Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season two eighty one, Episode two of The Daily Site Geist. This is still a production the iHeartRadio. It's still a podcast where we still take a deep dive into America's shared consciousness. It's Tuesday, March twenty eight, twenty twenty three. I feel like Jack wasn't really telling you what national day is because sometimes it doesn't matter. But I'll just tell you what it is.
It's National Black forest Cake Day, National Weed Appreciation Day, not cannabis, but just the weeds that grow in your yards. American Diabetes Association Alert Day, and National Triglycerides Day Wow. And something on a Stick Day for those of you that indulge with things on sticks like marshmallows or carrots or whatever, what have you. My name is Miles Gray aka the Heartbroup Heartbroken Brewing as I watched UCLA crash
out of Gonzaga on Thursday. But I am back, and I am still Hideo NoHo, and I am thrilled to be joined by my college today. A hilarious comedian, someone who's doing good whenever they possibly can, and a wonderful host. Uh oh my god, forgive me. What's the stand up show again. I've been on leave too long. I'll introduce you. First. It's plain thank you. First of all, that just reminds me that my tred list rides are high. And second, all carrots on a stick, bro, have more fun. What
are you doing is a stick? Oh wow? So you would okay, stick, if you're going to improve upon the form, you would put something upon the carrot, upon the carrot. That's what I'm saying. Okay, but engineer mine, you know what I mean? Yes? Yes, what was a stand up show again? So I have a city council. It's a podcast. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, but I've been real lazy about it. So nobody get mad at me. I get it, I get it, I get it. Play we have we
got one of those guests that come on. We're like, oh, we got someone smart, we got someone that's an expert, someone who I can ask questions to, like white technology, making me sad, because that's exactly what we're going to be doing today. We have to introduce our guests. She is the Technology, Privacy and Policy Professor of Law Code, director of the Institute for Privacy Protection, and co director
of the Gibbons Institute of Law. Science and Technology at Seton Hall University and the author of the book Unwired Gaining Control over Addictive Technologies. Please welcome, Guya Burnsday guy, welcome, Thank you, thank you for having me. Oh, thank you for blessing us on this second rate podcast with your first rate acumen. But yes, we really appreciate you stopping by. I like that she comes with her own AKA. She had so many titles, I know, yeah, yeah, yeah, and
like those are legit over here. I'm saying, like I'm the lord of lancershim Boulevard. That's not a real thing, but for the people in North Hollywood, California, they know it is. But guya, welcome to the show. Where are you coming to us from today? From New York City all the way? Okay, okay um, And yeah, we're gonna talk a little bit about your book and some other technology things as we get into it. But how has it been, you know, doing doing a few interviews, getting
out there talking with interesting people? Are we the most interesting people you've spoken with so far? Without really being ten minutes into a conversation, can we for sure? You're the funniest nobody? Okay, y, that's all I ever wanted. Well, you're the funniest for sure. Okay, well, gaya, we are going to get to know you a little bit better. But first we're gonna tell people some of the things we're gonna talk about. First, the Pope's puffy jacket, No,
he is not. His style is not that lit. Although I guess many people would love if the pont Effects was doing a pontifflex upon us mortals on planet Earth. But we'll talk about that AI generated image. I just remember some people the evolution of people being like I can't believe it to them like, oh, yeah, I knew that was AI the whole time. Yeah, I knew. I knew the slippery slope that we're all, are you finding
ourselves on in the last couple of weeks. With that, we'll also talk about Apple, because it seems like they're also ignoring the total lack of enthusiasm for virtual reality headsets with their upcoming you know, mixed reality headset that I can't believe they're still insisting is something we might want. But we'll talk a little bit about that and the you know, lack of confidence that some of the people working on it are experiencing. And then gotta talk to
Gaya about Look, I'm a new parent. I'm very aware of you know, just how many other parents too or talk about screen time. I was raised by my mother like saying, don't watch the TV. It's going to rot your brain. And how all of these things have evolved. So I'm really interested in talking to you about sort of the evolution of our addictive technologies and kind of we're you know, hurtling towards this very isolated way of living, because that's something we talk about a lot from the show.
But first, Guya, we gotta ask you, Professor Guya Birdstein Party, what is something from your search history that might reveal something about who you are, what you're into right now? So you know, I like this question because I remember going to a conference and seeing a slide and having the Google search, but instead it said I confess. So basically, whatever is in our search is like what's going for
our brains, and there's nothing special in my chest. Basically it shows how my brain just jumps from one thing to another. So I would be researching a privacy class, so I would look for a movie about drones. Then I remember, I know this person. I wrote an article so I will switch to googling their name, and then a minute later, I'll remember that I have to feed my kids, and there's this fish in the fridge and of a recipe, so I look for the recipe, and then I recall that I never got grocery, so I
switched to googling the fresh Direct. So and all of this happens in ten minutes. So really this you can see how my brain operates from this? Sure? Sure? And do you It is funny when you can kind of look at your own stream of consciousness via Google searches and you're like, wow, I had I had an interesting two hours right there from like looking at wait, so what's this? What kind of drone stuff were you looking up? Well? I was looking up for I teach about privacy and drones.
And actually the first time I showed my student drones it was when COVID nineteen broke in China, and I just was the only video I found online. So they started to show it to them, never realizing that a month later this is going to be here, and this was just showing them how drones can basically fly over an empty city and how it looks and how it
takes pictures and it was shocking to know what happened next. Yeah, what kind of privacy laws are there with drones, because I feel like it's I get that, like you're not supposed to do like fly drones in certain areas, but like in LA, I see so many people like in residential areas, Like I'll hear the were of like a drone and it's like what I saw on like the murder Trial documentary had like drones that were flying and watching as people remove funds from a place, like it
was like legit evidence and it was just a dude with a drone. Yeah, there's not enough. The main thing has to do is registered with the FAA, but it's not Basically you can do a lot with the drone right now. Yeah, the kid with a drone right exactly. And I see like, but then I see videos or people are like I took a drone down that was above my home, And part of me is like, I guess that's fair if you're using a bolow to take
a drone down. But yeah, it's good to know. Starting early on the Robot Wars, you know, yeah, right, I mean alrighty, it's funny when you see like people help sometimes help the delivery robots get across the street, and then you see like the like ludite type people who are like, man, this robot like kick it over, and you're just like, just decide on one miles. You should
know that ludites were a name for revolutionary workers. Come on, yes, I know, but look and just like we should be smashing chat GPT, we should probably smashing them printing presses. I get that. Man, that's a whole other boxel worms too.
In the last couple of days of talking like really earnestly with people about AI and some people really being on the side of like it's a great tool that could make things so much easier, and as somebody who has been laid off before or look how budget cuts their man, I'm like, that looks like a way to condense like fifteen jobs into two. But are we then grappling with the complexity of that after I'm like torn because I did work in AI in my PhD that
I quit. But I think like everything gets like automated, and job security just like constantly changes as technology evolves. So I think that responsibility like definitely like the people making the tech need to be talking to policymakers more to prepare like the masses for like the skill changes that like I mean, think about computer scientists now versus fifteen years ago, like the like the job market that's
completely changed, you know. And I think AI is scary because of what we're going to talk about next, But there are good uses for it. It's just like people are I'm like, I'm not going to be impressed with AI until someone makes like a single printer that works reliably, you know what I mean. Like, I don't care about all of these advances. I just want a printer to work, you know. I want a PowerPoint to not defeat a professor. Okay, guy,
what are you? How are you? Like? What's how it is sort of AI sort of intersect with your work right now? Well, I think I feel like the writing has been on the wall for a while. People are so shocked that chat GPT came in, and what are they going to do with students and how are they
going to learn anything? But but seriously, we've just been incorporated technology into the classroom, like without even thinking so, and suddenly this thing is there and it's the first time we are stopping to think and realizing maybe maybe not all technology is good. Maybe a kid would not learn if they their essays written by chat YPT. So even though I'm concern about what's going to happen, I'm sort of happy there's some kind of wake up coal here, right. Yeah.
I talked to some professors about this. I talked to a professor from Germany and he was saying that they do use like AI to write essays, but the ways to get around that is they have like rival technology to detect when AI is being used to write the essay. So that's what's happening in Europe right now. And I was like, how how much is this going to go
back and forth? This is like a kid battling their parent with parental controls, you know what I mean, like try to lock them out with the password, right, and that never goes anywhere because there's always a new technology, and it's just yeah, but the fact we have we're faced by this and it's out there. There was no warning. It just came the CHAGYBT and I was supposed to deal with the consequences and there's no time to think
even yeah out here. Yeah, And because i They're like I have friends too, who are like in grant writing too, they're not born writers, you know, they're just like motivated people in the field that they do in grant writing is difficult, and they're like, it's taken a lot of work off of my plate. I'm not a born writer or like I have these literary skill to be writing like compelling things. It's much easier to use that. And I'm like, I completely understand where these tools like how
they're used. And then I have friends who work in advertising who are like, yeah, company clients are now coming to us with like half baked decks that AI generated, and it's like sort of diminishing the kinds of work that we're able to do even as advertising agencies along with them. And I'm like, you see, you see where the sort of the squeezing and expansion is beginning to happen. But yeah, it's this is why robots need to take over all of the labor. And then we just get
to frolic and fields all day. Thank you know what I mean, Let us let us frolic let us easier times. Oh, we just consume and sit on our screens and nothing else because wale, Okay, Kyle, what is something that you think is overrated. What I think is overrated. I think it's um basically nexting progress. So I'll give you two examples what I mean by that. So I am supposed to meet a friend in a restaurant and she arrives five minutes early, so she texts me'm I just got here,
And then she texts me two minutes later. I'm sitting at the corner on the table, and then you know, I come in and instead of looking for her, I text her I'm here. And why all these extra texting? It's not really necessary? Or I live in New York City. We order food all the time. We order delivery, so you know, you get confirmation when you order food. I
guess that's good. You know your order got in. But then you get another text your food is being prepared, and then you get another one your delivery is on the way. And then usually like two minutes after we're delivered, you get a text saying congratulations your food is aliver Right, right?
Do we really need all of this? That makes me think, you know, like the constant progress alerts has to be something that I know, like in your book, you touch on like the idea that a lot of technology stuff is informed by like like neuropsychologists too, and just the idea of like what's going to get someone like this is actually a future that people want even though we're like do we But I also get it in the age of such instant gratification that it's probably for the
kinds of people who are like, well, what's going on with my order? Like where is it? And then you can at least have Oh okay, they've they're preparing it. Oh okay, they have another stop along the way. Right. We spent a little top because every time I get one of these texts, I just just say, Okay, the food is coming, my kids will get dinner. I start looking at my emails and I start taking a Facebook and I've spent ten minutes just because I got this
extra text. Wow. Also, it takes the responsibility off of the person to be like patient, you know what I mean like that, and that makes like more face to face conversations and demands like much more terrifying, because people expect efficiency at their demand and at their service, you know, right right. I was just I just was thinking of recently I got like a like a like a like
a delivery thing and it was like telling me. They're like, oh, yeah, this package will arrive in like five days from now, four days from now. I'm like, yeah, I knew that when you gave me the like, you know, expected delivery date. And to that point, I'm like, maybe this is for a very specific kind of psychology that it's catering to, because it certainly was not me. Guya, what's something you think is underrated? Well, two things which I related, I
think alarm clocks and wrist watches. So if I had an alarm clock, instead of using the alarm on my phone, instead of getting up in the morning in bed and picking up my phone and force checking my email, three email accounts, my social networks and what's up whatever text, I could maybe just you know, woke wake up in a more normal way. But if I don't, I don't have separate alarm. I'm dreaming about that to get to one. And another thing is ast wristwatch. I don't want to
have one either. I actually lost it three months ago and get a chance to buy a new a new one. But so every time I want to know the time again, I pick up my phone and I just described what happens. So I think this are things that if they came
back into fashion, would be great. I know. That's what Like the Apple watch was like so insidious, Like I got it in the beginning of the pandemic, like as like a heart rate monitor too, because I was like running more and I was like, oh, this is great and I can I don't have to bring an iPod. I can like listen with my like with my wrist
watch without it's like less bulk. But to your point, now, when I look at my wrist, it's for so much more than the time, and it's yeah, the the amounts of information on offer from such a small devices, it can definitely take your attention. And I was a kid. I used to wear a wristwatch and like they're great, and I was the only one who did so I was like a little baby businessman and I always needed
it before I went to school. Hall I was like, I'm gonna be late, mother, Let's get there right right, That's all I have to offer to You're like, you're like, well, no, we have plenty of time, Like well is your watch said to the atomic clock like mine, because we are behind,
we have to go. That was but it's funny. I also like wore a wrist watch too, Like was one of those like nerdy kids just like to have like a watch, Like yeah, it's like or be like a um actually type kid were like, oh, we should actually go into recess because it's already like one thirty. They didn't. Are you a roller backpack kid? No, rolliebags came out my junior year of high school. That's like when we
hit peak rolliebag. I'm a I'm an elder. So the earliest people that I remember there was this one girl I would school, a Libby. She I remember she heard her back like like you know, playing in the yard or whatever, and the doctor told her she couldn't wear a backpack. So she had like a travel suitcase that she would bring around. So funny to us, you were like that it was the o g rolliebag was just
bringing a travel suitcase around. I have thought about doing that at the girl through store before I got a car. I was like this closed to bringing just a suitcase grostery store. I love the efficiency. I love the efficiency. So guy, await, So I love that You're like, you'd be great to having a long clock. Me myself don't have one, but I think it would be fantastic. What's I love, like the sort of paradoxical relationship we all have with these kinds of things, or like that's what
I need. Don't have one yet, but I feel it's something I could that could definitely help me. Yeah, Miss Gaya, Mother Earth, she wakes up with the sun. Okay, come down, I wait with the sun, but not because I want to, because I had Okay, cool, Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back to talk about some some really cool, uh Catholic fashion trends coming out of Rome right after this. Over the weekend, Oh, we're back. Sorry,
I'm rusty, folks. I've been on paternal leave parental leave, and I've this is my first time speaking with people over the age of like seven weeks old. So this is helping me a lot as I slowly get back into this. We're back, but I want to get into
our first story. So over the weekend, there was a huge splash on social media when an image of the Pope warring puffy white jacket came out and it was the talk of many text threads and conversations between people I know who are Catholic and they're Catholic parents who are like, see, he's pretty cool, check him out. But turns out it was an AI generated image, which left many people sort of like ingenuine shock, and this like
the sort of journey of this image was. It was first posted to the mid Journey AI subreddit and from there, you know, I think if anyone knew where it was, you go, oh, this is posted in the place where people are posting AI generated images. But there there is a Reddit to Twitter pipeline that most people aren't maybe aren't aware of, or a lot of the context just gets ripped and then put on Twitter immediately, sometimes with no context or whatever. And then many people were like,
what is a go weighing on here? The pope looks fantastic or is he really wearing all that? But I think with anything, if you weren't looking on Twitter and you kind of looked at a bigger image, you could kind of see that there were some inconsistencies about just you know, physics or like light or what kind of crucifix even the pope would wear. But I was curious if you all saw this picture and what your own evolution of thoughts was with this. I saw it, and
I didn't think any thoughts. I just retweeted my friend's tweet that said dope Francis because I thought that was cool, and I also want to add some that was at Beth Borden, and then I also want to add some important context. She responded to her tweet with a comment from Reddit that was like, Mussalms are sweaty knee, sweet crosses heavy, last supper is ready. It's Lord Spaghetti by Lebron James Johnson. So I didn't think any thoughts. I
guess I don't have enough Catholic friends. I was just like, that's a funny joke, and I retweeted it because like what he's wearing has no effect on any policies or any real thing. So I was like, this is dumb. But then later I was like, oh, yeah, I do need to look at images more closely to know if they're AI, but eventually it's going to get to a
point where we won't know. Yeah, I mean this this kind of goes along with just like in the last week there was like Helon Musk holding hands with AOC or Trump getting arrested, and like there's one of Macron. Also there's a lot of Trump makeout yeah yeah, and like and with Trump, we know like that man is not dynamic enough to ever cause emotion blur in in a still image. So I was like this, Sai, my man is not My mind is not that spry, Okay.
But again with like a lot of people were saying that, like some there was maybe a reason why some people were quick to at first quite possibly believe that this was real because apparently there's a group of people that think that he, like the Pope, is like very stylish, and that there were rumors going around that he was like wearing designer loafers that the Vatican had to debunk
because people are like, well, it's Rome. It's like fashion is everywhere, and like why wouldn't he And then while others were just like, I think it just goes part in parcel with like people's celebrity worship or the idea that just like oh yeah, yeah, that's I'd believe that I buy that, or because how oversaturated even images of celebrities look, that these Ai sort of imitations are just sort of hitting all taking all these boxes visually that
are sort of our guards come down. Guya. What are your thoughts on on dope, Francis, But that's in the same I missed a bit, so sometimes I'm not inconsistent. I actually follow what I preached, so I'd tried not dispense too much time on Twitter, so I didn't see it. But I agree with if you said basically, I mean this is going to be perfect. I mean, right now people can tell us AI, but it's just a matter
of time. And then the question is how do you decide what's reality and what's real and what's not, which has been an issue for a lot for quite a while with words. But once you get into pictures, when you lose When when a vision tells gets perfect, like chatty pet will get perfect, that's when we really really have a problem. Right. This is the image Guy of just of him in this like puffy jacket. Oh wow, so this because it was so fashionable, everyone was like, oh,
we love this, we love this. And again like you're saying, Guy, like it's imperfect right now, And many people pointed out these imperfections like like hands, we've seen that, like all these AI have real trouble rendering like hands and legs, like the Trump arresting like he had like he was like a quadruped like in that image, and then a lot of like other religious people were like, that is not the kind of crucifix the pope would wear if they look at that, or even like the way the
glasses frames were blending into the shadow of it were like very you know, keen eyed people thought. But for most people who are just looking at an image like this on Twitter or like on a passive scroll, like to your point, when they really dial things in, it's truly gonna like the amount of like reconciliation that has to happen in your brain to be like what am I looking at is definitely going to increase. Yeah, And I guess when you think about it, like what what
is the damage? I know there's some laws to regulate you know, photography fakes in some states, not many of them, but but they are all kinds of other harms that can be caused by just you know, showing somebody in a place they would never were, or where they're not supposed to be with somebody they're not supposed to be with them. I'm not sure it might again take years until something is done about that, right. I wanted to ask your thoughts because you are in law and so
accolated within it. How what about like the ramifications for like court based evidence, Like already the justice system is so flawed. How are we gonna you know, voicemail, voice notes, calls, images, all of these are used as evidence. How do we know what's going to be real and what's going to be presented to a jury? Right? So, but with every kind of evidence, there's always an analysis, you know. For example, when we started getting DNA evidence, it took a while
until it was accepted. The problem here is photographs are already accepted as evidence exactly, So you have to decide how you treated you sort of do you start treating
it as less reliable? And that's confusing, right yeah, But that's only so that's suddenly it's like, I'm sorry, this video evidence is just not reliable because we're our ability to fake everything and it could absolutely be something that would you know, absolve someone of guilt or you know, convict Someone's this this voicemail of Joe Biden saying the N word on a call. No, like all the deep
pig voices of the presidents. They had him like singing like rap lyrics since and it sounds like him, you know, like all of the the AI voice. They have like a lot of like gamer videos of Trump and Biden and Obama playing video games together and using their voices, you know what I mean, Like yeah, to talk shit to each other during a gameplay content I never wanted. But I didn't hear one of a deep faked Trump.
And the one thing I was like, they can't get his cadence right, Like the tone of voice was right, but his way, his manner of speaking of like good luck for the person who has to like program the nuances of that speech to like into an algorithm, because that's yeah. The Biden one was like, was there were tiktoks of boomers being scared by their like millennial and gen Z kids like hearing Biden like say the N word and say all this like crazy stuff, and they
were like, oh my goodness. Like the use of the propaganda for election campaigns, like by the time for this image for example, like everybody saw it and then no one saw the follow up story. You know that happens all the time when even you know, human generated inaccurate headlines are produced and then people don't see the corrections,
like the damage just already done. So what do we do then, yeah, slippery slope, but I mean it sounds like yeah, like as of now you can kind of you can kind of tell because it looks like a trippy oil painting. Still, if you look real close, the skin's always shinier than it has to be. But yeah, that's how I look in pictures. It's just like a and we know I'll go with them teach themselves so they will learn eventually how it look perfectly. It's really a matter of time and awful lot of time until
it will be perfect, right. It's just yeah, it really is a very interesting time because things are just feel like they're just accelerating now to speed that like the nineties, you're like, yeah, man, you heard a CD rom And then it's like you don't need the caddy anymore. You can insert the CD disc straight in. That was like
three years of time. And now we're going from like, hey, you can swap faces on Snapchat to like you hear Joe Biden say the N word on this phone call and you're like, what, how it's kind of interesting how we like will be reverting to like non technical stuff because talking to that professor about the AI writing the essays.
The only fool proof way of making sure people don't cheat is like, because you can try to get more localized and specific with the topics, but eventually it's going to get to a point where you have to just like watch them write the essay in front of you on paper, you know what I mean. And that's like reverting back to when we didn't have it, Like we use the technology so much it's irresponsible. Now we don't get to use it anymore, you know, I think it
would be some advantages. You know, I've been sitting in classrooms teaching students on Wi Fi for a while, and I never understood why I have to compete against the Internet. Why, Well, I'm talking everybody can be shopping on Instagram. And actually if you cut down to Wi Fi, which is how people have to do exams, so they won't be able to cheat and they'll have secure systems and the computers, that might be place we should have gone earlier. Right, Yeah,
it is true. I mean, like I remember when I got to college, like this was this is like the beginning of laptops being just you know, ubiquitous, like they were everywhere, and I remember like the first time I popped my laptop open. In my Spanish and Iberian history class, I was looking at nonsense and I hadn't was absolutely just missed the entire lesson because I was so amazed. I was like, yeah, I can do I can multitask
quote unquote, But really I was absolutely just distracting myself. Yeah, and you doing versus school here in New York City. I mean, kids were saying, how I supposed to study, but he's playing games on the computers. I'm just watching the kid next to me on the game. Right. Well, this next story I think is really interesting because we're talking about just sort of the speed at which we're
moving towards like not needing human interaction really anymore. You know, Virtual reality or VR as I remember it in the nineties was a real hook for people that were really interested in technology, you know, like it was in film and TV and video games, and like sort of gave us this idea of like a world where all you had to put on was a goofy looking hell helmet and now you are experiencing a new reality. And it was like I get that. From that time, We're like, Wow,
the ability of computers is fantastic. This could really be something anyway, fast forward to now where no one is interested in wearing a helmet to use Google Docs or living on a beach digitally or whatever. Yet a lot of the big tech companies are insisting that it's the
wave of the future. Specifically, you know, Mark Zuckerberg completely took a big swing with the metaverse and ended up being not what he thought it was going to be because again, this was like a weird way from the way he saw its, like, this is a new way for people to work and toil. And I think most people who are on that side of the equation, we're like, no, don't don't want that at all. Actually, I'm fine with
the way we're doing it. I'm actually less distracted without having to put on a VR headset and be in some like emoji or like avatar based meeting or something like that. And now Apple is just they're going full steam ahead with their mixed reality heads and people that have worked on the product are giving some insight now to how the internal design team thinks it's going to be,
and it's not great. Quote. Some company insiders have been wondering if the upcoming headset is a solution in search of a problem sources still the media outlet that quote. Unlike the iPod, which put digital songs in people's pockets, and the iPhone, which combined the abilities of a music player and a phone, the headset hasn't been driven by
the same clarity. And I can totally see that. I mean, not only that, it sounds like they are numerous like deserters of the project who are working on it, like at Apple, because they just felt that the end product wasn't going to live up to like what they think it's going to be, while like other people have been fired because you know, they failed to make certain features work.
It's just when you look at it right now, we're in a landscape where this is not necessarily a booming market, like Meta has had to slash the price of their top tier fifteen hundred dollar headset by a third to try and entice people. This Apple headset, you know how much, is rumored to be three thousand dollars. They are not going to Google glasses. I am sorry that is not happening.
I get that the Apple fans out there, they might be like, oh yeah, I got it yesterday, But again, this does feel like this weird thing where I'm not really sure what this how this is making anything easier, or what the novelty is going to be. And it just feels like, again, like with all of our technology, if we're like if in this world where maybe people were using VR more, I'd imagine we're just going to increasingly like more one dimensional forms of communication without much
real human contact. You know, it's hard to say, it's how to say if what's happening, like what happened with videos, Like for decades people were saying they're going to have video conferencing and everything will be on video, and nothing happened until quite recently, really until the pandemic, I would say, nobody was really doing it. And I wonder if this is just some kind of delay and eventually they will find a way to do it. I mean, I was
worried about that. I was thinking, I mean, not only in our screens all the time, if we're completely in a different reality that we know, interaction between us whatsoever. But I guess I'm relieved that this is delayed, but I'm not sure who delayed forever? Right? So do you think it all way? Right? If like the very cynical version is like We're on this very increasingly intense path where technology is going to make things easier or whatever
or communication streamlined, which really means less human interaction. And because of maybe that feeling of isolation, these headsets are going to offer us some feeling of like humanity again. Is that like maybe where it's gonna like the hook point we'll return for it. They're like, hey, remember we
used to see people put this headset on. I feel like this is I mean, that's why it was invented, is because of like rich people's playgrounds, right, Like they are isolated and they feel weird, and so they're like, how are we going to perform our man hunts on islands during the next pandemic? You know what I mean, Let's go VR with it. But if you've ever used a VR heads like I've played, I've done like gains like at arcades and stuff with and it like it
literally makes me throw up. Like some of them have been such unpleasant experiences, like fake roller coasters and stuff that I got like really sick after in a way that I never had gotten on like real roller coasters, you know what I mean. I'm like, I'm like some of it just feels I feel like some of it could be used in Guantanamo, is what I'm saying, Like, I feel like that's where this is gonna be weaponized eventually for true yeah, for true psychological terror ops for yeah.
But guy, like, so, how do you sort of see it evolveing? Because, like I think, from our perspective right now, is we see it coming from like like an employer class that goes like, this is the future of work.
You know. That's how Meta was sort of sort of centering the metaverse in the beginning, was like this is going to replace how you meet and how teams interact and things like that, And most workers were like, no, that's that sounds like added It's sort of like added intensity or a level of connection that isn't necessary given that we're able to work together online. But how do you sort of see this evolution happening where they like
we're like, yeah, I guess what. Everybody's got one of these now, So you know, I thought this was heading this way. I was actually if you'd ask me, you know, six months ago, a year ago, I was sure this together with smart cities were connected everywhere and I phone
is used for everything, is where we're headed. So I am surprised, and I'm always wondering if what happened here is that people were somehow struck by the pandemic because they sort of felt you know, there were lockdowns, they were at home, they felt what it means to be on the screen all the time not seeing people. They felt how their bodies felt, they felt how their minds felt. And maybe they're realizing more than before because when I was speaking before the pandemic to people, it was mostly
parents who are a warried and something is shifted. So I'm wondering if that's I'm wondering if it's technological issues or it's partly how people feel about it. And I really really hope it's the latter. Hm. I feel like, at the end of the day, we are people and we need human connection and our brains will explode if we don't have that. You know, we have access to all of these technologies. But at the same time, people really wanted to just go to restaurants during the pandemic
and eat together. So yeah, and hear like human laughter, and I remember so much how I longed to like eat with a group of like, you know, like eat off someone's plate, like let me try that, you know, yeah, to like get a hug from someone, you know, Oh man, that early day and burst into tears. I was doing like turnaway hugs from like my grandfather and stuff like wearing all these ppe It was like, all right, you
gotta go, man, you're almost ninety, Yeah, mess around. But again it's true, like and we'll get into this um after the break we talk a little bit about your book, guy, because I do feel like we are in this experience as people where the technology is making our lives easier. And for the record, everyone like we're all no one
hears like hates technology. But the thing that we're up against now is like we're starting to see how it's eroding at these like little things and increasing this feeling of alienation, and yet we still are using it, like we just can't quit it. And your book sort of gets to the crux of that feeling. We'll talk about that right after the break. We'll be right back. So, you know, talking about your book Guya Unwired, you know,
basically gaining control over addictive technologies. It really struck me just because again for many younger people, like the allure
of the smartphone isn't an obscure phenomenon. Like we talk constantly about unplugging and the benefits it's had on our own mental health, Like just anecdotally amongst ourselves, your book address is sort of one of the main I feel like cycles of emotions many of us have in relation to using screens, where like we get motivated to use the screen less and then we're like, oh, this feels great.
Then we are sucked right back in and we feel like shit, and it feels like like we kind of come down to like I don't know, it's wow, Like I just lack the self control. It's sort of like the final sort of sentiment people land on and like
grappling with technologies. As a new parent too, I'm just again very aware about screen time and I also feel that like there's a certain futility around it too with a lot of parents or they're like, I don't know, you know, sooner or later it's just going to be normal for them, and maybe I'm trying to delay the inevitable.
But it also apps. I've seen how much it can help, you know, put a kid at ease and allow somebody to do something else where do you feel like parents and people kind of fit into this mix where we're like the world is spinning around us, and we're like, am I bad? Or what is happening? Like is our brains meant this? Or we up against something a little bit more intense than we realized. I think we're an interesting place right now because we have a lot of information.
We have lots of information from whistle lowers from the tech companies telling us how tech companies are addicting us to keep us online for longer. But still we keep blaming ourselves. We keep thinking it's our fault and we are unable to stop spending time online. We blame our kids, we blame our families. The problem is that that's exactly what the tech companies want us to do, and that's why they're giving us all these tools to make us
feel like we're in control. So once the evidence came out that it's that they're trying to addict us, they gave us these digital well being tools. You know, everybody who has an iPhone has this screen time, so you know how much time you are online, or you can even limit the time on your apps, or you can make your gray or they're warning you could put warnings on Instagram and not to talk about parental controls, which
are getting more and more complicated. And but the thing is these are just there so we all feel like we're doing something, but they're not really there to make us succeed because they do not really change the most addictive features in our devices or in our apps. There are just there, so we will think that it is
our fault, exactly like you were describing. And again, how in this world right if we're pivoting from it's not us because it's like, you know, you've likened it to like the tobacco industry, where like they know they know it, they know it bad for everybody, but then the gas lighting starts and it's like I don't know about them. I mean, we know what's going on, but we're not
going to actually cop to it. Do you see like a similar evolution where on some level, I mean, because I feel like if anything, like you're saying, like the markets and capitalism a very good way of shielding themselves from like having the profits go down, so they'll find a way like you're saying, to be like no, no, you actually have control. It's not the it's not the other things that were just identified clear as day by
someone working on it. You have control. Now you know what what what does that sort of battle look like. I think we're fighting the battle in the wrong place. Now we're finding fighting with ourselves, we're fighting with our families. I think we have to shift to the public sphere. And it is already happening. There's lots of action already taking place. There are parents suing social media for addicting their kids, causing mental harm, parents suing game manufacturers. There
are things happening. But I think people have to understand it's not just flawyers, it's for everybody, because everybody can shift what they're doing to the collective sphere. Parents can go to schools. They have an influence about what schools are doing. Schools on our exemising technology in the classroom because that's the federal policy. Well this could be changed. You can decide whether something is useful in the classroom,
certain technology is useful or not. You can decide whether you want the kids to be on their cell phones during recess instead of talking to each other. So that's the spaces when you can change things, and you can change normals. Something you're saying, you know, maybe it's already happening, but the new norms evolving every day, which I'm making it worse. I was in vacation with my kids and there was a family in the pool and my son
was calling me to look at this. There were two girls, I think nine and eleven, and their parents gave them these plastic pads to put their iPhones inside so they can use the iPhones in the pool instead of playing. Now, you know, this is evolving trend, just like a few years ago it started to evolve take the kids out with iPads to the restaurant. Now so many people about doing it, So there are ways too. I think things
are going to change. I think they're going to be lots of legal action and tech companies will be restricted in what they could do, but it will take some years. So thinks people can do things as business owners. I mean in New York City all the airports. If you go to an airport, there are four iPads at every table. There is no way you can have a conversation there. So this is architecture for overuse. You can change. If
you own a restaurant, you can change. You should don't have to use iPads, you don't have to use QR codes, so people will take out their phones the moment they sit down. So I think there are a lots once people are worth a lot of things they can do until things will change, and I do believe they're already
starting to change. Have you heard of like the third spaces concept or theory about how there needs to be a place for people outside of like work and the home, for them to like gather and to exchange information and you know, basically develop culture. I think a lot of people are saying that the phones are now teenagers and kids third spaces because a lot of other third spaces
have become unsafe and unaccessible and inaccessible to them. For example, my friend posted about how in New York when she was growing up, it became illegal for kids under eighteen to go hang out at the mall. And apparently that's a thing that's been happening a lot. Whereas when I was growing up, that's where we would go and hang out with our friends. We'd go to the mall, we'd hang out and go to Jomba juice. You'd like, I'd try not to leave the bookstore with too many purchases.
You know, like you you'd hang out, but now it's considered like loitering or whatever. Like a lot of these external places that are meant for cultural exchange and you know, kids to grow up are becoming unavailable to them. And also, honestly, with like mass shootings and all of that, people get more scared of going out in public and it seems to be safer to have them just like inside on their phones, which it doesn't necessarily you know, there are
other risks with that. So I think it would be I like how you highlighted it, that it's going to be an effort on these places and these people who are in charge of those areas, because it really does require cooperation between them and between the companies that are like forcing their technology on people. Yeah, and I think a lot. Municipalities can do a lot because they can create spaces for people to hang out and for kids
to walk to. If you have places to be together, it's very different than if you go home after school and sit in your bedroom with your phone. Because the statistics at by shocking. I mean, kids are meeting I think fifty percent less than they used to be in the eighties and parting. I think thirty three percent less then not getting together. So you can't by design create
spaces for people to get together. So I mean, if you think about bars that having a cigarettes today, this seems so implausible, you know, before it happened and things look different now. Can you think about a bar without
every person having their phone next to them? Yeah, it's it's it feels like in a way, like it's almost futile to try and reverse things, like in a way because like, for example, one of the last concerts I went to, like amazing show and there are people experiencing the concert through their cell phone, like so much like
watching you such a pet peeve of mine. I saw Tom Petty in in person and I was in like the first or second row, and this girl next to me literally was on her phone and she was like, oh my god, this is such a great song to delete pictures too, And I was like Tom Petty is on stage right now, right, or that we've lost the bit like even like with the example of people like in a pool, right, like that swimming isn't enough on some level, that like the just being able to play
in the water is not like stimulating enough that we're now adding like well, what if we augmented that with some like audio visual stuff too that I'm like, because again, I think this is what feels difficult for people, like even myself. I was. I remember when I got my last vaccination, I forgot my phone in the car, and then when you go in there, you gotta wait like twenty minutes after like for them just to chill out.
And I was like, first, I was panicked because I'm like, I haven't had to wait without my phone in ages, and I there was a moment of sincere like fear, not fear, but like I was, I became uneasy and I didn't like that. I felt so disarmed to just exist in a space without a fucking screen to look at. And it was funny because I sat down in the chair like in the you know, pain relief medicine aisle, and I was just doing I felt like a kid again. It was like, I'm like reading all the labels. No,
I'm just like, I'm gonna read all the labels. Yeah, that's I go. If I got twenty minutes to kill, I'm gonna start reading labels and just start being in my own thoughts again. And it was interesting how foreign that felt to me even though I was you know, I was born in the eighties, like I'm older millennial.
I grew up in the pre internet time too, which felt like the most Like all humans are probably wired to want to do this and connect to other people, but we've definitely it's become so normal that to the point where feeling human feels foreign, And that's what's really scary to me. Well, I don't think we get to go back in time, but I think we can balance things better. Imagine if you went to concert and the concert whole said no phones, so nobody could take off
their phones to take pictures. Maybe the phones will be in their bags. That is changing the norms in a way it could be done, and that things will affect everybody.
But I guess, like in there, right, there's an argument to say, like, well, if someone actually needed to contact me during it, then that would be like why would how would like how do you find a way that makes it so it's not just sort of like across the board no phones, but we're able to, Like I guess that's the hard part of Like there are phones for taking no pluonts for taking pictures of the show. You can do so with you. But yeah, that's museums.
They do that too. Like I tried to take a picture of a painting recently into like no no, no. Yeah, but it's also like that painting is gonna be online. Nobody's gonna take you. Like I don't need to take a picture of that painting. Yeah. One thing that helped me is like literally spending more time with people and like making an effort to do that, to like leave my home and go spend time with people. I'm trying to do that like once a day because I work remotely.
And then the other thing is like I have dogs and when I walk them, one of them's a little monster and he will try to eat stuff, and so I have to like pay attention. And now I'm like I know where all the good sticks are, you know,
I know where all the great grasses. I'm like going back to when I was a kid and I was just outside playing with my dogs, and it's so nice to take a walk outside when it's sunny here, lay and be with my pets, you know, and talk to people who have pets and connect with them that way. You know. So having things and people around you that take you out of your head and like give you
an external like rounding two. Community is so important. That's why I love like mutual aid and like physical activities that like help with community things, because that really nourishes a part of you that cannot be nurished in the
same way through a screen. Yeah, I've like in the same way, like walking around my neighborhood and doing the unthinkable of talking to a stranger has been the one thing that I've felt really balances things out because there was I saw a recent study that like the people have a sincere fear of small talk falling apart, and like they like people just have an eight sense, like that if people begin small talk and the conversation goes south, that it's suddenly on them, and like people get their
own anxiety of not being able to like keep up small talk, which is wild because and sometimes you're just exchanging pleasantries and it doesn't have to be more than that. But I feel like there's like these certain small things you can be doing, but at the same time we're developing like also bad habits around how we communicate to It's also crazy because everybody has a podcast, so how
are they scared us? All? Yes, all right, guy interrupted, I'm saying it's also bad for people's well being, because there are studies which are showing that people's happiness it's not just about a long term relationship, but also about these most small interactions exactly the small talk, this eye contact and a smile that really changed the way your
brain works and makes you feel much better. And if you're not doing that, and if you're just walking in a street with your phone, looking at your pictures, answering text, and you're missing all these opportunities which somehow just makes you feel drained and tired and not good at the end of the day. Just when it comes to policy, I feel like there's a difficult path ahead, you know. I mean, like we saw how seriously they took privacy in Europe. The US is a little bit behind, a
lot behind. It's like say, for maybe like California and a couple other places, but like in just in the recent hearing on TikTok, it's so clear, at least in that the narrow context of that hearing, like they just weren't even able or willing to discuss the broader problems with social media, and it became sort of this like
very TikTok specific thing. While we've seen to your point, whistleblowers at like Facebook, etc. Say like these are real issues, they've had hearings, but then we're not quite seeing the
follow through. What you know, what kind of like policy proposals are out there, do you think are would actually benefit people in a way that sort of gets to the heart of you know, like our overuse of technology, obviously knowing the parts that it's helped make things easier for us, but also addressing like the bigger issues of
you know, feeling increasingly isolated and things like that. Yeah, so I think first of all, the issue with TikTok is complicated because it just brings out completely different issues related to China, and it just it's sort of marking the whole debate. Yeah, but there have been a lot of bills both further all in state trying to get first of all, the addictive features of the phones, because there's some features on our phones which are really up
to no good. What are those from the flashlight? The flashlight is useful, but you know, for example, streaks on Snapchat. Yeah, there are there for nothing but to get you to go back to the platform. So kids have to set kids. I don't think many adults use it, but you know, they have to send a streak to their friend and if they get one within twenty four hours, they've established a street and they keep accummolating them and then they have a number, let's one, one hundred and thirty four.
They have special badges and they have older friends onto the number of streaks. Now, there's no requirement for any content in these streaks. You just have to make sure you send it. Why because you go to snapcheck and you see the ads and if the kids miss a day, they lose everything and they lose all their friends. And that's why they get so upset when the parents take away the phone, because they for them it's a huge thing.
So all these kinds of features like Snapstreak, you have just there to make it go back to the app with a device, are not needed, and there are builds which are trying to outlaw these kinds of features. Of course, the problem is they'll always come with new ones. Because the whole business model is based on our time and
our data. They need us to be there for as long as possible so they can collect more data on us, so they can target advertising at us, and again we have to be there for longer so we can see the ads. So that's why I think it's not just one thing, not just one law, not just one wonderful Supreme Court case. It's not going to happen like that.
It's going to happen from a mixture of things that are going to happen, Like if you have the antitrust lasses against big tech, that if, for example, the merger between them, the right now matter owns Facebook owns WhatsApp owns the Instagram. If they're broken up and there's more morenivation, more competition, we might see the different business model which are not based on our time. So so that's another
thing that's happening. I think, as I said earlier, I think the policy about maximize the technology in the school has to change because if Minecraft is homework, then how can you prevent your kid from play Minecraft at home? There are so there are a lot and then there's class actions and if you look back, it's cigarettes. You know, we know cigarettes are bad, but it took decades to change things. It took class actions, and it took advertising, and it took warnings and and this is this is
going to be the same. It will take a lot of things at the same time. For example, let's say we have ratings for addictiveness. You know, so many parents download games for the kids, thinking oh, Minecraft is an educational game. If they could see before they download, this is high rating for addictiveness, they may not do that. But not only that, the game's company may change the game because they want people to download the game, so
they might take the addictive features out by themselves. So it's a matter of pressuring from many directions to move things right. And like when you talk about cigarettes, I know, like the earlier ideas or like maybe in like the fifties where they knew where do you think we are, Like if the first studies come out there, Oh it's bad. Are we close to like the truth dot com era of like anti smoking ads? Or are we like a decade away? How I mean? I guess now everything is
moving faster. So maybe what took you know, decades before, it might take seven years. I don't know. Well, I think what change would cigarettes? Yeah, you're right, the first studies came out in the fifties. Nineteen sixty four, the Certain General announces the Health Hazards It's amazing. It took so long considering how bad cigarettes are, right, but from then on we saw you know, advertising, we saw one.
Things took a while, but they started shifting. Our problem is right now we are still in the science wars. We do not have you know, a big of metal organizations saying this is bad, especially for children. With the evidence is in, we just have partial recommendations for small kids about screens. I think we have so much data
over the last two or three years. But I think we're at a place where medical organizations, governmental entities can make these proclamations and from that moment on polity and proceed faster. And we already have a lot of action in place, so I hope that, yeah, things will move faster. And with cigarettes, I think it will take some years.
And that's why I think it's so important what people do in their communities, how they change their business norms, how they change their schools, because things have to happen at the same time. Otherwise it affects all of us not to mention a whole generation of kids already in front of screens for a decade plus a pandemic. Right.
It's interesting that you were talking about this now because ten years ago, when I was in a little bit more than ten years when I was in college, people were failing out of a very great college for Minecraft. Like it was a joke about how many students would fail because of their addiction to Minecraft specifically. So it's interesting that you use that and that they haven't really changed much. It seems like in the last you know, decade, Yeah,
why change It's a winning formula. And what do you kind of say, because I like to you know, people that are frustrated, parents that are frustrated, who are like, am I fucking up? Like? Am I bad? Because would you say to Miles, my kid is too young although he loves the sopranos, I'm gonna say that whenever he turns his head, I'm like, I don't almost be the lights or the mom But like, what do you what
I mean? Because I think again, there is this feeling of like it feels so personal that too when you talk to other parents about scream time, like, hey, what the fuck do you want me to do? Man? Like, it's I got a lot going on? This is this, this works? And I get that there is this internal sense of like responsibility. But then feeling helpless because there is like a what am I going to do a thing?
What do you say to people who are sort of like in that mental space and like how to sort of emerge from that or at least to begin to look at the situation with a little more like context. So I'll start with you, Miles, since you have a very small baby, so I think for you it's easy because you can just decide not to give your baby screen. The studies are in the smaller child where the baby
is the worst it is, and you have control. So and I think people have a lot of control all the way through a lamentary school that so I think parents can really limit kids screen time. The issue becomes when they get to middle school because social life is in social networks and you can't really eyes it at your child, and that's when it becomes a problem. And you can do things in the meantime. You can model. I mean I try when I'm home and all my
kids are here, so I don't have to worry. I try to put the phones somewhere away from me, and so you can do things, and you can do small things for yourself. You know, again, when I work, because I am as I mentioned I'm as addicted as all of us despite everything I know. I always put my phone on twenty minutes a timer and I write for twenty minutes, and then I check my emails and I do this again. There are things you can do, and
you can also kids remember the pandemic. They remember how they felt, so you can talk to your mind them how they felt horrible at that time and how they felt much better when they saw people, so you can make a difference. You cannot force an older kid not to do that. It's not going to work. I mean. And also that's smarter than us with technology, they'll always
beat us. It's not going to happen. So I think it's a combination of doing what you can and while also realizing this the broader situation too, by not blaming yourself. It's the most important thing because that that is the problem now that people are sitting there and thinking it's all their fault. Right. Yeah, we're like in the plastic straws debate where we're like, actually, what about No, it
can't be down to my level. What about the companies that are actually the ones that are steering all of this? And I think that is an important thing to sort of resenter, like in the in the conversation, I have a couple of comments to make on that I do think that like watching kids, because I tootor a lot
of kids and like watching them. I feel like overall, with technology, just like with life, like you, you really do have to raise them the way that you think you should raise them, and then try to be as involved as you can without being overbearing and allow them to like make their mistakes, and then you kind of have to hope that like those values that you passed on to them guide their use of technology as well, and that they come to you when they're scared or
they like need help with something. It seems like to me, I'm a I'm a parent to dogs, so I don't have to worry about this. But we did watch the Public Bowl and they were addicted. But also the other thing is you're talking about how you don't have to worry about it with smaller children, But FaceTime is how I stay connected with my nephew, And I know plenty of people that purposefully like FaceTime family members like they're infant children, just so that they hear the voice, they
see the face. Then they start associating that face with the screen, you know, with the good feelings with the screen. But that's the only way, like I can keep in touch with him because he's it's such a long distance and I know that's slightly different than games and stuff, but I also want to worry about that, you know. I think it's a great example because it's important to also remember that not or screen is made alike. I think, you know, connecting with people over FaceTime is a great thing,
especially relatives who live away. You know, being able to read the New Times or any news is different. The problem becomes when you're selling things as educational games and people are playing them and they get all these dopamine bursts from playing, or social networks you get the dopamine burst from the comments and the likes. So there's a big difference between games and social networks or or YouTube where the one short video you know, hands and the
next one stalls and and talking to Grandma on FaceTime. Yeah, okay,
that makes me feel better, thank you. Yeah, it's I mean, it's but I mean, these are all things, like like you said, like Paula, be like you have concerns, Like I was, like talking to my dad on FaceTime who was like not able to see my son and for you and you, I mean he's not really able, like he can't my son can't see na where he's like associated all this too, but to your point, like how the beginnings of your relationship to the screen begins, and
and and guy, you also mentioned this too, like like not using the phone in front of the kids too, because I've seen my other friends do that where they're trying to say like I don't want my kid to think that when you're not doing something, you look at your phone or that that's that's what is normal, Like you can be active, or you can do other things,
or you can like read a physical book. But some I've heard people say like I don't want my kids like early memories of like me being like I'm looking down at this like glowing rectangle and baby, ye see that that just like sort of the most normal thing. Obviously, you know, we have to use our phones. But I get that they're like it's it's all very subtle and how like kids begin to like see what's normal or
not normal? Yeah, and I think you know that. Yeah, the studies show that parents who are having users their kids also, have you used the phone. On the other hand, it's hard. You know you're there, but you're using a phone because you're texting your babysitters and you can't find a babysitt and you're texting another. So it's it's not Sally, it's not. There's no perfect solution. We're not living in a perfect world for this, so we can just try
our best, but it's not. There's no easy way out right now right, I think that sums up so many of what we're experiencing in this present moment. Can I just say something that might help this story come full circle? Yes? Um, I just an article that said Pablo Xavier, a thirty one year old construction worker from the Chicago area, said he was tripping on shrooms last week when he came up with the idea for Pope Francis his puffy jacket image.
So he was out in the world something drugs, yes, experiencing community and nature and stuff when he came up with the things that'll do to your brain. You know, just yeah, small talk with people. But again, I think yeah, important that if we understand that it's like this very complex issue where it's such a double edged sword where it's given us things like being able to connect with people when we need to and in ways that are much better than just like talking over the phone or
writing something. But at the same time there's also this like commodified monetized, you know, use of technology that is purely built on extracting as much eyeball time from you as possible, and you know, not reckoning with that is creating a bit of a slippery slope. But that's why I thank you so much, Professor Guy burn Scene for stopping by the daily sitegeist. Where can people find you and your work and read more from you if they
would like to? So my website is guy burns seem dot com and my book is available on Amazon Bars and I will every every place you would normally purchase your book. And thank you so much for having me. Oh no, no, no, you classed up the joint with your apies. And is there any work of social media or anything that you would like to point to that you were enjoying If not, it's all it's I get it. We're trying to get enjoying you not the right world.
But I've been looking at Israeli and there's been lots going on the protest, and my best friends sent me a video of herr and thousands of women dressed as the Handmaid's Tail costume because there's a big constitutional reform attempt which also undermine the rights of women LGBTQ people. So I look at this video a lot, and I'm happy to be able to see this video even though I was not there, and I still wish I was
there with everybody. Yeah, it shows you what what a general strike can do too, because I believe Netanyahu said he's going to delay that plan as a result of that. Hey, collectivism works, you know, general strikes, Trium out America and Polavie. Thank you so much for joining me today. Where can people find you and follow you? See you all that? And what's a tweet that you like? I'm at Pola Viganalan everywhere. Good luck spelling that. I'm tired of spelling
it out. I've been doing a lot of stand up lately, so come see me perform because I don't want to, as a content creator, have to post to Instagram every day so that real will pop off so I can just be on stage surrounded by people. I don't like that either, that I get punished for not posting everything all the time. I am. I'm so tired of it. My favorite tweet this have you seen banshees of any year? In? No, it's on my list though, Oh my god, it is
so good. Yeah. But it's about a friendship falling out. And there was an image of the two main characters you know in that from that movie, and then someone tweeted, I just don't want to do laundry and taxes with you no more. It's a valium breaking up his friendship. And then someone else quote tweeted that with nothing nowhere, never happening again, and I thought that was amazing. And that was at Senna Cianna Dublin and at Runs with Skizzers. All right. You can find me at Miles of Gray
on Twitter and Instagram. I've been I don't know anything. What have I liked on? I haven't I'm not gonna, haven't looked on. Oh. I like all the messages people have sent me on Instagram welcoming back. That has been fantastic. I really appreciate all the listeners reaching out with your kind words and reminding me that I will know how to say foot notes when the time does come. You can also find Jack and own our basketball Poe cast
Miles and Jack got Matt boosties. Also, I'm on four twenty Day Fiance We'll be coming back soon where Sophia, Alexander and I talk about our favorite reality show, ninety Day Beyonce. You can find us at Daily z et Geist on Twitter, at the Daily ze Geist on Instagram, got a Facebook fan page and website Daily zat geys dot com. We're posted episodes on our footnotes probably one time footnote footnotes thank you, where you can find leading all the articles that we talked about, as well as
the song we are going to ride out on. What song is that? Oh well, thank you for asking. Today. We are going to go out on this track called Grateful by El Michael's Affair with Black Doought rapping over it. El Michael's Affair is a great band. I love all their instrument of music. Black Dot is the goat you know when he starts rhyming. This track is really dope, is heavy. If you like Black Doot, you're gonna like this. If you like hip hop, you've got to check this out.
And even if you don't, it's a good track. It's called Grateful, which we are for sure. Oh Michael's affair in Black thought, that's gonna do it for us today. We're gonna be back later with to tell you what's trending, and then tomorrow with a whole new episode. So until then, just you know. This is a production of iHeartRadio. So for more podcasts, check out the iHeartRadio app for app podcast wherever you get them. All right, talk to you then bye.