Megan Imbert: [00:00:00] Hello, my courageous friends on this week's episode of The Frequency of Courage I am joined by Sandy Lutton, CEO, and founder of the Opal Collective. Sandy, thank you so much for being here.
Sandy Lutton: My pleasure. Thank you. I'm honored and thank you for inviting me.
Megan Imbert: I am so excited. We crossed paths it was January of 2024.
We were at a Art of Abundance Retreat, and I had this running joke there because your presence and your elegance I started nicknaming you president of retreat and here we are. I have full chills as I say this here you are launching this beautiful program do you wanna share what Opal Collective is all about?
Sandy Lutton: Yeah, of course yeah, you, you inspired me on the president of retreats and I did my first retreat in November and it was amazing and I thought there's an opportunity to do something bigger and deeper than this and offer more than just retreats 'cause not everyone's [00:01:00] going to go , on a retreat, but everyone is going to go through a transformation at some point in time, whether it's something that they're choosing to do or whether it's something that gets forced on 'em, which we're seeing a lot of that right now. And I really wanted to be able to do more of this.
And so I really started thinking about it and I really wanna help people get into alignment. And what was that journey for me when I said, , wow, my whole world is changing right now my job was going away my marriage was not doing well and I didn't know who I was.
Mm-hmm. And I was at this space of going, I know there's more out there for me, but I don't know what it is I don't know how to get there. And thankfully, the universe answered and brought the people to me and really helped me go through this massive transformation that I went through.
And I wanna be able to do the same. I wanna offer people that same opportunity to really help find that alignment, really chase purpose in [00:02:00] their lives. 'cause I think that piece is the one thing that will bring true happiness to everyone is when they just can get aligned with who they are, accept who they are, get to that space of feeling like this is exactly where I'm supposed to be and just be grateful for that. And I think there's a lot of people out there who have been through some really beautiful transformations have amazing stories, and I wanna help give voices to that. I wanna help amplify those voices and help them reach the people that need to hear it the most, which is some of the old work I used to do, if you will.
And so you're right, I'm marrying the two and creating now like these immersive experiences, but also programs sometimes we just need a strategy. Totally help me get through I know where I wanna go and I have no idea how to get there. Or maybe I don't know where I wanna go, but I know this is not it. And , help create that strategy for people.
Megan Imbert: That's amazing. And guiding them along. You touched on, purpose. So many people walking through life not really knowing what purpose they [00:03:00] have or having a meaningful pursuit or maybe their ambitions in life were patterns or something that their family may have, pushed them along and they didn't know who they were.
I always think, that college age, high school age is so difficult when people put decisions on like, well, what do you wanna be? What do you wanna pursue? And , I've always looked at life as an adventure and I don't ever wanna be boxed in and to your point I think so many of our life experiences, a lot of times the not so pleasant actually start sparking where there might be a purpose.
So when you think about purpose, how do you define that? How did you know, and timeframe wise, your job was in flux, your marriage was in flux how long ago was that? So, listeners understand relatively how long you've been kind of on this path of transformation too.
Sandy Lutton: Yeah, that was 2019. So it's been a good five, six year process, journey, I'll say. The one thing I always wanna tell people, it's probably one of the hardest things you'll ever do is just find that courage to say [00:04:00] yes to yourself and really pursue that but it is the most rewarding thing you can do.
And not only that, but for me, it made me a better person and made me show up better for my children. It made me show up better for others in my life. Once you get comfortable with who you are and accept that, then you start to see where you can play and where you can help others and what feels right.
I think purpose is all about feeling. It's about knowing our strengths and embracing that and really pursuing that, knowing that you're going to get something back and you're gonna help others at the same time.
Megan Imbert: And your background previously was in sales mm-hmm. A powerhouse woman in sales. And one of the themes I've noticed in my podcast as of lately is how are we redefining the paradigm for women in leadership and also being a mother and having aging [00:05:00] parents there's such a beautiful perspective that I think you can offer listeners and mm-hmm. I don't think it's by coincidence that I've been gravitating to more seasoned leaders Yeah. To learn from and how you might have done things differently, but also talk about your journey of what that career path was like before there's a lot of overwhelm and everyone always talks about balance. I'm like, let's get to a place of harmony , what's your perspective there on your past?
Sandy Lutton: Yeah I was in sales my entire career, in so many aspects, so many different industries.
I did , direct sales. I was in sales, leadership, back I. Around , 20 15. Around that time, I I became the Chief Revenue Officer of the Washington Speakers Bureau. And , it's so interesting because I was so excited to get that title, and the things you pursued at that point in your life.
I was in sales because I wanted to make [00:06:00] the money, I wanted the paycheck, I wanted all the zeros in my paycheck, all the things like I wanted the title I want, , and I thought, oh, I have to do it all. I have to be that powerhouse superwoman, who does it all, and who does it all by herself.
'cause God forbid we need someone or admit that we need someone. I was just in this mad pursuit of all the things I thought I was supposed to chase , , the thought of what I. Pursuit pursuing that, what would give me I thought fulfillment would come from having the bank account.
I thought fulfillment would come from having the title. I thought fulfillment would come from, the success. When I was working with some very high profile, very prolific speakers, leaders, world leaders, and I thought, wow, I've got it all. I've done it , and then I, I was so empty though. it was that moment where I was like, nothing feels like I thought it was supposed to feel at this point. And why have I, I pursued all of this only to find, it doesn't make me happy. I was told it would make me happy [00:07:00] and it just didn't.
And what I realized far too late after much, much sacrifice, that was never going to make me happy. Mm-hmm. When it really took the time to stop trying to please everyone else in my life and meet everyone else's expectations, then suddenly I could look in the mirror and go, who am I? What do I want? I think I told someone one time, I was like, I didn't even know what my hobbies were anymore. Mm-hmm. I mean, I'm someone that's always been, like you, I love a good adventure I love doing things, I love traveling I love sports watching it, playing it like, I used to do so much of that stuff.
And then somewhere along the way I just lost myself to this grind that I thought,
that I had to do.
Megan Imbert: You're the tiny dancer that likes to drive Porsches.
Sandy Lutton: Yeah, that's right. That's exactly right. Yeah. My inner child, she likes to drive really fast with really loud music. And of course, 911 would be the ideal car for sure.
Oh, wow. [00:08:00] So, so, yeah. Once I gave myself permission to start being that person again. Mm-hmm. Guess what? Everything else seemed to fall into place. And you know what was so interesting about that point in my life too, is that it didn't change dramatically. I didn't move to a new city. I did, decide to start my own business but for the most part, I still lived in the same neighborhood. I still had the same friends. It didn't change dramatically, but what changed is how I felt about my life. And that's when I really started to open up and allow and accept others into my life who could help me on this journey, who were supportive of this journey.
And , that's what changed everything. And I wish that for everyone to be able to find that.
Megan Imbert: I would imagine too with the Washington Speakers Bureau role in traveling and , helping some very famous people . Right. And I think something that I am really leaning into now, and you touch on [00:09:00] alignment being the ultimate goal to just make sure that what you're doing is really coming from what feels good in your body.
Yes. Is the difference between performance and embodiment. And I think we can sense it now in terms of when someone's performing versus when they're just flowing. Like even this podcast, people have asked me like, oh, Megan, do you have a bunch of questions you ask people? And I, I have a couple notes, but if I'm just in it and flowing with it, and it's a good example of not forcing and allowing things to flow versus when we're constantly in a lifestyle of push, push, push so what you were talking about before was you had experienced material based happiness, but it wasn't the value-based happiness. That's why you could go to the poorest places in the world and see people by societal standards as , what some would say would be unhappy, but they're the most joyful because they're in community.
Community and love. Right. , so I think that is interesting too, given [00:10:00] that you were living in this dynamic of having the title and I know what that is, and you, you maybe your identity being tied up into the job and the accolades and the achievement and working alongside some of those people Absolutely.
In the same kind of realm. And then looking around like actually, what are we all performing here? When you decided I'm gonna start my own business, what was that process? 'cause obviously that's a big risk in and of itself, and I know, , you've also done some psychedelics that has changed my life completely.
I'd love to understand what led you to taking that risk and stepping into that courage.
Sandy Lutton: Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I initially I thought, oh my gosh, what am I gonna do?
And I already had this dream, as I was working I already had the dream. I knew what I wanted to do. I had it in my mind. I knew what I wanted to do. I'm like, if I ever leave this job, this is what I'm gonna do. And I just knew what it was. So, , I get the opportunity to leave the job, or the job left me, I should say.
I [00:11:00] was terrified. I was like, oh my God, I gotta have a paycheck. I gotta do this, I gotta do that. No one's ever gonna wanna work with me. Why would I think, what am I thinking? Da, da, da, da. You know, it just, you, you spiral. And , as I started to gradually reach out and talk to people, they were like, whatcha gonna do?
I'm like, well, I think I could, , do some consulting. I could help with this. And numerous opportunities presented themselves to me. So just out of sheer demand. Great. You know, which I'm grateful for. I was able to just immediately start consulting, doing some consulting work while I really try to figure things out and feel my way through it.
But, I did at that time start interviewing for big jobs with big titles. And I can tell you every interview was miserable. They were fine, except I didn't wanna be there. I didn't wanna have that conversation. I didn't care about that paycheck anymore. I was like, , I really don't wanna do this.
But I was forcing myself. 'cause I thought that's what I was supposed to do. I got [00:12:00] security and when I really said I don't wanna do this, I just gave myself permission to not do it. But it, it took others who were like, you can do this, no one said, don't go get a job. No one said that.
They just said, what do you wanna do? And if you can make it work, make it work. And I was already proven I could make it work, but for whatever reason,, I wasn't seeing that in me. And it took me some time. It really did. And it took me really stepping into some retreats and, start doing some of the work and really addressing those limiting beliefs.
That voice in my head that was saying, you must get a job. You need a paycheck, you need the, you need insurance, you need all the things, right? Entrepreneurs can't do that. , and you're not an entrepreneur. All those voices. , it was a lot of that work that turned off, those voices turned on a new voice allowed tiny dancer to come through , [00:13:00] and really speak up and speak her piece about what we wanted.
And, that's when things started to shift for me. And I just, I really started to tap into. What do I want? And it's okay to not pursue something you don't want because you've told yourself this is the safe thing. I realized that I had made some very safe choices in my life, right?
It's what's the safety, security route versus less risk? Because I also was of my parents' generation that, taking risk is reckless and you don't do that. And so for me it was allowing myself to take some risk and know that it's okay.
Megan Imbert: Right. Wow. It's so layered and I know with your retreats and trying to help other people, , find their voices live in alignment.
Walk me through some of the practices that you offer in your retreats and [00:14:00] also what would be your daily routine to try to keep yourself in that groundedness? Is there anything that you do routinely?
Sandy Lutton: Yeah, I'll, I'll start with me. , when I originally started this process, I was like, I, I don't meditate.
Meditation stresses me out. I, I can't meditate, , I get more stressed. But then, , a very wise soul, became my life coach. So someone had recommended that I, , just talk to a life coach. , and so I met this beautiful woman, her name is Beth Shaha, and she goes by the grounded canary.
You can find her on Instagram, or on her website, the Grounded Canary. But she really has a gift for listening and understanding where you are and guiding you through that process. She's a beautiful life coach, and I'd recommend her to anyone, she really helped me through some of that internal, parts work, and identifying that.
But, she was always like. Is that true? She would challenge my thinking. Is that true? And I hated that question every time she asked me. [00:15:00] 'cause I was like, no, it's not true. I would always say things like, well if I don't get a job, then I can't pay my bills and I'll be homeless.
And she's like, is that true? You know, spiral through, like, I'm gonna die instantly think she kind of shows you where you're taking your thoughts and guiding you through that process. So she was super helpful in that, but she also helped me redefine meditation for me. Mm. , I was putting meditation in a box and she took it outta the box and said, well, what if meditation is this?
That changed everything for me, it really did. And so I did start to meditate. And the other thing that helped me probably more than anything else, is journaling. That was another thing I really didn't wanna do. But once I recognized how good I would feel when I could just get all those crazy thoughts out and you could, I can go back and read journals now and some of them are really dark and negative 'cause it's all pouring out of me.
And then some of 'em are very insightful and supportive. I'm like, wow, okay. Like you could see the waves, the process that I went through. I do think [00:16:00] finding a way, some people need to process out loud and talk it through I'm definitely not that person necessarily I have to do it with myself first.
So writing is a great way for me to do it. The other thing that I think has helped me more than anything, especially as an entrepreneur, especially during Covid, right? We all found ourselves in our homes not seeing other people, not getting out much on Zoom all the time. And I realize now when I get into that space where those negative thoughts start to creep in and I start to think negative of myself or I can't do this I get on the phone with someone. Hmm. And that lifts me up almost instantly. It doesn't always matter who it is either. It's just getting on the phone with someone who you haven't connected with in a while who are just as excited to hear from you as you are to talk to them. Hmm. And I find that really, really powerful.
As far as the retreats and stuff go, I think so much of it is about creating a space where people feel safe and they can open up and talk and don't feel [00:17:00] judged. It's a judgment free zone. We all want that. And then once you can get to that space where you really can understand, like I am here, then that's when you can really start to help people figure out what might work for them.
There's so many healing modalities out there. You talked about psychedelics, that is one of 'em. There's energy work, things like that. I've done it all and I really just kind of honed in on what really resonated with me and kind of found that formula for me, and I truly believe that's unique for everyone.
Megan Imbert: Hmm. Such wisdom. I love this. I'm really happy that you're on this path and when you think about advice that you would've given your younger self now mm-hmm. What do you feel like comes up?
Sandy Lutton: Oh, definitely. the worry about what everyone else will think, mm-hmm. The needing to please everyone.
I'm 54 I think it's really important for people to know it's never too late. [00:18:00] It is absolutely never too late. It's never too early or too late to start this process. And I love seeing people in their thirties who have really stepped into doing their own work because I think, oh my gosh, you're gonna be so much more powerful when you get to my age. And I love that so much because I have so much more peace in my life, and therefore I can give more peace. I can share that with others. I have so much more love for myself, and therefore I can share more love for others. That's what I chase now. I no longer chase the paycheck. I no longer chase the title. It's the peace, the love, the happiness. It sounds cliche, but
Megan Imbert: it's not. It's so true. I think it's remarkable too that all of these shifts happened in your fifties. Mm-hmm. And that includes your divorce, your job, pretty much your entire world kind of got rearranged and it certainly
Sandy Lutton: did.
Megan Imbert: Yeah. And I find that really, really inspiring because I do believe, unless [00:19:00] people, to your point, start a journey of really what do I like, what's fun for me? And we get in this robotic system of produce, produce, gotta make the paycheck. It can become so routine. And in that security blanket.
How has your relationship with your children changed? I'm sure they've noticed a shift, but so curious.
Sandy Lutton: Yeah, so I have three teenagers right now. My oldest being 17, and then I have twins that are 14. And so my oldest is going through that period of figuring out what's next in life.
He's a junior in high school. He is looking at colleges. He is taking SATs, he's doing all the things. He gets asked constantly, what are you gonna major in, in college? And he's like, I don't know, I'm just trying to get through high school right now. And for him, , I really just try to hone in on what do you love doing?
And right now his thing is sports school is not his favorite thing. One thing I've learned is we all have responsibilities in life. [00:20:00] Bottom line, we have responsibilities and we have to take care of certain things. That doesn't mean good or bad or it's just their responsibilities.
They're called that for a reason. And so, , his right now is getting through school, making the grades. He doesn't have to be a straight A student. If he is, great if he's not, but I don't feel like you have to be a straight A student. I do feel like you have to put your all in and you have to do things you really don't wanna do.
That's the bottom line. But if you balance that with the things that you love doing, then suddenly things get a little more clear for you, I believe, and really focusing on what you enjoy and finding the balance of both, but giving yourself that opportunity and saying, you know what, I really don't wanna do this today.
I do it all the time. I really don't wanna go to the gym, but I'm gonna go, , I really don't wanna cook dinner and, but I'm not gonna order DoorDash again. We have to do that. I feel like I'm so much more patient with them. I don't put near the pressure on them that I put on [00:21:00] myself.
And I try to show them, I'm actually much more truthful to them, with them about what's going on with me and how I feel. I used to hide that completely. Mm. I can't let them see me, upset. I can't let them see me hurt. I can't let them see me mad. I can't let them be the target of what I'm going through.
And so I just open up to them and at the same time, I feel like that has opened the door to them to be able to talk to me. That's vulnerability. Yeah. I don't want them to fear ever coming to me about anything. But sometimes if we respond the wrong way, that will prevent them from coming to us. And so I do find, I really try to take a second, take a deep breath. 'cause everything they come to you with isn't always gonna make you happy. And just, my son got my car towed the other day and he is like, mom, I think this someone stole the car. And then I realized like it got towed and he's like, oh my God. He was so upset with himself. But I was like, you know what, it's [00:22:00] fine.
Breath this one through. Where do you need to be right now? You need to be at school. You go to school, I'll take care of the car. You know, that kind of thing. Five years ago, I would've not have responded that way. Mm-hmm. And so I am grateful to myself that I am now in this space where I can just take a minute.
Megan Imbert: Yeah.
Sandy Lutton: And really think through the situation. I think the other thing that I think is really important for me that I've taught them is going through a divorce and all that, I had to get to a space for what's in the best interest of the greater good of our family, as opposed to how do I feel right now and how am I gonna lash out at it? So showing them that and teaching them that I think is also really, has been really important and powerful for our family.
Megan Imbert: There's so many relationships where there's blended families or, , just co-parenting in different ways. I think what you said here too, in terms of the alignment and groundedness, it makes it so you have more spaciousness to be able to respond versus reacting.
Sandy Lutton: Yes.
Megan Imbert: And that teaches [00:23:00] your kids so much about that too.
And I'm sure definitely some challenging moments, but, emotional maturity. And you touched on radical responsibility. I'm not the same person I was five years ago. I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago. And when you get to that place of realizing, oh wow, I would've responded differently just to it like a towed car, right.
Yeah, when you think about it, it wasn't an accident. No one got hurt. It's a car. It's inconvenient, but when we give ourselves that level of spaciousness, we become more resourced. Mm-hmm. We're not just in this constant context switching. And, for me, I try to make sure my day is built in with padding for thinking and padding to go outside versus just back to back calls to calls. Creating a life that feels a little bit more free and being able to think. And I have no idea what it's like to be a parent, but I imagine sometimes a little stressful.
Sandy Lutton: It's all the feelings, right? You have all these moments there's that fear [00:24:00] 'cause you are responsible for these children, even when they're teenagers.
You're still responsible for them and you own that. And , there's that moment of frustration 'cause you're like, I just wish they would listen to me. And then there's those fulfilling moments where you see them really succeeding in life. And, one of my favorite things is when they come to the table and use my wisdom on me, first of all, it's a win because they've listened , and second of all, I'm like, oh yeah, you're right. Being able to tell them, you're right, you're hearing your words come back at you and you're like, mm. Yeah. But I mean, that's how we learn. I love that they feel comfortable enough coming to me and saying, Hey, I'm gonna tell you what you would tell me in this moment.
And I've certainly done it to my own mother. Right.
Megan Imbert: Yeah. That's been a big part of my journey right now was, , learning about these different, archetype and one of them being the divine mother, but realizing , what are those things that you wished your mom or your father could have [00:25:00] done or given you that you didn't receive?
And then as an adult, we mother ourselves, like we treat ourselves or we, tune into what those needs are. And I think that's super powerful because even though it's like the love languages, you might give love in a different way, but then being able to receive it where do you feel like you had some of those, big aha moments was it your safety within self, your self-worth, self love? For me, all of the above. Yeah.
Sandy Lutton: Self-love was a big one, and that trusting my instincts, right? I got to the point where I didn't think I could trust myself anymore.
And, , learning to love myself was a big one, and that was probably the hardest. And I will say that's where psychedelics played a huge role for me. I did a plant medicine retreat, not ayahuasca, but psilocybin. It was that journey that allowed me to go to the dark place.
The [00:26:00] place I was the most terrified of the place where all the guilt, the shame, all those things reside that you haven't let go of and I was able, in this particular journey, go there and it was terrifying in that moment. And it didn't feel good. 'cause , it all bubbled up. It's, it's like, for me, , it became a release just through just this intense crying.
It was like I let myself feel it all, truly feel it all for the first time. I didn't try to shut it down. I didn't try to shove it down. I didn't try to pretend it didn't exist. Because of the medicine, able to allow it to all come up and just surface. Mm-hmm. And as it did and as it came out I just cried and I cried and I cried. I was able to shift it. And that's when, as it came up and came out, it all turned into love. And it all turned [00:27:00] into peace. And all that love that I had ever given out came back to me. All the love that I had ever thought I should have received and didn't, it came to me if I could describe it as a visual, it was like this spiral, all the bad stuff came out and all the good stuff came back in and it was like this whole cleansing for me.
And I remember in that moment of going through that and I had this beautiful support group around me I remember thinking, oh my God, this is what it feels like to have peace with yourself. And it was just so powerful and I felt the energy of all my family members, all these people around me. And , it was probably the single most profound experience of my entire life, because it was in that moment that I was able to forgive myself to let go of all those things that I had been holding onto.
All those [00:28:00] regrets, I was able to let it all go and then I emerged from that experience changed, and the change happens over time. It doesn't happen overnight, but it's been a year now actually since that experience.
And someone told me the person hosting that experience told me it'll take you a good year to really get there. And I really do feel like I'm there and I'm at this place of being able to give myself so much grace, but I give others more grace than I ever have now. And that to me is part of the biggest reward. No one wants to be judged, and we all judge ourselves, but oftentimes we judge ourselves based on a decision we made in a moment. We judge ourselves based on , some moment in time, but what we forget is there's a day we are born up until this exact moment right now, and there's a whole lot of stuff in between.
So if I'm gonna just [00:29:00] sit here and judge myself , on that one moment that I made a bad decision, I am completely dismissing everything that led up until that point that brought me to make that decision in that moment. Hmm. And I don't think that's fair. It's not fair to me to do that to myself.
It's not fair to me to do that to others. So now I'm actually able to see people in a different light. I needed that. I seriously needed that for myself , and how I show up for others. That was my biggest gift out all of this it was my biggest gift.
Megan Imbert: I feel like we all need that. There's so much quick judgment. Mm-hmm. And losing the humanity. I did my Entheoguide level one training and a lot of it's around holding space. And so yeah, I did Ayahuasca for the first time last July. I did it again in February.
And every time you do plant medicine, there's times for integration. The medicine still works. And there are so many moments now where it's [00:30:00] like when you feel, and depending on your life experiences speaking for myself, being really empathetic too. I now know the amount of love and capacity for love that I have is so enormous and I used to hide my heart. Interesting. But then also not realizing how to have the healthy boundaries and how to do all of that. So it's been a process, but there's a period of the training where we did it eye gazing. And you're talking about just meeting people for the first time and not just, , you're sitting there eye gazing for a period of time where tears are just gonna come up.
You feel seen you're witnessed, you can't run away. And it's so simple. But it's, , really touched my heart. And that was in February and there's been moments now where, I can notice if someone's going through a tough moment and I just either sit with them or most recently there was a man that I just put my hand out and he kinda [00:31:00] high-fived.
I was like, no, if you're okay, hold my hand for a second. And then we made eyes and I was just really like, are you okay? He's like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. And I was like, I'm safe. But I know that obviously trust and safety, that takes time. But it was like, I see you. And then he was like, no, I'm not.
And that to me has been a big lesson and this is something that recently happened and I just need to keep leaning into that because the compassion for others in such a different way now. And I've been really leaning in on any of my masculine wounding and the stuff that might not even be mine to carry and I don't need to know about it.
So it's just getting deeper and deeper. But I'm starting to notice that there's these moments now in life where me a few years ago would've freaked out. I would've left, I probably would've said something. And here I just leaned in with love.
Sandy Lutton: Mm. I love that.
And
Megan Imbert: yeah, I keep calling on this podcast we need a humanity renaissance. Sit down with someone that you don't know and get to know them. Go a little slower in [00:32:00] the world. It's so profound. And then I know,, you have a profound story too, with grief with Jillian. Yeah. And I didn't know that about your story until I heard it on a podcast and I was like, wow.
Like I had no idea. Sandy went through that. Yeah. Are you open to talking about her? Yeah, of course.
Sandy Lutton: Yeah. , my first retreat I went to where plant medicine was used. And I've only done a couple, it sounds like I've done a ton of these, but I haven't really done that. I went to that knowing that I had some things to work on, but I didn't really know specifically what I was gonna work on. And truth be told, I lost my daughter she was born, the 4th of July of 2009, and she died the same day. And in my mind was like, I've dealt with this. I'm good with it, I'm a spiritual person and I just was like, yeah, I'm good. So it never even registered to me that was something I needed to work on. But the truth is, I had just buried [00:33:00] it so deeply that it was there still deep in my core. And as we were starting the process and the facilitators who were there that day, a lot of trauma workers, one of them spoke up and said, I'm that guy if a memory pops into your mind and it evokes a strong emotion in you, I can help you with that I'm that guy who can help you with that. And immediately she popped in and immediately I am a, started, I almost burst into tears. And I was like, wait, where's this coming from? And so that opened the window for me to be able to pursue that.
And so I pull him in along with, another team of people. There was just such a beautiful group of people there to support me. And I really worked through that process. And there was so much as a mother who had a a pregnancy terminate and not really know why not understand I had [00:34:00] so much guilt.
I did not protect her. I didn't do all the things , and even though I knew intellectually that there was probably nothing I could have done differently. The emotions and the heart, it just holds onto things. And I don't think we realize, I, I don't think anyone ever told me that before, that we hold onto these things.
And I never allowed myself time to grieve because I was right back to work. And all the people around me were kind of falling apart too. And so I'm like, well, I'm the one that steps in and saves everyone. I'm the one that helps everyone else. And so I, I'll find time for me to deal with this, but I need to be there for them right now.
And guess what? I never found time for me to deal with it. And it was in that moment that I was able to really go through that process. And it was hard and it was beautiful. And it was, it was all the things. And I walked away from that experience [00:35:00] really truly having peace and having released.
That grief but it didn't go away overnight. Again, I spent a good period of time allowing myself to grieve, and it was coming out in other ways even before that experience. But I didn't realize it, I didn't recognize it. So I allowed myself that time to grieve. And that's when I truly understood the power of plant medicine and what can be accomplished there, and how it can really be a healing modality for you if you're open to it.
If you're ready for it and you're open to it, , it's beautiful. And again, that's something I'm so grateful that I face that fear because that's what it came down to. It really came down to this thing I didn't wanna face. I didn't want to fully give myself the thought that happened.
And now I can talk about it beautifully. I've supported and helped others [00:36:00] who've been through that. I, spent years on the board of March of Dimes, helping other families with, premature births and things like that. , and it, opened a door for me , to again accept that her life was exactly what it was meant to be.
And that's what I gleaned from that. And , I'm a very spiritual person. I do believe that she's still with me. I do believe we will be reconnected again, and I can't wait. It's great. But I got a life to live and I got three more children that I have to show up for and fully.
And I talk about her, with them I give them opportunities to talk about her. I love it when they say, I had another sister, and they share it for themselves. And I'm like, wow. Had I not gone through that experience, I don't know that I ever would've given myself permission to just feel that and go through it.
Megan Imbert: that was so beautiful. Thank you for sharing. It's really powerful. I think we need to talk more about these [00:37:00] things. I completely agree. I notice folks in my life, and particularly also men in my life that have gone through loss and they just hold onto it and it perpetuates as grief versus sharing some stories.
And that could be any of us, right? And then, we stuff it down and it perpetuates into illness or sickness or, grief. Grief. I don't think grief ever really goes away. It just has the ability to transform it and I love what you said about, her life was exactly how it was supposed to be, and now you have tools to be able to help other people get through their losses.
And something you said struck me, around the guilt and the shame or being able to protect her. And I think mothers inherently there's a lot of guilt no matter what happens. Mm-hmm. And I can only imagine, just how complex that is also in a relationship and the layers of how to grieve, how to process.
And then also, I don't believe many [00:38:00] workplaces even give bereavement for
Sandy Lutton: No,
Megan Imbert: they don't this type of situation or miscarriages and, they don't. I think we need to think about that just as the whole human and what they might be dealing with and not feeling comfortable sharing. As a leader in the world what would you like to see done differently or from your experiences that could help? I know there's obviously a lot going on in our country right now, regardless of that, but just the responsibility and the privilege to lead people.
Sandy Lutton: Yeah. I think we have to get away from this notion of you have to be physically sick to need a sick day. And I think we do see it more in corporate America, probably more than we used to mental health days and things like that.
But there's a stigma attached to that too. People just need time. They need days to take a break if we all need it, so why [00:39:00] can't we just let it be that? I'm taking a day today. 'cause I need it. I'm taking a day. I'm taking a day. And whatever you do with that day is your business.
It's because you need it. And I think if you give people permission to do that, they're not gonna abuse it. They're just not. I think there is this need to control, , and so we create these narratives like, oh really? I'm sick or I'm not sick, 'cause I'm certainly not gonna be the person who calls in needing a mental health day.
I mean, what, why would we do that to
Megan Imbert: people?
Sandy Lutton: You know? It's okay. And then you get a, a
Megan Imbert: label or a stigma attached to you or someone judges you.
Sandy Lutton: It's okay for me to say I have a migraine and I can't function today. That's acceptable. But the fact that I might be grieving something that I don't really care to share with the rest of the world, that's my business.
Hmm. And I think it has to go back to let's let people take some time when they need it and honor that and actually reward that behavior [00:40:00] because as employees they'll be more loyal to you if they know that they can go to you and say, I need a moment.
Mm-hmm. And you respect that and say, no problem. Absolutely not many jobs are life and death. They're just not. So, let's not make it the end all be all. I think there's so much room for trusting people and I don't think anyone truly employs children, so let's not treat 'em like children. Let's trust people. And I think you build a culture of loyalty and ownership when you give the employees that opportunity. I've always felt as a leader is to be an advocate. Tell me what you need let me help, tell me what you need to do the job that I'm asking you to do.
Does anybody ever sit down and ask that question? But now what we will definitely on a regular basis sit down and tell you everything you're doing wrong and how you can [00:41:00] improve. , I'm not saying there isn't room for that, but I think there's definitely a space for us to talk about what do you need to be successful and how can I help?
Megan Imbert: Your answer here is sparking curiosity when you worked with some of the very high profile clients in the past and how you're able to sit down with them and really pull and understand who they are, what would be some of those strategies to help? 'cause you were building their narratives, right?
When they would be hitting a major stage. Was there a process or a different one for different people? Delicately. Delicately, um, ego, I'm sure plenty of egos. Everyone
Sandy Lutton: is, there's a lot of egos and we all know what ego is. It's insecurity and vulnerability, right? It's those insecurities that are coming forward, they're scared.
The one thing I learned is knowing the person and how pressure can impact them or how they [00:42:00] respond to pressure because what you would often see, we were dealing with people who were walking up on stages and giving speeches. So , you'll see someone's true colors when the technology is not working and they have 30 seconds to get on stage and start speaking, right? That's stressful. They want everything to go smooth. So you wanna do everything in your power to make sure that they are shielded from that, and give them, give that performer, I'll call it that, that opportunity to be ready to perform and not have to get distracted by all the other things going on around them.
I think that part's really important. it is different for everyone. I think ultimately, if you sit down with them early on and say, why do you do this? What message do you want your audience to hear from you and what's the experience you want your audience to have, then you can help craft that for them.
Hmm. If my job was always to [00:43:00] give them that platform to get in front of that audience. I did not need to be the person that told them how to do it or anything like that I just needed to give them the space to do it, and that's all they had to focus on. Mm. And ultimately knowing why they're doing it.
If they're doing it because they wanna make as much money as possible and fill their pockets to buy that house or whatever, then they don't care about the audience. They don't care about the quality. It's get 'em as in front of as many people as possible. Very, very few people actually are like that.
They might say that upfront, but if you can sit down with them , and say, well, how do you want your audience to feel after you're done speaking or when you leave that stage? That's the piece that they will be very honest about and then helping them figure out how to do that and deliver that message is the way I find.
Megan Imbert: Yeah. [00:44:00] People really can sense in authenticity , and if they're not connecting to an audience that's so valuable just in human interaction.
Sandy Lutton: I used to spend a lot of time in the audience when they were speaking so I could gauge what the audience was doing and how they responded to certain things.
I'll tell you a quick story. This is really cool experience for me, but I had an astronaut. Working with us. I worked with a lot of different astronauts. I was very fortunate. I got see a lot of cool people and they have some of the best stories, right? And this one astronaut was telling his whole story how he became an astronaut and it wasn't an easy road for him and he had to work really hard and he almost didn't make it.
But finally he had the opportunity to take that test for the last time. And if he failed it this time, it was over for him and he passed it. So he talks about his first time going into space and he's building up the story and he starts to tell about that moment where he is in the [00:45:00] space shuttle and he looks back and he sees Earth for the first time. And he said he got chills all over his body and he knew in that moment absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was a God. He just felt it. It was a feeling. He grew up a Catholic, he had shared some of that prior to, and it was just such a powerful moment.
You could see the whole audience just relate to it or you know, like, I want that, like it moved them. Mm-hmm. So afterwards I'm meeting with him and he goes to tell me what you thought, what, what could I change, da da da da. And I said, I'll tell you what I felt was the highlight of your speech. And I shared with him, , that moment and how the whole audience reacted.
He goes, wow. I was seriously considering taking that out of my speech. 'cause I was afraid I might offend someone talking about God. I said, don't you dare take that outta your speech. I said, because even if someone in that audience doesn't believe in [00:46:00] God, they will believe in that moment they will be able to relate to that moment in which they undoubtedly knew something was real.
Mm. No matter what it was I said that was like his most relatable moment because I can't relate to being an astronaut. I don't know that I've, I could have ever endured what they have to endure the training and the education and all the things I can't relate to that, but I can relate to that moment and that feeling.
Mm-hmm. Right. And helping him find that and keep that. That speech was, I think, really, that honestly for me was also a, I want to do more of this. I wanna help people know what's really gonna touch others. And, he was getting up there telling his story every day, but he really wanted to do it because he wanted to share with people. There aren't many people in the world who can say that they've been to space and that they've done something so extraordinary more now than ever. It's just beautiful. And the stories he tells were [00:47:00] inspiring and , it was really about when you think, you should just give up and move on
he goes, give it one last shot. It's those things that came out of his speech and that's what he really wanted to do, was just, inspire audiences to keep going, pursue that dream. And I said then that you need to , keep giving that speech. It was beautiful.
Megan Imbert: Even how you described it, it sounds like, oh my gosh, I wish I was in the audience to have heard him.
That sounds incredible. And that level of inspiration. Mm-hmm. So I could talk to you for hours and I admire you so much and I, I love this conversation. It's been a long time coming. When you think about your legacy, what do you hope people say about Sandy?
Sandy Lutton: Oof, I'm still working on this.
But there's a couple of things. One, I just wanna approach every [00:48:00] situation being authentically me. And , that's more for me, right? That's what I wanna be able to say about me, is that I just, I'm just me, but I also want others, just that I inspired others.
I really want people to feel like I inspired them to dream. Hmm. That is the end all, be all for me. If I can inspire people to pursue their dreams and their passions and their purpose, that's it.
Megan Imbert: When you reflect on your life, are there moments where you think have been your most courageous?
And also when you think about the word courage and the action of courage, what does that mean to you?
Sandy Lutton: Hmm. Yeah. Courage to me is that moment where fear is staring you right in the face and you say, I don't like you and I'm afraid of you, but I'm gonna lean into you and I'm gonna move forward.
Wow. I think one of the hardest things I have had to do [00:49:00] is change my thinking about truth. And what I mean by that is I used to really be that person that would try to smooth it over and tell people what they wanna hear and don't rock the boat. And I have learned since learned from a very wise soul that truth is kind.
Still to this day, it's a struggle for, it's a struggle for me, but I do it. I recognize it now. Just tell the truth. Tell the truth. Tell the person the truth. Because you want them to do the same for you. And I've just seen so many people professionally and personally who is looking for someone to support a direction that they wanna go versus a direction they need to go or should go, or maybe shouldn't go.
And we all can look for that yes person, and we can always find [00:50:00] them. I used to be that person. I won't be that person anymore. 'cause I love people too much not to be truthful to them and to be truthful to myself. Hmm. And so to me, courage is really finding that thing that's hard for you. I just want people to like me. we've all been there. Like, I just want people to like me. And you've had to fight that urge to be nice and , let's all be nice and I'm from the south. We like to smooth things over and, put some sugar in it and all that and make it all sweet and nice.
But that's not what we always need. It's rarely what we need, honestly. And what we need is those truth tellers people who tell us the truth. Like, you are moving in a wrong direction, but I'm here to help you. That kind of thing. That to me is those moments of courage. One other one, this was a little more fun.
Age 50. I go on a surfing camp with my kids. That sounds fun. And I [00:51:00] learned to surf at age 50. And it was terrifying. It was absolutely terrifying. But I'm so proud of myself and I'm proud of my kids everybody got up every morning and even though we didn't wanna get up early and we had to be in the water by 6:00 AM we still did it.
And it was hard. And I'm like, my body is not meant for this and all the things. But I did it. I stuck with it and it was so rewarding. , I was scared. I was scared, I was truly scared. I was scared I couldn't do it. Mm. Not scared of the water or scared of the waves. I was scared I couldn't do it, but I pushed and pushed and pushed and I did it.
It was great.
Megan Imbert: Yeah. And it's pushing, it's pushing those edges and Yes, I've had some episodes just around courageous conversations and courage to be curious. , I think there's a lot of derivatives of , go a little bit further. Is there anything we didn't touch on today that's on your heart?
Sandy Lutton: We, we touched on this. I will say this. I wanna go back to this is that we're never too old. Mm-hmm. Right. We're just not there's so much life to live every [00:52:00] single day. And I think it's so important to just own that. Mm-hmm. And really own that and just get out there and live it, whatever that looks like for you.
Megan Imbert: I love that. Well, I appreciate you so much. Thank you for joining me. We'll probably have more episodes. You're so eloquent. You need your own show. I would definitely tune in President Retreat of the Opal Collective.
Sandy Lutton: You'll be my first guest.
Megan Imbert: Oh, well, Sandy, you're amazing.
You're just a radiant light beam whenever I'm around you. So I'm rooting for you. This is so exciting for your next chapter.
Sandy Lutton: Thank you. And you also are such a light and a brilliant writer.
And, and I know we talked about some books you're gonna write, I'm, I'm just gonna hold you accountable to that.
Megan Imbert: Oh yeah. Books. Yep. There's definitely not just one. Definitely need to do that. Just multiple. I know. Oh, they're coming. They're coming.
Sandy Lutton: I love that you're doing this podcast. You are [00:53:00] opening so many doors for people to, give themselves permission to be themselves and speak their mind.
And so thank you for that.
Megan Imbert: One last thing since you just said that. Okay. Um, I think my Halloween costume this year is gonna be a permission slip.
Sandy Lutton: I
Megan Imbert: love it. I love it. I've been called that quite a bit lately and I was like, oh, that's gonna catch on and be pretty funny. Yes. But yeah, we need to just be the permission slip for other people and then they'll do it too.
Sandy Lutton: I'm coming to Austin for Halloween, please.
Megan Imbert: Right. Aw, well thank you.
Sandy Lutton: My pleasure. Thank you. This is great.