Ivan Toney: I’m Finally Ready To Speak! The Truth About His Football Ban And His Future Team!

In May 26th you did a famous tweet. I'll speak soon with no filter. You ready to speak? 100% I'm a Tony! I'm a Tony! I've been to Tony handed an 8 to my fan. Size Mcnews for the Premier League. Football is brutal. That 15 being rejected at Leicester, 18 I got to all. A squad number took the pictures out of nowhere. The club said, and I look into signing you no more. You have scoliosis in your back. It hasn't affected your game. Tony! I'm a Tony!

I don't feel like it has hard work to beat talent when talent is a work hard. I'm built different. I've been Tony has won his first England Coulop. You missed out on the final World Cup squad. Junior wine. The allegations, somebody's out to get me to stop me from playing for England. I've been Tony has been suspended for eight months with reaching etting rules. I read the whole FA report. You acknowledge and you lied in that meeting with the FA. I didn't lie, I just couldn't really remember.

You admit to 232 breaches. I didn't do it, but I took responsibility. So the whole process could pick it up. The bad idea to struggle with is that using someone else to do the best, you said to me, I can't have that one in my name. Betts feel teem to lose. It's a bigger story. What impact was it having on your life? With me, I never showed nothing. I'm not sure how much it has been. I've been tanned. I've just, I'm in a room, not on my own. I'm looking into the finair and just, hey, huh.

When I'm back, I keep talking my feet. I'm going to get back to football. The club's going to come knocking. And let's go to, if I was to move, it would be... Quick one before this episode starts. About 75% of people that listen to this podcast on audio platforms, Spotify and Apple, haven't yet hit the follow button. If I could ask a favour from you, if you've ever enjoyed this podcast, please could you just go and hit that follow button on your app?

It helps the show more than I could possibly say, and the bigger the show gets, the better the guest gets. Yeah, thank you and enjoy this conversation. I always believe that to understand a person, you have to understand their earliest years. I kind of see our earliest years as the like, oven that we're formed in. So far, if you take me back to your earliest years, what do I need to know about you to understand the man you are today?

What were the characteristics of that environment that shaped you? I just out the front of what I live is like, on the front is a park, on like, the older guys would just be out the front playing, and there's me at like, seven, eight trying to get involved, and these guys are like, 15, 16. And they were playing rough. No matter if you're eight, nine, ten trying to play with us, play with them, they're gonna be rough.

So that kind of helped me into today's game, however I'm now, progress a lot quicker, and like, even when I was like 16 breaking through it in the fountain, I kind of had that bashing around at a young age for the older guys. So being 16, getting bashed around by men, let's say, I was kind of like, you stood. What about hard work? What was your, were you a hard working man at that age? In terms of running and like, I never liked running. How is it always the lazy one at the back of the group?

Because I knew when it's time to get on the pitch, our school girls. But like, we will know hard work beats talent when talent is a work hard. So it's like, kind of like, if you've got the talent, and you can work on a hard work and put them both together, then you can be self the best chance of becoming top athlete. And you put the work in to improve that part of your game and attitude?

Yeah, I had to, because there was, when I was training, like when I was at Leicester, I got taught I wasn't getting scholarship there. So then I went to, I didn't really want to play football as much, because being rejected at Leicester, it's kind of like, okay, let me just chill for now, but then my parents just like, go to No Fountain, because that was a game that we played No Fountain when I was at Leicester. And then, I think No Fountain said, if anybody gets released from them, let us know.

I think Leicester must have put me in touch with No Fountain, and I was kind of like, I'm really not around about going, but then I ended up going and it was kind of like, everybody's playing for a scholarship. And then it was like, on the last day, everybody already knows they're getting a scholarship, and I was the only one that wasn't told. So everybody's in the dressing room talking, ah, you've got a scholarship, scholarship. And I'm there still on trial thinking, when am I getting told?

And it wasn't until the next morning, on the meet, and like the first meet and the scholarship players joined up, I got a phone call and said, it's got a scholarship, it's like, it's come down, and I think that point was kind of like, okay, I got a scholarship, this is my chance now. But there was a moment there, where you were, because of the rejection from Leicester, you were considering doing something else with your life. Yeah, I feel like nobody likes rejection.

Like being rejected is not the best feeling. And it being like, basically you're not good enough to be playing football. How I saw it, you're not good enough to be playing football. Even though it was just, I'm not good enough for Leicester, I might be good enough somewhere else. Somebody else might value what my quality is, a lot more than Leicester did. How to see that in the moment there in it? Yeah, it's very hard, it's very hard. How old 16? It was like 15. Yeah.

It's kind of like, you don't want that rejection again. It's like a kind of fear of getting that again. Like I said, when I got the scholarship, it wasn't happening again. Because your journey through football just generally has been a real climb. You know, it's been a real, real climb. And also I reflect on the fact that most so many kids at that age 16 years old, they get a rejection and they don't bounce back from it.

And if they don't make it to the very top, they'll often take that badly and pursue a different career path. But you rejected at 16, you persevered, you got into the team at Northampton, you made a good impression there. And then eventually you end up at Newcastle at what 19? 18. 18 years old. How was that experience? It was crazy. The first time away from home, such a young age 18 is like, and as well, you fought you as a man from League 2. You go into a Premier League team.

And I would never in the Northampton changing feel like I was a man. There was talks going on, but nothing's done until it's done. So it was kind of like, actually before I was going to Newcastle, I was supposed to go to Wolves. But I've got there, I've got to Wolves. I've met everybody when in the changing rooms, got my number on, took the pictures, they come to the contract side.

And then I think there was a bit of talk with my agent and the club on certain things and then it related back to us. It was all just confused me, my family. You know what was going on, and then I don't know where the club come out and said, we're not looking to sign you no more. Due to you having scoliosis in your back.

So it was just so confused from getting a squad number, meeting all the players, meeting all the staff, and then for them to come out and say, your scoliosis in your back, we're not looking to sign you. It's kind of like, is that really the reason? Is there more behind it? But then, from going, having to go back, to Northampton, like I've said my goodbyes at Northampton. And on social media, I'm going to sign up at Wolves. Then the next day I'm back in Northampton and training with the boys.

Everybody's like, what's happening? And then they're just stepping down and they're just saying, listen, don't dwell on that. I'm sure other things will come into place and I think a few weeks later, the new class we interested in. I went there. Scoliosis in your back. What is scoliosis and where they are where that you had scoliosis?

I feel like there was a way because before we set up to see a specialist because they, I feel like they wanted to know what was going on, how bad it was because I think some scoliosis stopped you from walking at a certain age and just gets worse and worse. But I feel like, if you didn't see a specialist, you'd be lucky to be walking at 28 still. Really? Yeah. And then I was just, it doesn't really register. You think at the time at 18, I'm thinking, well, I'm fine now. I'm enjoying football now.

So it's not really registered, but being 27, because it's 28, you kind of think, well, I'm strong, fit and healthy. It's true continuously. What is scoliosis? Where your back's not straight. It's like, got a slight bend. Hasn't affected your game. I don't feel like it has. Yeah, going back to moving to Newcastle, it's like going from league two to Premier League. It's crazy. Like, it seems I went there. I've not found you, you get recognised, but it's not crazy.

And then going to their Newcastle, I mean, the hotel, everybody's recognising me straight away. It's like a crowd outside the hotel waiting to see me. And it's kind of like at 18, this is all happening so fast. You're away from home as well? Away from home. A long way as all. What are you feeling when Newcastle make that phone call and they say they're interested in you and then you move there? What does it feel like as an 18-year-old? Because I can only imagine.

I was always playing football and as younger, I was always hoping a little bit to be at footballer. I knew I wasn't good enough. I thought I'd forgotten you at 16. Yeah, it is crazy. It's so exciting. You want to tell everybody you want to say, I'm going here tomorrow. Yeah, I'm going here. But with me, nothing's done to this done. So you're after the rules of stuff. That was on the back of my mind so I'm thinking, right? It's way into this all sorted then you can tell everyone.

When I'm so excited, I just want to tell this person, that person, this is something. So it was crazy. My head was all over the place and thinking, I'm actually going to the Premier League. I've made it. I'm here. But little did I know is, I thought I've made it. What happened? I feel like when you take that step, you get notice more. You get more money. And you just do silly things. Like you get mix in the wrong crowd going out here and there, buying things you wouldn't normally buy.

Just a bit naive. And so as well, being away from my family, although they kept telling me, don't be doing nothing silly. Look, I'll show you money, this and that. You kind of think, okay, but they're not here to control what I've got hold of right now. I can spend it on this. I can spend it on that. Like you just do things like I said, the things you never normally do. Like we get in personal shoppers to come to the house and do something kind of go to the shop and buy yourself.

So we want to do that. So it's like these kind of things. But yeah, I think it. Think come at me fast. I wouldn't say that. I'd say just like a surprise kind of thing. Like I said, I thought I'd made it. So whatever happens, I'm fine. I mean, primarily. What was the advice that you needed at that point that you didn't get? Like if you could go back now and have a chat with Ivan and say, listen, pro, you arrive at Newcastle that day and you get a chance just to say a couple of things to him.

What'd you say? I'll sit down and have a long chat with him. I think I'd just say like this is where the hard work starts. It's not finished. You can't pull it on cruise control. You got to go that extra gear. Like yeah, I might have a Premier League club, but I haven't played yet. I'm not got continuous games under my belt to be saying, okay, my Premier League player now. So it's like. I'd say to a young guy, I even know anybody that's in that situation going doing such a big jump.

To say that's when the hard work starts. Were you in cruise control? Do you think? Yeah. If I even was moving, probably put an arm brake on. Yeah, I just thought I'm Premier League now. And as well, you see all the big boys like Litchie training there. It's like, yeah, I'm here now. And you played two games, but they learned you out? Yeah, I couldn't have to bench twice against United and Chelsea. And then you went on quite a long loan spell.

Barnsley, Shrews, Bri Wiggins, Gunn, thought when you find out you're getting loaned out, how do you receive that as a player? I've always wondered this when you're a young player in the club, you're in the Premier League, because I think there's a lot about Manchester United as a big fan. We always loan out our young glads. And I wonder how that's positioned to you as a player and how you receive it. It's not the best feeling. The time is kind of like, what do you know? I'm here.

Now you want to send me away. Yeah. You got the personal shopper coming over. Exactly. Yeah. So I need to sort some things out to me. Coming in Shrews, Bri? Yeah. I don't think we've traveled that far. But now, yeah, I feel like it's like that age you don't really think what you're going to know before. I mean, first team experience is probably the best of that age as well. And like knowing like, because I feel like I just spread to a European football school.

Like, take a tackle, pretty football. And go into the equal. And like I said, on loan, you're going to get bashed around. So you need to be ready for that physical battle. And I feel like going online definitely helped me looking back now. It helped me a lot. But at the time I was thinking, I don't need to go online. I'm ready to be. Playing in Premier League. I feel like from young, I've always had that.

That my dad always told me, no matter where you are, if you have that mentality that you're Premier League player, but at the moment you're just on league one, that's fine. But if you don't have that mentality that I'm a Premier League player, so I don't need to try here, then. It's not going to work out. So this is not where you are. If you have the mentality, I should be playing in the Premier League. But right now, I'm playing here. That's fine.

And I feel like you go a long way to the where I am now. I'm Premier League player and that bit of advice that my dad gave me was very key. When you went off on loan, they say, okay, you're leaving Newcastle now. Does that take you out of cruise control and into like where I've got something to prove again? It should. It should have. But it didn't really because I always believed that no matter what happened where I went, I'm going back to Newcastle.

So no matter if I played, didn't play at all or played rubbish, I'm going back to Newcastle. But to the Premier League, but not knowing the effects that could have, or it did have in the end. Even though I think all the clubs I went to, but I won. I left to go school. But it was like, I could have looking back, I feel like I could have went that extra step further. You had a good spell as well. It's gunpup united. Six goals and 15 appearances.

Showed a huge promise while you're on your loan spells as a prolific goalscorer. And then it's 22 years old, you transferred to Peter Breenited after failing to secure a regular place at Newcastle. Now that, that must have been an interesting moment because that's kind of like another knockback in it. And then it's like the last time you've made it to the Premier League, and now you've got to take a step down. Yeah, it was a massive knockback.

It was a knockback, but it was kind of like, maybe a knockback I needed at the time. Because I remember sitting down with my dad and my agent at the time and saying, listen. Like, me and my dad are a brutal. Wherever we work, we want the honest truth. No matter if they say, we don't want him, he's not good enough for us. I'd rather my agent tell me that. But how the relationship was at the agent with my agent at the time. It kind of shook and cut things.

So me and my dad kind of had to get out of him. What did the club say? Just tell us, be honest. And his words were, the club don't think you're good enough already at the time. So it was kind of like, in my head, it was like, I can't find a problem. It's time for me to go elsewhere. Then we grew up and restart. It wasn't like I was too old. It was just a knockback and setback. Like I said, at the time, probably needed to kickstart my journey again. Do you think you cost all right and say that?

Possibly. Like, don't get me wrong. You go also a great club. They had some great players and doing very well at the moment. But I feel like I didn't really have a chance in the first team to prove if I was good enough. I feel personally, anyway. I know what to do for the time was a new cast was fighting to stay up in the Premier League. And Raffa Bigny is first coming in. It was kind of understandable. You wanted these players to try and keep them up.

But when it had experienced and stuff more than to be given younger players a chance. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I feel like. I mean, you can't really put so much responsibility on youth players or young players. Keep you up in the Premier League. It's such a big ask. But I feel like maybe the following season, it was kind of like, could he get a sniff? And I think he kind of is his own players and then his own thing, which is that's football.

So if you go to Peterborough, you're closer to your family at this point? Yeah, which helps. Which helps, sir. My mum is way out, so I leave my mum around close. And did it change your attitude moving to Peterborough, unlike this whole cruise control thing? Yeah, it did. And especially when I went to first, went to Peterborough, I wasn't playing at the first. I'd say 10 games. The striker's out in front of me, who was scoring every game, assisting, playing well.

But the manager at the time, Steve Evans, was just saying, the worry your chance will come. And when your chance comes, it's up to you to take it. And your chance came? Yeah, I don't know. I took it. Ah, yeah, I do have a sense. You scored 24 goals in 32 league one games at Peterborough. Which is insane.

Yeah, I feel like, yeah, like, well, like the competitions all over the field, but especially as a striker, you need to, your job to score goals, and especially when the other two are scoring goals. If you get at one sniff and you don't score, you're back out again, and it gives him another opportunity. The director of football at Peterborough said, you are an incredibly hard worker. He also said, you were their best defender because you headed away nine out of ten corners.

I feel like, yeah, the game's a kind of a magnum, I had that just bringing the ball towards you. But yeah, now I think the hard work as well, like when I'm loved by a manager, I feel like, and a club. I feel like it's in me to want to give back, want to do a lot of things for like run for a brick wall for the manager. That's one in me in this position. Did they become like proxy father figures to you in that regard? Because you're clearly a man that's close to your father.

Did they kind of, you know what I'm saying? Is that, is it a similar relationship, like a, where you want to do them proud? Yeah, 100%. And especially when I signed, like, with, when I first signed a piece where we see Bevons, like, the first time he was spoke to me, he was just, he was like a friend, like a normal chap, even though you got the respect as a manager, but he was saying, listen, I want his coming score goals

and go, go, go, go to higher. Like the goal is your score for us, benefits you and us, because we're going to go higher, and you're going to go higher. So it's a win-win. And I think him putting an arm around me at that time, knowing I've come from a Premier League club, and saying it's not really not back. This is where you kick, kick, start your journey again. Having that, I think definitely helped me.

And didn't you have a red somewhere that you had a agreement with them, like a verbal agreement that if a bigger club came knocking, they wouldn't stand in your way, Peter Bra. That probably was a verbal agreement, but if anybody knows the feet of a, feet of a staff, and the owners, then they probably have different ideas. But I mean, yeah, I guess when I did go, that was the right time.

Every player thinks when there's a move on a card, you want to try and rush it through, and if things aren't right, they're not right for a reason. Like you can't rush good things, good things aren't rush. I think at the time there was a chance I could have went to somewhere. I tried to rush it through, and it was like, I worry. I really said there was office from other clubs. There was office from other clubs, yeah, but big clubs.

Big issue at the time. Yeah, championship clubs. Yeah, championship clubs, and he was saying, just be patient. You're going to get a better club, and I'm just there. Not kicking my, not throwing my toys out of frown, just be like, wow, this is a chance that moves out. Who used to know what can happen, blah, blah, and then I ended up staying and I went to Brentford, which was probably the best choice in the end.

In it around this time, I mean, just before then, 21 years old, you become a father for the first time. Yeah, I mean, that's as well. What helps me kick start my journey is, as well, because I feel like I've got people to provide for. I have expensive taste as well. So they say, if I choose my expensive taste or my family, so if I could school goals and help both, then it's perfect. I think that's what helped me pick things up and had to provide for people.

Does that focus you? Because I'm not a dad yet, but it's around the corner for me. I'm sure. Does that focus your priorities in a sense? Like, does it make, because I speak to my mates who have already had kids, and they almost describe that moment when their baby first comes, they kind of see the world differently, and they're like responsibilities differently and stuff. 100%, like you can't do the things you normally do. You have to think, baby first in the last weeks.

Did it make your game better? Yeah, yeah, 100%. Definitely. This is like, I want to make him proud. So when he's older, that's what that he's done this. He's doing this. So it's kind of like a pride thing, as well as wanting to do well for my family and have a better, better lifestyle for everybody, not just me and my people of the world. When did you find out that Brent that are interested? He was actually training at St. George's Park with Peterborough.

I know there was talks of going here there. I was kind of like, I'm going to know him just like, yeah, when it's, when it's something concrete, then let me know right now, I just want to focus on training hard. Because it's easy to be let astray when this club's interested in you. This club's interested yet. You hear loads of things, but then nothing's concrete. It's all well and good. He's looking at you. He's looking at you. But these times, I'm not a kid anymore.

When they want me and put a bid in, then we can start talking. Where's hearing they're interested? What does that mean? That doesn't mean nothing. Like, everybody can be interested, but nobody wants you. Yeah. So when Brent would come along and I was interested, I'd actually put a bid in. That's good. It's like, okay. I spoke to the manager. It kind of was straightforward and said, you're going to be coming to be the main man.

We want you to be starting every game and school goals and do your job then. If it takes us up, we're good to go to a higher club. So you get that call from Brentford. They put a bid in. You speak to the manager. Thomas Frank. Yes. And Thomas says, listen, you're going to be on number one. I think there's a no brainer. I think I did speak to over clubs. I went to arranges. I spoke with the manager there. I was just even drove out at the time. And Manchester United, did you speak to that?

Yeah, they said I wasn't good enough. No, I'm not. Yeah, no. I went to arranges. We spoke a bit. Then I said, I think there were two strikers at the time. And then I was looking to get another one in. So it would have been like four strikers. I think the formation they played, majority of the time, one striker at the top. So you would have been like the choice of something? Yeah, something like this. And then we went to Celtic. We spoke to Celtic.

And I think it was like the same there. I'm one of three strikers or something like this. And I think at the time when it was I was moving, I wanted to be like the main guy. Like I think the crucial thing for me is playing games. Even though I backed myself on competing with other strikers, but I want to be known that when I go in, first, first for the door on the main man up front and stepped to me to keep my position.

So that when I went to what one I spoke to the manager at Brentford, he pretty much said, good to main guy. And I don't see nobody taking your spot. So you make sure you produce producer goods and it feels really. You've worked a lot of clubs. You've played out a lot of different clubs. Brentford are special. They're really, really special because they are based on their resources. They're objectively over achieving in a really, really significant way.

What is it about Brentford from your experience that is make, what is that magic that they have? Hard work. Playing as simple. Hard work. Like we're not the best. Technically gifted team. We have some magicians in the team, but other than that, it's just hard work. I mean, and we fear nobody. We respect them. We don't fear them. So when we go to, let's say, I'm filled away or Chelsea or where all these kind of games,

we know they're probably on paper better than us. Got some big names and this and that, but if at the end of the day, the main thing that wins games is hard work and a little bit of quality, I guess putting them all in the back and in it. And I feel like throughout the club, everybody knows what the manager wants. You have to be willing to run for your team, plus your left, plus your right and the fans and everybody.

And everybody knows the responsibility they have on their shoulders when they step onto the pitch. So I think that's probably what's brought us to where and how well we're doing at the moment. And even like at the moment, the team playing without me are here and people say, oh, you're gonna be like, this now you're not playing this and that. And I'm thinking, no, they're not gonna struggle because they're the work card. And when you work card, you give yourself the best chance of winning again.

And I know deep down, Brent will be fine with all with army. You've played a lot of clubs right. So you can kind of compare and contrast. Is there anything else other than just that work ethic that you've noticed is just different at Brented? So you've got the super hard work. Is there anything else that they're approached or things with a strategy or the way that they... I feel like it's a given this as well. How everybody's like, everybody talks to everyone.

Now I've been at clubs where it's like a certain group sit there, certain groups sit there like everybody divided. It's like, it's not that at Brentford, everybody mixes with everybody. Now you've got people who have Spanish, Danish, which is my joy at the club at the moment. English and everything. And everybody just mixes together. So it's not like, oh, let me wear my friends. Where shall I sit down at lunch? You just get your lunch, sit down here. You talk with whoever. And the manager.

That comes from him. Like, he makes sure that's giving this and the humbleness. Like there's nobody at the club thinks they're better than nobody. Like even last season our school 20 goes. I wasn't the better nobody. I was the same. The person that doesn't really play too much. They're not less of a person than me. We're all the same. We're all in it together. So I feel like that comes from the manager and it's philosophy at the club and how he wants things to be run.

One of the things that you often think with managers and CEOs and stuff like this, they have their like core principles, which you just get bored of hearing. Because they say it over and over and over and over again. One of those things that he just repeats over and over and over again. To give in this. Yeah. Humble. Yeah. And attitude. And I guess he polices that pretty. Yeah. All the time. It's all over the club. It's all in the meetings. Which is probably why like I said, we're doing so well.

As a club. And as a whole whole unit. What's the what's the dressing room, the training ground dressing room culture like? I can ask this because I've spoken to so many players at United in particular. And especially in the Fergier is they always talk about the like the self policing culture in the dressing room. You know, like what's that like? Versus of the clubs. Yeah, it's like I said, it's good. There's other clubs I've been at is it's been good as well, but not how it is in Brentford.

I feel like Brentford is probably one of the best. Trustings are being in in terms of everybody knows that drill. Everybody knows the position of what is helping others. Like everybody's just like the respective somethings on the floor, tidy pick up, pull it in there. That I'm kind of things is key if you want to be achieving something big. I feel like with that in the change room as well as in the gym or in the dinner. Is it key and everybody's up for everybody? It was like one big family unit.

26 years old. You're named Brentford's player of the season. You scored 12 goals in the first Premier League season and then you scored 20 goals in your second Premier League season. Finishing third in the Golden Beat rankings behind Harland and Harry Kane. That's big. Yeah. It is big, it is big. But sometimes I don't really realise how big it is because sometimes I'm at home. Yeah, but I'm not first in my head if you're not first you lost.

Then like my family say, look who you'll be behind and look at the caliber of players that are playing in the Premier League and you're good more than these guys. I'm always thinking, yeah, what I could have scored more and you think it's more than Harland? What you got to remember is like 30 something. 36. I mean not more but I look back on chances that should have been a goal. And I feel like there probably is like 15 16 chances that I probably could have scored or should have scored.

So if I was as clinical as Harland was not to say I'll be in but I could be a lot higher than 20. England. England's football team. I think I saw a post on your Instagram a couple of weeks ago about that being a huge dream for you to play for England. Yeah, I think everybody wants to play England. Yeah, I remember just screaming like Gerrard's name and the lamppard's name like when the Mono Field just kicking and later when that opportunity was around and I was in talks of it.

You just didn't feel real from being five and from the fountain just playing out the front getting bashed around by the old a lot to actually having a chance to play for England was something I would never have jumped off. You missed out on the final World Cup squad. Lots of circulating rumours about why. Would you know why? I guess it comes down to allegations on the betting scandal. I feel like personally I feel like it was a bit of a questionable time when they decided to bring it all out.

And then when that's dealt with the situation come the end of the season is kind of like, how did you bring out then to and then punish me at the end of the season. So they brought it so you I guess you're saying that you suspect they brought it out at that time to prevent you going to play for England. I assume so I'm to make it a bigger story.

Personally anyway, I don't know if it's true that I have not to know what's behind the scenes but I feel like if you have somebody go into the World Cup that's supposed to be betting then it's kind of like a bigger story. What's the real I'm not very clueed up on this or how I think the FA the England team play under the FA. Yeah, and the FA also the sort of body that brought the charges against you.

So they so one might assume that they release the charges at that point because if they didn't then there might be some ramifications on the England team or the perceptions of England team or something. Yeah, I assume so. Like, like, I'm not too aware of all this stuff but I feel like it was a bit of a coincidence when they decided to bring it all out and then having to be dealt with the punishment at the end of the season. So far after it's kind of like.

I mean, you know, well, I feel like yes on band now, but the biggest punishment for me was missing out on playing at the World Cup personally. I felt more hurt and. What's the word kind of like. Yeah, I just felt I felt down around the time. But like somebody's out to get me at that time to stop me from playing for England. In my head, like that's just how I see it at the time is like they want to punish me for this missing out on England.

The World Cup like everybody's dream to be playing at the World Cup. And then further down the line, ban me as well. It's kind of like. A double hit. I feel. In the sense was like I said. If you're going to do if you're going to stop me from going to World Cup, do it there and then deal with it deal with all situation. Rather than doing that, miss out on the World Cup and then let me play the rest of the season and then ban him after the season.

It's it's just not enough in my head to be fair anyway. When you start I felt down about it. What does that mean in real terms? I was a fly on the wall in your life when that information came in. That was probably more. That was probably the lowest point. I was like with me, I never show nothing. I know it's a motion to tough. But I think that was probably the lowest point I felt. Like you'd asked me if I was I, you know, he's what is. But that it was what is his kind of like. Yeah, down.

It hurt. It did hurt. Do you cry? No, I don't feel like crying solves anything. Personally, that's my personal views. Everybody says to me, you need to show a motion and you can cry. It's okay. But I feel like I've only cried once when I see my nine cry. I'm losing my pap. I've seen her, her as much as she was. She killed me inside. I think it was kind of like I think cry, cry, but it was like tears of my eyes coming down. It was kind of like it was painful.

Do you express how you're feeling to anyone in your life at that point? To your partner, to your family, your mum, your dad? When you find out that you're not going to play for England and they sort of, you know, the groomers are out about this gambling situation. Do you tell anyone how you're actually feeling? Some know, but people that know me know my actions and how that leads to how I'm feeling. Like I'd be a lot more snappy about things.

Or I'll just be like, I can just be like there and someone be talking to me. And it's not like really registering. But my head's not really in the room kind of thing. And that people that know me know like something's up, something's wrong. What was the reality of the situation? What was going on inside your head? And how was it when you say down and you say that was the lowest point? How, what does that mean in real terms?

I wouldn't say depressed as such, but it was kind of like not far off that. If it was towards that direction, but not completely, because like still how I stay in my head is like next opportunity, next day, another day is another day to put things right and try and be as positive as I can. Have you ever had anxiety? Probably, but how I am, I don't let it get to me as much. Like I'd say the loan spells, one of my loan, I'm in a room on my own.

It's been times I've just literally sat there and about the TV on just sat there. And just like chilling and just looking to finair and just thinking about things. But I'll never, like I said, I'd never like let nobody know how I'm feeling, because how I'm as a person. I feel like it's it's aware of me, but I'm just always a smiley one. Always like I asked people at Brentford now on the journey, going, making sure everyone's fine.

I think that's my kind of way of beating my emotions. If I see this person happy, for me doing that, then it kind of brings me up to make me happy, kind of thing. Did you not speak to anyone like a professional about about this stuff? Because I always think when we bottle up our emotions, it's not like they go away. They're almost like they eat us up from inside and they come out in other ways like you were saying snappiness or whatever.

Surely there's someone around you that said you need to see someone. Yeah, that's yeah, there was. But as well with me being stubborn, it's kind of like, no, I'm fine. It's fine. I'll be right tomorrow. I'll be right later. I'll be right next week. I don't like how I can speak to anybody in my family, but my stubbornness just don't allow me to. I think a lot of men can relate to that. Yeah, 100%. I feel like I do need to get better at that personally.

In May 2026, you did a famous tweet. Do you know the tweet I'm talking about? Yeah. I'll speak soon with no filter. You ready to speak? What did that tweet mean? That would just speak on everything really. But I was even when I done that, it went crazy and then my family just said, listen, you don't need to talk. Just when you get on a pitch, that you feed you to talking. What's that damage is done? You can't talk and it's not going to help no situation.

If anything could not damage my reputation or my career, but just make people think not that I care what people think is just could put in a work start. Who do you think he is? That kind of thing. But it doesn't benefit no parties. What headspace were you when you tweeted that? Probably a reckless one. Really? Yeah. How are you feeling? Thinking. I don't care attitude. I'd say. Kind of a defense mechanism against pretty much. Yeah, against everybody. Like even like little things like.

For the whole situation, not like my friends, my friends, my friends, want to stick with better people. I chill with all the time, but it's even like one of those. I don't know if it's just me thinking sort of things, but it's like when I go to certain places, maybe some people don't want to be associated with me in certain way of. Obviously, because of media kind of thing and it's kind of like. Not killing that image, but it's kind of like between this guy. He's a match fixer.

It's match fixing football. And even like, I'm right at the time when there was allegations. I wanted to go into a restaurant and I was like, no, you can't. We're not taking you. The restaurant. A restaurant. I was like, do you mean? As I was, because the allegations, we're not allowing you in or something like this. I was actually so confused. I was thinking for starters, it's allegations. And secondly, your restaurant, how can you not let somebody in due to bad press?

That's what they call it, bad press. I was just baffled and even to like my car insurance. They wouldn't ensure me due to the whole scandal. I was just like, a car insurance. I don't want to be on their books because. Which was baffling. I read through the whole F.A. report. Many, many pages. I think it was like 25, 24 pages over here. Just to understand the case better, just so I made sure I didn't make any errors in my observations.

But there's no, I think there's actually a line in there where the commission say they didn't believe you were doing any match fixing. There's far from match fixing. Yeah. I wrote that down in my notes that they concluded that you hadn't been match fixing or anything like that in the report. So that allegation from whoever said that, the restaurant or whatever, doesn't seem to have a basis in the report at all. I'm sure there was certain articles on saying match fixing as well.

Which is probably the media for you making it a big talking point. When the FA first contacted you and they asked, they make a request for information, don't they? They want to know more information. This is dating back to 2022, I believe. When you get that first contact, how does that feel? Like your dad or your agent must have told you that the FA has been in touch. Well, they want to information from far backers 2015. So it was kind of like, I haven't got that.

As long as I haven't got that phone, that was how I had back then to give you information. But I wanted to cooperate how I can to let you investigate what you want to investigate. When I was, when I, the club actually pulled me into a room and they spoke to me and said, they're FA being in touch with you, match fixing, this and that. They want to speak to you. And I said, okay, this is Brentford. This is Brentford, yeah. I said, okay, no problem.

Then he said, he was like, have you done any bets? Was, was you been at Brentford and have you been betting on football? And I was like, no, I haven't, I haven't done no bets that I've fixed and fixed and football. But like, is that okay? Well, if I want to speak to you, don't delete nothing on your phone because there's a, some that they said they can get back old messages or whatever they said. So I said, no problem.

No problem, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not delete nothing, they can go through what they want to go through. And then they called you in front of you in May 2022. Yeah. And they ask you all these questions again about what you've been involved in with betting et cetera. Yeah. And they asked me starting things up and like, seven, eight years ago, I'm to the top of my head so much information from me at one time. It's kind of like, actually, can't remember. Can't remember.

And there's, I think it was in there for like what? Five hours. Five hours. Yeah. But at that time, you maintained to them that you're not better on football. Yeah. And I was, I wasn't aware what that was, what that was trying to get. You acknowledge later on that you, you, you basically lied in that meeting with the FA. I didn't lie.

I just couldn't really remember what, what they was asking for at the time I couldn't remember until they brought somethings in front of me and there was kind of like, okay, it's talking about our own and we, like I said, I cooperated with everything they wanted to do. And we kind of spoke on it and then I told them the truth about everything. One of the things people might find surprising is they asked for your mobile phones and stuff.

And then they like, image your mobile phones to check like all the messages you've sent to people going back a long time on these phones to find out everything you've been said. And also, as you said, they, they asked you not to delete any messages, which you didn't from, from what the commission said. But how does that feel when the FA asked for your mobile phone and they, you know, they're going to scan it for everything?

It didn't feel, yeah, it's just kind of like it's your privacy and they're like invading it. It's kind of like, I've got something pitched on there. I want them to see like these kind of things. So it's pretty much like you have to go with what they're saying. Otherwise, I feel like I think the you get a longer ban for not cooperating or something like this. So what, what can I do? You want to take my phone, take my phone and all your bank statements as well.

They also thought your bank statements, which you handed over as well. Yeah. You handed over, I believe multiple times. No, just one. I was just one. There was a, there was some, they said there was another phone, but there wasn't. There was one phone I had as well. And then eventually you admit to 232 breaches of their rules and the FA rule E eight, which is betting over five seasons from 20th of February 2017 to betting up until January 21. Yes, I really saw.

And like I said, there was people saying I was match fixing, but none of it is match fixing. It was just like I said before, I was betting on myself to school first from, I think this was a well back. And it's kind of like, that's not like I'm not trying to not trying. I'm still trying to do the right thing. It's not like I'm smashing someone and getting a yellow card here then everywhere.

Yeah, and the report actually does say that, it says that you weren't, you weren't, this, the commission said that you weren't match fixing, which is a completely different, completely different thing. They're making bets on like games that you're, either you're playing in betting on yourself to school or betting on the team when you're not in the team, which is what, from what I read, which is what happened. Gambling in generally, when did that start in your life?

When did you start first gambling? I think it's just kind of like as your young, it's like a little flutter, they call it like you and like the fair arcade kind of thing, just trying to win a little change or something or these kind of things. So I'd say like around 15, 15 or so. And it got progressively worse. Yeah, I said the more money you get, the more the higher the sales go, it's kind of like I've always this is fine. This is coming next month.

Did you not realize, you know, throughout those sort of five years when you were betting a lot, 232 breaches, that your relationship with betting was unhealthy?

I think on the 200 and it was a far too breaches, like there was, there was some bets in there that ladder we could making, but that, but I was willing to take responsibility just to get the process all over and done with because having that hovering over me and trying to concentrate on my career is not the best for the best for the best for the I don't, I don't well to finish on 20 goals with that hanging over me, but in terms of thinking your problem is kind of like you don't think of.

I've always just this is going to happen. So it's like, once I won this, this, this, this, this, this can happen. You never think of the negatives, you always think of the positives and being on the money I was on, which I force a lot of the time and it's kind of like it's fine, I'll get that in the back end of the month. That's coming back this and this month. Oh, he owes me this is fine. What impact was it having on your life betting?

I feel like it was just the impact it would have. It was just waiting for payday. Right. Like my wife was really much. You went for payday. But you could spend your age and then wait for payday. Spend your age, wait for payday. Yeah, but I'll pay on sort of thing. I need to pay for first. And then it's like, I got this player. Do that. It's fine. Payday will come soon. So it wasn't it wasn't like spend this money. I should be good with hair or paying on this.

You took care of your I took care of what needs to be care of and my head is kind of like my money is my money. I couldn't spend it. How I want to and yeah, pretty much pretty much like that. I've made my money. So to me, I want to spend it. And one of the one of the things that was quite surprising is bets against Bettsfield team to lose when you weren't playing in the team. You must you knew betting was wrong, right? Like you knew that as a footballer, you weren't allowed to bet.

My knowledge of not my knowledge of betting on football. I don't think I recall once somebody coming in just given a talk on their experience betting, not you can't bet on football. So it wasn't like I shouldn't be betting on this should be better on that. And I feel like I think the bet step on my team to lose when I'm not playing. I think a few other majority of those were within the bets that I know about personally.

I think I didn't didn't do what I still took responsibility of them for them. So the whole process could get cleared up. And you don't know about some of these bets you're saying because you did them through somebody else. Yeah. And you did them through somebody else because you knew you weren't allowed to, right? It wasn't through that. I knew I wasn't allowed to. I didn't see one of my parents seeing what I'm doing my money.

This was a point of contention in the documents. The F A said, you know, he's betting through somebody because he didn't want the F A to find out. You're saying you bet through somebody else because your parents, the male was going to the house and you don't want them opening up the post and seeing it. Yeah, that's right. Essentially. That was a point. I mean, the commission go, go their own way on that.

And then, okay, so moving on from that, there's all these aggravating factors in the, in the document. Was he aware of the rules? I think you eventually admitted that you were aware of the rules in terms of not being able to bet on football. Going back to the days, I think, Northampton, I think it was Northampton. One of your previous chat, I think your previous chairman at the football club was thrown out because of a betting scandal.

And then you have a relative in your life that was also issued with a breach of the F A rules for betting in 2007 as well. So the commission concluded that you were aware of the rules and that you couldn't bet. But you sort of counteract that by saying you didn't have. I think it was, it was kind of a gray area. Right.

I think there was a time where, like I said, the close, I've been at, they were like, beginning of every season though, I feel like they'd have somebody come in, but not actually tell you what you can and what you can't bet on. What would that person say just like, just his experience is on betting. Like, it come in and say, this is me betting. And then I've lost this much. I've come through this. So when, if you think about betting, don't do it.

So it wasn't like, you can't be betting on football or you can't be betting on, yeah, you can't be betting on football. It was just his experiences of going through a gambling stage. Because that, so you didn't know you could, you couldn't bet as a player? No. I think it was a gray area. Some, like you'd hear you can, you hit it, you can't. And then there's certain things you say you can't bet on. Like, we, me personally, I feel like it was a gray area.

And you admitted in the second aggravating factors about knowing, knowing whether you, basically admitting to whether you were betting or not. And in the interview with the commission during the process, you said that you had lied early on by saying, I don't bet on football in an earlier interview. But, you know, that was one of the first interviews you had and you, you had responded, I don't bet on football. And that was an accurate. Yeah, that was when obviously they threw everything up me.

And I thought if I was just denied, then it's so fine. They wouldn't find nothing but then. Obviously, they'd take your phone. Yeah, they'd have been went through and then, yeah, admit it's a, admit it's a wider. And the FA, the fourth aggravating factor was whether the player sought to conceal his identity when he set up his own betting in 2017. The commission didn't accept the FA submission there. They didn't believe that you'd concealed it in that regard.

They deleted messages issue number five, commission concluded that there wasn't evidence that you deleted any messages. They they I was accused of dealing message. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, by the FA, but commission said that they didn't have substantial evidence for that. Yeah. Kind of the same. So I was told not to. And you didn't. Absolutely nothing from the club. The commission couldn't find any evidence that you had deleted anything.

And then the phone issue we've talked about already the last issue was around whether you had a gambling addiction and they brought out a psychologist called Dr. Philip Hopley, who looked you did interviews with you. He's a highly qualified and experienced psychiatric expert, according to the commission. And he interviewed you on two occasions and he formed a clear opinion that you had a gambling addiction. And accordingly, the commission accepted the findings of the doctor on this issue.

And that's part of the reason that you're given a more lenient sentence. And because Dr. Hopley said that you had an impulsive compulsive disorder. Yeah, was that the first time you'd had a gambling addiction? Yeah. Through this process is tribunal. Yeah, because I feel like it wouldn't be in me to be myself forward to speak to one of these people. To see if I did have one. So it was kind of like, like I said, my stubbornness comes into play on this one.

It's kind of like, now fine, I can stop when I want to stop. Did he explain to you a gambling addiction is since then? A little bit, yeah, we did speak with us Hopley on around one addiction is, but it's kind of like. You don't allow yourself to believe it. Like, I feel like if you want to stop doing something, I feel like people think in the head. I can stop if you want to not know and deep down and you probably can't. Could you have stopped? Probably. Yeah, I feel like it's 50-50.

Yeah, because I feel like a thrill on it is kind of like, what keeps you going? Because the FA though sort of counterpoint to that was that there was periods where you didn't gamble. So they were saying that to the commission that, you know, it's not gambling addiction because there's parts of his journey where he's not gambling or he's betting on other things, for example. Do you still gamble now? No. Anything? Any betting at all? Look, what's any?

Has that required therapy or any sort of professional support? I think it's kind of beating in the public eye if I was really like going into these places and these kind of things. I think it's more the embarrassment that is still continuing, like this kind of thing. I would allow myself and like you look back, I think like you sit, take a back seat and look up all the money you've lost and what you could have went on and what.

And especially now having people to provide for, it's kind of like, you can't be spending that money on this. You can go to here or just manage your money, but how I look at things and how I look at me, I foresee that as being naive. We don't really get much information. Do we growing up about gambling?

Well, really, how did it like, how to spend our money or tax, especially I think about you guys is like young, you know, 20 year olds, that I just, you know, playing football and then you become millionaires because you're good at it. It's kind of different for like my pursuit because I building a business, you have to see a photo, you have finance people around you, you have controls, budgets, forecasts, PNLs, all this stuff.

So, you know, you're surrounded by like money minds and brains around you when you're building a business, but being a young 20 year old millionaire who, I'm presuming nobody gave you financial education. No, it's kind of like, like you said, yeah, I've been having that much money at a tender age, it's kind of like, what's I do with it?

And I'm not a family that comes from money, so it's not like my parents could help me a lot with that, but they would have their say on some things, but it's like, you kind of have to try and just manage it yourself. And just assume doing this is the right thing. You don't know what you don't know. Pretty much.

The bit of this case that I was, I was, I found difficult is that using someone else to do the best, because for me, that's that point still like in that he did know, I think that's what people would think they'd look at that and go, of course, I can see it. Because I'm thinking, your mom, your mom and dad ain't open your post at 27 years old, like my mom ain't going to open my post.

This is when I was away, away from her. Yeah, so I know my post is good tomorrow. Parents, and I feel like, of course, your parents want to be. No, what's going on if you're getting this letter through that's you're not paying this or. Like I said, seeing what you're spending your money on, and I feel like, because we're a tight family, my mom would worry about that. And there was actually times where she's opened it and she's kind of said some things about it.

And the FAA had highlighted text messages and you said to me, I can't have that one in my name. What was the app I gambled on on your phone this time from text messages that they'd found? That's the bit that I struggled with was I was like, I wasn't sure there, but this chapter of your life has clearly been a big learning moment. 100% like looking back on what I've done, what I changed some bits probably, but here's what it is. And the man I'm now continuing forward is kind of different.

What was before you take like when we think about responsibility for actions. What's what can what responsibility do you take for this where you say listen, this is what I take responsibility for here. And this is also like going back to a question asked earlier about like what do you wish someone had had said to you when you first did that. I don't know, these bets five five six seven years ago. What's the responsibility you take and what's the what's the lesson you've taken from this process?

I think the response to your take was yeah, I was betting on myself school first, which now you I know you shouldn't be doing which I said responsibility and I'll take. For responsibility for the punishment I'm getting now. So it would be kind of like. And what I tell myself around them kind of times is like managing money, but don't get mixed in the wrong crowd. I say, just don't follow fashion. Have your own mind set, mind frame on what you shouldn't should be doing.

Or if you don't know look more into it and if that's what you really want to do look more into it and what you can and can I can't do. It's interesting because when they were deliberating your your punishment one of the things that came to mind is perception. And what it would admit what the perception it would send to the rest of the game. Do you think they they made an example of you? I feel so yeah. Do you think that's right?

I can't I don't think it's right now, but because you're a high profile Premier League player. Obviously if you get away with doing something like this, this could other players low levels could also emulate it. So they've got an opportunity here to send a message. 100% 100% and I feel like a lot of people think that in terms of. If I know district of lower leagues, but if I was actually we actually did look at some cases that was somewhat similar, someone worse.

And their punishment wasn't like how mine is. I think the fact that they see the opportunity the fact that I'm playing in the Premier League doing well. Sniff round England. It's kind of like right this our chance to punish him then people know this is kind of. The punishment you look like if you want to do. Why done?

It's funny because I was actually surprised to read that in the the analysis section of this document where it says the perception of the impact of football betting on the integrity of the game is key a key consideration when deciding on your sanction. Which does kind of suggest that they're quite intentional in making sure that they make an example of you. There are thereabouts in their words. And obviously you have a huge position of influence so that's that's key.

And then they submit their their fae suggested that you get 12 months ban as a suspension, I believe. And that was their final sanction. The commission didn't accept that.

And ordinarily the commission would have imposed 50 15 months suspension had you not pled guilty to the charges which lowered your sanction and then also you got another reduction in the sanction because the findings from the doctor who found that you had a gambling addiction which brought your sentence down to eight months and you'll find 50,000 pounds. It's interesting because you know I'm a football fan so I want to see you play and you're on such a role.

Brent for the run such a role so like as a football fan although you smash the United last year. Like it's so it's so good to see like a young black English striker tearing up the game at its peak. It's gotten to see you out of the game. It is. And I feel like like how I am and how people know how I stay this is this is nothing I know for fact I'll come back stronger than this. I better than always before like this is gives me the hunger again to recharging come back.

On another another level like like I said before earlier. No time to do a long things no time to do a long things and just like just when that first game comes and I can play then. It's not a ball game. It's on. When you found out you you suspended for eight months. How did that feel? What's that like? Because you know you're in the peak of your powers right now right? I know it's painful but I feel like the hard part is kind of now.

Because right now I'll be playing football matches and I can't be around the players and not the football ground and things like this. And it's kind of like okay that's what you want to do. Punish me from there but I feel like keep me away from the ground. If I wasn't as strong as I was in my head that would break some people. And I'll be talking about mental health and all these kind of things.

And what's that kind of doing to a player that's not allowed in the environment even though you can't play games but. Keeping away from the training ground. Knowing the footballs their life and that's all they've done from such a young age. How was that going to help them? That's all. Yeah this is what I completely agree with you. I think the sanction itself is important because it does send a message and I agree with that. But the bit that I just struggle with is the can't train at the club.

And we know as you you're pointing out there like mental health keeping active is such an important thing. Especially if you've been playing football since you were a kid and it's your purpose. It's what you know. So psychologically and physically there's a real strong case to keep your keep your active. And I've seen a lot of people have their say on this a lot of people think you know you could have trained at the ground and then use that time to educate young players on gambling.

That would have been useful. But to keep you out of the club, not allow you to train and to kind of push you out on your own, it seems. Doesn't feel like it's smart. This isn't this isn't add up with what. Like the things they push forward like. Like we say the whole football community is on big on mental health and then they're free going to do this and like. Push me away from that. Like the whole football environment. Like by all means it's not a place where I want people to feel sorry for me.

Like that's the last thing. That's the last thing I want and means a person people that know me would know that's not what one thing I'm trying to achieve. But so that says what is somebody that's not as strong as me in the head happens to be going through this kind of situation and their punishment is they're not allowed to the training ground. Like that would break them like right now being not being around the training ground.

It is hard me but I just know when I'm at the training ground, train harder, be ready for the game when I'm complete. But it's like I said it's not a nice feeling and the whole purpose of not being allowed at the training ground is baffling to me but. Do you have hard days still? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like everybody has our days. I mean like with through this process as there have been days where you know lay your ups and your downs and difficult days where you start.

You have low moments because you are away from football the presses on top of you. Yeah, I feel like I've had a hard hours, hard two hours kind of things like the mornings. I'd wake up and come up yesterday but getting a shower, get active when you're there working. It's kind of like out your head as much you don't want to do it. You've seen the long one that that time I didn't want to get up.

I didn't want to put the work in, it's pretty enough now whereas if I'm saying I are tomorrow and then tomorrow comes I'll do it next day. So you still training? Yeah, I'm still keeping fit, so do my own thing. Working with the person on train now. Yeah, person on train now which is good and it's not like a linear one. One that pushes me so I feel like I'm not good but I've got the best people around me to keep me fit and keep me going. I can't say that my family is key.

My family is the one that's better people that's helping me going as well and especially my children. You're a mummy's boy. Yeah. Sometimes in these moments it's difficult for us but it's harder to watch the impact as in our family right?

Yeah, 100% I feel like even when the whole thing was like those allegations and the people like going into our mum's work and just saying certain things and I'd be at a petrol station they scream certain things and I'll be with my family and my children and people just be like shouting dumb things out. Just like, you point it like just shouting things out, you point it turning on today's game or these kind of things or just silly immature things and how I am.

I'm kind of hotheaded but especially when family are involved in my children around it's kind of like. It's hard for me not to want to say something called these kinds of things and it's like going through that period. It's hard and people that you wouldn't normally speak to or my parents or family wouldn't normally speak to then pop up and just be like, ah, something's reviving.

So it's when the bad things come along how you want to talk and find out what's going on whereas when I'm screwing goals or getting picked for England that we don't want to say too much. But that's life and that's how people are and we don't miss them. We see them, we see the evil eyes.

Has this process been has it illuminated things for you in scenarios of your life, certain people and some people that are there for you and stand, you know, because I was even thinking about the gaffer Thomas Frank, he's come to your defense multiple times talking about how he disagrees with the way that it's been handled the sanctions and he thinks that you should be able to train with the team and be out there educating young kids, et cetera, et cetera. And I can't just go to the next table.

I could agree with you that the commission made, not just himself, Gareth selfgate as well, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I know I spoke to him as well. What does that mean to you? It feels good. No, and I've got. Then behind me, obviously the England manager and my club manager, back in me 100%. It feels good and gives me a bit of extra strength to make sure when I'm back I'm firing. and gives me that bit of hunger. Not that I'm lacking it, but I feel like the extra boost to feel like.

Okay, it's someone I'm back, kind of thing. And the club standing by you in such a way, has that kind of cemented your loyalty a little bit to Brentford? Yeah, I feel like, like I said earlier, I want to manage in a club to really want me and put their arm around me, and I feel like throughout the whole situation, Brentford have done that, not even the players as well, I spoke to loads of them. They don't agree with it, but it is what it is. And... And your mum? Yeah, she's...

Like when I was going back to the tweet when I said, when I pulled that tweet out, she's the first person that rang me when my sister said, listen, you don't need to do nothing. Just don't do no more, please. I've been saying now she's been sick for... She feels sick and stomach full an hour long, felt the whole situation. And putting it out there, she's just thinking, it's going to damage me, damage her, and damage the family and things like that. So I'll just put it, okay.

Let me just do the talking while I'm back. Get the family, not smiling, but happy again. And I'm sure they can't wait till Ceeley. There's some back on the pitch, going goals. Does she... Does it mean the most to you to make her happy? And to make her feel good? All my family, yeah. I feel like... Like she always just text me randomly and she's like, she was like, I don't want to bother you.

Sometimes I just check on what I'm sitting on what's like, the wait for you to come online to know you're okay and alive and well. And that's just... That's how my mum is. Like, it'll be sometimes she's like, she knows, she knows, she cools me. Random times it'll be 12 at night or it'll be early doors. Just checking in, I was fine. Love you so much, this and that. But yeah, that's our favourite one, checking to see if I'm online and what's up. Probably don't pestering me in our eyes.

But it's all, I think, making them happy, making them smile is what? It's what gives me the filter, do well. The Brentford fan base? Yeah, strong, massive. You're going to learn you a lot of love as well? Yeah, yeah, where I go, I get love from the Brentford fans. That's good and that's cute. What's your, you're going to get back to football and I can feel you've got a certain fire inside you.

Yep. I think... I just, not that I need to prove anybody wrong, but there's a lot of haters and doubt as I was out there thinking, you ain't going to be the same on when he comes back. Actually, they're right. I'm going to be a different man, I'm going to be even better than that. That guy that school done goes before, so... How do you know? Because I'm, I'm built different. I'm entirely different. I'm not one of these, oh, he could have been a great player. I didn't need on this.

I'm, I'm going to go beyond that. It's, like I said, not a point to prove, but a point to prove to myself. How do you ensure that happens? Like, what is it that, because I think about controllables, what is it that you can control to make sure that you come back and even better player? Is it just training harder? What is it that you're... It's training harder, but in my head, every time I step on a pitch, I'm, I'm thinking in my head, I'm going to school today.

I'm going to school, I know I'm going to school. When the chance comes, I'm going to school. Because in the game, your, your balance gets a chance that you should be scoring. So in my head now, I'm thinking, right, when I do play, and I do get that chance that I should be scoring, it has to be a goal. So it's going to be a goal. Well, if it's not, then it's going to be a goal. Well, if it's not, it will be. I'll be two goals. You know, Brentford is a fantastic team.

I think of all the teams in the Premier League. If we talk about admiration, I'm really in my right at the moment, but Brentford, I absolutely think are brilliant, brilliant team. Really ton of admiration for them. There's a lot of people that are obviously linking you to other clubs and saying, oh, is he going to join this? Ranch Hashenite. All of that. How'd you receive all of that? You know, all these links to, because everyone's looking for a striker. Strikers are like the hardest to find.

Goal school is in the Premier League. You got Harlan, you got Kane, he's gone. Now, now you're technically the second best striker. That's currently in the league on paper. So, you know, these big clubs are going to come knocking. They're going to say, you know, Chelsea's got a fucking unlimited money over here. You know, it would be a striker. How'd you receive all of that? I'm really like, from young age, like I said, I don't let this all affect me.

Obviously, here it will go on in the background, but my job is to keep training well when I get the chance in the games to keep scoring and doing well. But I think everybody wants to play at the top of the tree and not that Brentford aren't there. But I feel like playing for big club fight for trophies and these kind of things everybody wants to do. And if the chance was to come along, I think I'll be silly not to look more into it.

But I feel like, yeah, and the managing knows that I want to be playing at the highest level possible. And whenever that time comes, then it's so be it. But I can't think of my time at Brentford's been being good. He probably won the best times in my career. And that's a special club, like they just got something that they got a culture there, which is super special. So, you know, that culture you describe will get the best out of you as a player for sure.

So it's like, great talent, great culture. He calls great results. It's like 1 plus 1 equals 3. Yeah, now, yeah, I like the next club I'll go to. If I was to move, it would be like the right club. When you say the right club, you're not talking about Liverpool, are you? How did you really live in Puffan? Yeah, Liverpool. You've been in Liverpool for your whole life? Yeah, I've been in Liverpool for my whole life.

But from young, I've liked Arsenal, like watching Arsenal from how they play and the kind of how passionate fans are. But yeah, Liverpool fans, Liverpool boy at heart. So Liverpool at heart love how Arsenal play, love their style. Anything about Manchester United? I liked, I liked Barber Topfun, it was there. I liked watching United a lot when Barber Topfun is there. Thank you. Well, we do actually need a striker, so...

I've actually got a contract here that Eric and Richard Arnold are giving me, so... Imagine. Now, listen, I hope you... I just want to see you back playing again, because I think it's a gift to the Premier League, your talent. And also, when I look at your story, you didn't have a straight line that a lot of people have in football. You went up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, and you persevered, because the talent is... You can't argue with it. You can't argue with the talent.

And so, this whole gambling section of your life, it's a bit of a blip in there. It's a hurdle you've overcome, and you've taken your punishment. You move on from that. You admit responsibility. Yeah. Yeah. And so now it becomes the back again about the football. Yeah, like you said, the journey's been... It's been wild. It's been crazy. If I was to read a book on... myself, I'd say this guy's done a lot, and been through a lot, and...

He's still fighting, and he's still climbing to the top of the tree. How's he managing all that? With everything else coming on? What's the goal? You know, if we have this conversation again at the end of your career, and we sit down here, and we go, man, and you go down, that was a successful career, Steve. What happened? I want to be playing for England, and screwing goes, I don't want to just be... I play for England a couple of times. I want to be the main man, wherever I go, and...

I'm in England, I know, I've got Harry Kane there, he's probably one of the best strikers in the world, if not the best. So, and that's what I'm up against. So, I need to get to that level. So, he just takes... Working hard and... Keep fighting. You raise around the corner as well. Yeah, and that's another... It's another place I want to get to, which I do believe that. I'm ready to get to it, so... And at club level, what are your ambitions there, Info Ball? Win trophies, win some silverware.

I feel like... I feel like I want to play for... The highest level possible. Playful with... Playful club, that's... I'm loved that. Not just one of... But I feel like... Like, with all my moves, I've not just gone to a club for... Whatever, money, whatever. I've gone... It's been the right step for me. And I've achieved something every year, every year. I've just got better and better. You want to win the Premier League one day? That's the aim. That's the aim. I want to win the World Cup also.

I want to win trophies that's like... Wow. I'm being from where... I'm from... Northampton, not many. People can achieve them things or... Be like, yeah... He's been at the World Cup, he's won the World Cup. And even then, like... My one soul is in the same house. Really? Yeah, she doesn't want to move. She's like being there... People will one day be like, yeah... I have his bum, if there... I'll do it now, but... It would be more of achievement. And I've won something like that.

Yeah, and his mom's there. But I haven't come there all the time. I think that's kind of... Kind of how we are, how I am. And you can see that my mom's... She doesn't want to move into some big house. She feels safe and comfy. But the house where she's at, and that shows... That I have no choice but to be grounded. And you have three kids as well? Yeah, three little boys. Do you think about them? Do you think about what...

The legacy you want to leave that they're going to grow up and learn about? Does that crush your mind a lot? Yeah, it does. I want to leave a legacy that they don't have no pressure on their shoulders to walk into. I just want to... Whether there is a football or whatever industry they look to go into, which obviously I would want to say, it's football. But whatever they do, I want them to be successful and be strong like my chosen.

I feel like I want them... I do want them to have the same upbringing I had, like I wouldn't put them to that private school on these things because I don't want to just give them everything, I want them to have to work for some of the things. What advice would you give them about how to navigate? Say they do go into football or three of them. And they say, they come to you one day, they say, bad, listen, just got a call from the biggest club in the North Manchester United.

And I'm going to accept that go to Manchester at playing to Eric. I need some advice, Dad. You know, I'm on my way tomorrow. What advice can you give me, Dad? How the mentality as you're the best player on the pitch. You might not be, but having that mentality will help you play better. And just have the hunger. If you haven't got the hunger or the drive, you'll step behind already. And say like, also, the attitude is key. Because I'll get you a long way. Not just in football or work in life.

Quick one, I discovered a product which has changed my life called Eight Sleep. And I'm so proud to say today that I had a chat with the founder of the brand and they are now a podcast sponsor. And one of the things I've come to learn on this podcast from speaking with sleep experts like Matthew Walker is how important temperature is when it comes to sleep. The temperature of your room, the temperature of your bed.

And also one of the big insights I had from speaking to some experts was that the temperature of the room should fluctuate throughout the night as you move through different stages of sleep. So when you first get into bed, it should be quite cool in bed. It should then get a little bit cooler. And then the temperature should increase near the end. And that is a reflection of what would have happened in nature once upon a time.

You've probably come to learn that I have sponsors on this podcast that I use and products that I love. My sponsors should be a reflection of the conversations I'm having but also a reflection of what I'm using in my life. So to celebrate them being a new podcast sponsor, I always want to get a discount for you guys and I've got one. Go to eightsleep.com, which is E-I-G-H-T-Sleep.com. Slash Stephen. And if you do that, you'll save $150 on the pod cover that I have on my bed.

The one I'm talking about. Grab your pod cover, send me a DM and let me know how you get on. A quick word on Hule. As you know, there are a sponsor of this podcast and I'm an investor in the company. One of the things I've never really explained is how I came to have a relationship with Hule. One day in the office many years ago, a guy walked past called Michael and he was wearing a Hule T-shirt. And I was really compelled by the logo.

I just thought for a minute, a design aesthetic point of view, it was really interesting. And I asked him what that word meant and why he was wearing that T-shirt. And he said, this is brand called Hule and they make food that is nutritionally complete and very, very convenient and has the planet in mind. And he the next day dropped off a little bottle of Hule on my desk.

And from that day onwards, I completely got it because I'm someone that cares tremendously about having a nutritionally complete diet. But sometimes, because of the way my life is, that falls by the wayside. So if there was a really convenient, reliable, trustworthy way for me to be nutritionally complete in an affordable way, I was all ears, especially if it's a way that is conscious of the planet. Give it a chance, give it a shot. Let me know what you think.

You know, when you did this tweet, famous tweet, I'll speak soon with no thought. I understand that, it came from a place of anger, like a bit defensive, whatever mood settles your mum takes you out. You're like, okay, maybe this is not going to help the situation. There was a lot you wanted to say, right? You wanted to talk specifically about the allegations you've decided now from what you're saying.

That it's not worth it for you to like go in and dispute things and say this that there's not true. But was there anything that you do want to say to like the football community or just to the world generally as a message when you tweet that outside of like the stuff where we're like a bit bitter and hurt because everything that's going on and people are attacking you whatever. Is there anything else you wanted to say because I just want to give you a chance just. Not really.

Like you said, the most of it come from anger and it's kind of like, everybody's against me kind of thing. But with that, it's kind of like I was more worried on people like thinking how I am. How I am as a person, like what they read and what they hear rather than how I actually am. But the people around me, friends, family, generally people are should be worried about. They know how I am. Why don't you take spend to bob down the road, how actually I'm probably never going to see me again.

So it doesn't matter that I'm explaining that. Why am I going out there to give it like a back on fourth. I don't need to do that. And it doesn't benefit me. It just benefits him in trying to get more reaction from me. So like he said, it definitely was out of our anger, anger kind of moment. Let me say that. Not knowing. Not going to affect it could have. So it's not. I don't need to try and prove nobody wrong. I'm proving nobody right. It's just. I'm doing it myself, family and.

Do what I do best, which is playing well and scoring goals. Speaking with your feet. a DM someone sent you. Yeah. Someone had DM due calling you a black seaword and you posted the tweet and subsequently you stopped taking the knee during at the start of Premier League games and such. Racism and football. Do you still receive racial abuse still today? Yeah. You do. If I was supposed to receive everything I've received that's been racist. I'd have easily around 100 messages.

Easily just real off there. Has that increased since the sanctions we made against you? Found the commission? No, because I feel like most of it's just betting rubbish that I get like people are saying but I feel like most of it's from playing a game and it's that someone bet on you or you haven't scored and then they come on come for you for like these kind of things or the fantasy league. Yeah, football league. You don't get enough points and now come at you like this

or your score to lose that bit. Just things like this. Why did you stop taking the knee? Because I feel like it's a token gesture. It's not really. It's lost its purpose. You can see like before games like people run off but they're not half the knee. The purpose isn't anymore and I don't think that's doing nothing in the game to help stop these kind of things

will happen. More needs to be done for sure for sure. 100%. All over the world, not just in the UK but I've seen so what happened to Vinicus Jr. as well in the in the Llega and it does feel like if there was harsher action taken then a lot of this stuff won't be happening even from the platforms and also from the police. Yeah, most of them are from abroad and it's kind of like if it's not in the UK they can't do enough about it. I'm like okay, so what you just keep sending from

wherever but yeah, it's becoming do nothing. It's fine then basically you're saying it's fine. Yeah. So what do you do? Yeah, I feel like it's lost its purpose personally anyway. I feel like it's kind of like puppets that you put a top of kind of like let's try this. Well let's do this. Keep people quiet for a bit. Just do that and we try and look. It's not trying. You counting down

the days now? Yeah, I'm like really? You get Christmas. Yeah, I can't kind of down the days or two I can train if you're on the boys because like feeling full prison at the moment. When I'm on the boys I think won't get easier but you'll get a little bit easier but not the same as like you train a whole week hard at the end of the week it's not like an goal or reward you're not playing a match. And then is it January you can play? Yeah, January the 17th. You can train again. I can play

matches. Oh, you can play matches. Yeah, 17th for September. I can train so. Oh, September, you can train and then September, I can train. Yeah, I can be in a club around the boys. Okay, I'm not long. Yeah, not long, not long. Less than a month. Yeah, it feels like age is all. And then you can play in January. That's going to be a very big game. A lot of people are going to be watching that. Yeah. Do you feel pressure? No, I don't know. I thrive off pressure.

When it's like, he surely can't do that. He's not going to have to do it. And that's what, like the pressure was like we spoke about after the playoff final. I'm going to penalty. After the game, everyone was like, you must have been scared like if you miss it, probably could have like, you could probably could have lost a massive thinking, no, I can't wait. Like I knew for Fatsal school, not plenty. 100% because it was the pressure. And like the reward after it gives

you a bigger chance to jump into primary. And more money for the family. So you trying to prove people right or trying to prove people wrong. What makes Mochi? Uh, proving people wrong. So I can have a little digger. Yeah. I like that. I like when I see certain tweets. When I do something, I come back to it. I'm just like, I'll comment and dig at the person. And it's just lots of words. You're right. You win. You've been taking names throughout this

process. Just like this pundits at this position. I mean, there's loads of pundits. I say loads of things. It's all opinions. But when I come back school enough, I'm sure they'll go back into the bus and put it on what is there. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm interrupting this broadcast with a very special announcement. Two years ago, I started writing a book based on everything I've learned from doing this podcast and meeting all of the incredible people that I've had the privilege of

meeting. But also from my career in business, from running my marketing businesses, my software business, my investment fund, and everything else that I've been doing in business and life. And from this, I've created a brand new book called The Diary of a CEO, The 33 Laws for Business and Life. If you want to build something great or become great yourself, like the guest that I've sat here and interviewed, I ask you, please, please, please read these 33 laws. The book I always

should have written. If you like this podcast, this book is for you. And it is available now in the description of this podcast below. And every single day until it's out later this month, one person that pre-orders it that takes a picture of their pre-order, uploads it to their story on Instagram or social media and tags me will win a gold version of this book signed by me. And there's only 33 copies of those available. So pre-order it now, tag me on social media when you do

and 33 of you are going to win a very, very special book. We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're going to leave it for. So they wrote a question for you here in this diary. The question been left for you is, when have you most had to face your fears? Probably the bun. Because I think loads of things going through your head. Like I said, follow having a football

at such a young age. Not knowing if there's loads of things that go through your head. How you going to cope with things at the time? I was kind of like, not worried. I feel like I'm a confident person, but going out in certain places, the topic is going to be about the whole scandal that's going on. People are going to talk about it, but with me it's like, did they want to talk about it? They're thinking, do I want to talk about it? Not scared in a way, but it's kind of like,

it's an awkward meeting thing. It's an elephant in the room. Yeah, yeah, and then it comes to the point where it's like, they'll say something like, oh, but you can't do that. It's kind of like, oh, that kind of thing. So I'm like, yeah, what's done is done. You can talk about it, then it's clear. So I feel like not knowing what people are thinking about you, not people who want to kind of talk to you, not knowing if you're going to be fit when you come back or not knowing what

you're going to do while you're sure off. That loads of things going to your head in this like. Hasn't crossed your mind. You might like lose your form or something. That's what she did. Yeah, it did at the time, but I know I can get myself in goal-school positions. So I don't feel like that would be such a big issue, but it just crossed your mind like,

by far, the school within the first five games, six games. You're going to think the world's ending kind of thing, but yeah, I think that was the fear of these kind of things, not knowing what's next kind of thing. And as the days of past, it's got easier, right? It's got easy in ways, but it's got harder in like, it's easier than like, sooner than we run the boys and that's kind of like my head's fine now. I'm at the club doing what I do the best and enjoy, but then it's kind of like

a then the week of complete games. Valsa, the game was kind of like, it's like torture watching games. Yeah, it's torture. I hate watching games when I should be on the pitch. Do you think you deserve the pack punishment you got? Um, I mean, if that's what the rules are, then that's what punishment I should have got. Yeah. Looking on the other cases, and the fact that they were lower leagues, it's kind of like, why did you get that? And I got this because he's there and I'm here.

But now I feel like if this is the punishment for doing what I've done, to make that makes for the next person gets that makes for the next person gets that like make it all fair and correct. But that's not the thing goes fair, but it's what is. I can't see. I can't change off it now. I can't. That's not putting me focuses on. If it's fair or not, because that doesn't help no situation. Yeah, I think it's possible to take responsibility for your actions.

100% I did that. But also to think that it was unfair because they I think maybe rightly so, they are, they are making, making an example of you because those lower league players, it would never send a message, would it? So with the big wages and the big status and the popularity and all the upsides comes this other thing, which is like bigger sanctions, bigger publicity, bigger. It's more of a talking point. Yeah, more of a story. And I'll tell you what, you go out there,

you start bagging goals. I ain't nobody going to be talking about anything else. That's another reason I want to be scoring goals. So 40 things right and that people talk about,

what goalscoring rather than rubbish past. I think you I think you're going to I think you're going to go back to Brentford and I think you're going to, if I can tear it up, because I sent a real deep drive in you that I've not seen in many people a real sense of like self belief and conviction, even what you say about the penalties there, like I played at soccer a day and they came over to me and asked me if I wanted to penalty. I went to the back of the group. I was

12 that so hard this year. I would play this year. I got injured before the game. I will traffic, but I played in training and we had to do a penalty shoot out. Pock was the manager. And I just said to myself, Steve stepped forward and take one. And this was to decide who got what's dressing room. I took one. I scored it. And then the next day I pulled my, pulled my hamstring, got a great three tear, but I was proud of myself for stepping up and doing it.

Yeah, yeah. I think if you have in your head, I'm going to do this. You have a better chance of thinking what if this, there's no point thinking that. Back, it's 100% like it was strikers I've played with. Like especially strikers I've played with now. I'll say his name Brian because he knows he's like my little brother. I said to him like when he missed a chance, he gets so angry with himself. It's fine. You're not a robot. You can miss chances.

When the next chance comes, you'll score. And he's got a lot better at that and it's been scoring. I think just the well on things. But you've got big chance coming out, January. Yes. And I hope you score. I know. I know. I know. I know I do well. And like you said, this is just another hurdle in our bumpy road, but it's so good. It could be worse. I think thank you for the time. Thank you for the inspiration you've given me. I feel like I

understand you. I feel like I understand you and listen, we all make mistakes in life. I think it's really important. We've all made mistakes. I make so many mistakes. I think yours are obviously more publicly broadcast because of who you are at the top of the game. You're the pt of powers. But I think it's important, as you said, that you take responsibility for it. You move on and you let the football do the talking. I think that's exactly what you have done. And that's what I'm really

excited to see from you going forward, as I said, because you're special. You've got a very special talent. You've got a very special mentality and a very special talent to match it. And we can't let that go to waste. So we need to go to waste for sure. I'm going to people around me. They won't allow it to go to waste. Good. Thank you so much for your time, bro. It means a lot to me that you came here and spoke to me and I'm a big fan and I really do hope you end up at Manchester

United one day. Thanks for having me. Thanks. Thanks. It's been good to talk through things and maybe this can help the next person if there was something to do with some things or maybe to open up about some things. So yeah, it's probably easy. It's good. Thanks for me, like I said. Quick one. You guys know that for years now, my office has quite literally been everywhere on a plane in the back of my car, in a terminal in an airport or on a train. You name it. I've probably worked

there. Ever since I started my first business at 19 years old, I've been working on the move. All I need is Wi-Fi, a desk, and my headphones. And I'm set. And one of the places that has always had my back when I'm struggling to find an office is we work. I've been using Wi-Fi for years now, whether it's in Manchester, London, Manhattan, or LA, Wi-Fi is easy. It literally requires no thinking. There's no stress of finding the perfect work in location. Wi-Fi does it all for you.

Plenty of desk space, meeting rooms, collaboration spaces, drinks, snacks, it's all there. So if you're next remote working trip away from the office or if you want a new fresh space to work in, then don't just work anywhere. Wi-Fi might just be your answer. And you can get 25% off your first six months of we work all access by using code CEO works. That's one word CEO works. And to redeem this offer, visit we.co-co-ceo-works.