This is certainly an interesting topic. Is it okay to ever check your partner's phone? It's a form of cheating. Here's what's interesting.
I found that... Neil Strauss, the former world's greatest pick-up artist, best-selling author. He opens up about cheating, monogamy, whose work is insightful and controversial. Do you think it's natural to be faithful to one person? In my research, most evolutionary argument to make the most sense was that we're Wired Cheat after about seven years. That said, I realized that all relationship issues are historical. For example, I heard someone I loved all for this section.
It's an sexual experience that wasn't that great. Went to a sex addiction rehab. Another therapist said, other reason you've never been in a healthy relationship. It's because your mother wants to be in a relationship with you. My mum never proved this single person I dated. When I wanted to live with my girlfriend, my mum cut me off. She'd come in my room and tell me about how old my dad was. I was only when I understood her, so you grew up trapped.
You can call that emotional obsessed. And then what happens as soon as you're in a relationship, you want to escape. Having that outlet of cheating or drugs means we're not just trapped with this one person. And how does one go about unwiring that? These little things program us, so you got to disengage it. And so what works is... The people that really are struggling to find that love, what advice do you give to them?
People have this fantasy about what they want, but you're going to track someone at your level of growth and self-esteem. Everyone who has that list of, this is what I'm looking for, make that list for yourself and become that person. And then you'll meet that person. It's like just a hundred percent true. What do you think about masturbation? I like how you just asked that question, just I've never shared this. I'll probably regret it. I didn't experiment once.
So... I find it incredibly fascinating that when we look at the back end of Spotify and Apple and our audio channels, the majority of people that watch this podcast haven't yet hit the follow button or the subscribe button wherever you're listening to this, I would like to make a deal with you.
If you could do me a huge favor and hit that subscribe button, I will work tirelessly from now until forever to make the show better and better and better and better. I can't tell you how much it helps when you hit that subscribe button. The show gets bigger, which means we can expand the production, bring in all the guests you want to see and continue to do in this thing we love.
If you could do me that small favor and hit the follow button, whatever you're listening to this, that would mean the world to me. That is the only favor I will ever ask you. Thank you so much for your time back to this episode. Neil, I first came across your work when I was... I'm gonna say 17 years old. Your book was the first book I ever read without moving from the moment I opened it.
Obviously, the book covers the life of pick-up artists and you kind of go on that journey with them and then you shine a light on that world. But for me, what the book taught me was a lot about human psychology and that human psychology was even quite a significant thing in life, business and everything in between in relationships.
And then I read your second book, some years later called The Truth. And again, this book changed my life, but for very different reasons. For reasons that I was struggling with the commitment, I thought that a relationship was prison and your book The Truth gave me an olive branch that maybe I was wrong. And it showed me a sort of a... give me a mental model to redefine how I saw relationships. There's a lot of people struggling with relationships.
Yeah, that's why I wrote it. That was one of those people. Give me a little bit of an overview of your story, up until writing The Truth. I think we're really similar. We're talking a little bit before the show in terms of being a late bloomer in terms of relationships and commitment and freedom being important and all those kind of criteria.
I just thought, you kind of think everything's normal and everyone else is strange and you're normal until you hit a bottom and something goes wrong. And for me, what happened was, I mean, it's super vulnerable to share even though it's in The Truth, but it's weird to say it in person. I was dating someone who I thought, oh, this is more serious relationship. Maybe this could go the long way and then I cheated on them.
And sadly, people usually don't learn a lesson when they cheat and learn the lesson when they get caught. So I got taught. And then you face the reality. That's when the compartment breaks down in your mind and you face the consequences of what you've done. And her being smart was like, done with you, you cheated on me, you betrayed me, goodbye. Good, which is good for her.
And I felt like just wrecked. I felt just, you know, I wrecked it. I hurt someone I loved and cared about. I destroyed my chances for the future that I wanted to have off her like sexual experience that wasn't that great anyway. And so, and this is in the book. So his names are so so Rick Rubin, the producer, the music producer, who's kind of been a mentor to me almost produces my life like the way he literally produced my life like the way I produced record where I'm living.
Everything he's he's someone who can just the way he looks at music, he can look at your life and see what your logical fallacies are. So he said like maybe you're a sex addict. Like, well, what do you mean? It's not like I need to have sex all the time and not addicted to it. I'm not like out there doing crazy things.
He's like, well, I mean, hey, look at all the stuff you did in the game. Did that make you happy? You know, you got everything you wanted to that make you happy. And now you hurt somebody cared about for sexual experience. Maybe you are a sex addict. And we literally are you back and forth about that for months until they was ready to give up on me. And then I said, I don't know, but I'll tell you what, I'll go I'll go to sex addiction rehab because it's not going to hurt. I'll learn something.
I went there very cynically into sex into sex addiction rehab and we do something we did something called like a timeline. We write down your most and you can do this at home. It's a useful thing to do to write down your most impactful experiences positive or negative in your first 17 or 18 years.
And you kind of write them out and I was going for my positive and negative experiences. Now the therapist goes, well, you know the reason you've never been in a healthy relationship. I'm like, no, why? Because everything either I cheated or someone cheated on me or they just didn't work out.
And I go, no, why? She goes, well, it's because your mother wants to be in a relationship with you. And exactly that look you just had was exactly what I had like, what are you talking about? But logically, but my body. Like everything when it passed makes sense. And then she said, and this was like a little intense. She's like, there's a word for that. You call that emotionally incest.
And I was like, what the fuck is that? Like, but it almost like I'm feeling it now. Like I felt this whole like this cold wind blow through like my entire soul. And like my body recognized the truth that she was right. Like why did my mom never prove a single person I dated? Why was I grounded for most of my high school life? Why when I wanted to live with my first girlfriend?
And then my mom cut me off and said, I wasn't allowed to do that. Even though I was like, you know, 19 or 20 or something like that. Like it's insane. You know, why would I sit while watching TV and like, Ms. Hasha, it's fucking creepy. But like, Ms. Hasha, hands and shit like that. Like literally, and why would she come in my room and tell me about like, you know, how horrible my dad was.
And then when I understood her like, yes, you like it, it's crazy. And so, so once I recognize the truth of that, all of a sudden, like it just was never the same again. Basically, just like three types of parenting, right? Is this a, see, there's functional parenting, which is just a parent that takes care of a child's needs as a band of men's when a parent's not there for the child's emotional or physical, you know, emotional or physical needs or the parents gone.
And then even if a parent dies when you're very young, you don't know that that you, someone's going to think that's about you. Then there's a measurement, which is like most people don't know and don't recognize, which is when a parents, when your job take care of parents needs. Okay. When you kind of start parenting them, what's taking care of them? Yes, or, or instead of making choices about what are best for you, to make a choice about what's best for them.
And so, over as long as you're taking care of them, in fact, you can see people who are adults and they call their mom or dad every single day and are always there for the problems that their parents are having and feel guilty if they're not. But then it can be more subtle, like maybe a parent's really anxious and you need to be home and close by and do all these things. But it's not for you to be a better child, it's for them to be less anxious and less worried.
So, some of the measurements in current is occurring as if you grew up feeling sorry for a parent. We're born with kind of all our brain cells, but the neural connections aren't made. Right? And in our early, early childhood experiences, all that wiring is being put together. So, they're like our programmers. Right? Like they literally just programmed us. So, these little things program us. And this woman, PMLity, she's brilliant.
She has this great therapy called post induction therapy, Pitt. And she thinks of her child, she thinks of her childhood as a hypnosis. And she's trying to wake you up from that hypnosis. And it's such a great way to think about it that we're really doctrine of this cult is children, right?
And that cult is our family values, the family system, the way it is, mom, dad, like we have nothing else and that shapes the wine of our brain and then as adults, so much of our journey is to like just wake up. So, how does that all come background to this sex addiction? So, if you grow up in meshed with a parent, well, what happens is, soon as you're in a relationship again, you feel trapped. And that trappedness reminds you of your parents.
The parents in your childhood and so what do you want to do when you're trapped? Fly escape. Exactly. You want to escape. And how do we escape? Cheating. Exactly. Interesting that cheating is a path to escaping. That's quite interesting. Yeah, and it doesn't have to, it's almost like a, and by the way, it's not cheat. Some people will act out in some other way. It could be some other type of a type of escape.
But often it's cheating because we feel trapped again and we feel we just want to pop a hole in that like plastic bag over head before we suffocate and having that outlet of just cheating or fantasy or drugs or whatever it is, like something there, like just helps us escape and not feel trapped. We have our own separate life or we're not just trapped with this one person.
And it's scary. We feel this like terror. I mean, sometimes like before I did all this work, like my girlfriend would like hug me. And I'd like to feel like my skin crawl. I just feel trapped and like she's just loves me as a hug me, but I feel like just like I wanted to escape. See, I can relate in a way because I remember when I would pursue someone that I was attracted to when I was up until the age of about 22.
And the minute they showed an interest in me, I would kind of like dissuade them from wanting to be with me. So I would pursue them. Then once they were interested in me, I'd dissuade them. I would get like my skin would crawl when they showed interest in me. I really had to do a lot of work to get rid of that. Yeah. Like I was, I had an allergic reaction to someone being interested in me.
Yeah, that exact same thing. It's like, and so that's why a lot of people who avoid ins don't recognize her avoidance are like, no, I want love. I want to be in love. That's my whole goal in life. Yeah. How does it feel when someone actually returns your love powerfully? And how does one go about unwiring that or unlearning those limiting beliefs? I'll give it to you in the way that I think is like the most effective.
The first step to heal is humility. Like the number one thing you need is humility. And as the one who once told me, the same brain that got you into this problem is going to get you out of it. And a lot of people think, well, if I read books and I write books, I love books and I was in a podcast. I love podcasts and do podcasts as well. But just taking an information, you're not going to need you need really humility to say shoot. I don't know the answers.
And a just render to a to a to an expert can just say, I know nothing. That's why we're talking before the podcast about AA. And the first step is realizing we were powerless. And I think that humility is the first step to change. And it's man, it's a hell of a step because it's hard for people to really be humble in this world and say, I don't know. So from there, this is the three things. And I think they work in combination. I really think this is the formula.
I love that the therapy model was redone around this, which is one is you need deep intensive workshops where you're that where you're really like an emotional puddle on the ground crying. This stuff came in emotionally and I think you only heal emotionally. I think anyone who's listening to me, even yourself, if you had a moment that really changed, it's something you felt emotionally wasn't.
Oh, if you if there's an idea and you're like, Oh, I get it. It's just a behavioral problem and then you change it. The things that you understand and you keep making the same mistake. You know, as I call them, NLP conscious incompetence. Those are the things where it takes something deeper. So so deep intensive emotional workshop and then everyone goes to these things, the Hoffman process, for example, is very popular right now. Yeah, I have my friends put into the group chat in the day.
Yeah, yeah. So it's Parfled's great. What the survivors program at the Meadows or it's the real retreat center is amazing or therapeutic, but they're a bunch of. So you go to these will always happens or even after any kind of seminar is believe like this is amazing. I totally get it. I see who I am. I'm going to go live my best life now.
And then you get around the same environment and the same behavioral pattern start, you know, sneaking back in and you're back to where you started. So you need the big shift and then you need something for maintenance. That's where talk therapy comes in. So step one, deep workshops, step two is some kind of ongoing maintenance. And here's some again recommend and it's also cheaper. I think then therapy and I haven't been afford to see a therapist every week.
So you need something that we're every week or every couple weeks. You're wrong thinking is corrected. So as an example, I got a bunch of guys together in my neighborhood, different men are at the same level in life. And we all chip in for one therapist. So instead of you buying a therapist, five, six, ten of your friends can ship out a therapist. You can do that. And then we skip a few coffees a week. And then we meet every week. We've done this for probably since my, you know, seven years now.
Same almost almost the exact same group of people if you've come in and out and every week, we go in there and here's my group therapy. I think in a lot of research back to stuff actually. But research can back anything up. Is that that it works better than one on one therapy is if you're having a discussion with me or a therapist.
And I think you're wrong and disagree even though you don't have a degree, I disagree. But if that therapist and like eight of your friends, I'll say, no, man, you're wrong. You're like, I disagree, but be all say so. You're probably right. I'll consider that. So I think it's really powerful. And the other great thing is you don't have to wait every week or every two weeks to see a therapist. You're in touch with all your friends.
All the time. So so group therapy like, for example, you know, we show this pattern. So I could be in my therapy thing and start to say something like I'm starting to see this person and this is going on and right away, they're like, oh, man, you're doing that same thing. You did with your last two people, you started dating. Why don't you try this new thing. They see you so well. So deep shift.
And that's where the talk there becomes in. Then the third thing is tools to use when you're backsliding as an example. We talked earlier about how someone would I get hugged by my girlfriend and I'd start to feel that what you said that same feeling like I just felt like uncomfortable and wanted to escape. There was something called repair and things being the is like talking to your talking to your inner child or talking to yourself and I just say, hey, she's not your mom.
You can relax. I got this. I'll take care of you. She just loves you and cares about you and man accept that. So just give myself that inner monologue. And why do you think that works? The repairing or the tools the repairing part. Yeah, I think the repairing part is this. Like there's inner child's kind of like a word that if you haven't done the inner child work, just sounds like so, woo, woo. So another way to think about it is this.
When you see something that's familiar that traumatized you as a child or a teen right away, your protective mechanisms from then are going to take over. So you've got to you've got to like disengage it. And so what works is saying is works is recognizing it and saying like, no, this isn't that. This is actually okay. So you can relax and just accept.
And that's all quite unconscious isn't it? So you won't consciously know that the reason this hug with this person is giving me the like the PBG bees or the creeps whatever is because it reminds me of my mother or whatever whatever. But unconsciously that's what kind of what's going on. The old circuits are starting to fire, but you haven't had a thought yourself.
You're just experiencing a feeling. I could experience that feeling of feeling like I was trapped, but I wouldn't consciously know why you wouldn't know. No, no, of course, you would have no idea. You literally just think I'm trapped. And that's why these things all work together. So like the package the short version of it, because the long answer is deep intensive workshops, ongoing maintenance, the group of talk therapy and tools to use when all behaviors come up.
So once you've done that deep intensive workshop and recognize, oh shoot, I react like this because I'm getting flashbacks to being like suffocated by my mom or my dad. Then you're now you're conscious about what's happening. And then as you consistently use the tools, it's you, you, you get to intervene quickly. Right. So the key is like interviewing quickly. I'll give another example that a lot of people might relate to is like when you're in a conflict or your
starting to get upset about something, right. And then if you just stay there, you might start to get upset or behave in a way that you don't love. Does that make sense? Yeah. So we want to start recognizing the signs of, oh, my heart's starting to be fast or I feel like maybe there's something you're feeling your chest or in your arms for me like my arms start to get like I feel like
I feel like I don't know just sort of like a weird tension in my hands. So I feel that I'll just say they once I can be right back. I'll step back for myself back to earth and then come back and I'll never react. So I think one of our goals, I think the goal of self-improvement of this work is to be like non-reactive connected but non-reactive.
Yeah. What do you think about masturbation? I did an experiment once because like there were a lot of people who Billy Corgan from the smashing pumpkins, for example, like doesn't let his band like have an orgasm the day of a show or something like that. I think there and I'm not some director. I want to say his name wrong. I felt like there are all these kind of artists who I was talking to who by not having an orgasm felt like they could use it.
And I think Napoleon Hill and thinking, grow rich or something talks about just not letting the energy out and then kind of recycling and using for productivity in your life. And I'm sure a lot of tantric and other teachings say the same. So I tried and experiment of not doing that. I just felt horrible and I was attracted to everything. I remember watching South Park and like Cartman's mom came on and like and I felt like a roused.
I was literally like, sorry to have you live with this in. This was like in a pre-truth. Okay. So the answer is like, I don't. Maybe I'm not there yet but I have a strong. I think that as long as it's not compulsive. As long as it's not changing your healthy relationship with women or sexuality in the zone masturbation of pornography.
What's your view on pornography? I don't think it helps. Here's a let me give you a last thought of masturbation. This is like a crazy thought. I've never shared this. I'll probably regret it. I'll probably call you later ask you to cut it out. I think that everything in your life, I think you can be giving yourself a seminar in your life all the time. So maybe I'm here.
But I almost think of this training. So if I'm going to do it, I'll just think, okay, my goal is to like last longer or try to like do it twice or something. So I try to think of everything. How can I even with that? I'm like, how can I train myself to be better? Interesting. And so I'm always thinking even in my life on like, how can I. How can. So a lot of people talk about the even I mentioned this kind of cliche of the authentic self versus the false self.
And I always think like shit, what is authentic? How can I measure authentic? I don't know what's authentic. I think I'm. And I was really inauthentic. I thought I was being authentic. And I realized that a better dichotomy is the creative versus the destructive self. So like if you're watching pornography and then masturbating and like you feel better afterward, was it constructive for you or was destructive? And so trying to do things that are constructive feels right.
Is that just an excuse though for a destructive behavior? So is it. So in the context of masturbation, you're giving it some kind of purpose by saying it's the right practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, might just might just diluting myself. I'm just used this is okay. I guess the answer is like you. But you know, you know the seed by the fruit. So to see if it hurts in my relationship by sexuality or my relationship with women and things like that.
What about pornography then? Do you think pornography is is harmful? For relationships love. I guess the I guess the answer again is like it depends on how you're using it. I don't know. I haven't really thought this out in a lot of studies that show the opposite of pornography, but I think if you're.
If it's just becoming regularly and it's you're doing it too much or I'm sure you can just product me into healthy way with your partner and watching together and maybe getting turned on and then experiencing some together or mixing it up sometimes and I'm sure there ways. I think everything can be healthy and unhealthy. You can drink too much water and dye. Do you think it's natural to be faithful to one person for life?
All my research I think the person who came up with what I think is the most evolutionary argument that made the most sense was Helen Fisher. And she's a evolutionary biologist I believe and she said that she thinks it's natural to. And she studied marriage patterns divorce patterns and this changes based on a number of kids, but where she she believes were wired for seven years for.
Serial monogamy with clandestine adultery. That's what she says meeting serial monogamy means one partner at a time, but secretly cheating sometimes on the side that's how she thinks were wired. And that the average is about seven years if you have more kids that last longer meeting that's enough time for the child to grow up and kind of take care of.
And then you get to have new children with someone else in various genes that said that's like the evolutionary perspective that said I don't believe like evolution is destiny. You know what I mean? It's probably evolutionary for people to. Want to take someone's you serve someone's power and money and I don't know. I think they're all kinds of evolution and impulses that we have a prefrontal cortex that allows us to make these choices.
We had to do everything. I think you have a choice whether you want to be faithful or not. That said, fidelity is different than honesty. Meeting that I think you can be honest with your partner and for example, I know people whose partner maybe the partner went through a betta pause and sex stopped. And they had a discussion and said like I still have these sexual needs. What do I do about it? And they renegotiated the relationship.
And so I think that we can rethink a relationship. There's an ongoing discussion between two partners and probably the partner with the lowest comfort will generally win out. I talked to this one Stephanie Coons who's like the biggest expert on marriage. She wrote a book on it. And she said the history of marriage was originally it was you know for property rights and inheritance. Kids were just extra workers.
And then it was marriage for love was this radical idea. And she says now we're in this thing where it's just you know tick a box like I was at dinner the other day. And a bunch of people were there talking about their relationships and so on. So I was like well I'm going to have a kid that I'm freezing my eggs. I want to have a kid later and I'm going to do this and someone else is like I'm never I'm going to get married and fall in love and have kids.
It's like a tick a box. Do you want one partner or many? You know you want to know a lot of people are into you know ethical monogamy now. Do you want kids do not want kids. You can just check a box and decide is there were in this way where we have so much choice. Ethical non monogamy. Yeah. I didn't know that was a thing. Yes.
Some people call it consensual non monogamy or ethical monogamy but that's basically your your not monogamous with your relationship partner but your ethical meeting you're both honest about it. Yeah.
As you said earlier you went on the journey to figure out whether that stuff could work for you like polyamorous relationships swinging all of those kinds of things and you concluded that it just it can work for you. I think you remember remember you saying that you kind of wanted like a half open relationship at the time.
I think most people probably do I think that's probably coming out of like a it was me coming out of a wounded place saying that by half open me like I can do what I wanted they don't do something. I think that usually we ever says that. And I including myself at the time is probably like a wounded person like in terms of like I just want to do what I want but I want to deal with uncomfortable and you deal with those uncomfortable motions but.
But you can't do what you want because I can't deal with uncomfortable motions so so I think that the answer is.
I think there's like three entities there's you there's your partner there's a relationship and I think the right answer is something makes all three better so for example when I was in those scenes there were a lot of couples and it wasn't sometimes the woman leading the charge sometimes the guy leading the charge where one partner was letting the other partner be more open so they didn't lose them they were just silently suffering that's not good for the person or the or the relationship but I think if you can find a way where like for example.
One person in that he like he thinks is partners fabulous and other men get into should he shouldn't just get to hog all that fabulous us to himself like he wants to share that other people can get to experience that and so that's right for him and right for her and right for their relationship and you've met people that are in that sort of.
Polyamorous situation that I like really really really happy yeah and here's what's interesting that just as many people cheated polyamorous relationships is a bit of relationships I'll give you an example like one of the first people I met like maybe they have a boundary like oh you're not allowed to do this specific sexual thing with other people are not allowed to do this like they would still break they can literally do like 95% what they want in five percent is restricted and across that boundary I found just as much.
Cheating in that is monogamous and the idea being that the idea really being if you're healthy whatever relationship you choose will be healthy if you're unhealthy whatever relationships value choose will be unhealthy maybe there was something in just breaking the boundary that people find.
Some what appealing it so doesn't really matter what the boundary is but they're being one you going back to that avoidant nature of trying to stop yourself from being a bird trapped in a cage breaking a boundary as part of the thrill yeah there's someone that part of the wisest person I met I forget his full name was pepper and he had two big thoughts and one was that intentions are better than rules.
And then his second thought was your partner has to have an abundance of you before they can sort of be with other people. Explain both of those then sure the intention is like well what are intentions to honor each other to be honest to respect and to have sort of intentions which are discussion points versus well you can do that but you can't do this and behind those rules is an intention for example.
What's behind the discomfort of someone sleeping with someone else is the intention is safety I feel unsafe if you're off with someone else because I could lose you.
And so the intention maybe might be safety and maybe the other ways to get that need met you know you know as a short guy who who's like literally like five six and you know when people are always looking for someone's like six feet or over a guy you're like home man I'm like six inches below the mark I realized oh no what they want is like safety there or security being with someone feels bigger.
Stronger helps them feel safe. I'm like okay I can do safe I can't do tall but I can do safe. So so that's the idea of intentions and the idea of a partner has a abundance of you means a lot of people are like this relationship isn't working or fighting a lot like maybe we split up maybe let's try polyamory that's not going to work versus or it's just if your partner has enough sex has enough love has enough connection and then you're.
With someone else there's less of that fear because they're full your partner should be full first.
Third thing for people are considering doing this in case they're sure some people are like it's thinking maybe this will work for me is it's I think it's called the burning period which is that if you do open up a monogamous open up a relationship is probably there's a period of six months or whatever that you there's a lot of discomfort and awkwardness and it requires a lot of communication to work through it.
A lot of insecurity I imagine. Yeah our biggest fear is a child is abandonment because what happens if our parents out there we don't get milk or water or food and we die we can't take care of ourselves. And so we're fear of abandonment a great a great line from the truth is what I think about this all the time when people are scared in a relationship about being abandoned this therapist name the rain said.
Unless you're a child or dependent elder no one can abandon you except yourself and you're like you're not going to die of the person you love leaves you it's just going to hurt and suck. That's how it feels right on a psychological level it feels like we are being.
Because that that emotional reaction stems I guess right back to like I don't know being thrown off the island by our tribe or something and when we think about the physiological consequence of loneliness as well like the body completely changes we go into self preservation we don't sleep as well. Just one with and that's just one we're lonely so.
Yeah you know I think there's two sizes the bandament like a child's abandoned baby that child doesn't survive and that's obviously happened to us children historically and the other side like you said if you're kicked out of the tribe and this is why people are so fearful on social meeting all these things you're kicked out of the tribe well you can't survive on your own out of the wild. So we are afraid of abandonment and social rejection there's abandonment and social rejection loneliness.
Your your first book the game I think I think it spoke to some men who feel that way like because I think those men I think I was probably maybe I was one of them where I was a young man who wanted to figure out how to be loved and the game appeared to give me a code to that in a world where figuring out how to be loved and finding someone to love me.
It's kind of this like complicated you know thing that didn't make sense and I reflect on where I don't know how many years we were on from the game now maybe 10 years or something but in terms of. Men feeling like they understand what masculinity is and loneliness and the statistics around the amount of men that are sexless.
We've gone in a worse direction like there are more men now that feel isolated lonely that are struggling to find love and a partner we've had dating apps emerge I think since the game pretty much. The game which is confused the whole dynamic of how do I find someone that loves me where do I find them and roughly about 50% of people now meet online so there's this new generation of men and women that are struggling now to find to find that love.
It's interesting like you raise this question like why is it when we're more connected than ever that we feel more disconnected. I think that maybe one of the issues I think it's really tough to all be connected because we thought that technology would we decided the global village motion with going and stuff like that technology is going to just create a global village.
Which it did but we forgot that the village it sucked to live in the village because in the village everybody's gossiping you know if you step out of line you're at least we were saying earlier kicked out of the village everyone tries to keep everyone down because it's petty and it's jealous and if you're different or express yourself in some other way you're like an outcast.
It used to be that you know if you left high school into college or move somewhere else you get to just create a home life and now we're all in this fish bowl staring at each other and it's uncomfortable and maybe feels less safe. On top of that I think there's some statistic a few years ago that 25% of marriages start in the workplace and now you can't really date in the workplace anymore so that's kind of on the table now.
And then I think the other thing is people I noticed that on the apps people sort of have this fantasy about what they want and then they might be with someone start dating a few times and say you know that one thing's just not quite right in what I want and and there's so much abundance that they can just go back to the dating pool instead of working working it through or or or or writing it out in other words before you bet someone out you exchange phone numbers that was like exciting thing you got to the phone number.
And cash will mention I call like so we two days to call and then you call and oh my God I'm a seaman four days and you know and there's so much excitement around that and now you literally just you like you go back on one of these apps and within like 24 hours you have so many options. In your in the last two decades you've met so many people that are like struggling in relationships and love.
And I guess my question is like what advice do you give to them the people that really really are struggling and it's different issues for men and women because there's different dating dynamics and play there. So for those start with men for those young men and I've had many guests in the podcast talk to those speak of the statistics around young men and also to around the suicidality of those young men and.
I mean some of the really crazy stats are around suicide I think I've shared a few times before that in the UK alone someone dies by suicide every 90 minutes and 76% of them a male. Look at some of the other stats the number of unmarried men in the United States has increased by 50% since 1970 the number of men who are reporting that they are lonely has increased by 50% since 1980 the number of men who have had.
Sex by the age of 20 has decreased by 20% since 1990 the age men have their first kiss is now getting later and later the number of men who are reporting that they have been victims of sexual assault by another man has increased by 20%. So the stats tell a pretty horrific story and then the same the same here for women in 1970 only 13% of women over 30 were unmarried today that number is nearly 50% the divorce rate for women over 30 has doubled in the past 50 years.
And I can go on and on and on so clearly there's something going on with relationships dating. Let's let's hold two ideas one is there something going on and the other one is stats so when I wrote when I wrote the truth I went through like I started the book with these similar stats that you know fit for some marriages and a divorce but I'm like I got my start one of my stars is like a fact checker the village voice before I was like writing these books and things.
And so I'm like I just really rigorously check facts if you really dig deep you'll find that probably 50% of statistics are made up you'll literally to the degree that most of them I couldn't keep the stats because either they they never existed in one case we call the actual researcher on I think the divorce that or the infidelity stat they're like she's like I never said this this is not for my research.
My name's always attached to this that I know how to stop it so so what happens so a lot of these things first of all but I think the sense of all this is very true I be slow to jump on a stat it's funny I did a piece for Rolling Stone on Elon Musk and some of the thing happened where I told the statistic he's like I have to see how they did that study for I could even comment on it.
That said I think we're in a crisis I think what we're speaking of is that like we were really like there's a there's a real mental health crisis and if you think about when you were a kid like often to do have doctors appointments. Gosh not often but maybe maybe twice a year.
I think twice a year and have dentist appointments the same I think twice a year and often you have like therapist or psychologist appointments exactly right and that's our culture our culture is your teeth better look great.
Got to make sure everything physically is fine but no concern for mental health now teaching mental health no so we have no foundation to build on and then we get to our age where all those wiring all those parents are set and either and then if we want to heal we better have a lot of money because it's a rich persons game to heal because insurance and nothing covers it so like we really want to work on this and again like if I could be sort of a crusader maybe I should be I don't
maybe I need to be is it would be for taking like mental health as seriously as we take physical health because guess what obviously stress leads to all kinds of diseases and also so many so much self harm and other harm are related to obviously mental health issues and then we have this
idea that we all have some sort of mental health issue you know like everyone does and if you don't think you have a mental health issue there's something going on you know looking the mirror we're still we're all wounded from the way we were raised so so we really need to get the culture and system to take mental health the series as they take all the rest of education.
We're clearly just finding out it's just to meet each other as well. Yeah there's a great there's a Japanese writer and cobo Abe any who wrote this woman in the dunes which is a great book and movie he has this great line he says like he was we're wired for this tribal existence and the city is the first place where we had a meat
stranger that's not an enemy and we're still not used to that strangers are scary I think most people people are scary I mean even now back in the dating thing I'm like I'm meeting someone on a app and I don't know who they are like before if I met someone they're kind of in my scene or in my peer group or somehow we share these interests but there's just a random person on
the app that literally like maybe they're scammer right. Are you even that phase now where you're dating again yeah how's it going and what's what's new in terms of like since last time you were in the in a dating phase of your life let's see I just ended like a like a short but serious relationship which was interesting
and I would yeah I guess what's new is just the things we things we talked we talked about I think I'm with my son like Friday is to Mondays so so it's hard I think it's hard for someone who's not a single parent or doesn't have a child sort of understand that maybe I'm less available you can wreck one of two ways when you're
getting older right you can go by a flashy car and start dating like you know people who feed or ego and you can just feed or you go till you're dead and that seems like a horrible way to go I remember my first time in L.A. like when I moved L.A. I was this like nightclub and there was this guy in a wheelchair with a older with a mass debris he was like very old like 70 or 80 I don't know he was he was at death door and he was around
at least like to like you know very plop young plastic surgery if we have had a random and like oh man like you know I don't know whether to feel sorry for him or what but I was like oh that's that's like that's I guess that's his life choice and good for him you know some so you can kind of chase that validation he liked dating multiple women he liked women competing over that felt good when there was drama like it made him feel wanted so you can
live that basically you're living out of your unhealed wounds right you can either live out of your unhealed wounds or you can sort of heal your wound and see what else am I here to heal or what else am I here to do what's going to what are the few things that make me happy and a few things I can contribute I've got close friends of mine that and feel somewhat similar from conversations we've had with them where they're in a relationship with someone
and it's almost like they're torn into two pieces it kind of takes me back to that maybe the start of your journey into the truth which is they love this person but at the same time they just can't stop the urge to be with to either cheat or think about other people or to text other people etc and they're almost tormented by it yeah I know some people that are like really tormented by that yeah then you have to look at
yourself and I just all the time is what parts coming out of a wound and what parts like authentic right so there's one part where yeah other people are attractive like if you're in a relationship and you find other people attractive or hot or like might even think someone's a better match for you like that's healthy you still have eyes you still have a
little bit and it takes the right person what's that does it take the right person in your view to make you commit what takes you being the right person it takes you 100% takes you be the right person and even to the degree that you're going to attract people you're going to track someone who's at your level of growth and self-esteem so like literally everyone who has that list of this is what I'm looking for like make that list for
yourself and become that person and then you'll meet that person that's like just 100% true and but but then the other side like you said then there's a part where it's agonizing where it's like oh god I I mean I can speak from experience that once I did all that work we talked about the truth I was like really happily monogamous with anger like I didn't look at other people I didn't chase that other stuff like everything was clean what changed what change was I wasn't afraid of going
deeper into intimacy anymore meaning that that like who like I would just look at her and I wasn't I just had walls up they kept me from getting closer that I've really loving her and really accepting her so you can either do the work with another person to do the work against that person
is acting out and fantasizing in your head and resenting or the other one thing is you can work on yourself and work on how can I get deeper with them and how can I learn to accept them and how can I realize the issues I have with them have nothing to do with them there's a saying pretty sure
it's a saying but that all relationship issues are historical it's not about them it's about something that happened mom or dad and the things are trying to change and fix were things that you needed from your parents how important you think it is to be completely honest in a relationship
I your partners should have the pin for your mobile phone or there should be no pen on your mobile phone that complete honesty were they are able to see and know everything yeah good great great great question I think the ultimate balance is they have the
good for your mobile phone but they never use it checking our partners mobile phone behind their back is the form of cheating and I think a relationship needs both honesty and trust to work honestly means one partner being honest with other partner just trusts it's going to go just as badly do you think that if you cheat on someone and they and they never find out do you think what is the harm to you so if you if you cheat on someone the harm to you is all of a sudden you've taken a
relationship and you just like drove a cleaver through it and now you're living in a separate world and they are you can't get back to the same intimacy that you had before because intimacy is showing who you are your vulnerabilities is someone else being accepted right then you're lying in bed if they get about that other person you're worried about them texting you start being a bit different little differently around your partner they sense that and they feel
like something's wrong maybe it's wrong with them and they behave different sets it sets off a whole you know invisible chain into motion and you can have a little authentically connect whilst you're cheating on someone if you're cheating on them you can never really it's not a real
connection is it hiding your hiding compartmentalizing something so people are so good they hide it from themselves you know there's a great line this is also from Rick Rubin he said it's in the book so he said I don't trade long term happiness for short term pleasure I've been trade long term happiness short term pleasure interesting right it's really good and I hear it so I get became with the mind of this
which is in terms of guys like you and I and other mesh and women to who feel trapped in their relationship is I recognize that they're not keeping me from sleeping with anyone else I can actually go ahead and sleep with whoever I want I really can't I'm there I can never want but I have to be honest and accept the consequences so if sleeping with that person is more important than my relationship I'm free to sleep with them
it's actually my choice so no one's being you're nothing made to do or forced to do anything it's all your choice you just have to accept the consequences that well that sex with that person better be more important than your relationship and so you can still no one's keeping you from doing anything you made an agreement if you don't like that agreement then make a different agreement for your relationship
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you wrote Rick Rubens book but you also you wrote Kevin Hartz book yeah what did you learn about Kevin Hart oh man I love like and I he's he's wanted like I learned a lot from him he's really one of my like favorite people like what you see he what you see is what you get he is who he is
this and this is like more of a business thing but he has no resistance he goes he does have resistance to everything meaning that we have a plan we want things to work out and there's an obstacle the Adrien Holiday and the obstacles the way there's an obstacle or someone's just being difficult to work with or whatever it is he just takes the call deals with it hangs up and he doesn't get into the story about it and so I don't know if it makes sense because I haven't seen this like written
anywhere as a principle but when things go wrong or there's something he has to do that he doesn't want to do he doesn't have resistance to anything he just does it rolls through it and moves on and he doesn't think I'm like one of the biggest actors and comedies in Hollywood why don't we have to deal with this he just deals with it doesn't procrastinate he doesn't procrastinate he gets it done he does stuff himself he doesn't play mothers for
bothering him he really is like and he's he has a strength of positivity he's even if he's I've seen it like quote unquote yell at his kids but he's so positive in accepting when something happens we get right into a victim place right away right away we think why me or God why do I have to deal with this this is supposed to be like this and he doesn't have that story and he just does it and going back to how we're raised
he was raised with a very strict mom and like you know and he applies that strictness into his life as a discipline and it works what about Rick Rick Rubin what about learn man I mean that book the creative act I originally didn't plan to write it I just said I'll do all the interviews for the book and you can find a writer because I don't want to you know friends and it's okay like you you define the right person for your book
I just want to do all the interviews because I wanted to learn from him because he's produced but everyone Kanye JC like Beastie boys run DMC like Johnny Cash and he's so wise and so I just wanted to learn from him and this is what I think the main thing I learned it's in the book I'm not trying to make a book be something I'm almost listening to the work and trying to hear what it wants to be so I really learned to take the ego out of the creative process
and surrender to the moment and understand there's something being called into existence that's not about me and I'm just trying to guide it there and not get in the way and it was a whole new way of thinking it wasn't an art of centered form of creation it was an art centered form of creation
interesting yeah if you're making a book or your podcast or whatever else it's you kind of get you out of the picture to allow the thing to become what it wants to become yeah as an example the truth was going to be like against monogamy and trying to maybe create a new form of
a mayor of relational and marriage that works better because as you were saying earlier it's all broken but instead if you came a book about you and my own trauma and I sort of listen to that and that's why maybe the book's impactful but it goes back to what we were saying early you said the first point of what they were calling a sex addiction was humility yeah or anything and that's it and it's really having humility in the face of the universe
there's so many other great points in that book one of his great lines and there is about and this is great true it's true of bands his business relationships you know people getting conflicts so do you have a like a business partner do you kind of get all yourself oh wait yeah I used to have a business partner and my previous business yeah and he said if you're disagreeing on things and not saying things the same way that's great
because if you both think alike in a partnership and want the same things and want to do things the same then one of you is unnecessary so true yeah so true we were successful in our business relationship because we were so fundamentally different
so there was never a crossover yeah and we knew each other's responsibilities were you could a piece of work could come in and we wouldn't have to speak we knew who's job that would be yeah based on skill set yeah it's great and you're able to do that when you and not everyone can do that
you know they're like it's it's a hard thing for them what's your mission now in life like you're you've done so much you've you know you've been successful in so many areas of your life what are you aiming at now yeah it's interesting and it's funny man when I was like a kid when I was a like in college my whole goal there was a newspaper called the village voice which was like the cool Miss paper in New York I just wanted to write for the village voice it was like
you know the center of the arts scene and the culture and I started writing for them when I was like in my early 20s and everything that's it was really my life goal and everything's been a bonus and I really think in terms of projects like I was thinking before your show I was looking at your podcast thing it was like the relationship expert the sex expert this expert the number one this and I was thinking what do I do or what am I and I believe I have the saying like
that don't brand yourself like let the world try to brand you while you keep moving forward and I really just think in terms of projects so I have no goal other than I want the next project I'm working on I just want to do really great at it and share it and then move on to the next project that I'm really excited about the difficulty with labels is we pick them up when we are successful at something
yeah and then we get stuck yeah I mean how many people do we know that it's better say the health industry where someone's like they stake their health reputation on some something that's really true in the moment and now maybe the research has changed and then they're still they don't want to lose their audience though they're saying something that maybe they don't even believe anymore because we grow when we evolve and if you label yourself as something well man it's hard to move on
and so we have to be really care I think we have to be really careful of that some people other way there's certain people they have just one mission and that's their mission and they and that's great for them and they're people like you and I who are very growth oriented who keep changing like you had one identity before this podcast you have a completely new one and I know doubt that in like five seven years maybe that was that saying seven years on all our sales recycle
we're completely new they're going to be doing something equally amazing and unexpected and cool what's that been what was that like for you because your book was so successful the game it was so successful so you become the game guy
yeah yeah and my thought was if I thought was okay I have to do something else that strikes people so powerfully become the whatever guy yeah it was still like okay what can I do logically that's what I would think I think I just have to do something bigger and they'll make me for that
and then there are other people are still doing that you were literally people in that book the game who are out there still doing the same thing and with a book it's not like a social media post where it just kind of falls off the timeline yeah it's selling every day yeah and you're really fortunate to be thought of as by other people as the whatever yeah yeah I can never even I know there's anything yeah so it's like I'm really grateful for it and I'm like how can I
what what's next again going back to Rick Rubin his thing as soon as you finish a work and you here for the quick once you share it you just move on to whatever's next why was it so resonant that book the game in your view I don't know it's a weird thing was really out of my control and it's funny because I really feel the books I feel like you get the book like to be I was really writing about mail-in security
like it isn't a book about like like you were saying you were lonely you felt disconnected you didn't know how to connect that's what you said right yeah it was like getting I mean it was the girls at school I like I didn't know why that dude over there was really successful with them
and I was less successful than that guy over there and I didn't realize that there was this whole kind of psychology about my like posture and how I could present myself and honestly one of the big things that I came to learn I don't think I've ever said this before was at 18 years old I was very unsuccessful with the women that I wanted so whenever I wanted someone I couldn't get them right I didn't mean I couldn't get you know
like I didn't mean I couldn't get you know I wanted to be a girlfriend whatever but whenever I want it them I couldn't get them right which is obviously quite quite annoying so there's like five people at girlfriend's in a row that I wanted and I couldn't get any of them I could get other people I was doing fine I don't want to make it seem like I wasn't doing fine I was doing fine and I was wondering why that was and then reading about the psychology of the game
and understanding that there's this sort of social proofing thing and I portray my value to people in everything that I do how I speak, how I hold myself, how desperate I am, whether I lean in in conversations and pack them, and how to just be a little bit more composed. Right, which you do very well by the way. Now I do. Yeah, maybe lots of much then.
And then I saw this really interesting thing, which was by 25 years old, when I was actually secure in myself, my mannerisms all changed naturally. And I fell more in line to what in the game you referred to as a natural. Yeah. And I was in like, I did the high valley things naturally. And then I was successful. Yeah, because I think it was like a real shallow path to like self-improvement or self-esteem. Yeah. And it is nothing. And I think it's interesting.
I felt like the, I think it did well, because I think of the culture things as if it was like the douchebag's Bible or something like that. And for me, it was really like about mail and security and that feeling less than. And then sort of finding this very shallow path. And also like it's a path and going the wrong direction. If you keep like you did, you, the goal is to become a natural mechal of all those things.
Almost like when we're, someone's there in a play to paint or play tennis or whatever it is, they're following the form and then let go and step into who they are. Yeah. And then I lost a mat. I didn't need any funnily enough. I didn't need any tips or tricks or strategies or little games, whatever, when I was securing myself. Yes. What's the book you'd write then instead? If like if the goal is to get to a place where you're securing yourself, what is the, who, what kind of book would that be?
Yeah. I mean, I think there couldn't be any other book because that was the path, a, that was the path I took. And be like a somehow I thought female validation would get me there when it really needed to be my own validation. Yeah. Like how do we get, that's what I'm saying. I'm going to book on our own validation. Yeah, yeah. I think, I think it's, there's a couple great books on that. But I also think there's no shortcuts to this stuff.
Like again, blessings to everyone who does plant medicine and I'm not against plant medicine anyway. But I think like, like you can't just, I don't think again, there are plenty of exceptions to everything I'm saying. But I think like two in one, Iawaska, like Journey, he is not going to, you know, are doing one of the workshops that I do in the Hoffman process, they're doing anything that we all wear this culture where we want these shortcuts. But like, it's always that long cut.
It was like the many year journey per, the many year journey we went on to, to figure the stuff out is where we got there. So I think maybe there's no other path other than one we took. And it was a shorter path we went to got there. That's exactly what I think I, I wish, I think men, specifically like young dissolution single men that are like looking for love and not having much success need now is a book about the long cut. The long route. There is the long cut to get there.
We'll have you next book, the long cut. Oh, and gross. Yeah. I'm not an expert on the subject matter and I have to write about it. But like, what does the long cut look like? Because the long cut to self-esteem is like going to the gym, working on yourself, working on your mental health, being of service, to society, friendships, emotional expression, those kinds of things. We just did a table of contents here, but we're getting there. No, but I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I don't even know.
Like that List You Gaze is really great. And it's funny with my son who's in the end of the rule, we have Sunday, service days, and we do something of service. Because I think that's like that. I love that you mentioned that. Like we try to do something. So I think those, I think, I think it's true that it's really a combination of stuff.
And some people just look at one path, it is a little bit of all those different components of working on your psychological health, feeling like, why do I feel less than? What was the thing? What's great about like the stuff in your past, looking at your childhood, is you see that it's not you. I always thought it was just me, like somehow I'm not enough.
And then I realized, oh no, I feel like not enough because these experienced, you know, my mom calling me all these different names, I internalized that and thought that's who I was. And I can say, oh that's not who I am and now I get to change. So it's nice to look back and see how these seas were planted. So we can say, oh that's not me, that was just some programming. And then I can run a virus scan on myself, right? And quarantine the virus.
So I think like the long cut to self esteem is figuring out why, what those reasons are, and then working on them, and then all those different components you said. I think the easiest step is being other oriented instead of self-oriented. Being of service, instead of saying, I expect everyone to make me feel good. How can I make others feel good? And how can I make my job as to feel good about myself? There's a great line, I mentioned PMLity earlier who's a this amazing therapist and author.
She says like self esteem should come from the inside out, not seeking it from the outside in. And so like you said, you can go into gym, I think doing something physical, you know, like doing something meaningful, having friendship, social relationship connection, all those things, having, looking at those different areas of your life and keeping them full,
and then looking at the things that are destructive in your life, how often are you doomed scrolling, you know, how often are you comparing yourself to others, how often are you chasing things you don't really want, if you like, you should want, and all those other things. Your son comes to you at 21 years old and says, Dan, I'm struggling. I'm single, I'm lonely, nobody's interested in me. Women aren't interested in me. Which book do you pass him, the Game of all the truth?
Yeah, good, good question. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, first of all, he probably would never, I feel like, I don't know. I don't know, I feel like the game, maybe I give him neither. I don't know, maybe I sort of just talk to him and listen. Yeah, I feel like he almost have to read both to like get it, because the game can be seductive in itself. But also the game's not a, the game doesn't necessarily end well, even within the game for the pickup artists.
Yeah, so I don't know which I give him, maybe I talk to him. Those characters from the game, do you know where they are in their lives? Yeah, you do. Yeah, yeah, I talk, I like, I, I suffer from history who's out there doing his thing, doing workshops in Europe right now, I think. Yeah, it's funny, like a lot of people still do it, or going through just still be a man, doing a man right, going in and out of the way.
Interesting. And how, like, I think it's hard how we stop doing ourselves, if ourselves isn't serving us. So you will be writing a third book in this series, I know you've written many, many, many books, but a third installment of Neil's kind of journey in love. Yeah, or, or, or maybe not. Back to the idea, like, it feels natural that I do the next installment, because that's what I do, but how often we trap what we've done before. Yeah. Like lately, I've been doing these podcasts. True crime.
These true crime podcasts that I'm, feel like I'm hopefully helping people in making a difference and storytelling in another way and trying to like, help people locally. So, so maybe I don't do that, but I don't know. We talked about labeling. Yeah. And that's kind of linked in with identity. What do you, what do you want to be known for? And I think this is an interesting question, because I think if someone asked me that, there's like a bullshit answer. Right.
And then there's probably like the truth. Like if I could choose what people knew me for, I would be known for the businesses that I've built. Yeah. I, I guess the podcast as well, but for me, like, I'm, I have a preference towards that part of my identity for some reason. Yeah. What about you? Yeah. I mean, I really like, I always, I always want the books to be known more than me. Like I like, you'll notice in the books, my picture's not on them or anything like that.
I don't like, I really want the books to be known. So, just, I guess I would like it like, oh, that's a new Neil Strauss thing. I can't wait to read it or listen to it or watch it. Just, I just want to be known as like, oh, he does something that's worth noticing or reading or paying attention to. So, but this is a writer or storyteller or something. But, but really like, I'd rather the projects be known. Like the new podcast series I'm doing, which is different than the rest.
Like my head, I'm just thinking, I just want it to be awesome and people to be like really excited by it. Like, and I think I'm just always thinking about the next project. And, I can't wait for it to come out and like, have an impact and- When's it coming out? I think January. I'll say about it offline, it's crazy. Really? Yeah, it's crazy.
Because when I saw you were doing a true crime podcast, I thought, does that mean you're like reading out stories from cases that were, you know, a couple of years ago or something? Yeah. Okay. I'm a big true crime fan, so you think I listen to you? Oh, my God. Okay. So, I don't listen to any of the genre. I don't even listen to this podcast. Right. I don't know.
Um, we have a close and traditional in this podcast where the Laskas leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're leaving it for. The question left for you is, describe a moment in your life when uncertainty was dominant. How did you navigate this uncertainty? And how did it change you? After 9-11. And then after Hurricane Katrina, I think we had a certain thing in Americans that we felt we were just Americans not touchable or something like that. Nothing bad happened.
And then when 9-11 happened and we responded in the way we did as a country and felt like the whole world hated American terrorists. And you know, the yellow red, all these alert levels. And when Hurricane Katrina happened and some bodies floating down the street in American city, and here was a disaster, the government knew it's coming and there's nothing we could do about it. I think I felt this existential uncertainty, which is like, which everybody feels now, by the way.
The whole world feels it now because no one trusted the system, no one trusted the government. But this was like, it felt new then. It's crazy how now everybody feels this way. And certainly I felt was like, fuck, you can't rely on the system to protect you. You're on your own. Is that why you wrote the book about prepping? Prepping, yeah, that's how I wrote the book about prepping. And then what I did was... Prepping is basically preparing for the worst possible day.
So like, Doomsday or I don't know, like a weld or a nuclear bomb. So you start stockpiling in your house. Stuff that will mean that you can survive on your own. Yeah, learning kind of survival skills. So I guess the way I felt that existential uncertainty and way I did that was two of the things that would allow me to feel safe and give me peace of mind. So the idea is when I feel the uncertainty, I try to take the steps that give me peace of mind and are constructive and not de-structive.
Sometimes it feels like we're in such an uncertain time that people do things that are giving them peace of mind that are destructed to themselves or others, like all a lot of hatred and division and things like that. But recognizing that uncertainty may be coming from within.
So what I did, I guess, I guess, I guess the answer is when I feel the uncertainty, I go on a journey that becomes a book, whether that was the game that's certainty about dating relationship to the truth or uncertainty about the world, this emergency. And are you still a prepper? I'm prepped. But at the same time, I also recognize there's only so much you can prep for. You know what I mean?
We don't know when these disasters are coming and we don't know how it's going to come or what it's going to look like. We had a pandemic, so we think we're apparently an ex-pandemic, but the next thing that's going to happen is nothing we're ready here, we're concerned for. So I think the best thing you can do is be mentally prepared for the unknown in crisis situations. But I did get a second passport and all those things in case I need to get my family to safety.
So second passport, maybe it's the answer. Neil, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for writing the truth, because this book has certainly helped me to, such before we start recording, there was a part of this book where you describe a bird in a cage. And that's exactly how I felt. And then you go on to reframe that notion to make me understand that I'm not trapped in a cage and that I am consciously making a choice to be in the relationship that I'm in.
And at any point, if I wanted to leave, I can. And for me, that idea in this book is part of the reason that I've been in a wonderful, successful relationship for the last four years, that is enriched in my life. So thank you so much for that. Your writing style has always been something I've admired so much. And even when I became an author, I remember that being front of mind, that you were able to take me on these incredible journeys. And in through the journeys, I learned something.
And that's how I've aspired to write. We can do a whole other podcast another time about your writing ability, because that is profound. And evidenced by the fact you've written Rick Rubin's book, which is behind me, and Kevin Hart's book, and many others that people don't know about. So thank you for the inspiration. It means a lot to me, and thank you for your generosity. Thank you. I'm excited for where your journey takes you and have the next conversation on Parenting. I look forward to it.
Thank you. Thank you. A quick word on Hewl. As you know, there are a sponsor of this podcast, and I'm an investor in the company. After years and years and years and years of work, and literally, I remember being in the boardroom about two to three years ago at Hewl, when they were working on this product, finally, Hewl have nailed the complete nutrition bar. Honestly, it's been one of the most popular conversations at Hewl for the last three years.
How do we make a bar that is nutritionally complete that has 27 minerals and vitamins, and that is low in sugar, taste good. I would have more of them to show you how they're not eating them all. They arrived at the office yesterday, and my team just scoffed them all down. And the last one, you can see it's actually ripped here, because as one of our team members went to eat it, someone shouted, no, we need that tomorrow for the Hewl ad. Check it out.
I know people loving Hewl greens at the moment, because you guys have just plastered my DMs, asking for Hewl greens in the UK. But in the meantime, before Hewl, daily greens comes to the UK, you've got to check out the bars they've just dropped, because they are delicious. Do you need a podcast to listen to next? We've discovered that people who liked this episode also tend to absolutely love another recent episode we've done. So I've linked that episode in the description below.
I know you'll enjoy it. Rehearsals for the school play were really coming along. Bigger smile, Mr. Squirrel. Until a custodian accidentally threw away the costumes. Oh no. Everyone was rattled. Miss Gertie forgot how to play. And the queen of the hedgehogs almost quit. Find a new queen. But replacement costumes were shipped with FedEx, and with added peace of mind from picture proof of delivery, everyone can focus on the perfect opening night.
FedEx, where now means next for residential delivery only.