The Draymond Green Show - Gilbert Arenas

Welcome back to The Draymond Green Show. Our next guests. I'm excited to have because you know, this guy obviously great basketball player, had a really good career. Actually a lot of people who I've talked to has said it's the best player they've ever played with, Like most talented they've played with. Like several people I'm talking Andre Dalla, Richard Jefferson, like real NBA guys, like all stars I have all said best player they played with. Uh No, chill,

gil Gilbert Arena's my brother. Welcome to the show. I appreciate you for having me. Thank you for having me absolutely. Um. You know, first off, you know, just getting into early life. You know, born in Tampa, Florida. At what age did you move to the valley uh and you know out here in Los Angeles. Yeah, so my dad decided to become an inspired actor. You know, I wanted to do the Hollywood life. So around seven is when we took the journey, um from Tampa to uh CALLI uh didn't

work out so well. You know, was homeless for a little bit, lived in a car for a little bit, and then um, because he didn't have his his ship together, he uh shipped me back to the Tampa But until he got to the you know stable, he was working with Chuck Norris, Mike Tyson, bodyguarding for Mike Tyson, John Claude Van Dam And once he got situated, I came back out around ten. Okay, what effect do you feel

like it had on you? Moving on her? Because like la as you know, is a hot bed for talent in the basketball out here is dire For Florida, it's more of a football state. What effect did that have on your life and moving out here? That's the funny. Parnt I was a football player, real I was. Yes, I was a straight football player, baseball player, so nothing about basketball. And my dad was making ends meet coaching basketball. So he was coaching and refereeing, right, So I'll just

be sitting there or playing outside at the park. So I never really paid attention to basketball. And then what ended up happening is one of my friends in school lived next to the park, so I used to go watch him play. He's like, I'm trying out, So I was like, should I will try out too? And then whatever he said, I just copied point guard point guard right, you know. It was one of those things. And then, um, you know that's how I got started. Yeah, my boy,

Bobby Mitchell. Ye, that's crazy. Yeah, going back there, that's that's NUSU. You go through finished school here, go through high school, you go to University of Arizona. Um, you know, play for the great Lou Olson. What was that experience like as a freshman going into Arizona? I know, those legendary coaches like that can be really tough on freshman now. You know. You know what's funny, um it if it wasn't for Loot, I probably would have made it to

the NBA. I probably would have been kicked out of school. Um. You know, I was young. I was seventeen going in, so I was real immature, right. I was like it was I was twelve going into college as most of us, like the kids side of me, just want to do everything that I can possibly can, paintball, shooting like I did everything, fire, alarm, ringe and still in the go

karts or the golf carts from the security. So lud Olsen didn't penalize me on the basketball court for the immature stuff I was doing outside of the court, and he's like, you know what if the school decides to penalize you, you won't be able to play this. So that's if you mess up here, they gonna take it

away from you. I don't need to do that. And then from there made me understand like what this can affect this and then if I don't want this affect of this court, then I got to really, you know, calm down on this side of the on this side of the lines. Absolutely, And your sophomore year you go on, you win Pac ten Player of the Year, you carry squad to the national championship game where y'all eventually lose

to do But what was that? What was that year? Like, you know, you have a decent freshman year, good freshman year, and then really t taking that jump that next year? What was like, what happened with you? Was it to confidence jump? Obviously he's working on your game, but what helped you take that next step that next your sophomore year. You know, just like anything, you know, like our rookie our rookie season, you know, we don't know what to expect when we get there, right you know, Um, you

know we're watching on TV. It seems faster, seems slower, you know. You know, so that first year it was like I'm just playing just off field. You know. Then once you know, um, once I got into my second year, the game slowed down. I got smarter. Um, I understood the rules, more understood players, understood concept and schemes. So you know, when we all got into our second year, it was we're going for the championship. Um. You know, we thought our my rookie season, my freshman season, that

we were good enough to win it. But we was no Cincinnati, you know what I mean absolutely, And that's Kenyan Martin and those guys that the time, right, yes, Damar Johnson, Kenyan Martin, uh Logan, um, Kenny Satterfield. So they were stacked, but there was there was rugged there was a rugged group. We was you know, he was all for next and stuff. They were just you know, they was rugged. Um. You know, so going into you know,

the tournament that year, we was really like really filling ourselves. Hey, we blew, y'all, we blew the No need to go there. They can look up to history if they want to. We're not doing no Michigan State slander here. However, I watched that. I watched that game, you know, like you know us you guys duke Illinois that year was was good. I think Frank Frank Robinson Frank something. Frank was there, um and Maryland was yes, you know, so it was it was five teams that that could have could have

won it all that year. Okay, and you know then you you decide to take that next step after after your sophomore year drafted the thirty first overall pick by the Golden State Warriors, number one. What why do you think or maybe you know, why did you go second round with the talent that you had, the year that you had. Then you go to go in the second round? What was that about? You know back then them they didn't it was them tweeters. And I would tell me

about that word. Yeah, I was. I was a tweeting guard, so I wasn't I wasn't big enough to be a shooting guard and wasn't a point guard, right, so I was stuck in the middle. So my comparison was like a smaller Contino mobile. Um. Yeah, so I was a smaller Contino mobile. If you look in that draft and said I'm the best one on one player as draft, um me doing some things like um like like you know through the draft, like I didn't want to do the trade no tests me. It was it was more

of a m an ego thing, right. I trained my ass off, like I really, like really ran miles and then you put this test and say eighteen minutes, but nobody can win. That didn't said, well there has to be a winner. We just can't just all go to eighteen and then you know, like, nah, I want you know, somebody sat on here three hours. I want that type of you know what I mean? So I'm like, why why do I need to prove that I'm in shape? And then what does this test got to do with drafting?

And what does this test got to do with training camp? So whatever you see here's meaningless to be honest, because me being in shape now doesn't have nothing to do with me being in shape with that season start. So like the little things like that, I just seen flaws and I attacked the flaws. That's that's interesting. That's interesting,

and I agree and I understand. I actually I worked out for the Boston Celtics UM and they were one of my one of my twenty workouts when I was coming out, and I worked out for the Boston Celtics and they had us do like this Boston Celtics three minute run or something at the end of the workout, and like, I did the run, but like, I'm not hauling ass like and it was a good learning experience for me. But I did the run. And afterwards, Danny Danny Ain't jaxx Me. Who's the president GM at the time,

Danny Aine jax Me. He's like, yeah, so you I expected you to do better in that run. Why why didn't you get more lines in the run? And I was like, well, quite frankly, I feel like the run. It's kind of to say whether I'm in shape or not, But you just watched me work out for two hours and destroy everybody, So I'm not really sure, like what the run is going to show you? You know what I'm saying, Like it's a is not basketball, just running

from line to line. And like when we just played a lot of basketball, we played one two threes, how to get out of a trap? I did everything well in this workout, So I'm just it's not sure like what I really needed to prove in this run, Like I don't that don't really work? Understand that? Ye? Like it's the draft process to me is so flawed. Um, you let players dodge players, Like if if I'm if I'm a team right and I'm I'm looking at a few guys, I want to put them together, Like this

player's dodging this player. If you're dodging this player, then why would I want you? Yes, you're not gonna take You're not taking the challenge. I want the guy that's willing to take the challenge. He's willing to say, I'm testing my skill against everybody. Because when the NBA, you can't sit games and be skinned. You know that, you know what I mean. So it's like it's it was one of those things where when you go through it and it doesn't work the way it should have, you

be like this is flawed. Like I did seventeen workouts Sacramento. I went, I went like twenty three for twenty five from three. Their excuse for us I couldn't shoot because they said, all I had a set shot. You know, that's not realistic. It can get blocked. It's too slow, And I was like, how am I going to get blocked? In fact? A pump fake? It's like it's like it just make excuses, right, you just make up excuses. Not the draft. Just say you didn't want to draft me, bro,

That's right. But no, absolutely, it doesn't. It doesn't measure your heart. It doesn't measure if you have heart, if you have a work ethic. And that's why a Hall of Famer like yourself can go in a second round and they're not and they not They miss it because this this doesn't measure this. This system doesn't measure who has it, who wants it, you know, And that's the problem with it. Absolutely, I agree, you get drafted and you get the number zero. I've heard um speculation of

why you got the number zero. But I think what's also impressive, it's like I feel like you were really the first person to really go that route like zero and kind of make that number a thing, you know what I'm saying. And I don't think people in sports or fans, I would say, really understand that, like the impact that you had on the game, Like zero was a ship number. Now zero is a very prominent number, you know. Um, but what was your reasoning for going

with number zero once you was drafted? Yeah? So actually started in college, so I was twenty five because I was a Penny Hardaway fan. So I'm you know, I was Penny Memphis Penny, I'm Penny Hardaway. So going into Arizona, um, you know, looking at get twenty five. But that was Steve Kerr's number. Ye, So they were saying they're going to retire it so you can't play in it. So I'm like, uh, I don't have any other number. So they said, all right, these two numbers are being released

this year. One in zero. The first thing I'm talking, oh, Penny. But when that zero. When I seen the zero, I was like, man, that's how many minutes they said I will play in Arizona. They said I am not a Arizona type of player, and I'm gonna play zero minute. So I was like, I want to go to zero so I can like, no matter what I'm doing, I can always look at it. And this is what they said,

you was gonna play zero minutes. So you know, So when I went to Golden State drafted thirty one, mad hot, you know through my Qubicsaconia out the window, get all out. I want that. I don't know if they have to record it, but this is a recording that you should find. I was the cockiest person when I got drafted, Like I was mad, like I don't care about this. Hey, hey, by the middle of the season, I'm gonna be starting. I don't care who's in front of me. I'm gonna

be starting. Click geez, and you are. Yeah. It ended up happening forty games. It wasn't promised like me started, Me started happening overnight. It wasn't just saying what what What was your break? Like my break was David League got hurt um I started the season. We started like sixteen and one or something, and then the rest was history.

What was your break? To kind of get you over that hump after those first forty games, it was it was Mookie Baylock basically getting kicked off the team because he wasn't being a veteran UM. Then Larry Hughes going down with an eagle spring, so I was on IR. Like back then, we didn't have G League League, we didn't have UM. So I was on IR and I'm playing like, you know, two minutes, one minute if there's a blot over with it, you know. There was no me getting a little There was none of that. So

it was she wrote a one hundred like really fast. UM. So Larry Hughes goes down, and then they took me off IR. Bobby so didn't want to start, so he's like, I'm I'm playing well at where I am right now, So putting bench for a couple of minutes, you know, let me see how the game was going. Then set me in. That sounds that sounds. That sounds like a like a true vet who knows I gotta go out here and deal with these starters. I'm gonna keep coming off the bench so I can play against these guys

coming off the bench. You're gonna deal with the starters up. Yeah, and Dave Cowen's got fired, so Dave okay, Collens got fired, and Brian Winters ended up being the coach and Brian Winters was like, you know, I'm gonna go with the guys, you know, who play hard, who work hard, who shows up every day for practice. And because I was coming in at six o'clock in the morning, you know, working

on my game, Mark Jackson like, Mark Jackson saved my career. Um, wow, mine too, by the way, Mark's mine too, by the way, Yeah no, not that one. Philly Mark Jackson. Oh okay, okay, Philly. Mark said he were teammates and he used to wake me up back sister to click and say, man, listen, don't worry about where you are. He said, I made twenty five million, and I only played twenty five games, the last twenty five games, and up made twenty five million.

And he was like, just just focus and he was just teaching me playing because I was in a funk like, man, I don't you know, I'm probably not good enough. And I was, you know, I was ready quick. I was ready to I was ready to quit. And then all of a sudden, you know, when when he said my name, I was actually ready. That's dope. I always tell people your name is getting your name, your number is getting called in the NBA, and if you're not ready, it

may never get called again. Yep, you're gonna get called once, and it is so important that you're ready for that when they call your name. I tell these young guys like man I used I used to get called in with twenty seconds ago to go guard Colby because they got the game when the shot coming up, Like that's how I got on the floor. So you have to

be ready for that name getting called. But coming out thirty first pick, you sign a two year, eight hundred million dollars excuse me, eight hundred thousand, eight hundred forty five thousand dollars contract for two years, and something very

interesting happens happened with you. And you know, for those of you out there that don't quite understand the CBA, which is the Collective Bargaining Agreement you see all these contracts and different things, it is the agreement that is the rule book, the law book, or whatever you want to call it for the NBA. It's what we have to go by. That's how what the NBA functions on is the CBA, and is they have something in their

call to Gilbert Arenas rule. For those of you that don't understand the Gilbert Arenas rule outlet Gilbert Arenas, explain the Gilbert Arenas rule to you. But you go on to sign a six year, sixty four million dollar contract after your second year in the NBA, can you explain to us to get over Arena's rule and what you went through during that period and signed and your contract in and the signing that new deal as a restrict

to free asient. Okay, so you know, like they had the bird rights, meaning like after four years, you know you get you get some type of rights. Right, So with a second year player, no second year player basically played over the mid level exception, right, So you know, the best best second rounder, but then two years you're going to sign mid level. So what ended up happening is I played above that. So, um like, I think it was forty nine million, right was the that was

the cap of Golden State. And midway through the season, I was already being like, I remember Kiki Vanderway from Denver's like, we're offering them fifty one whatever whatever they can, we're gonna go above that. So it was already be said that you're not gonna be able to afford them. Um. So during that season with coach Musselman. That second season, they were trying to try to hold the contract down by putting me in three minutes, putting you know that

that was going on. Oh yeah, yeah, that was going out because the first part of the season I was aviaciate. About eighteen six and six, you know, I became the second option at that point. Um, I'm the last five mining guy. Huh second option to who Antoine Jamison? Okay okay? Um? Yeah so anton Antoine Jamison. Um. So he was being told to keep him down. You know. So they're trying to play me three minutes and then you know, think my man Earl Boykins. Earl Boykins and UM and coach

Musselman had a great relationship. And Earl Bullkins is like, like, if you want him next year, you don't think he's going to remember this. Yeah, right, if you're losing games, you don't think you're gonna fire. You play him, play, play him right? And then you know that's when coaches I get in my bad. I'm just and then so he uh, he put me out there and I ran with it. So when we went to free agency market,

you know it all the doors already opened up. I think I was I was either number two behind lamar Odham okay in the free agency market. So, um, because of because of I only played two years, I didn't have my bird rights, meaning that Golden State can only offer me a certain amount, which was forty nine it was it was basically seven years forty nine million. Oh wow. Yeah, so seven year forty nine was the was the max that they could offer me. Denver already came out with

six year sixty fifty one. Um, so I went to go. I went listen to everyone in Golden State was the last one, and I ain't gonna lit. They had a hell of a pitch. They had a hell of a pitch, you know what I mean. Um, we were all young. We were young. Um. You know they had like a Viper Ferrari, the Lambo downstairs, the corvette, you know what I mean. So what what we were trying to do is we were trying to sign the under the table deal, you know, one year four point nine and then have

the contract already signed seven years seventy nine million. Okay, So that was the That was the deal that I was gonna sign now, and then we was both going to hold it in the vote. Um, and like bye, by the time I got to them, Golden Wizards already offered me the max they can offer me. So the owners like, whatever, whatever I have, you know, fifty eight, sixty one, sixty five, seventy five, whatever I had, it's yours,

just come. So you know, the number was the number from Washington was coming around sixty sixty to sixty four. It was somewhere around there. So when we did the calculations, you know, you take the four point nine plus the seventy nine came up around about eighty three million. By the time matched I would have already been out of my Washington deal. Yeah, you have Jason Richardson, you have me, you have Troy Murphy, right, have Yurie Welston. Next year,

you have done Levy. Someone was gonna get screwed. All of us wasn't going to get our money. And you know, it was basically like the only one that can get screwed who don't have a name is you. And I had to really take that in consideration, like if I got hurt that next year and didn't perform, you know what I mean. So I was like, you know what, as much as I want to love to stay here, I need to go and branch off myself. That's very interesting.

Like I said, for those of you, um that don't understand, as a second round pick, I actually benefited off of off the Gilbert Arenas rule. UM, because you're you're you're if, if you're a second or so if you're if you are a first round pick. For those of you out there, you have two years guaranteed. Then you have two years of player option and the team controls everything. I mean, it's not player options, I'm sorry, it's two years of

team options, so the team controls everything. As a second round pick, you can get back to the money faster. But prior to Gilbert Arend, the Gilbert Arenas rule you can only get the mid level. And then that rule changed with you, which was huge. It changed a lot for myself and change. I think Jay Crowder was able

to take it. There's so many guys. So what happened was after me, who who benefited first front, it was Carlos Boozer, Yes, yes, so which which So what happened was they did they they did, they did, you can match it. Then they added another year so they sold you know, back then it was one year deals, one one or the max two. That was it for the second round. There was no option three and there was none of that. Yes, so after the rule they added

an option three, right like, okay, just in case. So with Carlos Boozer Boozer after his second year, it's the team's option. Yes, So he already he already got a deal from Utah. He got a deal from Utah. So basically he went into the office and convinced them that you know, you know, let me out of the deal, and I just signed right now for the twenty four million, right, I'll signed right now for the twenty four million. This is where I want to stay, you know. And it

was dumb enough to do it. There was enough to do it, and he took all and he like he laughed and went and signed where he went to Utah like eighty it was like eighty sub million, okay. So who was he with prior to Utah? He was with Cleveland, he was with Lebron oh okay, so he was he was bawling. So he was basically saying like like if you signed me this year and then I go to the next year, I'm gonna be worth all of this. So right now, you know you know, twenty four million.

I signed a twenty four five year or whatever, and it's like, oh shit, okay, we'll get him for the twenty four So they let him out and he took off. That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. I want to get it with the Okay. I wonder who his asient was. I know, Cleveland Forever Hate. Yeah, that was a bad one. Like that's what you cheer like, Yeah, alright, somebody. Absolutely, And it happens. They come few and far in between, so

you gotta appreciate the ones that do happen. So you but you leave Golden State and you go sign that deal with Washington. Um, how was it adjusted? Number one? That's a whole life change, moving from the West coast of the East coast after all of those ships about how how was that adjustment different organizations? Um? How was that adjustment? Before you moving to Washington? You know, just you know, I had the relationship with the owner, you know, uh,

mister a Poland rest in peace. Um, that was my backing. That's who I talked to. That to me and him, you know, had the conversation that you know, and his his all he asked for us get me out of the Jordan era. Everyone's killing me about Jordan. I need you to make them stop talking about Jordan, and you know what happened with us, and I'm I'm indebted to you and that's all right, I got you and that yeah, yeah, yeah,

made people forget about Michael Jordan. That's tall ties, Yeah, because you know, it's like, you know, it's think about it. It's mj and you was supposed to be an owner and you didn't hire him as an owner. He was getting killed in the media, you know, so he was like, you know, make them forget about this, you know, and focused on him, you know, the team, and I'm gonna

go out there and do my best. And it's like as long as as long as you're you know, doing what you're doing, I'm gonna push for you because you know, he was one of the original four owners. Uh okay, yeah, so he has pool Pool Yeah for sure, Yeah, absolutely absolutely. It makes a ton of sense. Uh. You become a three time All Star, which is huge. Um, career going great, then you run into the unfortunate incident um with Javar's Crista.

How did you think or do you think that situation really changed the way Gilbert Arenus was treated in the NBA the way Gilbert Arenus was looked at. Do you think that really ended up changing the outcome of your career? No? Before that, Um, I had three knee surges in fourteen months. Yeah, you had microfractures, right, Yeah, I had to. Yeah. That just ruined everyone's career absolutely, you know, so I was

part of that experiment. Um, so truth being told, I wasn't the same player when I got into the trouble. I wasn't the same player. There's my owner just passed. Um, them being loyal to me, wasn't It was more business at that point? Um? You know eight, mister a Poland signed his guide to Max the Elita to me either because mister And this was this was this what happened the year before. Um, when I opted out of my contract, I'm hurt. Didn't only play two games. Mister Poula said,

I don't care what they saying. You did your job. Whatever you want, I'm gonna sign it. Whatever you want. I don't care what you want, I'm gonna sign it. I don't care what the doctor said, I don't care what the general manager saying. So you're my guy. You lived up to yours. I'm gonna little up to mine and signment to the one eleven. Right. So he didn't listen experts, he didn't listen to the general manager, he

didn't listen to no doctor. He didn't care. Um. So once he passed um, I remember, I remember We're at the ceremony and Brendan Haywood was like, uh, he looked at me and said, uh, yeah, they're gonna come. You better be on your best behavior. They're gonna come after that contract. Man, I'm untouchable. Man ain't doing nothing to me, right, No,

he was. He was right. I was wrong, right. So you know, going through that situation with Javaris, it was it was real shocking because it's like my whole thing was like, man, you can do a hundred things right, you may one mistake, idiot races your whole legacy. Absolutely, your whole legacy, like my whole legacy is, is cleared out for one bad decision, one bad judgment, you know what I mean. And that's what didn't sit well with me. Like the Wizards part, you know that's expected, you know,

that's business. I get it. I under I understand that I would have did the same thing, you know, especially now when you're older. Um, you know, it's it's business. It's just you know, I gave them a chance to do it, you know, and they have to make their decisions, so you know. But my thing was just worldwide over is like, you know, this one thing is what you're judging me off of now, and that's that's that, you know. I couldn't I couldn't sleep at night with that, Like

that's where I just lost the love. Like it's like I was batting one hundred percent, i missed one shot. I'm the sorriest on the plan. And then that's where you know, I really kind of had lost the love at that moment, you right down, just moving through the motions. Turn every Thursday into payday with TNT Thursdays on FanDuel Sports Book. Doesn't matter if you win or lose. Fan duels given all customers ten dollars in bonus bets every Thursday. Just bet a ten dollar bill or more same game

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an official sports betting partner of the NBA. So you lose love for that, You're also battling the microfracture stuff and injuries from that. And I know at towards the end of your career where the last year you end up playing, you you went over to Shanghai and played with the Shanghai Sharks. Um, do you ever look look back at your time in Shanghai or do you feel like you weren't just quite the player that you were

anymore to do that? But do you ever look back at your time in Shanghai and wonder or wish you would have stayed over there longer? After looking at the business that Stefan Marbory Marbarry end up building and going over to China and kind of making a career out of it after the NBA Nazi So when when I when? So I was before with the Shanghai I was working out with the Clippers. So I was playing with the Clippers that summer. You know, they had opened, Jim Bella

was there, everybody was there. So I'm playing well. Um, and then the Lakers opened up their their practice facility two weeks before training camp started, so that's when like Steve Nash was there. That's when that team was coming in. So I'm playing well. Like you know, Eddie Jordan my my my head coach, he's the assistant coach. Ordan. Mike Brown came over. So I'm ten asses up right, So I'm talking to Eddie and he's like, what are you

gonna do? He said, because they really like him. So they're they're they're trying to see if you want to go to the At the time, I think it still was the d League and you play on the DV team, get all the understanding of the offense. I's like, the what offense? The one I created? The Princeton Like like, I don't have to worry about that. I know that back of my head. And he was like, you know

that's what they're saying. Just to stay in shape because you know they don't want to the season starts and he's just in limbo mode. So I was like, you know, I'm thinking about going to um, China, you know, are going to China. Get my little swag back over there shooting shit, you know, every shot. You know, I'm thinking about the ball. It's like that would be that would be a good thing. Um. I didn't know Doc Rivers

was invited me to training camp for the Clippers. Um, but you know it was when I heard about it, I'm like, nah, because they just signed JJ Reddick, Um, they got Jamal Crawford, Chris Paul. So I'm like, well, I'm not gonna play. I mean, I'm not. I'm not gonna put myself in a situation where I could get some time and show I still got it. So I end up going to you know, I ended up, you know, going to China. Make the team. The coach there, I'm glad.

I don't even remember this motherfucking name. I'm glad I don't remember his name. He made me train ten days straight, two of days what right, Yeah, to see if I I was in shape and still if I had it, like you know what I mean, and just twirled my body. So by the time he got to the first game we're playing against Steph Mulberry, came down, hit the three on them, came back down, pulled my growing, pulled three muscles in my growing. Yeah, so pulled three muscles on

my growing. And that's what kind of hurt my situation there. So I had to come back to the States, you know. I finished the season like, you know, hobbling here and there, came back to the States, rehabbed all summer, and then I was playing with Boogie. I was playing with Boogie and me and Boogie was playing well. Um he said he was gonna give me an invite to play for Sack. Um, so it's gonna go, you know, Sack or go back to China. And I played in the Drew League, Uh,

toured my my niscus jesus. Yeah. So it was one of those things like all right, I give it up. I get it, I get it, I understand, I give it up. So that was really how how it kind of ended that. You know, every time I put some much working in the little a little knack, let me know, let it go. Yeah yeah, yeah. You you you quickly start like moving into the podcast space and like different media opportunity. What what made you branch into that space

so fast? Because guys weren't doing that, like I have a podcast now in the NBA and Patrick Brevly, But you started moving into that space really fast. What was it that took you into that space so fast? And obviously you got no chill guil. Now for those of you out there, Gil's arena is premiering soon. Um, you could tell us more about that. But what what really

took you into that space so fast? Okay? So, uh, the NBA was during this experiment called uh like players diary, right, so they was they was looking for players that can be like the diary players. It was like me, um done Levy as a bunch of non other you know, they didn't have no personalities, right, Um. So what ended up happening is you know, just like you you put a mic, you know what to do with it? Did

you put the biking my mout? So what happened was I blew up like like you know, my diary was the hottest thing moving on NBA dot com right like our it was you know, like it really helped me sell my brand to you know, to to everyone. So when I was done playing and people started talking about podcasting. See podcasting. It wasn't how we're doing it now. It was just audio. Yeah, and I'm like, I'm not no

radio dude, man, Like you know what I mean. So I was like, man, just supported video wise and then we'll go from there. So it was like then it became video podcasting. Yeah. My first three episodes, I was like, I don't I adn't like it. It didn't sound right. And then it put it out anyway, and then everyone started liking it. And what I decided it was like,

this is like new media. Yeah, this is new media because players get to talk to players both understand each other, We both understand how to protect each other, you know what I mean. So absolute, this is this is the lane. We're different from the big media who who has no They don't care about the person themselves, you know what I mean. They don't have an interview of us. They just talk about us. Yeah, but we need each other. And if I say something about a payer, it's not

a grudge. I can say something bad about him today, I can say something good about him tomorrow. You know what I mean. This is not you know, I don't I don't grudges against a player you know, and when players see that, Okay, okay, he gave him my credit here, Okay, cool, they don't take it personal. You know, ESPN, they gonna they go, they hold him like you did something personally to them. Well, I think with a lot of this media, man, you start, you start like these guys, they're no longer

just dissecting basketball game. They're like taking shots at people character, you know, like I had, like I had, I had an issue last week. Uh and I spoke about it on the podcast or a week maybe two weeks ago now whatever it was when Russ got traded away from from the Lakers. Now, like I said, I'm not in the Lakers locker room, so I can't speak on how Russ was, how anyone was tourist Russ um, what his

attitude was. I can't speak on any of that. But the entitlement in media today is what really Like like I, you know, I would speak like you just said, the new media, like I speak on this new media thing. And initially when I started speaking on it, everyone think I'm talking about like, oh, athletes doing media like athletes's been doing me. Like I'm not the first athlete to media.

I have a podcast. But when I was when I first started speaking to new media, the new media to me was or is like going about media a certain way, you know, like, um, there used to be a term, as you know, called a homer in media. That term

is non existent anymore. Like you see people on TV actually cheering for a team that they're critiquing against another team, as if you're not a human being and you don't feel a way about this person, like that just doesn't come into play, like you can just push all these emotions, and so like the term homer is no more, which I think is ridiculous because it doesn't allow you, it doesn't allow you to do unbiased journalism, Like you can't.

You can't give an unbiased opinion. You're giving me your biased opinion, which like, all right, it's one thing if your biased opinion is basketball. But now these biased opinions are turning into character characterized opinions, and I don't like that. And so Dave mcminiman, who I don't really know, from a can of paint, he says, Russell Westbrook was a vampire in the locker room. I'm sitting there listening to it, and I'm like, Okay, that's strong and then he's just stopped. Now.

I was like, if you're gonna say someone's a vampire in the locker room, A, that's something that someone has said to you, and I know how this business work. They probably said it in passing, like man, I can see it, like somebody like, man, that vampire out of here. And then you run on TV and you say they got rid of a vampire in the locker room. That's a character hit that can affect his livelihood and his

next job. So if you're gonna say something like that, you better have example ABCD and E to validate you calling that man a vampire in the locker room. Right, And so that's been my whole thing, like with media, like it's not what it used to be, is now what it's intended to be. So I agree one hundred percent on the conversations that you're saying about like players, interview and players, because that's that's my number one goal

with this show. It's like it's a safe space. Um, if you say something in this interview and like people you're hearing now, but if you say something in this interview that's gonna get you in trub we're taking that shit out like we're protecting each other. Like I'm not about to put that out there just to get you like to get some clicks and get get some people Like, No, we're taking that out like protecting guy because I look at it like this, If you protect someone, they'll always

come back. I don't need to get some clicks off somebody else. Listen that, And and I think that's what people started realizing too with me, Like you know, I'll have the t os. You know, he's a personality. Nick Young's um Fizzdale, right, and you know they'll say some things and you know, and then we get to really like gauge it, like what I want what I want that clip to be out about me? Um, now he's you know, he's trying to get a job. This is this you know what Hey the last twenty minutes cut

it right. Yeah, And there was a point where you know, my man, t O, that's my man, and as a friend, you know, just not an acting as a friend like when Golden State was trying to get me back. I was on a private jet with t O, right, so as a friend, you know, you know some of the comments he was making as a as a friend I'm taking it out. And if you want to sit on your platform, okay, that's you know what I mean. But I'm I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna. It goes against

our friendship. And if I allow this to go out just to go viral against some clipbings, So that's going out. We keep our friendship. I come on your show, you come on my ship. And that's what athletes are doing. And I think that's what the media of the old media is not really understanding the athletes. We don't we don't fuck with y'all like that. Yeah, Like we rock with each other no matter what we say. We know we can call each other and say out of my bag,

you know, I was just I fucked up. We could do that whole thing. Like sometimes I will say something and I DM hey, I would just yeah, yeah, I want to I want respect that when I was thinking and body came out wrong, but this is what I was thinking, and you know, and that's the space that athletes are starting to move in where they can trust, you know, the podcast is knowing that I have editing, you know, editing control and whatever you don't like, hit

me up, we'll remove it. M Yeah, I think it's incredible. I think that's dope. I think that's what's made this space like for me, And it's what it's what made it's what's made the space one that I really want to live in, you know, because and you know someone, someone just says something to me yesterday, I practice, Um,

he's an assistant GM of Oars. He said, Yo, I appreciate the way you're going about doing media because you're you're creating a lane for guys, because lane, like guys don't see it anymore and be like, oh, you have to sell out, like you have to say things that you really don't want to say, you have to attack guys like you don't want to Like I know, I can. I can be very critical of Steph's game and not

attack him like I could. I can be very critical of um, Anthony Edwards, the game Anthony Edwards have or the week he's I can be very critical of that and not attack him. And and that's what we see a lot of media today, and I just totally disagree with it. And so my goal is to change that. My goal is to make that style of journalism obsolete because media it's becoming more and more prevalent. It's as accessible as it's ever been, and that will only continue

to grow and become more and more accessible. And you just can't have people out here doing a lazy job like like just attacking people. Man, that shit tired, Like nobody want to hear that. No more, like all the stuff we got going in the world, and you think I want to sit here and listen to you attacks on one character because they missed the jump shot, Like

we're not doing that. It was so funny as That's why you know, with my new show, Gills Arena, I signed with an underdog fantasy right, and my whole thing is I wanted ESPN style right where it can be a bunch of us. We don't have to be in a suit. I don't have to tell you about the game wearing suiting time, okay, And I mean had the same format, so you can see I'm creating the same format,

the same layout, talking sports without attacking character. Yeah. Right, So even with Kyrie, I remember probably I was watching someone and they were like, you know, I'm not going to attack the character we're talking about the basketball player, So I'm you know, I tuned off hitting let me see if he can actually know the difference, right, I mean,

I want to see if he knows the difference. And then the person he's talking about, it's the character you're talking about, the man you didn't say nothing about his back. The basketball part of the player is how does he come to practice? Is he practicing hard? How does he get along with his teammates when he when he gets on that court, is he performing right? Like? You know, what's his practice happens? What's this like? What does this

eating habits? Like? That's the if you're gonna if you're gonna say basketball critique, that part, ye like when you start talking about, oh he missed you know this because of you know, COVID and that's personal. That's the man. That's the man. I want to know when he's between those lines, when you're talking about basketball, what is he doing? That's all I care about. I don't need the man part that can figure itself out. I'm judging this man part right here and right head, I'm cooling you know

the rest of the stuff. That's not my problem. He gets on the court, how did he get along with his teammates? All right, he's at the end of the bench, Okay, he's shaking hands. Okay, he's cheering. I'm good. Yeah, absolutely he can we understand that whole element we we we played. These guys haven't played right, so they don't really know the difference between the two. Yes, hey, they do, but they're just gonna attack to play the character himself. Yes,

chat the man. They're not gonna talk nothing about his skills or what he brings to the game itself. Absolutely no. Before we get out of here, I know I've taken a lot of your time, and I appreciate you. You mentioned Nick Young, who I had as a teammate, won a championship with I know y'all relationship, y'all super tight. Um, I mean swave fight as hell now. But and initially and initially getting out of the like him being out of the league. You look at Dwight Howard now, who's

playing overseas. I think, and I want to I just want to get your take on this as someone who's done it at the highest level. Vets, the dying breed that is Vets in the NBAUM, the effect that you yourself thinks has on the NBA. It's like, I'll give you my opinion after, but just do you think the lack of vets in the NBA now it's problematic for the league moving forward. Yes, I really do think so,

because just like your vet, he was once young. Right, so with this older guy, he's been there, he's understood, right, he's been a star, He had to sit the bench, he got booted in a sarna, you know, he got fined, he's done, did every single thing where when a young player comes in, like when I had John Wall, you know, and I and you know me and Washington wasn't seeing Ida high. But that had nothing to do with me

and John Wall relationship. You know, like John Wall here, come to the closet, give you a hundred thousand dollars worth of stuff. You don't spend your money. You don't need to spend your money, right, don't try to you know, match player for player on clothes and stuff like that. Right, uh, right before I was leaving, you know, you know I'm telling them how to you know, take the bus early, you know, go to sleep early. You know, if you're gonna party, you know you're gonna have to do this

this this um. You know, get into a routine. You know, practice is practice, but get yourself an in season routine, learn how to be a pro and do not accept winning. Winning is not something you accept accept right you You let it affect you, like you when you lose. Like if you start accepting it, you become a loser. Right Yeah, Absolutely, what ends up happening if you don't have a veteran telling the young stars how to be stars, then what

ends up happening? They're learning on the same they're learning the same thing I learned. When if you have a veteran, he takes away some of those pitfalls. Absolutely did They take away some of them pitfalls. So without the without that leadership to help the new generation, you just have the same cycle of things going on. So I agree,

I agree. I think you know when I look back, like on my career, the value of vets that I had, Jared Jack, Jermaine, O'Neil, Carlin, Richard Jefferson, your ex teammate, Yah, like theyve league like them my vets, David West, Yeah, some good them my first few years in the league.

They're my vets. Those are the guys that taught me Zaza Petulia my fifth year, four fourth year, like, those are the guys that taught me how to take care of your body, how to act, what time you should be showing up, Fight this battle, don't fight that battle. And like at the end of the day, I'm gonna grown, man,

I'm gonna still pick and choose my own battles. But to have that guidance, Like you look around some of these teams down't like Houston don't have a VET, Nope, but they got this promise, all this promising young talent with with no veteran leadership. Or you look at OKAC. They don't have a VET who no one to teach them, no one, no one to teach them. So they're all learning.

They're all learning, and that's the They're all learning on the fly, learning bad habits, you know, you know, lose in laughing thinking it's going to like that's you know, a veteran you know, like somebody like uh u D. Right, yeah, absolutely, you know, you know u D has been there so long that you know when he speaks, when he does speak, you you're gonna listen. Absolutely, You're you're you're you're gonna

listen no matter what. So you know, I think like having you know, two vents on your team, even on the even on the bench, like it seems like you know, there's fifty two people on benches now, you know what I mean, they got assistant coaches as they got players, you know, start bringing some of these stars back. Yeah, because you gotta. I think somehow they think a star

player hasn't grown up. So if I take Ida and Iverson and I put him around my young guy, he's still gonna be the twenty year old Alan Iverson Like no, he like he's he's learned. He see where his career would happened to his career. He's gonna I this man like, hey, no, no, no no, no, no, no, no, not gonna do. That's what I was like. You know what I mean. You have those guys that they had pitfalls, Let them teach these guys. We're not to have that pitfall a you

know what I mean. And um, you know, like you know I can talk to a John Moran and be like, hey man, you know, um, to move up in this world, we have to pick our friends wisely, right, We can't take everybody to the picnic, absolutely, So you pick the guys that can handle themselves in this picked in these rooms, you know what I mean, there's there's friends you hang

out with at home. There's friends you hang out with rooms, pick them, Yeah, coordinate, like because your company, you show me your company, I can show you where you canna end up. Back facts, you know, because there's some point you don't want to be getting your name ring because of something one of your friends did. So you know what I mean. You know you still got to be young, but still be mindful of you know the things they have to be as professional leg they have to protect

your brand. Also they're gonna hang with you, they need to pretend they're you and protect the brand. Also, they need to protect your brand almost more than you protected, Yes, because they also have to protect you from yourself from you good friends in this position, good friends, good friends. Yeah, good friend. You trying to go to the club. And then I'm like, nah, man, you not no, not to night, man, Let's get on out of here. You absolutely, I'm trying

to drive to take mckeys. They don't care about they don't care about ruffling your feathers. Yes, you know, and then that's just gonna be yes man, Yeah, absolutely, man, before we get out of here, I know you watch a bunch of NBA basketball who you got taken home? The MVP this year. Who you got winning the championship? You know I got you know, you know right now as I think your kids is leading because they're number one and playing having that triple double season. Um, you

know Mbid is doing what mb does? I mean, he's most likely're gonna be runner up. If if Jayson Tatum's got runner up? Um, Greek the freak is always somewhere to miss and what I mean, but it's always But you know, I think Yoki, if they finished off strong and he continues to, you know, have this triple double year, it's gonna be a great, great storyline. You know, absolutely when it comes to the championship, it's it's no different than how you guys came into the playoffs, right Whoever

clicks the best when time comes. I don't know if anyone has put themselves in a situation yet where they're dominant then verse good. No one's afraid of no. No, It's like in the first round, no one's you know, so right now there's no real team that says all right, Um that isn't for sure. You know, dark Horse take home. You know Katie changes things over in sons um. It's like it's like when he came to you guys, you

guys already had the infrastructure. You're just adding another piece versus you know what Brooklyn happened, all three new pieces trying to figure out how they're gonna do it. So, um, I want to see how that the first week of you know, him and the Son's look. Um. But for the most part, it'll seem like there's a real dominant So it's basically wherever it clicks at the right time. You know, coming into the playoffs is is you know, you know, it's all seating two. Yeah, yeah, it's all

seating you know what I mean. It's it's you know that team that when they get into the playoffs and everybody's healthy, everybody's clicking. You're looking at a sixth seed that that was the champions Laue ship. That's like, hey back, we're back, you know what I mean. So it's it's it's you always got to be mindful to look at the like you just watch it. Yeah, I just watch

and see all right, who matches up? All right? Okay, like damn okay, if this is their role, this might be you know, you know, you start watching like that, so it's like we still have about two weeks before we can start seeing what's playing out. Absolutely, man, one more question, I'm sorry, why why does European players not get the same flak for winning championships or not then US American born guys for instance? I saw a list today, Stephen, they put out and like it was like players with

under the most pressure to win a championship. I think James Hard was one, CP was two, Jason Tatum was three, Joker was four. Joker has two MVPs. Joker has two MVPs more than likely about to be a third MVP and he's older than JT. H Why is it that he's fourth but JT's third and Luca wasn't even on the list right like just now you obviously Luca's a

little younger than JT. But I feel like over the years, European players has not had the same um caught the same flat I went in a championship as US players, and I don't understand that, And I wanted to know if you feel the same way about that. It's really a not to be honest. Do they do they think that they're even capable of winning it by themselves? Um?

Do they hold them to the greatness of what they hold the American players too, right, so when you have a Luca, when you have your kitch at the end of the day, it's like, yeah, they're good. European players are coming over there, dominating, but do we hold them to the same standard. So it's like they get a free they get they get a free easy pass, right, they get a free easy pass versus you know someone you know you, you, you know me, you know, you

know what I'm about. Um, it's them. Might be the color of the skin a little bit, you know what I mean. You know the America, remember the American white boys gone. They adapted the black side of the game, right, and they they adopted the athletic part of the game. So they don't have the same fundamentals that they used to have. Ye you know what I mean. So when you name when when when you when I see, oh, the the white players, and then you put Luca in there,

like that's European stopping. I wanted you. I can't say, you know, he's competed with Larry Burden. No, no, no, no no, no, that's Hayward. That's true. So you know that's that group, you know, So I think you know, they're trying to find a way to ease the Europeans in, to make it a broader game. And I don't think they want to really give them that that umphit um, but we're mentally built for it right now. You know, the jury

is still out on the Europeans, you know. I mean, you know we see Luca amazing, Dirt amazing, Pajia amazing. The ones that came over have been amazing, right, Um, but they need to start understanding that there's a lot from everywhere. There's a lot. Now, I mean, you can really put an All Star game together the overseas versus the American Yeah, you can. Really, you can really do that now, you know what I mean, because you know you'd be surprised who's from who's not American? Absolutely, like

so like Shay is not American? Yeah, yeah, you can. You can really have an All Star game where it's so you know what I mean. You need to play it, play it down the middle. Now, you know, give the same respect to them as you do us, which means you have to put the same type of responsibility on them.

Just like there's no way JT is supposed to be in this and this this, this this conversation right now, know that why why yeah you know he's twenty four, twenty five years old, absolutely like Jaylee Brown is older than him. But you put more like shout out like but that's you know that. But that's what media does, right, Yeah, they're trying to set you up so you can fail

no one. And I, like I said, I I can agree with you one like these Europeans today, Luca Joker, Yannis Yanni's accomplished defeat, uh Joel like in Joels African but just you know from another continent like these these these guys, they real guys, and they like, these guys are top ten guys in our league, like majority of top five, but they top ten guys in our league. And I think I didn't even think about it from the perspective you're saying like it's a knock, Like I

didn't even think about that. But what I will say is whoever is knocking them at something like at some point you gotta stop, like these guys are as good as anyone in the league, uh, if not better. And if the thing is, oh it's a knock and we don't hold them to that standard, that gotta go because because and by the way, I think Luca wants to be held to that standard. I think, great, we know Yannis wants to be We know Yannis wants to be held it. So I think these guys want to be

held to that standard. And I also think, again talking about it from a journalism standpoint, honesty, we need that back in this business. Not a narrative. Not a narrative. If we don't know, we're not going to put no, no, no. We need honestly, we need to trove back in this business because that is what ultimately helps grow this game. And that helps you, It helps myself, it helps everybody involved and who is touched by the game of basketball.

So I that's something that I hope to see. I appreciate your perspective on that because it definitely gave me a different, a totally different perspective that I haven't thought about. But like as a as a as a player, like like you're you're more like you're more controlled in your im media space as a player. People don't realize that with someone who has their own I would have been oh, I would have been five, would have been fined my asshole.

I would have I would have win live. I would have win live playing just like you know, like NBA, Michael, I'm liking myself up, iking myself up, and I'm doing it, you know, myself, Like I would have tried that, you know what I mean. I would have tried it. I would have tried some boofy shit like that, you know what I mean, because at the end of the day, I don't need to play the footage now, yeah I should it. I can hold it, I get hold it.

Sure it is my footage. I could I could be in the game doing my thing and hold that footage right. So I would have tried that. So you know, watching you like, you know you're responsible. I appreciate that you're responsible. And you know what I mean. With hey, Underdog Fantasy, we we we talked about it, man, like you know what I mean, Like he's he's an active player. That

that that he has real time information. He has real access right now, so he has a better You gotta remember, we're dealing with secondary information about a one information right now. Real time can tell you the game, to tell you how he's feeling. That's more important. So yeah, I've already tried to send him your way. I'm like it's it's it. When he's done, they're gonna they're gonna buy the podcast, they're gonna do whatever someone's coming because he's just too

good at what he does. I appreciate that, you know what I mean. I appreciate you, man. I've been obviously I've been a big fan since, you know, watching you play the game at Arizona, then to the Golden State Warriors with Jay Rich. You know Jay Rich from Saginaw, So I was always watching the Warriors and just followed your career and then also you in the media space. I think, uh, very admirable. How you speak your mind

and from a very intelligent place. Like you know, people can say what they want to feel what they want about what you have to say, but they can't call you dumb. And that's the first thing people try to do when you speak your mind, you know, it's trying to discredit your knowledge, discredit how smart you are. And so I have a huge appreciation for who you are, for what you've done, Like I said, how you went right into that space and show the other guys how

to navigate that. I appreciate it. I thank you for coming on the show. Much love, Bro, and if nobody else ain't giving you your flowers. Like I said at the very beginning, I watch you play. But also just hearing from several people that I respect their basketball mind like one of the best players they've ever seen. Brok. When you're freeing a summer and you ain't got you to do, don I come chop it off for show for show. You see the the steak colors. Absolutely, I'm

coming to chopping up for sure. Thank you, man. I appreciate it absolutely. Thank you, Bro