The Draymond Green Show w/Baron Davis: Ty Lue on Cavaliers-Warriors NBA Finals, Kawhi's return to Clippers

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Everybody?

Welcome back to this Draymond Green Show with my dog BD.

Chill him bro.

Before we get into this episode, please subscribe to The Draymond Green Show with Baron Davis so you don't miss any episodes.

That's right.

Follow the show on all social media platforms Draymond Show so you don't miss none of our great announcements. And as we get into today's episode, I told y'all therapy works. And you know, I've been through a lot in my life, a lot in my career, and to bring this guy on with some of the wrong he's done in my life, it's a big step for me in my journey. But today's Yes, he's an eleven year NBA veteran, two times

One of the best coaches in the league.

First shore, bar None, I got a lot of respect for quite honestly, one of the coaches I hate playing against.

And we'll get into that a little bit. We have our little banters. I talked junk Toy, but.

None other coach of the Los Angeles Clippers, t lou What's how you love.

My guy? What's happening? What's up? What's coach Laco at?

My dog?

My dog is a coach, you know what I mean. We came in the league together. You got all them gray hairs.

Years old, and I'm coaching now twenty six years later. I'm coaching like I would never thought I'd be coaching, man. But it's been a blessing. You know, the game of basketball has been a blessing for all of us. And then just to you know, turn the chapter from being a player to being a coach. Man, it's really putting me in a great position. Like I said, basketball is everything, you know. You know, I wouldn't know what to do ify they playball, like I said, or if I wasn't coaching.

So it's everything, man. Just you know, just to speak about coaching, you know what I mean? Uh, you know, you one of the best coaches in the league.

Uh.

Man, You're an NBA champion, and I would like to kick the show off by talking about, let's get into this Cavs Warriors situation and is this the first time you ever talked about this? Sorry, Jake, come on, you know that was coming listen. Was the fastball, the amount of times I see T Lou like I see T Lou at private events.

We are part of the same family, like like, we've never spoke about this, and the fact that we starting this podcast and that's what you want to talk about.

Man, I'm one today.

Y'all could have took Draymond Green out of the show today. This just could have been the Baron Davis.

Show today if that's what you wanted to start this just show off talking about it. But since you want to talk about it, let's talk about it. Let's talk about Let's talk about it.

Teelor when you worried.

The first two games, especially the last time y'all saw the Warriors in the finals. They won the last three games and then Draymond you can talk about, you know, in the finals, how y'all felt the first two games. But you know, coach walk us through this series. You know what was the mentality and feel free because you say whatever you want?

You know what I mean?

You know, like, well, for me, it was like, you know, you go through the you know, you go through the Eastern Conference, you know, and you know it's a different style of basketball. Until you actually play the Golden State Warriors and see the speed and the pace that they play with. You can't duplicate it, you know. And we had a lot of time to prepare it, but you can't. You can't prepare for the speed, can't prepare for the shot making and how hard they run their stuff, you know.

Playing so fast and so fast.

And what happens is a lot of people get you know, they go crazy about the threes that clay and stuff, whatever's gonna make with you lose sight of shit.

They got sixty points in the pain.

Because you wanted the step if you're trying to do and now you got Drake, you know, one of the best passes in the league.

You soon as you go out to help step, they slip, They getting dunks and getting layups, and so you kind of lose sight of everything else because you're so worried about Clay and Steph you know, coming off screens. And so those first two games, like it was hard to make adjustice because.

It was blood.

Four or so, like how do you really adjust?

But you know, I think the adjustment we made was it was really good for us, because you know, you play, you think about we're gonna switch everything, you know we want to, and they just picked you apart, an pick you apart, so you know, look at the film.

Over and over and over again.

When game three came, I said, you know what we're gonna We're only gonna switch Steph and Clay's when when they come together and splits everybody else, We're gonna just drop back. You chase and follow, and then we'll protect you. Like if if Barbosa pops back, if Egal Dollar pops back, if Sean Liberston pops back, we'll live with the results.

But you can't like switch everybody. They were just too good. And if you got j R.

Smith chasing Steph full speed and now you gotta stop and kept trying to go back, it was too much.

And so like listen, if Stephan and Clay come together, switch, If not, you're on your own.

You got Steph and you got Clay and that really helped us out, you know a lot. And so what people don't understand is like after the first two games, I didn't show film like because you know, because sometime I'm brown and be you upset and he in the back rolling his eyes. You know what, I'm gonna stay positive everything we do. We shot half course shots, we just did a lot of different stuff. And then when we won Game three, then that was a game I

People don't understand until you actually get it.

Yeah, and then you know, speaking up, well, j I'll let you talk in a minute, but uh, speaking up on game four one of the biggest turning points in the series.

And then you find out.

Dre Man wasn't gonna play game five, Like, what was the adjustments, like, you know, going from game four to game five, because once y'all, once y'all tied it up. I like watching the series because I felt like every game after Game three, it was like somebody went back and made key adjustments to make the game that must stick here, right.

Yeah, I mean, so, you know, they win game four, you know, and I thought we played, you know, good enough to win, but they win Game four, and then we got to go back to Golden State, you know, for game five, and then we get the news that you know, Draymond's gonna be out. So for us, that was something for us like the automatic pick our pressure up, like, you know, now we got to pick our pressure up.

I'm like, man, you never know, it's gonna come down to something.

And so for each play, we had different guys guarding different positions, and so when they came out to run a knee three plays, you know, Drey was taking it out and we jumped to our formation and d was kind of looked like, like, what's going on. So we deflected the bar in the bounce. So then they go their second knee three play, they switched it and our players was guarding somebody different and we was able to take it away.

And then so Bron said, man, it came down to games.

I said, you never know, like you got to work on it every single day because you never know when you're gonna need it.

And so every day we work on the knee three.

They're like, man, ain't none of the games been close while we're doing this, and then Game seven it came down to, yeah.

Man, that was crazy, what BD? Welcome to the party, Come on, Jray.

I appreciate it.

Speaking piece, I don't have much to say.

We lost, but what I will say is no, it's crazy because in playing in those series like it prepared us in moving forward to know how to make those adjustments because it was a chess match, like every time we would play from game to game, they make this move, We make this move.

They moved a queen, we move we move our rook.

You know they we move our like.

That's that's what those series were.

Obviously, when I got suspended for game five, it changed everything.

But also you know their adjustment.

It's interesting because their adjustment to pick up the pressure is obviously how they took over and won the game.

Because when you get in a.

Lot of series and a key piece like that gets moved, normally your game plan stay the same, right because you're like, oh, we've been playing this team, your game plan stay the same, and then you come out there and you get blasted, like it happened us a couple of years ago when we won a Championship. We played Memphis and game four, Game five or something like that, and jaw was hurt.

Then not get suspended. And I'll never forget.

I was watching that game next door at the Age game and I had on all black, I had on some black Nike combat boots, and I had my route down and everything.

I'm like, yeah, we're gonna win.

This game, and I'm taking the long route to the court so i can walk past all of the casts when they walk into the locker rooms, they head down and I'm all black and up mobbing in there, and it just didn't work out for us. Man, I was sitting in that I was sitting in this sweet washing the game, and I didn't realize I didn't recognize the team I was watching, like.

It was it just looks like a different team to me.

And so then the comeback game six, like we lost game six in game five, like game there was zero percent chance we.

Were going to Cleveland and win game six.

So we had already lost game six in game five, and then we end up in game seven and t lou game plan is to make me beat them, and I had the game of my life and ultimately.

I was there. I was at that game. I was at that game.

But you but you know, like something about coaching, you know that is like when you got when you got the control of your team and they respect you and they they trust you, Like you know, you have five frees a halftime and then not one player come in crying about like that's the game plan, Like you know, like it can make shots, but we keep stepping claytrom you know, making seven eight threes and we keep the bar in their hands, like that's what we want to do.

Like and Jr. Like I said, Jr.

Smith was huge in that third quarter coming out then, but like it just and you had to balan the best game of your life, you know.

But you know what's crazy though, to Luke is that game.

And it was a mixture of that game and then also KD coming and so the mixture of that game and me like.

Shooting the lights out scoring that wheel how well.

I scored thirty one or thirty three or something like that, thirty five and we only had eighty nine points.

I have thirty five.

And so me being the player that I am, which is seventy percent cerebral, KD coming in, which means I have to kind of take more of a backseat anyway, right, But at the same time, that's coming on the heels of me just having thirty five and we lost, and so now my mindset ends up turning two, Well, they want me to take this shot because I just had thirty five in game seven and we lost. So then I stopped shooting right like, because I'm like, oh, they

But we ain't win.

So I'm like that what that's the mindset they want me to shoot, So I'm not gonna shoot because their game planning to make me shoot, So why would I shoot? And then it led down to this whole path for like then being like afraid to shoot, like and losing my confidence in my shot and like hesitating and then

But now you shoot and.

Turning the TLU telling them don't let me shoot the knight.

God damn.

Man, this is this is therapeutic man.

This is therapeutic man. That was That's a hell of a moment, a full circle moment. That's hell therapeutic man. I'm glad t LIU see we got that. It's the hardest part. We got out there right.

Now we can go off of that.

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So I have to ask this question, and speaking of that game seven, you know, I've heard all of the the stories, and quite honestly, I've ignored them because that's just a dark moment in my life. But there was some story about you collecting money that you left in the ceiling or.

Some let me in on this story.

I need to know more because next time we played in a meaningful series, I'm going to that locker room the night before and taking that money.

So after we won game five, so you know all the owners and you know the GM. Everybody's in the locker room. They celebrating what everybody's happy. So I go in the locker room and say, everybody, give.

Me two hundred dollars.

It's like what what I was like, I'm gonna take it, wrap it up. I'm put in the ceiling and we come back and get our money for game seven. And so where I got that from was from uh, you know, Doc Rivers. We played the Lakers in two thousand and nine.

Right, So Ship our pocket, you know what I'm saying.

And so Lebron they throwing champagne Solebron's at lou where's that money at man?

Man, I went up there. It's missing all my We just want a championship.

He's wanted by getting great is hilarious because that is exactly how he is to every that's crazy.

He progal.

I mean, I mean genderous too. I'm just staying. But like he want his money back. Yeah, yeah, he earned that.

He need his cut pocketing too.

In the middle of popping ship, I used to want a championship and you asked what the two mons?

I don't forget, but I was just about to say.

But interestingly enough, it's less about him being frugal and more about like, dude, don't miss anything, Like yeah, they don't miss.

Nothing nothing, man. And like I said, him and Kyrie like that they were special. That that uh, that final, they were special, like saying game five, both of those guys having forty and just like I said, and once we got to game seven, like Brons said, give me the game seven and I'll do the rest, you know, and so but bad bad man.

Yeah, speaking of Game seven.

I mean, everybody talk about the block and then obviously Kyrie shot uh, but there is there another play that you feel people miss that helped secure that title.

Kevin Love.

When he switched out on step he sat down.

Hey, dude, he said, that's one of the all some men sitt downs in NBA history.

Dude, that was crazy.

Because it's crazy because it wasn't supposed to happen.

So you know, like you know what I'm saying, I don't want Love on step I don't want that.

I'm happened and break down with that.

He ended up on Steph and I mean, k Love, I give him crap and he sat down, he sat down. He got it four or five different moves like you know, step into a tough shot. But that was a big play. I think we might have been up three or maybe four. I'm not maybe thirty three yeah, three yeah, big stock. And I think that's when Bron got the rebound got fouled, and then we thought, no, no, got to stop. Kyrie went coach and Coach Stewart Lebron and you bout him.

He was that's crazy because we watched we seen like, oh, this is it, like we have y'all stepp about to tie.

This is it? Like we got the height so it's over and he was moved.

But I think it's somebody was thought he was gonna lay it down. Yeah.

I thought he was gonna.

Lay Yeah, step too for sure, because like I mean, he was there.

He was there.

He boomed like damn, okay, Kate Love. But I was nervous. I was nervous.

That was That was the moment, dude, I thought he was. I thought Steph was gonna drive because he had got a lay up. I feel like the play before on the drive and it was enough time, you know what I mean.

But that switch was like.

Okay, Steph getting to the step back and shout out, shout out to the brill and great Kevin Love. Uh you know, we shut down, stop it, sit down, and a couple of people l a that sit you. Russ and Drew keep going, norm you know what hold on?

Nor was in some the show talking about defense.

Just keep talking about come on, what happened all offense now?

T Lou.

And Matt barrs.

That's it.

That's all y'all got this loom loom loom, come on, Peyton Watson, Jack Levine.

But but Zach Levine and if you don't sack, don't play no. Also, I mean in that whole group you just named, how many all defensive teams into that group? Man, we always get all right back. So we're gonna move on there, We're gonna move on. We're gonna move on. We's not gonna speak and U c l A like they defense you, baby, We're gonna see when that matchup happened. Y'all don't want to play us, y'all. It's it's nice weather where y'all go to school. Don't y'all don't want to play us. Don't do that.

It's crazy because T Lou was just saying they decided to switch play and step stuff, and the way they were guarding us, it was then like, man, and even a little bit before that, like we struggled a bit with OKC, but then we end up coming back and winning that series. And then it obviously reared his ugly head against the Calves in a great year, but teams were starting to figure out how to guard us, and so you know, at that point, we got to figure out what's next we go sign KD.

What's your reaction to that? T Lou when you see that.

It's over, you know saying, I mean, like you said, we thought we figured y'all out, you know what I'm saying.

We went back the next year.

It could have went your way again, but like we thought, we had the blueprint on how to guard and how to attack, you know, how to attack y'all offense, because y'all was always top five in defense, you know what I mean, A big shout out to Ron Adams, you know what I'm saying, Like, yes, but when y'all got KD, it just made it so.

I mean, come on, you blitzed them, and now you got Clay.

And KD all the week's out, you short, you got Ego dollar for the law, got Klay and and KD in the corners, Like it just became Yeah, it just became.

Too hard, Like it just it was too hard too.

To really like I said, match up offensively, and y'all was always great defensive team.

So once y'all got KD, I mean, it was like I.

Mean, and and he can get his own money, you know what I mean, Like he can get his own money too, that was so that's what made it so unfair.

You blitz KD and now you got stepping plate. But it was just like it was just too much.

That was interesting because that's what ended up happening. Then teams was like, oh, we're gonna switch here, We're going to switch, and so we would run our stuff. It's literally high our offense.

We go.

We would run our stuff and either KD getting spot up shots off the off because team's blissing and now I'm kicking them, or getting a lot to D or the team started switching it and then we just get a ball a K and KG one on one if you double, if you double, we hitting steph. All right, So then they start doubling off me and then that's where we start doing the handbags. You throw it to me, I'm catching, I'm handing off, I'm catching. Im faking, I'm going to the cup. I got Andre on the live now,

It just it was too much playing on the Lakers winning the championship. With those two Laker teams playing against Golden State losing in the finals, beating them in the finals. Where does those Lakers teams stack up against the Cleveland Cavaliers championship team, the Golden State Warriors championship team with KD You're probably the best person to give some insight because you played on the Lakers and won a championship with them.

Man, I just don't see nobody like beating the Lakers team. Like said when they got Kadie, I gotta go back and reassess it.

Just the why. I'm just saying that the biggest factor, like a shot, like you know what I mean, Shack was just me. You know what I'm saying.

You can't stop them, like you can't guard them, you know what I mean? And you had you know, God rest in peace. When I got Mutumbo, like I said, defensive player of the year. You know, Shock averaged thirty thirty six whatever and fourteen that series or something.

But like I mean, just wasn't non answer for.

Shock, Like okay, say you know you had you double team Kobe or Kobe had a rough night, but they're just there's no answer for Shack.

And you could fathom. But now you got three centers playing the game.

So now your third and four string center and playing against shock because everybody else don't cut out or in foul trouble, and now you're in a bonus with you know, six minutes of go in every quarter. Like it just I just don't see an answer for Shack. And that's like, that's what people don't talk about and understand is his dominance was was you know, unmatched.

I agree, And then you get that backup center, the third string center name shot blockers. They not you know what I mean, They may be a little different, So it just kind of softened up the defense. But you know, I always say, is you know, I pull favoritetism to our era just because of you know, you got Shaq. Shaq was just a dominant player. Kobe was super dominant. But then all of the other players on the team were high skilled, cerebral basketball players that could play basketball.

Mean, as opposed to.

You know, a lot of the modern day basketball is more so adjustments from a coaching standpoint. You know, the coaches have to make the adjustments because I think the players are young, right, and so there's a there's a gap of veterans to young guys, and there's a learning curve that feels like that's why y'all got so many damn coaches over there on the sidelines to try to help.

Is that the case?

I mean, it's a lot of player development going on, you know.

So I do think, like I said, these player development groups that you put together you see on every team, I think it's very important because you got guys coming in nineteen twenty twenty one and don't really know how to play the game, you know. So like our guy we got Sean Fine, he's amazing, like you know when he's him, and you know Dante Jones and you know Jeremy Castle.

Cookie Boat coming to Connor.

All the guys they put in work every day like Chris Hogean and you see it paying off, like you know, just with our young guy Kyle Jones, like he's got better and better and better, like you know, So it's important. So I think when you're drafting these young guys, you got to have guys that it's will to be in the gym, do the you know, the hard grinding work every single day and then you know, mold and get these players to where they want to be, and so I think it is very important.

I just want to say I just want to say something.

About I don't want to talk about Lakers. I got to say.

Something about that. That's gotta say something about that.

I found it interesting because you know, it's a very interesting one. I'll tell you why it's very interesting because, quite honestly, Shaquille O'Neill is my favorite player of all time. So it's a little challenging for me to be like, yeah, somebody gonna stop shot, because it's very hypocritical to my childhood beliefs and like what I like, how I actually feel.

So it's very hypocritical to me to say that.

And quite honestly, I don't think any of us could have stopped shot, just like no one else in Shacks of Eric could stop shot.

I just don't think that was happening.

But I do think we then posed some challenges on the other side for Shack that you just can't stand in the pain against us, big fella, like you know, I'm a again, I am the biggest Shack there you're going to find.

But you can't just stand in the pain against us, like we're going to exploit that.

So what y'all gonna do defensively and then at you know, also depends on the time that we playing, because you know, when y'all were playing that couldn't play zone in the NBA. Then obviously now you can play some zone, but you couldn't play zone then you know what I'm saying, So that that also changes it to where we can really get that shock.

But in saying that, no, I.

Think I don't really have much of an argument just on the sake of it being shocked.

So I'm gonna let y'all have that just on the sake of.

It being the big diesel.

Because you're right though, it ain't nobody stopping Shack.

And it actually pisses me off man when people don't try to get shocked the credit that he deserves, like and and like, don't talk about shocking the light that Shack is like.

The most dominant player we've ever seen ever.

Hey hey, hey, hey, that is one of the biggest hacks in summer basketball history.

Hey, t Lou, t Lou, remember how mad we used.

To get that Dante dude for playing and following people in the gym? Hey, Jam, you see nothing like this bro, you see nothing like this.

You shoot, he stays see there you go.

That made my heart warm, Like if you if you ain't all defenders are hacks, camras, hack.

Stranger.

I don't even follow that much reference.

Here working on.

Okay, another hack, another hat, definitely a hat.

Teaching me aways, dunte teaching me away, definitely a hat.

I'm sorry, but happenings going on.

Nah, So yeah, I'll give y'all that, although I don't think. I don't think y'all team was as good as ours. But in a matchup, nobody stopping shock.

But I'll tell you what, you got to come out that paint, big fella, and you might just be looking crazy.

That's all I'm gonna say.

Yeah, No, I mean yeah, talent wise, but like when you got the two best players in the world on the same team, like you know what I'm saying, Like, okay, we I mean only team I saw even do a halfway decent job on shack, like I said, was San Antonio, Like you know, the front and back with David Robinson and Tim Duncan was still yeah, he's still average twenty seven, twenty eight, you know what I'm saying.

But like it's just man. It's just him and cold man like that.

I mean, Shack could move. Shack could move. He wasn't no stiff. He wasn't he wasn't stiff, but he wasn't a stiff.

But he wasn't moving like Shaq had been moving.

What years Shack started getting them later was in in l a. He wasn't moving like that, no more man Shock Shock getting heavy Stack Shock started rehabbing on company times.

Sack, Shack wasn't moving like that.

You think about the three stops after that. When he went to Miami, of course, he.

Was completely dumb moving in Miami, Miami, Miami year one, he was straight. Year two when we gotta stop, I gotta stop. This is gonna come off like hey, no shock and that'll break my heart. So we gotta stop.

Phoenix cland you know with the Lakers he was still.

He was still dominant, but again coming to move them puppies on the on the on the wing with KD and Stephan, putting them in pens with Clay Us.

He wasn't moving, he wasn't moving like that. That's all I'm saying.

You gotta have guy, you gotta have guys. That's gonna get through the screens for sure.

Kobe will chase over the screen. Let's see t Lougan now out of screen. Uh, because he had to come out.

He had to worry about I'm getting through the screens.

Uh, playing against that dude, because you know, but you know what, it was crazy though back in those days, and we're talking about that men b Shaw.

You know it was automatic because back in those days you had a four and five on each block, you know what I mean. So when the ball hit the wing, whether it was a picking roll or not, it was automatically in an ice stands because it's gonna be it's gonna be a big on the block.

And that's what made it easier to guard back then. You know what I'm saying.

You know, you have a four on the block of five on the week's side block cross screen. When the ball hit the wing, you automatically jump into no middle stands and set it down whether it's picking and so that was crazy. That that was real crazy, but it was easy. But you know it made you a lot easier for sure.

Switching beats to the Clippers.

You talked about Norman Pou and how he stepped up this season to become pretty much a go to player on this team. Talk a little bit about Norm and you know who does Norm game remind you of in your playing days?

Okay, let's let's start with I mean with Norm, like just to see the work he puts in every single day, you know, Bead and Dre like, I mean, he works.

Too much for me, Like I said to me, I mean, he works hard and he's.

Wanted to be a starter, you know, having PG and having Kawhi, you know it was hard for him to start, you know, but this man works every single day since I've been here, Like just seeing the amount of work he puts in, and you know.

It's it's slogan's UTG.

I understand the grind, and he grinds every day, like working on everything. And so for him to get this opportunity to play the way he has, like, I'm just happy for him because you know, he puts in like he puts in like real, real work, you know, And so I'm just happy to see him. Like half a year, he's having people start to recognize what he can do, you know, as a starter. So that's really good as

Uh just that Bill.

You know, he's still more norm he I teach because he's I say, six foot, but he's sixth three years.

If he straighten his legs.

But I would say, like you're saying, like Michael Wave, like you can score at all levels, man, just instant offense. And he did it last year fourth off the bench, you know, average sixteen points off the bench later league in fourth quarter threes percentage wise last year.

You know, he can just you know, cut in. He's an instant score. So I would say more so like.

Like Michael waive I, but I how to you know, say anybody.

Y'all got James playing at And when I say y'all, I mean obviously coach, but you know he's doing it. But James playing at an all star level this year back looking like the James that we all have grown to know, you know, going through them battles with you know them Houston teams. Like that's the James that he's looking like. Now, what's it been like? James once said, I am the system. You know what I'm saying.

I am a system, Like and.

And seeing him play this year, it's like you as a coach and y'all staff has put him in all his pet sets that he liked to run and have twisted some things to you know, sets that you you've incorporated, but putting him in those situations that he liked to get to that he's thrived in and became James Harden as we know it.

What's that adjustment been?

Like?

What was those conversations like to go to him and be like, all right, listen, obviously PG gone Kawhi out and taking a team that most people seeing like dang, PG left Kawhi out, this team is gonna be bad and got this team rolling.

And he playing at that level.

Just what was the kind of the building up to that and you know, just the adjustments that you've had to make and getting him back in that role.

Yeah, Well a good thing for us is he's been a customer play that way, you know.

So we got him last year he more so just trying to adapt and you know, he was a playmaker and you know ran our you know with.

Kawhi and PG. Like you said, he didn't come in.

I think James averaged like eight or nine shots a game last year, you know what I mean, and he just kind of just you know, got everybody involved picking choosing spots. But this year it was a different conversation, like you said, with Kawhi being out, with PG being gone, like we need him to turn back to clock, like you know, the same position was in here to carry that burden.

You know, offensively.

And you know, our front office has done a good job of acquiring Derrick Jones Junior, who's a defender. You know, Chris was a defender, and you put those guys around James where he doesn't have to, you know, guard every single night. And now he could just focus and lock in on scoring the basketball and making guys better.

And he's flourished, like I said, and he's used in the accustomer to this role.

But like it started in training camp, like it was a hard training it was a throwback training camp, you know, like mess up on the line six or ten, you know, but no every day And I give him credit, you know, like he did it every single day whether he liked it or not. And that's what kind of got us

And like I said, he's been great for us, like you said, all year long.

No, I think I think it's dope to just see him back at that level and where I give you credit and him, it's like.

I didn't even know he still had that level in him, you know what I'm saying.

Like to either get back to this level, it's special.

It's special to watch.

But one question I also want to ask you is and coaching bron and then coaching James. I always say, obviously the way they went about it two completely different ways, but talk about how both of them can control the entire pace of a game and having a guy like that that every time down.

The court it's capable of getting you a good shot.

Because I don't think people are understanding this league, there's not your favorite player can't just do that, Like there's only a select few of guys that can make that happen in this league, And obviously you know, now having James playing at the level of doing that and then having Bron, just what are the similarities in them controlling the games and then what are the differences?

And that's what That's one thing, like you said, is why I think he should be an All Star this year or just things he's done so far and just making guys better. But like you said, to generate a good shot every time down you know, whether you make it or not, you know, to make mislead, but it's a good shot every single time for itself or for his teammates. And just look at all the people when you talk about him and Bron, like how many people there got paid?

Yes, you know what I'm.

Saying, that's what should still be watching James cars.

I'm saying a lot of people the same with Bron. Like you know, they've made people better, They've gotten guys paid, they gotten coaches paid, like Bron got me paid. But like just to control a game and knowing that you're gonna get a good shot every time down the floor, like you just don't find it anywhere, you know, And so people don't don't respect that part of the game where you got a guy that can generate a good shot every single time.

When the last time moles Gob came and watched you in bron Cars two weeks ago, that's hilarious. Man, you're one of the best coaches in this league. You know, we've said it before on this show. We say it all the time as far as in game adjustment. Just talk a little bit about, you know, your philosophy around in game adjustments. And then when did you notice, like, hey, bro, I'm kind of nice at this coaching thing.

What did that hit? Man?

Well, it started back, like I said, you know, Doc and Dan Yange, you know, gave me my first opportunity. And it started when I played for Doc in two thousand and three in Orlando and he told me said, listen, Telu, when you're done playing, you can come coach.

I was like, man, I didn't coaching, Like, hey, you.

Know, coach, it wasn't me, you know, But when I finished two nine, like that's all I knew. And so I give a lot of credits to Doctor because, like, you know, when we lost a tough game or hard game, you know how I should go back and sit in the back of the room. He did media and just listen to how he handled himself and how he handled

But it's it's hard, you know, it's hard beating. It's a it's a hard job. You know. As a player, you know, you just kind of basically worry about yourself.

You know.

As a coach, you got to worry about everybody, the assistance, the medical, the you know, the the equipment manager, the players, and so when you lose a game, you know, you got to go back and look at yourself and like, man, what could I have done different?

What could I have done better? And you know, like it was a tough grind, but I learned a lot along the.

Way to be in this position and putting a lot of hard work to be in this position. There's a lot of great coaches out there, and so just to be mentioned, you know, in the same breath with a lot of these guys, you know, it means a lot.

You know, especially being a young coach.

You said something that I actually wanted to do address anyway. You just said it. You said, Lebron get a lot of guys paid. He got me paid.

And I wanted to ask you about that because coming in, obviously you take over a team, you're going to win a championship, and a lot of people knew you were great on what you brought in that situation that even the coach that you know, you were assistant under, couldn't bring. And everybody just knew like there was a specific thing that was going to be needed. Nobody felt that he had it, No disrespect to him, but everybody felt you had.

It in saying that you come in, you take over a team.

Obviously Bron's playing, and Bron is always going to get much deserved credit that he gets. But you said, Bron get a lot of us. Brian get a lot of guys paid. He got me paid. A lot of people tried to say that initially, like, oh, man, he was coaching Bron, of course he gonna, I mean, to win a championship, as if that's just a given. You then started to be known as, and rightfully so, as one

I mean, the outside noise really didn't bother me because I don't have social media and I don't want to get into all that.

Everybody has, but he really helped me.

But the biggest thing for me is I sat down with him, Kyrie and k Love and I told him, this is what I need from you guys, Like if I want to win, if we want to win, this is what I need. And I give those three guys a lot of credit. But when people say that, you know, Bron's been in the league for twenty one years, he had no championships, So I mean they act like he won twenty one Like you know what I'm saying, he won.

And so that enough right there, meant a lot to me.

And so I think, you know, once you know he went to the Lakers, then I had a chance, and I go to the Clippers, I think, and coach that team.

We go to the conference finals when Kawhi gets hurt. You know.

I think that's when I finally got my respect, you know, once I you know, my first year with the Clippers, we go to the conference finals and I was able to get out from under Lebron's umbrella. You know, but it shouldn't be like that, like you said, And I know that he's brought a lot to me, you know, as a coach, made me better because he saw how execution,

Man, it's never late.

Never like respect everybody's time, respect everybody what they're doing. And like I said, without him, like I said, I wouldn't be who I am today because he made you better. Because when I come in present, you know, a scout reporter, how we want to do something, I know that he's not gonna miss a beat, and I know I got to be sharp on what I'm doing every single day, every single night, because.

He doesn't miss a beat, you know.

So he's made me better for sure, So I'm not I'm always gonna give him the credit because like he's made me better of who I am and so hopefully one day he could say, you know what, T Lou was one of the guys got me over the top when I got back to Cleveland, you know.

And so you know, I give, like I said, all.

The credit to him, like I said, Kyrie, k Loves be at a sacrifice. You know, you got to think kay Love came from Minnesota where he was the man.

And twenties.

Yeah, thirties and twenties, asked k Love. But hey, man, could you know being a third option? You know, but I'm gonna I'm gonna feature you when you're on the floor out of time outs, different situations for him to buy in like that and to win a championship, like he just says a lot about them and who they are too. But I give, like I said, all the credit to Bron but for making me a better coach, you know, every step of the way.

No, I think that's dope, and I and I and I respect it because again, to have the influence, to have the impact that Bron has obviously you know, it's a great platform, but then you have to be capable of living in like on that platform, like you can't because if you're if you're not capable, you get swallowed up fast and anything that he's involved.

In, and it's it was it was like the same thing with Rich. I think the same thing with Math.

You know, where all the guys that has grown with him in a certain aspect, it's like, oh, they're only this because of him. But it's like, nah, hey, there were some people along the way that weren't able to take advantage of that opportunity, right b They don't get to the to the situation without being special anyway, you know.

And you to see you kind of break that same stigma in your own way.

Like Rich, like you said, what he's built where Math is built you know without ue to go on and build, you know, but it's all like I said, it's it's stem from Lebron. But just because I give you a million dollars until you to invest it, to make the right investments, you know what I mean, Like I could be broken two years or I can make I can have ten million in two years.

Yeah, So like what you do with it.

And that's what I say about Lebron because you know when they when they fired coach Black, they could have went with anybody and had to you know, had the confidence in me, you know, to say, you know what, No, you know, I like Tevo, you know, And so that's that's big, you know, thirty eight years old to you know, step in there and you know, feel some big shoes because, like I said, Coach Black went to the NBA Finals a year before, and when I took over halfway through

Team in the East.

You know.

You know that was a lot that came with it too, you know.

So but like I said, for those guys who had a belief in me to do it, you know, it says a lot.

So I'm happy about that.

One thousand percent. And just speaking of guys that you've done.

With your relationship with Steve Bomer, how has how has it been you.

Know and working with him, uh, you know, just the type of.

Owner that he is, the resources that he's bringing to the team and building that incredible arena. You know, and I obviously the only other owner that you've coached under, it's a head coach, it's obviously Dan Gilbert, But just what is it that Steve has brought as an owner of that team and it being a joy to coach, you know, and having an ownership group like that.

You know, what he's brought is family.

Like you know, when you get a chairman that you know that really cares about your well being, your family's well being, the team, everybody works in his organization. When you get somebody really actually cares, it's genuine. You can tell when somebody's bullshit, you know what I mean. But like when you can see when it's genuine, you know, like when COVID first hit and we were in a bubble, you know, in Black Lives Matter, and you know we started that slogan and trying to you know, help our

But it wasn't about that. It was about us, you know.

And so like this man crazy story, which Ryan westkus something we gotta tell you all the time, but it's for me.

It's huge because.

During the season a couple of years ago, he said, you know, what, what are you passionate about? I said, I'm passionate about my family, and I'm passionate about or I'm from, which is Mexico, Missouri.

He said. I said, I want to do something special there, but I really don't know what to do.

Like you come from a small town, eleven thousand people, not a lot of money in the community. So he was like, I'm gonna go take a trip with you one time and I'm gonna take a look at it. I was like, yeah, right, whatever. So summer hits he calls me, Hey, I'm gonna go to Mexico and I was like, what do you mean? He's like, we're gonna take it trip to Mexico. I give you three days, pick one. So by game a day long story short, we fly Pride on this plane. We fly in the

A long time.

The seventh bitchest man in the world, you know what I'm saying, Like, that's just how genuine he is. And then so we started a program, my C two C program, which is credile to career, com member to community. And he donated three and a half million dollars the first year, which it was it was a five year plan to raise ten million dollars.

In the first year and a half we raised eighteen million.

But like he put me in contact with pri he donated three and a hal I have a million like and so he's just been put me on the right path to do a lot of things. And like I said, we've changed Mexico so much right now, but we've still got a lot more to do.

But just like said, his vision and likes it.

Every single day before the game comes in for ten minutes, checks on me how you doing. You know, just so positive and he's like that with everybody, like it's in it's genuine, you can feel it. And so that's like, I mean, he's one of the best people I've met in my life. Man, He's unbelievable. He's incredible. That's incredible, man, shout out to Bomber. Absolutely, that's fire.

Do you had a lot of interactions with mister Bamba.

Yeah, he when he started the Baller Vision Clipper Vision.

Yeah.

Yeah, he's been great.

I mean, you know, one passionate about the game, love talking about the game. I say, even for you know, Clipper alumni. You know, we got kind of like this starting to build a once a Clipper, always a Clipper kind of fraternity, which is cool and bringing a lot

You know what I mean, He's been about the.

Entire city, bro, Like every park, every inner city, Like the amount of people that shout his name on the foundation side, and the way he's helped, you know, mobilize this community is like, you know, that was like my dream.

But I ain't got Steve Bamer money, you know what I'm saying.

But it's just good to see like and it's good to see the Clippers like care about the inner city and care about La. And then that's why you're starting to see that Clipper fan base you know, grow in La for real and then and then and then t little since you've been in La.

Uh.

You know, you heard a lot about Kawhi and his health this past year. The critics have been super loud. How are you how My question is how excited are you that he will return?

And just kidding, I mean, I thought she was going to give me a date.

I thought.

I was like, how excited are you return?

I'm very excited, man.

It's just you know, the big thing, MBD, Like I said, you was one of the baddest point guards in the League.

When I talk about guys.

Like hard for me to guard, it was always you, gilbelarenas Ai, you know what I'm saying, And you was And people don't get a chance to, you know, to see your full career because like, so you got injured, you know, but that doesn't mean you weren't put in the work. That doesn't mean you wouln't want to play, That doesn't mean you wanted to be on the floor.

Hurt, you know.

So, like it's just hard for the criticism to come his way when I know I see him every day, grinding every day in the weight room, grind on the court every single day, and it's just like it's just unfortunate that, you know, he can't control what he has going on, Like he just can't control it.

If he could, he would, like you.

Know, so it's hard to see all the criticism League gets you know, because he's hurt, because he's not playing. Because if you got a guy that's hurt and they're not putting the work in to get better and get back, that's totally different. This man is grinding every single day, you know, every single day all summer, every summer to get to where you want to get to.

And it's just unfortunate. Like you said, there's times where he.

Just can't control it, you know, And so that's just the part that's hurtful because he's not gonna play down. He's not a guy that doesn't care, you know what I'm saying. He does care, and that's what people don't understand, you know, from that outside. And it's just tough man.

And you see former players that been through this, itswing like, ah, like, man, don't get me stuck.

They not real, They not real because you got you gotta you gotta really go through injuries.

I mean, TLUI.

You remember when I was hurt playing in Vegas and you know, trying to get back, Like man, you're trying to get back and then next thing, you know, you may overcompensate a little bit. You may lift one or two reps in some tear you know what I mean. So you're never right, Like once you get hurt, you are never right because you're never one hundred percent of

Tired, meter you'reware and tear and all that.

So, you know, I think you know a lot of times fans don't understand that the mental part of it, the hard work part of it. But like if somebody's not on the court, it's definitely not the result of them not working.

You just think about the organization, you know, as a whole, Like you think they would continue to giving fifty million dollars if he wasn't trying to get back, Like if he was a lazy you know what I'm saying, lazy dude, they wouldn't like, Okay, all right, cool, you heard you done, We're done.

You know what I'm saying, but like this man dedicated every single day man to try to be on the floor.

And like I said, it's painful to watch because, like I said, he wants it so bad man, like you know, and he's doing everything and so I'm happy he's getting close man.

And for me, like I've been hurt a lot too.

I had three knee surgeries, micro fracture and sometimes just it's the mental part, like can I do it?

You know what I mean? Can I Can I get over this hurdle? Can I do it?

You know?

Can I get back to being who I was? And people don't understand that that man, it's a grind, you know, but he's been grind.

Like I said, I'm happy for him.

Fun Guy is one of my favorites.

Man. You know I heard him rapping before. Uh really, yeah, I have fun Guy in the studio.

He made me mad, he make it mad at me.

But you know, I have fun Guy in the studio. He got he got bars, he got bars, he's fitting.

People don't know. People don't know.

I was gonna ask you, uh one last two Kauhi questions because you know, my fun got there. I need a Kawhi. I need a Kawhi Ism for sure. And then the second question is described the similarities and the differences between coaching the Kawhi and coaching the Lebron.

Kawhi is a funny one.

So me and my boy, but he cousins, that's and so I was mad at him one day and you know, he kept going back and forth. I said, man, Bookie, keep doing this. I was mad at Boogie right, And so Kawhi came up to me and.

Said, man, he's he could play.

He's good. He's good though. I said, yeah, I know. I said, he's getting on my nerves whatever, whatever he said. I said, I'm just tired of looking at him.

Whatever he said, just don't look at him, like, don't look at him.

Leave him on the court, don't look at him.

Because you know, he's one of the you know, motality center has been around, you know, and so we got into it one day.

But that's my guy.

But Kawhi is.

Like, you figure it out, but good right here, you figure out what you got.

Yeah. Yeah.

And the comparison between like him and Bron, like I said, the hard work, like you said, is it's lined up just like this, like both putting in like you said, the work, you know, every single day, like grind every single day to get better and just think about you know, where they come in their career. Like Kawhi when he first got the league, he wasn't a shooter, you know, and he expanded he was a he was a corner shooter.

Then he became better at the wings, you know what I'm saying.

Then every year he's gotten better and better than he's a forty three, a you know, three point shooter. You know, he was able to take steps of being a post player getting better and getting better.

Same Lebron came in the league. He wasn't a shooter.

Now you know what I'm saying, shoot forty three to work in and so they remind me a lot of each other, like I said, when it comes to that work ethic and you know, and putting that work in to get to where they want to get to.

Yeah, he's funny.

I mean Bron's funny, but is funny because he don't do a lot of talking, but when he talks, So that's what that's what makes it crazy.

I love it.

Our coaching staff.

This year, we added Jerry Stackhouse to take over our defense.

One thing that I found that he does. Is he get these grades out.

It's funny because he had something on the he has something on the grade today. I had a conversation with him. I'm like, Stack, man, like you you great, and me on this based on how you great somebody else. But I intentionally did this, like I'm covering two right here.

And he like, yeah, but you're supposed to do this.

I said, Stack, but you ain't gonna tell Steph Curry to drive to the rim because someone else drives better. He's gonna shoot the three. So we had this whole conversation and we went at it for fifteen minutes. It was great, me and him, just me and him. It was incredible.

Y'all have.

Brought JVG in who and you know, I've heard a lot about just kind of his approach and you know what he's brought to the staff and defense looking incredible. Is there something that he's brought that you would say has been different than maybe y'all were doing, or different approach than than than what you have before.

Just bringing his coaching style.

Which is more of an old school coaching style than kind of the coaching style of what coaches do today.

Well, one is bought some He brought us some purpose defensively. You know a lot of people just go out there and play defense.

And like I said, I always hate playing against you because you always read it.

You know, you know what's coming with Ato. You take him over there.

I got this, now, y'all switch you blow the whole play up like and at Iq. But he's bought a purpose defensively. And if you look at our team, like if you start James and Norman Powell and give normal hard time, but they're not really defenders. And so if you can get a top five defensive team in this league, you know, starting those to y'all, we're small, we're little,

And you don't see people in the corners, you know what I mean.

Or if you go to the basket, you spend the next guy's right there and we'll figure out the on the backside. He's made this more aggressive, like if you close to the ball, no matter who your guard and who it is, if you close, go get it, and like you generating so many turnovers. But he's bought a purpose, he's bought a mindset to our team. You know, I come in early, you know, every day, and I come at five o'clock in the morning.

He's out here. You know, he's passionate about what.

He does every day, Like he takes it hard, like we win by but thirty seven last night and you talked with one hundred and seven points, he's pissed off, like he's mad. You know what I'm saying, Like come in, I talked to he's we just did fishing gain the right way, you know, first Street again, you know what I mean. So, but he's passionate about what he does. He brings that that mentality, like no nonsense, like when he's when he's on the floor, were going through defense.

It ain't no message around, you know what I mean. He's locked in.

And so it's been really good for us to shout out the Stockhouse too, because he's done a good job. And I played with Stack in Washington when we played with Jordan together, you know, so I love Stack.

You know that was a fifty one game.

D Hey, I was guarding. Hill was not guarding.

They put Stacey offman, you know what I'm saying. It was crazy about that day they I looked it up the other day when you know he had fifty one points. Why I look it up?

Man?

I played eighteen minutes. I didn't score.

Hey, bro, you gotta watch the tape because me and you are talking like you gotta watch the game because we just having a conversation like oh, I'm not gonna help. You're like, well, I ain't getting the ball, Like well, ships wish we had some popcorn to watch this.

Game.

Right.

The reason why he was mad that game is because the game before we played New Jersey Nets and they put Kenya Martin on him and like he struggled to score, you know, and at this point thirty nine, Yeah, it was like all you gotta do is put length in that lettericism home. He can't score, you know, bigger six eight, you know, he can't score on those guys.

Whatever.

So the next night we played Charlotte and they, you know, put lee lines a couple of guys on defense.

Y'all had, y'all had, Yeah, David Wesley.

He got swords.

J Brown, you know what I'm saying. But yeah, he was on one. He was mad because you know, Jersey.

You had an opportunity this summer to coach uh the Olympics.

You know, it's a part of the staff, uh Steve.

And I'll be honest, I was one of the main people. I mean, guy, I'm saying, I don't understand how in the hell Jason Tatum's not getting any minutes.

I didn't understand it. Obviously y'all going to win.

Uh. But and looking back at that situation once, there's something that could have been done differently to where Jason Tatum because now he got this vengeance against us, and I'm not sure he got that same vengeance against y'all. T lou but now he got against us.

But we don't really need right.

That's my little cousin, you know, So it's from Saint Louis. His dad is about first cousin. Yeah, that's my My functions in Mexico when he was younger. So that's my cousin. So feel bad for him. But you know, we talked every single day. But the biggest thing for me, like I'm gonna go against the coaching decision. If I'm a coach, I'm a stand in, you know, whatever the he coaching decision they make. You were you and heard me say I disagree, you know, not to not to anybody, because

You know, he was professional. He didn't try to go home.

And like I said, as a guy who's been first team or NBA three years in a row, you know what I mean, coming off winning the championship, you know, won a gold medal back in you know, twenty one, Like I said, it was it was tough for him, you know, And so I just try to talk to him. I just try to be positive with him, keeping the right headspace, and like said, I'm just.

Glad he got through it.

I'm glad he got a gold medal, like you said, and he was able to play. Like I said that last game in the gold medal game, so, but I'll never be one of those guys where he's family or not. If I'm if I'm you know, in the you know, that's what it is. And so but I am probably like I said, a little jay, how he handled himself and how I conducted itself throughout the you know, the hard time and adversity of what he had to go through.

Now I think I think that's dope. Do you ultimately, I don't think Steve's going to do it forever? Do you hope to ultimately one day take that over and be the head coach of the USA team? Is it something you want to do again?

Yeah?

I mean I would like that opportunity because you know, as a player, you know, you grew up want to be on the Olympic team.

Of course I wasn't good enough.

You know what I mean, but you know, like that's what that was your dream, you know, winning the ship, you know, being you know, Olympic, NBA to represent your country.

But now I happen to doing this capacity has been great.

You know.

So to be able to you know, one day be the head coach if that was possible, and be able to be a young black man to you know, win a gold medal for your country.

I think it says a lot about our youth, about you know.

He is looking up to us, and you know seeing that, you know, young black coach, you know, winning a gold medal for your country and represent your country.

There's no better feeling than that.

If I'm still playing in twenty twenty eight, me and Draymond coming to coach.

Ah, you coaching because you can't move no more. If I'm still playing, Hey, hey, I'm next.

Year, I'm getting invited to go to State Warriors training camp. What do you think my chances are of making the team if.

I'm in shape?

Well, don't guard staph.

I'm not messing with stuff.

Yeah, how do you now?

Love it?

You gotta be forty two now, Yeah, I'm like thirty eight forty two.

A wow, I don't know. I'm like thirty seven forty three. You know, I don't know.

Love.

I'm telling Jamond, Hey, you think I'm playing, watch me make that fucking team next year?

Back to business.

You watch Steph Curry go off in the final minutes of the Olympic Championship game against France one. How did it feel getting the gold medal in that fashion? And like talk about the experience now, you know, coach is Steph uh in the Olympics.

To finally be on this team, I felt like Bron, like, you know what I'm saying, working for so many times it came up short, you know, but it was it was really good.

You know.

The thing that I like the most take me out of it is that just Katie, Steph and Broun, like, you know, three guys, and it's like saying, our generation like to be able to play together on that level, you know, the represent your country, to win a gold metal together. I think that was one of the coolest moments I've seen, you know, just seeing those three guys come together.

So that was great.

And then my time, like I said, I've always dreamed of being, you know, in the Olympics, you know, represent my country and the winning gold medal, like said, belong alongside of Steve.

How Bron felt about Stephan. I felt about Steve.

Balin every year you know, batling ballin, you know what I'm saying, And Steve's a great coach, and to be in it with Spoe and then having Mark Feu from Gozaga who was on staff as well. Man, it was just great to just you know, learn so much and see so much, pick each other's brains.

It was.

It was an amazing experience.

Man.

So I'm just happy that like that, Steve, you know, extended the invitation as well as Grand Hill.

And it was.

It was beautiful.

Now we're gonna talk a little bit about your playing career. You grew up in a small town. I went to Nebraska, which we talked about Mexico shot out Mexico eleven thousand people.

Uh where you were a number?

Were you in the twenty three twenty third pick in the nineteen ninety eight draft? You got the red What was at the navigator on the twenty two gold?

Ye had gold rims too?

No?

Yeah, yeah, no, manest bumpkin.

I relax yourself, man, relax yourself.

You gotta go there.

You know, you know Minwestdy right, goes man, that's true.

But you I didn't have got uh, I didn't have goals I had. I had the silver joints.

Uh.

I give a shout out to Mark and Darnell. Three one on motoring, that's.

Right, three one on motor I remember that it was kicking that that was going up.

Uh, you got drafted.

What was who was your favorite player growing up and then looking back on your journey, like talk about like what made.

What was like your happiest moment my idol?

Girl?

I mean, Jordan was everybody's like, you know, I could be sick, I couldn't.

Be that, but you know, Michael Jordan was definitely everybody's idol, but someone that I loved and try to pattern my game after. It was three guys. Actually it was Kevin Johnson. I love kJ, I love Terrell Brandon, and I love Kenny Anderson. Like those were my three guys that I looked up to and and like out of lives in wonder, you know, Pat of my game after. That's why I like, I love the mid range so much because of kJ and to real Brandon, two of the best at doing it, you know, especially.

When I was coming up, you know, watching the game. And so what was your next was your second question?

Oh, my favorite moment was It's got to be when I got drafted and was able to buy my mom our first car.

You know, we never had a car growing up our whole life.

And to get drafted and buy my mom that Cadillac Escalade, her first car.

You right to Mexico. You know, I say, you big balling, but that was one of my happiest moments.

Get my mom, you know the car, you know, house, my grandma house, and like for me, it's always been about just taking care of others, taking care of my family, and that's why I want to do it.

That's what made me so hungry.

And so.

You know, you think back, like I said, twenty years old, twenty one years old. You know red Navigator.

You know you was a l a after Blue Expedition, remember that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so man, you gotta be careful. You gotta be killing driving that around here. Whatever you're driving Red Navigator. I'm like, man from the Midwest.

Hey, Dre, he all at Inglewood. He's just going places.

I'm like, bro, you can't be just be driving this red Navigator on twenties with the with the thump coming out of it.

Man, I was, yeah, you look like.

I'm like dwond I'm twenty one years I'm from the hood in Mexican. What I'm saying like, I don't know, Like I'm hanging with Pete Pierce. You work out together every day, you know, we go and play in Rogers Park. You know, I'm just hoopy, like I don't know. Hey, bro, he is in Remember I take you to the Drew League once. You tell me when I took you to the juw Leigue, don't ever do what bring you back up?

Yeah?

Yeah, hey, that ain't We got down the Jew League down you know.

You know, of course I ain't scared to go nowhere.

You know, I'm young whatever, But he like Jordan down there, so we go to He dropped me off.

He's all over. He's talking to people by myself. You know what I'm saying everything They mugging me. You know what I'm saying, like, hey, I just stepped over your.

Stuff to me.

He was not feeling that.

We was not feeling the Drew was.

It was love.

But it was early too. Remember you was back because it was early in the morning. He was like, BD, come on, bro, you got me down here. This is this is a gambling Jane that was back but old Jew at Drew Middle School. Yeah yeah, so the gym like this big, the gym like this big. So everything somebody say you can hear you know what I mean, even people whispering on the sidelines.

But that was my guy.

Man, you help me down when I was in college and then I wanted to share the story up.

You probably don't even know.

Roy Williams recruited me and when I was with the y'all, I came out here for the Best in the West and U at the time, I was five to three, and I used to watch y'all.

You play for CMH.

Yeah, so I was like, that's my guy, that's who that's who I can be. When I saw you play on CMAHS, I was like, yo, I can beat him because I'm going to be a little dude. And I played on Paul team. I don't even know if you remember that. I was on Paul's team.

But we played joll in the slamming Jam.

Yes, Bro, Roy Williams and everybody in the camp thought I was a handicapped kid, what you mean because I played with a limp. I was fresh, I was three days out of a broken ankle, and I showed up at the Best in the West because I.

Just wanted to get recruited.

So so all he played garbage time, Bro, and I and I had and I had a limp. I was the little dude on the team with the lip, and everybody thought I was handicapped Earn Roy Williams.

He was like, what happened to that handicapped kid?

He was so good. I was like, bro, that was me, but like you are my guy, man, my god.

And I'll never forget that. I watched that game, like, damn, I'm gonna be like him. Man. That little dude got gang.

He became six three your parenial All Star.

Max was That was that was That was like one of the most shocking things that you had to deal with.

And like coming from a small city and like moving to like l a. Yeah, so.

I grew up in Mexico to my sophomore year in high school and then my sophomore year high school, I moved to Kansas City, Okay, Craze and so because like in Mexico wasn't being recruited. You there's a lot of politics, you know as far as who plays, who doesn't play, and people wasn't coming to Mexico to see, you know, see kids play.

You know.

So it was hard on my mom, you know, because like to let your son go as a sophomore hospital to move, you know, to Kansas City.

I went to Raytown High School.

It was hard for it. But if I wanted to get to where I wanted to get to. It was the right move, you know, it was the right move. And so I played in Kansas City, went to Raytown High School and then I played on the AAU team b bed talking about with Derrek Hood, you know, Jamal Walker and Manny Dott. I think our whole team went D one and the younger team underneath us that played up sometimes with Earl Watson, Corey.

Mcghetty, Jeron Rush cole On.

You know, so we team and that's when I got my first look because I wanted to go to Jordia Tech because I was you know, Kenny Yes, and he came to one of the games and he ain't looked at me one time.

But it took step. It took step, you know.

But that's when I kind of like got my name and got on the map and that's when I got started getting recruited and stuff.

So it was huge for me.

Yeah, we know, you played with Shaq, who's a big prankster in l a Uh. You gotta give us a wild shock prank or give us you know, I know, he's one of the best teammates ever did.

One of the best teammates.

Ever, somebody got a genuine and giving and taking care of people, like Shaq was dead.

But I remember one time.

He has devnth George to do something and Devon didn't do it, and so you know, Devin, you know, Lane didn't do it.

Whatever, So shocks all right. Cool.

So the night before we had a game, Devn's you know, I think, on the court shooting whatever, he's doing, the training room whatever. So Shaq goes in the stall and he takes a ship in Devon shooting.

Oh my god.

And so he takes it and he knocks it. He knocks it, you know. So it goes all the way down and so definitely definitely.

Uh comes back, goes put a shoe on Drake and he stuck his stuck his footing.

Some god, wash my god, Oh my god.

Devin George is a rookie at that point.

Yeah, he devastated. Wow, that's brutal. Man.

Shaq is the biggest kid in the world, Doug, Shaq is the biggest kid in the world.

You know what I give Shock credit for is I give Shock credit for being a megastar but living his life. Yeah, because you come across guys that you know, they won't come out of house, you won't see him.

Shaq was out every day.

So then it became just shocked, you know, And that's that's what he should do it, you know what I mean, because he was amongst the people.

He did everything like so he was a hero. You can live a normal life, but you.

Just you know, like locked, then you come out every now and then people don't see you, like it's harder for you to live at life.

But shock, like, man, I'm just gonna live.

And it's probably the smartest thing you ever did, you know what I'm saying, Because larger than life, but just to live every day life like you know, like me, like he just went out every day, did whatever you wanted to do. And people like, oh, I just shocked. We saw him last week, you know what I mean? It was cool, Like that was crazy.

Shack at the city on fire? Oh my god, you have the city on fire.

Trade you get traded to the Lakers on Draft night? Uh, first three years, don't go your way. Fast forward to the two thousand and one playoffs.

You find out that you care n ireson. How was that conversation with Phil?

The backtrack.

The year before the year when Phil got there was in two thousand. That's when I had messed my knee up and I got a microfracture. So I was out for ten mon. I was out the whole year we won that first championship, and so coming back the second year, it was kind of like, you know, back and forth because they were just trying to figure out who was a good match and good fit, and so they brought in the guy, you know, Mike Penberthy, who was a shark,

I threw it, Uh, you know, I'm like love marble fish bowls like that marble. I threw it through a glass table.

Man.

He went, man, what the hell is going on?

Man?

They put me on I R again.

I was I was Man, I was, you know whatever, going crazy. But the craziest thing is, back in those days, if you go on the if you get on the playoff roster, you had to be chosen. So we in the war room and he feels going around the room telling everybody who's on the playoff roster. And so at that time we had Mike Pemberthy, j R. Roder and myself and so when he called my name in the war room, Man I jumped crazy Kobe and them going crazy, and now everybody was happy.

I was hyping. You know what I'm saying. Left Mike Pemberthy and j R. Rider off the playoff roster. So once you off, you can't play it you do, you can't play.

Yeah, So throughout the course of those playoffs, I was playing like, you know, ten twelve minutes a game. And when people don't realize, it would have never been me in AI if.

Milwaukee would to beat.

The Stitchers in the Eastern Conference, because it's been Sam Counsel rayality, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wouldn't have played, you know. So so now we get to the finals and so the first game when I chicken like you know, I'm AI for two weeks, I'm playing AI, you know, run around fast, doing all this stuff, and so I ain't nobody was gonna play or not. But first game, with six minutes to go in the third quarter, he had

That's brutal. He was cutting that.

He was cooking that game.

He was cooking that game, man.

So you got to think, like as a young dude, you know, growing up the same height, like I analyzed AI too, you know what I'm saying, Like even we close in age, like that was like the culture, you know, stand up for, you know, who we are as the culture, who we are as people, and to live.

It on the on the level that he did, I mean that was huge to me.

You know.

So when I had a chance to go in the game, like I said to step over and all that, Like at the time, I ain't.

Even know it was a big deal.

Like feel like he cost me over and I fell down, and you know, like he made it, you know shot, I contested it and.

I stepped on his foot. You know what I'm saying, right, but to happen.

But if it wasn't for that series, if it wasn't for Ai making it to the finals, I might have beenun the league that next year.

Dann you play you playing you ball though?

Yeah, yeah, put me on.

The mat, because if I didn't have that match up with him, like I ended up playing twenty seven minutes a game in the finals, you know what I mean. But if I didn't had that matchup with Ai, I wouldn't have a match up against Toronto who had Album Williams and Vince Carter, Milwaukee who had you know, Big Sam and and Ray and those guys.

You know, bead, So I wouldn't even have a matchup.

So thankfully, you know, thank god he made it to the finals and like, okay, we need a different you know, we need a different guy to guard, you know, And that saved my career for real.

So it was a it was a blessing in disguise.

So the stepover was worth it. It was will worth it.

I do it.

Because you know they doing it in football.

I was gonna ask you, you know how you feel about all that, you know, I mean.

For me, it don't I don't feel bad like I said, it was a part of the history of a moment in history, you know. But like it ain't like I got called over failed that, you know what I'm saying, Like I could test the shot that back.

On his foot.

I kind of rolled my ankle, you know what I'm saying. But they make a big deal of it.

But like I said, hey, my man, like if I can win the championship, I'll let a step.

Over right now, step right down.

That far far.

Man.

You end up leaving the Lakers after that, going to the Washington Wizards. End of that September Black Cat m j D Michael Jordan decides he is going to return and play for the Wizards. How did you learn about m j making his returning and was there any indication before he announced it that he was going to be coming back and playing in that season with you?

So it's funny how it happened because you know, during that series with the Philly Lakers, you know, after that series, you know, Doug Collins, he's the one who made that step over famous.

If the one for him, people probably would have made a big deal out of it.

Oh, But then it's funny because he became the head coach the next year with the Whistles.

Wow.

And so after him watching that series, like that's my biggest payday. You know, they gave me two years four minutes.

I'm saying, I'm gonna make a four hundred thousands, you know what I'm saying, So like, no, six, six hundred thousand. So I was like, Okay, I gotta take this deal. But it was grumblers that MJ might come back. But you know, MJ was part of the front office already, and so a guy you idolized and looked up to, if I could be a part of MJ, Like, you know, I ain't getting four million dollars a beating, I'm gone,

Only you and Horace Grant.

Oh wow, yeah, yeah, I know we talked about MJ dropping fifty one on us. But I was happy MJ came back that year because I had thirty the game before and I was MJ that night.

So I just show my kids that you feel me.

Hey, if Jordan don't come back, I don't get thirty. I can't tell my kids. They won't believe I even played the one for that damn dunk. But like one of the most like one of the most iconic players. One of the most iconic players of MJ's career was the chase down block on Ron Mercer.

That was crazy.

Oh so you just around chased down blocks?

That's no.

I mean, I mean I missed.

I mean I was part of it because I was there when Taken blocked Bggie Miller.

Uh wow, you do it? There there for that bad bron and then Jordan's when he pitted against the glass two hands.

Wow. That was crazy.

And Ron Mercer was like an all American. I thought that was the thing that killed his confidences. He was.

Him him KG stuff, you know, But like Ron Mercer was shout.

Out, there was a legendary twenty ten pickup team. Yeah, there was a legendary pickup team in Las Vegas, Impact known for training. Uh no, we it was a it was a league. I think they're trying to give y'all credit.

It wasn't a league.

It was just runs. But you'll cheated all the time.

Yeah you, Chauncey, Yeah yeah, I was cheating, Brody.

Let me tell you what happened. So and you know I was a solid player.

But in the summertime, oh my god, right, bro oh my god, and.

So so we had you don't like this story too, because it's your partner to day. They so we we played best of seven series every day for for two months.

We had the same team. We didn't lose a series for two months.

And the team we had was just all guys that were just like milde packed players, you know what I'm saying in the NBA, but like together. It was me, Tayshawn, Jared Dudley, Patrick O'Brien, and our best player was Alan Anderson.

Wow, double a god, Oh my god, Jordan that summer hey, hey daddy, he was Jordan bro Like it was just running thing.

Like we never got beat. So they bought him. Beatie and Steven Jackson and Matt Barnes round our test, guys was flying in l a are we gonna beat this to nobody? Beat us to hold some Chauncey Kyle, Larry Jo We Hey, everybody.

Yeah read yeah, read yeah, read yeah read the show. I ain't gonna even lie. We could have We could have beat y'all, but remember I had Tony Allen on my team. Hey, and and t A Oh my god, t A pastor ball b I'm out here working on my game to o G like nah, not bro getting.

Hey day we flitzing pick and rolls.

H Hey they call it sets.

Uh yeah, we rotate Jao catching the post with Patrick o'brown become double team.

He kicking the ball. Hey, dudes was first.

Hey, that's that's funny.

I can't remember if it was that summer, but I know I had been up to impact when you were up there, t Lou, because I remember the day that I was up there. Big baby was up there. D Jones came in yelling.

To the top of his lung, talking ship to everybody.

Then you can.

Because Joe D Joe D has sent me Jordan a couple more of our friends out there to train for like four or five days.

So we was out there training that impact.

Yeah, on the on the little side court.

Relax yourself, bro, Like we got main court work, Joe Dubar, we got main court work, a.

Little side court, and then the defunk court.

It's cool. It's cool, y'all.

Both y'all both the hell Now, how about that? He say, when I make the team. Now you're both old as hell. Now you want to know, take the side.

But Joe bar Man, he ran a hell Joe he uh with impact man, it was that was that was huge though.

He did it.

Great job for sure, Teelu. What's your biggest coaching What if?

What if bron stays in Cleveland? And what if Katie doesn't go to Golden State?

That's a good one. Well, what player is the hardest to game playing for?

It's always been Steph, Like you know, I think you know Steph is, I mean, is one of the hardest, I mean the hardest guy the game playing for because of like everything he creates. He creates everything off his movement, you know what I'm saying. And people always want to try to duplicate you know what Golden State does. But you can't duplicate that because your best player, who was a Hall of Famer, who was the top five player in the league, like that's how.

He wants to play, you know. So they got to come, man, well we don't like you know, are why was I gonna run around like that? Run around like James Hardy gonna run like that like you know what I mean? So you can't duplicate that.

And that's why I always say, like, you got to coach to your personnel, not to your system, you know what I mean. Your your personnel has to fit your system. If not, you gotta change and do different things. Like every year I coach different. I got a different system, you know, every year. But Steph is the player that loves to play that way, you know what I mean. So when you have your best player that wants to play that way, it's easy to do because their bosse

We're always in for a good list before we get out of here. Appreciate you taking all this time. By the way, I hope, I hope I cost y'all loss so we can catch up with y'all.

But you know that's a.

Couple of days.

You know, we always up a good list, So I'm asking you this question. I also love that it's become more of a thing, like there's more of us, and like that's the way it should be. Your top five coaches that are players that turn coaches of all time?

Man?

What what? What are the qualifications?

Do it? Just dudes who coached?

They were they were NBA players, and then and then and they are the top five they were NBA players, The top five coaches that were players turn coaches.

Doc Rivers. I would say Al Adams.

Great, r I P great, Alan Adams.

I would say Bill Russell, Oh my god, Casey Jones, and then probably Lenny Lookins.

No feel yeah yeah, I mean.

Yeah, yeah, but like feel like feels like kind of grandfather like you talking about the most Shack.

No, No, you don't count shack. You do you know what I'm saying? Like you you don't status? Yeah, I mean yeah, like.

I feel like feeling Patterson like their own and another ballpark.

Yeah, I forget about pat.

You got to ask me. I gotta write that down first, and then I got it.

You know. Here's the thing though, t Lou, I love Pat, I love Phil, but.

It's it's the same thing kind of ends up happening with m J, where you like, yo, he and his own ballpark, but like no, but like people can't catch up, you know what I'm saying, Like people have put Phil again and feeling pat nobody's caught up, but maybe Pop nobody's caught up. But we always put these guys in these categories like they can't their stuff can't be touched.

But like it's guys working towards that.

Like I feel like when people talk to goat debate, for instance, a lot of people just say like Brian, like they ain't gonna say it's Brian or they ain't gonna say it's Kobe because they come after MJ. Not saying that they are better, but just because you come after, don't.

Like what what is it that has to go on for someone to be like, okay, they are in that category with feeling that the Godfathers feeling and pat Win.

You know, I think the biggest thing when you look at that, no matter who's on the team or who's playing, like you gotta win at a high level you know, and so I look at pat Riley, when I look at Field, like they want at an elite level, like say, have a pop ring, Steve Kerr forred rings, like you know, so like they want at an elite level, And so I just I base.

Everything I was winning, you know me.

You know, so when you look at pat Riley, you look at red Arabag, you look at you know, Phil Jackson like it's I mean, I know you should exclude him, but like they're just in their own yeah for sure, you know then and then you just kind of go from there. But man, we gotta start all over again.

Then let's go go for it. Stevie Kurry, Steve. I was going to Stevie kurtin next.

But you but you forget like the players that actually coach, you know what I'm saying. Like, so, Steve Kurk.

Doc.

Doc Lenny Wilkins, Lenny, are you are you basing off like.

I was basing it off of your hoop game? And then how you won as a coach?

Yeah? What you like?

You was you a solid player? Like with you a solid player in the hoop game and solid as the coach?

You mean, like I mean, all right, you know what we're gonna do. We're gonna go mixing the player and the coach. The greatest of all time. Stevie Kurr, You drop out, my friend.

He made one of the bigges shots in the NBA.

He did, but he made the shot, like, come on, Steve Kirk, Stevie Kurkr, that's my guy who Steve Kerr got me side in my chest in San Antonio.

He's gonna flash the championship.

Brings on me.

And he had and he had the highest three point percent I think in NBA.

He did, he did.

Steve Kerry was tough.

Players her Ptil Jackson, pat Riley dot.

All Star Bill, I mean Bill. Of course.

Wilkins was one big.

Yep. Lenny Wilkins won one as a player.

And then he won. Yes, tough.

Those lists are always tough, man. We respect all them goats. By the way, this is just Magic Johnson.

Magic.

Magic was an awful coach.

He wasn't awful coach. When you have great players to try to coach, you don't have the patience.

That's a fact.

Zee.

When we see you, yeah, like.

I'm never gonna be you Like you can get mad at me because I can't throw that when you when you're great like that, they don't have the patience to you know what I'm saying, to do it.

And they didn't think everybody's gonna be as great as them. But it don't work like that.

For sure. We respect all these grades. We love them. T Lou Man, we can't thank you enough, my brother. And this was incredible.

Hey, by the way, I got a shirt story before we go. I was going through my stuff last year and I talked to t Lu face to face fresh on suspension, and Tu told me something very interesting, and I'll be trying to practice that. And I will say I've taken steps in the right direction, meaning I pick and choose.

T Lou said, Dre, you gotta still be you.

He's like you you you ain't special.

Not being Hugh's like, that's what makes you special.

You have to be you, and you have to play with that same fire and you have to be that same guy, he said.

But it can't be everybody like.

It can't be you going as your teammates and then going as your coach, and then going at the referees, and then going that players on the other team. It can't be everybody you got it, like maybe you at the referees all right, cool and move on right like he said, but you can't.

It can't be everybody.

And I just wanted to share that and I just wanted to say thank you because that at that time was huge for me and it's actually a lot better.

For me and implemented that.

You know, some games, I'm like, yo, I'm at this dude today. Some games I'm like, yo, it's a referee. I really don't like him.

I'm at him right now, like you know, but it is like yo, pick and choose, like it can't be this, can't be that, can't be.

This can't be that.

And so I number one, I wanted to say thank you for that gym, that free game.

I appreciate that my brother, but that was that was big for me.

Yeah, I mean because he pined so much in the game.

And like you said, you know, when you when your when your mind's everywhere, you can't focus on what you're trying to focus on, and so you can't be mad. And coaches, math, the players, math and reps, math, the old team, math, the fans, you know.

What I'm saying.

And now the swing swing, you got a shot you so womed up like you ready to fight everybody in the building.

By till you get a shot.

But no, like I say, I do you know, appreciate what you bringing like like a brother to me, you know. So I just wanted to if it wouldn't be right if I didn't tell you, like you know what I thought you could take and do what you want with it. But like, I just feel like I would have been a brother if I, you know, tell you like you know, this is how it should be. So I'm glad you're able to implement that and and kind of go from there.

I appreciate you, brother. And the words of b D the t louisms. It's a rap from this episode of The Draymond Green Show.

Shout out to you fans. We appreciate y'all to it and then until next time The Draymond Green Show with My dog b D.

It's a rap. Yeah, peace.

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