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Megan Imbert: Hello, my courageous friends on this week's episode of the Frequency of Courage I am joined by my friend, Joe Mechlinski, who is a New York Times bestselling author he's also the CEO of Shift, which is an incredible organization that we're going to get into on how we redefine work and build conscious leaders. And, he's from Baltimore he might be a Ravens fan we won't judge you for that, but I'm so pumped about having you on the show. And I know we've been trying to get together and you recently had the launch of your Who Says? This is an incredible book and not only do you bring wisdom, but you're bringing parts of history along with your own personal experiences.
Megan Imbert: So it felt like a memoir, but also splashes of real life, tangible at the same time, you're like, who says, who says you got to [00:01:00] do it this way? And I think it's absolutely freaking brilliant. So congratulations.
Joe Mechlinski: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I'm glad we made this happen.
Megan Imbert: Absolutely. Let's talk about the book a little bit because I feel like it encompasses a lot about your life. And one of the things that I love so much about whenever we have discussions, you're someone that I find to be not in a bad way, like a challenger, a challenger of thought, a challenger of like, why are we doing what we're doing?
Megan Imbert: We have these patterns and these programs that we've just been taught or systematically like walking robots really until we start breaking free. And so I'd love to know what, what drove this particular book for you.
Joe Mechlinski: Gosh, that's a great question. first I'm excited to be here. I love, the name of this podcast and I love what you're up to.
Joe Mechlinski: And I think the way I think about that question maybe sort of have starts with my dad. my dad, his birthday was yesterday.
Megan Imbert: Happy birthday,
Joe Mechlinski: birthday, Jim Mechlinski. [00:02:00] He, has just retired after 48 years and , one of the things that I. really look up to him is that, he didn't have a great childhood.
Joe Mechlinski: He had, five, his, his mom got married five times, twice to the same guy, which is how we got the name of Mechilinski. And so he had no concept of a father figure. And yet when he found out that he was having me, just dropped everything that did not belong in being a good man, a great man, a great father. A good husband and, he put his head down and for 48 years, Megan, I've never heard the guy complain really once, I teach , a lot of leaders, how to think about things differently. And to your point about challenging, one of the core tenants that he challenged me with, I used to see him and he wouldn't complain and I'm like, dad, what's going on? And he would be like, look, I don't have to work I get to work and just this notion of choice, this notion of gratitude, honoring, the opportunity and the privilege. It may not all be perfect. All of us got lots of work to do individually and collectively, but [00:03:00] sort of taking it back to that route for me, I think gives us all the ability to say, okay, great.
Joe Mechlinski: Where's the baby? Where's the bathwater? How have the conditions on the ground changed? What are we all learning? Because in a lot of ways, This book is also a tip of the cap to, , for the last 24 years, I have been advising companies. My company has been working with organizations.
Joe Mechlinski: And one of the things that just keeps coming back to me as a pattern is I walk into these companies and I tell every single one the exact same thing, which is, I don't know more about your business than you do. And if anybody tells you differently, they're probably full of it. And so, where's the space for us to explore, what's good for you.
Joe Mechlinski: And how do you find that inner song and how do you figure out, again, not to follow someone else's path, but to follow your own path. And so, some of the most successful people that I admire, they're not right all the time, but they do their very best to find what's good for them. And of course, what's good for others, [00:04:00] but in a way that's not necessarily a condition pattern or not something that someone else told us. And so I think There's a lot of this going on right now. I think as we're living in, I think that'd be the single greatest time to be alive. Truly. I mean, a hundred years ago, this wouldn't have been so fun and so yes, there's a lot of things that we've got to fix. And at the same time, , I go back to my dad of like, and we get a chance to be here.
Megan Imbert: And I think right now, too, I've talked about a lot, obviously, I agree with you this time to be alive we have every resource at our disposal. If we're privileged enough to have a cell phone and those sorts of things, and we think about the incredible technological advancements that are going on in the sharing of information, if anything, it's overwhelming the amount of information that's out there and the discernment between misinformation, all of those things.
Megan Imbert: But also when we think about it. And you point out in this book, how the five day work week really even evolved with the industrial age and what they needed versus now. I even had a [00:05:00] conversation with a gal on my team. They do a lot of events are on the road a lot. And I'm like, how are you doing? I remember traveling for a decade of my life and, , gaining weight or not taking care of myself for the job. And we can care about the work that we get to do, but we also need to take care of ourselves otherwise, what's the point of any of this. And I think your book, it's getting back to that essence of what is our purpose for this life and how are we showing up? What energy are we bringing in? Are we just scattered in our heads? Are we actually moving from our hearts? And I feel really passionate about becoming and continuing to grow into the leader that's conscious and heart centered of how are you doing? And actually really listening to that and figuring out a way that work can work for you, where we all can be happy about that.
Megan Imbert: So when you talk to leaders, where do you feel like you ever get the resistance, if any, and part of my question derives from when you work with leaders, in order to even get in their building, you're hoping that they're open and receptive to what you're bringing. What has that experience been like?[00:06:00]
Joe Mechlinski: Well, look, I started when I was 23, when I really knew nothing, nothing, okay? So I think , whether you're talking to someone on the shop floor or someone in the executive suite, it's basically the same thing, which is to meet people where they are and to have An amount of respect and, and treat them with dignity. And this may not always come off the right way all the time, but , how many times I've sat across from executives of billion dollar companies now, the second I say that, okay, I. I'm someone who has, spent a great deal of time in the community. I've invested quite a bit in, , issues of diversity and equity, and all these are things near and dear to my heart.
Joe Mechlinski: But the second we say someone in the billion dollar executive suite, we all have an immediate like, Oh, well, it must be nice kind of thing. And. What I would find is, is that, yes, these people, who have risen up, there's a variety of reasons and ways, and there's a lot of things that are not [00:07:00] fair about it, but at the end of the day, it is a human being who has traded an amazing amount of life to sit in that seat.
Joe Mechlinski: Now, I'm not asking us to cry a river for them. I am not. But I am asking, I think, them and all of us to just to imagine that, everything in life is about sacrifice. And unless you've really continued to put yourself in a position of taking on more responsibility, not just at work, but also at home in being a good friend, or being a good neighbor, or being a parent, or being a partner, it's not always as easy as I think people think it is when you're looking at it from the other side of the screen.
Joe Mechlinski: And so, I would just say that I have been, mostly, , inspired by the kind of leaders that I've met. They've certainly had just like we all do have some blind spots and some resistant moments to how they've done what they've done, because look, if you've been successful doing it a certain way, either as an athlete, , or some other kind of high [00:08:00] performer, , there is something to be said about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Joe Mechlinski: But to your point, I get the opportunity to not work in the same capacity that my dad did for 48 years. Like you and I get a chance to maybe, , like flirt with a side hustle that fills up our heart in a different way. We get this opportunity of privilege to, , look at our phone and ask it any question that we want in the entire world.
Joe Mechlinski: And your point, it's overwhelming to discern. What's a temptation to resist or an opportunity to seize or, , what is really going on in the world? these are all big questions. And again, thank goodness we get a chance to ask them. Thank goodness we get a chance to be in this moment.
Joe Mechlinski: And so I think in a lot of ways, , this is no different than when you talk to an executive about their employees and they'll say, my team just doesn't get it. Megan, they don't get it. They're not doing what I asked them to do. And then I go talk to the person on the shop floor and I do the exact same thing, which is.
Joe Mechlinski: They're just a person trying to figure it out doing the best they can woke up that day wanting to do a good job Guess what the executive felt the exact same [00:09:00] thing and so it doesn't mean that there's not a gap to fix What I think it means is if we can find ourselves not othering as much and I think that goes for all of us I do it more than I care to do it.
Joe Mechlinski: I get mad when I see injustice I get mad when I think people are purposely Trying to hurt other people and at the same time, we all know that the meme hurt people hurt people, right? So how many Disney movies do we need to see that every bad person started out as a good person because their broth was broken?
Joe Mechlinski: And so we find our capacity to widen our circle of concern I think is the opportunity for all of us right now
Megan Imbert: Yeah, I actually journaled this weekend and I'm curious your perspective because I do agree with you and I think especially what's going on in the landscape in the United States where, there's obviously people as you said, very rich got where they are, despite like we're living in a capitalistic economy.
Megan Imbert: I understand that. And at the same time, I'm hoping we can have also A [00:10:00] humanity centric renaissance in the U. S. And what I mean by that is getting back to, community, as you said, because what happens with capitalism, there's a lot more individualistic ness.
Megan Imbert: My hope is that as we evolve in, especially over the next 4 to 8 years where tensions are high, regardless of where we sit politically, It's getting back to the humanity and that leading with community in mind. I live in an apartment complex I was thinking about this this morning.
Megan Imbert: I don't know the names of anybody that lives around me and they're right there. I need to do a better job of getting to know the people in my own community. And if I start there, just like we start in our homes, it's gonna, it's gonna create a ripple, ripple of impact as you and I both have heard Chip Conley talk. I think I say ripple of impact on the show every single episode because it's so true. How are we leading ourselves?
Joe Mechlinski: I think that's great. Look, I'm a partner in a venture capital firm. , the head leader, my partner is Jeff Cherry and he's written some really, just a amazing, prose around [00:11:00] capitalism and how do we practice it in a more ethical and just way for all people?
Joe Mechlinski: And, we're all familiar that there are definitely way unacceptable intolerable inequities and, capitalism did produce the middle class scott Galloway says it's the greatest human invention. And so, back to when capitalism is practiced well, and we use the word meritocracy not to be conflated with how it's being used right now, if you have a family and you have kids and you want to see them thrive and look, it's that whole quip of like strong people produce great times, great times produce soft people, soft people produce hard times, like just. For a second, how many kids are born into extreme wealth and struggle?
Joe Mechlinski: How many kids are born into maybe not extreme wealth, but first base wealth and struggle. And so we all want to see our friends, our families, our tribes do well. How often have I tried to put a call in for someone, right? How often have I tried to open up a [00:12:00] door that is good, but at the same time, that's sort of not practicing the, the pure version of what we're talking about in terms of capitalism now.
Joe Mechlinski: There's conscious capitalism of how companies are doing harm. We need to think about that. Companies that are polluting, companies that are leaving negative externalities, companies that, are taking advantage of their workers, right? That again, we need to address those things for sure.
Joe Mechlinski: But I think you're right. I think Chip is onto something. As much as I, I can get so overwhelmed by all of it. And then I want to help. , and I think we have. And at the same time, I watched my daughter yesterday after a really tough basketball game, I watched her rally in Q4. And I watched the way that she was able to sort of be more resilient.
Joe Mechlinski: And, my wife this morning and I were talking about it and it's like, I'm not saying I deserve any credit for this whatsoever, but our mutual dear friends, the Coburns have a line that the best parenting is caught, not taught. And so, , I do think there's [00:13:00] something about, I saw this X post the other day that, you know, there's so many people trying to be the next Tony Robbins, and I love Tony.
Joe Mechlinski: This isn't a knock on Tony, but, you know, versus like people doing things. And again, caught versus taught. So we can teach all we want to each other. We can preach all we want to each other, but it does feel like as simple as it sounds, the best, example is the best example of just modeling the way.
Joe Mechlinski: And I think sometimes I can get a little twisty on that, but I do think like at the end of the day, we're all trying to find our center a bit, and I think it's like, how do you not leave? People behind and at the same time, how do you live your life and how do you, you know, build whatever it means to you to build a home? And we are in an age of abundance, I'm a kid who grew up poor, so I, I understand what scarcity is and it feels like, but what I say that is, in the context of like, you know, we have done really good things around, making sure people don't go hungry.
Joe Mechlinski: We have provided so many options that [00:14:00] are sitting on these phones to think about things. And so I think in some ways, part of what I keep just meditating on is, Dan Gilbert has a great Ted talk called the paradox of choice. Anytime human beings have more than three or four or five options.
Joe Mechlinski: We just, this was like a 10 year ago, Tedx talk. And he's talked about just how we are not equipped for unlimited, infinite options. And I think in some ways, that makes a lot of sense, because like, I remember growing up, it's like, yeah, you can have one toy, and that one toy brought us all the joy. And now, just again, making fun of these kids now.
Joe Mechlinski: They get all the toys and they're not all that happy. And so again, like it, it doesn't change what's on the inside.
Megan Imbert: It's like over overstimulation and excess. When you said that, I just immediately, I don't eat here, but the Cheesecake Factory menu, right? I don't need an encyclopedia for a menu. I'm like, I don't know what I want at this point. One thing you raised that struck me, and I've been on this a lot too, around, I don't want us living in a [00:15:00] time, and I think it's more important than ever, that people are not intellectually lazy. And where so many people get their information from their mom or their sibling versus do a little research, , take a little bit of the extra time.
Megan Imbert: I don't want to be as a leader. I don't, I don't think I'm the one that should be motivating you intrinsically. I think that's on the inside, like the inside job, I can certainly inspire and help create a mission that you want to be a part of, but that day to day, getting gritty, that concept of grit, I wonder is there a loss in ambition or is it what goes back to who says people living in these externally imposed goals and these teachings of their parents or feeling like, Oh, I'm going to be a teacher.
Megan Imbert: Cause my mom was a teacher. I'm going to be a lawyer. Cause my dad was a lawyer and they're miserable ever after and getting sick and your body starts to respond to it. And people are looking around like, why, , So I think what we're talking about is just so important in terms of finding out who we actually are and getting [00:16:00] curious. I had a leader in one of my previous companies where when we sat down and talked, he's like, I, I wish I could clone you. And I was like, well, why, why is that? He was like, you're so curious. You ask questions, you ask why, or just like this book, who says?
Megan Imbert: And so I appreciate you bringing this into the universe because I've been thinking about it a lot , why am I thinking that? Or where did that, where did that really come from? Like, why do I, why do I have that, that pattern or who told me, who told me that this is what my life has to look like?
Megan Imbert: And I think what I love about you and our mutual friends, the Coburns, when they created Cadre, they looked around and thought I don't like how networking works. I don't know where my community is so they created one and I, I get inspired by that because I'm also a part of Dr. Amanda Hanson's crown mastermind group for women.
Megan Imbert: And she says every day, Hey, I created this because I didn't have it. And I wanted to be surrounded by, , other people that, we're just building momentum and building and creating, [00:17:00] so it's super inspiring. Anybody listening, really look at your circle too. And I've had to let go of some relationships.
Megan Imbert: I think that's the hardest thing around evolving. It's like, I can love you and I'm here for you, but , I want to be around the creators and the thinkers and the challengers. And we're sacred disruptors. When you think about legacy and when all is said and done, when someone thinks about Joe, what do you hope that they say?
Joe Mechlinski: First, I would just want to call out two very quick things. Sacred Disruptors is like, uh, another good you're very good at this, , positioning and marketing piece. And I think you ought to think about doing some of that. So just as a quick aside, our mutual friend, Rob Winehole, is actually the one who I like to refer to often as his line is when it's all said and done what will you have said and done?
Joe Mechlinski: How easy it is to critique versus create, which again, starting this podcast and doing it in the way that you're doing it because again something I heard from him, which is legacy is not what you do. It's what you help others do. And so, you know, for me, as [00:18:00] much as I appreciate the way you introduced me, the New York times and the CEO thing and all that stuff, really, at the end of the day, mine is about how do we get to the things that help move us all forward?
Joe Mechlinski: And how can I positively impact people who are of great influence, and so I've had the opportunity to work with a lot of people of great influence and who have carved a path that was not, , at first, you know, if you go back and you really read what was happening during the 60s with Martin Luther King, like he was not a beloved character and force, and it wasn't just with people that look like us it was actually within his own community. And again, that line, you know, first, , they ridicule you, and then the rest, I can't remember right now, but I really do think , if we could just find a way that just because someone has a different point of view, even if it hits you to your core, and we look at a guy like Martin Luther King, 50 some years later, and we go, gosh, he was really on to something, or, we look back at times and we go, well, the times were different and it was hard [00:19:00] to understand things at the time.
Joe Mechlinski: And again, not to give people a hall pass, but to understand the context does matter.
Joe Mechlinski: And sometimes, I'll pick on a person I put in who says it has nothing to do with politics. But it does have something to do with power. , Graham Hancock, who I have been, reading about for almost 20 years he wrote Fingerprints of the God. If you think we get misinformation wrong, what do you think happens with our history? , I'm like, I can't wait to see what these files have to say about RFK, and MartinLuther King most people have no idea that MLK, there was a very nefarious thing that his family won a civil lawsuit against the FBI for having something to do with his death.
Joe Mechlinski: This is again, part of history. And so is a guy that's going all the way back 10, 12, 000 years ago to say that, there was potentially this ancient civilization that, that sat here on earth. And again, this isn't about like, for 30 years, he's been laughed out of every academic research Hall, he's been shunned, he's been told he was a conspiracy theorist, and there are conspiracy theories that we need to be [00:20:00] careful about, but they're also, sometimes, we could just be more curious about what we're hearing, and, yes, if he's right about what he's saying, it would re underwrite everything we know about history, but man, wouldn't that be so cool to understand.
Joe Mechlinski: Don't you think, we should know how they built those darn pyramids, we should know why there's pyramids in the United States, we should know why these structures had drawings in them all over the world that have, , a pretty big tip of the cap of, doing psychedelics all the way back in the day, like, why were they all talking about the same thing, why, like
Megan Imbert: Having same experiences.
Joe Mechlinski: Yeah, to understand, more about who we are, where we've come from. And yes, there are, our history is brutal, brutal. And, at least for now, we're still like magically moment by moment working this through and figuring it out.
Joe Mechlinski: And it is not perfect, but existence isn't either. And so we're just in the middle of this whole thing floating on [00:21:00] a rock hurling through the universe like come on people. What are we doing?
Megan Imbert: I was actually having a conversation with a friend recently who's friends with MLK's daughter and talking about a few of these subjects and something that I'm journaling on America has a checkered past and we have to see, and this goes even from a macro to a micro to see where we're going to go. We have to really be honest with ourselves about who we are, all of the, the good, the bad, the ugly, the sad, and the part about being alive now and one of the reasons why I started this podcast was every single person has a story and there's a lesson that I learn when I meet with every single person on this planet. I am the person Joe, walking through New York, Times Square and a homeless man starts talking to me and I'm sitting there chatting with him and then people are like, why are you too worried about your safety?
Megan Imbert: I'm like, not at all, not at all. And then I'm like, Hey, are you hungry? You gave me something no one else does. You acknowledged me as a human being and you [00:22:00] talked to me. That was the response I got. And this was years ago, but I've always been that way. And I was sitting with this, if we want a place that's peaceful, if we want a world that doesn't have war, in my personal humble opinion, these are all people at war with themselves.
Megan Imbert: And my hope is that we can elevate leaders that are accepting yeah, this is freaking ugly. This was a bad decision. The radical responsibility, I'll bring up Derek Coburn on this one too, we talk a lot about radical responsibility. Taking accountability for all parts of you and showing up in that way. And that's what I hope we see in leaders now. I can respect, I might not like you, but I will respect somebody that's gonna come forth and say, Yeah, I fucked up. Or yeah, this was a bad decision and also giving grace to world leaders or company leaders where it's like, you know I made this decision, but after critical thinking and having other sources of information My perspective changed and it [00:23:00] evolved as a human being the evolvement piece I've had very difficult conversations with even family members of, well, this person used to always think this.
Megan Imbert: I'm like, they, they evolved. And, and that's something that I just find where so many people are committed to their stories and They're not even willing to, to your point, get curious. So what is your advice for just helping people become more curious or if you find yourself in a conversation where there's just this wall, do I keep pressing here to see if we're willing to explore?
Joe Mechlinski: Yeah. Well, trevor Noah, one of my favorite comedians. He's got a, an amazing story, his last comedy special he had a bit in there that, depending on when this goes out, today is remembrance day, for all of our Jewish brothers and sisters who, went through something that is, one of the worst stains on humanity's, journey.
Joe Mechlinski: And, he talked about. The difference between United States and Germany. And he said, you know, in Germany, you walk around, you will see [00:24:00] monuments everywhere. , dedicated to the Holocaust. You'll see in the schools, they teach the kids about the Holocaust, the role of Germany in the Holocaust. But there's one big difference that they don't do, that we do here.
Joe Mechlinski: So here we try not to talk about it. So that's for sure one piece. But you know, the second thing that we do, that did not become clear to me until I heard him say it. And when he said it, it really resonated with me big time, which is, he said, So it's not your fault it happened. And we don't say that what we say is, well, wait a minute.
Joe Mechlinski: If you're one of these people, it's sort of your fault. There's a lot of shaming and a lot of guilting. And I'm not suggesting that people like me haven't benefited privilege the whole thing. But for one second, what Trevor, I thought said was beautiful is he said, it's not your fault. It happened, but it's your responsibility now that, you know, for it never to happen again. And that, like that subtle nuance, I think is [00:25:00] so beautiful. It's why I put it in Who Says? I think, us to learn exactly what you said, which is to not be afraid of our past, to understand that I probably had some not great ancestors, through the history of my lineage.
Joe Mechlinski: I'm positive of it. I don't know precisely, and I know that I'm not perfect. And I've made a lot of mistakes. I should be held to account for those. we should take responsibility, but I can't take responsibility for my grandparents, my grandparents, grandparents, but what I can do is I can be responsible, hopefully for it never, whatever never needs to happen again. And I think that would be like an emotional moment for all of us to rise up and find a way to, seek a bit more common ground. And I, and again, like, I think it's hard. It's hard for us not to have a team jersey on. I, I have it. I, I wear it sometimes, the Ravens sometimes, or the Bills last night, or , the commanders, earlier in the day.
Joe Mechlinski: And so I think sometimes, , we are, you said, you know, it's like we're low information or, or [00:26:00] sometimes we're a little lazy with our ability to like understand things. Even the word research, you know, it's like, we're all doing homework. We're not doing research. We're not, you'd A/B testing things.
Joe Mechlinski: We're not, we're not doing a double blind study. We're not in a lab. It doesn't mean we're not doing research by the way, but you know what I mean? Like that word it's used and it's not that you can't get information from the main street media or X or Facebook or Instagram or your neighbor or a book. Or a podcast like this one. I think to what I hear you saying, and I think it's really beautiful, which is I think what we, we owe it to ourselves to just be mindful of the bubble. We owe it to ourselves to be mindful of how things make us feel when we don't agree with them. We owe it to ourselves to fight with, for what's not right.
Joe Mechlinski: We also owe it to ourselves to just be mindful that like history will also not be kind to all of us. You pick on something that I think about a lot with our kids, which is like, They're going to look at us like we've looked at previous generations around civil rights or, , other really dumb things that we've [00:27:00] done and say, yeah, you, you all walk past and drive past homeless people all the time.
Joe Mechlinski: And although it was great what you did, I hope I'm glad you do it. And it's not always safe to do and it's complicated sometimes. And there's some of that too,, but there's 200, 000 folks in California that don't have, you know, like we, so again, it just depends on where do you want to look of where we need to do some work and it's complicated just complicated.
Joe Mechlinski: It doesn't mean complication means don't do anything about it we're not have a strong point of view and Realize that our attribution of why it might have happened might be right. It might be wrong
Megan Imbert: Yeah,
Joe Mechlinski: and so I think like it's the humility of Richard Saltwerman is the founder of TED. He's written 91 books He is 89 He'll be 90 years old this year. He is the smartest person, one of them that I've ever met. And he would explain this to me, a guy who finished Penn in three years, a guy who was the protege of [00:28:00] Frank Gehry and, Frank Lloyd Wright and Louis Kahn, the famous architects of our time. And he starts off with the idea that he just doesn't know anything.
Joe Mechlinski: He's like, I don't know. And my conversations are a process of going from not knowing to knowing. And I think a lot of us flip that. I know I do. Sometimes I start off with like, Here are all the things I know! I gotta tell you these things now! And again, Who Says is really this story of, it's several stories, several essays of interesting topics that, , I'm positive will all be wrong.
Joe Mechlinski: Positive in a year or two, we're going to go. Well, that's not right. And the aliens aren't coming in that way. They're going to come in this way. And again, that's okay. Like, , like you and I were technology tech, there was a little technology challenge to start this whole conversation off today.
Joe Mechlinski: It's like, you needed an update. And I think that's the kindness and the grace that we can provide each other, which is like, maybe we, sometimes we just need an update. So.
Megan Imbert: It's a beautiful moment. And I'm, I was debating on, I'll probably do a solo episode on this, given the commanders [00:29:00] and how they got to the NFC championship.
Megan Imbert: And, you know, very much about my story and going on record and doing all these things. And, as I write, I do think there's a book in me that's coming around the evolvement in the kind of the memoir of all this stuff. And when I decided to go on record, it was really after I learned of those explicit videos that the cheerleaders were a part of that they didn't know about.
Megan Imbert: And when I came forward, I really sat and this was very heavy. I was willing to go on record for the other people, but not for myself. And sitting with that, like, where was my self love, where was my self worthiness? And recently ESPN did an article where's Dan Snyder now?
Megan Imbert: I'll be honest with you, Joe, like five years ago, if you ask me, could you be in a room with him? Could you, offer him compassion and a big part of me would be, Well, I know the answer the answer would be no and over the weekend when I saw the article and I'm friends with Don Van Atta Jr that Pulitzer Prize winner that wrote it and I saw the line on this is killing [00:30:00] him This is devastating him.
Megan Imbert: And while old version of me would have looked at it as Oh, there he goes playing victim or something like that. And I just sat with that. I was like, I don't have an ounce of joy seeing that this man is so upset that it's killing him. It's devastating him. I know he loved the team. Just wasn't the right leader for the team.
Megan Imbert: And he did some terrible things. So, I felt really good over the weekend, and I kind of meditated on it, and I was like, I'm now in a place where I might be one of very few people that is sitting there saying, I really hope he uses some of that money to become a better person and get some help or really work through what he's got.
Megan Imbert: And I'm going to cry right now. I like, I'm sitting with it where I'm like, wow, , I'm in a place where I feel like I could reach my hand out to him and be like, you want to talk? I'm not scared of you. I'm coming from such pure love. And it reminds me of, when I watched [00:31:00] the, the bishop talk to President Trump and, J. D. Vance. She's just coming from such a place of love, , she loves them, she loves the people that they might have issue with. And I'm like, that's, that's the goal for me, embodiment. And I, I was kind of shocked when I, I sat with that article and I even posted on social about it. And I'm like, wow, like, I never in a million years would have thought I would be sitting here thinking, , I really hope that this man , can use his wealth in positive ways.
Megan Imbert: So I wanted to share that with you because I haven't really talked publicly about it, but that to me is growth and evolvement. And I think we need to have that grace for people and it's not being silly and sitting here like people can be reckless and I'm just going to forgive everyone or whatever.
Megan Imbert: But I do want to, I want to hold space for that. And, , so I just felt like I wanted to share that with you. Cause it's, uh, it feels like a really big thing.
Joe Mechlinski: It's the frequency of courage. It's the frequency of courage. And , I'm [00:32:00] team Megan on this one and team Mel. Not crossing any picket lines anytime soon for, his needing grace or space and I think, he can have all the money in the world but when his head hits the pillow at night he's still living inside of that body.
Joe Mechlinski: And again, it doesn't mean that, whether it's accountability, , him loving the team is like, has such a nothing burger for me, I think, creating harm and doing it in a way that's, , just not kind, not nice and horrific and terrific and hear me out, like, whatever the descriptors are, I don't want to mess them up here, I just want to say that, like, look, I do believe that there is some level of Evil in the world that is hard to redeem.
Joe Mechlinski: And you and I've had these conversations in the past, which is like, , pick your lane of what do you want to try to move forward? And I hope that someone tries to help him. I do, , it will get zero of my time, energy, and attention. And, I've got a hundred points of focus every day is the way I think about it, and that, that's me maturing. Cause I thought like, you can do [00:33:00] it all.
Joe Mechlinski: Again, just not all and I can support. You know, you, you can support me in our, our fight to make things better. And sometimes it might mean that I'm not as up on yours or you're not an up on mine. I'm just using us as relative examples.
Joe Mechlinski: And I think like part of us as a group of humans, 330 million or so is , we're just trying to figure out like, what are the things that we care about? And then also what are the complexities of like, how do we be good humans? And how do we make sure, that it still is good for everyone else because a lot of things are rooted in good at first, my brother was in a union.
Joe Mechlinski: His whole life. Okay. My brother, for those who don't know, this book is dedicated to him. His birthday was also yesterday. Shout out to Eddie Reitz and passed away a couple years ago. And, and again, like, this is not all unions are bad. This is not, you know, again, and I would just say, I have some experience with a [00:34:00] few unions where it doesn't seem like.
Joe Mechlinski: They're rooted in the things that they started with. And so again, it doesn't, like, I don't have to put on a team jersey to make this observation. And what do I know? I'm not a union expert. This is just my own anecdotal experience. So again, nobody should take this but with a grain of salt. And the whole point of this book is to say who says it's bad and who says it's good? Go figure it out for yourself,, and come back and help make the rest of us smarter in a way that is inviting us into a conversation about what you think, you know, so that we can either add to it. We can have a healthy discourse and debate about it and we can learn from each other and then we can hug it out.
Megan Imbert: We need more about
Joe Mechlinski: it. Like can't possibly agree on everything. That's not the way it's supposed to go down. And every time we do or don't, we should all be going like, am I being caring enough as a guy who looks like me? Am I being as thoughtful as I, where's my [00:35:00] blind spot? Where, what could I be thinking about differently?
Joe Mechlinski: And at the same time, I make no bones about this. I also have a point of view about things too, and it may not always be welcome to be heard, which is cool, so sometimes I'm going to put my foot in my mouth. Sometimes I'm going to say things that, you know, and again, from a corporate perspective, when we walk into these companies, what I see a lot right now is that it's a bad, you know, it's the whole world, but in corporate competitive landscapes, it's a prisoner's dilemma.
Joe Mechlinski: If I don't do it, they'll do it to me. And so for a second, how do you break that? It's like you, you, you can't snitch on the other part. You can't take the other person down. You got to be willing to put your sword and shield down first.
Joe Mechlinski: Well. I don't know about you, but I don't know a lot of people willing to put their sword and their shield down right now. And I get it. Nobody wants to lose their place in line. And there's been some really bad shit to happen to people back to there's evil to be able to discern the snake versus the stick. [00:36:00] Dr. Doug Brackman, who, works with people with PTSD. And I was one of those people. I've been hyper vigilant my whole life up until four or five years ago.
Joe Mechlinski: I'm like learning how to
Joe Mechlinski: You know, and i'm still learning I mean I still see things that make me Feel like there's a physical threat imminent, , or if I see somebody that I love dearly that feels like they're hurting and then I go who's hurting them But like, where do I need to go?
Joe Mechlinski: Cause I'm happy to do it, and that doesn't, these are all bad traits. These are not good things to follow. I'm just sharing, , in the same way that you, you know, I just, I give it up to you, Megan, I think it's a beautiful take, I think it's a, it's a great example of the embodiment of the podcast and what this thing's all about.
Joe Mechlinski: And, and on behalf of the rest of us also trying to figure it out. Thank you.
Megan Imbert: Thank you. And I also thank you for having, having my back. And I hope I don't raise blood pressure when people are like, don't put yourself in harm's way, please. So I know we've had conversations about that, [00:37:00] too,
Joe Mechlinski: so that's the complicated part. Like,
Megan Imbert: I do have a heart that wants to help everyone. And I want to trust there's good in everyone. And that discernment is definitely something I'm working on and this last year too was that notion of the safety and establishing the safety within myself and really feeling grounded and into that and not being in the, oh yeah, I'm going to help everyone like, no.
Megan Imbert: To your point, there's 24 hours in a day, so where am I going to put my energy and effort, and what's, what's the best for my purpose and my impact and how to help, so I absolutely love this, and one part of the book, too, that, , obviously touched my heart was the story where you talk about your mom.
Megan Imbert: And there's so much to unpack there in terms of learning how much you can help someone and be there for someone too. Do you feel like you have capacity you want to share about part of the book around that and when she died or is that too heavy for right now? Let's do it.
Megan Imbert: Okay.
Joe Mechlinski: So, , [00:38:00] my whole, whole story is sort of in the book, but I would give the quick version. My parents met when they were 20 and 21. My mom was hitchhiking. She was back from break in California, trying to be an actress. My dad, was doing some things that, probably wouldn't have shown up so well now. Again, you can read some of that in the book. they got married quickly. They got divorced quickly. money was a problem.
Joe Mechlinski: And, I lived with my grandparents for a while. I lived with my mom until I was about 13. We went to five schools in five years. She was single mom in it. My dad was trying to figure things out. He got married. But the whole time this is happening. My mom was also very ill. She had gotten diabetes right after she had me, , this is the early eighties into the nineties.
Joe Mechlinski: We didn't know much about this. My mom was though a hippie. She was this spiritual angel who had this such a beautiful way of seeing the world and had a hard time fitting into the matrix, had a hard time with the world part, the money part, the. The job part, [00:39:00] the, , the win lose part, the, it doesn't all shake out in the wash part.
Joe Mechlinski: It just doesn't. And that's okay. It doesn't mean don't live your life that way. But, , I watched her really struggle. We really struggled. And, at a point in time growing up as a teenager, it just, you can only be so hungry so long. You can only, , goodwill and the things that I didn't have enough clothes to make through the week.
Joe Mechlinski: And , I'm seeing myself in a totally different world. I'm living a schizoid world, like where I'm here with her. I'm with my dad at times, and there's a whole different life happening there. I'm an all star athlete. I'm a good kid, but I'm running the streets like a thug, and I've got all of these versions of me, and , she got sicker and sicker and sicker. She ended up losing her sight. She needed a kidney transplant. She needed a pancreas transplant and, I was coming from, , a high school that is statistically the worst high school in the state of Maryland. We had a 23 percent graduation rate, , which is insane, insane.
Joe Mechlinski: And I got this [00:40:00] lottery ticket to go to Hopkins. And while this is all happening, I'm trying to like imagine, , I hadn't read a book front to back before I got to Hopkins. Sorry, Hopkins, if you're ever going to listen to this. And while I was at school, I'm trying to make it academically.
Joe Mechlinski: I'm playing football. I'm trying to do the thing. I'm running a business. I'm trying to take care of her. And she never left the hospital for four years. And it's a hard thing. You get calls, you got to go back to the hospital. She had two more pancreas and kidney transplants.
Joe Mechlinski: So she had a double double. of those and she was in a wheelchair and I'm her only person for the most part. , and this was a lot.
Megan Imbert: That's a lot to be a caregiver and going to school and doing what you need to do to start your life.
Joe Mechlinski: Yeah, , and a healthy amount of PTSD from growing up where I did, , with a lot of guns and violence and fighting and drugs and the whole thing. Fortunately she saw me graduate, which was amazing. And then, , when she got out of the hospital for the first time, I set her up in a nice little apartment and, it just so happened months later, she had a heart attack and , [00:41:00] I've gone to the hospital as her caretaker it's probably not a hundred times, but it was probably more than 50. And, the doctors are doing the best they can. And so they said, yeah, she's going to be here for months. And so I said, I'll be back in days. And so when I left for New York, I got a call the next day and it was from my mom.
Joe Mechlinski: She was literally in her house, which she had just had a heart attack three days before that. So the hospital had made a mistake. They shouldn't have let her leave. And, the bottom line is, , that. That call, didn't go so well between her and I, and I just was like mad. And I just, for like once I was like, I can't do this right now.
Joe Mechlinski: And it's the first time I said, I can't do this. And that of course would be the last time to have the opportunity to be there for my mom. And so. She passed, when I got back to Baltimore a couple of days later, they found her, and it was not a kind, it was not like a peaceful death , you could see she really struggled. She was, I don't really know what happened other than, she just had a heart [00:42:00] attack and probably something to do with, , her blood sugar and all the other ailments that she had. And so look, I, I spent a better part of. The next 20 years, , trying to find how to hide the pain, how to feel the pain, how to, how to transmute the pain, how to, how to work on me, how to change my mindset, how to, how to do enough good in the world.
Joe Mechlinski: So I felt better about myself, how, how to do all the things. And, I would say I finally found a little peace, , to a lot of peace in my relationship with my wife, Erica and our family, when I was just able to share this whole story. I mean, like what's in here.
Joe Mechlinski: And so I had this moment to really share the whole thing and it was the first person I'd ever shared any of that with and I just remember she was crying and I was like, why are you crying? She's like, because you've been hanging on to this for 14 years. And it sort of changed my relationship with the story and the pain.
Joe Mechlinski: And,, as I look back on it now, it [00:43:00] all looks like, Oh, I can see it all happened for a reason. Right. You know, but in the moment when you're living through that tornado there's a lot of guilt, there's a lot of shame. There's a lot of, I want to be a good person.
Joe Mechlinski: I want to be a good man and I want to hold up the tent and I want to try to do what's right. And I have little excuse. I have had such a blessed life, and at the same time,, that was the 23rd funeral I had gone to by the time I was 23. And so I had a lot of chances to just. feel into that this is all quick for all of us and so i'm sure sometimes i live it a little over dialed about the like hurry up and make the most out of every moment and i think at the same time it's helped me i think just really ground into our friends will laugh at me when I say like, what are we doing here, folks?
Joe Mechlinski: Like that, I don't know where that came from and why I say it all the time, but, it's, it's a way for me to remind myself, just to hold each other a little tighter and we're all going to make mistakes and, we're doing the best we can. And sometimes [00:44:00] it's not good enough
Joe Mechlinski: and that doesn't make you a bad person.
Megan Imbert: Thank you for sharing that. This book who says, I think everybody needs to read it this year or gift it to someone. What I really love about it and I've been really called to having more men on this show that are really doing the work and being vulnerable and being raw and being honest because the common theme as I talk to different men is, and this is no different for females, but where there might be shame or guilt or feeling like, holding it together for so many, when in reality it's okay to, to share and, that self forgiveness piece. The game with ourself is the biggest game there is, so if we can get ourselves to a place of We're not perfect and recognizing, , the person you are today is because of your father and your mom and Eddie this beautiful, culmination of these incredible people in your life and while there might have been challenges, all of that has made you into who you are and how you're able to have that Best [00:45:00] impact on the world. It's one of my favorite books that I've read. This is the kind of thinking and challenging that we just need to have more people putting is this the way it needs to be?
Megan Imbert: Or can we do this a little bit better? How can we show up better? So I certainly could talk to you for hours. Is there anything we didn't cover today that you feel on your heart or parting words?
Joe Mechlinski: at the risk of like maybe one more minute, I've got something I think you're hitting on that. I just would want to make sure it gets out there. So when I talk about this being the single greatest time to be alive, I want to be clear that it does not mean everybody's having the same experience and it does not mean that it's easy for everybody.
Joe Mechlinski: And if you zoom out quickly. In 1450 ish, we got the Gutenberg Press. It was the first time that the Church did not have the stronghold on what truth was. Okay? We produced 20 million copies of books in the Bible during that period of time, and right before that, it spawned, leaving the Middle Ages to the Renaissance period, which is where we got art, the Sistine Chapel, and Michelangelo, and Leonardo da [00:46:00] Vinci, and we got science.
Joe Mechlinski: We're no longer the center of the universe. Like we found out that narcissistically, there might be something else out there, right? And culture, , we got all these wonderful things that happened during that period of time during the Renaissance period. And the one thing that people don't talk about, Megan, is it's also the first time that Europe got introduced to coffee, this plant.
Joe Mechlinski: So we went from drinking beer, being slow and foggy to being sharp and focused. And that fueled this acceleration to the industrial revolution, where all of a sudden, a hundred years ago, we got the tractor and 70 percent of our country worked in the fields and we were saying, don't displace the farmers.
Joe Mechlinski: We, what are they going to do for work? Sound familiar? And then we go through a pandemic and two wars and we get the middle class and we walk into the 60s. And again, psychedelics are reintroduced this idea of thinking about other people and civil rights. And we put a man on the moon and again, make love and not war. The relationship we have with plants and technology. And power here we [00:47:00] find ourselves again with AI. We're talking about Ibogaine and MDMA and psilocybin and how it's helping people with PTSD. Like I see the culmination of us getting right with power, with using these modalities and finding the work within, and then also using this amazing unlock called AI that could take us from the farm using the manual labor to getting potentially back some of our brain labor over the next five to 10 years. So the bullishness is we work on this, we work on the rest of this and what can't we accomplish.
Megan Imbert: Who says I'm here for that. I'm here for that. The humanity Renaissance with a little dash of technology in there. I'm here for it. That's amazing, Joe. Thank you for, for being you and yeah, the sacred disruptors. I feel like there's something to that.
Megan Imbert: It's fun.
Joe Mechlinski: Thank you for having me and really, , I just would encourage people to continue to listen to Who [00:48:00] U Be, , because it's a really great thing in the world.