me like, you know, this is a really good part, honey, thank you. Maybe you should get an acting coach, thank you. I think. So when I got the stand, I'm playing the character who you know, can't talk, can't hear, and so she's like, this is really an opportunity. So I went and I studied with

Roy London. Now Roy London, if you don't he was the man in Los Angeles, Yeah, the guy, the guy, and so he had I think Brad Pitt when he was blew up with thumb and Louise was a big Roy London. Sharon Stone from the Jump was Roy London, Gary Shandling. And so I met with Royce. You know, he says, send me the scripts and then we'll come talk about them. I sent him the scripts. He reads all the scripts. I come and sit with him and he says, so tell me what you're thinking. And I said, well,

you know, I don't know. He's he's deaf, and you know I'm deaf in one year as well. I can barely I can't hear at all on one side of my head, so I mean, it might be an interesting thing where I get a device and you know, like a T T Titanus whatever, the tinitis device and put it in my ear so I could put a white noise in it, so then I don't hear, and he goes, let me just please, let me just let me just ask you, why would why would you want to do that?

I said, what do you mean because he's deaf, and I mean, yeah, I understand that, but you're playing the parting you're not deaf. Yeah, he goes, why would you ever want to add another level of falsehood to your performance? Because I'm thinking about like people who are blind so they put a fucking mask on and stagger around their house for eight weeks, all that shit you hear about all the time from actors. And Roy's thing was that's

exactly what you do, not do. And his thing and this is the most counterintuitive, bizarre thing, and by the way, I don't use it all the times, but he was like, the fact of the matter is you here, So what you have to do is figure out why your character hears and chooses to let people think he doesn't and he goes, and of course you must not ever tell anyone Molly Ringwald this, this has been so fun. This makes my heart just swell and be happy. It's really

really great to see you again, talk to you. I'm so glad. Congratulations on living your best life. As the kids say today, Thank you you too, and I hope that we get a chance to work together again, maybe in a Marvel movie. And I'll see you at the at the Marvel the super Secret Marvel Gem. I will be in the treadmill next. You hooked up to an ivy right, Thanks Molly, thank you. Well that was fun.

She's so thoughtful and smart and it's always good to see somebody who's been there, done that and is living a great life and loving their life and in a great place and just legitimately makes my heart happy. I hope you had as much fun as I did. Okay, so before we wrap up for the week, I know you're ready, I know I am. It is time, Yes, it is for the lowdown line. Hello, you've reached literally and our lowdown line where you can get the lowdown

on all things about me. Roblow three two three five seven zero four five five one so have at it. Here's the beep, Hey, proub, this is a Dakota here in Nebraska. I was wondering if you actually link the Atkins products kind of looking heavily into that, you know, low carb, high protein, low sugar. Two. Also, I want to know how things are going with nine one loan Star. Can't wait for the new season. So yeah, I just Dakota in Nebraska is great. It could have been Nebraska

and Dakota just as easily. So thanks for the call. Not only do I love the Atkins stuff. Like one of the things when when I was talking about getting into business with Atkins, because I've been eating the Atkins way for for years and what Frankie wasn't even where they had products at first was when they sent me the protein shakes and they were so like literally like milkshakes,

and I was like, this has to be bullshit. It has to be like these protein bars are so yummy, they can't possibly be as good for you and have the ingredients that they have, and they do. So yeah, I'm I'm a big believer in low carb life. It's made a real, real difference for me. And same with low sugar, although that's that's hard to beat. That's a struggle that I one step forward, two steps back, nine

one one lone star. Thank you for watching. We finished the year as I think the number two rated show in all of television, two or three in all of TV. So we will be back for a third season and we will be back, premiering in January of this coming year. We will not be back in the fall. We're going to be in January on Monday nights, same place on Fox,

and really really super good stories coming up. I'm really really excited about about year three and I love doing it and I love that people are loving it as much as they are. Thanks for calling. We'll be back next week with more. Literally don't forget to subscribe. Hit that subscribe button. It's very good for the Literally family. Thanks so much. You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, Produced and engineered by me Rob Scholty. Our coordinating producer

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