¶ A house flipper going national too fast
I've been in business for 14 years. Last year, our companies in total did over$250 million in aggregate revenue. I co-owned the platform School, which is over 22 million users. And school's a platform that allows people to start and scale digital businesses. And so I have access to quite literally millions of data points on what makes digital businesses work and what doesn't. And so in this video, I'm answering your questions about how to scale.
I sell dreams and I built an ecosystem to make it happen essentially. Let's get into it.
Okay.
Okay.
I saw hope and opportunity.
Ha ha ha.
I flip houses got to a certain point. We had about 30-40 consecutively every year in the same market. Revenue is about four mil. Okay. Adjusting out the line itself. But if it got to a point, just too much competition, you had a hard time being profitable per flip. So then develop a model where we Convert competition to collaboration, start a contracting company instead of buying the product, becoming the product, and then starting a coaching channel where I feed this ecosystem.
Vertically integrated HVAC company, roofing company, uh dumpster company, contracting, the whole nine yards. So I'm teaching people how to do it and I'm giving them the process and how to do it. All that is different revenue drips for me. Uh, what's stopping me? I got too busy too fast and uh winter operated for a long time, up until about three months ago.
Hired a COO now transitioning a lot of the operation stuff onto her. Really, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing because like I'm trying to transition myself out. I don't know how to run a COO.
trying to trans out of the role or out of the company?
A little bit of both. So out of the roll because to be honest, I don't really care about the revenue growth factor. I care more about the impact. So A promise I made myself is that I wanna impact at least five like uh one million lives before I die. So how do I do that? I'm not gonna be doing that flipping homes at a small scale. But I built a company that's so based in locality. that I'm trapped within it because it's so local, my team is there, my resources, my companies.
The coaching program only makes sense. Be because it's local, but because of my market size, there's only so many people I can get consecutively every time unless I keep dropping prices, the opposite of increasing price. Uh-huh. So what does that mean? I have to go to a national stage is how to how do I take this coaching?
at a massive scale. And that's where I'm stuck at because I'm too busy in the operations. And that's where Amy came in as a COO to kind of help me get out of it and focus on the next phase of, you know, the origin story.
I I I appreciate the national scale vision. I think you could probably get to given the ticket size and how you can monetize the customer in all these hundreds of ways, like the the reason you would do that setup is so that you could dominate a local market. You're not dominating a local market right now. You're barely getting started. And so you could probably realistically get between Fayetteville and Raleigh, you could probably get to a hundred million a year.
Justin, I'm not going to long.
Yeah. And I think if you just take your eyes off of like, I want to conquer the entire world, it's like maybe, but like in order to conquer the world you have to conquer a country first. Right. And before you conquer a country, you gotta conquer a city. And right now you haven't conquered a city. And so what happens is when armies overexpand, they collapse. And so you need to fortify your base better. Because ten dude, ten a ten a month is nothing.
So what do you recommend? Do I try to automate what I have? Or do I just put myself more into it?
Yeah, I think you should just ignore the national thing. And let me just ask the simple question. Can you Could you sell 20 people a week right now? Not like, let me say it differently. Can you handle 20 people a week?
We will be soon.
You could have an 8x increase in sales within your current infrastructure. So that would take you from four to 32.
That solves the revenue problem, not the impact problem.
Do you make content?
I don't have time. Yeah. If you couldn't tell, yeah. But that's where I'm slacking the most. Yeah, it's the content.
It would be far easier for you to just make content about the stuff you're doing, impact millions of people that way. than try and get every single person in America to be a home flipper.
And that's not achievable anyway.
I agree.
It's more about the financial education and like selling the the dream of like you could be something more than just what you think you are and where you came from.
And you can make content about that and you can distribute it for free with leverage. It's a beautiful thing. And so like you can be legit because you have a legitimate business and then you can talk about it and help all these other people. And then you just keep growing this thing.
Yeah. Yeah. You already have all the like you went through whatever the hell you did to go through and build all that stuff. It's like you just built it and you're like, you know what? I'm gonna leave it now and I'm gonna do another thing.
It's like no, like I'm glad you brought the COO in, but it's probably so that she can do some of the stuff you're doing now, so you can do the stuff you know you should be doing, which you're not. And so if like you want to do the impact you so you don't have time, you have the COO, go make some content. It's not gonna take that long anyways. And that way you can scratch her impact it.
And then for everything else, it's like you need to learn how to run paid ads and sell shit. Because like you for sure can sell 20, 50, 100 people a week in a local market, no problem for the offer that you have.
Should I increase pricing to make it better or should I keep it where it's at given that it does feed my other channels?
You probably have a better time just like charging a hundred grand and saying you'll do that stuff for free or at cost.
Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, can you raise prices? It's just like can you sell and can you like yes, you could. Typically an offer like this is a hundred grand. Yeah. So usually they have a done with you style offer that's between fifteen and twenty five. And then there's a uh total turnkey offer, which is a hundred thousand dollars.
No one on my market can afford that. That's the problem.
That is just not... If I'll I'll join your own. No one in your market that has heard of you through word of mouth of you emanating your presence into the the the workshops that you run once a quarter or whatever have can afford it. If you run ads, yes. It's just that like how many people show up to your thing?
The venue holds fifty five is packed out every time.
Yeah, fifty so you have fifty five people a month that come in the doors.
Every three months, yeah.
Three months. Right, dude. So it's like w the way this looks in reality is you'll bring a hundred people in the room and you'll do three of those in a day. And you'll pitch and you'll close 10, 15, you'll close three or five at the, you know, like the 100K, and you'll close a handful at the, you know, call it 15 to 25K. And that's that's the business.
So you're like you're you're you're like you see 200 people a year and you're like my market can't afford it. It's like well those 200 can't. It's like look at 2000. I'm sure there are some. Let me give you a stat. Nine percent of people in America have a million dollars. In terms of their net worth. So if you include the asset, like value of their home at like 9%, it's significantly higher than you think it is. They just look older.
¶ Motocross operator facing copycats and pricing wars
We sell motocross training. Okay. So we we hold five day camps. What we did to be able to get our projection to 26 to the 4 million is we scaled down our single day tour date. We were we we did more in twenty.
Love this phrase.
All the way to we scale from seventy single day tour dates in twenty three. To 140 of them in 2024, and it was just a ton of operational drag. I mean, it was like we were like a rock band.
Twice as much.
It was nuts. But what we realized and looking back on it is the bottom twenty of those were net negative. The the next twenty were net less than a thousand dollars, so inconsequential. And then I started looking at in 2024, we did three of the five day camps kind of as a test front. Each of those net well over a hundred grand each. And I'm like, well, hang on a second. This is the answer.
So this year I told the team, at first I called them, I said, Hey, I just had an epiphany, here it is, we're gonna do ten camps. And I said, actually, no, you I'm we're actually gonna do twenty-five. And they're like, What twenty-five? What do you mean twenty-five? My question is uh do I continue to my
Were you just able to charge more for the three day than the one day?
Uh
Why did they make some earth body? Sorry.
So the one day is three hundred dollars, which is probably not enough. The five day is twelve hundred dollars, which is definitely not enough. So that's what part of the question too. Cool. I wanna continue to scale the five dayers and scale down the single days, but my fear is we basically own the space. Nobody else does what I do. It's a pretty large market.
Um, there is one copycat company and he's trying to hit all these single day tour dates in the regions that were doing them. So I'm afraid if I scale them down too much.
We won't be able to copy the model that makes the money.
That's a great point. Yeah.
Love this for us, right? I hope he does.
Okay, I could honestly I could go home right now and I'd be happy after that.
Yeah, you're right.
You're right. And I feel more confident that I don't think he could do what we could do anyways, but he certainly can't do what we can do in a five-day event. I mean, we'd we've run those five dayers like nobody else. So
Yeah, and I'll land the plan on that for you too, which is that you will never go out of business focusing on the customer. And I'll I'll tell you a quick story. So the biggest business mistake that I I've made, the two most costly business mistakes I've made, one of them has nothing to do with this. This is the other one.
Which has everything to do with this. I had a competitor that ended up taking a bunch of my top testimonials that were that we kind of converted to semi-employees because they were big evangelists back in the gym launch day. And as soon as they took them and they were they were big ads for me, all of a sudden they were running ads for this other guy. So it's kind of like when the Verizon guy went to the ATT. Remember that that switch over, that actor? It was kind of like that.
And this guy was offering one-on-one coaching to help people out. I never did that. And so and they were cheaper. So they were cheaper, they were doing one-on-one, and they had some of my top, you know, customers uh becoming advocates. And they said that the 10 of them had come together, they partnered. He partnered with these 10 people or something like that. And when that happened,
I got rough my feathers got all ruffled and I was like, it's wartime. We gotta, you know, we gotta go to the mattresses. We gotta really, you know, change the change the business up. And so I did this big kind of like relaunch internally to my existing customer base. You know, I did this big value stack and then I said, You're gonna get all this extra stuff. Not for the same price you're paying me, but for less.
And so I took my existing recurring base and I reduced my revenue by$500,000 top line per month. And so that translated because we didn't take it off top line and the cost went up. So I increased my cost. And I took my top line down by six million and I ended up losing in profit somewhere in the neighborhood of six to seven million dollars a year for that business at the time. I then ended up selling that business, obviously, and the business never recovered that profit.
It stayed there.
And when I did make that move. The first comment in the chat after I dropped that it was less was a complaint that I had not done it earlier. So it was not, thank you so much for lowering the price and giving us more shit. It was I can't believe I was paying more.
And I was like
I wanna fucking kill myself. And and here was the best part of all. My churn changed zero. So I just cut my top line by 20%. Churn remained the same because the willingness to pay change that I made, I basically reduced it from call$3,000 a month to$2,500 a month. It actually made no real difference.
in whether someone would cancel or not, it was past a threshold that this is a lot of money. And so it changed nothing. I just made less money. And then when I sold the company, that six got multiplied by a lot. And so that probably cost me in the neighborhood of probably$50 million million. And so the big lesson that I learned there was that I shouldn't, and that that competitor ended up killing that business.
Because it wasn't fucking profitable. And so I was the market leader, and someone came in to undercut me, and then I said, Oh, I'll copy the moron.
It's easy to let happen.
Yes. And so don't lose fifty million dollars. Let him let him figure that out for himself. You just focus on the customer and you'll win.
Good answer.
Thank you. Appreciate it. If you're a business owner, I'd like to invite you out to come to our headquarters in Vegas to see how we scale businesses using what we call the value acceleration method, which is a compilation of all the stuff that we've learned, breaking down different businesses across different industries. And if that sounds at all interesting, you can click below and book a call and we'd love to potentially meet you and see you in person.
¶ A real estate agent coach seeking to double revenue
I sell coaching to real estate agents. Um, I do two and a half million. Um, I'd like to double it. What's stopping me? That's a good question. Your boy Ed. He seems to think I could be just super fan.
Uh huh.
He's like, you need a brand manager.
Yeah.
And so, you know, he's like, you need somebody that has already kind of achieved that with someone else. Right. So I guess my question is, how do I find that person? Because 99% of the stuff out there is scams, basically.
Totally that kind of thing. And I would even define them as skims, I'm just people with that are not that competent.
Scam.
I think it comes down to deception. Um, whether they intend to deceive or just aren't that good. But back back to your point. I yeah, I I agree. So fundamentally if you want to just make more money and you are a brand that promotes itself, then you need to advertise more. Are you constrained on your delivery?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's group coaching. It's easy.
So you could double the amount of customers you have right now and it wouldn't be. Okay. Well then yeah, I mean this is a pure advertising play. Yeah. You probably I mean
I'm I'm interviewing sales guys and I'm looking at paid ads, like hiring people for that. So like I'm getting into that.
Yeah, the paid side is going to give you call it like a one time three to five X off of a baseline, uh, not a promise or guarantee. Just saying like that's that's what I would say is kind of typical if you've gotten to this point off of just organic. Obviously, we can help you with that stuff. But like the long term kind of like uh well that you need to keep digging is you want to. So think about like this. So you have just imagine this is your audience. Right now you're monetizing these people.
Right. The people who are just like super hot, they love you forever, and you continue to promote. And you know, this gets filled up with new eyeballs, and then they come up because they see your stuff and then they give you money. Yay. Right. So when you start doing, if you do more organic.
And do it across more platforms, do it more consistently, do it higher volume, do with higher quality. Then what you're gonna do is you're gonna grow this, this base. This percentage will stay about the same, but now it's gonna go to here, right? So then that dollar sign goes up. That's a great long-term play, and you just wanna keep growing the pyramid. What ads will do is that ads will keep this the same and then it'll move this line down. And so you want to do both.
So like in the short term, if I was like, how do I tri like double your business? It's like that wouldn't be that difficult. I would just be like, cool, just pull the ad library stuff. But if we were looking at a ten year horizon, then I would say, Well, we need to do both of these in parallel. We need to continue to plant the seeds and then the the ads kind of reach off the top and and skim. Does that make sense?
For sure. So how do you find an ad manager? I mean I mean I mean a I mean a brand manager.
So
Yeah.
Yeah. The best thing I mean, I just we just poach. We just de I mean just outreach. Hey, you've crushed it with so and so. Can I pay you more to do it here?
Right. I guess how do you realize who those people are to poach? Like who
Look at the brands that you admire. And then reach out to them and offer them more money to do it for you.
You see the brand but you don't really know who's behind.
LinkedIn, like Frank and Hut like
Yeah.
Só Gotcha.
For sure solvable. Yeah. I mean, and most of the people who are really good at media stuff do have some presence anyways on their own. So they don't make themselves invisible. Like you could probably chat GPT search who are the people who are involved with that.
¶ Outsourcing vs hiring an in-house brand manager
That's my question.
Like
Like, is that something that could be outsourced? No, no, no, no, no, not the recruiting part, like the like the brand manager part.
No, I wouldn't.
Yeah.
Bring somebody in house.
Thing is w what are the so What are the core things to the business? So for every business, you have attraction, you've got conversion, you've got delivery, right? Those are the things that are core to every business. IT, recruiting, finance, I see all of these functions as ancillary that aren't core to value creation for the customer. They're things that must occur for the business to continue to be a business, but not things that are core for the value to be created.
And so for you, your brand is arguably the most important asset that you have and for sure would not be something that I would outsource.
So bring somebody in house working directly for you.
Yeah, I would poach somebody. Um, obviously we've done, we've hired a lot of media people, you know, happy with that. But beyond that, uh, I would probably, if I'm doing order of ops, it'd probably be because the thing is is right now, are you selling you're selling who's doing the sale?
Well, so I do it in a challenge. Okay. That's the only time I offer it, you know. Yeah. And so I'm gonna switch to book a call, single cell guy.
And do it on a recurring kind of evergreen basis or still do it in this launch form?
Do it both.
Okay, but you're selling straight to checkout. Yeah, that motion um as soon as you turn on ads is going to break in all likelihood because it's totally different selling to cold than it is to to warm. And so the motion.
Right.
You will not convert the same percentage you currently do.
Yeah, no doubt.
By a lot. And so the whole the whole the economics of the entire funnel will change. And so that'll take some adjustment in motion. So just more like preparing you for that'cause that's what comes next. Yeah. So High level recruiting for brand manager, that's going to start building the base. And then ads plus sales motion are going to have to come in tandem.
Because they both have to be good. The ads have to be good and the sales motion has to be good. If the ads are great and the sales motion sucks, it won't work. If the sales motion is great and the ads suck, it won't work.
Cool.
That makes sense for next step. What's up? That makes sense for next steps. Yeah.
Yeah, go to LinkedIn and poach somebody. Got it.
Ha ha ha.
¶ Online coaching business dealing with a high churn rate
We sell sales coaching and lead gen to financial advisors. We're at six point six million. We'd like to be at twenty plus. Um.
On paid ads, events, how do you sell?
Paid ads.
Okay. Straight to VSL to phone team.
Correct. Cool. Yep. Correct.
Yeah.
Biggest thing is churn, as with pretty much all A. So we've basically transitioned from lead gen company to sales coaching company, because we know that. Yeah. Advisors can't close. Any advisors in here. Yeah. So we're we're doing a lot of sales coaching now. So we have like the big head long tail where we can sell the lead gen on the back end.
Okay. So yeah, the main question is have you seen other agencies successfully pivot from lead gen to sales coaching or, you know, in like very non sales uh or industries where founders or business owners are sales deficient, have you seen Companies successfully train their clients on sales. So like at gym launch, how did you guys successfully do that across thousands of gyms?
We had something called boiler room. We trained their trainers and front desk people every morning and drilled them, role played and separate them in the groups the same way we would our own team. So we just did it every morning for them. And it was just an add-on.
Just group group role play basically. Mm-hmm.
Just like you'd have a sales manager meeting where you'd roll play whatever particular part of the script they were all struggling with.
And so we break up.
We break sales training from the team side, not on the one-on-one side, into five parts. We've got intro, we've got disco, we've got offer, and then we've got uh you know objections and looping. And then fifth day is basically whatever is kind of the hot topic of what's the thing that we think is going to benefit the team the most.
And so that's kind of how we rotate through if we have to keep each part of the script crisp, otherwise they'll fuck up something. And so that keeps the short, you know, the the the sword sharp. Yeah. Um and that's what we did, you know, across the team. We still we do that for our teams too. But I think it's likely that
It's under basically you need to provide more value or you need to lower the price. And so if you want to tackle churn, it has to be like there are for sure businesses that work in the space that you're at. I think Big Head Long Tail is a great model.
Like charge the upfront and then just make the continuity much, much smaller. So it's a no brainer. Like they'll almost pay that just to be kind of in the network. Sure. And so this is I'll just I'm I should have said this earlier, but it's like I try to answer the question so that it affects as many people as possible in this room. But the problem with information and kind of quote quote coaching or education type businesses is that people try to make continuity out of the front end.
Value that you're providing. And then the value drops once you have the skill. And so you have to separate out the consumables. from the one time things. The one time things also have significantly more value than the consumables do. Now sometimes they don't have the money to pay for the one time thing because they don't have the skill the one time thing would give them. Yeah. Right? That's kind of the issue.
So um in order to separate it, it's like you just have to think, what are the things that they get on an ongoing basis? And if we only sold that, what would the price point be? Likely significantly lower. And if we got them that skill, it would be significantly more. But once they have the skill, assume they have the skill on the ongoing basis. Yeah. What would they still pay for? Now you have the lead gen thing. Um
I mean the legend.
Oh everyone wants it.
How to sell using our process, they stay.
Okay.
The biggest thing is just making sure they actually
They just don't know how to cut.
So it's so it's like it's activation as well. So like getting them to come in and actually engage. Yeah. Because most advisors
All remote.
It's all remote. And they don't they also don't like sales. Like the word sales, like They like cringe inside when they hear it. So we've literally like ban the word sales. Like we we just say consulting. We don't call them sales calls, we call them consults. So like you know, like that. But um yeah, I'm just curious.
So it sounds like you just have to get better at training them? So Your issue though is that if someone gets activated, they stick for sure. For sure. Well then all of the all of the effort we have is how do we get them activated like better, faster, which is gonna be a function of two things. One is gonna be are there some avatars? that are better than others, right? So we only sell those avatars.
And we split that into three buckets. You've got demographics, what do they look like? Right. You've got the quantifiables, which is like what are the uh what size business do they have, whatever. And then you've got the ethnic the um I said demographics and there's
Quantifiables, there's a third one. I can't remember, but those two will at least get you on a head start um in terms of segmenting the traffic. So you can be like, this is who the avatar is. These ones have a significantly higher likelihood of converting. And what'll happen when you do that is your CAC will go up. But then your stick problem will get fixed. So like for example, if I sold everybody who identified as a fitness person, then Jim Launch would never have been able to exist.
Because I would have had too many shitty customers who are personal trainers who've got 10 clients, whatever, and they can never pay. And it doesn't matter what I do. And so for me to deploy the resources required to actually get them up to snuff, I have to have somebody who at their onset can pay more. So that I can actually help them. Okay. Because below a certain extent, it just needs to be DIY, which is a different business, not the business I wanted to be in.
So there's probably some advisors that are better that you need to basically scan out and say, all these people were not going to service because they have a low likelihood of actually working. And maybe you need to adjust price to only accommodate those people and that newer avatar that's better. So this is preferminally an avatar issue. And then obviously the ops on the back end in terms of activation is what if oh yeah, that's the third bucket, the behavior.
So what did the people who are have the right demographics and the right quantifiables, what behaviors did they do that caused them to activate and stick? And what did the other people who look like them not do? And then that becomes the activation process we reverse engineer.
Makes sense. Quick last question. How did you how did you optimize for for time to value? And how can we potentially do something similar?
Yeah, we'd email their list, they'd make a sale in the first seven days.
Okay, so just reactivation. Okay, sweet.
If you're doing a million dollars or more a year and you'd like to get to 10 million or a hundred million dollars, I can promise you absolutely none of that. But what I can do is create an environment. where you can actually talk to other business owners and players within those businesses that are doing those numbers. And for me personally, the big breakthroughs that I had in my business.
was when I came in with an open mind and was like, I don't know what I don't know. And so you probably have one of those. Like, how do I get my content to scale? How do I recruit these first salespeople? How do I recruit my 20th or my sale by VP of sales or director of sales? Every single level of this game has more complexity.
Than the last. And so if that sounds at all interesting, I'd love to invite you out to our headquarters for two days to talk to me and the team: director of sales, director of marketing, director of strategy, director of options.
director of investment, all the people that who actually run our portfolio at acquisition.com. And as a bonus, all the other business owners in the room are doing a million dollars plus. And yeah, so this is your invitation. So if that sounds interesting, click book, call if it's a good fit. Love to invite you out here and maybe see you in here in Vegas.
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