Hey everybody, welcome back to the dealership. Fix it podcast today. I have the distinct pleasure of interviewing Frank J O'Connell from jump. First think fast that's a book you're going to want to to check out. I'll give you a teaser, there's motorcycle things in it. There's a motorcycle brand things in it. So you're gonna want to check
that out. Frank, I won't read the laundry list right now, but I really appreciate you jumping on and and sharing some of your Insight and some of the years of experience you had Ultimately in and around the motorcycle space. Thanks for coming on. Well, thank you, Brian. It's a great to be here chatting with you. Well, I've appreciated. I learned about your book. I think I told you through a LinkedIn.
What group, for Forum, it's funny how we how we learn about things these days, you know, it's a ever-evolving, I guess. But thought interesting, what's that all about a business book? That includes stuff about a brand in the motorcycle business? I want to read about that and I immediately ordered the book Got it and I'll tell you, there's a whole lot more in depth in the book that I love beyond that, but you left it as the cherry on the top, its way toward the end
of the book. Good. If you wouldn't mind would you, would you give the dealership Fix-It listeners? A little bit of a recap. I know, you know, it's a life, a lifetime's worth, but would you mind giving little bit of a recap of who Frank J O'Connell is Yeah, sure. First, I have led the most fun career that I could possibly imagine and, and it's been a
career of consing learning. As I point out in the book, constantly taking risks to grow, kind of personally and professionally and businesses, the common thread in the lot of what I've done is, understanding the consumer. So as you see, I move of from food on men development of products and working for a very large food, companies in managing plants and all all of that stuff. And then they made a big jump in a went to Toys.
And I spent time at the tell, you know, learning product development and then the video game business and then I did a startup video game company which was backed by 20th Century Fox film Corporation and then eventually jump to HBO and ran the Did video cassette operation and then did they turn around of Skybox that trading card company and then greeting cards turning
around Gibson, greetings. But then early are on I was asked to go to Reebok and that's when reback was really getting beat up by a Nike. And I oversaw the development of the pump and in a really known for taking the risk on this bungee jumping commercial So which you'll see in the book where we have a you know a Nike and Reebok bungee jumper.
And when they jump up this burgeon Oregon only the Reebok jumper comes back up and of course the Nike shoes are empty and oh my God everybody went berserk one of the Network's refused to run it and we got more publicity out of that than anything we could we could have done. But that's kind of been my, you know, taking, you know, taking risks and doing Turn Around. As I is, I have mentioned the greatest job in my life was really at Union motorcycle.
First, I have been a motorcycle enthusiastic for probably over 50 years as has been my wife, who immediately when I was dating her picture up and she has written your own bike and we're probably unusual and that we have written thousands of Mild every year for 50 years, all over the us, where we have a group called The American flyers.
And we have a Blog, but then also riding all over Europe, Etc. But then also have had tons of Power Sport vehicles in nine hours live in Vermont and I've guy just in building a new barn to house them but because of you that's a good problem to have, or haven't. You could never have enough. That might think oh not another fire button. Yeah, I've got them all lined up here. So we have loved Power Sports and motorcycling has been a huge part of our life. So I was asked knowing about 2,000.
If I would take a look at turning around Indian, which had already gone through one, turnaround which had been backed by Summerfield jobs and head of Coca-Cola Bottling Company, and he had run through about 100 million dollars really needed. Professional help. They had bought a company called California Motorcycle company, which was really a customized Harley shop, and not really didn't possess the OEM engineering, that was really necessary to build the quality
brand. So, anyway, I went in and I spent five years raising money and, you know, really trying to take Indian to a professional much more, professional high quality level. It's not only a big part of that and I will Brian asked questions a lot more questions, but was really the dealer Network, and I am a huge advocate in students of the powers for dealership Network.
You know, I've lived all over the country, I've been in and out of all sorts of dealerships, I've studied it, we did a lot of research at Indian on what constituted a, you know, a profitable dealership with the right customer.
Her relationships Etc. And as I was saying to Brian, you as a manufacturing spend all this time, perfecting your, your motorcycle, your product, and then the prettiest thing that happens is often a breakdown that the point where the consumer touches the product and that is, of course the dealer, the dealer Network. So at Indian, we spent a lot of time trying to Define, you know, who would be great dealers, how do we help them doing a lot of Analysis and what computed to
their practice early, a lot of customer service Etc. And all I have to say with that. It's a wonderful experience. I'd love nothing better than to walk into a dealership and they wait and I see how long it takes for somebody you approach and
and then I start my analysis. And of course as you guys know, the shop in the back of your a motorcyclist, you know, we're riding thousands of miles that shopping that mechanic I want to No because I want to know him and of course you know all the accessories and everything else but I'm going to stop there and
let Brian fire away. So you know there's there's so many different directions, my mind starts going as we talk about this but yes in and you obviously been an Enthusiast of motorcycles, it's funny to me compared to some other areas of what's considered dealership whether it's Automotive or some of these other spaces. There's such an Enthusiast driven variable to the Dealership businesses.
That's an area where I sometimes am at odds because I understand that the person who runs a dealer if you know if they were talking about an individual operator principle of a dealership if they're the ones they're at the helm of this space to, you know, to walk in and somehow encourage them to follow suit, hey, you're representing this brand in your Marketplace but I know a lot of times, the Enthusiast driven part of it and their own personal branding I of their
dealership. I think sometimes those two things are at odds from from my my years of walk in and out of dealerships throughout the country you know, to old days to now. And I would love sort of that perspective on how how a dealership can potentially walk. That line prop I say properly right we're talking about folks who didn't purposely didn't go to work for IBM to get a salary in a job. That's consistent in that way, they signed up to build a business in these cases.
So do you have Sort of perspective on that. Yes. And, you know, probably a bunch of aspects which I think probably your audience will, you know, you're understand, you know, if you're and you know, an oem manufacturer, you have a brand, just you want your dealers to be incredibly knowledgeable, you know, of your product and you want them to be as passionate Passionate about your brand and is emotional about your brand as they are
about their dealership. So, you know, that's kind of where, you know, the line is instantly, are they advocate of dealers building Community? I love it when their dealer really works at their destination location for people to come and spend time and talk, you know, and provide some
community. You know in the end understanding and being passionate about the brands that they're selling in being incredibly knowledgeable about them to me, is critical because typically, I'm going to the dealer first because I already know a fair amount about the product, but I'm going to the dealer because I want a first-hand experience with it Etc and A1 coming to really talk. Talk to me in depth about it and also to help me analyze my skills and desires and defect to
the brand. So, and I understand, you know, the difficult line of selling you're deficient versus selling the brand so and walking that line. So yeah, it's um, you know, we're definitely there there asked and I guess any dealership does that. But like I say as compared to like a automotive, you know, I think they don't tend to To be like we are maybe it's got to do with the tattoos per square inch.
I saw your reference in the in the book at one point that's a beautiful thing CNC there in California but you know I think that's the I think the line of you don't know until you go there you know, do I feel like this this dealership is only in the case of an Indian if they're if they're Indian more than
their local, are they not doing? Like you say the events and those sort of things that might be a good point to touch on when you were Doing that market research, you know, between Harley and Indian. A lot of those I know from my perspective Harley had been in potentially is now one of the ones still leaning the most on expectations, their dealers, to do events and to try to build that Community. I feel like they've done a great job through the years.
Are you seeing or the? Are they all upping their game when you get to go and call on them as a sort of a regular consumer with with just massive amounts of background information in your head when you walk in?
Well, and you can re steer me, but I was a couple of things that I want to hit here that came out of the research, a lot of the research but a lot of our experience on the floor with dealers and selling is one, you know, when we really went into an extensive program relative to our dealers, relative to test, riding the bikes and We also like it if they had a rental program as well, because what we found was, if we could get their butts in the seat, they buy the bike.
And about, I'll give you a whole audience for Indian Indian had, you know, it's a, it just an iconic brand with a great romantic pass. And what we found was, there was this big light which we call it? It's familiar to you born again. Bikers, they were motorcyclists in there, you know, early days than they had a family and they stopped motor.
They stopped the motorcycling. Now, their family is grown and they walk into a dealership Austin, you know, with their wife or partner and when we saw, they got on the seat of that motorcycle, went for a ride, making back every there.
You know, their partner saw a smile on their face, they had not seen in years, so, you know, that's just kind of an example of, you know, some of the important techniques that we had learned now, actually, the community writing as well in The Saturdays and the hot dogs and whatever are also important. But I mean we really find the demo rides were Really critical.
And I, you know, we actually made quite a deal with eagle Rider which was then just a brand new company to actually run the Indian to get more people. Having that experience at getting there but I'm happy to see. So yeah, I don't know if there's anything sort of more important you know. I guess just like at the showroom level, right? Although they may not all go right to that level and I'm a huge proponent of demo rides or like you're saying rental.
Programs that obviously do the same the same thing, but just even getting somebody to sit on the bikes, you know, that that's like that next level of putting them behind the bars. You know. There it's a level of ownership that these different phases of it. They've walked in. Okay, that's one level, you know, they're here. And obviously they're interested at some level. Huge, huge proponent of it.
You know, I think in one of your stories, you talked about the, the early Indians and, and sort of some of those issues with reliability. Let's call it that they had. And, and on the line changes that occurred, which is funny to me, because I've worked at dealerships and had Brands who are without naming a name, a solid, you know, big huge selling brand of top brand in the industry right now. But when I was working at a dealership, let's call late
90's, early 2000's. I'd go to look up a particular Microfiche for someone and it would say like I had to have the exact Vin and here was the different parts for each of the different spreads of in and obviously with that metre and they made production changes, you know, right in the middle and and I'd order the part and roll the dice. Did I get it right? I had the right Vin but it's right part arrived, so you call a lot of that out in the, in changing of the brand, that that consistency.
In that sort of, that less enthusiastic more. Motorcycle parts assemblers on the line? Yeah, I have to think, you know, that's sort of just what happened over time. Do you feel, like, what's the next phase for these sort of these manufacturers from here, is it? I mean, they can, they make the
bikes? You know, obviously it's going to switch to a different fuel source or maybe an array of different fuel sources and these sort of things that are all question marks, but I feel like they've really a lot of these top brands of really dialed all that in by now. Yeah, they I mean you have to I think to really feel the quality product and have this reputation and also so you're not spending a lot of time, rebuilding bikes in the field under warranty.
I mean that was one of our problems, we get huge warranty costs because we were rebuilding a whole bunch of the initial bikes that were built that head-tracking Thunders and, you know, in all sorts of other things. But I think quite frankly, I would go and hire people. I'll go over those, you know, a Harley Or find someone who really had that experience in that quality experience.
But you know issue and I went in the book is we had way too many suppliers in vendors and you couldn't control them. And if you weren't producing enough of a individual part, you were going to be, you know, important enough to them. But if you had some problems with some piece of the front end and you had to go to ten separate vendors that sorted
out, you know? Versus in the automotive and other Industries, you know, they have a single source of supply, all of those components and they take full responsibility, every subcontractor in there with that was, but I but I think the big, you know, I think your big Brands now have pretty much sorted that one, get their Crosstown, their manufacturing, get their quality up in their customer passion up. So I think a lot of that's gotten sorted out.
How can those things sort of things be overlaid on to a dealership, Fix-It audience, you know, people that work in and around dealerships. This is the most basic thing that I've carried throughout in number one is understanding the consumer, having an in-depth understanding of the consumer other product and how they're using it, you know, to, to start within, then you kind of go from there, you know, in terms of how you're dealing with the mutt, you're recommending what
products you're recommending. Do them. And eventually the service, you know, excetera and that's where kind of you build a trust. I'm going to give you one example, proof. One of the fastest growing segments in the motorcycle Market is females, and one of the biggest things we saw in dealers was they were when a woman walked in the door. They really didn't know how to deal with her. And, you know, how to approach and they were, it was intimidating for what?
You know, initially now I think a lot of that's gotten better, I think dealers are really gotten on top of, you know, having people in their dealership who really understand and can you know and can sell to women and women can really trust, you know, trust their judgment but just other piece here in just in terms of getting, you know, getting all of the everything behind you is really. We getting you people together. What I try to do is number one encouraged.
Even in a dealership, get a strategic plan together. What is your path? How are you unique?
What unique services are you going to provide what you'd be really the what do you want the culture, the dealership to be and then really getting your people together and to really discuss that in get them, let them contribute to the You're really get everybody on board in terms of really, you know, what is unique about you and what's the real service that you're really providing that customer when they walk in the door.
So you know I'm just you know, to me that is absolutely critical to success and preparing today's environment having employees that really Ali were you all are aligned in believe in what you're doing and that there's some some degree of passion there for, you know, the product and the dealership. So anyway, that's you know, I that's good. Basic message, okay. I appreciate it.
And like I said, I think it rings true to, you know, a lot of the variables through and I think that's why you're you as an individual or an asset, right? Or able to Plug and Play, and just have such levels of success. At such a high scale. You know that where you were operating at? I wonder what you think and I feel like I'm bouncing around a lot, but I definitely have. I have a day's worth of ideas
and different things. I wanted it to sort of ask you about and sort of get you elaborate on, but if you know for you having been around, you know, in operating at a high level in business. But if you know it as well as especially within Power Sports, where do you the journey like, when you go To buy something, right? I know that you live. You've got a place in Vermont and I know we're months, not massively. Populating you don't have six dealerships in your town to go,
right? So you probably can go into your local dealerships or as you travel or do other things. What does your journey look like? And what areas do you feel like are in a good place for dealerships to move the needle? Like, are you arriving through search on Google? Are you arriving to, I know this dealer. Open town and I give them the run my business. Let me see what their stuff looks like on their website. They're sort of their virtual
showroom. Do you have any sort of feedback on this is not calling out your local dealer by any means, but it's more General. Do you feel like we're certain dealerships you've either interacted with or been in and around on the initial Landing whether it's website or or other virtual spaces before you get to go there? Do you see areas where you would say? This is a common theme, I'd like, I think. What's next for them is this This. Yeah, yeah. It's a very very good point.
It's funny. I just kind of preparation for this colleges for my own thing. I do I just kind of wrote a little listen the best dealers I had encountered but you know it's almost everybody's going to research now you know, on the internet there they'll know. The product is some, you know, that probably to a high degree and then they will research. The, you know, the research, the dealer, the dealer Network, and
they may in some cases. Now, I'm seeing where you've got, you know, these survey, you know of external surveys where they're, you know, reading dealership and dealership
experiences. So that may be a new area that is starting to you know that is starting to emerge to to provide information to, you know, to Consumers but You know for me it really is you know when I will do some gauging quite frankly as I probably have driven by that dealership a lot you know many times and I'll kind of gauge, you know are they healthy or
not? By you know, what kind of inventory did they have setting you know out in front in that's it. So that may be one of the first you know that may be one of the first thing in there. They getting the new product than you. Strikes, the new, you know, you know, whatever, they dealers, get enough volume that they're getting the new product and then of course. And then, of course, is the experience of really actually walking in the dealership and you know, how you are approached.
A lot of that. To me also, is how quickly they assess what type of of a consumer. You are, you know, are you there to buy a new bike or you're born? You can fight your, are you, and you get a stable of bikes, and you're quite knowledgeable. You know, or is this your first bike, you know, and then do they really are they able to be adapt to what you really need to you. You really need to know to start building confidence that they can really help you. The have to tell you.
The other thing that is chair of the year with 15 motorcycles and 68 TVs. Here is so the shop in the dealerships are important to me. So, I am constantly taking bikes in out in that, to me, is the biggest weakness. Now, in the dealerships is that got turnover of mechanics, you know, I swear, I'm in, I've got a couple of bikes that they've just gone through, have not solved the basic. My grandson who's actually rebuilding bucks to, my part is
better. The most mechanic, you know, they keep swapping out parts and trying to solve problems and they're just not capable of doing it in the next time they go there that mechanic is gone because what I want to be able to do is I want to be able to talk to the mechanic is going to work on my bike and after the bike is done and I get the bill in my and I want to go through it with not at the cash
register. I want to go be able to go through with the mechanic to take me through and explain what was done and What I should, you know what I should expect. And then, you know that most difficult thing is the next time I call, I want to talk to the mechanic that mechanic is really is gone. So the back end, the shop to me, is, is just extremely extremely important in the reputation of the shop. In that reputation, is a shot moves to the community about as fast as anything, you know, as
anything else. So, you know, I just, you know, I bring it up, but I'll mention one other thing, you know. And I know that dealers know that, you know, you make a lot of money and accept accessories. So having someone who really knows the accessories and particular, clothing and frequently, what we would find is the dealers, didn't have someone in often, quite frankly to be a female who really understood all the accessory line in the clothing.
And of course these days, you know, safety and clothing and knowing and being able to take a garment and then explain if the safety factors to me that ends up being on an incredibly important aspect as well. But not just selling. It's not just selling of like what are the accessories? What clothing should safety clothing? Should I be we're wearing and then of course helmets are
always an issue there. It's you know that it definitely In Italy, you know that they definitely have to walk a line right? With what's the competitor, right? It's not necessarily the guy down the street although it could be the shop that exists you know next closest proximity. But it's the if you don't like you're saying if you don't have somebody that can I think Powersports is unique to me right?
In them taking a step back but Powersports is so neat unique to me and interacting with other forms of dealerships. They all can have it. Susie, assists, and them. But you talk about level of expectations being just, right?
I mean very, very, very high power sports seems to me to be extra in that space and like you're talking about if, if I can't go in there and Powersports and get a follow-up, you know, at least if, if somebody's not gonna, let me talk to the mechanic the service advisor, service manager, I feel the same has to be able to go through. They got a full download. And what happened to my bike?
Like I say, what to expect and then things like, what we've all learned from, if you have a decent Automotive dealership, they tell you what's next. You know, it's like the, this is where we're at. Here's what's been accomplished years in the, here's in the rearview mirrors. Were accomplished today. Here's where we sit today. Here's what's next for you. We expect to need that and you're right. I know that dealership struggle with with hiring technicians and that's one layer of it.
But like you're saying that that same level of expectation carries out, To the other areas within the store, they can have a great accessories Department of. If they've got a bunch of staff that are hiding behind the parts counter. And I was a parts guy, so I get it. And I know that that's real, you know, that's your comfort zone. Your brother with your computer and your there where your water bottle is and whatever else. But they need to be out active engaging knowledgeable.
They have to be all those things are expectations within Powersports is you know that high? Yeah, you know, I wonder too with things like Like, you know, if you live, you know, maybe you experienced this. I think you've sort of mentioned it when you even having living in a bigger city and having more options, sometimes finding someone that can solve a problem, which is what service
is doing, right? Fixing something, broken, solving a problem, something quirky going on, they have to humor you to a certain degree and be ready to take you at your word that it's making this weird squeak and they have to go and try to solve that problem. It puts them in a tough spot.
But again, this is where a dealership, you know, hiring an individual, that they might be a wonderful mechanic, but they have to also possess some other abilities, you know, to not be as engineering but more personal and understanding of what that is. So I know that that like, I say, has been a deficit for for power sports and and for many other Realms right now is that they say some of the trades, you know, people were whether they were steered away from it years
ago. And we're seeing the result of that with not as many people in that space. But yeah, kind of Wonder, I kind of Wonder the direction of what that does because like, you say, our expectations are very high, we're very Discerning, we know the product a lot of times as you know, by the time we research it and do all of our homework for so long. We know a lot about the product dealers, do and should know more, but, you know, we asked them to be so many things to us. Yeah, yeah.
And as you know what, word of mouth among the Riders users customers is such a huge Factor. So you get a lot of information from your peer group, you know, on the quality of a dealer, you know. Yeah, yeah. And like you say that that same group that that were, you know, hopefully showing up and doing rides to and it making it real easy to go hang out at a dealership, you know, some
dealerships. Don't either don't put the focus on it or actually think it's not a great idea that all people Hanging around who aren't buying anything that's sort of what I've literally heard out of the mouths of some employees. And that's not the decision maker, it's not always the principal who would say that but when somebody's like, yeah we don't, you know, we don't do that. We don't people they come through for poker rides or you
know, whatever. But we don't want to have like a coffee shop in here or seats and Wi-Fi and all these things because we don't people just hanging out here. We want people that are here to do business in that very transactional. Look at it to me, would tend to be very much more the metric or Or the Japanese sort of branded dealerships. And it definitely feels like, Harley Indian, you know, like those crowds have definitely learned that. No, no, we want them here.
We want them hanging out. We want to make them a free coffee or paid coffee or whatever. Yeah. It's a there's there's yeah, there's so much. I would love to ask you. I, you know, I had planned on asking for for 30 minutes of your time to do this, and we chatted a little before. So I know we're up against the clock here. I guess I would ask Couple well, one more sort of one more question. Usually, I like to ask just sort of more of the random end of questions, but you know, what's
been for you? What's been, you know, the most standout experience on a motorcycle. Oh, well, I've got to say, I have a rider group, The American fire motorcycle club that I started in Vermont and along with another friend from Utah. We just had our 28 reunions in. Moab, we have been riding together for 28 years so and we start every single year we start in Utah and we ride some Loop.
And then of course, we all of these International rides, you know, as I mentioned, China, Italy, France, whatever that group for 28 years in it is, as you would expect The most mix from billionaires, the governor of Illinois to who live to ride people that we've met on the road and have joined our group and been been with us in all. So we've got a very good group of women, both Riders and you know, ride to up that group is as an important of family to me as about my own family.
So that to me is you know, that probably is the most outstanding, you know, aspect of my life that came through came through motorcycling, it just a wonderful group of people who had who's been together for 28 years. But in 28 years, I'm sure it starts to get boring, right? It's motorcycling. I'm sure it's just gets really not exciting each time, right? 28 years. Yeah, we do. God, we've been more exciting things in any kind of weather and places that such great
experiences. So well that we have one, we have one person, we have an excellent writer, who writes up the rides, and put them on our website, American Flyer, you know, motorcycle club, so knowledge and their all every ride is a bunch of experiences. Yeah. Well I encourage anybody to check that out. You said, American. Flyer flyer. Yeah, it's a cool Club. Yeah.
Okay, okay, yeah. I mean, I definitely you know, that the reason I wanted you on was to sort of just talk about the book and your experience is behind all of it. I encourage everybody that's listening to this to go get that book or buy a few copies and and give it to your tier team. There's there's so many takeaways and it's not just the motorcycle aspect. It's about, you know, plug-in yourself in to a situation. Nation that, you know, needs
help and rising to the occasion. And how do you do that? And how do you keep fresh and keep motivated. There's, there's just so much in the book and I'm thankful you wrote. I'm thankful. I found it and I definitely am very thankful. You were able to take the time to come on today, Frank. Well, I'm the one that needs to thank you.
And, you know, and I have to say that the business that you were all in the Powersport dealer business, I I think is one of the most exciting ones that I have to say, you know, I always look at business and say, is there a great opportunity to do something different and really stand out? I think there is a huge opportunity for dealers to really do something be brave. Do something different and grow their dealerships in their customer base. So try it. I love it and I hope they'll do
that. And I don't, you know, I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but maybe in the future here before too long. I know you're busy with with lots of other business things and boards and different other things, but maybe you'd consider coming back on and have an another different conversation, little more depth in certain areas and love to do it. Okay. Thank you so much. Thanks so much Frank. Okay fine, thank you.