Steph's (Almost) Record, Kenneth Walker's Snub, and a Metta World Peace Interview

people are following my college football bets. I'm sort of red hot. I've won eleven of twelve. Hey, if you're new, just download the FanDuel Sports Book app. I did it in fifteen seconds. Get started now. Sign up. Please use the promo code Colin so they know we sent you. Please use the promo code Colins CEO l I in FanDuel Sports Book App sign up. Welcome back to The Draymond fourth episode. Exciting weekend sports. A lot of things

going on. We're talking awards, we're talking possible records being broken, and this week's guests will have Metal World Peace, which I am extremely excited about. Incredible player, hell of a defender, but more importantly a trailblazer in our sport. And we'll speak more on that with Metal, But first, as we talk records being broken, I am extremely excited about this week in sports because of a record that's about to

be broken in which I have watched. Of the two thousand and six hundred and some odd threes that has been made, I've probably seen about two thousand of them actually be made, and it's incredible us. You know, we're talking Steph Curry about to break Ray Alan's record. I think currently today he is fifteen threes away. And it's a beautiful theme. Man. I remember coming into the NBA and number one Steph Curry was not Steph Curry as we know today. You gotta remember this is ten years ago.

We're talking Steph Curry coming off injuries. We're talking Steph Curry that I'm in here doing a workout just in the off season, and Steph Curry shows back up in Oakland and the owner of the team is watching, our general managers, watching coach, watching five other people in the front office are watching him do an individual workout. Individual workout.

Season has not started yet. We're just ramping up, starting to get into the floor of things and starting to prepare for training camp, and they're watching his workout like a hawk. And then we go into training camp and you know, his workout was great. I watched him shoot that day. It was incredible. But then we rolled into training camp and there's kind of questions about whether Steph Curry will get paid or not. It's he worth the extension with his ankles hold up the whole nine yards.

He went on that same preseason to sign a four four year, forty four million dollar deal, which ended up being one of the biggest discounts in NBA history because after he signed that four year, forty four million dollar deal, that very year, he got set up to All Star and if I'm not mistaken, the following year, I think he made it. But that's when Steph Curry started to take off and became the Steph Curry as we know. Obviously,

those are the first two years of my career. My third year, we won the NBA Finals, which is he signed an extension. It is the second year of a forty four million dollar extension. He's making eleven million dollars a year. He's not even the highest payer person on our team. I don't even think he was the second. I don't even think he was the fourth highest played

player on our team. He goes on to win m VP that year, we win the championship, and he's making eleven million dollars a year, and the rest of that is history. But what I do want to talk about

is Steph Curry breaking that record. And obviously the record says, the record says that he's the best shooter we've ever seen body amount of threes, and he'll be number one, But what the eye test tells us, it's totally different than what the record tells us, because the reality is records can be broken, and you know, it's just how

the cookie crumbles. For instance, Steph Curry's three point record will be broken, and from the time he's done playing, it will probably only take someone five or six more years to break that record, if that reason being. Trey Young comes into the NBA attempting probably six or seven three pointers a game. Uh, Donovan Mitchell comes into the NBA attempting probably six or seven three pointers a game. Steph Curry came into the NBA attempting to three pointers

a game. Because it's just a totally different ball game. Two or three three pointers. Again, it's a totally different ball game and part in large part due to Steph Curry and Clay Thompson and the way those guys shot the basketball. I can even think back to the beginning of the championship run where everybody from Charles Barkley too, you know, all the people in the media, Santa jump shooting team can't win a championship. They'll never win their

jump shooting team. They won't win a championship. Those guys shoot too many threes. Mark Jackson made a comment of Steph Curry ruined the game of basketball with the way he plays, and at the time it was totally blown out of proportion. It was, and it was blown out of proportion obviously because Mark Jackson had just been here as our coach, and everybody's taking it as a slight.

The reality is Mark Jackson, who is one of the best basketball minds I've ever been around, was spot on with his comment, and what he meant by that comment was, nowadays, you have guys shooting threes that shouldn't attempt the three, to say their life, and the types of threes that shooting. You got guys coming off the dribble shooting threes. That's

not good shooters at all. And you have kids trying to shoot the NBA three, throwing it from their shoulder and throwing it from their hip to shoot an NBA three, And it's all because of Steph Curry. So when Mark Jackson made that comment, Steph Curry ruined the game of basketball.

That's what he was getting at, and he couldn't be more He couldn't be more accurate with his statement before anybody else realized it's because it totally changed changed the way the game is played, just by the way Steph Curry and Clay Thompson has been playing the game all this time. And I think when I look back on it's actually the ten years now that I've been here, most people, especially in the analytical department, didn't think Steph Curry shot enough three. To this day, they still don't

think Steph Curry shoots enough threes. And so that just goes to show you where the game is going and why his record will be broken probably within five to six years of him finishing playing the game. However, forget the record being broken, the fact that he is breaking this record and he's doing it in almost half the amount of games that Ray Allen Uh did it. It really just speaks to who Steph Curry is, the type of talent that he is, the shooter that he is.

It's one of the most incredible things. And I've had the pleasure of being able to watch most of these threes, and I think the most incredible thing about it is some of them are off pin downs, a bunch of them come off pen downs, a bunch of of them calm off spot ups, but the majority of them probably comes off the dribble. And I think that's what's so special about it is you're talking a guy not not you're You're not talking a guy who's spotting up and

shooting and just catching and shooting. By the way, no disrespect to the guys that do catch, spot up and catching shoot, because for those grades that does do that, come on. I'll take the lessons. But the way Steph Curry shoots the basketball, and the variety of shots that he's taken, in the type of shots that he's taking, the variety of defenses that he's facing. Steph Curry doesn't go into a game and not face a double team,

no matter who we're playing against. At some point throughout the game, he's going to face a double team, and the fact that he's still able to make the amount of threes that he's made is impressive. But what's even more impressive is that he's able to get up as many good attempts as he's able to get up. And I think that is a testament to his ball handling, but I think it's even more so a testament to his understanding the knowledge of the game, and how he

continues to move and find open spots. You know, he see a situation, he see the setup of a play, and he sprints from one corner all the way through all the way to the top of the floor, but taking the longest route possible. Number One, the discipline that it takes to guard that not many people that have that type of discipline. Number Two, the effort and conditioning level and stamina that that takes. It's absolutely insane. And number three, the mindset that you have to have in

order to be okay shooting the bar. That many times when you shoot the bar, that many times, you're gonna have some bad missus. You're gonna have some bad games. And one thing I've never seen with Steph Curry is his confidence confidence waiver. I've seen Steph Curry missed his first six three pointers and heat checked the seventh one from thirty three feet out, like as if he just knocked down four or five in a row and he's

heat checking. It's the most incredible thing. And I think that is the biggest testament to the shooter, to the record that he's breaking, is the confidence that he has and never waivers. And I am honored to be his teammate. I am honored to be alone in this journey with him. I am thankful and appreciative that I've been able to witness such greatness. Not not every day do you have

the opportunity two be around greatness or witness greatness. Some people don't win, don't actually witness greatness in their life. And when I say witness greatness, I mean especially to be around someone who's the best ever at something. You know, you're talking the likes of Jeff Bezos Uh, Elon musk Uh. You know, all of these guys who are the best ever at what they do. That's Steph curt He's the

best to ever shoot a basketball. And I think the most interesting thing about it is we can all debate whether Elon Musk is a better CEO than Jeff Bezo or the Elon must create a better company than Jeff Bezos or the Mark Zuckerberg create a better company than Jack Dorsey. Like, you can debate that and you're gonna get several different answers from different people. When you debate who's the greatest shooter ever, you get one consistent answer,

and that's Steph Curry. And I think that is the most incredible thing because when you're talking the greatest ever at something, it's it's not really fact based. Like we can say, you know, Ray Allen has the most threes, but some people would argue that Reggie Miller was a better shooter than Ray Allen, you know, and yeah, and so that would be a situation on where you say, well, it's not fact based just by Ray having more threes

than Reggie. Now, granted, Ray Allen, it's great, and I don't think anyone's really arguing that, but just as an example, but with Steph Curry, Ray Allen won't even argue that Reggie Miller won't even argue that. All of those guys say Steph Curry is the best, And I think it is absolutely incredible. I mean, you're talking to a guy who when he shoots the ball from half court you think it's going in. It actually goes in quite quite

quite often, but it's unheard of. And like I said, I am blessed and honored to have the opportunity to go to work every day with someone like that who's that great at something. And man, I am looking forward to possibly tomorrow Steph Curry breaking this record. I was talking. I was having a conversation with our general manager, Bob Myers earlier today, and he said, so, what are you expecting tomorrow? Like, are you expecting number thirty to shoot?

I said, well, I'm honestly, I'm honestly I'm expecting him to shoot thirty three tomorrow. He's like, really you think? So did he say that? I said, he didn't say a word. And he's like, oh, so, so he's not thinking about it. I said, is he not thinking about it? I don't. I can't say he's not thinking about it. I think that's tough not to think about. But what I can tell you is he he would never come out and say, oh, I'm shooting thirty threes tomorrow. But

I told Bob. I said, Bob, I'll know right away from the very first possession what type of time here if he trying, if he's legitimately trying to break that record tomorrow, or is he just gonna gradually keep getting there And just played again Aim and do and he was like, but we can't lose the game. I said, we won't lose the game, Bob, We'll be just fine. He won't do that, but I am expecting him to

shoot thirty threes tomorrow. So if Steph Curry come out to shoot thirty threes tomorrow or even you've heard it here first on the Draymond Green Show, because that is my take, that's what I'm guessing. And I think Steph Curry will be bombing threes against Portland tomorrow and don't count them out because there's an outside chance that he could break that record tomorrow. So I'm looking forward to that.

I think it's absolutely incredible that he's going to be breaking this record, But I also don't think no better person to do it, because the way he's changed the game of basketball, and not just at this level, but at every level of basketball. I think it's a beautiful thing and him breaking this record. It's just like a stamp of like, you know, I did change the game with basketball, but just it just stamps at all we all already believe he's the greatest shooter ever. That's the stamp,

and I am thrilled and happy to see it. I'd also be remissed if I didn't talk about Kenneth Walker being Kenneth Walker to third, being snubbed as a Heisman candidate, not attending the Heisman ceremony, I think it's absolutely ridiculous. You're talking about a guy who's dominated from start to finish of the season, a team that's had a great years in the New York as in a New Year's six Bowl. And by the way, don't tell me, oh this, this guy had this or this team was winning. C

J Stroud, no complaints. C J Stroud deserves to be there. You also have Bryce Young, no complaints. Bryce Young deserves to be there. Aidan Hutchinson, I'm not a scum guy. So as a defender, I have the utmost respect acting love for them putting a defensive guy up there, because that never happens. And and as defenders, you you rarely get any recognition, and so I do have an appreciation for him being a defensive end and being in the Heisman and and the and the race for the Heisman.

But then we also have and I'm drawing a blank on his name right now, we also have the quarterback from Pittsburgh, Kenny Pickett. We have Kenny Pickett, who's the quarterback of pitt Pittsburgh who's actually playing in the same bowl game as US. They're playing against US Michigan State.

And so if if your excuse Kenneth Walker not being in the Heisman race and not being one of the finalists for the Heisman, if your excuses, oh, we didn't make the playoff, shame on you because c J. Strouss in the same position and Kenny pickettson the same position. And it's actually ridiculous. You you you have two quarterbacks already. You you you add a third quarterback. But it also just it just goes to show the flaws in the system. But college college as a whole is flawed. The business

of college is flawed. And I know everybody's like, oh, they're allowed, they're allowing guys to be paid now, blah blah blah. That's garbage. All the money you You're now seeing all these coaches get paid, and yet the n c a A still aren't paying players. So college is flawed as a whole. The host, the n c A is flawed, the Heisman voting, and the Heisman candidates is obviously flawed. The player. The college football playoffs system is ridiculously flawed because it's not winning get in, you know

you have. The Georgia Alabama game ends up meaning asolutely nothing because Georgia loses, and since they were undefeated coming into the game, that doesn't drop them out of the playoff. The only way it matters is Alabama would have lost. Well, guess what we all knew. Alabama wasn't losing that game, and so it's not a win and get in. It's not you controlling your own destiny. If Georgia had a fallen out, I think Notre Dame's five or yeah, Notre

Dame's five in Ohio State six. Notre Dame lost their game early in the season. I think they lost their game a week one or two and they're still sitting there at five. And so the whole system is flawed. College as a whole is flawed. It's ridiculous. It's outdated. There are several things that need to change, and Kenneth Walker not making the Heisman, It's just goes to show like, who's who's deciding this stuff? Because Kenneth Walker, we beat

Ohio State and Kenneth Walker's the Heisman winner. We lose so high stating Kenneth Walker is not even a Heisman finalist, and so I just think it's ridiculous. I think it's absolutely flawed, it's pathetic, and a lot of changes need to be made to college as a whole, especially with the changes that that are being made in these professionals leagues, with the G League and the new rules. If college wants to survive, there's a lot of things that needs

to be changed. And the latest is their Heisman voting. Because there's no way that Kenneth Walker, the third should not be a Heisman finalist. It's absolutely ridiculous, it's pathetic. But I'm over it, and I think it's time to move to what I think it's going to be the absolute best part of this segment because I am thrilled about it. I couldn't be more honored to have a guest who I have the utmost respect for. And although his appreciation in basketball as a whole isn't where I

know it should be. And that's coming from me as a peer who played against this guy. Know what he did to the game, know what and know how hard he made it for other teams on the offensive end and the and more and even more so on the defensive end. I couldn't be more thrilled and honored to be welcoming Metal World Peace to the show. I am honored today UH to have a guest who I have the utmost respect for, UM, A guy who I had the opportunity to play against UH, thank god for only

two years. UM being one of the strongest guys, if not the strongest guy that I ever played against, one of the better, the best defender that I've ever played against, one of the toughest guys to come through the league, guy who I had the honor of growing up watching play UH and had tremendous respect for Helen from Queen's Bridge by way of St. John's onto the league cause Havoc. One of the toughest guys. As I said, a Metal World Peace man, thank you madam for coming on to

the show. It's an honor to have your own brother here. Man, it's an honor to be here. I've remember seeing you when the finals and UM in Cleveland and had a chance to sit down and just like watch you speaking after the championship. I remember that I wanted to kind of soak that in just as a fan. And I'm just so impressive what you bring to the table. Man, it's incredible. Thank you, thank you know. Uh so I mean in kicking this off man, obviously, uh you know,

I've I've said publicly I'm the greatest defender ever. And you know when I said that, it caused it caused a lot of commotion and more so amongst other defenders. Um, you know, I enjoyed the commotion that caused because obviously in order to be a great defender, you have to have that intensity, you have to have that mindset. And so once that once it came out like that, I'm like, hell, yeah, I wanted it to come off like that. But as a guy, um, who I respect as a defender and

everyone you played with respect as a defender. What what was the key for you and defending the garden the way that you did. I mean, the thing was like when I grew when I was growing up. I want't to score, you know, so the only way I could win was on defense. And I used to hate losing. So I learned how to make the game ugly since I was a kid. Like even when we when we lost to the Pistons in the in the game six,

get the score was deefinitely one of sixty seven. You know, every film that I've ever lost, like, the score is always low. Even when you lost in the Lakers in game seven, Um, the score was eighty nine to seventy, like, you know, like I always like to make it ugly. Deflections, you know, I always knew like deflections, uh elite. I always like, I always like to leave my team and deflections and different things. But um, the the other thing

was just being competitive. And since a kid, I've been you know, I want everywhere, you know, in New York City, everywhere played. But one of the things I did was a lot of people up, and I always thought like that was the best. I always thought I was the best player on the floor, even without scoring, you know. And with that being said, you know, I just wanted to try to shut my opponent down, just to be the best player on the floor, even though you might

have you know, a really good offensive game. But I just wanted to shown for sure, and I think I think for us, Um, the most respect you can get, uh as a player is from your peers. You know, when your peers respect you, that goes way beyond what this newscaster may say, what this analysts may say. When your peers respect you. And one and one of the guys that we know that we all respect obviously is Kobe.

And he always said that you were as tough as challenge and part of the reason why was because you're always switching your stands up. Can you walk me through that? Yeah, yeah, I mean it's a lot of people that I learned a lot from. Um. But you know, with that being said, defense is always a constant adjustment. And with that being said, UM, you never wanna you know, you know, your job has never done on defense. So what I always like to

do is the angles. Would always like to keep it's my center of gravity, like um, kind of in front you know of europe mid section and then also you know in between, you know, your legs. And I was always just moving with the angles, you know, UM, And I just I was I was on two sixty sixty five when I played, so I couldn't really stay in front of these sewall guys, you know what I'm saying. So I always had to use the angles, you know,

to my advantage. That's crazy that the fact that you were to sixty two sixty five moving the way that you did. I think the one thing that when I first came into the league, I was at three. For those that don't know, I wasn't playing the four really and I never played the five. When I first came into the league's at that time, it was like Zebo and Mark gasol Um, Tim Duncan and Thiago Splitter, Paul

Kassol Andrew bund him like you had Dwight Howard. You had real big playing the four with seven foot guys playing the playing the fourth spot. And one thing that I noticed when I when you when you guarded me a couple of times at the three, you were just rooting into the ground like couldn't be moved one. Like I said, one of the strongest guys when I when I came out, it was only you and stack Jack that was like that, Like nobody else was moving like that.

And to think that at one point you two guys were on the same team and you guys had a could have possibly won a championship, and then things happened. Um, do you have any regrets in leaving Indiana when you left, because I personally think that team could have won a championship. Yeah, big, big regrets. You know, I was young and dumb. I always tell people, don't request trades. I always tell people it's not it's not always greener on the other side.

You know, as a basketball players, you know, we it goes in phases, and we all are entitled players at times. And I was a very like entitled player. So when I don't get my way, I request trade. I wish I would have soared through, you know. I wish I would have had, you know, the ability and the and and the strength to understand that you know, things get better, you know if you just you know, have a little patience. But at the three year old, I wasn't looking at

it like that, and we I definitely regretted. I tried to get back to Indiana. Actually, um, right before I got to the Lakers, I was trying to get back to Indiana. Um, but you know, so much happened. They did any want to back. That's that's interesting and obviously, uh that that leads what what sparked that was the Malice at the Palace. I actually had the opportunity of playing with Jermaine O'Neil my second year in the league, one of my old g s, and he told us

a story. We're obviously we're all asking about the Malice at the Palace. As a kid growing up in Sagging All, Michigan, I remember that like it was yesterday. I'm watching the guy I knew guys on the Florida type of stuff, so I'm like, you know what's going on. But I was talking to Jermaine and he said, Man, one thing I loved about our team was we was really a bunch of crazy motherfucker's. Like that's how Jermaine. Jermaine explained it to me, Like we were a bunch of crazy

mother fucker's. He said. We had stack Jack and we had run. He said, after after the brawl, we walked into the locker room and Ron come in and say, yo, y'all think we're gonna get suspended? He said, y'all, y'all think we're gonna do you remember that? True? I remember that, you know, I'm just saying like if somebody you know, you're getting the fight, it's like over because you know, especially if you didn't start the fight. You know, I

did everything in my power. I remember that day, um trying to do everything in my power to not get in any trouble because even three years into the league, I was getting ejection and suspensions, and I'm like, I just want to have a good season. I just want to like, you know, continue this legacy. And so I didn't expect to get in that brawl that day. I expected to come out of the clean, you know, And when I get to the locker room, I'm just like,

is this really happening? Like I just couldnt believe it. You know, I go to the scorer's table, I lay down, you know, I've been just throwing his headbands. I'm like just sitting there and I'm just what's gonna And then boom, this guy throws a cup of bear and I just snapped right and just like what just happened with him? Like what five ten minutes? Like maybe eight minutes. That's interesting. It's funny because I had I had a situation, um Man, about five five six years ago now back in East

Alansta and I was telling some friends of mine. I said, Yo, I've been in a lot of situations, and whatever happened in the situation, I probably caused it a little bit with my attitude. I said, but this was the one time I actually held it together. This time like I held it together. I didn't do anything. I retreated, went back the next day saying, guy, come at me again, like I did everything in my power, and that's the one day that it actually goes wrong is the day

that I try to hold it together. It's funny to hear that, but so that that transpires, you you get suspended for the rest of the season, and then everything happens with Jamaine gets his suspension, stat gets his suspension. We never get to see the true potential of that team realized. You you move on a couple of stops and then and then you end up with the Lakers, and I think that's where, if you tell me, but I feel like that's where your career really took a turn,

where you were respected also all of those things. But then you get to the Lakers playing with Kobe explained that journey to me and how everything changed for you, especially perception wise of Ryan Art test Metal World Peace. Once you went to the Lakers. Well, you know, it actually started out with Sacramento. So when I got the sack after Indiana and I was gonna retire actually like that, Yeah, I put in my papers. So then I get the Sacramento I go to Coach Otleman, I'm like, yo, Coach

Pounds right now, I'm really not intu and playing. I was like, I don't want to make a big deal out of this, but if you can somehow, you know, keep me on the bench and you know I'll be there, but I'm trying to ease my way out of this thing, right. So he was like, he said, Ron, and I'll try to go way out right. So he was like, he said, run, We're gonna go as far as you take us. And you plan to go into it, we gonna go as far as you take. That's what Coach Adaman tells me.

So were in the last place in the West. So so I go home that night and I started think about it, put in perspective. I come back next day and I said, you know what, We're going to the playoffs, and like media laughed or whatever. We go to the playoffs almost be the Spurs and the playoffs and then um, but that right there, really you know, got got the

love back. And then just being around coach Adam and he's like a father thing, So being around coach Adam and you know, I was able to just like kind of get the love and kind of respect the game more. And then I wanted to play for him again. In Houston. Um, you know, I kind of played pretty well there and my game was coming back because I had a couple of years where I wasn't even I got suspended. In the next year, I got suspended again by the team. Nobody want to realize that I spend it again for

three months. Really yeah, but I was suspended for the first few months of the season and the next year so wow. Then I didn't play no more for the Pacers. Then I went to a Sacramento So that's like two years of like, you know, I was in shape right before the bro you know, I was like so you know, it was when I got to Houston. Then I was like prime and I was average five and the playoffs against the Lake and I was I was back to myself. Then I go to the Lakes the next year in

my prime, I was twenty nine. But I'm playing with the greatest and I'm playing with pal right. So with that being said, my average going from drop to like six and that was like that was all she wrote, you know. But the thing but I really love about that moment was I was able to take away the entitled runout tests and sacrifice for the team and I

just did everything I had to do. I was spotted up, you know, plenty of time just not touching the ball, but I tried to do everything the right way and I was that was the most proud of I was in my career because you I accepted, you know, something I'm not used to when I started everywhere I went, you know, I was like, don't you guy all this stuff? And then I had to accept the role and I was like, okay, now I'm in trying. I realized right

then and there, that's that's beautiful. It's it's important too. I think people don't realize in order to have a championship team, like guys are going to have to sacrifice because the reality is if you don't have guys that has to sacrifice something on the championship team, you don't have good enough players and you won't win anyway, I think we we you know, we had a similar thing

with with Andrea Gudala, who's obviously back, thank god. Um, but where he's in the problem of his career and it's Steve Kerr asked him to come off the bench. A lot like yourself. Um, he goes on. He you know, he goes on to win the finals, m VP and that finals, but a lot like yourself. You you you take a back seat and then the person who has to hit the big shot in game seven is you. And if you don't take on that role, those moments

never happened. Lakers never win a championship. So it's it's interesting to see the maturity absolutely, man, that was one of my proudest moments, Like the maturity side. I got a chance to actually see, you know, what it is to be a role play. I've never been a role play in my life, but I got a chance to experience it. And now when I coached to this day, I kind of understand, like, you know, a go to guy,

a role play. I coached girls also, and just having that perspective on it, you know, on the game, I understand like if you're really good, but hey, we need you to sacrifice and you know what you're gonna it's gonna be better for you in the long run. Um, And I had a chance to win a title, you know, which is like really really big if you can do it. So I'm just I'm just so grateful for the Lakers.

It's as as definitely life changing. And it also, like like I spoke on the peers before, it also changes the way your peers look at you when when you when you win that those NBA Finals, Yeah, different for sure. But speaking of speaking of Game seven, you've been had that moment, you had a huge moment. I'm a fan growing up, so as growing up I always would cheer for the Lakers because I loved Kobe and Shot. Then obviously they split up and I'm like, man, I still

love Cobe. I love that dog. And then you go hid at that moment in Game seven, and one of the one of the one of the biggest moments I personally think, uh from that moment was afterwards you you you said you wanted to shout all your therapists and that was a big moment because number one, we had never heard um a guy come out and speak on his therapists. Let alone, one of the toughest, uh no disrespect, one of the most insane guys we've seen in our league.

And you come out and speak, speak on your therapist. What gave you the confidence or made you want to speak on that? That's actually you made a confidence because at that time your most vulnerable states. One would take that for weakness and things like that. And I just felt like the strength was in, you know, improving yourself.

The strength was in being vulnerable, and and that's what's gonna help other people, you know that's going through things and don't really know quite how to get through it. You know, when you're trying to improve yourself, that's big. And I just wanted to give credit where credit was due. That day in game seven, you know, we're playing against the Celtics. Me and Paul got a long history, and my whole thing was staying in the game, don't get a tech, do not getting give again. Right. So the

night before that, I called my therapist. He lives in Houston and um and and meanwhile I've been in I've been ejected from my full playoff series against the Spurs against the Laking with the Rockets against the Celtics, Indiana against the the Pistons a game to go to the finals. I get a flagrant, they hit, they they game is tied. They go up for free throws, score and win by four. Go to the finals and win. Right, So this is like I'm like, how can I gain control over this?

So I call her up and I say, hey, I need you to come in the morning. I just don't feel right. And she comes that morning. I go to shoot around, I come back home. We have a quick session and we just talked about it, like be ready for anything and enjoy the game and stay in a moment. And then we went to the championship, you know, which is like crazy to me. I never thought I'd be in a situation on the title after like my career,

and now I got this championship. I was just like, you know what, let me just thinking my side my psychologist, I said, psychiatrist. I didn't even know the difference. I said, let me think myatrest. And she called me up and she was like, hey, hey, Ron, I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm a psychologist. I said, okay, cool, Sorry, what what for for for those of us that that don't know the difference, can you explain that. Yeah, the difference between

psychology and psychiatry. Psychiatrist or psychiatry, they normally provide, you know, medication right on. My psychologist is more therapy talking over and talking through something I was doing at that point

in time. I was doing psychology, which therapy UM, which you later went to like sports therapy because for me, the game was everything to me, um And how can you you know, be effective on the court, I mean, I focus, So that's like sports therapy, you know, And I think sports therapy for a professional athletes like huge. And like I said, it wasn't no no one spoke about it before you did that. And I think you kind of you you you pull the lid off some

things when you did that. Do you did you see a change in the in the way the league started attacking mental health after you did that, or do you think it still took a while for the league to kind of catch up? You know, I think it took a while for them to catch up, you know, in terms of making it public that we don't help our players, and in terms of the players like I'm actually gonna help myself and and I'm gonna help others, you know,

by just saying I'm doing therapy. Just by saying you're doing therapy or whatever, I'm not saying forcing on yourself. I'm saying if you're doing it, and you know, it's really expensive right to get therapy. Um. And also it's a stigma chat. So it's just so many different things, and there's so many cool things about people coming down and saying, you know, yeah, I see a therapist. This

is okay. You know you're actually helping someone indirectly, and maybe they never have to see a therapist because, like I said, that's a hundred feet dollars, hundred dollars everybody, I got a hundred dollars hour, you know to see a therapist. No, No, that's that's interesting. It's also very interesting that um, it's it's so expensive. And yet I think for most people, like we all go through trauma right in life, Like no matter who you are, you

go through some shorter trauma. Most of the times are being unrealized or or undealt with trauma and you kind of just learn how to compartmentalize it and continue to carry on. A friend of mine has this his this art piece, and I'm gonna butcher the saying a little bit, but it's right along the same lines, and it says something about, uh, why is a funeral so expensive? A broke man ain't got no business line, And it's along

the same lines of therapy. It's like it's so expensive. Um. Yeah, we go through all of this, all the all the things that we go through in life. And the reality is you go through those things, and you go through those traumas. A lot of people, especially in the urban community, we deal with these traumas and you don't have the financial resources to get that therapy. On top of the stigma that comes along with the therapy, you don't have to financial resources. And now it's really a thing that

you never see. You never had an opportunity to to speak with the therapist to correct those falster to learn from those things, to learn how to deal with those things. And then you're just stuck living that life right right, right, you st living that life and you've probably seeing it. We've seen it, you know, with the people we have living in our neighborhoods. Right just can't get out of that rut, you know, and you you know you're walking out your house, mean, you know, you know, once you

wake up in the morning. Something's bothered you, right, Like, how can we you know, change that and give you a different perspective on life where you can go on

with your life, you know. Uh, you know, when you get educated, whether you're taking a trade, whether you want to build a family, you know, different things like that versus having you know, this blockage you know, which is kind of mental health issues and mental health and you know, uh, illnesses, whatever the case may be that's blocking you from you know, moving on with your life and your career, you know,

and different things like that in your family. So I think, you know, I just think it's very important that I came out, um, you know, and and and definitely and put some and gave some exposure and release the stigma. And speaking of the financial side of it. Uh in the two thousand and eleven two thousand and twelve season, Uh, you did something special. Uh, being in the position that you were in financially, you did something special. Could you let everybody know what it is that you did and

why did you feel the need to do that? Yeah, it's I won the championship bringing I wrappled it off, you know, and I wanted to. I could have probably raised more money, but we raised a total of six hundred and seventy one thousand with the ring that I gave all the money away to mental health institutions uh, one in Arkansas, one in Cleveland too, in New York, l A, Indiana, Nashville, and I just wanted to bring awayness to it and let people know, like, you know,

release the stigma. Uh, you know, improve yourself and you know you have just you have support, like we understand what you go through. You're not out there alone. Now that's it's a beautiful thing. And I want to say thank you for having the bravery that you had to come out and speak on that. Now. I think we have three mental health professionals now on staff. They're in at least one of them and at least once or

twice a week. Uh. And I think it's a beautiful thing because you you hear so many people uh in our league go through it and so many people suppress it. But I don't think people really realize, um, the mental strain that it takes to go through an NBA season. Like I always tell people, you a guy is saying, oh, yeah, I'll do this to you in the leagual I'll do that.

I'm better than you. And I tell people you can't even deal with the stress of just a game day, like just knowing waking up at nine am, knowing I have to get to shoot around. Then after shoot around, I have film. Then after film, I'm doing some treatment.

I'm doing this all the things that lead up to going into a game, the stress alone of just a game that you couldn't deal with, so happen, the coach of but not happening to coach up, gotta play engine and not playing engine, and you gotta put in that work. And you know when you tie, you you're gonna keep pushing it. You're working out it sometime, you know. Yeah, it is a lot that goes into it that makes

a complete player. It's true. People don't really understand. No, definitely, So like I said, I just want to thank you for that. Um but and and switching gears a little bit. Going back to your playing career, which, like I said, I have the utmost respect for, especially as a defender. Where do you rank yourself, um as far as wing defenders go, Like, I know some great ones obviously I mentioned stack Jack who YouTube strong as hell, Tony Island,

where where do you rank yourself among those wing defenders. Well, um, it's like, so when I was doing my prime, I definitely thought I was the best. Um you know, Um, I mean I wanted defensive Player of the Year and I probably would have won more, I guess. You know. Um, you know, I can't argue about the woman I got suspended. I don't know what would have happened that year. The next year I got left in the end. I don't

know what had happened that year. But you know, with that being said, Uh, it's something I'm really happy about. I really love talking about it. You know what I'm saying something only a few people could talk about. But as I look back at it and I was doing my research, especially when you came out to your comments, I actually looked at um a lot of different wing defenders, and I think Dennis Robin is probably the best wing

defenders that we've seen. You gotta go watch his take, and I was like, I was looking at it and I'm only familiar with him from the power forward position, but the way he started Jordan and pipping, I was just like, oh wow, this guy's might be a better way defended than me. I've never thought he was a better one differend than than me. You know. Um, but I gotta I mean, Reggie Miller thought I was probably the best. Um besides myself saying that I was the best.

You know, a lot of media probably never gave me the credit because you know, I just want to keep my name out of them out then I want to give credit with credits, dude. Like for example, it's crazy like once once. I mean, it's just so many times people left me off. I'm like, come on, I'm not even gonna argue with that. But with that being said, you know, I didn't hold people to zero a couple of times in their crime, you know, which is really

difficult to do. You know. Um, I got a lot of d MPs, people not showing up, not showing up to play. So I mean, I gotta put that all in. Uh, you know, I gotta put that in, my baby. But what that means that I would say, top seven maybe something like that, top in the top seven. There's a lot of people out there that's really good. Um. And with you, when you came out with your comments and it was interesting, it happened quick, right, so it was a shot up when you came out of I mean,

you are so versatile. You should put yourself up there because if I did what you did, I for sure with us having number one, I mean you can played the five, you played the three. You got championships to back it up. You know what I'm saying. Many people could say they're good, but you got championships and you It's not like he was averaging thirty, right, and you did have thirty five in game seven and agains the calf, so you know you can, right, I don't I remember

that game like this was this doctor score two? Um? You know, I mean you should definitely put yourself up there. Obviously you got robbed me and you got um, you got Bill Russell. It's it's difficult to say you number one, but you got championships. So you know, I think what it's all said and done it we should do something on ourselves because so much, so many times the offensive player is getting get the pub and as a defensive player,

I want to I want some pub. I just feel about that, you know what I mean, Like I want some puls Like so if I feel we should do something on that, we should be talking about that, like who are the best win differenders who are the best defenders and really do something on it to bring light. Like I spent all months in my career before I was before. When I would practice the floor, I would pick up a ball. The first forty five minutes was running by myself, nobody in the gym. That's what I was.

I was a gym sliding doing my defensive slides, like putting in that work. I wasn't just a good defender. I actually had the train for it. And with that being said, I take pride in that you know what I'm saying, and I was happy when you came out that. I was like, yes, like somebody's talking about defense. Findal least. I was like, I think I tweeted that I only be so, but I was like, really appreciative, are you

coming so? Yeah? Absolutely no, I UM. A part of the reason I did say that was I think people think I talked a lot, which I had my times where I talked. But I'm very calculated and so when I when I say something, I've already played out how the response is going to be. Who's gonna say what? Obviously you don't know exactly what someone's gonna say, but like it's gonna cause us uproar, Like I'm already aware

of that. And when I said it, do I really think I'm the best defender to ever play the game basketball? Of course, not like we all get in situations that may not be good for us as far as your weakness. Like I definitely feel like I think, I definitely feel

like I'm the best defender in my era. But I mean, like a guy who I have a ton of respect for is Kauai Leonard, right, Like I think Kauai is an incredible defender, but Kauai also doesn't guard the post, you know, like Kauai is on the he's on the premieres chasing guys around. You move the ball in front

of him, He's going the other way. Utmost respect for Kauai Leonard, Rudy Gobert is a good defender, but like for me, Rudy Gobert, he protects the rim, you know, Like he's not guard in the wing on you know, he's not switching on to a point guard. He's not switching onto a wing Uh if a point guard is, it's getting off. His coach doesn't come to him and say, hey, you take Dame Lillard, you know, or hey, you take

Chris Paul. You're starting the game on Chris Paul. And so you know, those are are definitely some guys that I respect. But you know, I respect Avery Bradley, who's a ball you know, like never got the credit he deserved a ball hawk and pssible to screen, Like for myself as a screener, he's impossible to screen, and like,

I respect that. And so I think it's something that you know, when I speak up on defense, and I continue to speak about it because I, like you said, we deserve credit too, Like, all right, so you may you may not be scoring the ball as much as Steph Curry, right, but we all have an impact on

the game. And I always speak on people don't talk about defense because you actually have to understand the game of basketball to speak on defense, you know what I'm saying, Like I can look at a guy and say, oh, man, he was guarding such and such one, he was on him, he ripped him, or um, you know, he was pressuring

the ball. But I can also put that guy on the back action and watch him miss every tag that he's supposed to get on that big rolling down the lane, and then you can run and say, oh, he's a great defender because he's on the ball. No he's not, because I can put him in a position that he mess up y'all the entire defense. And so when I said that, um, I was more so standing from the standpoint a to spark a conversation. Let's get talking about these great defenders, because now when I say I'm the

best defender, now we're talking about matters. Now we're talking about around our test. Now we're talking about Scottie Pippen defense. Now we're talking about Dennis Rodman. And let's let's make sure these flowers are being given to who they should be given to and not just someone who scored a basketball. And so that's how I always take it on the defensive end, and I speak on it because I don't think enough is said about it. And you, as you and I both know, if you don't have a defense,

you can score as many points as you want. We watched it with the Warriors for years, where they'd be right up there at the top of the scoring in the league and and would be bottom five in the West because they didn't have a defense. And so I always try to speak on that number one to start the conversation. But it's also to pay respect and get and get these names. Pumping to these guys who I respect on the defensive end, that should be spoke about

yourself being one of them. I agree. And the team defense is also important, you know, those those concepts and you know, tagging and doing everything the right way, you know, not coming out the corner when the coach told you for the hundreds of time, you know, don't help out the corner, and and filling and sinking on time. And I mean it's beautiful, you know, I really, I truly enjoy it, you know, And uh, it's something that I try to, you know, teach to this day. I respect

for sure. No, I appreciate it, man, and I don't I don't want to take up too much your time. Appreciate you coming on. But before I let you go, I wanted to ask you about X versus X, which is a sport platform that you're involved in. Can you explain that that to us and what what it can bring to the game for players? Yeah, for sure. You know. So when I retired, I didn't really want to retire.

I don't wanted to play so I said, I'm gonna build an app for myself so I could travel with the world and play basketball because I always wanted to travel to the world, pay basketball something. What I was gonna do is rather than give people my number and say hey, let's meet at this gym or whatever, you know, just signed to this app. He played basketball. I never have to see you yet. And you know what I'm saying.

So as I was building this app, you know, trying to world play basketball is like, oh wow, it's a bigger opportunity here. There's also an opportunity for to help people get exposure that you know will not have the opportunity to get exposure because when you take a basketball ten to two, it's like our basketball. I was, we're gonna go to work, We're gonna you know, summtime, we're gonna play ball, We're gonna lift. But not everybody had

those with some people gotta work, not five. So how can you give someone working at Target to Starbucks an opportunity to still play, you know, and to still get exposure. So that's what experts X is. You know, it gainst basketball players an opportunity to connect other basketball players. You know, play basketball on any time and build you know, a local community and a local audience, you know, and and show that you can play the game, you know, on

many different levels. And we got a lot of great stories. Some people are gonna see a couple of our players in the g League, you know, and it's very empowering. So it keeps me around the game. You know, I'm coaching a lot, you know, I'm running some games. I'm coaching some games, practicing with some of the players you know, we probably have. We're in beta right now, so we got about ten thousand people in beta, and when we come out of the beta, will probably be one of

the biggest basketball organizations in the world. You know. With that being said, it's just like, keeps me around the game. I love the game of basketball, and I'm so grateful that I'm able to find something to do that keeps me around the game. So I'm not really excited about it. That's beautiful and um when as a basketball head uh and huge basketball fan, when when can we expect uh for this to be readily available to myself and everyone

else that's not a part of the beta? Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah, So right now we're in a we're in the live beta because you can't go into a basketball company and you have you know, your CTO test the game, like you gotta get that information from basketball players. So it's live right now. We're in a live beta, which is

risk because people will take your ideas. But this is the type of company that you have to be in a live beta and you you can download the app, upload basketball content, uh, you know, create your own games, and we're gonna try to you know. Uh. Really, what we're doing is empowering, so digitizing competition and turning athletes into digital assets, using all the new innovation that's out there for an athlete to not only get exposure, but to also monetize, you know, your own brand and your

own skills. So that's so what we're doing. Really excited about it. And a lot of nice little nice tech people involved, you know, from Elie Times invested in our company, you know to see you Busmobile also involved, and we're trying to actually create a platform that's very very empowering, you know, just in case you know, you're not a part of the politics. You can't get into a college you want to get into, you can't get into that

team in the NBA. You want to get into you know, so you come to actual sex and we kind of help you, you kind of work through that. But I'm just really grateful for it. That's beautiful man. Congratulations uh, and and good luck with the platform. I'm looking forward to testing it out. Now. One more question a lot. I know I said i'd let you go. I'd be remissed if I didn't ask this question. Um, as as a fan of yours and also as a as a fan of Ben Wallace, who's also like a big brother

to me. Uh. A little while back up, a photo came out of you guys, of you and Ben, and I thought it was a huge moment because I can relate, and the reason I can relate is not quite the

same situation. Obviously there was a broad area. UM, but I had something that happened public as well, publicly as well, uh with myself and Kadi, And you know, you go through these public moments and number one, UM, you may want to talk to someone, you may want to have a relationship someone, and the pressure that you're getting from the public about this moment doesn't really allow We're not to take place right and so um, whereas you and

been I don't know how long y'all had gone without speaking, But then this picture comes out and it sparks this whole conversation. I thought that was a huge moment because for us as, especially for us as as young African American men, and you know, it goes back to Queensbridge, like it goes back to Saginaw, Michigan. It goes back to red Dirt Row, Alabama, for and Wallace, where we grow up. We beef with the guy around the corner or the guy around the way, and we never settled

that beef. And the only way it ever really gets settled as by killing, by fighting, guys fighting over and over again, and all of a sudden some guys goes to prison or something, and that's how the beef settled.

But you never really see the beef settled. You never see a photo coming out where two guys are standing there and you're like, man, that's beautiful to see, or a conversation um with myself and Kevin where everybody can see, like man, those two guys are in the in the room talking it out, Like man, I think that's a great a great picture for our young especially for our young black men to see. Yeah, definitely. You know that that picture happened by action. I actually spoke to Ben

through direct messaging. Uh. I was trying to actually do a podcast with him right before he became a Hall of Famer. But uh, you know, but with that being said, I thought it was big. I never had a problem with Ben. You know, Ben I found in He he got sad, he pushed me. That's basketball, that happens, man. Um. The only issue me in Ben had he was like the best two defenders in the league for absolutely years.

That was like, and if you're Ben Wallace, you want that award if you meet you know, I want that a war too, And he got falls and I got one. So I have a huge issue with that. But right that's like the only issue other than that. I mean, I love Ben like he's an amazing defender. Um, you know he's writing about Adet. It's like, you know what, I'm like, what's they'd not love about Ben? He's he's never been in like trouble, He's a he's a great teammate. Um.

You know, it's nothing that I loved Ben person. But he got four Defensive Play of the Year wards and I got one, which which I understand. As someone who also has one, I understand how hard it is to get that a war So I get the frustration. It's happened to me a couple of times, like I feel like Kawai Leonard got one of my awards sitting on his man to at home. I feel like Rudy Gobert got one of my war are sitting on his mental

at home. So I definitely understand. Hey, but no matter again, man, I just want to say thank you for coming onto this podcast, for sharing your life. Um. You know, I think you're a beautiful You're a beautiful person, You're an

incredible basketball player, and most importantly, you're a leader. And the way you've led, uh for for for guys like myself coming behind you raising awareness that that you raise, putting your money where your mouth is and not only starting out awareness because I think so many times, UM, people will start to raise awareness on something and then they don't know how to carry the message through. Like once you've raised awareness, now it's time to put the

action to the awareness and carry the message through. And you've done that. Um, Like I said, from my I say this for myself, uh and for other guys. That's in the lead today. Thank you for leading away the way you have. We are truly appreciative for of you and you you really set a path and this NBA for guys to attack the things that they need to attack,

and we appreciate you. Now. Thanks a lot, man, I really appreciate being on you was Honna and you know, just from and I just want to say, like, I'm really proud of what you guys been doing over there, just from a basketball perspective. You know, I don't know a lot of you guys off the court. I watched the games and very very impressive, very mature, and I mean y'all changed the way the game UH should be playing.

You're changing with people thinking about the game, you know, and so you know, kudos and you guys over there, I don't know how it happened, and you guys are just like incredible way. He's still back, so you know, much much much luck to you guys and success to you your families and anything. Thank you, Thank you, brother, and again good luck with X versus acts. I'm looking forward to you on the platform. Appreciate you. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, sir.

Once again, thanks to matter for coming onto the show. Uh and sharing all of the stories and the gems uh speaking on his bravery and speaking out about mental health long before it was even a thing. Obviously we're all aware of it now, but long before it was a thing. You're talking a guy in the biggest moment of his life, on the biggest stage, speaking on his therapists and the and the work that he was doing.

And so I was extremely grateful of his interview and and just his transparency and sharing those stories because I think it's it's needed. We all need to hear it and understand um the dynamic around athletes as a whole, and and how much of a strain it is on your life. And no, granted, and I don't take it for granted all it's a very special job to have you you're doing what you're what you love for a living.

But just like anything else, it does have his challenges and that that's gonna be a rap for this week's episode of The Draymond Green Show. At extremely excited about next week as well. A guy who met her and I actually spoke about and I mentioned being one of the two guys, the strongest guys that I have faced my first couple of years in the league. Extremely excited to be welcoming one half of All the Smoke to

the show, Stack Jack Stephen Jackson. We're going to have the honor of hearing some of his stories, uh here, talking about his path, hearing about All the Smoke, all of that next week. Tune into the Draymond Green Show This week. It's a rap. Thank y'all.