The volume.
We're this close to crowning and NBA champion. I like the Celtics, by the way. In six, Jalen Brown's going to be my MVP, and I love the Celtics in game one. But sign up ninety seconds put in the code Colins co l I N DraftKings sports book and official sports betting partner of the NBA. If you're a new customer, bet five bucks.
That's it.
Just bet five bucks and you'll get one hundred and fifty bucks instantly in bonus bets. The code Colins co l I N shows them that you're a new customer to get one hundred and fifty bucks in bonus bets only on DraftKings. The crown is yours. I'm leaning Celtics in six.
Baby gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler or in West Virginia, visit one eight hundred gambler dot net. In New York call eight seven seven eight open wired text ope and y four six seven three six nine. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of boothill Casinomen resorting Kansas twenty one and over age varies by jurisdiction,
Void and Ontario. Bonus bets expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after issuans. See DKG dot co slash bball for eligibility and depositive restrictions terms and responsible gaming resources.
What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. We are back with another episode of Champs Only, and today we have a five time champion, so I'll just shut up. Like as levels, you know, Shack always talk about the G fourteen classification and it being levels to different things, and.
Quite frankly, this isn't a level I can really speak on.
However, we got five time NBA champion, Los Angeles Laker legend, no other than the one and only Derek Fisher.
D Fish. What's going on? My brother, man?
Dre appreciate you you man, you are You are closer than most so and you're still ticking, so keep going and keep.
Striving for it. Man, I'm you spoke of Shack.
I wouldn't have three of mine without him, so it's definitely levels to it.
Absolutely no, I appreciate you man. Number one.
I appreciate you coming on the show. Uh, it's an honor for me. You know, I grew up I always tell people, I grew up as a Shakille O'Neill fan, Like I was my first my first jersey basketball jersey was an Orlando Magic Shaquille jersey. I had the Orlando Magic nightlight. I had to zip up Onesie Orlando Magic, like I was a Shaquille fan. Obviously, Shaq and left
and joined the Lakers. And so I feel like I've watched your entire career, like career because when Shaq went to the Lakers, like I'm cheering for the Lakers, I'm everything like like Shack so And I feel like I've watched your entire career.
And as number, I just want to say, as.
A kid who didn't know, have a clue of what I was really watching you and we watched the game, and you love the game, right like you love Shocking, you love Kobe, and like when I think back to being that young kid watching y'all play, what I knew was just like fish make big shots, Like I don't care what else you talking.
Fish make big shots. And when I go back and I watch.
As an adult, as someone who actually understands the game of basketball. What you provided for that team from a leadership person, like actually going through the grind and like knowing what it takes and then like to look back.
But the leadership you provided for that team, the selflessness you provided, the defense, the toughness you you were so much to that team that the I call myself the naked eye who really didn't know what was going on, Like you didn't have a clue, You're stupid, like me, like man deficient big shots, like because that's what you can see and like to look.
Back and understand and know your impact on the game.
Number one, I just want to say thank you for being who you are to the game of basketball. But number two, as somebody in your position, what what what was it like for you going through those championship runs? And when you're going through those championship runs, you know you don't quite get the credit for all the things that you're actually doing for that team.
Yeah yeah, Now, well, first of all, thank you for breaking that down. I did not know the history of like how much you are really respecting and follow Shack and then followed him from Orlando to l A And I followed him from Little Rock.
To to La myself. You know, him coming in.
Free agency a couple of weeks after the draft changed my life forever, man, And so I appreciate you saying those things, and you know, honestly, for me, I think as a kid, like as you mentioned, like when you're watching the players that you love and respect the most, you start to internalize and visualize, like what success looks like for that person or the team that he plays on. And I was a Magic Johnson fan growing up, my all time favorite. But I knew I wasn't sixty nine.
I knew I wasn't going to be Magic Johnson. But winning was like that was going to be my superpower. I knew I wasn't going to be the guy with the longest wingspan, the most height. I wasn't the most talented or skilled guy. But in those moments when my ego wanted to tell me to try to do more myself.
I would have to try to pull.
Myself back as a man and say, but bro, you want to win more than anything, because that's the only way you're actually going to get.
The recognition that you feel like you do deserve.
It's people got to look back like you said, and really see the impact that you provided that was not just statistical. And I mean those are real time conversations throughout the season, because there were nights where as you know, it's like, bro, don't play me.
You don't think I can't do more.
It's just just you're choosing not to do more in order to best allow for the team to be successful.
Absolutely, And I know I know for me.
Having stuff having a clay where it's like if nobody else appreciate you.
Those guys like go to bat for me, those.
Guys appreciate me, and so on those nights where it's like, man, I know I did way more than anybody's ever going to say than anybody's ever going to give.
Me credit for.
On those nights where you feel like it don't matter, it's the support and the love from those guys for me that kept me going.
What was that like for you?
From shock from cold Like on those nights that it's like, yo, I know the impact I just had, But nobody out there is going to say what was shock and cold like from that aspect?
Yeah, No, that's a great question.
I think they had, you know, two different perspectives on that, like Cobe and I came in as rookies the same year, and our relationship was forged on those stay ready days. You know, were playing four quart one on one. You know, we lifting weights together, We're doing conditioning together, and we really built that sweat equity with each other, and he saw where I came from. He didn't play a lot
his first year. I didn't play a lot my first year, So there was that commonality we had that by the time we got to those championship years, he had seen my grind, so he appreciated all the little things that I had done along the way. He knew I could do more because every now and then I would score when when we played one on one, so he knew. I knew I could do a little more than I showed in the game at times. But he respected the
impact that I had in all the intangible ways. And then I think for Shaq like I started to earn
that trust from him. In my second season, Nick van Exell had had some knet issues and he was out for a couple of weeks and we went out on a big road trip Pacers Knicks at the Garden, kind of like an East Coast swing, and you know shot got double teamed against everybody we played basically, and in my first game as a starter, I remember an interview before the game with Brian Burdwell, who worked with TBS at the time, and he interviewed me, you know, he
knows I'm nervous my first time started in the NBA, and I was like, Brian, look me, I don't care if I have two points in twenty assists.
I just hope we win.
I ended up having twenty points tis.
Because Shaq was kicking it out when he was getting double team and that's when I started trusting that I could make big shots in the fourth quarter. I knew Shaq trusted me after that experience, and then that just carried throughout the rest of our career. But on nights when I didn't make big shots because he knew I could, he appreciated the fact that I didn't try to do too much and I always made sure the big dog
got fed so that he would protect the house. And that that was that was our relationship the whole time.
That's incredible, man, that's it just brings so many similarities for me because, like I said, the confidence, what Steph say to me, like yo, shoot like, let that one go. It's like all right, like that, Like it takes the confidence that much higher, knowing that the guy like Clay like, yo, why you ain't shoot that one? Like yeah, the guy They're like, yo, we want you shooting the basketball. What
that does for the confidence is absolutely incredible. But this is champs only, so we must talk about, uh some about obviously a team that you played for, Dallas Mavericks and briefly, very brief, very very breed had a cup of coffee. I'd like to say Game four that uh, Dallas stays alive shocks me. I must say, you expect them to come out and play.
Hard like they did.
Uh, did not expect them to come out and get up fit, which crazy to see, but just getting into it, just straight into it, Like what was your what did you take away from that game? Very lopsided? But what was your initial takeaway? And just seeing game four?
I mean, I did feel like Dallas could possibly win the game tonight, but not by fifty. You know, there's no way that I anticipated it would be that lopsided of a victory. I was asked by one of our parents on my high school team that I coached like, what did I think about the game, And I said, you know what, like, I do think Boston will struggle in this fourth game because they haven't been at that doorstep.
They haven't been at three wins, and they see that fourth win right over the finish line, but it's still so far away, bro. As you know, like getting that fourth win is oftentimes be literally the hardest one that you've ever played in, and so I thought they would struggle with that. You know, mentally wouldn't necessarily understand how to play in that type of game. But I definitely didn't see Dallas smacking them up like that. My biggest takeaways thought that they played faster, and that to me
was the biggest difference. I remember watching because sometimes faster can also equal greater force, right, And I remember watching last year when you talked to Steve and how you talk about how he always goes forces first, like X and OS is cool, but it's a fight, and whoever brings the force to the fight first normally is able
to impose their will. And Dallas did that basically tonight, and Boston thought that they could ease into that and it was too late, man, But it was over before it really got started.
Yeah, that was that was very interesting.
Like you said, Steve is always like yo, our number one adjustment is our.
Force, and that was Dallas.
Like, yeah, they played faster, but the points in the paint, like you looked up at halftime, I think Dallas was five for fifteen from three. Boston Celsius was five for nineteen from three, But if you looked at the points in the pain, it was like thirty four to twelve. I think at that point Dallas was out rebounding them by maybe fifteen or sixteen rebounds.
That's all a force thing.
Now my question to you, I have a question because obviously we've both been in the position when you look at that game and you say they beat them by forty eight points when you're Boston, are you coming back into that game now like we know that.
Was a fluke, let's go ahead and close this out.
Or are you a little shaky, like, man, I ain't know they can do that to us, like almost like you took a big hit of you boxing, Like what's your mindset now if you're Boston?
Yeah, I think psychologically, I know it's talked about a lot like you when it's it's a blowout like that, it's almost easier to kind of get over and flush and move on from than like a close one. I do agree with that in theory, but I do think sometimes what happens, not that Boston didn't anticipate that Dallas was capable of beating them, but I think sometimes what happens, and you tell me what you think. In a blowout game like tonight, Tim Hardaway starts seeing the ball go
in the basket. And when that starts to happen, now when you go to Boston and you need a fourth or fifth guy, Kyrie Luca, Dereck Jones Junior, PJ. Lively, and then all of a sudden, Tim Hardaway can run on nine ten points in one minute. That starts to change the situation a little bit. So I'm not saying I think the Celtics will obviously bring the records are forced to Game five, but Dallas for sure is a little more confident and they feel like, well, we're definitely
gonna bring the force as well. And we got Tim Hardaway Junior feeling a little better. Dante ExHAM saw the ball going the basket a little bit. He's starting to feel more comfortable in the series. I think Boston is still close it out, but Dallas definitely Dallas feels better. I don't know if Boston feels surprised that they couldn't beat them, but I do think Dallas found some things that they might be able to take to the garden.
That's just me.
That's why this is Champs Only.
Because listen, if you have not won a championship, I don't want to hear you talk about winning the championship or what happens in championship games. I quite frankly don't
have the time for it. But this is the whole reason for Champs Only because when I'm watching that game, Fish, I'm sitting there watching that game, and I'm like, everybody's probably turned their TV off and you know, on about their day, like oh it's a blowout, And I'm sitting there watching that game, and I'm like, yo, Tim Hardaway
and got going. This could be trouble for Boston because now, in true fashion, Jake Kid going to go to Tim Hardaway probably first second guy off the bench, just to see if it's something there, like to see if like oh if we found something, did Tim find this jump shot? If Tim found this jump shot? That's one more guy that can pull that defense outside. They're not plugging, they're
not playing boxing elbows. When we got Luke and Kyrie trying to drive, he can extend that defense un And I'm sitting there watching that game, and I'm like, yo, this is a big mistake. They let Tim Hardaway get going, and sure enough there are forty five points.
What play does ja here? Run out of the time? Out?
Backscreen, downscreen, Tim Hardaway thrill and as you know, and then on the flip side, Peyton Pritcher was out there bombing, you know, And so the like, I don't people do
not understand the mindset. Like I always tell our guys if there's ever a blowout, I go to our guys who's going in the game, and I say, listen, let anybody score, But you cannot let one or two guys that you know, like, oh, that guy's good enough to actually change the like, let those other three guys score, because if they score, those guys can't come to anything
in the cities. But there's two guys out there right now that if they score a few buckets, they're going to feel better about them They're going to feel good about themselves. And now we're going to have to put that fire us and we don't want to have to put a fire out that we haven't had to put out all of this time.
And they let Tim Hardaway get going. And man, I think that's true.
I mean, and you know, sometimes people wonder, like, Okay, the other team took their starters out, why isn't coach taking his starters out out of there? Yes, and if Steve does it, there's other coaches that do it, Like He'll leave y'all in for another two three minutes. Because no, bro, we don't just like sprinkle some water on this fire. We're putting this fire all the way out. We're not gonna let it get going because we don't want them
taking that psychology, that mindset into the next game. We want them thinking they have no shot of winning the next game, even if they are, you know, going to come out with the greatest forts or whatever. So it's it is part of the chess match for sure.
In the series.
That's gold right there, chefs only goal. There's been a lot of talk over the last two days about Lucas defense, and quite frankly, I think it's bullshit because he's not defending any differently than he has for And if I'm honest, I've seen in pockets of this playoff like run for them and pockets him defend at at the highest level i've ever seen them defense before, correct, And it's always like, oh, they're down three to zero, here's our chance to attack him,
here's our chance to attack his defense. And I hate shit like that, Like y'all ain't attack him when he had forty twenty and fifteen on somebody, don't attack his defense now because it's the obvious thing that your little basketball brains can talk about. Be Like, I don't like that, And like I said, I think at times throughout this playoffs he's been at an elite level defensively by his standards.
What number one, what do you think of what they've made of his defense over the last couple of days. But number two also where you need Luca to be from from a player standpoint obviously you've played with championship players, but also from a coach standpoint where you need him to be on that side of.
Yeah, no, I understand exactly what you mean about the larger kind of narrative around, Like let's single something out that has always been there, maybe, but we're going to make a big deal about it now. Luca's never been all the NBA defense, so it's not something that we're surprised about that he isn't consistently elite. But to the point you made in this playoff run, you have seen him take two three steps forward in putting the effort into that end of the floor that we had never
seen in the past ever. And I think in one of his postgame interviews maybe against the Clippers or okay, see, he actually jokingly said because they talked about his defense was pretty good in that game, and he was like, hey, I mean, it's the playoffs and I want to win, so I am gonna put a bit more into it now than I normally would. So I think he has improved.
But of course, in order to win it all right, Like, there are times where you have to become something that maybe you haven't been as much before, and he and he's showing a willingness to try and be that. But you can't ask him to go forty fifteen nine and guard the other team's best players and rebound and take charge it. It doesn't work that way. There's a reason why Steph has always been a better defender than people have given him credit for. But he can't guard the
other team's best player for thirty minutes a game. Absolutely, that's not in alignment with the role that he actually needs to play best. So I think Luca has improved. It's something I think he'll continue to learn and grow from. I think this experience, assuming they still come up short. As you know, once you kind of get a little taste of it and you kind of start to understand, Damn, I thought I had enough, but I really don't. I
thought I was given enough, but I really wasn't. I thought I would slide to my feet, but the tape don't lie.
Like now, I got to live with this until next season.
My guess is he'll be a better defender throughout the regular season next year to continue to show that commitment that he's willing to do it, because he's probably going to feel like we have a legit chance to win
the NBA Championship if we keep this group together. So as a teammate, I would of course want him to be better in situations, timely defensive effort and energy, and the same thing to me as a coach, for my best players that I know, they carry the water so far, bro, Like, you can't ask them to also pour everybody cup and serve them and make sure that the other people are never uncomfortable, Like we have to also have his back.
So that means if Luca.
Is Kobe and I'm Kyrie, like, I have to do more on defense to actually make up for the fact that I can't ask Kobe to chase ray Allen off staggers baseline screens, screen the screener actions, and go play offense the way we need him to play offense in order to beat the Celtics, I have to take the challenge of chasing ray Allen. So that's that's almost more on me than it is Cole And so that's for Dallas.
PJ.
Washington and Dear Jones Jr. Have been playing that role. So now, okay, can Kyrie play better defense? Can Tim Hardaway Junior play better defense? Can other guys do more to cover up for the fact that we can't ask Luca to be the MVP on defense too? Man, he
basically third in the league in MVP overall. Like that's not really fair all the way around in my in my opinion, So that's a long way of saying I would expect him to be able to give us more when necessary, but there's no way I'm asking him to become all NBA defense when that's not really who he is and we don't necessary they need him to be in order to win.
I agree one hundred percent.
I think it's garbage that the lazy folks on TV try to pinpoint it out all of a sudden, like, oh, it's his defense, Like it's his defense the reason they're losing the game. And it's like, bro, he's playing more defense than the ever player. Why did they get here all of a sudden and now it's his defense that's losing them the game. Like, I think that's lazy. I think that's garbage. His defense hadn't been great, that's cool, But come on with that.
Narrat so you can say free throws more so than the defense, Like yeah, he and but he historically at times in late games, maybe due to fatigue or you know, just from a mindset perspective, like just a missive free thrower. Two that not because he's not a great shooter. He just happens to miss him. He missed one late in the Okase game that almost cost.
Him a game. So you can point to that even.
More so than the defense to say it, you know, as something you want to point out.
But anyway, I know we could go on forever for sure.
No I And you know what I always tell my guys, Like for any guy that's a little less of a defender, right, like, yo, just don't give up a straight line drive. Like if you can make him literally just take a small veer off the path that he's trying to go on, just a small vear, I can get there and help and cover it up for you.
Like if you just give him a straight line drive.
It's hard for me to not overhelp and give up something crazy over here because I overhelped.
So like, just give me one slide. Like, if you give me one slide that you're still in front and he get past you on the second slide, great, no problem. I'll be there. I'll cover my man and I'll cover him to like don't like not for you to worry.
You have to know about your teammates, like you understanding your teammate strengths and weaknesses and how to cover up
for those things. And so Phil Jackson was one of the guys that he would talk about Tony Kuk coach when they were in Chicago, and how like they started to understand like if they saw Tony on the island with some of the greatest players to ever play the game, they weren't going to just leave him over there slide, make them turn, you know, make them use a change of direction, and then now we can provide some support.
I personally think, yeah, Luca could be better, but he has put way more possessions together on the defensive end, where he's at least turned the guy a couple of times or at least forced him to change direction a little bit to still get downhill.
You know, Yeah, we could definitely point it out, how brake.
And how much more can you ask for that? Then at that point, if he does that, if Lucas slides his feet once, slides his feet twice, make a guy turn direction and y'all not there to help. That's on their defense.
That ain't on Luca, Like, that's that's on your defense because you're supposed to be there to cover for him anyway, you know, the way I look at it, why could and like Steph got so much better defensively now Steph actually became one of the better defenders on our team, which if you watched him in twenty and fifteen, you would have never thought by twenty twenty two he's one of the best defenders, or twenty one, he's one of the best defenders.
On our team, and he became that.
But my thing is the way I've view for anyone that needs some help on how you should view this.
This man covers up for me, for me.
On some some things offensively, then I better be there to cover up for him some.
Things defensively, like because that's how this thing works. Where I may fall a little.
Short of the glory, you pick me up there, and where you may fall a little bit shorter of the glory, I'm gonna pick you up there. So it's definitely on they guys to protect Luca more Luca. That does not That does not say, Luca, you don't have to try. No, you everyone must give effort. And if you give a little bit of effort, those guys for sure better.
Be And in Game five, he probably going to have the best defensive game he's ever played in order for them to have a chance to win.
That's gonna be real. He will be tested on that end of the floor for sure.
Absolutely.
Do you think I thought, uh, Dallas were great defensively, all the rotation was there, even had Luke on a couple of chopped the boxes and going vertical.
I thought the defense was great. Do you think it's possible for.
Dallas to repeat the defensive performers that they had tonight?
Yes, because I believe, you know, there are times where when there's no other choice, right like you feel like you've been doing it. But I'm sure the coaches put on tape. The close outs just weren't good enough in game three. Yes, you know, the rotations weren't sharp enough. You didn't give your body up in that situation. You missed a box out, you missed a communication opportunity to make sure that your teammate understood what you needed him
to do. And so they internalized those things and went out and executed. Obviously, at home, there's also a greater sense of pride, you know, in making sure certain things happen in front of your home fans, family, etc. But I think they can take they will take that same mentality to Boston. I think the question will be more, uh, will Boston be better? And you know, what we all want is for both teams to be the best of themselves on Monday Night. Yes, and we have an epic game,
and whoever wins is it wins. But both teams at their best. Dallas taking their defense to Boston effort, force, energy, uh and then Boston at the Garden shooting the ball better, their defense will probably be better. Porzingis is still going to be missed. I mean that the Celtics were able to win Game three without him, but as the series goes on, when you're missing a player of that caliber,
it will start to catch up at some point. For foul trouble changes everything you know without poison is available. So there's still some interesting storylines. But I think Dallas will bring their best selves to the game. I just I think we all feel though that when Boston is at their best, there's there's still there's still a gap there.
Yeah, they're better. Is definitely better uh than than Dallas for sure.
Uh So with that being said, uh and would love to hit a couple more topics with you.
Will, With that being said, give us your prediction for game.
Man, it's a tough one. I don't think Boston feels that you know, you have. We have we played in some games like home games where you're up maybe three to two mm hmm, and you feel a little bit more pressure and anxiety that doesn't allow you to quite come out and play as relaxed and and free as you need to be able to play. And that's sometimes
leads to a slow start by the home team. And that then if Tim hardaway so seeing quick and makes two three threes, Luca is aggressive, you know, right at the start, and all of a sudden, Boston, after losing by forty eight, is down by ten in the first five minutes. You know, that cycle can start to some degree. With that being said, I think Boston will close it out.
On Monday night. I don't know what it'll look like.
I don't know if it'll be a Boston avalanche of thirteen out of twenty six from three or I mean for them, they're going to attend forty three, so that I don't know if it'll be an eighteen out of forty type of three point night. Oftentimes, man trying to win that last one, it's going to be ugly and you're gonna have to get it out there.
It's never going to BEng just never what No, I don't know why it doesn't work doesn't, but it never doesn't.
It just doesn't. It could happen on the road, like when Steph Wood drop fifty in Sacramento. That's more likely to happen on the road than at home. It's just different.
That's a fact.
It really is, like those great, great performances oftentimes, you know, Michael Jordan with the flu game, Lebron in Detroit.
Game seven, Lebron in Game seven versus us Kyrie Lebron.
It's more likely to happen on the road than at home.
So I do think, you know, if Boston starts a little clunky, you know, they could start to feel a little something.
But I think they'll throw this one.
Away to night. I think they'll close it out on Monday. I have no idea what the score will be, but I just feel like Boston is better and they'll win Monday.
I love that. I think.
You know, it's interesting because say we get to a spot where during the series it's like, oh, we got them figured out now, like we're good, like we got it. And Derek Lively said today he said, we think we got them figured out now, And he said this before them like, wait, well before to winning the game, like in the first quarter, he's like, yeah, we actually think we got them figured out now, and then to go on and win.
For your rookie to say that means.
Y'all been discussing this and then y'all go on and win by forty eight points? Do I think you're even if you gotta figure it out, you're gonna win by forty They didn't win by forty eight, but they got by four. But that you're getting up about forty eight and even if you have something figured out. I don't necessarily believe that, but I do think there is something to say for Lively saying no, we got them figured out in the first quarter.
And then the game that happened happened.
So in saying that, I expected more of this Dallas team anyway than the Dallas team that we definitely saw in the first couple of games. But it is tough going back for Game five down three to one, where they're like, yo, they were supposed to do that.
We went and did what we were supposed to do.
We won our one on the road. They did what they we supposed to do. Now let's go close it out. Because and the reason it's tough because.
Boston is the better team.
Like I don't think there's anyone in the world that doesn't think Boston is the better team. And like you said, if they play their best and Dallas play their best, Boston wins. However, for a team like Boston that's gotten close and not being able to get over the hump you you can, you.
Can't ship the bad you can.
And so with that being said.
Go ahead.
I think this was a little like I think this was a little more like Minnesota versus Dallas, where we all thought Minnesota was done and then Dallas, Uh, you know, they men in Minnesota had a big game. I'm gonna say this is a lot like that. We thought Dallas was in the can. They're a prideful team. You don't get to the NBA Finals without being a pride for team. And they came out and played the way they're supposed
to play. But Tim Hardaway now got to go on the road and hit them shots a little bit different, hit them shots on the road. So, uh, you know, I think it's something to say for them going inside throwing the ball, the gaffer making it a point saying we're going to out physical, y'all. I just don't know if the our physical are going to work in Boston in front of that crowd, And I gotta go with Boston closing it out there five.
They in game three, they you could tell they made a concerted effort to activate jt defensively. Yes, so instead of instead of hiding, not hiding because he can't defend, but essentially like conserving his energy and having him guard Gafford so that they could switch pick and roll Dallas. What's going away from that the first couple of games
because Boston is so effective in there switching. But then there was an adjustment made where they decided, you know what, let's actually bring Jason Tatum into the action and attack him and force him to have to work on the defensive end. I thought that took some of his legs a little bit. They did it a little bit in game two, some in game three. They still obviously close the game out, but I think that's something they feel
like they may have figured out. And so when he is guarding Gafford, they're gonna post him and dip into his legs a little bit, burn that energy and try to wear him down over the course of the game.
But I agree with you. I somehow this is just you know, me and us talking like that.
If they don't remember you guys closing them out in twenty two at home and like literally tell themselves on Monday night, I don't care what happens tonight.
Bro.
We are not walking off this court without a victory. There is no way they are beating us on our home court. And we have to go back to Dallas and play game six. It's not happening. And then whatever they do from there, it may not look pretty or whatever, but it just has to be a decision. And you would think that this is the year. You know, they've
been close. It had some opportunities, you know, you guys experience and ability to understand those moments in that series and take advantage of them, like they're that team now against a team that hasn't.
Been there, you know. And so I.
One with tell you they should finish it off on Monday night. But these young guys are different, you know, so magical happen Kyrie special you never know.
That's a fact. That's a fact.
By the way, That's why this is chefs only again, because you all just wouldn't have never known, You would have never noticed how they were going away from Jason Tatum and bringing them in. And you know, when you've been through these series and like you understand how important the adjustments is. Like I love having these conversations because for me, as someone who thinks I know a bunch about the game, like I continue to learn and having
these conversations, so it's always fun for me. So number one, I just want to say thank you for the education that you just gave out on the Drey Money Show because myself, for me, I just learned some things and I am excited about it.
Check this out. Though. I was recently on the Big Fellow podcast.
Uh shackstra Domins Shotts are the big the Big Shack this you name it, the Big Aristyle I was on this podcast. He was on the show and we discussed the old one Lakers versus seventeen Warriors.
Not quite.
Frankly, if I'm honest, I hate when people had these discussions because it's like you, these people people had these discussions and it's no merit to the conversation or anything.
A bunch of hypotheticals of what is.
However, I hypothetically love fucking having these conversations with guys.
That's been a part of it, and so let's discuss this.
Like me and Shaq obviously disagreed on who will win the series. I quite frankly got us beating y All in five. But like how you see this series going fish.
Yeah, no, I mean, obviously you know it's champs only. You have to respect champions, So I absolutely, you know, in five I think is you know, I don't know if you've got the Lobos in there with you or what's going on. But in five, I don't know about that. I mean, Champs against champs. It should be a battle. You know, it should go to game seven. It's like you said, it's always fun, even though it's not real right to just talk about the possibilities and the matchups.
And you know, you obviously always should think your team is better than anybody else's team that you know that got it done in that way. You know, it's hard to explain to people how physically dominant Shock really was. Like I think people see the videos, they see the backboard smash and all of that, but I don't know if there's a recognition of like the way we now run pick and roll to put pressure on the rim
to create threes. Shaq literally was every pick and roll you ever try to run, you could just throw it to him to get the ball to the rim.
Like it.
And the most Christian shots in basketball are at the rim, corner threes, free throws, and we got all of that because of him in theory. And then obviously Kobe was able to do a lot. But am I naive to think that, like who's garden Kevin Durant? You know what I'm saying, Like, like, like Rick Fox was amazing defensively, Maybe that's a cover that he could figure out because Rick was physical, and you know, but KD was KD
obviously Stephan his prime. How elite you guys were defensively, you know, like we were Wish with our one team, we were fairly predictable because.
Of shock shocks dominance, so you know what I mean.
So so defensively, you know, you guys definitely would have been able to scheme some things and try to you know, maybe front and back them and send a guy over on the baseline side on if he was fronted as the ball was in the air.
But you know, shot.
Literally has changed people's dinner work bro like that. Just no double team, triple team, anything could could bad them.
So all of that to say.
To me, when you talk about like the greatest teams ever, it's gotta be a coin toss, and it probably would depend on who has home court help, and it depends on what rules are we playing. That's true to the way I can play defense. We might have a chance because I'm beating him up if I can hold the ground like we could hold one compared to what we might be to guardian.
Fish.
I may have to get thrown out of one of the games because I gotta come get you off my man with a crazy screen one of these games, like I can't just let you grab my man, you know. But honestly, for me, like you know, y'all, y'all were to y'all were the golden standard, Like we grew up watching y'all, and the Spurs dominate everything for me as
a kid growing up in the state of Michigan. Obviously, you know, seeing the Detroit Pistons and their dominance, and I know they were able to win one championship, but they were going to conference finals each and every year, couple of finals like and that was kind of the standard. And like the brand of basketball that y'all played inn is obviously totally different than the brand of basketball that's
played now. And you know, when I look at like the rules that y'all played by, quite frankly, if I'm honest, I don't think we could have beat all at those rules, like no chance, Like we play a totally different game. However, if the rules are how they are today, Like, I don't think there's a chance y'all could keep up with us because you can't grab like so now guys just
moving around his speed. It's a bunch of and with those rules, sides becomes less important because you're almost protected from the size, you know, And so it's a very interesting thing none the less.
Man, I think, uh, you know, just.
Just to be in that for me to be in a conversation of the teams like I grew up watching like the Lakers, the Bulls, like the Pistons, the Spur, Like to be in the conversation with those teams, to me, it's always mind blowing because those are the teams like as a basket, Like I was a kid that went to sleep with my TV on I slept the whole night with it on, and it's on ESPN All Night Sports Center, Like I'm I eight breathed, and you know what else basketball like NBA basketball, and so just.
To be mentioned with those teams, for me, it's more of an honor.
Yeah.
Same here.
That's why I like, I refuse to kind of try to fall into the like, oh yeah, well we would have and this and that is just to even be in the conversation is amazing to begin with, and like you have to show respect man to teams that have got Like I got asked about how I'm gonna feel if the Celtics and or when the Celtics do win the title as a former Laker, and I'm like, well, yeah, of course, you know, I would want the Lakers to
win as much as possible. But the way that I watch, I mean, I had two years ago to state but I'm not part of the Warriors fabric in the way that you guys are. But I can watch it and respect it and cherish greatness and teams that win. Idols found a level of greatness in that season that nobody else did, and I can't hate on that. I might not love it, but I'm not hating facts?
Are you always got a respect the chanlenge? I always say that. Uh, before we get out of here. I know you're a w NBA basketball fan obviously, Uh. With the being the coach in the w n B A and knowing some of the some of the great talent that's in the w n B A, what do you make of this massive rise in the popularity of the w n B A. And I think we're starting to know more and more of the players, which I think is huge. Uh, but what do you make of this current rise in the popularity of the game.
I mean, I think it's amazing. Man, I don't I don't even want to say long overdue. Like every everything, it's about timing, you know, it's about different variables aligning
in certain ways. And similar to the men's game, it takes specific players, not just great players, but specific players at specific times that create a level of interest and intrigue and greatness in their performance that brings people to the game in a way that not because Doctor j was amazing, George Gervin was outstanding, Oscar Robertson was that dude. George Miken was crazy. Have the check, Bill Walton, We just lost Bill Walton. We just lost Jerry West. Like
those guys were as good as it gets. But the timing of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird coming into the league after playing in the NCAA title game, some of the underlying social things around a white player and a black player, like you're seeing a little bit of that andur Reese and Caveen Clark, and so it brings forth this conversation around like there was a lot of discomfort in the eighties and there was a lot of assumption that white people were fans of the Celtics and black
people and minorities were fans of the Lakers, and there was this divide that was created as though it was black against white when it really.
Was Lakers fans against Celtics fans. And that's okay.
And so I think the popularity of the game, it deserves it. We all need to continue to invest in it. I think as men, we have to continue to do more with our platforms, with our time, whatever we can do.
To not just talk about it, but like.
Try to positively influence it and impact it so that our daughters and our nieces and all the little girls that are watching this generation. The player grow up with the same way we watched our greats before us and start to see themselves in those situations. So we we have to prop this league up and make sure it continues to grow. Of course, Caven Clark deserves a ton
of the credit because of who she is. But but even when you turn the game on to watch her, you better you better watch what Asia Wilson is doing. Oh my god, you better watch what she's doing. You know,
if you've watched in the past. I mean, Kennis Parker just retired, but goat right if you know Lisa Leslie, like, the history of this game is littered with great women basketball players, and so the rise will also bring a rise to the respect that they deserve that they didn't get just because they came a little earlier, you know what I mean. But but we got to show them love too. So I love it, man. I enjoyed my time in the W.
I would do it again. It's a great league.
And I'm so happy that there's gonna be a team in the Bay Area now that the fans can support up there. And you know that that team will have my support too, for sure.
Man.
Most definitely, I think the W and just watching the growth of it. It has been incredible because I think, you know, for us, we've always appreciated their talent, you know, like we've always appreciated what those women bring to the sport, to the game of basketball, and I think for them to start getting their due, and like, it's not where it's going to go, you know, like I think it
will continue to grow and grow and grow. And the reality is, I think there's so much discourse around the topic because I do think the women do themselves a disservice at times of comparing it to us. And the reason I think they're due to sales of disservices totally actually has nothing to do with the game of basketball, but everything to do with the w is now I think in year twenty seven, yes, and the NBA is in year now, maybe seventy seven. The difference in between fifty years for a company.
Is drastic, for sure.
It's like I night and day. It's like General Motors and Tesla. Like the difference in between the companies are drastic. Now Tesla may be worth more now, I don't know, I don't know the numbers or whatever, but point being like drastic difference, and I think you know, when you start to play the comparison game, you're comparing like strictly from a time standpoint, a baby to like a grandfather, Like just strictly from a time standpoint, literally like fifty years.
It's a long time. It's and not as the hand start that the NBA has on the dump. Yeah, and nonetheless, like I said, the CDs ladies getting the some of the credit that they deserve. The notoriety is coming and it's happening, and I think it's great. Two young stars I think definitely. Now with the Sparks, what's your thoughts on Rakia Jackson and caraeron Brink the new young stars of the Sparks.
Yeah, I mean when you think about the turnover of the roster and you know, going from Hall of Famers and all time greats and Cannis Parker and Coom Makay. You know, Chelsea Gray obviously becoming a Hall of Famers. I can't wait for her to get back on the court for Vegas. And so you think about the way the Sparks have now gone through that process. You know, we tried to stay away from the rebuilt as long as we but now that's you have to go through
it at some point once that window closes. And so I think Cameron Brink and Rakia Jackson are not just great players, but they have the size, the length, the versatility that similar to what's happened in the men's game, you need that on the women's side too. Now, like you have to be able to defend multiple positions, you have to be able to play face in the basket, you have to be able to shoot the three, if you can operate and pick and roll, and both of
those players can do those things. And from what I can tell, they're high character young women. So those are great pieces that the Sparks have added.
You know.
The hard part is, as you know, when you've been winning championships and there's that legacy there, there's that feeling that it has to quickly get back to what it was and instead of understanding, like what you guys have, what great teams have has been built over time and you can't rush that always and so hopefully, you know, the ladies will get some time and get a few
years together. But those two players, specifically, you surround them with the right pieces, some good veteran pieces at the right time.
I think there's a right future in LA for the Sparks.
One thousand percent.
Before we get out of here, last question, you know, we have to talk about, like you mentioned her player, one of the players who's brought out this notoriety, because I think Angel has definitely done her share in bringing that notoriety as well, but less about the notoriety and more about the just the discourse around Caitlin Clark. You got like a lot of people kind of talking for and you know, she's not that she's hiding, but these
narratives just get pushed. What do you make around the discourse? Yeah, no, I think.
You know, sometimes people say all publicity is good publicity, right,
I don't completely agree with that. I do think there are times where the discourse doesn't need to be completely what it is, you know, And so I think some of that has happened with Caitlin Clark, where we've we've kind of gotten away at times from appreciating who she is and what she is without us like it's almost like people are trying to find reasons to kind of dislike or almost like attach it to her, when in reality, she's literally never said any of the stuff that other
people have to say. While also I think those narratives in that discourse, which is why you see such strong reactions from current players in the W, is that it almost kind of starts to create this thing as though they aren't able to have a feeling or an opinion or an emotion around what's going on, like they're supposed to just kind of shut up and be thankful for Kaitlin's rival to the league, like she's saving your life.
And while from a business perspective, yeah, we probably would be able to point to twenty twenty four in her arrival as a launching pad new media rights deal a lot of the positive things that are going to come
to the W from this moment. But to you know, if I'm Asia Wilson, if I'm Neckagoomak, if I'm Diana Tarazi, if I'm one of the all time greats, you can't tell me that just this one young lady alone should get all of the credit for like I should be thankful to her that, you know, I don't have to take a commercial flight anymore, as though all the work I've done in this league the last six, seven, twelve, fifteen years doesn't count.
Like that's what it sounds like.
When we try to make it seem like they're hating or jealous per se and competitive maybe yeah, I mean, look, bro, I was and still am. I couldn't hold a freaking candle to Michael Jordan. But even when I was young and played in the league, I refuse to wear air Jordan's by just generationally, where like growing up, just from a competitive standpoint, it was different, the same way a lot of older guys complain about how respectful and how
you guys show each other love and give each other flowers. Like, just because we didn't do that doesn't mean it's wrong, because we should have probably been doing more of that as men to show love and respect. But still I want to kick you when we get out there on the court. And so I think a this course says gotten off track at times.
My hope is that at some.
Point it'll quiet down around some of the negative things that have nothing to do with basketball, and we'll really start to like like with Whmy for example, like all of that was about basketball everything. He's a generation of talent. We knew it, we saw it. He struggled at times. We were okay with it because he's a rookie. He's not on a great team. He's coached by a great coach, but that it's not their time to be great right now. But we allowed him to go through his ups and downs.
We followed his journey, and we have to respect her journey the same way, regardless of her color. Allow her to go through her struggles. Don't try to make it out to be a bunch of other stuff. But don't also try to make it seem like the ladies that's been in a w and been building this thing and brick by brick by brick for the last twenty seven years, just like they don't count all of a sudden because
she's here, even if she's great. So I know that was that was a long answer, bro, But I just I get passionate about it, you know, because we got to protect that women, bro. Like, we just can't allow people to just kind of make it seem like it's whatever and it's just jealousy and envy when in reality you don't think they want what's best for the league,
which she is. She is great for the league, and the ladies understand that too, But like, don't make it seem like I'm nobody, you know, in the way, Like.
I owe herself.
Yeah, other than competitive respect.
I mean that was literally the Jordan rules, right, since I brought up Michael Jordan, the Detroit Pistons literally did the same thing. So Michael Jordan, yes, which elevated his level of play to what we now know as the goals the go He had not won championships before that. Yeah, he started taking notes, bigger, stronger, understand what they're trying to do, the type of system I need to play in the way I need to be able to move
without the ball, all of that. So anyway, man, I could, I could go forever talking hoops on the men and women sat up.
I love it, bro, I love I love that answer too, because I think, like you said, Kaitlyn's been great. But I've heard no one say Caitlyn got the opportunity to beat this because all the sweat of these women that came before her, you know.
So like it goes, it goes both ways.
Like Caitlyn has one thousand percent broad uptaking popularity to league, which is great, the league is not where it's at today to where Caitlin can bring that up to if these women back to Ryl Swoops and Cynthia Cooper's and Lisa Leslie's like Rebecca Lobos like, I mean, you go down the list like onto DT, Sue Cannas Parker, Sylvia Foxx, Samon Augustus right like without without their work, then it also doesn't get to this point either. So I'm happy
for what she's brought to the league. I'm happy to see them competing the way they competing. Uh Like, keep competing like that because at the end of the day, that's what people playing to see. They're not paying to see a soft game a week game, They're paying to see competitive basketball. So keep competing that way. I absolutely love it. But man, I can't thank you enough for coming on the show. Absolutely incredible to have this conversation,
to learn from you your brain, hear your thoughts. This was a long one. Yeah, and I shout out to everybody who stayed and stayed tuned in. I hope you appreciated this conversation as much as I have. So again, d Fish, I want to say thank you for coming on the show.
Man.
We appreciate it.
Ah, Dre, I appreciate you.
Man.
I have to give you your flowers back where you started the show. You know, when I watch basketball Now, like I watched the game from the lens, that wore the most right as a guy that provides impact and value in ways that sometimes people don't see. But you know it that your guys in your locker room know it, your coaches know it. The people that have spent time with you and been in the bunker with you.
They know it.
But there's a lot of people out here that know it too. And whether we always agree with okay, well yeah, I wouldn't have said that. I wouldn't have handled it like that. Well I'm not you. I don't go through what you have gone through. My life experiences are completely different than yours, So yeah, we are going to handle situations different because we're two different people. But I want to say congratulations to what you have done, meaning there's still more to go, not just on the court.
Obviously, you have a beautiful family. You continue to learn.
And grow and evolve as a man, as a player, as a person that is also showing how to build something off the court that can also last a lifetime. So whenever your time is up and you decide to do something else, you're already on that path.
And a lot of guys are going to follow your lead.
The same way we saw Magic Johnson and like, oh man, I could hoop and like one day be a CEO. I could one day like there are generation of high school players.
Like seeing what you're doing and saying.
Not only can I win championships and be a key piece to greatness, but I also can create a platform and talk about basketball and talk about life and share positive things with other people. And that's something to be valued and respected as well. Man, So keep going, keep growing. I'm a fan. I respect you. I love what you guys have built.
I hate it.
I hate to see you guys not go all the way because it I try to tell people all the time, like the team that passes the most has been the most successful in the NBA over the last So y'all can keep trying to dribble through everything if you want to.
Past is amazing. It does a lot of great things.
So I appreciate the opportunity to be here, man, on your platform. I appreciate you guys, And it's been a truth to be on Champ something. Man, It's it's been enjoyable.
Thank you. That's Champs only.
That's a rapp And I know all of you are probably looking forward to me talking about Clay and following the Warriors and deleting some ig posts or something. I had no idea that happened. I think it's hilarious. Just so y'all know. I laugh when Jackson I logged on here and Jackson's like, Yo, so what about Clay. I'm like, what, Like, what happened? It's like, oh, here, i'n followed the Warriors. I think that's comical. I know you all be one
like somebody feelings to be heard of something. It ain't that ain't never going to be that. That's hilarious. Until next time, Champs Only, baby shout out to the five time champion Derrek Fisher much love, we appreciate you.
Until next time, folks. That's a rap peece the volume