The Draymond Green Show w/Baron Davis: Penny Hardaway on Michael Jordan & Steph Curry, Shaq-Magic split, coaching Memphis

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What's up?

Everybody? Welcome back to the Drapmond Green Show with b D my Dog.

Let's have them follow the show Jymon Show on Twitter so you don't miss out on all the announcements.

We got a special episode for y'all today. I am oh D excited about this episode.

Because my guys, I grew.

Up an Orlando Magic fan as a kid, and I was an Orlando Magic fan because the two people of Shock and Penny Hardaway and my first jersey in my life for Shock with the Stripes, I had an Orlando Magic simple onesie. I had an Orlando Magic nightlight. And

What's happening?

Oh, what's happening?

Fellas man Hey it's an honor, man, because I'm a fan of both. Obviously I've been knowing BD longer, but dre huge fan.

Man.

The way you approach the game, the way you play the game, your mental not even your you're the physical part of the game, but your mental is O. D.

Bro just a huge fan, huge fan, man.

I appreciate that. That means a lot.

Like I said, just for me being a fan of yours. And we're gonna get into that this episode. When I but when I heard the opportunity and they like, yo, what do I have a pinion on the show, I'm like, what, Like, it's crazy to me. So I just want you to understand, man, my love that I have for you, my appreciation for your career, for who you are as a person.

I can't I can't state that enough before.

Yeah, No, I appreciate that. It's the same here man.

It's just one of those situations where just watching you just grow through the game, man, just from day one. Honestly, and again, like I said, I've known b D way longer, but as far as what you said about me, it's the same, Bro. I just every every championship, every game when I'm watching with my bigs. When I'm watching with any player, it's just pointing you out.

You know.

We love Steph, we love Klay being there when Kad came, all of that. But I'm like, Dre, Man, you just got to watch a man. You are the type of player that I enjoyed playing with. I had bo Outlaw. I had these guys that just would run through a wall and do whatever it took and just never really got the full credit. You're getting the credit you deserve, maybe more, you need more. But at the end of the day, what you bring every day man, to pure basketball people is what we love to see.

Thank you, man, And I have to echo.

You know obviously my my uh looking up to you, bro.

I got an opportunity.

You know, I would say as a young kid when I was at u c LA to see you walk in the gym, uh, and I would say, just throughout my career, you've always been a guy, you know what I mean. And you know from what we saw in Orlando to the entertainment to just always how you carried yourself and then for me being a young dude in the gym, you know, like the way the way you baptized me in the game.

That was a cold move. You know what I mean? That was cold. That was cold because I picked you up full court.

You know what I mean. You had the ball was at U c l A. I was like, oh yeah, I'm about to pick him up. And Bro, when you looked at me, you was like, are you kidding me? You was like, and then you hit me with like eight moves and you know U c l A court d you feel he went in and out cross boom and then he did the smitty.

Then he did that and I was like, man, I was sliding.

I was like, man, hold on, dude, like I'm about to be tired of hell fucking.

I remember.

You were different, Man, I ain't gonna lie from the very beginning. Bro, you were way you were mature, way beyond your years in the game. You're changing speed, your athleticism, you're notledge the game, your r Q, your toughness because you had that toughness as well to go along with that game. I mean to change the heights, to change the speeds everything.

Bro.

You just man, you know I watched you and remember I went to Miami when we was both coming back from rehab. Man, I got a chance, you know, when we had our back, you had had some some knee isshoes, like we was both trying to make our way back, man, and then just soak up that gang from you, you know what I mean, and learn how to be like bad if you want to get to that next level, you know what I mean, Like.

It's all the fine details.

And I'll never forget that because that kind of took my career, to my confidence to a whole other level.

Man.

So you just you all, You're like, you.

Are my guy. You know what I mean, You are my guy. There is nobody touching you, bro, as far as like game the ism, you know what I mean. Just I mean it was it was almost like you you are one of the pioneers of hip hop and who how to rap music start, how to rap music start really translating into oh, there he is, you know what I mean.

The story there he is.

You want of the realist dudes to ever touched a basketball, bro and to play this league, and you know salute Yeah.

No, I appreciate it.

Man.

I feel the same way about your game, bro. You were just elite.

When I left UCLA, I called everybody was like, yo, Baron Davis, look out when you came into the league, you did the same thing.

Bro.

It was crazy how you did it at all levels. You did the same exact thing that you said that I did. Man, and the ill is dude that I've ever seen with a rock in his hands, for sure, no doubt, that's oh Man.

I mean you averaging today and today I don't want.

To make nobody man taking at least thirty for sure, easy thirty, easy thirty in my prime, I'm not disrespecting anything. But in this day and age, this game fits me. It's not crowded in the paint. You ain't playing your match up every possession. You know, back in the day, we played our matchup every possession, so you really had to bring it now having the five man switch out.

No, I mean yeah, that would be crazy, Like what was what was getting thirty on the dubs? Nah, that's an easy thirty.

I just know, Man, at six seven, I was a student of the game, Bro. It wasn't just about my athleticism and the style of I studied so hard, Bro, so I was gonna figure it out, no doubt.

And talk about talk about the difference in you know, like your mentality coming into the league, you know as a rookie at rookie sensation like in that era, like you had to be a dog, you know what I mean, Like talk about you know when you got there, Like what was your mentality knowing that, Okay, you got Mike, you got Reggie Miller, you.

May have Rod Strickling, you know what I mean, it's a fight every night. What was that like?

Yeah, it was killer be killed, bro, that was my mentality. You gotta gu out there and kill or be killed. And those guys weren't sparing you. Back in the day again, you had to play your matchup and it wasn't much help. You're on the island by yourself. And I said, well, they have to be on the island with me by themselves too. So at the end of the day, I was six seven, I posted them up. I was like,

I'm with getting it done. And when I came in it was KIBQ.

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I'd like to report a trade.

Orlando has traded the draft rights to Chris Webber.

To Golden State.

In exchange for the draft rights to Anthony Hardaway and three future first round draft picks.

All right, you were traded to the Orlando Magics for Chris Webber on Draft Night one. How did you feel about the trade. But the biggest question, Yeah you were not traded, you would have had a career at Golden State. What do you think would if unfolded as a Golden State Warrior?

Yeah, first, I'll talk about being traded for my man seawb shout out to Sea web He. It was something that I auditioned for because I was doing the movie Blue Chips in LA with Shack and I was with him every single day. And the blessing behind that movie is that we played real basketball. I don't think I took five shots the whole summer. I threw him the ball every time, like Big Butler. That's what I'm going to do the whole year. I was smart because I

Oh, straight one.

On one in front of Nelly, Nelly sitting in the crowd just chilling, and Me and timmy going at it.

And I knew I had to go at him, but Tim and much respect too.

Oh my gosh, did you did you cook him?

You know what?

I can't I can't remember what the scores was honestly, I got to ask him about that, but.

I know we played five games't lose all five games. He was runner in the league at the time too.

Man, Yeah, man, that's that's just crazy.

Though.

I think about like my draft process and like for you to say my draft workout, I played against the team, Like with all these rules and ship today, you could never do that. But that's but like, what better audition than to see exactly, like, what better audition you get out there with the guys and play like.

They had their best defender on me. He was Anthony Bowie at the time. That's the guy that they put on m J all these guys, Reggie.

And Yeah, but he was in the machine to be there.

He was in the Washington That's hilarious. So so you entered the league in the East obviously going there with Shaq and Michael Jordan is dominating the league. What what did you what what comes to mind for you about that first matchup? Like BD, his first matchup with you is in in u c. L a jail, right, Like what was your what was your first matchup with him?

Jay? And what comes to mind for you from that matchup?

Yeah?

What was so crazy is he was retired at first he came back. Wow yeah yeah, so we was the dudes in the league. So when MJ came back, I said, okay, all right, all right, I know what I got to do because at this point, this is my second year.

I'm ready, I'm rolling.

And he came back, and he came back with a vengeance. But that first matchup was I had to let him know right away because he was that dude.

Come on now, he was the dude.

So I was like, all right, I took him right to the post, did what I normally did, and was trying to I was trying to put fear in him guarding me because I knew what he was gonna try to do to me on the other end, so I was trying to hit first.

Yeah, that was a battle, I mean, you know what I mean, Mike coming back forty five. Like when you saw Mike in forty five, was he like he ain't in the twenty three, you know what I mean?

So I didn't recognize the forty five. I know who that was.

I was like, he's gonna be a little rusty, but this is MJ. To just be able to come back mid season. Bro fifty five against the Knicks. He had double nickels against the Knicks in the Garden second game, right right, So I'm like dog all right, cool. So when he got into the building it was forty five. We was like, you know, it's MJ. But man, we played them in the playoffs right after that, and man, Nick Anderson stole his ball and we won the game off of steal.

He came back the next game in the twenty three.

Oh wow, he said, I'm out of the forty five and work. When he took his jersey off, everybody saw twenty three and he looked at the crowd, crazy crazy heat us that game Game two.

Even I how the NBA approved that. It's crazy in itself.

There wasn't no rules like that. That's m J.

He didn't care what David Stern rest in peace with sad bro. He was like, I'm rocking this. Oh, y'all got all these rules today, Savage. None of that was going on back Savage.

And miss series. He changed his number. Let me get back, y'all want up?

Y'all wound up?

You know, they won game two and we went to Chicago in one game in games three and four.

Yeah, y'all wind up, call y'all wound up getting them? That was that was an epic moment, you know what I mean? I felt like that kind of puts you in a whole nother strategy.

Oh no, did Big Mic is what they call him in Chicago. When you beat Big Mike, you know you're doing something Big Mike.

You played, You played against MJ, You played against Cole.

I think you played against Bron.

Right A guess who Bron? You played Bron and I played against Many. Yeah, yeah, he came back for a couple of games and then he went right for now. He didn't even stay. He came back during that season. So I got a chance to play against all those times.

Man, So tell me, like those guys, A lot of people talk about those guys being in the Gold conversation.

Huh, how do you how do you look at that? Like?

What do you if you say, oh, this guy is the best, that guy's the best, how.

Do you look at the whole Golt conversation?

Because I view it differently.

Right, because Lebron got the numbers, you got MJ, who had this innate way of just hitting fifty whenever he wanted and was crazy with it and winn the championships undefeated in finals.

And then he had Kobe who mimicked them.

J who had IQ, who had toughness, and who had shot making ability and won championships himself. So I put them in those categories. So Lebron is the numbers guy. He got the numbers, like, that's the guy. He's got to give him that. M J being a guy undefeated in the finals I got it was, you know, first team All Defense. I can't remember how many times. I mean,

Kobe all of a job carving coffee.

And it's like that, it's almost like you're trying to calm carving coffee then impossible, you know what I'm saying, yea, and to actually.

Do it, so yeah, yeah, and to do it.

So what Kobe had when m J had a Kobe was so different, or I should say Kobe's approach versus MJ's approaching. MJ was like, I'm giving all y'all at seventy. Like if I go to Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, he did that fifty fifty fifty. I don't know how two or three times in his career. Think about going fifty to fifty fifty San Antonio, Houston, Dallas. What Kobe did when he had problems was I'm marking Penny Hardaway down on my list, I'm marking down on our list. I'm

And then, man, I want you to talk about because to me, like you see Magic Johnson and then the next iteration of somebody that's six eight sixty seven with dimes offensive talent leadership, like the next version was Penny Hardaway.

How much of an influence did like Magic? Have you know what I mean? Or who are some of the people that you patterned your game after, you know? Coming up?

Yeah, it was strictly Magic for me because how he approached the game. You're talking about a fierce competitor, talking about somebody that was happy to make everybody else better. You talk about somebody that was gonna win at all costs. Champion did whatever it took. Played five spots in the NBA. Who can say one guy played five spots like that throughout his career and.

He was a PG six nine PG.

He wasn't the most athletic, he wasn't the most the fastest dude. He was getting picked up ninety four feet by guys. He understood ikey on how to get the ball into a position when somebody bigger played him. He had all the shots he developed, the sky hook he posted up he made. I mean, it was just ridiculous. So for me, it was magic all the way. Man, just watching him a lot of and.

You just mentioned him tim Hardaway the Texas two step, But for us growing up, we called it Timmy. You know, the twin cross. Yeah, that's the Timmy. Yes, like for us growing up, Yeah, Andrew.

Wiggins does this move.

I knew exactly where it came from the first time I seen it, and I was like, oh my god, he just hit him with the penny.

How did you come up with that?

Movie?

And you was doing it from three, which I think.

Is absolutely insane, Like people don't understand how far away the NBA three point line is from the round. To have the strain to do that move from three, it's insane to me, Like where, how did you come up with that move? And why do you think it is that the more guys don't use it because you you create so much separation with it.

Yeah, I think for me, you know, shout out to Keith Askings, who was one of the best defenders in the league. He was kind of overreactive. Any little flinch I made, he went for it. So me, I'm studying them every game. I'm like, in that moment, because I only used that move, you'll never see end of that move ever.

In my career.

Again, I was all about getting space and shifting you, right, So I knew if he was gonna go for the half half spin, I had already planned it out in my head and it just happened.

In the moment.

I said, if I have spin this dude, he's gonna be there because he was just that type of defender, and I'm just gonna separate with a step back. And when I hit the half spin and saw him there, I just hopped back. He didn't know I was gonna do that, Obviously I did, And when I did it and shot it, I was in such a rhythm.

Man, it was time. At that point. Everything was going in.

But that was one time I did that move and I never tried it again because my mind just worked to try to shift you and I knew what type of defender he was. And the reason why to go to the second part of that question, God don't do it anymore. God's ain't playing d that hard to leave no more for them to actually have to try to do that feeling and you're a great defendier. So you know what I mean by that, I'm not knocking, but

No, you only got a couple of guys.

That's like really picking the guy up in their chest like that you talking to guy. But then also another thing is though you can't touch players today, like.

You imped any movement. But dudes they calling them.

Follow the dudes ain't a frank, Like dudes are afraid to get embarrassed, right, It's more like being afraid to get dropped or dunked on or in the highlights where it was more so like I feel like you know your era and then a little bit and then my era was more so you're trying to get on Sports Center, right yeah, So you know, I just feel like it's just a difference, Like dudes are nervous, Like, man, I ain't about to go hard on defense and then be sitting on the floor.

You know what I mean, nobody wants that.

Look, I look at the approach. Like jay Z said in his line, y'all respect the one who got shot. I respect the shooter. Remember that person? I respect the defender that gets up and he gets droped, he gets back up and come at you again. I respect that more so than the shot.

So that's me.

You know when you look at that, when you look at the NBA, like you said, you said magic on to I'm sure you still watch the NBA something today when you look at it, who do you have your top three guys as far as handle that came through the league or.

That came through the league. Paul Crawford is one of them for sure.

Okay, crossovers over Kyrie and Man, it's a lot of guys that had beat he had crazy handles, but he wouldn't He was freakings with it as well.

But you're talking about God that displayed it every move. He was about blowing around you. But these guys are like Kyrie, he'll hit you, beat you, pull back. We're talking about them type of guys the same thing. So you're talking about and then Step has handles. He could do whatever he's want with that thing too, man, so and then to be able to get that out from three to the same handles. So right now I can put Step in that category because man, he works at it and he gets separation better.

Than the other.

He don't you knowed this much room.

But the big the big guys with the handle to me were j C and uh and and Uh Kyrie and I'll put.

Step strickly until I always put rock.

Don't even start with him, Bro, that dude was ridiculous. He was ridiculous. He was Kyrie. I'm talking about just about handles. Yeah, Rod Strickland was was crazy with it.

Bro, yeast.

I did.

I did go ahead.

Kenny Anderson, Hey, Bro, I used to make me some mad in practice because he would be killing and.

You know how he is. You're like, come on, you know, we're just playing ball, yo, come on up yo.

And I would be in practice, like trying to follow him, you know what I mean, and he just be killing. I was like, I'm gonna lose my spots and this dude, you know.

Well, speaking of the greats, though, the one debate that comes up all the time, it's the ninety six Olympic team. What's better than the ninety two Dream Team? Where where do you stand as far as those teams go? Obviously you are a part of the ninety sixteen, but you know, and and seeing how those two teams went about Yeah.

No, all our idols are on ninety two. Bro, we bound out the ninety two. You got to, bro, you got to show love and respect to ninety two. But we ain't bound out. Nobody else thought, whoa, okay, Wow, let's go.

Let's go through the match.

Nobody else, let's go through the match. Let me see, let me go through the man. Nobody else. Come on, we can talk about that.

Jay, go what's the fine. I'll be one.

I'll be I'll be one hundred percent honest. I want to flex my muscle a little bit. I got two of them things, but I'll be one hundred percent honest.

You know, I'm always keeping real. I'm not a part of some of the great this Olympic teams of all times.

I got on my first Olympic teams because some guys didn't want to go because of the xecra virus in Brazil.

So how the guys ain't want to.

Go, I'm like, oh, you're gonna have to see me.

I'm going.

So I'm not gonna sit here and even act like one of my Olympic teams could compete, because I'm sitting here looking at this team list and no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm always keeping no chance. Would we would have Probably we had a good team, like a really good team, but I'm just not sure her team could compete with this team.

So I'm not I'm not even gonna do.

I think y'all match up with uh, this past Olympic team though.

Yeah, no, they were really good, you know, And it's just to me. I mean we had that, we had the big yeah, you know what I mean, we had all the big Charles.

Barkley, Gray Hill, Anthony hard Way, David Robers and Scottie Pipper, Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller, Karl Alone, John Stocked, and Shaquille O'Neill, Gary Paynon. How came oldge one, I'm sorry, I hell.

A team crazy, that's crazy.

And shout out the GP. GP is my dog.

GP got closer doing that Olympics in ninety six because we was we were. We would go every time you went to Seattle, you had a problem, you had to go to bed talking about GP. That so we never listened. Everybody can debate their own Olympic team. Like Dre said, man, it was an honor to represent the country. Like you said, people didn't want to go he went, come on, Bro. That was a blessing. But honors was in the States in Atlanta, which to me was even more special because

That's amazing.

Ya.

I want to ask you a couple of questions.

And obviously your Memphis team is playing incredible.

I appreciate it.

When you get into like the game today.

And obviously when you first got into it had an issue with you and James Wiseman and past relationships and all this stuff. And now you look at the NIL how in your view and being in it, has that changed the college game, the college game.

As a whole. Yeah.

Yeah, the whole entire James Widen situation was by the judge saw how I saw. You know, when we were retired from the NBA, Bro, we go back and we do for our communities, right, even when we're in the league. And when I retired, I came home and I did for the community. I didn't do anything for James Wiseman on my high school team that I didn't do for anyone else over all the years from you know, ninety

You know.

I think that's what it's going to turn into, because we need some guardrails on this thing. Because a player can get as much money as he wants, good all the time, get all the shots, get all he wants or whatever. And I'm speaking from what the coaches say around the country. But he can come to practice and go, yo, I'm not I'm not feeling practice to day, and you can't find him and go, well, we're finding.

You because you're not practicing.

They still get their money, you know, And you know, it's a beautiful thing for these these young men to get paid. But it also it's it's it's been taken out of it's getting a little out of hand, and we just got to get some guardrails.

Well, I was gonna ask you, what is it? You know, whatever gift there is a curse, you know what I mean. And so you know, you kind of nil is sitting in this middle ground of it can be great for families and things like that, but there's also you know, they are getting millions of dollars. You know, when we got millions of dollars, nobody gave us an instruction box how to manage a million dollars and for sure a loan you know, being hard to manage, you know what

Yeah, I think it gives them an excuse as well of not to work hard to get to the league. Because they're making so much money, they can physically retire and say, well, if I don't make the league, I got this to fall back on. So the hunger to me and Dre knows this and you notice the hunger. You got to have to make it, you know. And a lot of these young men they just to understand obviously the world has caught up and surpassed in some areas,

That's interesting because I felt like, you know, a part of a part of one to make it for me was the struggle like not having food when I was in college.

And I am.

Totally on board with players getting paid because you know, I think you create value in anything, you should make money. Like that's just the world we live in, and so I'm completely on board for that. But I do think NIL in a sense about the NCAA, it's a setup. And I think it's a setup because to me, it felt like they were just like, all right, here you go, let it blow up in your face. You know what, I'm saying everything else that want to put guardrails around

Paid, you know.

And and but yeah, again, who who are you going to when that happens, because there's no one government.

It's just what it is.

Yeah, I think that when it happened, a lot of coaches already had, you know, foreseen that this was going to happen. What you're saying, like the ncaagent took their hands off and go allay, go to work, you know, and we don't have anything to do with it. You know,

You got that talk about like coaching in this era because you you you started without.

The NIL now yet now in the NIL.

Just talk about you know, coming up in the league, the coaches you had and then you know, coaching philosophy. How is that? You know, how have you evolved? You know, I would say from a player coach and you know now in this new an, I M.

Yeah, I'm still the same, you know, because the way that I recruit these guys is we play out of concepts. We try to do everything Golden State does. Anybody in the league does that play out of concepts? Man, We don't have like a set system. You know, there are systems and I don't knock those coaches, coaches to being a coach. Izzo has a great system, you know, and they played. They just have to play tough, but it works.

When you first got into the college game, and you know, this could be just me because how big of a fan I am, but when you first got into the college game and you're walking into the East living rooms as the hardaway.

Was that too.

Was that to a benefit or to a detriment, because I think the first thing that people would think is it's Penny. Of course, people want to be around you, of course, but you also run into a lot of people that want to use that against you, you know, like they want to use your self, your success, your name against you.

Like did you find that to be helpful or hurtful?

It's two ways, though, Drake.

The first way is the good way, because the parents were fans of mine. Most of those parents, they love the game. They got a kid that can play ball. They're like, man, I watched you. You were my favorite player. And from that side, it was great. But then there's so many coaches that bond together. There's a lot of haters. They go, don't go play there. It's not organized, it's all NBA stuff. And then I didn't only walk into

I just came right in. That makes a lot of people mad.

So while these parents are oohing and aye and man, we love you, they've got twenty phone calls from someone going don't go there, go here, just don't go there. So there's so many people hating for for young men not to come to me because they know the success that I'm going to have and that they're going to.

Have one thousand. I love it. I love to talk to your ship.

Oh gee, though, going back to the Olympics, right, because I always wanted to ask, right, you come off of Olympic goal right summertime, celebrating the goal, and then Shaq leaves the magic but the Lakers bro.

First day of my life. I ain't gonna lie.

I knew the magnitude of that bro. But here's the thing though, that was so crazy. Shaq never told me he was leaving. Oh wow, you know how you get into the nos this Like all of the international media was in there. In our interview with the entire team, We're on a panel and they're asking each one of us questions, and one guy goes, how does it feel not to have Shack as a teammate?

Whoa hill right here?

Gary Padon, I'm like, looked at Charles Barkley. I'm looking.

I'm like, if that happens, then that will be devastating. That's exactly what I said. And they was like, no, like he's he's about to sign the multi year deal with the Lakers. I was like, well that's the case, then, you know, I wish him well. And then Shaq came to my room, either that day or the next day, knocked on my door Bro and was like, Bro, I'm sorry. I should have told you, Bro, I was done.

I was.

It killed me, Bro, it killed me. But I'm gonna tell you what happened. All of like the the entertainers in l a. Cherry West rest in Peace was so smart. He knew Shaq wanted to be in movies. He brought him to La Is Beautiful. Even though Orlando is a family town in l A is different. Shaq went there and they man, they they did everything. They threw everything at them. He forgot my name. He was like, what

That's crazy. Wow, damn shock. When he came to the Lakers, you know, that's my dude.

Though man may not do. I love that dude to death, but he knew.

He apologized a thousand times after that, Like if I would have known now what I knew back then. But at the time, I felt like he made the right decision for his career monetarily and for championships because he went to a team that was willing, and Orlando was going to do exactly what we needed to do to go out and get pieces as well. But Lakers Orlando franchise versus the history.

But it couldn't he could have stayed in Orlando for two years because when he got LA, it.

Took him a while to get there.

Yeah.

So you know, I always and and I love when he said, like, damn, I should have stayed.

With Penny, got us one and then bounce that been with me.

But you know, it's like, you know, basketball has so many storylines, and everybody's story is you know, interweed with everybody else is just you know, it's great to see, like you know, when things come full circle, you know what I mean. And for him, you know, to big up you, to say like you're one of the greatest players he's ever played with, you know what I mean?

And like you getting your.

Flowers now especially yeah, you know, I know you coaching and so how them players are you know what I mean?

Yeah, but like they need to hear.

From us, like how special and how important you are to us, because I appreciate open you open the floodgates to like, oh I can get out here and wiggle.

Oh.

Basketball is entertainment, you know what I mean, But it's there's a style to this killer you know what I mean. That just I mean that motivated me, That motivated the whole generation of people.

Man.

So you know, I just always look like your storyline, even with the knee injuries, with my knee injuries, and I say, man, there's so many parallels. But to be able to like share that moment with you, you know what I mean, Like for me, I know it was hard, but you know, for you, like just share a little bit about you know, overcoming injuries, you know what I mean, Yeah, would have been because I always think about that shit too, Like yeah, come on, you know, like how tell me what would have been?

Man?

Like, yeah, that's crazy?

Man, me healthy, I just you know, I just know I could have did like way more damage. I wasn't a selfish player, but I just got it done, you know, in my way, and I wanted to win. And I would have not having any injuries. It would have been crazy. It definitely would have been crazy. The same thing with you, bro, and the same thing with Dre. Dre didn't have the injuries we had. He's been like you were just talking

And I wanted to win.

And I hate that I didn't because watching the guy that have one man, it's like watching them celebrate, Bro, it just takes you back to be like, Man, I just wish I had that moment.

I wish I had that moment all the time, Like I wish y'all had that moment too.

Man, Over and over again.

It's an incredible feeling. It's hard to put it into words. It's crazy, though, because when I did it the first time, it was like incredible and it was like wow. And then like after like a couple of weeks of living on this cloud, I kind of went through this little small depression and like fear of life. Man, what if I never feel that feeling again?

And then we did it. When we did it.

Again, what I've gotten every time since is that you get the most joy out of seeing the guys on the team that's now doing it for the first time. Yeah, for sure, because it can always it always take you back to that moment. I'm like, why, like, I remember when I felt like that, Like not that I'm not happy, like it's the best feeling, but I know that that joy right.

There is different, you know, because when you do it for that first time. Thanks, nothing like it. But I'm sorry speaking of the first time.

You remember the first time and I don't want to don't get me the u c L A gym that we can't see.

Do you remember the first.

Time you played Penny?

He had twenty four points that game.

I was coming off the bench for the Charlote Hornets, I believe, and Penny was from the Yeah, he was in.

The Phoenix Suns.

Eddie Jones was the shooting guard and you know, you know Eddie was my dog too. Eddie was that dog and uh yeah, just goes to show, like you know Penny came in there.

It was you and Jake Kid.

Yeah, no doubt that would come on, dude, I was I don't even think I played in that game.

Did I play? I played like.

They wouldn't let me in the MiGs bro it wasn't crazy.

That's so crazy, Dot Bead talk about I want to ask that question because as great as you are, were coming out, you had to sit to these veterans and you were like this young goon ready to go to work, and you just had to senuate your turn.

Talk about understand how you did that.

I don't know. I was just out when I got in. I think I was so hyped up. I would make mistakes, you know what I mean, And like, you know, our margin for era was very minimal, you know what I mean. And the way Boss Silace coach like you had to spot up jumpers go in the post. And when I got to Charlotte, I was like, damn. Like when I first got there, we was moving, you know, pick and roll, showing what I can do. When they started putting them plays in, it was like, oh, we don't fast break

And I never got to start my rookie year.

But that's your that's your testimony. Bro.

When I came back, I started, you know, every game after that. David Wesley called me in the summer. He was like, hey, Bro, just tell him don't trade me. I was like, bro, when I see you in training camp, Bro, you better mind a new position.

And he wound up playing to starting shooting guard for US.

And David Westy was tough.

Penny and just speaking on you know, obviously you were with Orlando Magic, then you went to Phoenix.

But again, I go back to the Orlando Magic times.

Ye, Shack Jerseys just became the first jersey to get retired in Orlando Magic history.

Do you think you will and should get that call soon? Personally? Before you speak, I think so.

I think so, man, But you know what was so crazy as t Matt came behind me and he wore number one too, So I think both number ones, but Grady and Hardaway need to be up in there. And I know you're talking about me because Macs my dog, but I think that number one needs to go down Hardaway and Matt, and we need to do it on the same night because that's my dog.

I don't need it. I mean, we need to do that because people.

You know, Yeah, I can get both number ones, but you definitely needs you all night. Man, you got you got way too many highlights, way too many accomplishments like we gotta have, you know what I mean? Like as far as the yeah, yeah, man, you know you you you you without barring any injuries, you're on that goat level, you.

Know what I mean, no doubt I was. I was on the way, he.

Was on your way.

And there's always a debate obviously who's Mount Rushmore. What I want to know what does your mouth rushmore? Look like like, who are your four players?

I go old school so much, so I'm happy to read I go old school so much, man. But it's so much greatness in today's game, and it's played over the last ten years. But if I'm going old school old school, it's it's Shack, It's m J, it's Kobe, and it is Brian. That's that's That would be my list. If you want that, that would be the list besides besides me, if I'm going that route, it's just, you know,

Is he a shooting guard? What are we talking about?

You know, I'm just.

Saying, what is the point guard? That's what I'm saying.

So when we talk about point guards, bro, how could you leave the little either. I remember saying a long time ago that dude is an assassin. Bro, he got the baby pace, but that dude is an assassin. Man, what he's done to the game. You cannot leave him out of any conversation.

Now that's a fact.

He a point guard. You know why Steph's a point guard. And I think I think people asking you know you you have the whole theory is the glass has half, then is the glass for I think people asking is Stephan's point guard or shooting guard as a compliment to Steph because the reason they asked the question, it's because of how well he shoots the basketball. Yes, and so you shoot the basketball so well that everyone wants to

Number one guards didn't shoot off the dribble.

When you talk about proto type prototypical shooting guards, most prototypical shooting guards was one or two drip bounces. If they spotted pulling up one or two bounces to the cup, that was a two guard. And so I think it's such a compliment to him when people say that because you shoot the ball that well. But here's the thing when you talk about why he's a point guard, is if you've ever watched stuff, and I've seen all.

Of them, I'm blessed to say that.

The amount of coverages that he's seen and had to read, like quarterbacks recoverages, point guards recoverages, the amount of coverages that Steph has had to read and being guarded. I'm no Bron has not seen, Kobe has not seen, MJ has not seen. There is not a person in NBA history that has seen the amount of defenses and different type of coverages that Steph Curry has seen and to navigate that still average almost seven assists per game on the career plus his points and to get those readsons.

So for instance, step is averaging six and a half six six assists. I'm averaging seven and a half eight.

I'm averaging those assists off of him making a quick read and getting me the ball and then allowing me to do what I do. But the quarterbacks still had to hit me on the route right. And that's why I say, like, no question, he's a point guard. But it's the ultimate compliment because you're so great at a thing that they want to make you that other thing.

You know what, you know what, you know what it is.

It's he's a point guard who scores the way a shooting guard was traditionally supposed to score. Like point guards don't really you know, like over the history of the league put up fifties and forties and things like that. So when you see somebody like even you, Penny, like I ask you, are you a point guard?

Of course? Right?

You know what I mean, when you play with Jason Kidd, you still a point guard. You a combo guard. And so now Steph has been called a hybrid guard. I say, Penny Hardaway point guard, point god, Steph Curry point god, because he just revolutionized.

The way who we play, you know what I.

Mean, Like nobody and you know, I've never seen somebody score shooting guard points at the point guard position night in and night out, you know what I mean. I feel like Ma Bear was maybe one of the most potent point guards. Iver Sin was was a shooting guard, you know what I mean. And so like Steph is doing what Iverson is doing from the point guard position, and so it's it messages people's equilibrium up because that's not what you traditionally see.

Yeah, and it's like it's like Dre said, Iverson saw man and man coverage, he saw double teams. But he's, like he said, Steph is seeing every coverage imaginable. But his IQ, along with Dre's IQ and the way that Steve has the office flowing.

If we can give him.

The credit just marries that marries everything together in the perfect form for how he plays the game. And then most of his shots are coming from him screening, him slipping the screen, him getting to drip a hand off, him throwing it and zooming in and chasing it and getting the shot and being able to make those shots while making those decisions.

Yeah, and then I think he's gotten more.

He's got more back door cuts in his career in the last two or three years that I've ever seen, because now he's reading them over playing them. He's getting the back doors and Dre's leading them before he moves throwing them open. So I'm watching all this like, man, it's unreal. He's been blessed to have Dre because everybody couldn't have been in the position Dre is in throwing somebody open versus throwing somebody at past It's two totally

That would be stupid. Come on, man, I come off the bench. I am not tripping. Let me come off the bench, you know what I mean?

Yes, sir, no, that's fired.

You've been at Memphis since twenty eighteen. Yeah what what?

Oh? Yeah?

Oh yeah? Yeah? Okay, better I go there. Okay, but I'll go there all right. So I'm a I'm a big fan of the Clone Orlando Magic team.

Uh.

It's crazy because if you go back and date these podcasts early well, during the draft year of Paolo ban Carroll, everybody was saying Jabari Smith Junior would be the should be the number one pick. And I actually love Jabari Smith game. So this ain't a slight at all. But I said on this podcast, I said, yo, everybody talking about Jabari Smith being a number one pick.

To me, Paolo bn Carroll's the number one pick.

And they end up taking the intel from the Draymond Green Show and they did the right thing and they drafted Pollow you know, but you know then they also did a great thing and they drafted from Vagner. You just said, you know, if you were with us, you know how that would have been. How how would you have for a scene playing with those two young guns. They both would be All Stars this year if they

Yeah?

No, First of all, shout out to Jamal Mosley Man. They Orlando Magic. They did a great job on choosing him because he paid his dues bro. So I'm happy for him. He's done a phenomenal job with his staff of knowing who's who. He knew Paulo was that guy. And for me to play in that system, And like I said, with Franz, he's hurt, he's injured as well. He might be out for weeks, so he's injured as well.

What do you think is next?

Like, obviously they gotta get healthy, and although I think they're having a great year, I don't quite think they're at that contender level yet.

What do you think needs to happen for that team?

Obviously those two guys are staples not going anywhere and be there for the next ten years if they want to be.

But what do you think that team needs.

To do in order to continue to take that next jump and take advantage of these young guys, Like you want to take advantage of these guys while they don low salaries, because once the salaries get too big, you start having to pluck pieces and Franz just got paid.

Paulo will Yeah. I think what you have to do is you got to get smart vets. The guys like back in the day was like a James Posey or Tony Allen or or David West, like David West, Scott, you know like that that are true professionals that know how to win, that still have enough game, that can get in the game and kind of help manage them, kind of help understand that I'm gonna take the best forward in the game. If I'm a forward, you take the second level forward and watch how I do this.

Yeah, they need some blue guys, blue guys. I agree with that. I agree with that.

That's that's a problem around the Lee.

A lot of places people start getting rid of vets because the tax you know, penetrations so big, and that three million dollars that a van will make as opposed to the million dollars ends up costing fourteen million dollars as opposed to two and a half, and people start getting rid of vets. But I think the effect that it has on these organizations, like you can say that fourteen million dollars if you want to, and don't get me wrong, fourteen million dollars is a lot of money.

That never learn how to do it on their own.

They have to then go get with somebody else because they didn't have a vet to show them how to do it right. So then they go get the game and then it's like, oh, I got the game now, all right now, but you kind of miss your window, you know what I'm saying. Like Steph is Steph because he was able to push through that window when he got the opportunity in year five, you know, and like you start looking at guys who did it and push through their windows. They probably had some great vessel runs.

We had Jermaine O'Neill come through there.

We had.

Uh, Richard Jefferson comes like, we had great vets come through there. And David West came in and even though we had one championship, said we were still young, so we were still get wild. D Wes Andre come in the game. They settled the game down, like we needed that. Although we had one championship before, it was like, yeah, we know how to win and we got to skill, but we needed those young We come out there with me and Steph be fucking throwing it out the bottles.

You know these teams don't have that and it's a problem.

Yeah.

That that hurts me deeply man.

Watching I was at a Aces game this summer and I was sitting next to John Wall.

That just doesn't sit well with me.

Bro.

I know what happened in Washington, Bro, but this man can help a team just for that main reason, long as the veterans understand when you come in there what it's all about. Yep, I think that he deserved. What if people was in Orlando to try to help out those young guards. I'm just saying, I'm just giving names.

Man.

It's just to me, they're just not a lot of knowledge. Man, it's like you need to knowledge.

You got it.

Yeah, when you got the knowledge, the story it is relatable. Sometimes you just can't relate to that young coach you just got out of college and just want to, you know, watch films and get rebounds for you need somebody that got stories or can watch the film and tell you what's coming or how you fit in or know you ain't that you are more like this, you know what I mean. And so having that insight kind of you kind of lose that, you know, with the VET, with not having a VET in the room, and so.

That young dude, he don't develop.

He wind up getting training, get training, get traded, and then it's you know, luck of the jaw for some of these really young talented kids to find that team at some point and stick. And you know, it's just not having veterans who can identify if they're gonna be.

Good or not, you know what I mean.

Like sometimes a coach shut out, man, he gonna be all right, I got him, you know what I mean. And you need that personal care and that's not being exemplified. I don't think hardly any of these rosters. But that's the difference between, you know, the teams that want to win championships and develop young talent and the teams that want to stand in the middle.

Of the Yeah, for sure, sure, no doubt, you know.

And just speaking of vets, obviously, like you said, been at Memphiss two thousand eighteen, it's a dream where you're still to coach in the NBA at some point.

Yeah, for sure, I definitely want to coach an NBA. Man.

I get my juices flooring when I sit in the arena, when you gave me those seats, I'm just watching y'all going, Man, I could because I feel like I can help a lot of young guys, Drake, because I know the game. I played the game. They still respect my brand and who I am. I feel like my game is my coaching is really built more for the NBA. In college, I'm happy to be here because I'm home. It's come full circle. I love my city, I love my school.

Yeah, I definitely want to see you in the league. Man.

Oh yeah, City.

I mean just I feel like your knowledge with the pros, you know what, I mean, and just you know, insight with the pros and you know, even watching men, it's just your concepts, like all of those are pro schemes, pro concepts, and you need professionals.

You know what I mean.

And man, if you can work with the talent, you know, professional high level talent and get in today's psyche and give them what you got, like, that's what the league needs, you know what I mean. And these coaches that have been there, coaches who have played, you know, and coaches who have paid their dues that's been around these young kids, someone like you who got endless amount of stories and.

You lived it. You know what I'm saying. You're like you you are really about this life.

I would love to see that, you know, with top tier talent, you know what I mean.

I just think it's about building relationships with the guys because when I get there, because I'm going to be there, It's just about building a relationship with the young studs like Apollo and those guys, you know, And it's it's something that I enjoy me. I'm a ball I'm a gym rat. I'm a ball guy. I live in the gym. I love the gym. I told that to the Orlando Magic a couple of years ago. I am a gym

So I'm from sagon Off, Michigan, and I've always heard stories about I don't know the history, but I know at one point your agent was.

From saging On.

Yeah, yeah, the Posting Brothers.

Absolutely, and I saw.

I've always heard these stories about and I, and then I try to incorporate it with my own knowledge and my own experiences. I know in signing with Nike, for most guys, Nike owns the logo that then goes on your shoe. I was always told that you through your agent y'all came up with the idea of the one cent logo and that you owned your own logo. And then I want to say, is that true? And if so, what was the idea being that, because that one penny legendary.

I'm going to be very honest, Nike owns one percent more than me. They owned, they owned the logo. But it's like, I'm right there, so it's not like I own my own logo. I wish And I was talking about this in my agents some years ago, and because MJ the way he gets it done, I was like, man, I should have tried to get my own logo and own but now he's so smart.

They've been a blessing to me. Bro. You know how Nike is.

Man, it's the first class, first class all the way, still making my shoes. But I wish I owned my own logo, but I own them. But I own a lot of it, oh god, percentage of it. But it's it's just a marriage. That to me, that just bitch man, because they put me on the map, you know, along with my game, and they pumped me out there and they did what they had to do, so that I wish your story was true. It's still you know, on a large majority, I don't own the entire entire logo.

That's incredible. I love ni Man.

I gotta I gotta ask about Little Penny since we on the one.

Little Penny was crazy.

Man.

It's just it was this advertising agency that worked for Nike called Whiton and Kennedy, and man, they came up Stacey Wall as the guy's name. They came up with the alter ego because I was just a silent assassin and Little Penny was. He was a ship talker, he was a guy anybody was last night. He ain't gonna say it, but I'm gonna tell you my man is about to bust you up. So that worked out, man, And to me, it was comedy because it was Chris Rock. And I heard that they went after Martin Lawrence back

Man.

He took it to another level.

Man.

He made it feel like that was like your real homeboy, you know what I mean. Like we felt like Little Penny was like, hey man, that gotta be his potna.

He gotta be made out for like one of your best friends.

And like, yeah, shut up and be quiet that that that character is I mean utterly iconic. You know me as a you know, entertainer, a writer, a creator. Man, I look at that Little Penny as a reference for you know a lot of things that you know I do creatively.

But I mean as far as like the dynamic that shit.

Man, they did a phenomenal job, bro phenomenal.

The pool party, Dog.

Super Bowl party, Pool party, Tyer Banks, the whole deal.

The Tyron Banks. That was crazy.

That was crazy, bro out the Nike man, Phil Knight, I got that's legendary.

Man.

Top five point guards ever, we like a good this Top five point guards from down.

Bro.

I'm talking about magic because that's my guy. I'm putting Steph in there for sure. It's tough for me, man, because so many.

Gets tough and something.

Throw my boy GP in there because he played both sides of it. I'm going to Gary.

Payton absolutely, absolutely.

You gotta put Jake Kid in there. Jay gets tough.

Man and I got so many guys, man, like.

You got CP, you got John Stocks, and you got Steve Nash. Steve uh.

I'm thinking about all the dream teams here, man, I might I might go.

Steph Magic, Gary Payton, Jason.

I know I'm in that five. But I'm just saying the other person. I'm just saying me. That's why I'm leaving. Okay, do that way. But I'm not slighting anybody else because I'm a huge fan of a lot of people. Bro, all those guys stocked in, all those guys, but you know, you got to have someone that you know you like more than othering. Those are my guys. Those guys that I named so and they were all legends. They're all legends.

Yeah, for sure, one thousand percent.

It's I mean, the reality is those It's hard to make a list, man, It's the NBA.

It's the greatest players ever. Like, it's never going to be.

Easy to make a list, and someone's always going to be left off of somebody else's list.

That's just the way it is.

Yeah, because I know awful lot of guys list. They're naming their guys, so it is what it is. But I know they still respected my game. So it's all good.

Last one before we get out of here. What do you see for your Memphis basketball team achieving this year? Y'all off to an incredible start, starting starting up conference play. Yeah, what do you foresee for this group that you currently have?

Yeah, I got a special group of guys.

Man. Obviously, making the NCAA Tournament's an one thing, and when you get in the tournament, you know that anything can happen. I'm the guy in my seventh year. Now, I've gotten so much more wiser about how I see things. I want to be the best team playing in March. You know, I've never really said that. I've said I want to make the NCAA Tournament, want to win a championship. But I've learned to continue to grow every single day. And once you get in you have as great a

Amazing.

Oh gee, we appreciate.

You, man, I appreciate y'all too, man, sure God, God Man appreciate you, yes, sir. The volume