How to Survive Creator Burnout and Still Scale (Karat Reshare) | Ep 888

Welcome back to the game. This is a guest spot on Eric Way's podcast He's the founder of carrot which is a very large company That helps creators get credit Kind of interesting business model, but this is a super super business podcast So I would say this is probably on the more advanced side But we talked about obviously a little bit on the creator side of how they can build big businesses what I look at when I invest.

companies and my philosophy around content as our competitive advantage in the private equity space. Enjoy.

If I had that size audience, I'd already been fine. Whatever, shut up. When I met you three years ago, you would just... on your career journey. Since then, millions of followers. The reason people followed me was because the systems were good. And so because the systems were good, they didn't need me for the systems to work. When I look at creators in the space who've successfully actually done this, it's actually very minimal. I actually think creators

traders are horrendously bad at picking product. Your constraint is not that you're a 97 out of 100 on content. It's that you're a zero out of a hundred on monetization. That's a powerful concept right there. I think that when people promote anything, they get backlash because anything that you give me that is not free, you die. You're saying that people have followers, but they don't have influence.

The point of short form is one thing, which is to drive them to low form. Would you invest in content creators? Alex Ramosi might be the first creator billionaire, and he's built his business really differently from other YouTubers in my follow like MrBeast. Today, Alex shares why most creators aren't a broken business model, the five ways to make money from content, and how to turn your social media into a real business.

If you're a creator wanting to grow, listen to this pod for 21 secrets from poor Mosey on how he did it.

When I met you three years ago, you had just started on your career journey. Since then, millions of followers, 250 million are writing for portfolio companies. Is this where you wanted to be? I don't consider myself a traditional creator. I had businesses and had businesses outside of this that aren't my face and anything. But I saw just the monster amount of impressions that social media was getting and giving away.

for free and i was like this is the most insane thing i've ever seen and to this day i still think it's crazy that like we can get a hundred million a billion impressions a quarter for free i think about creators in two buckets yeah i think there are uh the words guys

And then there are the video guys and then the crossovers audio that I'm a little bit above. I started making YouTube videos and I wrote a book basically about the same time. Yeah. And then the book kind of took on its own, you know. growth path. And then the videos also did too. The nature of how I've done things is that I'm all about business process and system. The reason people followed me was because the systems were good.

And so because the systems were good, they didn't need me for the systems to work.

whereas many businesses don't have that. And a lot of people follow the creator for other reasons that are not that, that are less duplicable. It's fascinating too, because what you've built, it's a private equity firm in a way, but most private equity firms add value by cutting and slashing operations. In a way, you're adding value because one, here's the business process to run. The influence you've now built about talking about facial systems, now you've been able to...

bring in your face to increase it so yeah and I think what you said at the very beginning which is that like entrepreneurs are realizing just the amount of attention that's here and this is just a way to advertise your business I mean that was the that was the entire thesis about acquisition.com was I'm a big fan of something old and something new so like something old private equity with something new social media

And like, how do we, how do we bridge that? How do we, how do we merge that now? Cause there's been old school. I mean, Warren Buffett's an influencer for sure. He's just legacy media. Um, Ray Dalio is an influencer. Now he's starting, you know, he's making his TikToks and things like that. Um, Naval's an influencer.

Of course, these guys get deal flow because they're out there. You know, they're talking about business. And so they get it. I just took what they were doing and just like did a lot more. Right. What type of companies we look for. the process overall. Those things have changed a lot from when we probably spoke three years ago. because three years ago i was looking at basically running the gym launch playbook that we did, taking a company that has basically...

digital media driven, that is vertically integrated education around a specific sector. Yeah. And then wrap in business services and then be able to package that because you have revenue retention and then sell it. Right. and transition from a face-driven business to a consulting business that's in one niche. It's a difficult operational challenge for...

for face-driven businesses to remove the face. I think that makes sense. Like, Taylor Swift isn't looking for somebody to, like, step in and sing for her. There's a tension in what you said. You became the face. for faceless systems your premise was i have these processes that work 100 million offers 100 million leads you don't need alex formose to literally be doing this and get value from it exactly it's to empower you to do it as you said

The business model of the crater is very different. Colin Semeer talked about how there's an inverted pyramid where the crater is almost the... choke hold the gate point for everything because you need taylor swift to be there yeah now you are an influencer and so it

funny because you're like, well, I'm going to help you do a system where you don't need me. But now people follow you for that. I think once upon a time, there's a conception of a creator as like the Casey unites the auteur. Like, oh, hey, I make money to make content. Where I've started is on YouTube and the advertising the brand deals is what supports me

I think now you're seeing creators becoming entrepreneurs and con is just becoming how they market themselves. In some ways, like the reputation of the creator.

Yeah. Was branded, if you will, like in a figurative sense, like branded by the early creators, which is not reflective of how you advertise a business today. for creators who want to follow in your footsteps, do you think you'd advise them to double down on the creative distribution side of what they do or to try and get better at the building business piece of what you do? Really interesting question.

I think it depends on your goal. So if your goal is to make money, then learn the money game. If your goal is to make content, then just keep making content. I had a conversation with other Uber creators not that long ago, and we operate at EchoZone.com off the theory of constraint. And so the positive of the theoretical experience is that. any system will grow until it's constrained and it will grow no further. And so...

You know, these gentlemen had, like, subscribed to that, and they said, hey, Alex, I think we understand what our constraint is. You know, we have our media and our content creation machine. The constraint of it is, like, we need better editors for whatever so we can get even more leverage on our time. I said, what's the goal? and they said uh we want to make fun and I remember kind of like smiling about this and I was like,

Your constraint is not that you're a 97 out of 100 on content. It's that you're a 0 out of 100 on monetization. If you don't care really about making money and your passion is making videos about whatever it is that you make videos about,

then, like, you won. Congratulations, you're making videos about stuff. This was, yeah, you were like, if I could just quit my job and make videos about Dungeons & Dragons, then, like, I would do it. And it's like, awesome, you won. Like, so now... where to from here but there are creators that i've talked to who i'm like hey so what do you want they're like dude i just want to make money and if that's the case then you got to learn the game in 2024 you started working with school

And so I think it's an interesting question using yourself as a case study. Number one, the product that you're associating with, it's not one that you like built in all nuts and bolts yourself. It was very much, here's an existing company. but I can grow it. And so it kind of comes down for creators to question of,

hey, do you really want to lean into being an entrepreneur and do it yourself, or do you just want to do a brand deal? This is going to be really interesting, because I've given a huge amount of thought to this. So I'll see if I can get the number right, but the...

Creator paths exist on a spectrum, basically five paths of monetization for a creator. And they exist on an axis of control. And so at the lowest amount of control, you have sponsorships, right? Like people just pay you money. You give, basically you're an advertiser. And so you promote their stuff, you read an ad, whatever. That's that.

one degree next to that, you have being an affiliate, which is just like, you know, getting sponsors except you're paying performance. Because what we do when you do an affiliate deal... or a performance-based deal, you're saying, I would like a larger percentage of the upside if I can prove that I can generate it. And so what you're essentially doing is shifting the risk from them to you.

And the more risk you're willing to take on, the greater percentage of the upside. And so winners always work on performance. No one should be able to as accurately estimate how much you can drive. No one does better than you do. Right. You're the seller. So like in M&A terms.

the seller of a business, the person who owns the business you're selling to somebody else, always has an information advantage because they always know more about the business than the person buying. And so you are the seller of attention. So you should always know the value of your attention better than someone else. Now, if you know that your attention is shit,

and doesn't actually convert at all, then maybe you should just do the sponsorship. It's the brand value. It's overall the impression. Now you've got me on board. It's going to change everything.

sponsorships here. You've got kind of affiliates and performance deals here. Then you've got kind of the next path, which is what I did with school, which is you promote. And so I put capital in the deal too. So it wasn't just... You also invested in financial. Yeah, it was a big deal. And so...

We invested capital in the company, and we invested resources, and we invested brand. So I think about them in terms of what are the buckets that create an investment. So there's work, and for me, there's brand. Some people don't have that, but there's work, there's brand, and then there's capital. And so we put off. I think there's a really nice sweet spot there because what you can do is rather than trying to go through all the iterations, I say, hey, let's do a deal.

I think there's a really nice sweet spot there because what you can do is rather than trying to go through all the iterations, I say, hey, let's do a deal. It has to be significant enough for me to make it worth it. using what I would consider a brand bullet on. And let's get carried into every business in the US, not just creators. And then if that's compelling, then you get to just do what you're good at as a creator. This is me talking to creators.

and let the business do what they've already proven and this is the key point that they've already proven they're gonna And so this is where a little bit of business acumen comes into play. This is where understanding what revenue retention is, looking at churn, looking at user acquisition, looking at engagement rates, looking at activation points, whatever.

that you want to look at a business to understand, okay, is this actually, is the product good? Because what you want as a creator, like the perfect nirvana situation is unbelievable product compounding on its own from word of mouth for 12 to 24 months. in a market that's very similar to your audience and that you know that you can 10x in a year. That's where the magic happens for both parties. They have an amazing product that could grow without you.

But with you, it just grows that much faster. And so fundamentally, all you're doing is pulling the future forward by like four years. You're cutting the compounding curve.

And just basically step, stepwise increasing in a straight lineup and then saying, okay, we're just going to pull year four forward. And now we're at a compound starting next month at year four to five rather than year two to three. Right. And that's fundamentally what I was doing with school. And I mean, think about the amount of deals that we look at.

School was the only deal that I've done since that time period. It was because it hit all of those things. Now next on, so that's like third stop on our creator world here. The next is that you can white label. So you can drop ship stuff, which is pretty common that I see. The simplest way of this is you don't manufacture t-shirts. You find a t-shirt manufacturer, you slap your logo on it, and you ship it.

Pretty straightforward. And then the final version, final boss of this is that you create a product from scratch or service from scratch and you market and sell it.

And those are degrees of control that exist on that spectrum. There is a right path for everyone. And you just have to have some level of awareness to know which path is yours. Now, which of these can create the most enterprise value? the further on the right you are. the more enterprise value you have. If you are doing sponsorships or affiliate deals, which is the first two categories that I talked about.

those two can create enterprise value in and of themselves if you consider yourself a media business, which is so funny. I was talking to a Mondo creator, so like 20 million plus subscribers. And it's so funny. He was like, do what we're doing like no one's ever done this before like have a business around like making videos and i was like

So, you know, media has existed for a long time, right? And when I told him, I was like, dude, you should just look at existing media businesses. And it was like this big light bulb. It's like, all we're doing is taking an old business model and just doing it in a new media. like that's all it is right the difference though is if you look at like a great media business of the new age it's like barstool sports right and

Dave Portnoy is sort of now a creator. I would say he is a creator now, but it wasn't started that way. He just saw the arbitrage that existed for all these cheap impressions. Exactly. And he built a network and so that he could sell impressions across a specific. demo to advertisers.

And if that's the business, I just have yet to see. I think YMH, at your mom's house for comedy, I think they have a handful of productions, so they're kind of becoming a media. Zach Justice is trying to do this too. Yeah, I've talked to Zach. It's tough though, especially if you're the primary breadwinner for the media business. I would say it's almost simpler to be like, hey, I know a ton of advertisers. let me sell your ad space. And I think you could far more easily acquire

a big network from that perspective, which is basically what Portnoy did. Interesting. So for your POV, if you've successfully built the media side of your business, like that's a win. But the upside, according to your degrees of control, is very limited. And as you mentioned, I was trying to think of people who I think have built these successful media empires. So there have been many who failed, like BuzzFeed.

That's a great example. Many, many have failed. We're going to reinvent the game. It's like, well, you're just doing newspaper stit. I'll be on a new medium. There are some creators who have succeeded in building. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Daily Mail. And there are some creators who've gone, they've taken steps in this direction where they've almost scaled their content. So one that comes to mind, Linus Tech Tips, is a very good example.

where Linus Tech Tips started with just Linus. And over the time, he's brought in other creators to be on his channel instead of himself. And then you also have creators like, I think MKBHD is a great example too. MKBHD, I still think of as primarily as a media business. He doesn't do that much with product.

And well, he actually tried one, a wallpaper app that got a lot of backlash, which I, you know, if I were MKBHD, I feel like I would be like, yeah, I know. You know what? I'll just stay and do content over here because whenever I swear to go over there, people get mad at me.

Now, it sounds like you're saying, though, from your POV... Also, can we hit on this real quick before we switch? So... I want to say this mostly to the creators of people who have started from organic and built an audience and whatnot. There are two types of anger. So there's angry because you have done something that you said you wouldn't do or that is against your brand or purported values. Right.

Then there is people who think that everything in the world should be free. And I find that YouTube, or really across all platforms, these people exist. And you can, by and large, ignore them. And so I think that when people promote anything, they get backlash because anything that you give me that is not free, fuck you, die. I think on some level, you just got to be like, okay, anything worth doing is going to get Lash back.

there's like show me one ultra famous person because this is all we're talking about creators and influence and audiences who doesn't have haters right and so if you're going to get hate regardless You might as well also accomplish your objectives. So that's just my two cents. betraying the brand that you have. No, I think that's tough.

So like if you have, for example, a naturopathic brand of weight loss, don't push a Zempick. That's probably a bad idea. At the same time, if you said, hey, I've got these supplements that help you do that, or I have this, you know, nutrition program that I'm, you know, you do a retreat with me three times a year. Of course, I'm thinking of Leverk.

because the whole premise was his gains came from his diet, not from other things. 100%. If you've been honest, I think it would be fine. I think, yeah. Um, it would have been interesting for sure. Yeah, fine. Maybe not fine. It would have been interesting. Oh yeah. I, I, you know, go nuts, but I also inject a trend. Um, like people were like so is it the go nuts or is it trying well it's actually about the interaction between the two that's where the magic is right like

um yeah so i that's that's yeah but actually i think he's uh it's it's a worthwhile example to pull that up because so obviously there was a moment or in time where he went super viral and then It peaked, and then Derek, as a callback to earlier, ended up being the one who outed him. He exposed him, I remember. Yeah, he exposed it. Here's the thing.

Liverking still makes content. And I would imagine that he probably still makes good money. And so I would see what happened to Liverking as close to a, quote, brand suicide moment as you can get.

And yet, he keeps going. And so here's the real, real. I don't think you can get canceled. And so a lot of people have this fear of making a mistake that's going to end their career. No mistake ends your career unless you choose to end it. And so you can always get back up and keep going. The only way that you can actually get canceled is if you get prevented from distribution. so if all platforms de-platform you if every platform did that then yeah you are Right? Like, R. Kelly is in jail.

He can't make content. He cannot make content. So he has been effectively canceled. On the flip side, how many times has Chappelle been canceled? I'll put that in quotes here. He's not canceled. He just keeps going. And so in the same light, to further hopefully put at stake through this thing, your assumption that you have killed your career assumes that everyone in the world knows who you are. And the vast majority of the world doesn't even know you.

Nor do they really care. Subtext. And so like, let's say you have a million person audience. Okay. You mess up. Just go get another million. You're not dead. And if anything, you start having learned a lesson and you just keep going. It's interesting because I think the poster childs for this in some ways are like Jake and Logan Paul. Dude, the suicide forest thing? Yeah. Here he is on WWE or whatever they're doing now. I don't follow as tightly as I probably should to be in this world.

He's still around. Yeah. And he's bigger than ever. Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, there's... Jake Paul also has a VC fund. Yeah, well, there you go. There are so many examples of, quote, career-ending moves that didn't actually end the career. What you have to be able to deal with, and this is the real hard part, is that you have to be able to handle hate for a week. Because the news cycle is about... And so you have to be able to just be hated.

And it's very against our human wiring to receive that much hatred and continue onward. Especially online, it's amplified. It's impossible to fathom.

A million people telling you that you suck. Have you gone through that yourself? I mean, I've had my moments of people hating on stuff that I put out. Usually it's just stuff that I put out that just triggers people in general. And I would say that part of it is intended to do that. Like I have relatively extreme views on life and death and things like that.

I make those because those are the views that helped me free myself and made life a lot more palatable for me. I've always been like, and if it helps you, use it. And if it doesn't, don't worry about it. Use whatever you're doing. This is not me trying to proselytize. This is me sharing what's worked for me. But of course, people see it and they're triggered because...

this conflicts with their worldview. My content is a documentary, not a sermon. When you think about the different axes of control, the different models you've said, what's interesting is

I've seen a lot of creators stay on the media emperor side. I've seen a good number of creators make money via their own products. Like, obviously, there's festivals. The middle area, what you've done, it's actually very, very rare. That's the advantage of, if you understand the business game, you can do nasty things. I can't wait for this to get the call back. But one of my very first podcasts I ever did was on Ice Coffee Hour.

with Graham Stephan. And on the show, I said, If I had your size audience, I'd already be my. I'm excited for when we cross that because I think it'll be pretty close. You have the audience now, Alex. As you say, put up or shut up. Yeah. I mean, we've grown a ton. I'll just leave it at that. I'll say this for anybody who's listening to this. So the problem with me claiming something, I would like to have a third party substantiate.

And so I could say, well, if you know what our revenue is, right, and you put any kind of EBITDA on that, that would be reasonable, especially in a business that has low-cap. you would probably imagine that it would be decent. And you put any kind of multiple on that, it would be a pretty large number. And so we have things that are going for us and we've had conversations with companies that said we would value in this range. But those are things that I... Wouldn't.

If I claim it, I want to be rock solid. Absolutely. Right. And so that's why I have it. But that being said, obviously we've grown a lot in that period of time.

I'm excited for whenever that callback comes because he still has more YouTube people. So I'm using that as mine. You're saying we haven't quite reached your audience yet. Yeah, on YouTube. Yeah, I'm still behind his audience on YouTube. It's actually another good point that you said multiple...

right the multiple that you would get on what you've built is going to be higher than say a pure youtuber yeah here's your question when you look at say like what jimmy mr beast has built yeah oh perfect i was gonna come back to that yes okay is that a business you'd want to invest in yourself

So I think I'd probably take Chamath's angle, which is like, you're just, you're basically betting on Jimmy. And I think, yeah, I would take that bet. Right. Because I think Jimmy will just die or he'll win. Yep. And that's kind of. He's obsessed. And you just want to find people like that. When your distribution base is the world.

uh it's hard to lose yeah i'll just i'll leave it at that but what you brought up though like prime for example yeah so prime is actually the identical to a school deal Because he didn't build the product. It was Congo Brands. It's another company that previously worked with other creators to do other drinks as well. Yeah, and so they promoted it.

right right but they put i don't know if they put cash in i don't think that but i'm assuming they put some money in because they have the capital why not to get more leverage on on the ultimate dealer or joint venture was logan going to learn the drink business and get that and get brick and mortar just like maybe but it's also the question is how much is your time And I don't mean like... Dollars per hour anything like that

You absolutely can do it. And when I say time, it's like, how much is the next five years worth to you? Because if you can pull five years of knowledge forward and then grow for five years rather than learn for five years, then begin growing. Because if you have an audience of their size, your constraint is going to be delivery. It's not distributed.

Yeah, it's not media distribution. It's going to be product distribution. Yeah, it's going to be product distribution. And so to build out the kind of infrastructure and knowledge base, to satisfy the demand internationally, not just nationally, internet, because they're in the UK too. You need deep expertise and large existing infrastructure. And so Conga already had that. And so it made sense. And so I would probably lean more towards that type of model.

I'm curious. Like, there's me, there's Sirhan. Jimmy, I think, with Feastables is the only person who's building things truly from scratch. Yeah, he's hired his own team and everything. Yeah, and I don't know if you were to ask Jimmy again today if he could go back in time, if he would have...

Yeah. Just if he would have done it the same way. He's talking about how stressful it is. Yeah. And we can already say he launched Lunchly, right? And what did he do with Lunchly that he didn't do with Feastables? He didn't. And so I think part of that is there's a desire that I totally understand as a creator slash entrepreneur to control everything. If you look at the people who are the wealthiest in the world,

Almost none of them own 100% of the companies that they have made their wall phone. So you look at Jensen Huang from NVIDIA owns 4%. You look at Elon, he owns whatever it is, whatever small percentage of Tesla that he owns. With SpaceX, he's not the majority. I don't know. He might have voting rights, whatever. That's a different question. SpaceX owns 9% of Amazon. I go down the list.

Warren Buffett, I think, doesn't own more than 40% of Berkshire Hathaway, and we could keep going. And so the idea is to build something really, really big, in my opinion, need multiple lifetimes. And you can either live all of those lifetimes in sequence. chronologically yourself and then take a lifetime to finally learn how to do everything or you can get three people

There's lifetimes, you all start together, you divvy up the pie, and then you can build something way bigger, way faster. The longer I've been doing business, the more I value time and speed. Because also we have the assumption that these things will not change in 10 years. So maybe it does take you 10 years to learn everything. Is the moment still there? So that makes me think of two things. The first thing is...

for yourself what are the elements of business that you're most willing like sure i can learn this but do i want to spend time yes so i approach all new things with the same perspective which you can you probably share with me which is kind of the consultant's perspective and so i started as a management consultant

which we share as background. And the way that I was taught is if you want to rapidly learn something in a space, and to give context on this, imagine this back in time. I'm 22 years old. I go through my security clearance. No beard, by the way. Yeah, no beard.

I have, uh, so I have to get a top six security clearance. So I get, I passed that. Thank God, you know, I'm sweating bullets. Like, Oh, what did I do in my frat days? You know, like I'm thinking this is like a huge deal to national security. So I passed that. And then I can't say which armed forces, but we go and do work for the Defense Department. And I was focused on space cyber intelligence. And, you know, some of the projects that I can say this, that we worked on was like, basically.

mix of assets to kill the most bad guys the most efficiently right and the thing is is that there's overlap between different armed forces for a similar style of let's just say killing people or gathering intel on uh you know Bad guys. How do you at 20 years, 22 years old, go and say something that's impressive and worth $4 million for a project that you're on in four months? So it's like, you start now, four months from now, you have to give a presentation to...

two two stars and a four star general who have been doing this for their entire careers and then somehow managed to say something intelligent. So the way that they approach that problem is so the person who puts the records out for the project. We say, who are the smartest people you know around this problem? And they give you five people.

So you go to those five people and you interview all of them. And then you say, who do you know, five people, who are the smartest people around us? And you do that over and over and over again until eventually the same names keep popping up. And then you're like, I already talked to John, I already talked to Steve.

And basically you have, you kind of like map the neural network of expertise and then you consolidate those notes into those buckets. So you like recode them and then you distill them down and then you make a pretty slideshow. That's like the very TLDR. That's the job of consulting. That is what consulting is. Yeah. And if you were the 22-year-old, you were the one doing all of the notes and all of the consulting. You're doing the calls. You're consolidating. Yep, 100%. And so...

So I learned a very valuable skill set there. And so I've approached every new endeavor using the same thing to answer the question. What are the things that I would say I will learn more about this or I won't? I think it depends on my first.

my first pass yeah so if i get into because there's some industries where i look at it i'm like this isn't that hard like some businesses i'm like this isn't as bad as i thought it was going to be otherwise i'm like this is way worse than i thought it was going to be and it's also like what problems come up

and how equipped am I to solve them? So I'll use insurance, for example. I think insurance is really interesting, largely because one of the biggest problems with insurance is cost of acquisition.

it's like it's a demand constrained business insurance is not hard to get capital for like there's tons of insurance companies all that to say it's there but that was like oh that's more interesting and so when i have that like of the not now or later like i would put insurance in one of those buckets as something that like is also regulated but uh i'd say lesser than bank Um... And there's pretty amazing tax advantages that exist within insurance. You're picking these products that have

To your earlier point, extremely high retention. People need it. It's just people don't historically like it and acquisition is really hard. And you're coming in and saying, well, I could help with the acquisition side. Oh, but people still don't really like it. And there's like limitations in my ability to prove that right now because some of these things are regulated. Where the magic will happen is...

I'll find some nugget in there and this will just take time that I'm like, we can win on this. Yeah. Three ways to build a business. You can just look at what's already working and just do that for yourself. And I think that's totally fine. I think it's a wildly underestimated pattern. uh like you know what business do i start i'm like look around pick one like you can just start and then you'll learn and then you'll you know learn from there the second is you have

a strong advantage in one of either that you can acquire customers cheaper or you can deliver in a better way. You've got some advantage in one of those two. And if you have an advantage in one of those two, you don't really need... much of an advantage in the

The third is that you need such a strong advantage that you can overcome a deficit in the other. So like if you have what I would consider a true product-driven business, you could not be really ever good at acquiring customers. And by solving product... so well it becomes viral and then you do solve uh your acquisition problem vis-a-vis a better product now on the flip side it's like

Can you do the same thing by just having unbelievable distribution? I don't think the answer is yes. You mentioned that as something like 20, 30% of the businesses coming to you, they make content in some way. Do you think that those businesses...

Because a lot of people talk about creator, creator economy. Are they better than those that don't grow and have Khan as part of their workflow? Really interesting question. I think it's a double-edged sword. So what makes them great also makes them risky. So they will typically have very low cost to acquire customers because it's organic. And so it's just some, yeah, it's some star or whatever. I'll call it a star, right? It's good on camera, good in whatever format they advertise in.

to their car customers cheaply. The other pro is that typically if someone starts with an organic audience, they really care about product because being a creator like your media is a product in a way and so they have the right perspective on like this has to be really good or i'm going to lose my reputation because the whole

An organic brand is built on reputation. And so I think they're more obsessive about products. I think that's a huge plus. The downsides for the business, obviously, is that they have massive chemo and risk. Now I think where you get really smart about it is... If you can gain enough influence where you can develop an affiliate network of businesses, like somebody who's done a list really well, is Derek from... uh, the fitness guy.

He has, I think, an affiliate base of 4,000 or 5,000 affiliates that promote his business product. and so he's become such an authority that people are willing to say well I don't want to remake what he's made I'll just promote his stuff and I think he has a good you know a good program there and so he is He's paying down his key man risk by getting larger and larger percentage of the business. And so I think that the way to really scale an organic Creator business.

is you launch it with a personal brand. And then over time, you backfill with other faces that you have to approve. And that's the key part. You have to approve that are on brand with your values and your message and are authentic to the product that you have and are attracting the audiences that you want to go after.

And then they, over time, become bigger than you. And you're kind of like Homer Simpson into the... into the bushes yeah exactly yeah exactly and you recede into the bushes until eventually people

associate you with the brand, but the brand outgrows you. It's fascinating because, well, two questions immediately come to mind. The first is, on Key Manners, this is what you and Layla have. Are you thinking about marrying a roster folks just fully took for the faces of even the con side of your business? So... Two answers. First, we're not planning on selling acquisition on a time price, and that's useful.

And so I see Elon as keyman to SpaceX and Tesla. And so if you have the desired exit of business, then keyman risk becomes a problem. If you want to go public or you want to hold... it's really who cares And so it's kind of a who cares issue. That being said, the second answer is yes, because I do like having fewer single points of failure in general.

So despite the fact that I don't think we necessarily would need it, I still like to build businesses that way in general. And we have plans for what we're going to do over the next probably 24 months and beyond to build out ACQ's brand. Makes sense. Yeah, the second question I had related to that was... When I look at creators in the space who've successfully executed on this,

It's actually very minimal. I can tell you one who I look at. Dave Ramsey. He's brought in George. He's brought in other people under him. He's got Rachel, who's his daughter. He's got Rachel. He's got John. He's got nine, I think, channels, for example, just on YouTube that are associated with the primary. And what's interesting is that they basically run the same playbook.

It's daily calling show and clips and full episodes basically are, are the channel. And so they clip each episode into like four or five, 10 minute clip. and they put each of those out, so that gives them tons of good mid-length clips.

they get the one full episodes, and then short clips get taken and become shorts. I studied Ramsey a lot. One, because I like Dave. But secondly, because... the amount of creators that get quote creator burnout is... really high yeah um or we're talking like shelby church right she's kind of shifted

to, I would say, a sustainable content model, right? But it doesn't really acquire new viewership anymore. Like, you only care about a vlog if you care about the person. Yeah, it's your maintaining or some person. Parosia on YouTube, now they shift to a podcast.

Right. Yeah. And it's because it's a quote easier form of doesn't really grow the audience. It just kind of like maintains the audience that you have. And again, to be clear, nothing wrong with that. Totally. But I look at somebody like Dave and I think he's been making content for 40 years. like there's something to be learned from that and I think the nature of why his content has been so interesting is because

You have, he has two types of variety, or three really, and that I think have to be present. So what are the types of shows that have, and I already say shows, that have existed for a long time? You look in the daily. You look at the nightly host shows. Those can go for 20 years. Evergreen. What makes that unique? In my opinion, you have three variables. You have the people who are on the show.

you have the subject matter and you have, actually, it's just that. Two. Yeah. I was thinking because you also have the interviewer. Right. Format as well. Yeah. So I'll, I'll, I'll still say the third, which is the interviewer, comma, errs. So like. There are some shows where they will rotate. Ten people through three seats.

who are doing the interviewing of other people about dynamic topics. And so you need some level of novelty, I think, to consistently, one, engage your existing audience, but also to bring in new people. And I think that a lot of creator...

content on a long enough time horizon becomes the news. Like they say all the things they wanted to say about personal finance or how to build a house or like, and then at some point they're like, And then they're like, the news and i don't necessarily think that's a bad thing it just like i just it's just a pattern that i've seen over and over again because if you have single person They only have topic as their variety. And so once you've exhausted many of the, I would call it.

standard direct-to-camera topics, then the novelty comes from news, which is literally novelty, right? What is new? And so that's where they allow the environment to create their content or other topics. Going back to Ramsey, he has guests on.

He has the call-ins which create endless variety and so those are kind of like the two formats and he doesn't have to prepare really ahead of time and so he is for if he does three hours of content a day he's generating three hours of content whereas i would say many creators will spend 20 hours on generating one hour of content. And so he has pretty decent leverage on his time in terms of

output per unit of time spent on content itself. And if you want to grow a business around it, you can't just do content because then you have, like, when do you grow the business? It's a really interesting point because You mentioned that a lot of creators start with one thing and then they eventually burn out and then they build a scalability. Like Graham Stephan's a good mutual friend of ours.

And Graham has openly talked about how he is getting really tired on his main channel. He said that like three years ago. Yeah, I've noticed. Graham every year talks about and even when I met him he was doing like three videos a week and you just run out of topics and to a point you just become a news reactor and that's not something he enjoys as much as doing and in a way he's found a lot of success now with his podcast channel For a while, he spent up a coffee business.

And he's also talked about how the coffee business didn't work. And so I think it's interesting because on the one hand, everybody's like, well, acquisition is one of the most important things to a business. If you're a creator, you're going to succeed. On the other hand, hey, Graham did the coffee business, didn't necessarily work. Emma Chamberlain's talked about how Chamberlain Coffee Line also doesn't apparently make money.

There are many creators who go to the business path, and it seems like, well, maybe that was not the right play. So two really interesting things about this. Well, Graham specifically, and then also in general. So I think we need to be very careful about what... audience we want to gather. And so Graham's audience has been predominantly people who don't want to spend money. Frugal. And so he gathered everybody together who don't want to spend money.

And then was like, hey, spend some money. And so I think in some ways it's hard. It's almost harder for him to sell something than almost anybody else. Right. uh because of the nature of his brand specifically that's why i think like for him it's like doing media stuff in some ways is probably an easier he can sell to advertisers and they can they can have the the good luck you know but i think for him like something that would have been on brand would have been like honey

Right before the scandal. Pre-scandal honey I think would have been very on brand for him to offer. And he could have made a lot of money on that. all discount related things or discount related financial services probably would have been good angles for him. So that's thing one. Thing two is, so I guess that, sorry, I was getting into thing two, which is picking the right problem.

So you have right audience, right product. And so I think that having the saving money audience, you can make money from it, but getting them to buy something that would be considered frivolous, which is just like coffee, now you can try and position it as like, okay, it's not Starbucks, fine. But now you're literally dealing with a commodity. Like coffee beans are traded as a commodity. like very hard to be, to have.

alpha from a brand perspective when the whole brand has been built on don't buy like this stuff comes off the same factory floor as this stuff and they just put a markup on it right and so from a product perspective i actually think creators are horrendously bad at picking like the amount of conversations i've had with creators who are like hey i'm thinking about launching an act And I'm like, what?

So on one hand, these are real conversations I've had where they're like, yeah, I read Peter Thiel's Zero to One, and I think I have to create a totally new category. Yeah, monopolize it. Yeah, and I'm like, dude, your monopoly is the attention.

you can sell a commodity. And as long as it's on brand with you, you'll probably be able to do really well. The follow-up question is, will you do as well as you could have otherwise done if you picked a better product? Which then goes into circling all the way back to acquisition.com in terms of what we do. is we, I only really solve for revenue retention. It's like really the only thing I care about because in a long enough time horizon, anything that retains customers becomes huge.

If you know how to advertise at all, which if you're greater, you do. And if you can keep the customers, then on a long enough time horizon, you build a massive company. Right. It surprised me you said retention instead of growth. level 1 keep customers level 2 grow those customers too and get them to bring more but yeah

And so from a product perspective though, I don't think enough of them are thinking about reoccurring and recurring revenue. And my two cents for anybody who's a creator who's listening to this, do not try and solve churn. try and find products that people already don't turn out of and then make it your own. I spent a huge amount of my career banging my head against the wall, trying to figure out how to make something that people inherently leave.

like a gym membership, something that's sticky. And I learned a ton. And so there's lots of what I would consider like blocking and tackling tactics that I have learned that will improve churn. but to conquer turn, like, how many of you have turned out of your internet lately? How many of you have turned out of your cell phone bill? How many of you have turned out of your insurance? Make account for that matter. Yeah, exactly. Of course.

And so you think about these products. And so I would rather find products that people already don't leave and have no affinity for, and then try and just shift them over. And they're like, wait, how can, well, aren't they technically turning out of them? Yeah, but I'm being laser targeted and how, like.

Yes, that's the point. That's the advantage that you have as a creator is that you can bring those people over from what is otherwise a commoditized product that they don't care much about but still pay for.

rather than trying getting people to care about your product in order to buy it. You might remember 2021, everyone is really excited about the creator economy. Everyone knows it's going to be the biggest thing in the world. One, because COVID, everyone's at home to watching online videos. And two, because TikTok, there's more forums going on the scene. Everyone's getting millions of followers. And then 2022, 2023, there actually was a bot.

where a lot of people were like, oh, creator economy is not going to be a thing. And it's because people weren't able to monetize. They have all these short form followers. They didn't really see what you do. I have really strong views on this. Oh. Yeah. What are you thinking? So I think it's because the people who are allocating money didn't understand media at this level. I would wager that you and I probably understand the creator world and media.

better than most. And I think that, fortunately, unfortunately, I think short form content does not build tremendous influence. Right. I think it brings awareness. But if we think about influence in terms of what percentage of likelihood can we get the audience of this person to purchase something, you just need...

Okay, so... Four elements for influence. So you've got likeness. So does this person look the way that I look? So because of that, I will trust them more and be more likely to follow their directions. The second is credibility, which is say-do correspondence, which is basically, does this person have evidence or proof that what they say is true? Third is you have power. and power comes from

Someone doing some directive that you have stated and then yielding a positive consequence from it. And so I'll give an example of this. So Schuberman made a short about if you have hiccups, how to stop having hiccups.

And I remember watching it and being like, well, I don't have hiccups right now, but I'll try to remember this when I have hiccups. And about a month later, I had the hiccups. You followed it. There's power. Yeah. And then I did the thing and the hiccup stopped. And so in that moment. Huberman gained influence over me. I'm more likely to follow a directive in the future. And so status is the fourth thing that gives you influence, which is relative control over reinforcers, meaning.

if I am a bartender. And I control a scarce resource, which is alcohol. I have status in this setting because I control the things that reinforce. Does it matter how rich or powerful you are? I'm the bartender. In this setting, I control what's scarce, right? And so if you're a billionaire...

you control money. And so you gain status just from that. Presidents and politicians also have status because they control resources of the government, right? But they still control resources. And so women have status because they control a scarce resource for men. It should be real. And so they can influence behavior. And so all of those things increase the likelihood that you get adherence or compliance from a request.

And so if you have all four, then you're incredibly influential. Right. And big picture, our goal... creators is to gain actual influence so that we can influence uh the behavior of a large group of people right and the way to do that most powerfully is to give them something, some sort of directive that they follow and their life gets better. And then they're more likely to adhere to a following request. That makes sense. So if that's the case,

it's very difficult for you to do that well with very short content. And so to put this in context, let's say that somebody has consumed 20 YouTube videos. And let's say that those videos on average were 30 minutes. All right. So that's 10 hours of content that they've consumed from me. Okay. All right. Let's do the math here. If the average short that I put out is, let's say, 20 seconds. Okay.

So if we have 20 seconds for a short, that means it's three shorts per minute. So 10 hours times 60, we have 600 minutes is what my longs were. And we'd have to triple that. So they would have to consume 1,800 shorts of mine. Right. And so I think that what's happened is that People have wildly over leveraged followership and views.

for influence what's interesting is that like small businesses i remember michael showed me this actually he saw this little cue card he took a picture of it from like a car detailing business or something and they said for 400,000 views on TikTok. or 10,000 views on YouTube.

$500. So any creator who wants to make something about their card detailing organically, they'll pay them $500 if they get 10,000 views on YouTube or 400,000 views on TikTok. So they had already basically appropriated that as 40x. is the equivalent.

uh, amount of influence. And if it were me, I still would probably rather have the 10,000 views on YouTube. If we're looking at this, um, what's her name? The dancing girl, Charlie, uh, right. So I think she's had a couple of things that didn't work as well that like. And again, it's if I make a brand built around slapping strangers in public, right, just as a complete extreme. and then I launch a credit card. Does that really carry? There's no say to correspondence.

I have no proof, right? So I have no proof that... She actually did partner with a credit card company, by the way. Right, and I think she had a popcorn. And to be clear, there's no shade here. That's not my point here. My point is to help creators monetize. And so I see the point of short form as one thing.

which is to drive them to long form. Or if you can, obviously deliver some sort of value like I got from Huberman in that short clip. But the thing is, is that the likelihood that that occurs is really, really low. I have a pretty decent memory and I remembered a short from a month earlier and then actually did it. and got a result. Super unlikely. Now, if you listen to Huberman on a daily basis, for example, he probably gives any directive. Over his every podcast.

And all you have to do if you're a long-form listener is listen to one of them. over a month and your life gets better and he gains influence. And so when he then makes a product recommendation, I'll bet you that the Huberman collabs have probably crushed. I thought it great. yeah and he's got broke he's got the sunglasses thing um i think he's promoting david bars uh which is actually high protein yeah so like

And those collabs, I think, have probably gone pretty well. And Rogan also, to the same degree. When he makes recommendations, a huge amount of people, including presidential recommendations, a huge amount of people follow. And this is where it gets really fucking interesting.

So, again, it's all of those elements. So if you have a, let's say somebody who's a long-form host, doesn't talk about politics at all, shows no knowledge of the stuff, has a big audience, brings somebody on, their endorsement... probably matters little. If their audience pays attention to a political candidate, then that basically just functions as an ad and the political candidate is doing the influencing on their behalf.

But for their endorsement to matter, not just their distribution, they have to have demonstrated some credibility around the topic so that people say, this guy is informed. The value to me other than you've reached a million people. Right.

Joe has done a ton of political stuff and like it, don't like it, whatever. He's demonstrated that he's at least spent a lot of time trying to research the topics with the intention of just trying to find truth from an independent perspective. I'm not getting into like the weeds on either side here, but just that, that has been the intention. And so he is tremendous influence because most people think, at least I think most consumers think this way.

I don't want to do all that work. I'll just trust him. See, what's fascinating, you describe the primary function as short form to drive to long form, because you go to a broader point, you're saying that people have followers. but they didn't have influence. Because influence comes from the four things you just described. Likeness, credibility, power, status. Initially, what was going through my mind was, yes, 2020, 2023 saw a bust because a lot of investors confused influence with followers.

Because there were more followers, Bronte, because there were more views, but nothing else. The initial premise I was operating with was in 2025, which now I'm rethinking was, oh, but now people have figured out how to use short form to upsell to products and services, whether on school or... or these other 15 different monetization methods where these short form units are just becoming really marketing. I mean, it is the best one. Well said.

The premise for me was, oh, now short form, it's actually just marketing. Like they're just like commercials. And so the monetization is coming back. The short form is not really successful in growing your influence. but it is successful just from a distribution POV. Think of it as like awareness ads. Yeah.

And so what happens is the objective, in my opinion, so like the ones you just like school, for example, if you're a short form person, it's like, how can I just get them to take the tiniest amount of action, which is to go into. a community where I can get way more interactions with them on a much faster feedback loop so that I can gain the other three or four more, like, right, harder, right?

But what's interesting is like the people who I think we're doing really well in monetization right now for TikTok are doing TikTok shop plus live. And what's a lie? I think there were some creators that were still wildly undervalued and many that were wildly overvalued. And...

This is the, uh, you know, the classic story of like, I had two people that I paid a hundred thousand, you know, I had a hundred thousand followers on Instagram and I had both of them do a shout out for my thing. And one guy drove 10,000 customers and one guy drove zero.

assuming it's not bots, but there's definitely legitimate creator accounts that have 100,000 followers that have zero influence. Do you think more businesses should be trying to follow content? creator-led models. We've talked a lot about, hey, there's five different ways these businesses make money. Here are some of the challenges they have. Should the other 60% of entrepreneurs come to you be thinking about, oh, I should be incorporating content more into what I do? I have...

Super strong reservations with the word should in general. I would say it really just depends on what the constraint of the business is. And so like, let's say you have an outbound channel that you have cold callers and cold emailers that, you know, generate B2B customers for you. Do you need to start making content? Probably not. And given the resources required, is there something else in the business that would generate more enterprise value? Yeah. If so, then you should do that.

Big picture, more attention in general tends to grow businesses provided they are not supply constrained. But that's a big asterisk. Many businesses are supply constrained. There's a lot of plumbers who... The phone's ringing on the hook and they're like, I just need more plumbers, dude. Yeah, of course. I don't have a problem getting people. If you have a cleaning business, the problem is not getting people to want cleaning. The problem is finding cleaner.

right so like it depends on what the problem the business is now if that were the issue do you make content around like what it's like to be a cleaner so that you attract cleaners people who want to clean it's like hey you already clean your house all the time want to do it for money And we have better working conditions, blah, blah, blah. Like fundamentally, I guess reframing the question as should the other 60% of businesses add another advertising channel?

No, unless it's the return of the best.

When you think about what you're investing for acquisition.com or now for ACQ Ventures, it sounds like traditionally it started from, let me bring you better business processes. With school, it actually shifted a bit to, I can just bring you tremendous distribution via my own content.

What types of companies are you leaning more toward investing once they help with the processes or ones where you think the content distribution actually is what matters? So I'll say it's both. Right. And I still use those three kind of legs of the stool. So I got money. we've got timer work, and then we've got brand reputation, distribution, etc.

I prefer to do as many as I can of the first two. Because in a lot of ways, brand is so much more limited. Not limited in its power, but limited in how many. And maybe this can be a limiting belief for me, but I don't think it is. So a brand is built on associations and pairings. And if you pair yourself with too many things, the brand starts to lose its...

potency because you have associated with too many disparate things. Now, if you made many associations with things in the similar buckets, I think you could get more bullets. more shots on goal, if you will. But no, I try to basically do the more scalable things, which money is actually pretty scalable. We've developed a pretty exceptional team at the holding company for acquisition.com.

because I basically take, I marry a lot of old school and new school. So we have a lot of young... called five and 10 year McKinsey, you know, um, Bain consultants that will pull who are like, I hate feeling like a cog in a machine and just doing bubble hours. but are otherwise incredibly hardworking, incredibly bright. and also see the problem with a lot of antiquated businesses and want to work with more.

new more cutting-edge stuff and also really like and a lot of them came from you know my content my world um and want to marry i would say big business strategy with small business tactics and then kind of like bridge those two gaps together. And that's a lot of what we do at ACQ anyways.

And so I think they really enjoy it because they learn a ton from the frameworks that we have for growing companies. It adds nuance and texture to their existing knowledge set from what they learned at the kind of like big consulting firms. And just to put context to this, If you're looking at supply chain... for walmart brazil right or something you know walmart latam uh because you need to do some you know analysis for that super heady uh really complex lots of moving parts

and not useful to a small business. Like, really valuable to a big business, which is why they pay the money for it. Not useful at all to a small business. But the thinking process, and the reason I like taking people from that world, one, is because I came from it, but also because I think at the end of the day, consultants are a lot like engineers in that you just have to solve problems. And being able to have a really good problem thinking mind is, I think, what makes it good.

a good consultant in general. And so that feeds really well into the advisory practice. Would you invest in content creators? I would if I, like, okay. Let me clarify and qualify the answer. So are you saying... invest in them like if i could buy a stock in a person or like if hey i want to start i want to start this umbrella company i've seen initially the second i probably wouldn't for a de novo idea um for a couple reasons one is like i don't i don't really like Seed.

stuff like idea stuff right also because creators are typically like big idea people that's not the constraint the constraint for them is execution um and business acumen and for a deal structure like that, like in a traditional structure, I probably wouldn't have majority controller ownership. And so that would be really high risk, I think. And so I probably wouldn't like that deal. If it was a deal that was kind of the opposite, we're like,

maybe they owned like 20% and we owned 80 and we fronted the capital and we like put all the stuff together. Sometimes you're incubating them. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. But even then it's like, I also have to look at supply demand of like my own deal flow. Right. And to do that, it would have to prove that that.

deal structure, provides more alpha than the existing thing, which I would have a hard time believing. What about a later stage creator company like the primes of... yeah so like a logan paul or like whatever jake paul or something who's not him but somebody else right it would be tough and the main reason is investing in someone like that isn't really investing it's

a joint venture and then it's really like so I'm starting another business and that's really what it would be and so it would have to be a business that I felt The existing resources and assets that we had, we already had a huge percentage of the core competencies required.

not just in knowledge but like in manpower yeah to do it makes sense because for you you're either obviously you're bringing capital money right but you're also either bringing your image and likeness which is distribution right or you're bringing the operational expertise right you're working with these businesses that are less savvy on the distribution side clearly something of value is it you're working with these creators well you have

distributions you don't necessarily need theirs and they don't have the operations side which means you have to spend tons of time building tons like they don't have any right and so we'd have to build we'd have to build a company And so that's where I see that as like, like translating the ultimate question to like, would you build a company for a creator? If that's what it, if that's what I translated into, then the answer is. Probably not, right?

just given how much it would take. When I was chatting with Michael earlier today, he did say you've been shifting more to investing. ACQ Ventures is all capital. Yeah, ACQ Ventures. And from my understanding, that's much earlier stage. What prompted that, actually? Honestly, just we had so much to offer for it.

So a lot of people were coming in and saying, hey, I would say it is largely tech. Because it's venture, you need to have really, really potential big asset outcomes. Yeah, just the economics lend themselves to tech. But we had a lot of... people were coming towards us. And I would say like a couple of buckets. So bucket one is somebody who's already raised some round, consumes all my stuff. It helped them grow. And they're like, I would just rather have you on our cap table than somebody else.

And that's like a perfect scenario, right? Like they already, they, they like the stuff they're using. They kind of like subscribe to our ideology. We can provide capital to help them grow because we believe in the thesis. So like, that's great.

And the thing is that the existing model that we had prior to that required us to have a significantly larger equity position to justify the return. But because some of these tech companies can have... saving larger exits, and because they don't require more work, we can take smaller slugs and do... And just do money only, essentially. So that was kind of bucket one. Bucket two is people who don't have a cap table at all. There may be bootstraps.

but they still want to take on some clear opportunity that we can help fund. And those also, as long as the deal structure makes sense, those can make a lot of sense. The nice thing with that is that they require... almost no working expertise.

And so it's really just like these entrepreneurs are like, I'm not trying to exit. I'm not trying to have a growth partner. I need capital and I prefer your capital to somebody else's. And we basically had so much of that. They were like, we should probably just spin this out. And the check sizes are not that big. And so I don't even really need to raise a fund to do it. Like I can just do it on my own. Yeah, exactly. So that's worked out really well. We've already done like...

I want to say like six or eight deals. Oh, wow. Yeah. I know just in the last like two months. So like it's, it's heating up really pretty quickly, which is great. Or I'll just lose my ass and we'll find out. I've deployed a lot of money. Congratulations. It's funny because in the investing world, for those who don't know this,

In a fund structure, you basically are incentivized to deploy capital. Yeah. To put out money. Yeah. So it's kind of interesting because like the traditional like clapping of hands. That happens when it's all your money. It's actually like, well, I took a lot of swings. We'll see. You don't really have LPs. You're LPs yourself. That's why. So cool. I've spent all my money. Amazing.

Yeah, I mean, fundamentally, we operate 100% like a private equity group and obviously the fund, the ACQ Ventures operates like a VC. Right. Like we have basically a general partner who just basically runs that.

uh, came from the Y Combinator world, like has really good deal flow on his own. Yeah. He sources a bunch of deals on his own outside of our network too, which I, you'll probably notice this is a common theme. It's like, I want stuff that already works and that I can put gasoline on rather than. it can only work because of me. School is an exceptional product and was compounding month over month with zero advertising on its own. Then we added ga-

If it only, if it requires me in order to work, then it requires me to work until I die. That's not fun. And so just as like a side note for the creators, like everything that I, again, this keeps coming back to this point, but like I solve for revenue retention.

Because if you go on vacation and the company dies, you just bought yourself a higher leverage income, but you did not buy yourself a business. Right. And it's not an asset. It's literally only valuable to you and not valuable to everyone else.

And the valuable to everyone else part is where you get significant outsized returns in terms of wealth creation. When you started to make content, Before, in your previous businesses, you hadn't really gone hard on content market. And so it was the motivation because you saw this as good lead generation for acquisition.com or was it more, Hey, it's time for me to share what I've learned. I would say one, there was multiple motivations and I was actually pretty.

uh reluctant to do this and i i don't even know if i will do it forever i think some people are like i'm gonna do this like i don't know if i'll do it forever i came in with a very clear purpose of why i was going to do this so i'll tell you that the stories that decided got me to decide to do it and then Why? So in very short order, The Rock had Taramana for multiple billions. Huda, Beauty did a minority deal, you know, valuing the company over $600 million.

Conor McGregor, same thing. Ironically, $600 million for Proper 12, his whiskey company.

So those are like some celebrity examples. Then I had, I remember hearing this podcast of this guy named, he did Nomad Capitalist. He's like a YouTuber and he talks about expatriating and like how to have tax savings and things like that i had seen his channel and i listened to a podcast and he said i get 3 000 applications a month and i went to go look at the application and it was like it was an application it was like

30 something questions and they weren't like multiple choice. They were like, very in-depth questions for financials and you had to upload documents and there was a lot of stuff involved. And I thought to myself, if I had 3,000 applications a month for any business that was high-end B2B, my God, I would just print money. And so I thought about that and I was like, okay, so these are like, I'm getting warmer and warmer to this idea.

And then Kylie Jenner gets on the cover of Forbes as a billionaire at age 20, which they ended up disproving later, but it doesn't matter. I think she is a billionaire now. Uh, but she was 20. I was 27. I thought I was hot shit. She's seven years younger and she's a chick and she's richer. And I was like, I suck. I'm a big believer in like, if somebody is making more money than you, there's something you can learn from them in the game of business. Totally.

And it might just be like, you need to be locked here. But like, sometimes it's like, you need to be the right place at the right time. So it's like, okay, well, what do I do about that? It's like, okay, well, I tried to increase my surface area of lock. Then I decided I was going to do it. And so... when acquisition.com for sure was what I was going to do. Yeah.

The brand part wasn't something I was for sure going to do. But when I thought, okay, how can I decrease the likelihood of failure as much as possible? Like one of the tenants would be like, well, if you had an investment firm and you had unlimited deal flow of people who only wanted to do business with you, it would make it very hard to fail. And so I wouldn't have to be the best negotiator. I wouldn't have to be the best picker of companies. I could just have unlimited shots on goal.

And so I was like, okay, so if I were to solve for that, what would I do? I was like, well, if I could build the biggest business brand, then that would basically shrink into irrelevance or make

Sorry, shrink all of my problems or make them irrelevant by consequence. That was fundamentally why I decided to do it. You mentioned in the beginning you weren't even sure you wanted to do it. Do you enjoy having over a million followers now in that piece of stuff? Yeah. There are pros and there are cons. And right now there are more pros than cons. And if there's a day where I feel like there are more cons than pros, I will stop. I think there are some people who really love attention.

love, fame, and things like that, I don't think I am that person. And I feel like I have evidence to support that because I didn't do it for a long time when I think I had the opportunity to. Right now, My content feeds thousands of families. First from obviously what we do at acquisition.com, the holding company, but then also all of the, you know, obviously school, like there's, there's, you know, from a distributed perspective.

If I were to quit in the future, I would try to make sure that I had backfilled my responsibility to those families to make sure that that vacuum didn't, that it was filled. The pros of this are you have recruiting talent becomes... infinitely easier. The best people in the world at whatever they do. which is such an underrated lever. I can't overstate this. Who is lever number one? Number two is you have... The obvious thing is that you have lots of deal flow.

or customer flow, depending on whatever you sell. Those are really the big pros. You have some ancillary pros, like if I go to a gym and drop in, they usually know who I am and they'll give me some nicer treatment. And if I go to a restaurant, they probably know who I am and they'll be nice about it. Those aren't super right. Some people like that. The downsides are that what you sell is privacy. And so that's... that you

is privacy is the price. And so, and one of the really tough parts and why I spent so much time thinking about this was that it's kind of a, it's a one-way door. It's, uh, you can't undo