Rom-Com Economics, Evil Bank Fail 03.16.23

where I'm at. That's how comfortable I am being wearing a collar. My name is Jack O'Brien aka I wish my name was Shadow and not Jack. I love my parents,

but they are so whack. That is courtesy of Christy Amagucci, Maine Shadows of the Night Patar, in reference to the fact that the name a person's name shadow came up at some point and I mentioned I thought it sounded like a cool name and remember or to DJ named Shadow Stevens from my childhood in the hopes that someone would like write in and be like, you know, you kind of look like a shadow. Maybe you should change

your name to that, you know. The Burner accounts I made to make that comment never really caught on, So instead we just have this AKA thank you Christy Yamagucci Ma. I'm thrilled to be joined by one of the best podcast hosts doing it anywhere, my old friend from the Crack days, a Jeopardy champion, the host of the wonderful podcast secretly incredibly fascinating, which makes him the sif Lord. It is Alex Schmad, thank you and aka the bison wise one. Okay, I'm butter Nugs on the SIF discord.

Heard yesterday's shad, but immediately it was like, here's one that's so thank you. But and I was remissing not saying yesterday, congratulations smiles and her majesty. I'm their wonderful base. Yeah, that's really nice speer helping him. Yeah, it's wonderful having you. I do think siff Lord is gonna stick. It's a perfect match for your just dark heart, the dark energy that you bring to every room that you actually have.

I've always felt a real conflict with the whole like message and deal of the umpire and Star Wars, but then loving brass music great anthm you know, but if you like brass you can't pass on that one. Come on, and as compared to what the rebels are listening to, jizz, isn't that what they called that music? And yes, that's capatically what they call it. Yeah, jizz. Come on, guys, Alex.

We are thrilled, fortunate, blessed to be joined in our third seat by an Emmy nominated host who's worked at The Onion, The Daily Show, advised the Obama White House. He's a New York Times bestselling author, delivered what Brian Williams called one of the greatest ted talks of all time. Is the creator and host of one of the great podcasts of all time, How to Citizen with Baratunde. Please welcome the brilliant and talented baratun Day Thirsty, Hello, Jacko, Alex.

I am most surprised to find out that y'all sold cracked together in the past. Um so yeah, good to be here. Thank you for having me back, Jack and and good to meet you Alex. Way to keep the seat warm, yeah, thank you. Yeah, that's right. We demand a pulse. No robot hosts here, no no live meat. I'm sending in by biometrics every few minutes, just letting people now behind the scenes. Yeah, important to let him now. I've been really enjoying season four. I loved your interview

with Adrian Marie Brown. Thank you, Fractals and Sci Fi How to Citizen as a podcast that makes you feel not worn down by some of the ship that we cover in in the news cycle, that's the goal. And you were there at the stile. I mean you were, You were in the meetings, you were in the room where I was, in the damn room where it happened. Helped it happen, Jack, That's right. Well, that's why I'm

so complimentary. I wouldn't be, even though I love the show if it if I hadn't been there when it started, I would have been jealous and mean and spiteful. I'm so glad. Yes, all right, Barry Tunday, we're gonna get to know you a little bit better in a moment. First, we're gonna tell our listeners a couple of the things

we're talking about today. Credit Swiss shares plunge. We don't usually cover like financial the latest financial happenings, but it does seem like there's something happening in the world of finance. So we're just going to talk about credit Swiss, the Silicon Valley bank, all the turmoil. We we do cover a lot of Switzerland news, but not the bankings mainly Swiss. Yeah, so you're diversifying your Swiss coverage, which is yes, which is that's right? Yeah, Yeah, that's what I've heard. You're

supposed to diversify. Yeah, like like stocks and stuff. Yeah, although everything's sounds from we're gonna talk Netflix is one hundred and fifty million dollars. Romcom, which was just canceled, was supposed to be a Nancy Myers joint for one hundred and fit with a one hundred and fifty million

dollar budget. That's apparently that was her asking price. Netflix wouldn't go, wouldn't budget over one hundred and thirty million, and they were like, no deal, which actually makes sense, Like there there's a nugget in this story that actually makes sense of the astronomical Netflix movie budgets. So we'll we'll talk about they're gon We're gonna that makes sense all of that plenty more. But first, Baritoonda, what is something from your search history? Okay, there's there's too much

in my search history, and I actually maintain it. I don't like being surveiled, but I do like my YouTube recommendation feed to be accurate. So, okay, this is the penundrum which I find myself and a recent search term how to get between the terminals at Dallas Fort Worth International Airport. This just came out of a recent traumatic

incident where I was I barely escaped from Florida. Every time I go to that state, it's very difficult to leave, and then my mere presence there is actually in violation of a lot of the new laws of that Ron DeSantis and crew have passed. So I'm a crime in Florida and so a fugitive and I try to get out and they just try to drag me back in. And in this case, I was trapped in another state with a wonky governor Dallas because American Airlines decided they're

just not in the flying business anymore. Yeah, they're in the shuffle you around to different broken planes business for seventeen straight hours. Yep. Yeah, the options have become limited on the flying space. By the way, I just I was hoping that your search has you said how to I thought you were going to say citizen, Just like, what does that mean? I was like, this is very late to be googling. It's never okay, it's never too late to learn and grow, all right, So don't shame

knowledge seeking. Yes, that's a good point. Or the full searches how to citizen legal in Florida, question mark need to know banging on door? What were you doing? And just like personal business in Florida or I have no personal business in Florida. This was a financial obligation. I was there actually making my PBS show America Outdoors. We're on our second season and we were filming in Florida

along the Swanee River. It was a really beautiful time if you don't count the food options on the side of the road to the fact that Dotler General has monopoly on all retail space. But the people, the nature, the connection to nature and Florida is underrated. It's really beautiful, it really, it really is. I was humbled by my time there, honestly. And I was in North Florida where I have not spent really much time in my life. So it was a voyage of discovery. Yeah, and I

was ready to come home, you know. Yeah, and Fort Worth didn't want to let you. American Airlines at Dallas Fort Worth. We cannot just blame the worst airport in the country. We must also assign responsibility to the worst airline. It's their hub though, right They're like, we want you to come here, we want to see, we want you to see what we've done with the place. It well,

it was, it was. It was exacerbated by the fact that I've had I had experiencing some hip panes and hip injury, and so the size of the airport truly becomes like a health hazard. And you know, it's everything's bigger in Texas. Like it's not just words people say, it's like design principles for worst living. And these these folks were just determined to put me through my paces. My pace was off. So yeah, the whole enterprise was physically an emotionally quite quite painful. I did there were

moments of light. You know, some people helped me out. I had fellow passengers helping carry stuff. I had dudes with the cards helping me try to move through that airport at times, so all all was not lost. Uh, And we started, uh, I guess it would call a hate group. Was like we hate American airlines together, and so that was it just feels like like the one hate group I could support. I definitely don't tend to support hate groups, but this one just feels really justified

by based on evidence, and I'm all about evidence space choices. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I hope they're not a sponsor of your show. They are, but it's okay they I mean they usually give us a pretty wed birth, like an airship should. Yeah. But yeah, I feel like everything in Texas is just contingent, like designed, contingent on the idea that you have access to a pickup truck at all times. I thought I was gonna from goal to gate. They're like, well, you're

gonna want to hoping or pick up? What do you mean? You know you don't travel with a pickup It would I actually my life would have been easier if I had a pickup truck. And like many guns, right, yeah, always, And that feels like the Texas way. Yeah. There was a moment where I was like, maybe I'm just supposed to live here, Maybe I should get a truck and like three guns and just sorry, California, we're done. Yeah,

well this is where I live now. That's always a good feeling when you're traveling and your your brain just says, maybe this is just where we live now. That was because I was like, dude, it was a fifty two minute layover became seventeen hours. Yes, like we got the free hotel thing happened. Yeah, And but at every turn, every turn, something went wrong, something like the hotel I went to. I thought I was smart. I made a reservation using some credit card points because I was like,

everybody's gonna be going to the free hotel. I've got points. I'm gonna say at the hotel right at the airport, because no one thinks of that. And I get there and I'm so excited, and I have my reservations on the I ben prepared for the backlash, for the resistance, for the squashing of myself. It's like, here's my reservation code. We're good. And she's like, that's for tomorrow night, and I was like, no, no, it's for today, March eleventh.

Yet today, because of the beauty of time and the amount of it that American Airlines wasted, today had become Saturday. So I gets to my hotel. We were like two fifteen in the morning. I have to get up at six to try to make the next light out. We get on the plane. It's the third plane we've been on, and the crew was like, we got you. We don't know what happened with those jokers last night. We got you.

And we're like, okay, great, yeah, we like high five, like we think the war is over, you know, like everybody's people are kissing in the aisle. It's great. You know, babies are being conceived, and the captain has to come on the microphone and he's like, folks, I can't believe I have to say this, but something wrong with the plane. So we're gonna need everybody to get off. Ye go to terminal five miles from here and try again. We will get you home. And at this point, babies are

you know, screaming profanities. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah. Google helped a little this helping me understand that airport because the last time I was there, I saw a barber shop in it, like in the terminal, and I was like, no, that's a business for regular life, but if you live there, you do need a haircut. That makes sense, Yeah, thrown

depots in there. I do remember seeing the hotel and being like, what, like, I guess I could see, but but that is a bad sign that the hotel should not be that close, if you shouldn't be like yeah, Gate thirty seven A, Gate thirty seven B highatt regency exactly. Yeah, no, no, these are not the same choices. It's been bad enough for long enough that they built bbcurity. They know, like the whole hotel it's approved because yes, yeah, no nail clippers in the entire hotel. What is something that you

think is overrated? I think the the intelligence of venture capitalists, alright is greatly overrated and unpopular opinion, very popular on

this show. But I feel like because you are plugged into like the tech world, and I don't know, it feels like there is still this I don't know, like understanding that if something doesn't have the VC funding, it's not like a viable idea in a lot of worlds, And just like that, it's I don't know, like, are we coming to the end of this just being the the prerequisite for getting anything off the ground is just massive rounds of like you know, tens of millions of

dollars of funding. I hope so, I think so. I some of my best friends are vcs. By the way, this is like vcism but they've had an outside influence on some major challenges and failures in our society. Hello, second largest bank collapse in US history, And and that was led by vcs who are who present themselves as these like very rational actors, smarter than everybody else, optimizing efficiency,

sound decision making. And these fools just freaked the hell out and and called and and instigated a bank run and and and truly rational behavior. We're like, keep calm, carry on, it's gonna be okay. Even though Silicon Valley Bank had some issues, it didn't need to go completely belly up. It didn't need to like drain the insurance fund and end up getting bailed out by by all that money. Because people took out forty two billion dollars

in a single day. That's that's record setting panic. You know, you can measure the size of the panic in billions. So so these guys, you know, overfund things that don't need it. Meanwhile, a lot of the solutions we do

need and climate in other areas are not funded. Housings very underfunded, and their supposed genius is also just a byproduct of like zero interest rate policies where money's free, right, and so they have to like chase the return somewhere, so they throw it into like a high speed burrito delivery by drone service and call it innovation. And then and then we're supposed to put them in charge of like schools and healthcare. Yeah, because to take it all

over the tax rates too low. You know, like there's there's a there's other things to do with that resource and other things to do with our adoration than just lauded on people who got ucky it hooped each other up. Right, It feels like a lot of luck, a lot of hooking each other up, and a lot of then retroactively turning that into like a great by autobiography about like how they did it all against the odds, pulled myself

up by these golden shoe shrafts. I indhered it from my daddy, right, But I don't know just in general, like because I this feels like a really good intersection of you know what you talk about, which is like, you know, maintaining hope, maintaining an active relationship to our democracy. Died at the Dallas Fort Worth Internet eleven tenth because

it was a two day experience. But let's continue with your Okay, thank you, Yes, thank you for clarifying the But like it just feels like a lot of these stories that we're covering day and day out, when it comes to climate, when it comes to housing, when it comes to even like crime, that like it's all like this massive like weather system of people chasing profits that we're all just like kind of attached to and like nobody really has control over and it's just out there

doing its thing and people are kind of left to make sense of the results. But I don't know, it feels sort of out of control, and like it like, how do you how do you think about you know, impacting change and like actually like having power in a society that is like so much driven by like VC concerns and profitability and just you know, all of that stuff. Yeah, I try to take a deep breath and know that you know, some level of this two shall pass. Know

that we're not totally powerless. That there have been people in other places in the world right now and other moments in time throughout our history who've had a lot less resource than the average you know, us dweller today and have multiplied and found more power with others. You know, they have done the thing we try to talk about on the podcast. They have citizened as a version i'd like a legal lawyer thing, but as a like people powered,

self governing thing. And and so you know, VC's gonna VC, and and not all do it in the same way. And there are some who recognize, oh, we should be investing in the people we've divested from for many generations. The returns are probably better because they're literally undervalued assets as opposed to chasing the Stanford dropout again and again and again. And then I think about and try to find other stories. You know this, I feel like we're I feel like I'm drowning in a wave of really

debilitating daily news. Yeah, it's just like everything's busted. It's corruption everywhere. The politicians are fighting the wealthier stealing from there like it's just bad. It's just bad. And then the bats or lab employees are trying to kill us, right like congressor's fighting over all of that too, And that then that the broader truth, I guess, the deeper true, that there's a lot of what we look for and what we think we need we already have in pockets.

And there's there's people experimenting with other ways to be so with money, you know, and economic stuff. Like we have someone on our show this week, Kate Rayworth, who's come up with a whole system called donut economics, which is delicious because who doesn't like donuts. I'm already in people who hate America. But otherwise, like good humans love doughnuts. They're endlessly you know, circular fun. But you know, how

could we construct like profits aren't bad? Seeking them isn't evil or destruct dive until it is, until it's the only thing, and it kind of pushes out all other considerations. So the donut economics thing says, take an image of a donut. There's an outer you know, limit to what defines a donut, and an inner limit where there's the

whole and in between you got tasty goodness. But that outer limits earth and like planetary limitations, and we can't just grow infinitely past those limitations or that's like cancer risk, malignant growth that destroys the host and then the inner circles like human dignity. There's just some basic stuff we all need, housing, healthcare, food, Yagadi's right, and so we each get those things and the latest tesla without the

mercurial CEO. And then in between, we can play. We can have a lot of fun, we can fund things, we can be silly, we can have dance parties, we

can indulge, but respecting boundaries to boundaries. Yeah, and so a lot of what is exploding, you know, in the sense, especially in economic stuff, is we're just out of balance and we've optimized for one particular performance indicator without regard to almost anything else, and so we're suffering for it, our planet suffering, and our ability to live on the ground that stays still under us and doesn't slide away

or burn up is also at risk too. So there's good stories out there, there's other ways to see the world and other ways to create that world that we want to live in, and so I'm trying to shift my attention and focus to those instead of just dwelling on the crisis. Yeah, crises, that makes sense. Yeah. I also I just like that you also make an outdoors show.

I would I would think that helps in a separate way as well, Like you literally touch grass, like they say on the internet, you go and see that the manatees are still there, and we haven't lost that yet, Alex Yo, So it's not separate at all. It's it's literally connected. You know, Jack will remember this from the early days of High the Citizen. We have these four principles of what it means as a verb. It means you participate. It means you best in relationships with yourself

with others in the planet around you. It means you understand power, means you value the collective. But that connection with nature, that's that's a part of how we are part of any community. And I get to make a whole show focused on that, which isn't technically a part of the How the Citizen world, but it's part of my world, and I think it's you know, it's part of ours. And a week ago today, is it a week ago to day? Yeah, I was swimming with manatees

that you're in the water. Yeah, in Florida, in the springs on the Swanee River, and we didn't know, like we have been hunting is the wrong word? Been searching for manatees with this group of sciences would have been such a turn. So we were out hunting. Man, we're on a manatee hunt. And before we you know, slarter them. I swam with some of them. Just might know we were.

These scientists have made it their mission to protect these beautiful, awkward, ginormous creatures, so funny, so graceful, so weird looking, and we didn't spot. We spent all the ey kayaked ten miles searching for manatees with this biologist. My shoulders are burning, and uh, we think, oh, that's a rap. We're having lunch and we get a call there's manatees at the springs, right across from the lunch spot where we started. So

they were trolling us. Uh, And we went over and showed them what's what and got some great photos and they came right up to me, and they're really beautiful and majestics. And it's a humbling it's a humbling experience to like swim with a sea cow. Ye, it's like funny. Look, it's a cartoonish creature and also beautiful and graceful and reminding me of our connection. There's a lot more life

than just ours, truly, a like living cartoon character. Just yeah, what was such a fun so great that they exist? It is It is a good workfort of people's citizening. Yes, you know they should continent in you too. The only reason we knew they were there was because there's a guy who sits by the springs. He's like a big white bearded dude, and he loves the river and he loves manatees and he just like he did that. If you see something, say something like an he phoned, like

the manatee team we got. Man, it's like, there's there's three of them over here, the company you might want to get over here, and uh so that that's they're you know, they were part of the community, you know, of the people who depend on this river. I think that was was beautiful. That is there's also something really joyful about and alert to come see manates like he will succeed in getting there in time. I feel like, I know, but we all get much worse alerts on

our phone than that. So I yeah, for a moment, I was mana tuneday there. All right, let's take a quick break, we'll come back. We'll find out what you think is under it. We'll be in there and we're back. And I loved that American Airlines ad you just ran that with. Yeah, so well, you know, they give good haircuts. It's mainly an advertisement for the barbershops. Yeah, so it's sort of like a speakeasy, you go through the plane

into the chair. You know that they're trying to build their own communities of people, travelers who then become workers for What is something that you think is underrated? I think the movie The Woman King is rated. I I just loved it way more than I expected. I saw the poster and I was just confused. I had no idea what it was about. I hadn't read anything about it, hadn't heard anything about it. And I saw a little blurb and went to see it with my wife and

we were both rocked by this story. And so I think every actor in that, but you know, especially the women actors and the youngest one and Viola Davis, they all just crushed. And there's this beautiful symbolic representation of like civil war within you know, an African community, within

a Black community. I love the honesty of the whole, like the way they treated the history of enslavement, you know, to the Americas and the participation of African nations and selling you know, some of their own people or as they saw them, their enemies people, you know, into bondage. That's that's like a third rail that a lot of folks don't talk about women warriors, you know, we don't hear that story. It's it was like a real life Wakonda. Yeah, and I love Black Panther and I love Wakanda, and

a fiction is very powerful. But to have like a factual ish, you know, representation of a kingdom that truly existed, I found to be really really powerful as well. So love that movie. Was sad that the campaign of the two Leslie thing I seem to have bumped it from the slot of positive denominations, and so I wanted to give some attention to that. It really felt like a shoeing for like a bunch of Oscar attention, let alone like just none, which was yeah, frustrated, underrated. People should

check out The Woman King. Yeah, Gina Prince Biswood who made Loving Basketball The Old Guard, which we covered on this that I really like The Old Guard by the way. Yeah, it was really fun. It also like hit right when we were getting into the pandemic and like shut down and so we were like, we're just talking about things that are streaming on the data side, guys right now. And that was a really fun one. But yeah, she made The Woman King. It's really really cool. Yeah, I

appreciate this tip. I'm not in the habit of being in theaters again yet. I just haven't gotten going out of and so other than everything everywhere all at once, which we stream, I've just missed all the new movies lately. So that's good enough. Yeah, well, you can still see Top Gun Maverick for the next three years. I think we're there this contract with the exhibitors, and yeah, you'll be alone in the theater by that point. But it's some things are beautiful on the big screen. Yeah, you

don't have to rent the theater anymore. Top Guns saved movie theaters at gunpoint. That's very Americans. All Right, it's time for our famous segment, stock corner, Jack's stock corner, where I talk about all the happenings. There's the famous intro sound bit. All right. So, Credit Sweez shares plunged yesterday by roughly twenty five percent, which caused other bank

stocks to fall. This was sparked in part by the fact that their largest shareholder, Saudi National Bank, publicly stated it wouldn't beef up its investment, and a lot of people are framing it as a piece with the recent bank failure in the US, and there's some debate, but people think that they've actually been that this is something

that's been ongoing. Maybe there is, like just in the sense that these are all humans responding to stimulus and one bank failed and they're like, you know, there's panic in the air. Maybe it's related in that way. But Credit Sueee has been struggling for years following a steady stream of customers pulling their money, which has allegedly slowed

but not stopped according to even their CEO. And like the reasons why customers keep pulling money is that they are constantly embroiled in scandals, which have included admitting to defrauding investors as well as being accused of helping to launder money on behalf of the Bulgarian mafia, of all the mafias like that. I mean, look, I'm not trying to you know, I'm not even gonna say it because I don't want to be in the wrong side of anyone. I respect bull mafias equally, but just ye, just the

word the word having Bulgarian mafia throw on top. Yeah, and then also serving clients involved in drug trafficking and torture. So did they take a hippocritic banking oath where they like agree to serve anyone like criminals, mafio, so it's like we bank with anybody. It's a yeah, the commitment. This also just more countries than I expected, Like why why is the Swiss credit sweet bank mainly run by a Saudi bank and then also funding the Bulgarian mafia, Like like this is a real set of pieces of

string across a map with pushpins that I did not expect. Yeah, it is, It's very true, Alex. Yeah, it's almost like some kind of global conspiracy. But I don't know, I guess so as we're seeing things like this, and again, it just feels like this weather system if you like, anytime I see like one of the stock channels, the finance channels, it really feels like it's just one big, like wet weather channel where they're just like, oh, you know,

just responding to stimulant. There's like the predictions are you know, all over the place, and like, I guess, I'm just wondering, do you see the ideas that you cover and you know, you guys talked in the Adrian Marie Brown interview about fractals and like this idea of like small changes that can like kind of move up and like become kind of replicate themselves over large swaths of Like people like, are you seeing pick up for any of these progressive

ideas that aren't just purely driven by profit like the outside outside of this system, because it does feel like there's going to be an opportunity as the these things fail more and more in the coming years. Like it feels like the economy is not in a great place for long term and so no, we we're really um as as the finance people would say, we're highly levered, right, we are in there. We have a lot of debt, and our economy and the US in particular the West

in general powered by consumption. So which is you know, a consumptive addiction, Like we have to keep consumers confidence up in consumer spending up. Otherwise the whole game kind of falls apart, and it's a confidence game. You know, if we our money is not all in the bank, right, I'm not trying to stir up shit. That's just like a mathematical fact. We never all wanted out at the

same time. So we can perpetuate stability based on that trust and faith in the full credit you know of of the governments that backed these banks, but that that trust is as eroted. So I am seeing evidence of other systems of trust. Let me talk to you about cryptocurrency and it's a great opportunity. And so yeah, we've got another sponsor lost. Oh boy, I tell you what. No, I you know the donut economics thing that I mentioned earlier with Kate Rayworth. That's not just like an academic

out there giving Ted talks about possible ideas. There are cities, you know, Barcelona, Amsterdam, cities in the US as well, who have started to adopt a view of economics that accounts for some of these limits a lower limit and an upper limit, and tries to set up new measurements. I mean, we have a measurement of inflation, we have a measurement of gross domestic product. We have a really questionable measurement of employment and unemployment, and those are kind

of like the levers that we use. And then we have a big break and gas pedal on interest rates. FED imposes and the president party kind of doesn't matter, like the Fed's going to do their thing. And there's there's a lot more ways we could calibrate our relationship with money and with value, and I even I joke a little bit about crypto. But we had an episode

with this web three community friends with benefits. The mayor of that group just talking about how they've set up the community not to necessarily like buy and trade the coins and like get rich off of membership, which is speculation and kind of ponzi ish. Really thinking about a membership club and like how you value members how you recognize that value, how you would encourage a member to bring the cool stuff they want to build to the group. You know, it's like I have an idea, I want

to do it. I'm gonna ue all by myself because I don't wan anybody else to get paid off of it. Like there's one way to approach it. Or I could bring it to the crew, my family. Maybe it's been a little club and get help and then we share in that it's still versions of capitalism them. I'm not promoting a communist way of thinking, though it would be interpreted that way by people who fear losing control over

the current system. But there's other ways to value our relationships and to credit people for what they offer and our quote unquote economy now doesn't do that very well. We had a lot of uncompensated labor by by women and by moms and my parents in general. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, Jackie, is you should get paid for this parent teacher meeting that you're going today. Absolutely, that's yeah. I mean I told you, I do the work.

I bring my own spreadsheet to show them. You have a shirt with a collar, you told us, and it's not normal for you. So you probably bought a shirt. You know how hard it is for me to keep this shirt on it. I have so many T shirts that are more comfortable than this button. So your cause playing responsible, Dad's right and exactly. So, yeah, there's there's other ways of of us relating to to the money thing,

to the economy thing. We had a whole season of our podcast on a season two was all about, you know how the citizen through the economy. It's like hard to show up in citizen when you can't pay to bills, and so what are some other ways we can relate to that that don't involve like violent revolution. Turns out there's a lot of space between violent revolution and what we're living through right now. A lot of peaceful possibilities. Yeah,

that's really interesting. And I'm also thinking about all the different institutions and models you bring up on how it seems like all of them have less support than banks. Like the past week or so has really taught me that the government is a first responder if a bank needs something like they are on the ball, they're sliding down the pole of the fire station. They are ready to go. Yeah, that's a great observation, a sad truth, you know behind it there, you know the way we

deal with poverty. There's there's a lot of people struggling, and a lot of folks are made to feel like it's their fault. Yes, it's like, oh, you don't have enough to feed your kids, you're a bad mom or a bad parent, or maybe you're just living in a bad economic situation. Maybe there's no opportunities where you are. Maybe the hoops that the government puts you through that they didn't put you know, the depositors of Silicon Valley Bank through, could be realigned. It's very expensive to be

poor in this country. The amount of paperwork involved in it. You'd need a full time executive assistant just to be able to afford being poor. You know, to get all the benefits you're allegedly due and and so just giving people money in terms of you know, guaranteed income at certain levels is something that works. We featured, you know, folks who have those kind of programs running as well out of Oakland and out of the southeast of the US. Yeah.

The fact that the US government basically fired the entire bureaucracy that is like was built to help you with the stuff, like with all the paperwork, with like doing your taxes as way hard you're here than anywhere else, and just it's like automatic applying. Yeah. Yeah, they said, here's what happens. You get paid, and whoever pays you has to tell the government. And at the end of the year, the government asks you how much did you

get paid? And you're like, but you already, you're already, you're you're literally it's in the cloud, bro, Like it's your cloud, like you know, you tell me. And then we've created a whole industry of dodging and fudging and deducting and accounting for just for most people. It's not required, it shouldn't be required, and it's making some people very wealthy. Yeah, but it's making most of us, you know, poorer in

experience and in hard money. Yeah, h R and Block are making a killing the rest of us as they lobbied against simplification. Yeah, of course, just like the people who ran Silicon Valley Bank lobbied against rules that might have prevented you know, them from taking these risky positions, which you know, stap the confidence in their holdings we keep. It's like we're getting I'm gonna I'm gonna expand this positively, Jack Alex. We are being given repeat opportunities to learn

a certain lesson. Yeah, isn't that I've learned the hell out of that lesson. I am on board. I need some other people to learn that lesson. And I just I do feel like as like you know, just reading like the tea leaves of the zeitgeist. Like you know, you guys talked about on your podcast that like we are no longer at the place where we're waiting to

see the effects of climate change. We are now in a world where you are either privileged enough to not be like dealing with the effects of climate change every day, or you are feeling them, and you're like there there is a tension there, there's a tension between like the conversations that we're having and the existing order of people who are just chasing profit, like the future be damned, and like I'm also seeing you know, even though we were never huge fans of Elon Musk, like his kind

of embracing of like these like kind of right wing memes and talking points, Like I'm wondering if there's going to be more of a like they're going to build out a pseudo intellectual like lattice work that like I think they already have and I think it's just like getting more and more popular, this like right word shift of like the people who are in control. Do you do you like see all that stuff just being connected

in some ways, Yeah, there is a connection. And the wealthy and white inheritor of South Africa is a perfect avacar for this moment. Is he really? Is he really? Is that the that infrastructure ideological It shows up in a place like Hilldale College, which is very well funded and promoting from an academic lens, anti critical race theory, anti wokeness. So I guess pro sleepness right for being Yeah we are stop woke, stay asleep, Okay, okay, Governor,

the best American is asleep American. And you know, there's a lot of incentive and benefit in the short term for folks to try to preserve and protect something that only accrues value to a few. Yeah, and if you tell the story the right way, the real feeling of loss that a lot of us feel, not just liberals like concerns, all kinds of people are experiencing a sense

of dramatic change, dispossession and loss. The story you tell to explain it is how most people believe it happened, right, And so there's an infrastructure of storytelling to say it's a Muslim Mexican from China who is the reason that your gas prices are really high right now, the reason that you can't afford milk, the reason that things just don't feel the way they used to, the reason there's more different folks in your neighborhood now, the reason there's

no Jesus. And this, like the instability with feeling, has other explanations, ones I think are much more sound, and ones that give us an opportunity to try to find stability in all this change. But folks like Elon, you know, they are addicted to attention, and that gets attention right now, that counter narrative, that transgressive tone and vibe. It's very very wealthy people complaining that they don't have a voice. Yeah, the guy who social media network, it's like I can't

be heard. Yeah no, But and he is, you know, to someone who is inherited advantage and privilege, anything smacking of equality feels like oppression, right, And so this guy, he really is an extraordinary avatar for that that psychology, that frame of mind which says, I rich, the EO of four companies need a fifth or three companies need a fourth, And I'm going to buy a vocal platform. And even when I sit at top that if everybody doesn't see all of my tweets, I'm going to literally

re engineer it. People are going to get fired, yes, and the people who remain are going to stay up all night and hack together a solution so that I maintain my sense of security and value. Now that the real twis is like I identify with that. I don't like feeling insecure or less valuable. I just don't have the means to impose that in the world, you know, in the way that Elon does. And I think it'd be a really destructive world if we all chose to use our power that way. So his use of power

like this really is sad. It actually just deepens the truth of his insecurity. Like you're so fragile that you had to spend billions of dollars, some of your own, a lot of other people you had to displace a bunch of work or some of whom have medical conditions and healthcare needs and visa requirements. Right, you have to destroy a ton of economic value because you're so weak feeling man, I'm sorry. Yeah, that's actually a really sad

existence and is nothing to be emulated. There's nothing exciting or proud about that. That's actually someone who's deeply hurt, right, Yeah, so let's give him a hug, you know it's gonna be Elon a big hug, and then take his money and give it to poor people. Yeah, hug and reach into a pocket. Just yes, that's easy, two steps. No,

I that is so dead on. Like what when we were talking about times when news is hard or is unpleasant to consume, Like, I feel like a lot of news in the past few years has been about like deeply sad, unwarped dudes like Elon musk or like, like there's no point detailing Donald Trump's ways where he is that way, but like he used to call places with rumors about what a great guy he is under a fake name, you know. I mean, like, that's just it's just sad. Even if you agree with everything he's into,

that is also a bummer about him. That's not good. No, I think there is. There are wounded little boys running around in man suits, yeah, inflicting their wounds on the world, and that that's infuriating And there's a part of me that just wants to shame people for that. It's like, how dare you? You should know better? Like you have resources you can you can buy better help, you know, instead of buying Twitter, buy the better health therapy platform

and work on your ship, you know what I mean. God, But um, that's not very compassionate and I don't think that actually helps. And I think you know, you've brought

up Adrian and Rebrown a few times. Jack, I'll appreciate that this conversation about fractals that we had wasn't just some esoteric chat about you know, artistic patterns in the world, but there's there's some mathematical realities that like very small level patterns repeat at very large scales, and we can see it in this kind of AI looking art, but we can also see it in biological structure, and I

think in behavior. You know, it starts at home. Like Trump came from a house, he came from a neighborhood, he came from a school. He came from TV shows where they were producers and executives who all modeled or encouraged or at a minimum allowed this behavior such that we all get to experience it at the large scale, right, And so the reverse has to be true too, if we concede more compassion. You know, these these dudes that shoot up these schools and theaters and everything, a lot

of them are hurting. I heard one interview with this kid, and he's not It was a quote he's like he was in such depressive pain, and he was like, I guess I have to be a school shooter, right right, Like it was like a job description that he was destined to because of his pained emotional state. And so like that's when outcome our guests. I have to be

mean like Donald Trump. I guess I have to be callous like Elon Musk because that's what you do with your pain, because we're not educating, you know, ourselves on other ways to handle it. So it's it's real ugly and nasty, and I want to be super I am really frustrated at it, but I'm also like I've felt those feelings myself too. Yeah, And I'd be lying if I said that, like I'm that different from Elon Muskin.

We're still both human beings. Yeah. Again, I just don't have the wherewithal the resources to act out the way he does. And and for many of us, we would be met with a different response if we did. Yeah, like somebody would smack me down well before I made it to the Elon level of the game. Oh no, you have different rules. You have different rules. You can't do that. Yeah. We talked like all the way back on the Cracked podcasts about when Trump was just running

for president. We were talking about how it seemed like this narcissistic personality disorder was the new like cheap code for American fame and capitalism. And I think we've seen

that like that. That's really where the fractals thing makes sense to me, is that at a very personal level, like you said, thinking about what all the things that happened in his life to shape him into that person, but then that just getting exploded and turning our entire civilization like that, how like the nervous system of our nation into like a replica of what what he values

and what is broken inside of him. But you know, we we've definitely seen in other times, like you were saying earlier, like we've seen in other time periods the opposite that, like people who have great values and great courage can then lead entire movements that have very small and simple beginnings, so and and and without. You know, it doesn't require celebrity or like the scale of millions right for us to ex experience that. We can do

it now, yeah, right, like we can show up. You know, there's I had moments in my painful literally painful interaction with this airline, with this airport of you know, I feel on my inner elon like I didn't pay for this, right, this is I don't deserve to be treated like this is. This is aft Uba and I deserve and me me and and I felt that a lot. And that's not like every moment I'm all like zen about it. But there are times when I could also look to my

fellow passengers and we just had to laugh. Yeah, and being I was exhausted with the fury, and there was another emotion we could tap into and feeling that connection, like we're sharing this moment together and seeing people help each other, and you know, people like I look like I'm very able bodied, and folks had to be paying attention to know that I was struggling, and it almost brought me to tears to have like someone much older than me help me with my and that's just like, man,

I'm not used to asking for help. Yeah, it makes me feel a certain type of dependency or weakness. And then but we feel stronger together when we acknowledge that. And so like it was a gift to that dude to let him help me, And that was his way of participating in this moment in a way that maybe channeled his rage into something more productive, which is like

mutual aid instead. So they're you know, Gandhi's great. You know what I'm saying, Like Obama on a good day, right, you know, Michelle better, But like there's somebody at your kids' school, Jack, Right, there's somebody who lives next to you, Alex, Like there's somebody maybe in each of our homes who you know, is already giving us an opportunity or showing us, you know, how to model that energy that we do want to

see replicated at the larger scale. And if we all show up that way, we'll produce, you know, something that's the inverse of a of a musk or a trump. Yeah, well,

so let's let's go. Y's right. And and also with all the men we've been talking about, Like our our friend Jason Purgeon was posting the other day about the idea that men, especially American men, are just kind of taught that asking for help in any way makes you a burden on other people and is really discuriated, and so like it seems to develop a lot of these negative figures being male, and also then as the rest of us, if we're male, I think it's good to

be cognizant of that extra barrier we might be carrying to doing this kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, we can put some of that burden down. It's very uh, it's very weak to be unwilling to acknowledge moments of weakness. Yeah, yeah, it turns out it's it's yeah, actually turns on itself.

And so yeah, there's been many men. I'm thinking about Creed right now, which I haven't seen yet, but John at the Major's Michael B. Jordan, all these you know, photos and posters of them embracing have flowers and stuff and still being jacked. Right, Like, masculinity is much more

holistic than um. Then we've been miseducated into believing, and especially you know, as a black dude, like we've been heaped upon with a lot of ideas of what our masculinity and brutality is supposed to be aka the same thing, right, But there's every every flavor of man is up against

some image that isn't realistic. It's it's this hyper real and stereotypical and damaging, whether it's like homosexual, heterosexual, whether it's softness versus hardness, whether it's yeah, it's intellectual pursuit versus physical pursuit, Like manhood is all that. Yeah, we just started a movement, yak at us. Manhood is all that. I mean. All right, thank you guys both for for sharing all that. Let's take a quick break and we'll

be back to talk about Netflix real quick. We'll be right back and we're back I don't know if you guys can hear the parent teacher conference means the kids are home and they are in the back expressing, expressing themselves. I think it might, Um, Alex, I don't hear anything, do you. I don't hear anything, though, Yeah, this might. This is the moment Jack just admitted that my kids aren't real. It's no, it's okay, like you hear them in your head and that's cool. He might, he might

need a little rest, that's right. There's nothing weak about admitting that. Jack, Very manly of you. Yeah, so real quick. Because we had talked about the fact that there was a Netflix one hundred and fifty million dollar rom com that was being ordered directed by romantic comedy titan Nancy Myers, who directed movies like It's Complicated, The Holiday, The Father of the Bride, and the budget just didn't really make sense to me, just because I'd never heard of a

roncom being at that budget. Right, it's not like they need a lot of like cgi and cranes. Yeah, you know, going to Budapest, Like, it's not mission impossible. So our writer J. M McNabb went and did some research on this because, like, whoa whoa can I just pause you right there, Jack, You have someone on staff who goes in researches that does before we talk about believe it. Okay, that is way too responsible. He does a great job fascinating any Canadians, so he's not swept up in all

this bullshit. You know, he's got a great perspective on everything. The listeners will be hearing from him in the trending episode I think later today or nice. I do like imagining Canadian information comes from some pristine spring in the north, like some beautiful well. I always thought it was an

old Canadian information. I always thought it was funny. Canadians had like some of the funniest people when it came to making observations or you know, creating characters based around like things that we thought of as stereotypically like American pop culture, and like I think there is like having that remove and just being like, well this is absurd from from a very young age is probably probably helpful.

But anyways, he pointed out that you know that while the Romcom Ticket to Paradise with George Clooney and Julia Roberts cost sixty million dollars, so that's less than half of what Netflix was even offered huge names, right. So, but the thing that's happening here is in a theatrical movie, they can give these movie stars like points on like a portion of the profit. So that keeps the budget the back end points on the back end maybe, And so that's how these budgets stay low, whereas with Netflix

they do not do that. And so everybody has to be paid up front. And that's why these Netflix budgets are like so wild, like yeah, so that you have to get paid up front all the money you might ever make for the life of the film exactly. So then what I would love to see from your fancy Canadian is, you know, four to sixty million dollars you know, upfront fee in the traditional model, Like what's that back

end at up too? Sure? And for the for the kind of like the total payout associated with the lifetime budget, if you will. Yeah, and Netflix, the lifetime budget happens in a moment in a traditional film, it happens over let's say fifteen years maybe, So what's the expected value of a fifteen years And let's see if if your neighbor to the north can handle I would guess It's probably like in the case of Ticket to Paradise, they

probably were getting each like probably thirty million. On top of like, I think that budget probably would have been more like, if it was being made for Netflix, would have been more like one hundred and one hundred million.

If only we had a way to know these things, right, Yeah, well, well, I mean I'm using the Netflix's proposed budget for this Nancy Myers film was one hundred and thirty million, and she was like, I need it to be one hundred and fifty million, and they were like deals off, So they had that number was apparently coming from somewhere on their end. Do you think that that Nancy Myers and our team regret holding that line. I don't know that.

Did you think like Netflix might have counted You think, oh, they'll counter yeah, and they're like and there's like, no, we're good. We actually told you one thirty you meant

it anyways, good luck at h Yeah. But so a lot of people were making wonder if if like this story is almost a trailer for this future movie whenever, you know what I mean, Like this is the origin story of this thing like this, it was like the movie too amazing for Netflix, and like, now I care about I just wanted they should call it watch what we did with the extra twenty really good? That's right? I mean I would watch that. I'd be like, I'm so curious, like how how this how this math sound?

As a as a VC might say, Yeah, absolutely, it's it's the same movie, but iron Man walks through one time just really quickly, right, yeah, And they have insane music scory, you know, it's like they licensed everything. One of the dates takes place on the Helly Carrier from the Avengers because Scarlett Johansson was supposed to be in it, So it only makes sense, all right, Well, baritone day, such a pleasure having you on the Daily's I used as always, where can people find you? Follow you, hear

you all that good stuff? They can find me on the internet wherever are found? I am, I am all of them. I've made sure. But you know the show is how to Citizen. That's the most current accessible thing, how to Citizen dot com. And they're obviously listening to a great podcast right now. So just flip that dial, like the Jen Alpas would say, and tune into the how to Citizen jam on that and I write at Puck.

We didn't talk anything about that, but I do a lot of long form writing over there, and I'm really having fun exploring topics of artificial intelligence plus racism, which sometimes they're in the same article. Who yeah. Otherwise, just you know, smile, be grateful for things, and take it easy on yourself. The world is hard enough. Yeah, yeah. Is there a work of media that has been allowing you to take it easy on yourself? All right? So ain't no Mountain high enough? As performed by Marvin Gay

and Tammy Terrell. This song almost came out of a divine inspiration moment. All roads lead back to Dallas Fort Worth in an anial airport. Okay, So I'm like storming through this airport in pain and anger for the last plane change, and I click my little air pod because I'm fancy to resume listening to a podcast about the history of racism masquerading as concerned for abortion by the

evangelical base in this country. Really light stuff, perfect for the mood I was in there, you go, and and my phone was like, you don't need to hear that, you need to hear this, And for I don't know why this happened, but this song just started playing in stereo on my head, and it was like, ain't no no mountain high enough, aint no Violet know enough to keep me from you? And it was just it was great.

It was a real mood. Booster reminded me that you know, whatever experience we're having, we can shift, you know, the experience of it, even a very negative one. And I found myself smiling, and I sent my wife the song. I was like, I'm going through all this for you, but I said I love you, know, and she took it with love. Yeah, gotten, if it weren't for you, I wouldn't be going through. I didn't say that if nothing can keep me from you, even this black hole

of an airport and this joke of an airline. So I recommend that there's a great YouTube video of the two of them actually singing it. But you can find it on your streamer of choice, whatever you already pay for have free access to, and enjoy yourself. There you go, Alex Schmidt, what a pleasure of having you as co host for these last couple of days. Where can people

find you? Follow you all that good stuff? Yeah, it's been such a joy being here and uh and yeah, I Make Secretly incredibly fascinating the podcast with my cost Katie Golden of Creature, Feature Fame and other things. Really love making that. If you search secretly in your podcast app, you'll find it. And I don't think I said yesterday. I've been writing a monthly column for one nine hundred hotdog dot com, which is a wonderful comedy website if you miss how comedy websites used to be. It's a

really good one. And it has the wackiest name of come Across. Yeah. That that's great. I'm definitely checking that out. That's yeah, you reminding me of Internet Comedy of Your just with that title, so yeah, fantastic. Yeah, it's from some of the great comedy writers of Internet of Your So that's awesome. Yeah. Oh and media tip, I've really been enjoying Gilmore. Girls had never seen it. It's great.

It's streaming on Netflix under the US. Nice. All right, you can find yeah Jack, where can we find you? I mean obviously little old me. Yeah, after you can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien here twice a day over on Miles and Jack Got Matt Boosties our weekly NBA podcast, And yeah, I've been enjoying secretly incredibly fascinating and how to citizen look at this panderer. It's great. Look man, I have a lot of fun here with a lot of podcasts, but it's food for

the soul. Both of them highly it's great. Go check them out. You can find us on Twitter at daily zeke We're at the Daily Zekeeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page and a website, Daily zekeeist dot com where we post our episodes and our footnotes where we link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode, as well as a song that we think you might enjoy. Super producer Justin is there a

song that you think people might enjoy on this Thursday morning. Yeah, considering our discussion of capitalism and uncompensate to labor and the fucked up tax system running rampant, I thought of this song. It has a Peter Gabriel Pink Floyd eighties white guy based type of vibe. It sounds like the sounds like the opening of a modern day Miami Vice and it repeats the line money ain't no good to me and it's it's great. So you can check the song out it's called Money by Leisure and you can

find that song in the footnotes foot notes. The Daily Zeke is a production by Heart Radio. For more podcast from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That's going to do it for us this morning, back this afternoon to tell you what's trending, and we'll talk y' all, then fight. H m hm