Jimmy Fallon: I Wasn’t Prepared For The Hate… It Was Brutal. I Was Starving, Living on $7.25!

I was just breaking down mentally of like, what have I done? I don't know what else to do with my life. And I think I wrote a letter to my best friend like I'm losing it, dude. What did it say? It's a deep one. Jesus. Jimmy. Jimmy.

I was reading through your business portfolio and it's extremely extensive. You found a production company, a ride, shoes, you got the ice cream, the tonight dough. But the through line here is about making people happy. I've always wanted to please people since I was a kid. And in your eighth grade class, you were voting.

most likely to replace David Letterman on the late night show. Is that crazy? Because I ended up doing that. It does feel like you pulled that into existence somehow. Well, I was beyond obsessed. I wanted to be on Saturday Night Live. So I worked at the Improv where I think the paycheck was $7.25.

You didn't really eat much. I would turn cardboard boxes on the street into tables. It's tough. It's a lot of rejection. But the stage time was priceless. And eventually you get a phone call. I got an audition for Saturday Night Live. This was my big opportunity. I remember going on stage, did my first impression, and I blew it. That was probably my lowest moment. It was very depressing. You'd said that if you didn't make it on SNL before the age of 25, I was going to kill myself.

Did you mean that? Yeah, but I just knew that I would be on Starlight. It was going to happen. And against all odds, I did it. How old were you? 23. So crazy. Jimmy, I found some photos. Can you tell me about this one? Oh my God. Quick one before we get back to this episode, just give me 30 seconds of your time.

Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. but secondly it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app.

here's a promise I'm going to make to you. I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to and we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you. Thank you so much. Back to the episode. Jimmy, what do I need to know about you to understand?

the man that you are and when I ask that question I'm specifically trying to understand your earliest context because you're in many respects an anomaly but you're an anomaly that was very very clear on where you wanted to go in your life from a shockingly young age so i'm wondering what gave you such clarity and what the context was that made made you the unique way that you are gosh

That's a great question. That's going to be the whole show right here because I want to find out. You know, maybe entertaining or being funny is probably or wanting to satisfy people. I think, you know, in wanting to please people, I've always wanted to please people since I was a kid. Like, I don't know if it was my parents or my grandparents, or I wanted to make people...

feel good and give everyone, if I'm at a party, I want to make sure it's the best party, you know, and I'm giving everything. I want to make sure. pleasing or appeasing, one of those words. But I think I've always wanted to do that. And that's kind of what I do now. Do you have like an earliest memory of that behavior?

I think wanting to do good in like, I don't know, at sports maybe or, you know, in grade school or I remember I was an altar boy, you know, so I was. At one point in my life, I wanted to be a priest. Yeah, which I thought, I think I'd be a pretty good priest. I think it'd be funny. I could have good delivery. Someone said to me once, they said, maybe you got your first taste of...

wanting to be an entertainer from being an altar boy because you're up on stage, kind of, technically, and there's an audience, and you're up kind of performing. I mean, walking around, and you're wearing... an outfit kind of you know wearing costume and you know so it's kind of theater in a weird way but i remember just kind of wanting to do good for like be like make my parents proud or my grandparents proud or

There was a kind of, I mean, it all happened so fast that I don't, I don't, I don't have problems with it or go back to it and go, oh, that was traumatic. You know, I just think that I was always like a people pleaser. Your parents were very strict. Yeah, very Catholic, very strict. No cursing, no sex, you know, very Catholic, you know, no dirty words. I would listen to comedy albums.

And my dad would take a key and scratch the curse words out of the record. He would find where the dirty word wasn't stopping and scratch it out of the record so I wouldn't hear it. So I would hear Rodney Dangerfield.

And it would skip to the end of the joke. It was like, well, I'll tell you. And then cut to people clapping and laughing. I go, well, I don't even know what the joke was. And he kind of ruined it. I go, why are they laughing? But I didn't quite. But he would, my dad would tape music videos. You know, we'd have these shows in America, you know, called like USA Night Flight or Friday Night Videos. And he taped these music videos. He would watch them on Saturdays.

go tape to tape of what videos we could see that wasn't offensive at all or sexually inappropriate or something too advanced for us or something what was he like as a man funny life at the party Hardworking, very Brooklyn, very New York. He sang in a doo-wop group on the street corner. So he would go, not professionally, but just that was one of the things he did.

in high school, and then he also fought in gangs. Like, not, just beat each other up gangs. Like, I don't think anyone killed each other, but this was back in the 50s, where they just, one street corner would fight another street corner. And they get together and just have a fist fight or something. Tough guy. He's a tough guy. Yeah. Emotional? No, not emotional. I've never seen my dad cry or any of that stuff. Affectionate?

Yeah. I mean, I got love yous and hugs and stuff like that. Yeah. I mean, not overly, not the way I think I am. I'm hugging my kids every single day and telling them how proud I am of them and saying, I love you. And they say, I love you back. And, you know, I'm overly, you know, where I didn't have that, you know?

I think it was just, my mom was more that. And I think that was kind of put on my mom as you're the emotional, you know, you hug the kids and love them. And he was just more like, yep, I love you. That's great. He was rooting for me always, you know. But, you know, a little harsh, but not crazy harsh. Like, you know, nothing that crazy. Gloria, your mother. Yeah. Gloria's my mom, yeah. Sadly, passed away. I miss my mom. My mom's name's Gloria. My sister's name is Gloria.

My dad's named Jim and I'm named Jim. Very unoriginal parents. Couldn't come up with any other name. Those are the perfect names for you. But yeah, my mom was my... She rooted for me. That was my number one fan. I was the golden child in her head. Whatever I did, she was like, that's my kid. Oh, my God. You're fantastic. You got to go. You're great. She would always root me on whatever it is I did. She would laugh. And I miss her not being around because I would talk to her every day.

sometimes multiple times a day, and, you know, talk about Saturday Night Live, and she'd watch the show, and she'd sketch her, so that was funny. I mean, I would, she was part of my life, and I think part of what built my confidence. Even as an adult.

Yeah, completely. You talk to her almost daily as an adult? Yeah. I would call her and just go, what's going on? You know, she loved to talk. That was her, she was great at that. She had one of those phones that had the phone cords that was so stretched out. from walking all around the house and talking all day, that the phone cord probably was two miles long. I mean, it was a pile of spaghetti on the floor. It's so, I go, gosh, you should get a cordless phone.

You won't even believe how your life changes. You can go anywhere, Mom. But she loved to walk around and talk, so she could talk all day long. But then she would call me and say, like, I saw you on TV. If she saw me, I go, I know, Mom. I'm on that show. She was like, you're on Ellen today. I go, I know, Mom. I was there. That was me. I was on it. But she was my number one fan and loved.

bits that I would do. And she was one of the most interesting people ever. Both of them together are kind of cartoon characters. And by the end, they both kind of would... Couldn't really hear each other, you know. It was a lot of like, what? And my dad would go, huh? I said what? Huh? What? Huh? And they'd just say what and huh until I interrupted. Stop. Just stop talking.

Because let's just move on. You can't hear each other. This is insane. But I wish I could give you the best story of kind of what my mom was like. I mean, I remember going home to the house where I grew up in Saugerties, New York. after I was on Saturday Night Live, or maybe even during. And I came home, and my mom's like, let's go out to dinner. And I go, okay. I go, I don't really need to. I live in Manhattan. Some of the best restaurants. I come home because I want home-cooked, you know.

meals, you know. But I go, sure. I go, but just don't make a big deal. Don't embarrass me. She's like, I'm not going to embarrass you. I'm not. I go, okay, let's go. So we go into this restaurant and we sit in and we sit down and she goes, I'm kind of getting a draft.

And I go, no, no, no, we're not moving. We're not making a big deal. Remember, that's the deal. We're just not making a scene. We're having dinner. Like you said, we're going to go out. Okay, fine. So we're sitting there and she goes, let's order.

I go, you're great. And she goes, I'll have this. My dad's like, I'll have steak. And I go, she goes, I'll have the lamb chops or something. I go, great. So we're waiting. And they come over with my dad and my meal. But they forget my mom's meal. They go.

You know, we didn't put in the lamb. She's like, okay. So we can't really eat. So she goes, thank you. As they leave, she goes, I'm not going to eat. I go, you can't do that because you're going to make a scene. You have to eat. She goes, no, I'm fine. I don't care. I go.

Please don't make a big deal. She goes, I'm not making a big deal. Just where's my thing? I ordered it. I'm like, I go, don't make a big deal. Finally, they bring over this lamb thing. After this whole thing, I go, great. Just eat it. She's like, OK. So she's eating out of spite. And she takes the first bite. And she goes.

And I go, oh, my God. She's not joking. And she's pointing at her throat. And I go, oh, my God. So my dad sticks his finger down my mom's throat. And he's like, and she's like. making these noises. And I go, oh, this is a nightmare. And then some woman runs over. She goes, I'm a nurse. I'm a nurse. And knocking over tables and knocking everything over and grabs my mom and picks up my mom and gives her the Heimlich. And my mom is making a noise.

that I've never heard anyone ever, she was making, I've never heard my mom make this. She was going like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. And then she pulled it and then a lamb ball flew out of my mom's mouth. and hit the wall, and the whole restaurant is just looking at us. And they sit down, and she's crying, and she's alive. And my dad goes, all right, let's just finish dinner. And I go, finish dinner? It's over.

We're going home. We're buying a bottle of wine for that lady. And we're getting out of here. My dad was like, that lady should have been in her own business. Maybe it was mom's time to go. You know, but they were that weird and funny where they're like odd people, but always making jokes. But that was so, and it was embarrassing. But, you know, I remember telling that story.

You know, and she at a party and she would love to hear it because that was just very her. And, you know, she just did stuff like that where just like, oh, this can't be real. A lot of that. Of both your parents, who are you trying to please the most?

do you think? Who are you waiting for the well done from the most? God, that's a great question. I would say probably my mom. I think she, I would like to make her laugh. You know, because she had a great laugh. They both did. But I think of both of them, I think my mom would be the one because I was like, she was a fan of mine.

So it's almost like going like, do you like my new song? Do you like the second record? If you're a fan of the Beatles, do you like Sgt. Pepper? And she would be like... like it i like this you know better because i could tell that she's a fan of mine so she's like oh i like this new thing you're doing or i like the song you did you know i i think that was great because i could get feedback from someone i could tell

was kind of studying what I was doing. For me, being a comedian and being comedic is so... I say this with... the most amount of respect but it's so so strange because it's such a big risk and it's such a unique career to pursue with very little promise of it of financial return or any real Notoriety. When I spoke to Jimmy Carr and other comedians that I've interviewed, there's something a little bit... Say it.

Crazy. Crazy. Mental, yeah. Crazy about it. You know, I never, and I still to this day, I don't care about money. I never cared about money. I never did anything for, I just don't do it. I never did it for money. And I always just, I worked because I liked working. You know, I liked, I worked since I was 13 because I enjoyed, I guess, getting a paycheck, but, you know, and paying for things, but I don't know what things I was paying for.

13 years old but i mean i liked the idea of going into work and working nine to five day and you know doing overtime and i i looked forward to working wherever it was and like maybe it was because i was trying to be my dad because he would go to work in the mornings and then i would see him at night you know when he came home but i i remember just not caring about money and my mom i would always put

laundry in the laundry basket or whatever. My mom would do laundry. She's like, Jimmy, I found $5 in your jeans. And I go, okay, yeah, yeah. She goes, thanks. She goes, next time I'm going to keep it. And I go, do it. I could care less. What am I going to do? She's like, you know, and my dad's like, you've got to start caring about money. I go, I don't. I don't think I ever will. I just don't. It never was a thing for me. I never cared about, oh, I got the most.

Or I got paid, blah, blah, blah. I just loved the experience of it all. The experience of? Work. Any work or? Any work. It led to comedy as well as when I did comedy shows. You know, when you... When you worked at the Improv in LA, it was a great comedy club in Los Angeles on Melrose Avenue. You would go up and I think the paycheck was $7.25. That's what you get paid total.

There's no way you could do that for the money because, I mean, it's worthless. What's $7 going to do for you? But it was the getting on stage, the stage time that was priceless. and building an act and trying to get a persona and build a brand and build a character and work in your act that could lead to a bigger act or a Saturday night gig. A Saturday night gig paid maybe...

$20 a gig. And that was kind of okay money. And they would also feed you on a Saturday. So which is great because I had no food. You know, I was just like living there going like, you know, I got to $7. I can... buy some things, but I, you didn't really eat much. Saturday they would feed you. And I remember my first Saturday gig at the improv. I go in, it's a big deal and I'm brand new.

probably out in LA, maybe six months or something. And I worked my way. You have to do any weeknight. Anytime they call, you have to be up there. And so I did that, and I put my dues in for that and showed up. I did pretty well. I had a good 10-minute act.

And Saturday Night Gig, and I get there, and I see Jerry Seinfeld in the restaurant. And I go, and I go out to the... pay phone and I call my parents 1-800-COLLECT do you know what that is at least just about yeah it's like a way to make a collect call so that you don't pay for it if you have no money so you would call 1-800-COLLECT and someone would have to pay for that

My parents would pay for the phone call from L.A. And I called my mom, 1-800-COLLECT. And she goes, hi, Jimmy. I go, Mom, Jerry Seinfeld is at the club at the improv tonight. She's like, oh, my God. Jerry Seinfeld. Oh, my. God, I can't believe it. She's like, this is the peak of Seinfeld. She goes, is he going to go, do you stand up? And I go, I don't think so. I don't know. He's just eating at the restaurant. I know he's a fan of comedy. And the owner, his name is Bud Friedman.

And so he was there with Bud. So I go in, and I'm getting ready to do my act, which is a lot of impressions. And I'm waiting there, and who goes on stage but Jerry Seinfeld. He just walks on stage. They go, we have a surprise for you tonight. And he gets a standing ovation before he even says anything. Comes out, does his greatest hits. I mean...

crushing every joke. The famous ones, the sock missing from the dryer, the whole bit. He did everything. Then he says, good night, standing ovation, and he leaves. And the guy goes, okay, who's on next? Mark. And this guy, Mark, goes, I'm not following that. And he goes, how about you? And there's two other guys here, like Daryl. No, he goes, I'm not following that. He's like, who's Jimmy Fallon?

And he goes, that's me. He goes, you're up next, kid. I go, oh my gosh. My first Saturday night, I have to follow the greatest comedian of all. I mean, he was the hottest comedian. might be one of the best comedians of all time now. I mean, he's the greatest. I had to follow that. It was my first act. I'm like, and so I went up, and I had this doll, and I would do these impressions about a troll doll.

And different impressions of celebrities that would be the host of the... Like this one. Wow. You do your research. Unless you just carry that around. Like that one. So I would have this doll. Oh, my gosh. This is my act. So I would have this, and I'd go.

Hello, I'm Jimmy Fallon and welcome to the auditions for Troll Productions Incorporated. We're looking for a star or sponsor for our new line of Troll. I would do like a British accent. I don't know why. I thought that was cool for me at the time. Probably sounds terrible to you. And I don't mean to be offensive. We're looking for a star or celebrity to sponsor our new line of troll dolls for our new line of commercials. First up, John Travolta. Then I go.

She's like, I swear to God, I mean, look at his hair. Who does his hair? It's so weird. What kind of doll is this, right? I mean, I can't even play with this thing over here. Sandy would do something like that. This time I came out and I go, first up for the celebrities, Seinfeld. And I go, okay, people, okay, look at these dolls. Their arms and legs don't move. These aren't fun. He's got no pants on.

He's not even wearing pants. What kind of a doll is this? And it worked. And I followed Jerry Seifer. And I was like, and that was cool. And then I went down the list, and I finished my act, and I pulled out a guitar, and I played guitar with the troll doll.

That was my act for years. My name is Jimmy Fallon and welcome to the auditions for Troll Productions Incorporated. Remember these little guys with fuzzy hair. We're looking for like a jingle for our new line of Troll Doll commercials. First up... Were you a confident young man? So if I zoom back to when you were 12...

And you were the class clown in 1986. Were you a confident man? What was going on in your head? I think I was pretty confident. I wasn't cocky. I remember my grandfather and my parents being like, hey, don't be... too full of yourself. They didn't like kids that were too full of themselves or cocky. I was pretty, but I was confident. In your eighth grade class, you were voted by your peers most likely to replace David Letterman on...

The Late Night Show. And you were 13 years old at the time. Is that crazy? Because I ended up doing that. That's so crazy. I ended up doing that. I replaced David Letterman. But you were aiming at that. I wasn't. You're aiming at the SNL thing now? Yeah, Saturday Night Live was my aim. I wanted to be a cast member on Saturday Night Live, which I ended up doing. But then Saturday Night Live is what got me late night.

which was Letterman's show. And then Late Night got me The Tonight Show. When you look back at how, at that age, you were aiming...

you know, as a young man to be on SNL, which is exceedingly rare, but you also went on to, you know, replace David Letterman on The Late Night Show. When you look back in hindsight and go... So if your child came to you and said, Dad, how does one aim at a goal and then accomplish it? And how did you aim at such a goal? And in hindsight, what were the factors that went into accomplishing that goal?

Are there like principles that you could transfer to somebody to make them accomplish such a goal? Because, you know, one of your best friends, I think it was Frank Gentile, records that you are, he says, I've never met anybody more focused. on what their goal was in life it's you know i'm not a huge believer in manifestation as people often describe it but it does feel like you pulled that into existence somehow i remember just being

I don't know what it is. I wasn't that well read or anything like that, but I just knew that what I wanted to do, I think from around 12 or 13. And maybe it's because people said I was good at it or I was making people laugh, you know. So I think when my peers and my friends said, like, you should do this. Like, I think you're going to be famous one day or I think you're going to be a comedian.

You know, I think you start believing it, and you're like, oh, maybe I am good at this. Like, I don't even remember watching Late Night or David Letterman around that time. I knew Saturday Night Live, and I probably did watch Letterman.

johnny carson the tonight show but i think i started thinking oh yeah siren live will be that's what i want to do that's that'd be the ultimate dream because that felt exciting and electric and show business but also cool and edgy and i was like if that would be my goal like how would i do that and i remember like secretly if i threw a coin in a fountain

or if i made a wish on a birthday cake you know which i still do you know that's not my wish anymore but i remember i would blow out the candles and i'd say i want to be on saturday live every year all my birthdays any wish that i could make that's what i wished that i could be on center live and so maybe that pressure that i put on myself drove me to figure it out and see what were the right steps i think

You know, my big decision, you know, was going to stand up and doing impressions. I knew the show could always use impressions and people doing impersonations of celebrities, you know. And so I thought that was one way in. And so I remember doing that, and then I remember reading that people that study at the Groundlings, which is an improv troupe, if they study there, some people go from the Groundlings to Siren Labs. So I moved out to L.A.

and started taking classes at the Groundlings, just in case that could help me. I also knew that there was a management company named Brillstein Gray. that managed a lot of the people that were on Siren Live. And if I could get it seen by Brostein Gray, maybe they would put me in touch with, you know, the Adam Sandlers of the world or the, you know, people that, you know, they had everyone from, I think, Belushi.

on to you know they probably have people on the show now but i remember getting a call from a manager who used to work at bros and gray just left her name was randy siegel And she was great. And she was my manager. I moved out to LA with a manager. And so I thought she would know how to guide me. to say it live what are your parents saying at this time because if you're if one's kid says i'm going to go out to la to do comedy and improv and these kinds of things your dad was a career man

He was working at IBM, I believe. Yes, he was working at IBM. He said to me, I said, he said, look, just guarantee me two years of college. Just go to college for at least two years. I think we made a deal where we said, if you go for four years, I'll pay for two years. And you pay for two years. I go, okay. That was kind of a deal for us. And so I remember going to college for three and a half years.

And on that half of that last semester, I got kind of an opportunity to go to LA to meet with this manager. And I said, I called my parents and I said, I think I'm going to drop out.

and move and go to la and go for it and just try to take acting lessons and take class at the groundlings and try to get an audition for saturday live and they were like all right well really think about this you know this is really what you did who is this person that you're going out to and i go her name is randy siegel she's a manager and i had met her through a guy that i used to work for in

In Troy, New York, I was a receptionist at a news weekly called Metroland. I used to answer the phones and I would also do the personal ads like, you know, men seeking women and blah, blah, blah. I'd type those things out. And I remember he moved to LA.

to be a music manager. And so I gave him my tape on his way out, a videotape of me doing my troll act. And I said, if you see anybody, he goes, well, I'm not doing comedy. I'm doing music. I go, I know. But if you see anybody, maybe pass it along. And so he passed it along to this manager. So she talked to my parents, and they had a phone call where she was like, I think Jimmy's got something. You know, he's green, but I think if he gets, you know, if he goes to work and...

puts in the work, I think that he'll get something. I think he'll be successful. He's green. Amateur. He's not ready yet. You're not ripe. He's green. So if you're green, you're like a green banana. Did you ever give up on yourself or did you ever doubt yourself while you were out in LA? Yeah, definitely.

a bunch of times it's tough when you're just not getting the the it's not working and you want to tell everyone that it is working but it's hard it's a lot of rejection and you end up like you're just trying so hard and you go, I know what I want, but it takes so much time to get there. But in the meantime, you have to take auditions. You have to. Because I was like, I didn't want to take acting lessons because I read somewhere that James Dean...

would go to acting class and just watch and never do the acting lessons. And I liked James Dean for some reason. So I would go and I'd just sit in the back of it and watch everybody. And finally the acting teacher came up to me and was like, are you sure you want to do this? Because I mean...

You can get so much more out if you did this and started working with other actors. I think you should because you're a stand-up comedian. You don't perform with anyone. You're by yourself on stage. I think you should learn how to act with other actors. And I was like...

Yeah, maybe he's right. Like, I'm not James Dean. So I started acting. And then you realize, oh, gosh, I'm really not good at this. I've got to learn how to do this. It's a skill to play off of other people and to listen to other people. So then I started doing auditions because that's my manager would get me an audition for movies and stuff. And I think my first audition was to play a lifeguard in the Brady Bunch 2 movie or something.

And I had to say, like, one line, like, get out of the pool. Something like that. And so I remember going, and my... My line was printed on fax paper. They faxed it over when fax machines were a thing. And they would tell you, bring in the paper when you do the audition. Hold the lines.

so that they don't think that you're off book. So they think that you have a chance of getting better. I go, okay, great. So I'd hold the paper and I go, and action. I go, get out of the pool. Okay. You want to just do it one more time? I go. Okay. It's quiet and it's just so awkward. And I go, get out of the pool or whatever it was. And she goes, okay, bye-bye. I actually said, bye-bye.

And I was like, my face got red. I got so embarrassed. And I got back to my apartment and my manager called me and I go, did you hear feedback? She goes, yeah, you didn't get it. They said that, weirdly, she goes, they said you're too green.

And I go, okay. She goes, but we have to work on it. You know, just keep doing it and keep doing auditions and working on these lines. And you should get an acting coach and go bring the lines to the acting class and go, here's, can you do get out of the pool? You know, whatever better. It just got over and over again, you get rejected and you wouldn't get parts. I got no parts. I probably auditioned for, you know, 30 shows and movies and stuff like that.

And you just kind of, it's tough. It's really tough. Say anyone going into the business or acting or any of that stuff, the entertainment stuff, you're going to get beat up. It's going to be to the point where you're like. I'm so depressed I can't do it. But just know that if you can just get through it and keep working, eventually whatever it is that's going to happen in life will work out.

Maybe you won't even be an actor, but maybe you'll be a lighting director. Maybe you'll work on sets. Maybe it won't be acting, but it will get you to where you're supposed to be if you just keep going. And I just kept kind of telling myself that. And I ran out of money. And I was like, I'm going to have to go home to live with my parents and probably go back to college if they can let me back in.

I think I even might have looked into it, but I was just so bummed out because that's not what I wanted at all. I wanted to be on Siren Live. And, you know, it's just reality was like, oh. He almost didn't feel like living in this world because it's like people couldn't believe that. They're like, that's not reality. You can't just say I'm going to be on Saturday Night Live. I remember going to my Groundlings class. My first teacher was great. His name is Jim Wise. And he goes...

uh what do you want to do and he would go around the horn and people like i want to be in movies i want to be in a tv show i want to be in a sitcom and i said i want to be on saturday live that's very specific that's like yeah It's one in a zillion. That's what I want. And he brought that up to me. He brings it up to everybody. He's like, I'll never forget that. You said that that's what you wanted to do. And that was my ultimate, ultimate.

I said, if I do nothing else in life, that's all I wanted to do. And even if I got on for one season or one episode, then I could do whatever I could. I didn't care what I did after that. What was the fixation with Saturday Night Live? I think my parents loved it and their friends loved it, but that was what they would watch. And that was like the pinnacle of...

That was the best comedy show in America. And so that was the best. So it's like playing for the greatest team, you know, playing for the Yankees or, you know. Whatever, I don't know soccer, but Arsenal? I have no idea. Manchester United. Manchester United, yeah. You couldn't help yourself. Oh, my gosh. But, yes, playing for that. You want to play? Play for the best. If you can make it there.

that's the best team. Then you could do whatever for that if you play for Man U. It's slightly different with you because a lot of upcoming football players would be happy to play for any Premier League team.

Man United is, you know, of course great, but they would aim for any Premier League team where you seem to be like religiously... intent on it being Saturday Night Live. Yeah, it had to be that, because I think that's what we would watch, we would talk about. As a family? As kind of a family, yeah, as a family. They would tape it. We were one of the first families to have a VCR.

which is anyone young listening to this podcast, a video cassette recorder. So it would tape. It's like a DVR, digital video recording. So it's a video cassette, and you would tape it on these giant tapes, and they would... record two hours, you know, on television. And so we would tape the show and then you could rewatch it.

And then I would re-watch it and study it and watch the sketches over and over again and watch repeats and watch the greats and watch Belushi and Dan Aykroyd and people I want, Bill Murray and Steve Martin, people I wanted to be like.

As it got into high school, I was taping it, watching the best sketches, and I would go to my friend's party and show the best sketch that week. And go, oh, this is the best sketch. It's Chris Farley, and it's blah, blah, blah. Or, you know, I would... be obsessed that way i could be almost became so obsessed in high school that i couldn't really hang out with anyone while i watched the show because i didn't like it if anyone didn't like the show and my parents used to let me drink

if I stayed home. So if I didn't go out, they would buy me a six-pack of beer that I could drink at probably, you know, 16 or something or something like that. You know, I'm not... The smartest thing. But they would, you know, I would hang out with my friends and they would say, yeah, they're going to have a couple of beers. And, you know, I would watch Siren Live with a six pack and watch it and study it. And I ended up just stopped watching it with...

Anyone else? You know, I guess I still drank. That's sad that I drank by myself, but I became an alcoholic at 16. But it was a thing that I would... do and i would just study it and i would every saturday night and continuing into college my friends would have parties and they go you got to come right i'll be there at one o'clock they go you know the parties you got to come i go saturday can't go

They go, just tape it. I go, I can't just tape it. I have to watch it live. Obsessed. Yeah. I was beyond obsessed. Obsessed. Without a doubt. That was it. That was the pinnacle. Even I went on like an NBC tour with my dad, like a bus trip to New York City and took me on a tour of NBC to see Siren Live. And, you know, this is, I was older. I was just so nervous to go in the building. Gosh, this is the building. This is what it looks like. And this is the, you know, the.

The doorway and the revolving door. I know all this. I know everything. I know what the walls look like. I know what the ceiling is painted like. I know Art Deco. I knew everything. I geeked out. And I was like... This is the best day just going on tour there. Now I've worked there for 20-something years. You know, it's my home. I've been working in that building since 1998.

I don't even think about it anymore. That's the door going to work. Every now and then I'll walk to, you know, I walk to work almost every day, but I'll get that feeling again. Like, oh yeah, don't lose that. This word obsession, it seems to be, earlier when I said the principles of all the characteristics that got you to where you are today, but clearly obsession is one of them.

I mean, you're obsessed to an extent that I didn't actually realise with becoming a host on Saturday Night Live. Yeah. An obsession is a powerful force, isn't it? Because it means that one can... bang their head against an immovable object over and over again until the immovable object moves out its way. And that's kind of what you found yourself doing in LA. You're sat, you're going to these auditions, you're getting rejected. What was your mental health like in that period when you were in LA?

Because you're dealing with constant rejection. You're running out of money. You're contending with having to go home. It wasn't the greatest. And I'm a pretty positive guy in general. But I think that was probably my lowest.

Looking back, I remember trying to see what therapy was or if I could afford a therapist or what that meant. Why? Because I was just... breaking down mentally of like what what what have i what have i done like what have i done i've kind of made these decisions and i wasn't getting anywhere and it was like I mean, I had really kind of no friends and no social life. Just obsessed with work and obsessed with stand-up and trying to make my act better and trying to see if I can...

Get on Saturday Night Live and having no money and just going like, what is this all about? You know, I can't, I don't know if I can afford to keep failing. You know, I can't live in an apartment if you don't make money. You know, I can't afford gas. to get to the audition. You can't eat. You just go, oh, yeah, I just got to keep doing gigs, but I'm running out of space. So maybe if I go home, I can.

go back to doing these little clubs and make some money, save up money, then go back out and try again in LA. I remember there became a moment where I'm like, oof. I think I wrote a letter to my best friend like I'm losing it, dude. In fact, I know I did because he still has the letter and he works for our show now. And he says, I have it and I'll publish it one day. I'll give it to people if I need the money.

I'll, I'll, I'll release your letter. You, you emotionally broken. I go, you know, but that's what best friends do. They hold it over your head. Yeah, exactly. I'll sell it on eBay. Gosh, I mean, you know, it's one of those embarrassing things. I probably wish I didn't write that, but. What did it say? I don't even ask, but I think it was something to the point, like, I'm losing it. And I don't know if I can make it.

I don't know what else to do with my life. Something to that effect. I miss college. I miss you. I miss having friends. I miss going out. I miss, you know, I think it was that. It was like maybe regretting my decision to move to LA. Was there anything that this Jimmy might go back to that Jimmy and say to him?

at that time, if you could, to some message that maybe he needed to hear that he wasn't hearing. Maybe advice will. Yeah, I mean, of course the advice would be like, it's going to be okay. You know. I think probably the best would go back and be like, hey, I'm proud of you, dude. Like, you're doing exactly what you have to do. You're doing what you have to do to become me.

so i'm so proud of you so keep it up you know you know i mean i would all the things that like i remember just in la and like i remember like finding cardboard boxes that were thrown out in this garage next to me and bringing that in not dirty or anything, but new boxes. And I would put sheets over and they would become tables. So I would use that as kind of an end table next to my bed, stuff like that. And you go, oh, yeah, it's creative.

You know, you could look at it so sad to talk about now and go, oh my God, you're by yourself and you need cardboard boxes, tables? I didn't think about that. I was just trying to be, that would look nice if it had a sheet over it.

And that looked kind of cool. It was very kind of dormy, you know, but I think about, I don't know why it just made me think about it now. I'm just, so maybe, I mean, having cardboard furniture was depressing, but you know, you know, I think that's where you have to dig. and see if you can find the funny in it and go like, if you can perform now, then get ready. If you step in the ring, you're an animal. Well, I am proud of you.

You didn't quit. You didn't, you're really like against all odds. You're doing something that no one in the family has done, that none of your friends have done. You really don't know where this is going to end. And you're kind of. And adventuring into an odd place, you're discovering all new stuff that's never been done. And it's great to do this because one day you'll get tested in a different way.

and you'll be mentally stronger. And so I'm proud of you because this is all tough now, but it will pay off when you need to show your strengths or, you know, it's almost like you're going to the gym. you know, it will pay off one day. Like, I don't want to do it. I don't want to run. I don't want to lift. I don't want to do anything. I don't want to eat. You go, I know, but.

the future of me is telling you, this is great that you're doing this because you're going to have, it's just going to be, when you need it, you'll be strong enough. And so I think I was becoming stronger as I was building it.

I look back, and I wouldn't change anything. You know, at the time, you know, if anything, I would say I want it to happen faster. But not really. I think you have to... lived through all the stuff and go oh yeah now I remember that that was cringy oh that was rough oh I remember that that was bad but that was a good one and then you go oh yeah that was another great one and then oh yeah and then you start thinking of all these stuff that you thought was

depressing then it's kind of charming now and you go kind of i love those days i love the days where you bombed and that was the biggest problem the biggest problem in your life was that you didn't do a great impression of jerry seinfeld like That was the biggest problem in your life? Okay. Then I think your life is pretty good. You look back and go, that was, it meant so much to me though. You know, and I think about that now with my daughters.

You know, they tell me stuff that's going on in school and stuff. And to me, I'm like, you won't even see these kids. This will mean nothing to you. These kids, maybe you'll be friends with them for life. I hope that'd be great, but I don't think so. I don't remember anyone. I don't talk to anyone from my grade school, but it's the biggest thing in their life now. So you can't say that because it's like, dad, this is my life. What are you talking about?

This is the biggest thing. Like high school is so slow when you're in high school. Right now, four years is a joke. Four years is like a joke to me. I go, oh my God, I can do anything for four years. When you're in it, it's long. Four years feels like 25 years. Could you have imagined a reality where you didn't end up getting onto SNL at some point? So if we were sat here now, you're 50 years old, and you're sat here and you'd never done it. I would have done it.

So this is what I'm getting at. I would have found a way and done it. And even just walked on or something. I would have found a way to get on it. I would have found some way to either be an extra or walk in the background or do something. I would have. There's no way. There's no way. I'd have to. But you're saying if I didn't, what would happen? Or you're saying, I don't think it would ever happen. I had to be on it. I was going to make it happen. And I had to do it. You know?

I don't think there was an option. I don't think there, I would have done it. I don't think there's ever an option that I would never have been on that show. I ask the question because there are areas of my life where I sometimes reflect and go,

I always thought that that was going to happen. And the consideration that that might not have happened makes, it's almost like this, like, then life wouldn't have been real. Like then everything I believed would have been a lie. There's small things in my life that...

When you look at me as a young man and I'm filming myself pretending that a TV show have asked me to do something that ended up happening 10 years ago. And I go, it was, that was always how in my brain. I did that too. Yeah. But I mean, I think a lot of. performers have done this where you interview yourself and you pretend you're on a radio show and you go like, here I am. I'm counting down the top 10 songs and here's the vote. And I have cassettes of me doing that, you know.

I think a lot of people do that. When I asked you the question about SNL, you were so convinced that that's always the way that it was going to go. And I'm like, that's what I'm trying to, I wanted to see your reaction when I make you consider that it didn't go that way. I can't see it. not happening. I had to, it was going to happen. I don't know. I don't know if I can tell you honestly that I could imagine another path. I don't even know if I could fake it.

Because I would be lying. I know I would be on Saturday Night Live. I have to. I just, that was, I can't even, I can't lie and say, well, I guess I could have done, I just know. So how did you go from that kid who's writing the letter to his friend saying that he's considering giving up and seeking out therapy and those kinds of things? How did you get from that moment to that first Saturday Night Live audition?

I think you get little things, little good things happen to you. You were going to use the word luck, right? It sounded like you paused on the word luck there. I could use luck, but I'm just going to say... good things i mean it probably is luck i i feel like i'm a lucky person but i think they're just like uh like you i i think i got a

a holding deal at Warner Brothers television to do, like, to act for a sitcom or something, even though I didn't want a sitcom. I remember putting in the contract that if I... get silent live while i'm doing the sitcom that i can contractually get out and they said no that's the whole reason no one can you can't I go, well, that's the only reason I have to get this clause in my contract. And they said, no one's ever asked for that, but okay. So they put it in my contract. So if I...

was on this show, the show didn't get picked up. But if the show got picked up and I got a chance to audition for Saturday Night Live, I could leave the show contractually. Because they were like, it's just, no, it's not going to happen. So I ended up acting and getting a little money. which is great because it's actually, I could stay at my apartment and actually still work on my goal of Siren Live, you know, while not doing, I didn't want to act in sitcoms. But that helped me.

Take a breath and go like, okay, I got a couple more months of opportunity. And eventually you get a phone call? Yes. My manager sent. tapes and tapes and tapes to Siren Live saying, you know, this is, he really wants it, blah, blah, blah. And so I got an audition for Siren Live. This was my first of two auditions. My first one... I went to do stand-up, my troll bit, on stage at the comic strip here in New York.

And I remember going in and having my one outfit that I owned that I thought was the best and, you know, some shirt from the Gap or something and Nike sneakers that were like, it was such a big deal. I only wore them on special occasions. This is it. And I went on stage with my troll doll and I saw Lauren was in the audience. He had his hat on. He's the founder. Yes. Yes. He's creative. And now the late night end of the Tonight Show.

And I remember going on stage, and as soon as I did my first impression, I knew it just didn't work. I didn't have the audience. It was cut down from a 10-minute act to, I think, three minutes. And I had to catch the audience, hook them in three minutes, and leave. And I started the first 20 seconds. I could tell. This is bad. And it was sweaty. It was a bad audition. And I left, and I go, oof.

We went to a diner next door to the club with my manager and I had coffee. It was very depressing. Like, wow, that was it. That was my audition for Saturday Night Live. Lorne Michaels, who's the creator of the show, was there. That was my big opportunity, and I blew it. All right, so let me figure it out. Went back to L.A. They said you didn't get it. How did that feel?

For some reason at that point, I don't remember. I was a bit numb, I think, then. And I think I was on... I was starting to work on my act and really getting into stand-up, and I just kind of kept thinking in my head, I have to get another shot. another chance at auditioning or showing them what I could really do, because that was just not the best that I could do. But it wasn't...

too long after that where I got another phone call from Sarah. How old were you when you got that second call? 23. So I heard you'd said that if you didn't make it on SNL before the age of 25.

I was going to kill myself. Were you actually? Yeah. I wrote that in something. In some journal or something. You wrote what? If I don't get on Siren Live by the age of 25, that'll help. I'll kill myself. Did you mean that? Yeah, I did. But again, I knew that I was going to be on Saturday Night Live. So I guess I didn't really mean it. Because I was going to be on Saturday Night Live.

before i was 25 so crazy i just i knew that i was going to be honest so i wasn't really a threat so funny do you know what's funny is the um Actually, it's in my book behind there. There's a screenshot of my diary. And in the front page of my diary, it says before I'm 25. And it has my goal written in the front of my diary. And I've published it in my book, which is on the shelf somewhere.

Isn't that funny that I had the same thing where I'm like, before I'm 25 years old, I will have to do this. Yes. Yeah. And it happened, thankfully. But did you think when you were typing? I didn't tell I was going to kill myself. Yeah, I think I typed it out. But again, I was into computers. I think I typed it. I think it's on some file somewhere. I think I said I would kill myself. But I definitely said, you know. Yeah, 25 was my thing.

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per month trial. That's shopify.com slash Bartlett. And you get the second call for the second audition around 23, 24 years old. Yeah. So then I said, do you want me to do the troll doll? And they go, no, we'd rather you not do the troll dolls because we've seen that already. Okay. Was that the end of the troll doll? Well, that was my whole act. I don't have much more.

That was, that's all I did was the troll doll act. So I'm like, what do I do? So I just kind of did the troll doll act under a guise of a different thing where it was like a celebrity charity or, you know, so, you know. I think it was it. How you doing? Here we go. You know, my mom always told me to get some exercise. And so she used to say all the time, she'd say, why don't you go to the store with your mother?

Skinny kid. And I would say, I'd say, why don't you shut up? That was the big, that was my big moment. That was the biggest moment for me. That was, that's crazy. That was the moment in the audition, too, that changed everything. Because I was doing a bunch of impressions. And before I did that...

I'm so nervous, but now I'm on the actual stage, and you're there, and a producer comes over and says, Jimmy Fallon, yeah, come with us. They go, just let you know. Lorne Michaels doesn't laugh, so don't let that throw you if you're doing your act. They go, great.

Thank you. And then they go, now go get a hair and makeup. I go, wow, how cool hair and makeup. I go get hair and makeup. They're doing my hair. They're putting makeup on me because they're broadcasting my audition to California so that the heads of NBC can see. And the guy. and girl doing my hair and makeup go just so you know lauren doesn't really laugh in these auditions so don't let that throw you

I go, okay, yeah, that's what I heard. Great, thank you. I go get your microphone on. So they're putting a microphone on me and a mic pack, and the audio guy goes. Just a little advice. Lauren doesn't really laugh, so if you do your thing, I go, what is this guy's problem? Why is he not laughing? He's in the wrong business. I mean, he's in a comedy show. And so as I was doing that audition, I did an impression of Adam Sandler, which was...

what you just played. And I remember at the time it was kind of new because Adam just left Siren Live and no one was really doing Adam Sandler. And I was doing, you know, like... Whatever. And I remember Lauren started laughing. And I go, that's cool. That's a cool story. Even if I don't get Sire Live. But I just knew that he started laughing. He put his head in his hand and he was laughing. And I go.

That's a good story. I'll tell my kids. I made Laura Michaels laugh on Saturday Night Live, on the set of Saturday Night Live. I wasn't really on the show, but I was on the set. And I remember doing that. feeling good about the audition like i left that going uh that went as good as it could go you know that was the best i can that's the best i can give him that was it and i remember one of the

producers Marcy Klein came up to me and said, grabbed my hand. She goes, Jimmy, that was fantastic. You got to feel good. And I was like, and I just felt like, okay.

If they're saying it, I feel good. Then you didn't hear, I didn't hear back for a couple weeks or whatever. It's like, it's crazy how long you wait. Because you... And they go, look, we like Jimmy. We saw him at the comedy club. We were looking for a different direction. You know, for that audition, I think they hired Tracy Morgan. So they were going in a different direction, the first audition. But this one, they call and they go, Lauren wants to meet you.

I'll talk to you. He's going to be out in LA. And he had an office on the Paramount lot. And so I drove into the Paramount lot. I get my name to the front gate. It's a great, it's a great studio.

It feels like you're in the business. I don't know if you've ever been to the Paramount lot, but the giant gates, and it's a movie set, and the gates open, and you go to a parking spot, and there's actors walking around. It just feels like you're in the business, and it's nerve-wracking. I went into Lauren's.

He had like a, you know, some office on the lot. And I remember going into his office and everything was white. And it kind of felt heavenly almost. And I sat across the desk from him and he goes... Jimmy, do you wear wigs? And I was like, oh, no, I just got, I do this to my hair. I just spike it up. He's like, no, no, I'm saying like for characters and stuff. Like, do you, have you done characters like where you wear wigs and stuff? I go.

No. He goes, because we want you for the show. And I just think, you know, with more practice and if you try to do different... And as soon as he... Whatever he was saying, I couldn't hear. The rest was slow motion. I was like... He just said, I got Saturday Night Live. I did it. I got Saturday Night Live. It's happening. I couldn't believe it. And I go, okay. And I shook his hand. I go, I hope I make you proud. And...

I left and I think I pulled over to the first payphone I could get to and called my mom. I'm like, I just got started live. And it was like, you know, you know. You know, it was just crazy. The whole thing's crazy. I'm coming back to New York because I'm going to be on the show that I tried to be on my whole life. I did it. It's happening.

And here we go. And it was like, wow. And I said goodbye to L.A. and my roommates, and everyone was just so happy for me. And then I went to New York and got an apartment in Midtown. It was the greatest thing. And I took Siren Live and went from there and did a couple movies. I met my wife. It's the best thing that ever happened to me. And then... I didn't work for a while after the movies. And then Lorne asked me to host Late Night and replace Conan O'Brien. I did. I worked hard at that.

And then I got asked to replace Jay Leno on The Tonight Show, and I did that, and here I am. Now I'm host of The Tonight Show, and crazy life, and crazy opportunities. it's just so interesting and fun there was a motion in your face where you talked about getting snl and calling your mum it's so interesting that it's decades ago yeah You know, again, like, it's the end of Rocky. You know, it's the thing. It's like, I did it. It's like, yes. You know, you did it. That's insane.

You've got to be kidding me. You did it. What we all said you were going to do, but you went and actually, it's crazy. Not many people do this. And I was like, yeah. And to talk to your mom, who's your biggest fan and always believed in you, you know, that's emotional. And it's like, it's just. this is, how can this be? It's just, I don't know. It was just done. It's just the whole thing's kind of crazy. It's, it's, it's amazing. It's a anti-climax. No.

Because if you aim at that one goal and put it on a pedestal for that long in your life. No, it paid off. It was everything was what I dreamt. It was crazy. Everything. The announcer. Jimmy Fallon. Him saying my name.

I was, like, dreamt of it. He was really saying it. I could watch him. I enjoyed every second of it, every bit. The internet was happening at the time, and then people started sending me fan letters, and then... web pages and it was just like you started getting famous and here's the new york city street i walked on not too long ago being kind of afraid and intimidated now i'm walking and people are going jimmy you know and

And it's cool. And you go, yeah. What weren't you prepared for? Getting rejection. You know, getting your sketches cut. Being told you're not funny. You know, haters.

This is before Twitter and all that stuff, which is a different ballgame that I wasn't ready for either. But you think that it's just going to be like, oh, this is cool. Everyone would be great. But then just people not... Everyone's rooting for you. Some people want you to fail. People's jobs are to take me down, you know, and to put bad press out and stuff. It's just, that's their job. And you're just like, ooh, I didn't think it was.

I don't live in that world. I don't believe that it's real, but it kind of is real. And you go, oh, people are just going to be mean. And you got to, again, just toughen up and get through it and just keep your head down and keep being funny. And just keep doing things and keep being creative. And just, if you move that out, you realize it's not even real. It's real, but it's noise. And it's just, it doesn't affect you. You can only...

Believe in yourself and know that you have to keep going. And if you keep scoring, that will show. Your work will show. That's stuff I wasn't prepared for of dealing with overcoming that, you know. Overcoming that. Yeah, overcoming, like, hating on you or, you know, saying you're not good or something. It's like you don't think that's going to happen. But, you know.

It will, if you're successful, because someone will be like, you know, someone's not going to like you no matter what. As someone that's always trying to please, is that the antithesis of pleasing? for one's brain who is orientated towards making people happy. It's the worst. Yes, it is the absolute worst. I hate it. I want everyone to like me. I can't stand it. I go, oh my gosh.

What can I do to make you like me? I think the answer is you can't. You can't make everyone like you. You just have to do what you do and do the best at what you do. And be happy with yourself. I mean, look, what's the alternative? The alternative is you quit, you... Yeah, you quit or you change you to be, I guess, what the...

person who hates you likes. Someone else will just hate that. Yeah, the original people will hate that, that you change and you go, oh, yeah. I mean... And then you'll hate yourself. Yeah. I mean, there's... love music but i remember like i loved the beastie boys um growing up and there's that one line mike d says like um be true to yourself and you will never fall and it's like kind of is the move

Just be true to yourself. Then there's no, everyone can say whatever they want. It's like, that's who I am. How did you cope with that?

stardom being thrust into public spotlight you're getting feedback from everywhere you're getting the good the bad the ugly you're someone that wants to please do you did you seek any professional help did you get any support no No, I just kind of lived through it and go like, yeah, I think I'll figure it out. I think fame was fun. It's cooler. It's cooler than cool. It's like, wow.

This is what I thought it would be. But it's also, at the end of the day, it's the work and the stuff that you do and the stuff that comes out of it where I'm most proud of, where I'm like, oh. I get to do this. I think this bit could be fun. You know, like I remember we had Mick Jagger on the show and Lauren.

So Mick will do a sketch if anyone has an idea. And they go, I could do an idea where I'm the reflection of Mick Jagger in the mirror. And I'm like, you know, why don't you shut up? And Lauren goes, please don't do that. absolutely, please don't do that. He goes, it's been done. Marx Brothers have done it. It's just Lucille Ball. It's been done. Please don't do that. I go, OK. He goes, but go pitch Mick ideas. I go.

I don't want to pitch him ideas up. You're the producer. I'm nervous. I don't even know Mick Jagger. He's like, just go in and pitch me ideas. So I wrote out like 10 ideas. I'm like, hey, Mick. He's very nice. And I go, um. You know, I was thinking maybe me and you, I play, you play Keith and I'm you. And, you know, we work at a, you know, a sunglass hut or something like that. And he's like, yeah, not that.

And I go, well, then I have this other idea, you know, where, you know, you and I work in an ice cream shop, but we're, you know, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, nah, nah, I don't really like that. I don't want to do that. And I go, all right. And I'm going down the list, and the ideas are getting worse and worse. And I'm just like, oh, my gosh. And then at a desperation, I go.

Or we could do something where you come in your dressing room and I'm your reflection in the mirror. And you're like, why am I doing this shit? I've done it in the 70s and done it in the 80s. And what am I doing? And he goes, oh, I like that. And I go... So I go back to Lauren's office. I go, good news, bad news. Good news. Nick wants to do a sketch. Bad news is it's the mirror sketch. So Lauren was like, okay, we'll do it. And we wrote it in a night.

which has never been done. I don't think, when I was on the show, we wrote it on a Thursday night, rehearsed it once on Friday, and did the show on Saturday. And it worked. And it really worked. It might be one of the best sketches I was ever in. And Mick was so happy that he was so giddy, and he kind of shook my hand through the mirror.

Which is funny because I'm supposed to be this reflection. And it was just kind of cool. And I remember one of those things where I'm like, the room was shaking. And I go, that's cool. Like, dude, that's beyond what I dreamt I could do. You know, being on Saturday Night Live is one dream, but now you're doing a sketch with one of your rock idols, you know, and scoring. And it's great. It's really funny.

everyone's having a good time like you really think but that's something and it was it wasn't meant to be it wasn't written it was all just kind of happened last minute and you know but those little moments all kind of add up and you go oh my gosh this is so Crazy that this is all happening. How is that? I was looking before you arrived at all the people you've interviewed going back more than a decade, and it's just everybody. It's like...

Floyd Mayweather to you insert the name of the person who's at the top of an industry you've sat with them they've been on your show I was thinking like how has that altered your perception of not just what fame is but Like what life is about? Because you've met the best of the best, the top of the top, the richest of the rich, the most famous of the famous. I'm interested, you know, in people, whoever it may be, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or, you know.

Angelina Jolie or something you know you're talking to them just like talk to me about this thing or what I don't know it's like uh also with my show I gotta jump right in I have probably yeah 10 minutes interview you know which is you got to get in there fast and you're like i gotta make them comfortable and know that i'm not gonna make them look bad i just want to talk to them and go like hey blah blah or i'll make a thing or i'll just say some

joke or i don't know what i'll do and really and then they'll be themselves and then you go now it's flowing and you go yeah yeah yeah and then you can get into the movie talk and you know you know and sell the product or whatever you know which is whatever but it's that first kind of five to seven minutes where you get in there and then you start playing with him and you start like if you can get a laugh

out of Floyd Mayweather or something. It's cool. How do you make them feel comfortable? Is this, you must have something that you have learned about what it is that makes someone feel comfortable. I don't know. I don't have an exact recipe.

I will tell you that I go in before the show to their dress room and say hello before the show. Okay. Just to say hi. How's it going? Then I'll just talk to them. Sometimes I talk to them longer than the interview because we'll get talking about something or life. some bit or you know you know their parents or something you know just get into real life talk and by the time they come out they feel like we've already talked so it's less pressure i think also after

16 years of talking to, I've seen everyone at their highest. I've seen everyone at their lowest. I've seen people date people they shouldn't date. I've seen people get married and have babies. And just really fun to watch. And it's fun to go back. And now, even if I see these people once a year, twice a year, I feel like I know them a little bit. And you're like, oh, yeah. Floyd, good to see you. What's up?

or mick you know you know how's it going how's you know it has your kids you know we can just talk and we're caught up and you're like oh yeah and it kind of feels like maybe it doesn't to them But to me, it feels like I just saw them yesterday and that we're, you know, even though it's probably I haven't seen them in a year, it feels like I just saw you. You go, oh, yeah. How do you stop it from getting old?

And I say this because I am obviously, I've been doing this podcast now really for about four years. That's really, I consider the starting point when we started on YouTube. And I wonder what I've got to do to make sure that I never get bored.

of doing this i don't think he ever will there's just so many interesting people yeah there's so many people in this world and it's it it doesn't end i mean four years i'm trying to think of where that was that was around at the end of late night for me i mean you're just You're doing all the things. You're just expanding. But you're working hard. I mean, you're trying. I think just keep trying. If you stop trying, you get boring tomorrow. But here you are in New York.

10 cameras. I mean, you're not in London. You're not in your kitchen. This is fake. Don't break the illusion. This is fake. This wall's... Not real. There's a light here. This is all a fake thing. This is how you don't make it old. You have to work. Nothing here is real. This is all a studio. But that's how you make it not get old. But this is, I think how you make it exciting is you got to put the work in. Don't get tired. You got to show up and you always got to show up. You got to be there.

And you've got to be there for your audience. And you do that. You show up. You do all the stuff. I mean, you have to. And that's, like you said, it's kind of a seven days a week thing. It's every day you go, what can I do? What can I do? What can I do? It just becomes part of your life. It's brushing your teeth. It's like, oh, yeah, I guess brushing your teeth. Someone at one point told me I had to do that. But now I do it every day, so I don't think about it.

I brush him three times, four times a day now. How do you keep yourself challenged? Is there something that you're doing to push yourself? Because, you know, we expand around the world. We go to different places.

have increasingly more interesting, different guests and challenge ourselves in that way. But when I just looked at your show, I was like, he started with the biggest in the world. I know. And you started in the biggest city in the world. Start putting more pressure on yourself for any little challenges or trying something. And you go like...

I've always wanted to put out a Christmas album, you know, and just come out and write original songs, you know? Trying to write songs is hard enough. Trying to write 20 original Christmas songs? It's insane. What hasn't been said? I have an idea for a kid's book that I think could be funny. Yeah, Dada was the first one that was a big deal. It's really the same word on every page. It's just getting your kid to say Dada.

I thought that no one's done this. So I go, basically, if you get to the end of the book, it's you saying the word dada so many times that I think your baby has to eventually just go dada. So it'll work. But then you released mama. I had to because my wife and all my female fans were like, really? You have two daughters and you're not going to write Mama? Because this is the real truth. Everything is Mama. So that's kind of the same book except...

I changed it to you want the kids to say dada and they just keep saying mama. I have found some wonderful photos of your childhood. which I adored. Oh, my gosh. These photos. You probably recognize quite a few of them. Did I post these? Where would you find these? I went through your house. Oh, my God. This is my Catholic teacher, kindergarten teacher.

That's Mrs. Fulling. That's Frank Gentile we talked about earlier. Yeah. My friend Steve Tebowt. These are my dorm room friends. I would do stand-up with Frank, and Steve was kind of the artist in the group. Is that Gloria underneath? Yeah. Gloria. Yeah, that's my mom. That's my mom in our kitchen where we spent many a time. We partied many times in that kitchen.

In November 2017, when she passed away, you said, as a tribute on The Tonight Show, which I watched, the best audience, referring to your mother that she was the best audience, she was the one I was always trying to make laugh. Mum, I'll never stop trying to make you laugh. And I heard you talk about squeezing her hand three times when you were younger and her squeezing yours back.

In a fraction of public attention I've experienced, one of the things that acts as an insulator to all of that for me is knowing that I have a home to return to. And home for me isn't a place, it's people. You know?

And that's the thing that makes all of the noise feel fake and like it's not real. And that there is something real. And so when I was thinking about all of that and... you losing her and her being the audience, her being home for you, I have to understand, like, how that changed you. You know, it's the toughest thing that I had to go through, I think. You know that it's going to come eventually, but it's just, it was just so sad because it just chews so much joy in my life.

I just miss her, you know. But you don't stop thinking about the people, you know. And you think about all these things and you look at all these other photos and you go, yeah. She probably gave me the microphone. My mom was probably here giving me the microphone. When you think about people dying, especially when it happens for the first week.

You go, I'm going to forget about them. And I can't. And you go, it's so sad. And then the truth is, it's just you don't. You don't forget about them, ever. They will never. They're in your life. You think about them. In the weirdest moments. And you'll hear a song, and I'll hear like Duran Duran or something. I don't even know if my mom liked Duran Duran, but something reminded me of me and my mom listening. I think of my mom. Like, oh, my God. I can't believe I'm listening to it.

Hungry Like the Wolf or Rio. And I'm thinking about my mom and getting sad. But you do. You have those moments. But it's more happier moments. And you don't get that emotional. I can just start crying because I just miss her. But I think of the best times and, you know, I think I wouldn't be who I am without her, you know?

When you say that you miss her, you've said that a few times. What precisely is it that you miss? She had a great sense of humor and she's always, you know, I think there's so many things. talking about probably talking about myself a lot and go like did you see the thing i did or the thing or i want her to bring it up like that thing you did was great and then it makes you feel good so i kind of missed it

Positive reinforcement, the feedback, positive feedback of something that I did that I kind of miss. And her, you know, complaining about something or talking about something she doesn't like. I feel like that would kind of give me material. And I miss, like... you know, calling on my birthdays and, you know, she's so much love. She just loved me so much. I do worry about, I worry about this because I think sometimes we don't realize.

the importance of certain relationships until we lose them and my parents are getting older and i think i have some kind of like subconscious existential fear that there will be words unsaid or i will i will learn the hard way that there's things I should have said, you know? Yeah, yeah. You kind of, yeah. I think I said everything. I think I said everything. It sounds like you spoke to her a lot. I did. I said everything. She knew that I loved her.

You know, it just, it kind of happened fast, which I kind of hope, I think that was a good thing. I hope it doesn't happen slow for you because I don't know if I could take that. This happened really quickly. And so I was like, whew. Are you able to grieve? Were you able to grieve? Yes, I went for it. My wife is really helpful with that. She was like, go for it. Just cry and just grieve because...

eventually you actually just have to stop crying. There's no way you can keep crying. There's no way. But you feel like there's a hole in your heart and a hole in your lungs. You feel it unhealthy, and you feel like you have to go to the hospital, that you're going to die. You know, you just have to go through that and you go, and then you just get it out of your system. And then, you know, as time goes on, you just start to be able to laugh at the things, kind of happy memories.

You know, and sad she's not here anymore, but glad for what she gave me. All the memories, I mean, way outweighs the sad thing. I just... wish he was around is the only thing if you harp on that then it's too depressing did it change your perspective on your own work because it's funny i i remember thinking about my old business when it was like it was my entire life i was thinking

If I lost this person in my life now, I don't know if my business would mean the same to me because in part I'm doing this for them. Yeah. Yes. You still do it for them. In a weird way, I still do this for my mom. I think of her when I do things. I go, she would be psyched. She would be proud. That would make her laugh. I still think of her for most things I do.

She would love that. That would make her laugh. That would make her proud. She'd be like, oh, that's funny. Or that's good that you did that. Her loss, you turning 50? Yeah. Putting all these pieces together, it seems like this might have inspired your increased concern and, I guess, drive for longevity and health.

Because we talked just before we started recording and I asked you what's sort of front of mind for you at the moment. And one of the things you mentioned was longevity and health. Yeah. When did that... Yeah. Maybe around, I mean, I'm 50 right now, but I think, you know, I think about my parents, they were never healthy. You know, they used to drink a lot. At the time, they smoked, you know, when everyone smoked.

I think there's a picture of my mom pregnant with me, drinking and smoking, which is fantastic. I mean, gosh, terrible. But, man, I turned out okay, right? Yeah. Okay, did we listen to this back? Yeah, maybe it didn't turn out. Guys, maybe this is a lesson. But yeah, I think about being around for my kids and trying to be alive. kind of financially stable for my kids, too, because I don't think my parents thought about any of that stuff. They just go, no, just have...

It was a lot of fun and a lot of support. That was a lot of the thing. But they didn't really work out. I think we bought a treadmill.

twice you know different times just tried to make it something that we would all do and no one ever did it so what does that actually mean for you in terms of your longevity and health journey does it mean that you're you're going to the gym you're thinking about what you're eating yeah i'm definitely eating better i'm i'm work out when i can you know i walk every day um i love walking um but yeah i try to uh you know i don't drink as much as i used to and you know

I get checkups. Not that I'm unhealthy, but I think, you know, I just want to be around for a long time. I don't even know how long I want to live, to be honest. I don't want to be that old that I'm older than everyone in my family. I mean, I want to have people my age. I don't want to be 130 and no one else is like, dude, that guy won't die. I mean, eventually it should happen. I just want to be...

I want it to all happen kind of in the right way. And then eventually as you get, you go on and I'll pass away. But I want to be able to be enjoying everything now. For anybody that likes matcha, for anybody that likes lattes.

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even 40 for 40% off your first order. Make sure you keep what I'm about to say to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to come even deeper into the diary of a CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is a brand new private community that I'm launching to the world. We have so many incredible things that happen that you are never shown. We have the briefs that are on my iPad when I'm recording the conversation. We have clips we've never released. We have behind the scenes conversations.

with the guests and also the episodes that we've never... ever released and so much more in the circle you'll have direct access to me you can tell us what you want this show to be who you want us to interview and the types of conversations you would love us to have but remember for now we're only inviting the first

10,000 people that join before it closes. So if you want to join our private closed community, head to the link in the description below or go to doaccircle.com. I will speak to you there. Is there a next chapter in your mind that you're looking at already? Are you thinking about life beyond TV? Media's changing so much. I mean, you were...

one of the sort of real pioneers that rode the shift towards the internet and digital, and you've got more bloody followers on YouTube and Twitter and Instagram than anybody. I think you've got like 100 million followers or something crazy. But... Are you thinking about the next wave of Jimmy? Not really. I feel like this is a good gig for that type of aging.

I think the older you get, the kind of the better the talk show gets. Like, you know, Johnny Carson did it for 30 years, I want to say. And, you know. I think I can do it as long as there's an audience. And I feel like there is always going to be an audience. I feel like I know everyone's like TV is dying. You know, the ratings are dying, but I don't think it is. I think TV is just as powerful as it ever was. I think they're making some of the best entertainment, the best shows.

are on television if you call it something else if you call it netflix or if you call it you know a live podcast whatever it is you're still watching you need entertainment and thank god for entertainment because you just find yourself when you're When you're needing some outlet or creative or something, or even a break, whatever you want to call it, meditation, television's there for you. You can turn on television and watch a movie, watch a show.

And you're like, ah, this is great. For an hour of my life, I don't have to think about my problems. I'm thinking about their problems. Or I'm watching a reality show. Whatever show it is you're watching. But your brain's moving. It's not like your brain's shut off. You're listening to this podcast. You're not just zoning out, going, you're actually thinking while you're listening to this. And this is changing the way you think. You may not agree that I think...

You might think, oh, television's over. But that's interesting. Still, your brain's moving. And this is fun for people to listen to. And this is, I think, entertainment is always going to be there. It has to be around. And I think it's just in...

it's moving this way and that way but i still feel like eventually there's a screen in your house or wherever you're living that you're going to want to see things on you know whether it's going to be through your eyeglasses or if it's going to be through you know, contact lenses or your phone or whatever it is, you know, I don't think it's going to be the Apple goggles, but they have to try. Outside of TV, you're very busy. I was reading through your...

business portfolio and it's extremely extensive you founded a production company oh yeah producing several shows series films you made a comedy a series of comedy albums Yeah, the last one was called Holiday Seasoning, which it's a Christmas album, but I wanted to create like a new verb. Like, hey, we're all holiday seasoning. Like, are you holiday seasoning? I'm celebrating Hanukkah. I'm celebrating Kwanzaa. We're all holiday seasoning. It didn't take off, but...

You know what? Maybe in the future, maybe, you know, in 2050, people will all be saying, hey, are you holiday seasoning? You know, yeah, we're all, I don't know. I don't know if I created what I wanted to about that one. But you've got the ice cream, the Tonight Dough. Tonight Dough ice cream. We've raised a lot of money for Serious Fun, which is a great charity.

It's a great ice cream, by the way, but it actually goes to a great cause, so it's a win-win. Beautiful. I was reading about it before. It's really cool, yeah. And outside of that, there's lots of other things from a ride at the Universal Studios to Spinney's to... Yeah, we got our own roller coaster, yeah. Crazy. Gobstompers, skate shoes. Yes, gobstompers were a sneaker that we came up with that the more you wear them, the more the leather wears down and they become different colors.

So eventually every pair of shoes become unique to that person. There's no two pairs of the same shoe. The through line here, Jimmy, is about making people happy. From rides to ice cream to the creativity and the fun of the products that you've made. That appears to be the through line. I like that. Yeah. But that's the through line of your life in many respects.

really relentless attempt to please others and to make people smile and to make them happy. Yeah, I do. I like that. I like making people happy. It makes me happy. And now you've got two beautiful children. It's the greatest thing. You're a dad. It's the greatest thing. I'm a dad. Can you believe that? This guy would be... This guy would be a dad. This guy would be a dad. This is silliest. And I...

I think I'm a good dad. They're the best kids. I love them so much. They're so fun. They're funny. They make jokes. They're interesting. They're interested. How did that shift the meaning of life for you, becoming a father? because I'm in the process of hopefully having children at some point. I'm trying. I'll tell you one thing that surprised me. I don't want to tell you about your own kids because no spoilers.

You're just going to figure it all out. And when they get to a certain age, we'll talk. And you'll be like, dude. And they go, yeah, of course. I don't want to ruin it for you. It's great. It's a lot. It's great.

But the one thing I didn't think I would happen to me is I like other kids more. I actually appreciate other kids. And they go, hey, are you not sharing with it? That kid's got no friends. Go talk to that kid. Because you go. Could happen to me, my kid. So you start thinking about other kids. Hey, no, no, no, be nice to him. Or he's, you know, it's like, and then the screaming baby in the restaurant that once, when you were younger, you'd go like, will you shut that baby up? Now you go like.

Dude, give me the kid. I'll take the kid for a while. I will shut this baby. I understand what it's like to get out and be a parent and you don't want the kid to cry. And I understand, I get all that now. And you go, oh, I'm much more patient with that. What advice would you give your two daughters for life? A life well lived. They said, Dad, listen, how do we live a good life? Be nice to people. Give when you can. Make people smile. What if they say, Dad, I want to know how to be successful?

then go do what you want to do. I think that will make you successful. Do what you want to do. If you do what you want to do, you'll be successful.

How are you misunderstood? Because we're all misunderstood in some way. You know, maybe someone that laughs at everything. I don't really laugh at everything. I do have a good time, but I don't laugh at everything. I think one way I'm misunderstood is maybe people don't think that I know what I'm doing or that I, you know.

I'm just living through life like I don't know what's going on, but I do know what's going on. And I do care. And I put a lot of work into what I do. And I really put a lot of thought and care into things that I...

Put out. And what does your gravestone say, Jimmy? If you could write it yourself. I would say... He had a good time. That's not bad. I like that. Jimmy, thank you for doing what you do. It's so unbelievably apparent to me as someone that's just spent a little bit of time for you that...

In your heart, you are an incredibly pure, well-intentioned, happy, radiant person who has a really authentic desire to spread that to other people and in fact gains a tremendous amount of energy and happiness from making people like me and everyone that you met in my team behind the scenes happy and we need more people like that in the world especially in times like these

Where there's so much division and the internet is an absolute war zone. It feels like everybody's frankly losing, if I'm being honest, because everybody's just... firing shots at each other on both sides of the aisle but just generally just all sides of life so it's wonderful to have people in the world and safe spaces and fun places that maintain a bubble of happiness and joy and humor and you're one of those

incredible spaces on the internet but just generally in life as well so thank you it's such an honour to have spent time with you and you're someone that I've looked up to forever you know you've been on screen for most of my adult life and I've

before I was interviewing people and I had the privilege of doing this. So you're one of my idols as well. And so thank you for that as well. It's been a tremendous honor. And I feel somewhat, it's incredible that I'm like in New York and I'm sat across from you. Really something special. Keep doing what you're doing. You're great. You're fantastic. I had the greatest time. It was so fun. I want to say thank you to every camera. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

We have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for. And we'll ask you to do the same. The question left for you is an interesting one. It was, how would your view of yourself change? And how would your behaviour change if you learned beyond doubt that reality is not objective but exists only? In what you do and your actions. God, the edibles kicked in whoever wrote that one. It's a deep one. Jesus. I wouldn't be shocked.

I wouldn't be shocked. I go, wow. I probably would take credit for it. I'd probably say, I knew that. And then you go, wait, what? You knew that? And you go, yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if all of this was just my... based on what I'm doing, it's fascinating. If that's the real truth, how fascinating, what a great experiment this was. And I hope... I hope I passed. Again, I'm a people pleaser. Whoever is playing this game, I hope they're enjoying the game they're playing.

I sometimes think it's a simulation. We think we've banned that as a conversation. And someone's playing us. Yeah, they're just messing around. It would make sense. But don't you think whoever's playing us is enjoying themselves? We're good characters. Maybe they like...

started the game and they've like wandered off and they'll oh no it's like Toy Story they don't play us anymore yeah they just like they're off doing some things and they're like forgot and we're like fucking around yeah and then they go oh I didn't play that in so long yeah Jimmy Fallon game? No, I don't play that game anymore. Yeah. No, I had him create a business. But they forgot to turn it off. Oh my gosh. But yeah, well, hopefully.

You don't have to play them anymore. I'm going to get to the next level. You will. Jimmy, thank you. You're the best. This is so fun. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me in your kitchen. Oh my God. Really, I'd like to be done with the plans. This has always blown my mind a little bit.

53% of you that listen to this show regularly haven't yet subscribed to this show. So could I ask you for a favour? If you like the show and you like what we do here and you want to support us, the free, simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the subscribe button. And my commitment to you is if you do that...

that I'll do everything in my power, me and my team, to make sure that this show is better for you every single week. We'll listen to your feedback, we'll find the guests that you want me to speak to, and we'll continue to do what we do. Thank you so much.