Episode description

As Ukraine’s counteroffensive grinds on, it’s increasingly turning to a secret drone program that is hitting targets deep inside Russian territory. At least three different Ukrainian-made drones have been used in attacks inside Russia, including on Moscow, according to an analysis by The New York Times.

Christiaan Triebert, a journalist on The Times’s Visual Investigations team, explains the origins of that program. We also speak to Serhiy Prytula, a former Ukrainian television host who is now a key force behind it.

Guest: Christiaan Triebert, a journalist on The New York Times’s Visual Investigations team.

Background reading: 

• Officials in Ukraine rarely discuss attacks on targets inside Russia, including Moscow. But video evidence shows an increasing effort to launch long-range strikes inside the country.
• Moscow said Ukraine used drones to strike Novorossiysk, a Black Sea naval and shipping hub, and a port in occupied Crimea.

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.