Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season to eighty seven, episode.
Four of the Warehouse.
This is still the production of My Heart Radio.
I didn't catch any of that. I tried to do the full Dean scream lead up and then we're watch to take back to the White House.
We're gonna watch it.
We're gonna watch this take by the Warehouse. Yeah, Dean just like cranked up on cocaine, had to cram it in man, the whole the whole book.
Well, this is a podcast, Miles. Did you did you know this? Do you hear about this?
You see? This is the podcast where we take it deep to have into America share consciousness. Oh, take a deep to have into American share consciousness and stuff.
I like that.
I sound more and more like a carnival.
Or a auctioneer.
Auctioneer. Thank you, We finish each other's sandwich and which Yeah, Thursday Day, May eighteenth, twenty twenty three, which of course means eighteenth National Cheese Soup Lay Day, National No Dirty Dishes Day, Also International International Museum Day, National HIV Vaccine Awareness Day, National Visit Your Relatives Day, Awareness Day.
Yeah, raising awareness that there is one or just the who work together to find. Oh okay, got a sate like in vaccine. Yes, you know, it's all about research. It's all about research, research, all right.
Well, my name is Jack O'Brien AKA. We're going down down in the second playing rounds, and buddy, we're going down sadly.
That is courtesy of make Curi.
Oh yeah, on the Goody Court make Curory, who said I don't know enough about sports to take it further, but Jack was about his sad NBA made.
Me think of sugar. We're going down his sad NBA.
Is my favorite description talking about his sad NBA.
Oh man, yeah, yeah.
I'm over it or you know, it's one of those breakups that we're just we've tried too many times and just moving along. And I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co host mister Miles Gram.
Miles break a.
Fresh out of the de fryer. They're reaching temps that no one's seen, earning no fresh out the d fryer around, straight to the skin of your pre teen Shout out to Rayzac on the discord, because yeah, we're talking about those McDonald's nuggies burning that child.
Yeah. Four four is uh I guess, definitely preteen.
They're pre four years. You got a rhyme with no one seen, you know when you say prech attendee, I don't know. I'm not here to workshop, but I like it. Yeah, I just refer to my kids as preteens. Now me too, my baby. Have you got a kid?
Yeah?
Preteen?
Oh? Really three and a half months? You go, hey, it's technically true. Why you want to know so much about my kid?
Huh? This? Who's this guy? What are you the cops? What are you a fucking cop? What are you asking about my kid? What is real? Age is? Don't worries a preteen? Move on?
Uh, miles. We're a thrilled to be joined by an award winning writer, investigative journalist, podcaster, so you know from her Peabody nominated work on This Land, her investigative climate podcast Drilled. Please welcome back to the show on a four year cycle, Amy Western.
Thank you so much for that intro.
But before we started recording, we were talking about you were last on May twenty second, twenty nineteen.
Crazy Yeah, yeah, I can't believe it.
Fact you're like the Olympics and presidential elections, just everything the world cup drop some Westervelt on rs exactly what's that?
What's okay? Catch us up in the last four years since? Are good? Right things?
What's what's happened lately? Yeah? Oh my god, well, I I guess the big new thing is that I live in Costa Rica.
Now you what I mean?
Huanacosta, Okay, yeah, on the Pacific coast. It's nice.
Yes, I actually got married there.
You did?
Where in hako Oh is really nice?
Yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah because my aunt. My aunt is Costa Rican. So I've been going there since I was a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got it. Yeah yeah, but she's from me, She's from the Atlantic, you know where the black people are at.
I still haven't been to Limon yet. I really want to go.
Oh it's dope. It's dope.
It's so amazing and the history is so interesting and like, yeah, I just yeah, I want to go.
Okay, Yes, living there, do you feel like you are sixty percent less stressed out? That's yeah, Like that's how I feel every time I leave in America.
Yeah, like I work on all the same stuff. I'm still immersed in all of the like crazy politics and climate stuff and all of it, but it's like the context really helps.
Yeah. Yeah, especially in a country too that is like trying to do right by their own and like part patch of Earth, you know what I mean.
Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.
Yeah.
Like my kids are in school here and they had, like they had the day off a few months ago for the day that they celebrate getting rid of their military so they'd have money to pay for like health care and education. What well, I love this place.
Never mind, I'm not I'm no longer on board.
No, they'll send a doctor to you if you like live in a remote place to be like, hey, you're doing all right? Yeah?
Where they come into my house to get my guns smiles, Come on.
That ship, Jack.
Wow, that sounds nice. That sounds really nice. Like I dream of leaving the US, and then I like part of me is like yeah, but then you go somewhere and like wherever you go, there you are, and I'd be just distressed anywhere else.
But you can't run away from your problems Jack.
Yeah, I did.
But like I lived in Ireland for like a few months when I was in college, and like I just remember getting back and just like the ambient stress level of everybody in line at the airport. Yeah, just like you can just like sense this, yes, silent, invisible, just like anger and energy and yeah, totally.
I know. Like the longer I go without going back to the like when I when I have been here for like you know, five or six months without going back to the US, and I go back, it's really noticeable. It's really like, oh my god, why is everyone such an asshole to each other?
Yes, each other. I think it's just a reflection like when you're in a place where the government is actively telling you, like we don't give a fuck about you or what happens to you. Everyone's just like fuck versus. If there's just some semblance of like you know, community or responsibility towards each other, that's right. Just you're laid back a couple of clicks, it might not be as lit like with the consumer goods as maybe the US. Absolutely.
Yeah, that's the thing is you cannot like I went to Okay, So last year I was in Guyana reporting a story and I hung out with this guy who's a like chef. He you know, used to live in New York for years and years and was from Guyana. Moved back home and he and I were talking about the US, and he's like, do you miss it? Like you've been gone for a while, now, do you miss
anything about the US? And I was like, you know, the only thing I miss sometimes is the way that America like makes it extremely easy to participate in capitalists right right, Like occasionally, yes, like that convenience is missed, but otherwise not really. I mean it's it's but yeah, I think it's you know, everybody is is kind of having put in the position of having to fight for scraps,
and it leads to this really competitive, you know, individualistic. Yeah, that is like not healthy for any of us.
Now you got to hustle to keep your health care, that's right. That does something to your central nervous system as a human being.
Yeah, well yeah, yeah. The retail therapy is real.
Like there's that scene in White Noise, Like there's a scene of White Noise where like the family just goes to the grocery store to like feel whole again, look at the colors and like let them wash over them. And that is real to me, Like I I love a trip to the grocery store and just coast go to Maso Menos and get there you know exactly.
Mega super whatever it is, get it.
They got it. They got it.
But like you can get really good food stuff here and I don't know whatever, and yeah, you just after a while, even with my kids like I have my kids are seven and ten, also preteens.
And actual preteens. Yeah, I think my three and a half month year old three and a half month year old as well a half month year old. Also.
Did you hear how judgy she was when she said actual our preteens?
Our Wow, yeah, you're six and four preteens.
But you were saying the first month or something, they were like, can't we just order it on Amazon? And I have delivered tomorrow And I'm like, yeah, not a thing here, guys. Sorry, you're used to it. But now it's like they don't. It doesn't come up.
How old were they when you guys moved?
They were five and eight?
Damn all right, I still got time. I could do it.
It's quite easy to immigrate to Costrica. I just put that out there. They make it very easy in lots of different ways.
So yeah, and look, you know that's the fucking you loved that ship out there. And it's funny too, like every d I used to, like back when I was like years ago, my friends would be like, oh, can I go to Costa Rica? Like when you go, I want to go with you. Every person that comes with me ruined, They're ruined.
After I went to Like, I had to go to a conference last month in the US, and like I was on. I was on a bunch of panels, one of which was actually like a panel that I organized. And I went to lunch beforehand, and I was like, I want to walk back from lunch. It's a beautiful day. And I totally put aviated my ass into being like ten minutes late for my own panel.
And I was like, what the fuck are you doing?
Man?
And I'm like, I know I wanted to walk after lunch.
Oh here's something you should learn. Yeah, you should learn about me. I'm on Tico time.
So I'm sorry. Yeah.
And when you were ten minutes late for your own panel, your life completely fell apart, right, And.
That was you know what charming?
Oh weird?
So that you can actually just have a good pace of life exactly, Yeah, not.
In my brain. My brain will be like this is it. This is the end of my life.
Yeah, Well, fucking show up. All right, Amy, we're going to get to know you a little bit better in a moment. First, we're going to tell our listeners a couple of the things we're talking about. Uh, we're going to talk about the one point five celsius threshold of global warming, which we're going to be crossing in the next years, the coming days. It'll be like that scene in the Social Network where they have the big numbers up on the board and then everybody celebrates and Mark
Zuckerberg threatens to sue somebody. So we're just going to talk about the general state of climate with Amy. We're also going to get to a fellow, you know, David v. Goliaths Amy. You know, Amy takes on the fossil fuel industry, tells difficult truths about them that they don't want told. Well, there's another David taken on Golias by the name of Kirk Cameron, and he has decided to take on Big Librarian. So get ready for a sordid tale. All of that
plenty more. But first, Amy, we do like to ask our guests, what is something from your search history?
Well, this morning I was looking at oil stock prices, which I feel like is very on free end of it, but like the less expected one from last night, which this is embarrassing. I looked at how to make fried mac and cheese balls because I had a bunch of leftover mac and cheese, which is both gross but also delicious really good.
Yes, well, so just breadcrumbs basically, just.
You Okay, you roll them into balls and you freeze them like you roll leftovers into like little balls. Freeze it. Then you cover it in egg and breadcrumbs. Yeah, and then pop into hair Fryernila.
More cheese, coating that thing like a couple cheese.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I was thinking about that, like could I wrap a piece of cheese around this before I fried?
Yeah, use the egg as the glue that sticks the cheese to it.
I don't know.
Yeah. Yeah.
And you were check in the oil stocks just to see how you was doing. Yes, Yes, are you diversified because I got X and I got VP y shell baby, I got them all.
So they're all there, They're all there.
No.
I wanted to see if there was a really big ruling in a case I was falling against Exxon, and I wanted to see if it was the ruling came out against exon. I wanted to see if it impacted their stock.
And it did, so that's why I get. That's why you weren't in Zurich this winter when I was looking for you on the slopes and let's she.
Excellent, probably walking home late to this skiing. What is something you think is overrated?
Oh blue sky? The new social media? Yes, go on, just old Twitter. It's old Twitter. It's two thousand and eight, two thousand an e ish Twitter. And I feel like I'm not doing anything that makes me think it will end up differently. So yeah. Also, honestly, I feel like everyone should just take the opportunity to get the fuck off of social media, Like it'll be okay, it'll be okay, and like we're all screwing around trying to find a
cool replacement. But like maybe it's just time to, you know, talk to people in real life, touch grass as the youths like to say.
So, where do you find the strangers that you argue with? Do you just kind of find this stranger?
Actually weird, weird little discovery about my corner of Costa Rica is a whole bunch of really like random libertarians so here in the last few years, including a lot of like Alberta Tarsan's billionaires from Canada. So so yes, I do come. I come across street to argue with not on the street in real life, in my in my neighborhood. Sometimes, Yes, that.
Area is interesting because like flying out of San Jose is very different than flying out of Liu Aia. Oh yeah, like the airport in Lividia feels like Florida. Yes, Like when I'm there, I'm like, I'm sorry, where are It's like.
So yeah, yeah, totally. And then you know Tamarindo, which is like the biggest kind of town outside from Liberia here is everyone calls it Tama Gringo because it is so it's like the whitest town.
And yeah, yes, good sports, that's what brings me down here. Great sports, fishing.
Yeah, so there are all these these people and it's I had a conversation just last week with someone who was saying they were from they were from Alberta, Tarzan Skuy, and he was like, I like it here because it's because of the freedom. And I was like, oh, you know what actually enables that freedom. The normal social safety nets are a good day.
I'm like, how are you with all the vaccine passport stuff when Costa Rica was on top of that. Because they were on top of.
That, they were on top of it, and a bunch of those people just like couldn't leave the country for for like a while because not only was cost Rica on top of it, but also you know, other countries were asking for for vaccine things too, So yeah, actually a bunch of those people were effectively housebound. And that's the thing too. They're like, oh, but I didn't get sick, and I'm like, yeah, because the rest of the country
got vaccinated. Dude, that's how it works, right, Yeah. Anyway, Yeah, See, it's just like Twitter, but in real life.
Yeah, you can have the same arguments and they aren't even made up people in your head while you're trying to go to sleep in the middle of the night.
Exactly.
Yeah, what is uh? What something you think is underrated?
I'm so embarrassed to say this out loud. Birds. I fucking love to watch birds go off.
Birds queen, what amazing birds here. I've heard of these things, but I actually haven't. So you're you've got a person who's underrating birds here. I've heard of them, but like, I don't know.
They're a little flying dinosaurs. They're little flying dinosaurs. How dare you?
Yes?
I yeah, they're reading, Uh what's the book that's about, like the evolution of how they became so beautiful?
Oh, I don't know. Weirdly, I have, like I rarely have an obsession with burbs and yet know nothing about them, Like made it as much obsession with bbs. I need a T shirt that says I heart Burbs now yes please? Anyway, Yeah, I like, I really like them. I like watching them, but I know almost nothing about them. Someone asked me, like, I had someone visiting the other day and I was like, look, it's my favorite yellow bird. And they're like, you mean the blah blah blah. I'm like, I don't know what
it's called. It's like yellow.
Yeah, I don't know yellow bird yellow.
I love birds, you know, And I'm picturing that conversation happening around big bird.
By the way.
You're like, I love yellow bird, and they're like big bird.
You're like, I don't know the.
Tech whatever you call him.
I'm not gonna I'm not going to hit you with the binomial nomenclature here, but I believe it's just yellow bird.
A damn My Google search how Birds Got So Pretty did not did not bring up the book that I was thinking of. It's like the Birds Evolution The Evolution of Birds by Sarah Hills. How beauty is making science the rise of birds. I'll figure it out by the end. But yeah, it's all about.
Just you know, they they started.
It's been a steady arms race like how to be most beautiful bird since they started evolving. And it's like, like.
So humans won't kill them or.
No, it's not like that's what I always assumed. It was like that there must be some you know, survival of the fittest, like kill or be killed thing to this, and it's just mating and trying to be the sexiest bird.
To other amazing.
Ye, I love it. It's all about Yeah, it's all about being hot and right. That's also why their songs are so beautiful. It has nothing to do with us. They don't give a ship yet.
I feel like you're just talking yourself into loving birds more right now.
No, I actually I was playing playing character of guy. Yeah I love birds too. Yeah, it's the one like with the bower bird that like builds that immaculate like sex throne sexist. The bower bird like builds like goes around, gets all these like shiny trinkets and different things like hey, like, hey.
Check this out.
This is chick old plastic spoon. Like some of the dances, some of the mating dances.
That they do.
It's like four dudes will do a mating dance so that one of them can mate, and they are like elaborate.
And that was my One of my favorite Planet Earth segments too, was on the one all the different birds and like how they were just all getting down and then just watching like the disinterested female be like just fly away, like.
I'm sorry. The Evolution of Beauty, How Darwin's forgotten theory of mate choice shapes the animal world and us by Richard oh prum Is.
Okay, don't even have birds in the title.
It has birds, Yeah, verbs, urbsburbsumb birds. Well, let's take a quick break. We'll come back and talk about some news.
My favorite Tom Hanks movie, The Burbs, thea Burbs.
And we're back, and so is this climate change story back in the news. It's like enough, we get it, am I right?
I remember telling you after Coachella. After Coachella, Jack I was telling you, like, I'm only about good vibes right now, yes, vibes, And I didn't want to think about climat change or whatever it's called. It's so such a bummer, but yeah, man, one and a half degree is celsius is like something that stretched me out since I first heard of like the concept. You know that the Earth is a degree and a half celsius warmer now than it was on
the back end of the nineteenth century. It's sort of like a key indicator of potential runaway climate change, which would lead to increased fires and out and storms and heat waves and everything we've seen that has been so fucking horrific and obviously the key number behind many climate summits and negotiations around emissions, and researchers are now saying that they expect to see us pass this threshold within
the next few years, like by twenty twenty seven. They think it's going to happen, And they say there's still time, and that merely getting to one and a half degree celsius doesn't mean that the parish agreement is completely futile. It would have to be sustained, a sustained sort of increase over twenty years for that to happen. But as someone who's constantly freaked the fuck out by the chances of again increased terrible weather events, it fills me with
an impotent rage. Phrase we've been saying quite frequently on the show. But yeah, like Amy, as someone that's you're very dialed in on this and all of the machinations around climate change and climate denial, aside from the fact that climate change denial is doing its job, how are you feeling about this, this sort of this news.
It's just it's really frustrated because I feel like, well, first of all, I think, okay, I feel like we should say that a lot of like a lot of the predictions around it happening in the next few years are also related to the El Nino, right stuff, And so scientists are like, we'll probably cross it and then go back, which is good just to you know, give people a very tiny sliver of the slight breast of
the silver lighting. But but yeah, I mean, aside from that, every single indication is that we are hurdling towards one point five degrees and beyond. I mean, since the Paris Climate Agreement, I don't think anyone has actually kept their commitments, and we're going the opposite direction on oil and gas development. That's just the facts. So, I mean, I don't know. My personal opinion is that the international climate negotiations process
has kind of been broken from the beginning. I mean there were fossil fuel company is involved in that from the jump, I mean, from you know, even before the first they call it the Conference of the Parties cop which are these like annual global meetings or all of the leaders get together and they decide on an agreement.
Before that, yeah, exactly. Yeah, So before that, in nineteen ninety two, there was the Real Earth Summit, which is where they came up with like, you know, the UN Framework for Climate Change and how were they were going to bring everyone together to do this? And there were
oil guys all over that place. They were they helped to craft some of the language of the UN framing on climate change and really like with the idea of you know, we will voluntarily do X, y Z, so nobody has to regulate emissions, nobody has to make emissions reductions mandatory, any of that. The closest that we ever got to doing something that would have that you know, had some impact was probably the Kyoto Protocol in the mid nineties, which had binding emissions reductions where you had
to actually you had to actually do something. Since then, everything's been voluntary. So you know, in Europe there are countries that are being sued for not regulating their oil and gas companies to keep them in line with the Paris Climate Accord, which is very interesting. There was a case last year in the Netherlands where a court ordered
Shell to like to reduce their missions. They were like, you guys actually have to reduce emissions across the board around the world from not just your own operations, but also the use of your product by like forty percent in the next ten years or something like that. So there are like things happening outside of the global kind of negotiations. But I don't know, I just I feel like I kind of think it's time, you know, to just kick the fossil fuel industry out of that whole process.
They've been there the whole time. You know, we're not getting any closer to actually doing something, and you know, next year's cop is going to be held by the United Arab Emirates.
And is like this is crazy.
The most fossil fueled of these events to have happened, so it's getting worse now.
Yes, it's covered like it's a solution, like it's a possible solution every year, and the people who are on the ground are like, it's it's a oil industry trade show.
It is. It's exactly that.
Yeah, And I always talk about too, like how outnumbered representatives from countries are versus the fossil fuel industry. There are more people here from the fossil fuel industry than like countries that are at like right now seeing the worst of climate change exactly exactly.
But then you also have like at the same time you have I don't know, we just did the story in Guyana, which has me thinking a lot about all of this stuff. Because they're Global South country. They had no oil industry up until twenty nineteen. So actually the last time I was here is when they started their oil industry.
And what's happening time good news.
Yeah, they're now on track to be the number one like production zone for exonmobile in the world.
Jesus Christ.
For it to happen that quickly is really unheard of, and you know, it's but it's really interesting to talk to some of the politicians there because Guyana was like a big conservation leader for a long time. They were one of the first countries that was sort of like paid by polluting countries to preserve their forests and stuff like that, and they are like a big eco tourism
destination all of this stuff. But they're like, we have ninety percent of our population on the coast and it is that stretch of the coast where ninety percent of the population lives is going to be underwater by twenty thirty and we don't have the money to do anything about that. So we're getting into the oil business. And I was just like, man, that is the biggest indictment of the international climates like negotiation system that I can think of, because like we have put these countries in
the position of being dependent on oil fucking companies. Yeah to adapt to climate change, right. Yeah, So anyway, I'm really fun at parties and yeah, I mean I think that the thing with one point five is like just to give people again, like a tiny bit of I don't not necessarily hope, but maybe like fuel to keep going. It's just that like it's it every percentage of a degree counts, and everything that we do now will have an impact on, you know, the viability of the next generation.
And we're not great as humans are thinking about, you know, being a good ancestor to future generations. But we need to be because we get there.
I think other civilizations were good at that. Just what this Western hyper consumerist, hyper capitalism version of humanity, which is an aberration. It's just a cancer that's taken over and spread. But it's totally it is bad at that. But there have been you know, long surviving civilizations that we're.
We're good at it, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, the only concept we have of being good ants I should be like, well I need to accumulate as much wealth now, yes, to let that maybe behind or maybe I die with it all in my coffin. I don't know. I don't know. But that's like the thinking that you think people do now is sort of like it's it's a financial future. Yeah, and it's like if
anything else is too abstract. It's not about like, well I can make decisions now, Like to your point, Amy, that could can reverberate on some level, right, but it's we don't think like that.
No, No, yeah, exactly, Like a lot of a lot of indigenous cultures had that really baked into everything, you know, like totally how what we do now will impact this water source for future generations and this food source and all of that stuff. And I feel like, yeah, the world has gotten really far away from, weirdly from the sorts of behaviors and practices that are conducive to the
sustainability of human life. Like we talk about sustainability, you know, and it's like, oh, the environment or the trees or whatever it. Guess, like all of that is very important and we're part of that. But I don't understand the like the death wish thing, and I don't think that
most humans have it. I think we're talking about a very specific group of people who make these decisions and who and you know, people say things like, well, they're you know, that's ridiculous because nobody can escape the impacts of climate change. I don't think that's actually true. I think, and I don't think that they think it's true. I think that you have a bunch of people who are like, I'll just get my spaceship, like freakin' Elon Musk is
on that tip now, you know. It's like Wally right, and like bunkers in New Zealand and Costa Rica and they'll you.
Know, they're all buying up beach or like you knows.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we've we've talked a little bit about like a couple of stories in the past few months that have made me feel somewhat optimistic are the story of how the Netherlands like made like cut emissions across their country by like getting rid of cars basically in a lot of theirs.
And it made their cities more pleasant.
Yes, yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you, is like, yeah, these are I think the thing that appeals to me about these two stories like Paris becoming this like amazing bikeable city, the Netherlands doing that after being like just traffic choked like the worst versions of American cities, you know,
very decade within the past like fifty years. And I think, like, I think the thing that a problem we have is like a lack of imagination, Like what how the solution to climate change could be cool and could like create a reality that actually, you know, captures your imagination and makes the world like a more fun place to be, Like they turned that highway into a river beach on
the river send like in like that fucking rules. Yeah, so like yeah, and then there are things like like we I think we tend to hear a lot about the vicious cycles and not the virtuous cycles when it comes to climate. So like I'm just curious, are there are there other places where you see people like creating better, more sustainable futures that are actually like more fun or yes.
Yeah, well honestly, I feel like every single place that has done that has has created like a higher quality of living as a as a result. I mean I live in a country that very much did that, like Costa Rica in the seventies, you know, decided not to industrialize, well actually to undo a bunch of industrialization that it happened, and to really prioritize protecting the ecosystem in a way. It's and it's not at all like it forgets about
humans or something. I feel like that's a trope that you know, a lot of a lot of people think is true that like you well, a that humans aren't part of the environment and that and be that if
you care about ecosystems, you don't care about humans. But anyway, like there's they did a really good job of of you know, talking to all of the different types of stakeholders, farmers and you know, fishermen and all of these people who depended on these resources and figuring out a way to protect them and to enable everyone to actually enjoy, you know, being in all of these beautiful natural places and like it's it's a way better quality of life.
Like New Zealand too, we actually did a whole season on like a legal concept called rights of nature that comes from indigenous ideas about kind of how to value nature and how to think through any decision that you're making through the lens of like what impacts it will have on the ecosystem, including humans. But you know kind of okay, like let's take a holistic view of what it will mean to build this building or build this
road or whatever. And in New Zealand, they have kind of baked that into like a sort of a land
back movement with First Nations people there. It's fascinating. So they restored rights to like a sacred mountain to the Maori there, and they kind of gave so the mountain has rights, and then the Maori community has the ability to protect the mountain's rights because of that, Like they've turned what had been a national park that wasn't being looked after, like it was full of trash and people were kind of dumping on it all the time into
this really, really beautiful place that has all of these you know, cultural centers and language learning classes and it has just become like a like a point of pride for the local community and also someplace for you know, people in the country to come and visit. And like, I don't know, I just I feel like there's a chapter in the most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report, the IBCC report, that was like the most wonky title.
I think it was called demand growth Scenarios or something like that, but the whole point of it was so boring. But the whole point of it was like looking at these co benefits of like reducing consumption. Basically, it was kind of radical for them to say this because it was like the most anti capitalist like proposal from this panel of scientists, and they were like, actually, if we just changed all of these behaviors that are pretty basic.
It's like, you know, making it easier to get around cities on public transport or walking or biking, shifting diets, not entirely getting rid of meat, but like just making them more plant based, right, you know, like a lot
of really basic things. They were like, we could actually reduce emissions from forty to seventy percent by twenty fifty just doing those things, not deploying a new technology, not like waiting for someone to come up with a you know, giant vacuum that sucks carbon out of the sky, which seems to be a lot of people's dream right now, you know, and that it has all of these benefits for health, for you know, quality of life, for economically for people it costs less to live in cities like that.
So yeah, I just I feel like there's this ten for the climate movement to kind of constantly just be reacting to the oil guys and their friends saying like they want to take your hamburgers or like they never want you to travel again or whatever. Instead of being like, no, we don't. I think the climate people kind of need to be like, this is what we're talking about, and just yeah, they're framing altogether.
More bikes, more bikes.
Yeah, I feel like there's a lack of imagination for how good, you know, a more sustainable future can be. And then there's a lack of imagination for how evil and cynical like things actually are. On the corporate side, it's.
And there's like an over emphasis of how great things are in this like hyper capitalism. Like, look around, guys, it's not good. You know, do you feel everyone I know in the US is super stressed out? No one is being made happier by you know, the super fast, convenient capital that that's provided.
More like isolated and cellularized.
And yeah, the only.
Thing it's good for is making consumerism like easier.
It's not good for people. Hyper consumerism is the new opioid of the masses.
Basically, it doesn't even work. And all we're doing is just fucking fiending for the next thing.
And but I have I actually have a proposal that can tackle climate change and gun control because the Netherlands, you know, it's a good juxtaposition, they got more bikes than people over there. Yeah, America got more guns than people. What we need to do is convert these guns to bikes. Yeah, and now you're taking guns off the street and you
turn them into bicycles. I think it's win win when or you just have to like or like always have to market bikes to be like the new fucking pickup truck to writ like.
Tires with spikes on them.
Yeah exactly, And we just need like a cool you know, like like Jack, you're referencing Fast and the Furious sort of off mic about like how that makes cars look cool. Yeah.
Yeah, that's like the win win is the like cooler cities to exist in and they're more sustainable, like better quality of life and it's sustainable.
Fast and Furious would be like.
A win lose where it's like cool movie. It does make gas powered cars look really good. Looks makes them look too damn cool. So we need more win wins, like things that appeal to our imagination.
And there's a bunch of them out there. It's not like it's not like we have to go create a bunch of new things. There's like a whole bunch of stuff out there that already delivers.
Yeah, you know, multi wins. Our media does a terrible job of covering it, right.
It's also it's so interesting too, like if we just had protected bike lanes through intersections like that would even help, Like I feel like especially in La yeah, because that's where people get hit.
Yeah, and all I feel like.
Just incrementally be like, you know what, we're going to turn up to intersections a little bit so that the bike lanes are protected. I'm sure so many more people would ride bikes, like myself included, because in La some of these intersections. Man, you're just it's like it's a miracle. How there's like a just a rapidly increasing like number of fucked up bike v. Car accidents.
Yeah, London has like built a bunch of like separate bike paths, like they're like completely separate and like go around go around intersections, and yeah, they look cool and they're I don't know, man, yeah, there there are we I just think there's a hopelessness because they we aren't given the proper like imaginative ballast to like create the solutions in our own minds.
Yeah, and to think that the solutions are like fees of there's such a like defeatism, I think, yeah, in the face of like, yeah, all of the corporate control and you know, corrupt government stuff and whatever, but you do see it like at the city and state level, Yeah, things can happen and so.
Yeah, yeah, like Denver had a great like e bike program that was so popular and yeah, you know that's been a boon for them, and I just think like if you have to like even start smaller, like during the like in the initial parts of the pandemic, I was really into this web series called Drum and Bass on the Bike and it was this guy who basically he's like a DJ, but rigged up speakers and like a turntable set up to his bicycle and just rode
around blasting drum and bass. And it just grew to like hundreds of people all on bikes just vibing out to music. But on bike was that in La No, it's in England, Like start off in London and then then you would be like, yo, I'm going to be in Brighton, I'm going to be in Manchester, I'm being Liverpool, whatever, and people just will come out just to like first
just kind of vibe because everybody felt so separated. But I was like, this is genius on another level because it's not so much about like we're doing the right thing by the environment or whatever, but like getting people really into the idea of like getting together being on bikes and just having like a really good time with that. And I feel like that's kind of like my fast and furious of like biking that I see and I'm like more bad and that.
Exactly, and we need that. Like I always whenever people ask me like about anything that gives me like optimism on the climate front, it's always community stuff. It's always like any like community action because like, a we need that as like in the US in particular, like really needs to sort of like figure out community.
You know.
And then and then on top of that, it's also like it's also how you're going to survive climate change, you know, like as as we deal with more and more extreme weather events, like you need to you need to have neighbors that you can count on, like you need to live in community with other people, and we have got to figure that shit out. Yeah.
Yeah.
I think Americans tend to who haven't been through a crisis or a climate crisis or a hurricane, you know, glued to their screens watching the other people, and they're like, I bet there's looting crews going around. I would shoot them so hard. And then people who are actually in the crisis are like helping each other out, and like this was actually really cool, Like I learned a lot.
About my neighbors and like I really respect them.
A lot more exactly.
Yeah, yeah, I just I think it was a podcast that I was listening to that you were on the mention that Amy Cony Barrett's dead is a longtime shell exactly.
Yep.
Like, so that's number two.
Like, so we learned that Brett Kavanaugh's dad was like the lobbyist who made it possible for Johnson and Johnson to continue to sell baby powder even though it was like obviously giving people cancer and right, it's just.
Yeah, amazing. And Alito Justice Alito has stock and Conicco Phillips.
That's another one, Like do they pick these people out to be Supreme Court justices when they were kids? Are they just like yeah, they got the agree like pro oil pro they find them when they're preteens. Yeah, it is I cynical and complex and it's wild that like there there isn't more made of that.
Also, I know it's really it's.
The bad guy. It's really bad.
The good positive solutions could be really fun and yeah, it gets ignored.
A lot, yeah, which it's true.
Yeah, all right, let's take a quick break, we'll come back, we'll talk Kirk camera, we'll be right back, and we're back, and we're back, and Kirk Cameron is back in all of our minds and hearts. So who's trending? I think
it was last week. Not because there's a new entry in the Left Behind Cinematic Universe, so though we're all waiting on the edge of our seats for that, but due to an o An interview in which he ranted about how public schools are quote killing God from his home, which features a barn with a giant crucifix entryway, Like just the whole side of the barn is a a crucifix hole that you then like walk through to get through.
And I hate to be I hate to I hate to take it to Bible school again like I did yesterday with the goods American thing. But that's that's just a cross. It's not a crucifix. Yeah, of Christ on the Cross. I'm sorry, and I'm sorry Christ. I'm sorry. Christ. Do not smite this podcast.
But it's just so impractical, Like it must be so hard to keep that like warm in the winter time.
It looks like if the kool aid man was Christian and he busted through your barn, He's like, oh yeah, like the shape it was just like a very jit cross.
It's like a two to three story tall hole in the side of his barn.
Yeah.
But since the end of twenty twenty two, he has been actively promoting his new book, As You Grow, which huh sounds harmless enough. I think we can give it a pass yep, but that as that might indicate this motherfucker is still using growing pains puns. It's about a tree and how those of us who don't believe in God will burn for all eternity.
Hell yeah.
The description on Amazon boasts that it was written by the Ledge Dairy Kirk Camera Legend, Legen Legion like fucking mt We've talked about the publisher Brave Books before. They're trying to like create a right wing marvel cinematic universe for children like children books like all the books are set in a magical land of freedom.
Island is shockingly unfree. You will be.
Surprised to learn their locations such as car A Lago Coast, car A Lago.
Oh my god.
There's also a place called Wigamore Woods. What's Wigamore is that for like the white people who think they're black, like all the wiggers hang out over there. That might they might have that in their books. I don't know, some must all these Okay, whatever, cool, let's go to Freedom Island.
Yeah, there's talking animals and conservative buzzwords, and that seems to be about it. But so he was making headlines last year when his book launched, claiming that he has been banned from holding readings of his book by woke public libraries. Huh, because first of all, is there anyone anyone more victimized than white Christian former TV stars trying to promote their latest vanity project, Like, oh absolutely, it's so hard for them. And also, is there a scarier villain than librarians?
I mean that you Encounts on Human Rights talked about this about how the problem white Christian former TV stars are really really we really need to bring more attention to their plight.
They're protected group. But his war with librarians mainly is him piggybacking on all the bigotry and hate directed at drag Queen's story hours using it to promote his book are doing that Books featuring l g B t Q plus characters are terrifying and a step towards totalitarianism.
Wow, not like not like burning and banning books that's not a step towards.
The I don't see any historical reference point for that that would make sense at all. This is what he's probably saying, Yeah, toward totalitarian acceptance.
Yes, he denied that he's just trying to make headlines and sell his book and claimed that librarians were starting a war with him.
Librarian said, who is Kirk Cameron?
Yes? Wait, so how did they start this war? Because they people drove to his house and threw dog shit on his door and said, don't fuck with the library. I mean the fact that the hole that his door is a giant cross shaped hole would make it super easy to throw dog shit in there. But yeah, he So.
His version of wade them waging war on him is that he asked for and he didn't just ask for like a slot to read his books to kids at the libraries, and his agencies email the libraries. They mentioned that Cameron also wanted to lecture children about the quote harmful effects of woke ideology, specifically critical race theory and the transgender agenda.
Transgender, the transgender.
What the fuck? It's like, it's so obvious, like he's just drafting off of like the culture warship for.
Him, but that that letter was specifically written to like outrage the people who get box. And then there was libraries like one in Providence, Rhode Island very politely declined the offer because they are They were like, hey, we're like super queer friendly and that like your messaging just like would not align with the community.
Whoa and what so yeah what words of war fighting words? Messaging does not quite align?
Is the library really called Rochambeau?
Yeah? Wow, I love that.
It's amazing.
Okay, so that was that was the That was the killing of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Yes, little prince hip, So then tell me, tell me how the invasion of Poland.
I think I'm mixing my World War II eyes up.
But yeah.
Another library received Cameron's request in New York and responded to the message by and like, try try to remain calm as you hear this act of aggression, sending a link to the online application for presenting a library program.
What the fuck?
They're like, Oh, you want to read at our library? Oh? Just like here, here's where's the form, which they do to every request of this type. And the publisher did not submit an application oh, censorship. Yes, And then so he sent a letter about the transgender agenda, the transgender.
And thank you, thank you jfkgenda.
And the library declined extremely politely, and Kirk Cameron threatened legal action. No, and the library director directed them to a request for a room rental.
Okay, do it in fine, you can have access to the library, but just do it in your own little room.
Of This is the thing that is like pissing me off the most about all of these these guys being like, I'm my free speech rights are being you know, curtailed or whatever, Like, no one guarantees you an audience, bro, That is not what the First Amendment says, speech, not free reach. Like, get a grip. I don't understand it. I thought they all had pocket constitutions they should read them.
Yeah, but that is that's what they want. That's what Elon Musk wants. Ye'll keep firing people until every one of his tweets gets to every Twitter more traction than the supermom.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
But so he he did that, then booked the room, but then complained, and this is like a subtle form of warfare. Complained because his event wasn't on the website calendar, even though a Plato playdate was.
Come on. Plato play date is like a is like a headline event for a library.
Yeah, yeah, that's the Night of Long Knives. I feel like that's like promoting the Plato playdate. So in March, he appeared at a Brave Books library, reading with other illustrious children's authors such as Jack Pasobiac, Oh my God, Sean Spicer, the Lips of TikTok person, and like twenty people showed up and crew and they were like apparently really embarrassed by that. I'm like, for twenty people for children?
Wait when was the book reading? I don't know. It was like looks like it was ten thirty am on a Wednesday.
Right, oh Wednesday morning. Yeah, weren't they in school?
Yeah, children were in school, but they were taking out twenty children and twenty five adults showed up.
What the plan it? Do you even know the concept of your audience?
Like?
Where are they? There are in their mind they're all being homeschooled because they're not getting indoctrinated with the woke ideology in public schools or something. Sure, great, great time y.
Yeah, but they again, it's the free speech not free reach point, that's a that's a great saying, they say.
Exactly, Like, I just I don't know every single time someone is like, but my idea is should have a large audience.
No people don't like them though, Yeah, exactly exactly.
Yeah, your whole thing is you hate pizza, exactly like your audience. You just I don't know who the fuck I'm being surpressed? Yeah, just because everything I'm saying is so wildly unpopular. Why won't it catch on?
Exactly?
It worked for me. But then it's like always funny because you think these people are like it worked for Hitler, right, why can't it was killing it doing the same material right now? Yeah, no one likes it? What the fuck is this? But it's true.
Everybody has a persecution complex, like including like NBA players, Like everybody like thinks because because it's like an optical illusion created by our attention economy where you like hear every bad thing that is ever said about you, and your brain only hears the bad things and not the good things, and so everybody thinks they're being persecuted. And yeah,
the right is probably the biggest defender. Yeah, good luck to you, because they do actually suck as opposed to Joe LMB, who a lot of people like, but like one guy says he sucks and he's like nobody believed in me from the jut right actually sucks at what they're doing. So they're probably hearing a lot more of it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right, Well, Amy, it's been such a pleasure having you on the daily Zeikegeist.
Thank you so much for having me again. I'll see you guys in four years four.
Type four later. Where can people find you? Follow you all that good stuff I have?
Let's see a bunch of stuff on drilled dot media. That's where like the podcast and related writings and stuff are. I also write regularly for The Guardian and The Intercept and then I am on Twitter still at Amy Westervelt.
There you go.
And is there a work of media that you've been enjoying?
Oh my god, have you guys seen I know that, Like we were talking about the writer's strike and how you know it's a bummer that all the TV channels are switching to like nonscripted reality TV. But have you seen Jury Duty?
Yeah?
My god, it's so good.
I love.
No no.
About son in law?
Yeah, now, dude, biodome.
Yeah, Jury Duty killed me.
The streaming shows, yeah.
Yeah, yes, yes, it's so good. I thought it was so good and also like, yeah, just just sort of like endearing and very watchful. So yeah, that's the thing I binged most.
Recently, Miles Where can people find you? Is there a work of media you've been enjoying.
At based web sites at Miles of Gray. If you like basketball talk and you want to hear more about Jack Sad NBA, can check us out on our NBA podcast, Miles and Jack got Mad Boosties or Sad Boosties in this week's episode. And if you like ninety day Fiance, catch me and Sophia Alexandra out on our ninety day show for twenty Day Fiance. It's amazing a couple of meets I like because we were talking about you know,
AI or and then the workers strike. This one is from Carl Sharro at Carl Remarks tweeted, humans doing the hard jobs on minimum wage while the robots write poetry and paint is not the future I wanted. Yeah that felt real, real, Yeah that was spot on. And then Taylor K Phillips at Take k Phillips tweeted, literally, no one understands something more completely than a woman in a meeting who starts a question with so just so I understand Yeah, turns out yeah, yeah, totally amazing.
You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien tweet I've been enjoying at marxist in five to one three? Is that Dayton Ohio.
The five to one three tweeted.
Just screencap of an article that said, these entitled millennials are cheering for a housing market crash. Millennials are actually cheering for a housing market crash on Twitter so they can afford a home. It seems the very image of entitlement. And you just tweeted gaslight me, daddy, you're entitled because you want to be able to afford a house at some point in your life.
Mm hmmm, uh huh yeah.
This is like this kind of goes in line with a lot a lot of things I've heard so many are read more articles like millennials are actually doing better than gen X and boom yeah mm hmm. And you're like, just because the dollar amounts are like higher in certain respects, like I'm sorry, okay, sure, let's go on.
At this stage after like a decade of like hyper inflation.
Yeah, I tried to.
I just have a chart that I have to show my bloomer mom like once a year to remind her that, like where shows, Yeah, like cost of living in wages. I'm like, see that gap, See how the gap cames growing? You know, she's like whoa, because every time I see her, she's like, I don't understand what people we were extended.
I'm like, yeah, it almost seems like an unbelievable reality to be in, right from your perspective, that's what?
Yes, all right, Well, you can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore Obrian. You can find us on Twitter at daily Zegeist. We're at the Daily Zekeeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page or website daily zekeist dot com where we post our episodes and our footnope or we link off to the information that we talked about today's episode, as well as the song we think you might enjoy, Miles, is there a song that you think people might enjoy?
Yeah, I was just listening to this rapper from from the UK, bro jambo j I, a n b O Chinese Vietnamese British rapper with like a prime style. This this track is called monkowk Madness m O n g Kok Madness Uh and it's just dope. Get into it. Uh Jambo coming at you well.
The Daily zeitgeis is production of by Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That is going to do it for us this morning, back this afternoon to tell you what is trending and we will talk to you all then Bye bye bye