Welcome to the Everyday PM Podcast, the podcast where we discuss project management principles for your everyday life. My name is Anne Campia, I'm the founder and host of The Everyday PM as well as a project management enthusiast. I am so excited to welcome our very special guest who is Rahul Chenna. He is the program management professional. He's joining us today and we've got a lot to talk about in that
space. So Rahul, for those who have not met you yet, please take a brief moment to introduce yourself to our audience. Yeah, sure. Of course. Thank you for the introduction. And so hi everyone. My name is Rahul Chenna. I'm a very curious energetic program management professional. So I am currently working at Tire Rack as a senior program
manager. So I basically look at the customer experience for people who purchase tires online and I have a masters in engineering management and I also have a bachelor's in computer science and that's pretty much where I try. I love making sense of chaos and putting them into standardized processes. And once I have a standardized process, I basically, what do you say, scale it up? So that's where I thrive. And I'm very excited to share whatever information that I have
with you guys. And hopefully if you have any questions, I'll do my best. Let's let's talk a little bit about your professional journey. Was there an aha moment when you realized, you know, I'm doing program management, this is what I'm meant to be doing. A lot of us tend to fall into us at least in the project management space, which maybe what we should clarify the difference between project and program, right? But a lot of us tend to fall
into it accidentally. So I'm curious in terms of your professional journey, how did you figure out where you were meant to be so? That's actually a very interesting topic you brought up because I never set out to be a project or a program manager, honestly speaking. So I did my bachelor's in computer science and one of my main aims was to become a programmer. And out of my undergraduate, I had a bit of stage fear. So my first thing was I'm having stage fear.
So I need to fix that. So I jumped into sales. So that was my first job out of undergrad. And since I was in undergrad, I was in sales. I was doing a lot of without knowing what I was doing. I was doing a lot of portfolio management, program and project
management. And since then I worked in construction, I worked as a product manager, I worked as a product manager, I worked as a consultant, I worked as a program manager and in various industries like manufacturing, construction, civil engineering, sales and marketing. Like none of these places, I, I never knew that I was doing
that. I was doing that, you know, like the reason I actually got into product management was because my third company out of my undergrad, I was in a software engineering company and during one of the onboarding processes, they were like, hey, you have a lot of knowledge and management skill. You are perfectly suited for product management. Just go there, you know, and that basically opened my Ave. and I didn't even know what product management meant at. That time you.
Know I I jumped into LinkedIn like I had access to LinkedIn learning and I think I did like 80 to 90 courses like. Wow. Exactly is project management, product management, What are the differences of like what do people do, How do we do it? What are the techniques like that is the type of person I am. I have an opportunity.
I'm just going to jump in. So that is how I realized that I've been doing product program and product management for the last three to four years of my life without actually knowing I was doing that. That's incredible. What? You're talking about is exactly what my journey was as well. I was basically pushed into it without I was knowing what I was doing. And since I've been pushed into it, I basically embraced it.
You know, I started going into it and now I'm the youngest program management professional holder in the world as of October 22nd, and I'm very proud of that. Yeah. So let's let's before we dive into that because I don't want to make an assumption that our audience knows the differences between project, program and product. What to you stood out about
those different areas? Because you know, when people refer to PM, sometimes they're talking about projects, sometimes they're talking about products, sometimes they're talking about program, Let's not forget, maybe they're talking
about portfolio. When you are doing that, you know, countless hours of going through these courses and really just absorbing what these roles were, Could you break it down for our audience in terms of, you know, in a very basic way, what is the key differences between those? So think about it this way. Let's go first with product and projects, OK, So project, program and portfolio, these three are in the same packet. Product in itself is separate industry, let's just call it that bit.
So the major difference between these projects and the product is that product is more customer focused where you have a specific product you're focusing on it is directly, customers are directly using it and you're responsible for ensuring that the product that you are developing has the best usage. Like what are your metric as it can be sales? What are that coming to projects? OK, so projects, programs and portfolio. So that's basically the hierarchy it follows.
So projects are essentially. So think about it this way. You a company has a director, right? Like they want to make more money. Companies do that. That's what we are here about, right? So they want to make more money. And the way of making more money is by initiative like strategic initiatives. And when you're looking at that strategic initiatives, you can't just say, hey, make me $1,000,000 just like that. You need to have a plan to get
to the $1,000,000, right? So that when we're talking about $1,000,000 of in revenue, that is where the portfolio comes in. It's probably 100 million different higher level, but just for the sake of discussion. So that is where the portfolio level is. So OK, I need to get, I need to do something in order to get that excess amount of revenue. Sure. So you can't do a portfolio as it is. You need to break it down into like you everyone knows WBS like work breakdown structure.
So you want to break down into easy writable shocks. So basically portfolios are broken into programs. So programs are like collection of projects that basically are towards a single initiative. So portfolio can have like 6 or 7 initiative and each of them basically becomes a program in itself and under the program that is where you have the projects. So a program is like 6 or 7 projects that are working together to have a common goal. And maybe I'm I'm rambling that was.
Great. No, that was perfect. Yeah, that's the gist of it. Like how do you ensure that you're meeting the organizational objectives without over complicating stuff? And you do that in these hierarchies. You do that with projects, you do that with programs and then with portfolios.
It was a beautiful breakdown and I appreciate that just because I, I want to make sure the audience understands when now that we can talk about your accomplishment, that the reason why you and I had started chatting in the 1st place is because in October of 2025, you hit a great milestone in your career. And so when we talk about program management, I wanted to make sure the audience was clear
on what that actually meant. So let's get into the milestone, Rahul, I mean, you, you shared it, you, you alluded to it, but tell us again, you know, October, that feeling of accomplishment and getting the certification, but walk us through that entire journey for you. Oh my. God, I, I would just say that like my family and my girlfriend were like shocked because so I mean news first, like I am the youngest program management holders, certification holder in the world.
I've spoken to. There is no official way of saying this. I've spoken to a bunch of people. I even spoke to Brian. Brian who actually did some research on program management holders and so far there is no one younger than me. So if anyone is to break that record, hey, please feel free. I, I, I would appreciate you guys too. So I am the youngest recorded program management holder and I'm very pretty proud of that. Congratulations.
Yeah, lot of yeah. It was a lot of work, but it was worth it. So, so tell us about what point did you decide I'm going to invest myself in getting the certification? Are you also PMP certified by the way? Yes, I am. OK, so I. Actually got my PMP certification because my university paid for it. So I'm like, hey, you know what, Might as well get it, you know, I've been doing it for a long time. I don't need to pay that money, so hell yeah. So folks are very familiar with PMP, right?
But for those that are just kind of getting into the industry or really haven't done enough research to understand what other certification is exist, you've got project management professional, you've got program management professional and you've got portfolio management professional. And they're just a plethora of others that have sprung up since, especially since I've started doing project management
about 15 years ago. So as the youngest PGMP holder, what do you have to say in terms of the journey? What, what type of effort did it take? You know, I know you can't obviously disclose what's on the exam for folks that are interested in taking it, but walk us through that entire that entire journey for you. Yeah, so how I got started was that I want to, it's been a while since I've set a personal goal for myself. So this was not a professional achievement for me.
This was something that I want to do on a personal level. And I was like, you know what, I've been doing program management for a while now, but I have never actually sat down and learned all of the knowledge that I could consume like I did with product management, product management. So that was where my goal was. Like, I want to get all of the program management information, but it's not widely available
anywhere. And I'm, I'm basically in the dirt trying to figure it out myself, you know, so that is where my journey started. I, I want to do it by before my birthday. So that was a deadline that I set for myself and it took sleepless nights. I would say. I think it's been 5 to 6 days of continuous education. I mean, definitely before that too, but before the exam it, it was actually a 7 or 8 months
journey for me overall. And like the week before the exam, I took time off work and I sat down and I read, you know, like I went back to the basics. Like what exactly is project management from that levels? Like I took myself over, like next step over, next step over. And that is where I, I wasn't reading what the example say. I was reading to remind myself what project management and program management is all about you. Know. Understand what am I doing correcting my current position
and what could I develop more? Yeah. And that was my aim like and I, I, I can easily tell you that 6-7 days I didn't even know what I was eating. I honestly was like, there is food on the plate I'm eating. That's pretty much the energy that I was going. Wow wow wow. Do you find that the PGMP was? I don't know what the the time span was between your PMP and your PGMP. Did you find one of them a little more difficult? Were they pretty similar in the
waves of PMI? And so for those who haven't taken a certification through Project Management Institute, you, there's enough information online to tell you they're not easy. And so obviously with Raul saying it took me days, sleepless nights, I didn't know what I was eating half the time I was studying for this exam. What are some of the key differences maybe that you notice between APMP and APGMP that you can talk about? So let me put it this way, When I wrote the PMP, that was the
toughest exam in my life. OK. And I don't think I've ever done that for even my undergrad or my college exam. Like, hey, those were straightforward for me. Yeah. But when I wrote the PGMPPMP seemed like a walk in the park. Like, honestly speaking. Well, it was so interesting like program management professional exam is more of a do you understand what you need to do as opposed to what you need to do right. So it is more of understand the situation. What exactly is the best way of
doing that? Right. Most of the options if you look at the program management like if you when you look at PMP you can easily say one of these options are not true. At all? Yeah, process of elimination, right? Yeah, exactly. But when it comes to PGMP, all of them are so close that you really need to understand what is the core, what do you say the core energy of program management profession, like what are they aiming to do? So when you get that knowledge, you can't really answer them.
And yeah, it was an interesting journey. I would say like it's fast. And also I'm, I also sent an e-mail to PM, PMI about this program management professional exam is they have a lot of grammatical letters and some questions you have, you actually have to extrapolate what they're asking you. You have to imagine, oh, I think this is what they're asking me. Yes. And then answer based on that. Yes, yeah, understood.
Program management professional. I just pulled it up for those that are interested because I'm going to assume our audience is familiar with the PMP, but maybe not so much with the PGMP. So based on what her whole has shared in terms of his journey to get this certification, it looks like you need at least four to seven years of experience. This is again demonstrating an advanced level of expertise through managing multiple projects in a coordinated way.
So if consider it in the way that Raul had painted the picture between project, program, portfolio, product, right and the difference is there. But this certification would then verify that you have that program management background, that experience in order to navigate complexity and align to strategic objectives. I think that's really critical as well.
So that is kind of the overall picture from APMI perspective of what their certification is. You could couple that with what Rahul has shared today and then make a decision for yourself. You know, is PGMP the next step in your journey just as it was for Rahul or is there another certification you're looking
for? Obviously, for those who have been listening to the podcast for quite some time, you know, I'm a huge proponent of continuing education, whether it's through going back to school, getting another degree or, and, or getting a certification. So highly recommended to consider what Rahul has done in his journey and apply that to where you're at as a project
management professional. Now, Rahul, I also know you're heavily involved in PMI or at least you're an active member, right of of your local chapter as well as the community. So you've done all of this, you've shared your story with our audience. I have a feeling you probably will. This will not be the last
certification you go after. I'm just, if I was going to bet any money on that, but outside of work, outside of studying for the certification, obtaining that amazing milestone of being the youngest PGMP holder, you get back to the community as well. Number one, Rahul, you're I, I know I typically don't touch on age, but you touched on it. So we'll, we'll touch on it again.
You're very young to be doing all this stuff, so it's incredible that you're able to do all the things that you're you're able to do at this point in your career. But let's talk a little bit about giving back to the community because you do an element of that as well. Where did that come from? How did that you know, was there any inspirations throughout your professional journey that led you to wanting to also give back to the community?
And you can you just describe for audience a little bit about what you do to give back to the project management community? No, thank you for bringing it up. And like, so, so just so you guys know, I'm the VP of education and certification for local PMI Michiana chapter. I'm also the director of training and mentoring for the
Northeast Indiana chapter. That's so basically the entirety of Indiana, two or three chapters I'm actively participating in. And the reason I wanted to do that is because growing up, I had to figure it out myself because there wasn't a lot of existing knowledge, like let's just put it that way, because I was jumping into product management, program management. But I never, I had to figure it out myself. Like I basically rolled in the dirt myself and like, OK, this is what it means.
This works. This did not work. That is the level of granularity I went to it when it comes to the education. But looking at the litter of knowledge available outside it is, it is no doubt like people can get confused or scared when they're trying to get started in this industry, right? And what is my main aim? Like I want to demystify program management and product management so that the people who are joining into the field don't feel like, oh, I have to figure it out myself, you know.
So that is where my aim is because I don't, maybe it helped me be who I am. Like I love doing that stuff myself. But I do know that people like guidance. I had the opportunity to have amazing mentors and I am fortunate to be mentoring a lot of folks as well. And that is not what I thought I would be doing, honestly speaking. So this is an opportunity for me to give back to the people who basically pushed me to be where I am. So that is why I'm very heavily involved.
So I do a lot of events in the Indiana region. We go to community events and recently I've been in Saint Francis University as well. I help guided young product management professionals like students who are giving the final projects. So that is where I think it makes me feel satisfied because I know I didn't have the full support when I was trying to figure it out myself. Yeah, I can be that support for others who are trying to do that. So it's. Beautiful. It's beautifully said.
I've always thought that was one of the greatest things about joining the project management community is we all have that inspiration coming from somewhere, right? Like you said, you didn't have that, so why can't I do that for others who are now trying to come up into the same space? I think it's such a beautiful thing that I whether it's PMI that has promoted it or just inherently in the project manager's mind, the fact that we also have been through it and we
want to give back. That's the best way for you to share your experiences. That was really, really beautifully said, Raul, and I'm glad that folks are able to reach out to you. They're able to learn from you, your journey. And then ultimately for this podcast episode, I hope inspired to do more, whether it's also joining their local chapter, PMI chapter or getting another certification and I should promote to everybody.
This is not by any means this conversation is not promoted or what do you call it. PMI is not sponsoring anything around this. I think it's just a beautiful thing that Rahul and I share in terms of our our love for the community as well as the the opportunity to give back to project management. So all of that to say, Rahul, is there anything you wouldn't want to leave for the audience in terms of kind of parting wisdom or words now that you've been
through the PGMP journey? So this might meet with a bit of criticism, but I'm a huge believer in training my replacement. So I love educating people so that they can do things that I could never do before. So if when you're getting into project management or program management in any of these industries, one of the major things that help you grow and help others grow is asking questions. So I, I am probably the guy who asked twenty stupid questions for every 100 questions I ask.
But those stupid questions matter a lot too because that is where the code knowledge comes from and that is what I strongly believe in. So my parting wisdom would be learn each and don't be afraid to explore because if someone says something, so be it. You. You are always answerable to yourself, no one else. Absolutely. Very nice, very nice. So Rahul, you have to promise this one thing.
When you get your PFMP, I'm going to guess that's what the purpose when you get your PFMP, you're going to come back to the everyday PM and share your journey about that. OK, so if if folks want to connect with you, learn more about your story, where can people find you online? Yeah, sure. So I'm always you can reach, reach me on LinkedIn. So I would probably be the first person that comes up. And if you are ever in the area,
hey, just drop me a message. If you're if you want to be involved with the chapters, please drop me a message. Like I am very eager to meet with you guys if you have any questions, if you want to learn more about the journey and you have specific questions that you can't find anywhere, I can answer it. I would be the person happiest to do that. So LinkedIn is my primary mode of contact. You can also reach me through the e-mail. You can find that on LinkedIn as
well. Awesome, awesome. Well, Rahul, thank you so much for taking the time to walk us through your journey. I think this has been enlightening for all of us. Like I said, you're coming back when you get your next certification and you're going to remember the everyday PM audience when you're running PMI one day. I, I, there's a lot of big things coming from who I'm sure in the future. So thank you again for your time today.
For folks that want to continue the conversation with me, you can find me on LinkedIn and Campia. You can also follow and subscribe to the Everyday PM Podcast on any of your podcasting platforms. Apple, Google, you name it, we're on their search for the Everyday PM. Let us know what you thought about today's conversation that will do it for Rahul and I in this installment of the Everyday PM podcasts. And until next time, take care.