MJGMB #64: NBA Finals and Big Jokic Energy with Michael Lee

Well, it looks like we have a champion, and it's the Denver Nuggets. They have won twenty twenty three NBA title with a four to one series victory over the Miami Heat. We're gonna discuss the series, Yo kitch in the All Time Discussion and play any more with Washington Post Michael Lee on today's episode.

I'm Miles Gray and I'm Jack O'Brien.

And this is Miles Jack.

Oh.

I like that one.

That was good.

This is harmonic. I would say that intro.

Exactly. That's how we goes three years and one.

Davis got blue grow here you go and be driving spinning.

Katie Curry a three.

Steph Curry from the Child again.

Be nice with the tell shut time what you got.

Yes, Michael Lee from the Washington Post, thank you so much, Sports enterprise reporter based in Philly. You've been writing about the league for.

Over twenty years. Now about your twenty years.

Since two thousand and two.

Okay, wow, call that over two decades. Welcome to the show Man. Thank you for joining us.

Hey, thanks for having me on. I'm glad you guys that sent the invite.

Oh yeah, yeah, of course, of course, of course, season's over though, it is it is we've arrived, that arrived at the end a little sad.

Yeah, yeah, as any season ending is.

But I feel like the best team won.

Like the team that was absolutely the best team from not just in this series, but probably the best team all season came out on top.

Absolutely.

I mean, I don't I'm not as active on Twitter as I used to be.

They used to be very active on Twitter.

But I do remember like saying in February that Denver Youngis are the best team in the NBA, but nobody.

Was willing to admit it.

Yeah, yeah, like nobody wants.

To admit it, but they are the best team.

And it wasn't just that, Like Jamal Murray was starting to find himself because you know, it takes a while to come back from that knee injury and gain trust in it and like so, but his production started to pick up. Yeah, look a little more like his old self. And Aaron Gordon was looking like a borderline All Star, like a little buzz that he could be the second Nugget to make it, and it was just like all

What they're bringing and admire them for the error that they're in.

You know, one thing that always bothers me, especially after the championship, is that we do lists and I'm.

Sure you guys have a list.

We list free, list free, and we and we.

Compare guys and rank guys and do all these things that really just take it away from our ability to.

Appreciate what we just saw.

Yeah, like what we just saw from Jokic was an all time performance. I don't want to sit back and compare it to a chem Olaji want right.

We we have typically resisted the conversations around like where does he fit?

Like and super.

Producer Jabbari almost got me with this this week. He was like, all right, this is the question. This is a conversation everyone's having. Is he on the top five centers list? And I took the bait. I wrote up a big thing. But I do feel deep down, no, no, no, I do feel deep down that like he's playing a different sport. This is a difference, like not necessarily different, but the game is so different.

If you were like having.

The conversation of like if he traveled into a time machine like we always talk about on this show that like basketball is progressive, and like the players build their games on top of the games of the players in the past. The shot making has gotten so much better, Like everything is just so much.

Different than it was.

The one place that I think we can compare great players to the past is their postgame celebrations, because that doesn't change.

And Jokic gave.

Us one of the most unique championship celebrations that I think we have ever seen. He celebrated begrudgingly, like he was told that this would be over when the game ended, and like this was overtime that he wasn't getting paid for.

So I'm curious what you are feeling right now and if you're looking forward to a parade coming up.

In Denver Menis Parade, MENI sparray Thursday.

No, I need to go home, Okay.

But I do think like he is such a unique personality that like just his whole thing where he like a lot of.

It, just like begrudge, like.

His body language, he's just like, yeah, I'm out there, I'm working and I'm giving you like one of the most beautiful games you've ever seen. But I don't know, like there's a lot of conversations about like Jimmy Butler is like Alpha, and like he seems to be doing it as much with his like personality as he's doing it with like what he physically does with his.

Talent on the court. And I think that's true.

Like I had that thought watching him in these playoffs, but like that is by no means a necessity, like clearly, because Jokic is just out there doing his thing without any any of the swagger the riz that as the kids call it.

Uh yeah, yeah, I think that that's what the beautiful thing about him is and about all the great players that are kind of coming to this league, is that there is no comparison that makes sense, and that they there's always a mold that they born that can't be duplicated. It can't, you know, and their home space, you know, And like Joki is just such a unique talent in that you know, he has like a dad bot you know, he's not physically you know, he doesn't like he's imposing like Shack did.

But he's so smart.

You know.

I think that one of the things I heard Isaiah Timas say on NBA t he was that he has an answer to the test. Yeah, so he's never out of the game because he he already knows the answers to the test.

So it was funny to me, like during this playoff.

Run, like they put ruie on him and at the end of Game one of the Western Finals, Lakers might have figured something out here, you know, they didn't like this is not the first time he's been guarded by a small guy, like it just they still lost the game, like he was just trying to win the game, like he was not.

It was the first time, you say, first time the commentators saw him play. Basically they're like they figured this guy out, this jockeytch guy. They're like.

Yeah, And then it was like in the finals, it's like, oh, we're gonna make him into a score instead of a passer. You think he knows how to get the ball to his teammates even when you try to make him a score, like he's figured it. He's not, like it's not his

Yeah?

And I think if you look at the way the Nuggets have been building this team going forward, I give credit to like, you know, Tim Connolly and obviousy Calvin Booth right now, but just for.

A vision that they had.

And the other thing too, that I think gets overlooked too about the Nuggets and what made their run so special is look at the chemistry of that team. Look at how much those guys you could see the genuinely like being around each other.

I remember going to one of their practices this year and like.

They were just having so much fun, Like they were playing shooting games and everybody was having a good time. And like that's not because that's not a louke, Like that's just something that they intended to get a locker room of good guys. They intend to have locker room of veterans who can police locker room. I mean, you see DeAndre Jordan, you see it, Jeff Green, you see it.

It's Smith.

I always say that for championship team, you need spirit guys. And when I say spirit guys, I mean guys who elevate the room with their energy and with their spirit. Every team that you can find a champion, you have to have those guys, especially if you have you know, kind of quirky superstars, you know, right, Yeah, And like if you look at Steph in Golden State, and why has Golden State been on this amazing run Because not only is Stephan their best player, but he's their spirit guy.

Energy in the room and brings in yeah, that and.

That, and like usually you don't get that from your star player, you know, you need it from somewhere else.

But he brings that. He brought that.

And that's why the Warriors have been, you know, great for this last decade is because Steph is not only their best player, but he's their spirit guy. Then the Nuggets have a bunch of spirit guys, it's Smith. Every he's been on fourteen teams or whatever, right, thirteen teams, it's been a bunch of teams. But everywhere he's been, everybody loves them. Everybody says he's a great guy. And like,

He wasn't happy with his role.

He was expressing his discontent and they were like, you know what, as talented as he is, he's breaking up the vibe.

We can't we.

Can't move forward as a team that's about winning and about like, you know, having this positive force kind of pushing us to a title.

With this guy over here. And they got rid of him.

Yeah, they had a guy who's one of the best players off the bench in the league at the time. You know, you thought the Bones is a really good you know six man, seven man, whatever role he.

Is, and they were like, yeah, you know what what is ride with Bruce Brown?

See what he gives us. And then you see him in the finals, and Bruce Brown has given you that spirit. He's giving you that that high energy. And so I just I just love the way the Nuggets were built. And I can say this is I said, somebody's cover to leave for a long time. Mike Malone's first year.

Uh with Michael Michel Michael, Michael.

Give me because I am Michael.

Yeah, yeah, exactually uh.

And we had my first conversation with him.

I did it behind the scenes piece with the with him and the Nuggets coaching staff. And one of the first questions I asked him, I said, do you prefer to be Michael or Mike? He asked me, do I prefer to be Michael or Mike? He said, my mother always told me that she named me Michael and not Mike. If anybody calls me Mike, let them know that I'm Michael. And he said, my mother did the same thing with me. Everybody knows that I'm Michael, So forget.

Me for saying that.

Yeah, it's fine, we.

Are Michaels and we are unified, and our mothers telling.

Us I make fun of him about it, and it's not it's not fair. It's just there's something about the name Mike Malone that wants to like my Like everybody just wants to call him Mike. I don't think it has anything to do with like disrespect or anything like that. I think it just has to do with that name. In particular. There is a Mike Malone shape. Yeah, there's a Mike Malone shaped like groove in the human brain that just people that it sticks and they're like, wait, what,

But the one thing that always stood out to me because I spent like three days with them and I sat in this is his first year there, right if you got fired by the Kings, and so I got to watch you know, film sessions, you know, pregame chats and postgame chats everything.

So I was really embedded for a couple of days.

And what stood out to me during that time even then, was that Jokic was really special. He was doing things in practice that I had just not seen like he always made the right play and for a rookie who was coming off the bench, you know, and there's this big battle with him and you know, you know Nurkic and like they're trying to figure out who the future is going to be and so but he but he just has like this ability to make the right play and it was just amazing to see it right then

I didn't know. I didn't know was gonna be this.

You got a pretty good player, but like just to see that connection between a coach and a rookie, you know, second round pick that you know, they didn't know that they got Nicola Jokic, They got the guy in the Taco bill, you know, ear.

He got drafted in the A lot of people don't know his nickname, The Joker comes from him just being really funny.

It has nothing to do with his last name. Yeah.

Yeah, Well Mike Miller was there.

They would they would do fun things like, you know, play with footballs and stuff and practice and stuff. And so at the end of practice one time, he and Mike Miller are throwing football in the hoop.

Yeah, like competitively trying to throw the football in the hoop?

Sorry, is that impressive to you? I can just do that really easily. So I just wasn't sure that's.

Super over a mountain.

But like, like Yoker just sitting there and like like he's hitting the back of the backboard and like trying to get it properly, and I.

Think he got one to go in.

It's like this, dude, It's like, like, how in the world is throwing a girl play a football?

But he had a half court or I think full court shot in the in the finals, like at the end of you know, yeah that nobody even like made a big deal about.

I was like, yeah, it was like just the least effort I've ever seen someone put into a full court shot and he front rimmed it, and everyone's like, yeah, well he's really good at basketball.

Yeah here's some format that's like kind of adopted them as like their their guy. Yeah, Loane was bonding with him, and so like it's interesting to see like where it's all gone, and like you see the photo of the brothers like picking him up and him out. Yeah, and the one thing instead ut you know, in the conversation I had with Michael Malone was I was asking about like some of his coaching influences because his dad.

Bring him alone, was a coach in the NBA, and.

So if you look at his staff, there's a lot of like former sons.

Of NBA babies is what we call him on this show.

Man. There's Ryan Saunders, Like there's a lot of guys who've been around the game there in time.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's the same way he's built yea. So he's built that staff that way. And and so I asked him, like who some of his influencers were, what they you know, and what he learned from them, and he said, he tell me about the conversation that he had with Greg Popovich and in the Sumier conversation that I have a

With other places.

I mean, obviously Duncan thought about the Magic for a second, but he stayed and he won, and he told me about what loyalty meant to him.

And what Malone told me was.

That Papovich said that if you're a coach, you have to make sure that your players know that you love them. Because if they feel that you love them and that you care for them, you can coach them as hard as you need to because they know what's coming from a good place.

They know that you're not.

You know, like if you bench them, or if you know or you take them out of a game because they're playing poorly, it's not because they have a personal vendetta against you.

It's because it's not performing fault you to And so his goal.

Was to build sincere relationship with his players, and you can see it in how they play.

That's the real wisdom that you get right from Popovich. He he told you you have to become Papa in this way, you know, for then then they have this new relationship.

All right, let's take a quick break. Well, we'll come right back. We'll keep talking about the finals. We'll talk about some amazing landmarks that we saw Jokic and Murray hit. Will be right back, and we're back.

We're back.

And I just have to say this one stat that like stopped us all in our tracks that Jabari superroducer Jabari shared with us. Jokic became the first player to lead all players in the playoffs in point three rebounds and assists in a single postseason.

That's unbelievable.

That's like unreal.

For everything that we talk about, right, like of the comparisons and things like for people who want to compare to the past, I'm like, who has this stat?

You know?

And I guess like in a way that doesn't really serve anyone, but I think again underscores just how unique of a time this is, too, like, and especially how the two of between him and Jamal Murray, you know what, they're like the first players to have record triple doubles together in a finals game.

They're also the first teammates to average twenty five to five and five during a playoff run.

Right, Murray, there are four players who have averaged twenty points in tennis in the finals. They are Magic Johnson who did in eighty seven, eighty eight, Michael Jordan, who you might remember played for the Chicago Bulls in the year nineteen ninety one when they won the title, right, Mike George probably familiar with him as Mike Lebron twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, and then Jamal Murray this year.

That's it. That's everybody.

Yeah, like just thinking about all this, right, because we've talked about on the show how much you get into like the debate culture side of talking about the NBA, and a lot of people, especially a lot of the sports journalists we have come on and like they were not were missing the point here. Like for the people who are like the stat watchers, they look at something like this and then what do they say to dismiss

Wie, I don't know what they're gonna say. I don't think they can say much after this.

Well, I guess they'll just say, like, you know, he was up and down, you know, after a thirty point game, he didn't have twenty again. Find something different, Jamal Murray.

And it never let work.

Ethic never left him, Like they had to lock him out of the gym a lot, because he just wanted to work all the time. He just wanted to get better. And like for him to be without the game for two years, like that had to drive him insane, Like the tears he shed right after they won the championship, Like I felt all of that because I know, like that guy loves basketball like that is his life, Like he is given his all to this to be where he is.

And like obviously he was a lottery pick.

The makeup of the Nuggets, you know, it was kind of these overlooked guys, you know, second round picks, you know, late late lottery picks, but he was a lottery pick. But he comes in with like that underdog mentality, Like he's got an underdog mentality because he's coming from Canada and he obviously felt he was overlooked coming out of Canada because he felt like he was better than a lot of the American players that he was that were in his draft, that were in his class, you know,

Because you never do.

I think this is a point that I've made a couple of times. You really need to, like, we need to be drafted. If you if your draft board has a UK player on it, just move them up five spots because they're they are better than you think. Let's just they're they're always going to be better than you think.

Almost always, like people are like, wait, Anthony Davis actually has an offensive game.

Wow, especially if it's a wing or a perimeter player.

Like, because I feel like they don't I don't know, the Kentucky teams just don't like have like they don't take advantage of these people who are just the most incredible shot makers in the league now, Like ye, we got Maxie, we got Murray, we got Booker, like all of them, all of them underdrafted hero.

Yeah, there's a lot.

Of talent to come away with one national title, Like and I know the young and you got to get the chemistry right, but gosh, man, like you can't have all of this talent and just coming with one, like you got to have at least two.

College basketball is so weird, man, watching how good Chet was when he got into that summer league after like what he looked like in the n c DOUAA tournament was so I was like, why how were they hiding this? Like why were they hiding this?

So I get mad whenever people send me they like the college game more than a pro game, Like what.

Are you really telling me? Like you're you're telling.

Me you don't like the best players performing at the at the highest level like.

A high school game.

Let's go to a high school game and see you know, them playing for the love of the game, because most of these guys will never play again beyond this point.

Like are you telling me this is better than the NBA? Because it's not like.

That's why I stopped playing after high school. It was when I thought the game was at the most pure. I could have played in college, probably bro, but I was like, I don't like the it's just too much about you know, the rankings and stuff like that.

It's it's not pure anymore. People don't know.

Yeah, I mean my stats, my status of high school were amazing. I mean I blame the fact that I also graduated in two thousand and three with lebron so a lot of my fatus I had them. I had the most travels in southern California.

That's pretty good.

That's pretty good. That's worth shows your mobility. Yeah, I've been benched more than any other player. But one thing, one person I do want to just put my eye on, just just a quick shout out, maybe of jealousy, is Chris Brown. At twenty two years old.

This man pronoun brown brown? Yeah, you need a pronunciation guy with that, We're just like, look.

At Kansas exactly. Uh he had three high school I think was it three straight championships in high school and then NCAA title with Kansas and now an NBA champion as a rookie. I'm like, how did you just like humble into such fantastic fortune. But like he's the fifth player to win the NCAA and NBA title in back to back seasons. That puts him in the class with Bill Russell, Henry Bibby, Magic, Billy Thompson, and now.

Chris That's it's pretty impressive.

I'm always like blown away when you see like athletes like that in any sport, where like they'll do the thing. We're like, they went with this team and then they got traded and then they won it the next year again, and you're like, good for you. What a I mean, Like Chris Brown, I'm glad that you've had such a just turbulent free rise to the top. You're like, yeah, just I can't stop winning. I'm a serial winner.

Yeah, I hope, I hope you.

I hope you appreciates it because you know, this is not a given that you're gonna win at this level.

Then the guys your name obviously want.

To love.

Russell, but I mean, it's just it's hard to win in this league.

And that that's why I appreciate like what the Nuggets are done in terms of having the patience to see you know what Michael Malone was building and to see you know, Yolkic regain his form and to have the patience would your Maul Murray to help him come back from his knee injury and just help them regain his confidence in itself and become that player.

And you know, you don't see that happen in the NBA.

You know, everybody wants it right now and they're not willing to see guys enter their prime together and see what happens.

It's just like, well, he's not really looking the way we thought, so we got to move on from him and then or we don't want to pay him, or but.

This is another another homegrown title, right like the you know it was them, then Golden State, then Milwaukee all you know that they're not you know Milwaukee, it's not like they drafted all their Big three, but like it's their their best player was drafted by them and they built out in around them.

Yeah.

I mean, that's the one thing that stands out to me is that three of the last five finals MVPs were drafted outside of the lot of room.

Yeah, nobody knows anything.

That's everybody's everybody's tanking. Everybody is trying to intentionally lose. For guys, they think you're going to be stars, and then the thing can stand up to me and I hope, I hope Victor Woman Yama can break it. You know, do you guys know how many number one picks have won a championship for the original organization since nineteen ninety No, take a guess how many number one picks have won a championship for the original organization?

Well, you got Tim Duncan. That's step is that is that it?

Well there's Kyrie.

Kyrie, that's right.

But he only won because the previous number one.

Pick came back, That's right.

So Lebron came back, you know, after winning titles in Miami to win in Cleveland.

So here Lebron three in Periator three.

So Lebron, he didn't stay there the whole way through and win and then just stay he won and then came back and won. Yeah, like so really it's it's two or three however you want to do the numbers, but it just it just shows that how how.

How much luck plays a role in this, you know, right?

And and you know I I have that conversation with Tim Connolly about you know, jolkics and just you know, him becoming this superstar player. And he would tell me all the time just how lucky they were, Like they were lucky for him to become this guy, right because you know, they knew he had the ability oosity because they drafted him. They had faith in him, but it wasn't like he was their top choice. Then they drafted three guys before they took him.

Yeah, so he and he's the guy that now is people saying it's the best player in basketball.

And it's the same thing with Giannis Janis went fifteen, Yeah, and you know he's the best player in basketball.

And he had the hype at the time Jannis that like this guy could be something special, but he's like a huge project. It's going to take a lot of time right where it was just like they realized he was one of the best players in the league when he like five games into him being one of the best players in the league, they were like, oh, wait, wait a second, this guy's yeah.

I mean, yeah, it is about luck. But you know who's gonna need luck. In our next segment, oh of the Washington Post, because when we come back, it's time for the rapid fire round of questioning the most unique segment in podcasting. We'll be back with that right after this. And we're back Michael Lee. Get ready because you have stumbled into the hot seat. It's time for the rapid fire round of questioning. Now, this segment is the fastest

Well, see this is why I was bad at baseball, that I have bad reflexes.

Well let's try.

Let's try.

And I'm like, should I hit this right too? Okay?

Yeah, Like you're you're swinging on it as the as the catcher is throwing it back to the picture. You can't swing on that, oh man. All right, So here we go. We're getting into it rapid fire round and questioning.

Brian start the clock. Brian's crying just for the listener. That's fine, that's fine, that's fine.

It's an intense segment, you know, but Brian knows I love him like a son and I am his papa.

That's why I hard on him.

I learned that from a great man.

Jack.

You want to go first, I go first.

Sure, I'll go first.

How about Okay?

See how about that, Michael Lee?

Is there a single NBA player you would take right now over the chance of taking WEMBM.

You are the Spurs.

You've gotten the call from everybody in the league saying why ah.

I like that.

I like that he's locked in. He's locked in.

I'm excited about the possibilities, and I'd rather take a chance on him than.

That somebody established. Okay, it doesn't work out, it's a dance that that I that I failed that, But if it does.

Then yeah, yeah to the top.

Yeah.

You also couldn't do it because, like everybody, your fan base would be so mad at you.

It's like it's like the Sixers trading Brad Doherty when they had Charles Barkley, Like they wonder why he's in Phoenix because you you you should have taken the best center and paired them with Barkley.

And try to see like the.

Cleven Tavaliers, like they weren't the greatest team, but they were pretty good.

You know, Jordan's hitting those shots. You know they were the underdog in those series. So yeah, but if.

You have if you have Brad Dougherty and Charles Barkley, it's you. Look, you probably got a couple of rings, probably standing away with Jordan or.

Oh yeah, Michael, Now I got to ask you a question because we got to keep this moving. But this is one important because you've got your eye on the league. Now we're going to be talking about teams you want to cover in the off season. You know, who's who's making some moves, who's interesting? Who do we illuminate spurs Ovi? Now, what's the team that you're also expecting big things from someone we should also keep our eye on the postseason. Don't sleep on them.

Portland do it? Trade Dame, do it?

Portland, do it trade, Dame, do it now.

Don't even waste anybody's song. Like he's given you twelve years or eleven years. He's had enough time sitting on that throne. And uh, you have a Western Conference final strip for it, and it's great.

You shake his hand.

You admire him, call him the greatest plazer ever, but give him a chance to win, and give you a chance to move forward tos a franchise trying to win with him. You're not going to compete with the JAP teams in the West, no matter what. You try to trade the number three pick for. Trade him, get some pieces, go forward draft Scoop, and then try to try to

Uh.

I say, do it, and and don't worry about what you're get in return, because that doesn't matter. You just gotta you gotta go in a different direction.

You traded.

Is anyone is anyone talking about Phoenix as a potential destination. Like they get Chris Paul to come in and be the guy who is the tutor, the veteran tutor for scoop.

You said Chris Paul as a tutor, don't. I don't see that happening.

Like Chris Paul is still a competitive guy who wants to win championships. He ain't the big brother trying to teach, you know, guys, you know, he's he's trying to win. And and I don't I don't see him playing that role. He's somebody that needs to go somewhere where he can win too. And I don't know what Phoenix is gonna do. Man, It's just they just got he got a messy roster. Like the only thing I think they could do is what they did, and that's hired you know Vogel as

Hibbert who became an all star plan for Frank Vogel.

Right, and we haven't seen him since, right, but he was, he was, he was considered, you know, an elite big man for a long time planning for Frank Vogel and what were eighties best years with the Lakers?

Who was the coach?

Yeah, I mean I'm avo give a.

Chance to see what he can do with him if he, you know, gets on Booker's nerves or these nerves because he's not playing.

Hard and ship them.

Like, I think that you have a guy who can get you eighteen and twelve and maybe he can give you more, but he's he's also got to be somebody who has the support of the coach.

Yeah, Michael, what is your favorite NBA city to visit and what's your must have meal in that town?

It changes so much, you know, I had like a top five, but I'll just say.

Give us one we wouldn't expect underrated good.

I mean, New York is obviously the one I used.

Yeah yeah, New York.

Yeah, yeah, I actually get excited about Boston.

Favorite meal in Boston go to Legal Seafood and get a lobster.

Okay, I like that.

I like that, But you know, you know, underrated city, very underrated city restaurants in total cool like late night kind of like jazzy bars kind stuff. San Antonio Man, Yeah, san Antonio has a lot going on. Go to a great steakhouse or go to a great barbecue restaurant.

Michael Lee, I got to ask you a serious question now, okay, because we got to keep this. You know, we're sorry, we're putting it all on the line right now. We're putting it all on the line, Michael. But this is this next question is a very hot button issue. Jalen roses hair.

Well, oh that's a question for a statement. It's a work of art.

Okay, just take it where you want to go. It's like I'm throwing it up. I'm just seeing what you do with it.

Okay.

Like this barber needs to go into like he needs to teach others.

I want him to work with me. I want him to give me that line.

And get me all of that stuff that Jalen got going on because Jaalen, I remember, you know, had the shaved head.

Yeah.

Now I'm looking at him and he's got like he's got the hair like it's it's it's barber, barber is excellent, like that.

There's nobody with a better hairline, I mean, or line up than him like he's Yeah, it's a work of art.

It's one of the best, truly, all right.

And finally the question that we've all been waiting for, Michael Lee, Jack or Miles.

Oh between you two? Mm hm oh yeah both y'all both got love? Man, I ain't thinking.

Who has more? Who has more love? Yeah, if you had.

To, if you got the measuring tape game.

It's the trolley experiment he taking.

Man. I can't. I can't do that.

Man, all right.

I just met you guys, and I enjoyed the conversation. I don't want to kissed off at the end.

We love that. We There you have it.

Michael Lee of the Washington Post is a humanist and someone with a kind heart who will not choose between all of his creatures. Michael Lee, thank you so much for joining us on. Miles and Jack got mad boost ties. Where can people find you? Follow you, support you, read you do all that kind of stuff.

Well, you obviously can find me at the Washington Post. You're gonna find me on Twitter at mister Michael Lee. And uh and yeah, you know I don't cover to the NBA full time anymore. I'm a sports inger, prize writer, you know, and I deal with issues of race, sport, and society, so I do a lot of different things with every now and then they called me back in to do some NBA stuff because I still have love for the game and I feel like I still have a little expertise in it. But yeah, it's it's tough.

Much as I used to.

But I still feel like I know the game good enough to make comments on Twitter that don't sound too stupid.

Absolutely, well, you just boned up on your NBA bona fides by talking to two of the great minds in NBA media, Miles and Jack.

You know.

You guys, maybe you can rub me.

Yes right, Well, make sure you give us a follow on Twitter. You can find me at Miles of Gray.

Where do they.

Find me at Jack Underscore O'Brien, Yeah, and a hit.

Up hashtag Matt Boosties for show links and updates because we'll be posting stuff there, asking questions and shout out to this week's listener. Please rate and review the podcast Gross negligent left this five star review that said, I've been a huge Miles and Jack fans in season two of The Daily Zeitgeist. Wow having politics content for mental health reasons. I'm so happy to get to experience their

When Jabari did write that and he only gave us two stars, yeah, that's how you know.

It doesn't match though, But that is going to do it for us. This week on Miles and Jack Got Mad Boosties, Lee's check back in with us next week as we take our journey into the in between times, the silly season, as it were, the upcoming Everything's trade machine that we.

Don't know how to work.

Yeah, you'll have to find out. Listen to that and many other wild speculations only on Miles and Jack Got Mad Boosts. All right, we'll see you next time.

Bye bye,