#5 - Ed Wischer on Finding Happiness, Meaning and Purpose in Life.

We dive deep into topics including finding happiness, meaning and purpose in life, authenticity and the power of meaningful conversations. It's always a fun time when we catch up and this was no different. I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope you do too.

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I think just growth, especially the last six, six weeks to eight weeks of really sort of found a direction I want to go in, in, uh, in moments of meaning and personally. So it's good to just sort of have that goal to drive you along because sometimes I find a heat periods where I really don't know where I'm doing. And I find that quite confusing, which I think a lot of people could probably relate to. Yeah, 100%. Excellent. And you've been feeling well, uh, in the last week, but in general, yes.

Yeah. Now I've been a bit under the weather for the last week. That's why I'm a bit croaky are than I am usually. But a been, I don't know, things have been really good. Um, so you know, that's always a good place to pay. So I'm enjoying that in the moment and no doubt there'll be for the patches in the future, but enjoying where I am right now. Wicked. Wicked.

So for everyone listening and those that don't know you, can you give us a bit of a wrap up on kind of like what's brought you to you are today? So

And I suppose the most defining thing in my life now is what I do with moments of meaning in terms of I guess I quite a normal life in a boring sense in terms I didn't push myself very much or it didn't expand on any sort of skillset or anything along those lines. So this has been, uh, uh, probably the last 18 months has been huge in terms of my personal growth, which has been really good. Awesome. Awesome. So tell us about moments and many, because I met you when it was humans of happiness.

Yes. And it was such an awesome project that kind of, we kind of fell into talking to each other through Ed interviewing someone else, which was my housemate at the time. And then you've now transitioned into moments of meaning and tell us more about that and what brought that about first with humans of happiness and then what's transitioned you in and why are you doing it?

Um, I guess we'll start with how to evolve because the last 12 months especially, it's been, I've probably changed sort of styles and the project three times now. I think, um, it sound loud as the human, well, the happiness project first and then it was a human happiness project. Um, that change was just because it was certainly happening as projects out there just decided to make a name for myself and be anything sort of different. Um, and that's fun. That handle on Instagram? No. Oh, I got it.

But it was just like those a thousand other ones like underscores or they've got two peas or whatever it was. I was like, oh, that's going to be hard to break into. Um, and the general premise isn't real. It revolves around people and human beings and their story and their sort of journey through life. So it sort of started from a place where I was not in a good way at all. I had lost my happiness through probably the three worst events of my life, uh, happening within the space of four days.

Whoa. Sorry that was not fun. Um, girlfriend at the time who I was hoping I'd be able to spend the rest of my life with who was unfortunately in Germany, she, uh, we feed that it couldn't work and we couldn't have the relationship we wanted to happen, haven't have. So I would, you know, we split up. Um, and then, which was fine. It was a mutual decision.

Um, but then the next day mom or dad called me who've always had a stable relationship and thought, and I was told that they probably going to split up and dead wouldn't be living at home. By the time I got back, I was like, oh, well shit, that's not very good. And then, uh, had a day's break and then on, I think it was the Thursday of that week, I got a call from mom saying, your grandma will probably be gone by the time you get home because I was traveling at the time.

Yup. And she was a huge part of my childhood, basically rise as well. Mom was still working. Yep. Um, and very heavily involved. So that was just like, ah, my three main pillars of support being knocked out from underneath me. So essentially I was at this point in my life where I guess for lack of a better term, my goals and value system had been completely shaken to the core and I was really questioning why I was doing the things I was doing for the first time.

So it was sort of like a externally imposed self awareness, which is quite jarring. So I was just, I don't know, I'd go on to uni and I was going to get this job so I could have a family, which, you know, and raise them and give them a good life. And, uh, that old made more sense when I was with the girl that I wanted to be with. Yup. So that was, that was very motivating at that point. But then after that was gone and I guess my idea is the family structure sort of deteriorated a little bit.

Uh, now I can realize that was just because I wasn't in a good emotional stipend at the Thomas was like, well, what's the point? Um, so then I would just sorta really questioned what I wanted to do. But then the most obvious thing for me was that I couldn't find any happiness in my life and I was usually, you know what I mean?

I'm quite bubbly and like I do like to get quite deep a lot of the time and I do really enjoy genuine conversations that have a lot of depth to them, but I was really struggling to find any sort of happiness in my life. Um, so I just tried to get back into all retainer, just wasn't funny. And then I started asking these questions to people like, have us you twice now. I'm like, what's happiness to you?

Like, what values are central to your, to meaning in your life and you know, what gives you purpose in life because this is really happening is purpose and meaning I was just missing all through them. Um, and obviously they mean different things to different people, but I couldn't find that in my own life, which is really difficult for me.

Um, like he can leave without one or two of them, but generally you can't live with that all three, I think that's been sort of depression starts creeping in and stuff like that. Um, so I started asking people these questions and then someone sort of said in this sort of, just off the top of the head though when I was talking to them about it is before I was documenting it all. Like this is like, this is, these are really interesting questions you're asking me.

Nobody else asked these questions, so where'd you, where'd you get these questions from? Was that just what made you actually ask people? Was it just, you're just curious to know? I was searching for myself. Yeah. So like I was asking, the happiest people I know are the most driven people. Like you know, what gets you out of bed in the morning, what gets you going head? He pushed through rough periods in your life because obviously that's what I was in.

And then I couldn't, I found these people couldn't answer these questions either. And then someone just randomly, I kind even remember who it was. Just these are really interesting, you should document this. Um, so then I picked up a camera and just started taking photos of people and um, Austin these questions and then that was the human happiness project.

But now it's evolved into moments of meaning where it's what I like to call a cinematic storytelling experience where I video the paypal now interview them about their lives and it's more based around the sort of values, um, relationships and experiences that lead to a life of meaning and purpose. Obviously that's specific to that individual.

Um, and I just mash it up into like two, three minute videos and trying, just immerse an audience within that experience in the hope of passing on the life lessons. Or some little tidbits of wisdom, wisdom at that person has to share to essentially, I guess, guide people, entertain them at the very laced, um, because I'm a firm believer that everybody has a story to tell. And you would be amazed at what people will tell you if you just give them a nonjudgmental forum to express themselves.

And it's, if you don't answer it honestly, you're not being the authentic you. And I've found even when, when you've asked me some of them or when I've been watching them, I'm like, that's man to share that. That's a lot of courage to share that stuff.

But yeah, so much respect for those people when they get out there, open up and share what they're going through, what they've been through, because there's a good chance as somebody else that's gone through that and they just want to know that somebody else has gone through that and they've turned out okay.

Um, like obviously I know that 99.9% of my audience won't be able to relate to that, but it might be that one person who is struggling with an eating disorder that says that he has that little bit of information that goes like, oh, this is how it got out of it. And then they go, oh, well, you know, maybe I'm going to try that.

And it's just that little, they just, that little thing that just gets them going on their way and maybe that helps them, but you know, and that's the overarching premise for me is to sort of instill that, those life lessons with people because I think unfortunately our communication is not that good anymore. We're very, we're just so self focused at the moment. Um, and I think a lot of people talk with the intention of being heard, if that makes sense.

Yeah. Rather than they don't talk to someone with the intention of hearing them. Yeah. So if I go, Hey Carla, how are you? I'm really Aussie. I'm just hoping that you're going to turn it around and go, I'm good. How are you? So like, it's not, um, I like, I don't really care how you're doing all I want, all I care about is sort of, I guess even if it is you just doing it out of reflex, someone asking me how, how I am and I know that's like, you're very good at his ego. Like how are you?

And then you'll stop someone and go, no, how are you? Sort of thing. It's not about me. It's about you. Exactly. Um, it's uh, sorry. And that's one of the things I try and bring to my interviews is I don't judge people. I won't ever tell them their opinions wrong, even though some, a lot of the things that I hear just don't run, don't really alarm with what I think and feel. Yeah. Um, and I think that's important and I think that's life. I think that's, yeah.

And I think, um, um, and that's why I don't have an overarching narrative in terms of like, I could edit things the way I want to see your point. Um, or I could make, I could make like, I can make you look like an asshole, like through cutting in and stuff like that. Oh, I could do it. We don't think so. With what I said, I don't understand like analysis. I'll, well arrogant. I Dunno. Maybe, maybe you could do a voice over with your voice in my lip movements. Maybe see how we go.

Um, but like either way, like I could edit things out to make people depressed or happy, like it depends. Like you, you'd be amazed what you can do in terms of like the psychology of watching someone in terms of even color grading or the music or something like that. But, um, I don't do that and I do that. I intentionally don't push a narrative. It's just about the person and you want to engage to express their story.

Um, and obviously some people don't have something to contribute to everything that I ask or they're not sure. And some people just say, I'm going to pass on that question. Like, some people don't, haven't like actively thought about honesty or gratitude or things like that, but they might have a great lesson to learn through the, the things that I failed at. Yeah. Um, so it's, uh, it's definitely interesting, like no interviews ever been the same.

Even if it just comes down to the personality of the person, but it's, um, is on the hall. It's been an amazing journey in like, even if it never makes me a dime, it's not something I ever planned to give up on because it gives me a lot of fulfillment and it does give me that meaning and my purpose in my life. Like it's not something I always enjoy doing is sometimes like when I'm just tired or I can't be bothered going to that interview.

Yeah. But it's like everything, once he gets started and you're there, you actually find yourself enjoying it quite a bit. Or like, I don't want to edit the video, but literally did it yesterday. I was like, I'm going to edit this video together today. And then I did it all. I was putting it off till 7:00 PM and then I was just like, all right, let's just, you know, just stop. Even if you do 15 minutes, that's better than zero minutes today. And then two and a half hours later I finished it.

So, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's out tonight. It's just been a very cool experience to me to have those very, very genuine conversations with people where they have a lot of depth to them. Cause I think in, you know, why that they are lacking in society. Like people are, it's very difficult to I guess I think the main thing is fun. The safe environment. Talk about that. Like I feel like we're judging and judged so often. Um, I don't know.

I don't actually think that's necessarily a bad thing because without any sort of judgment you really have the self reflection to improve. And I think there's, there's a lot of validity to saying that life should be based around improvement and growth. I think you said that in your interview. Like that's what, whether we realize it or not, that's what we're looking for in life is growth. And I think that's very true. Like I think about all the periods where I've been happiest.

It's when I've been developing in some aspect, whether that's emotionally, physically, professionally, you know, spiritually, whatever it might be. I think growth is essential to, I guess having that meaning in that purpose and that happiness in your life. Awesome. And I know you touched on why you do it and that it gives you that fulfillment, but yeah. Why, why did you even start recording it? Why, what?

I know it was like, you know, some was like, you should, you should record this, you should document it. But why? Like I know you work, you work a normal job just like myself, you know, the ins domains or means to an end. But it would you ever, when you say always get it mixed up, but yeah. Why, why do something else? Why, why, why step out? Why ask people why put in that effort after hours that's not getting paid, do this thing.

Um, I think at the start was a little bit of if I can save someone else, I could save myself. Girolami. Marco was set in such a bad way. I thought like if I could maybe pull someone else out of their bad spot, it would lift me out of it sort of thing.

Um, so I guess in that way it wasn't that selfless, but then I found that that authenticity and conversation and you know, connection wasn't in my life through the enjoyment that I got out of these conversations or even the ones that weren't enjoyable.

Um, they were quite dark and quite gritty and just like, but this is the reality that the person I was talking to lives with, like it might sound disgusting to me for lack of a better term or like something that I'm, you know, I'm shying away from her, I don't want to deal with like depression or talking about people. People talked about how they've been suicidal and all this sorts of things. And you know, I might, that's super confronting to me.

But like then if you look at it through the lens of this is something that this person deals with every day, whether it is depression or it is gratitude already is happiness. Like it's just really interesting to see how people at different, every single person is like on the whole agenda and the same. And I think the narrative for most people's lives is generally the same.

And I think every experience is relative in terms of, you know, you always say these things about like war stricken and poverty stricken countries and stuff fight that and you go, that is awful. And yes it is awful, but I don't think that diminishes day to day anyway in terms like that doesn't diminish the fact that you know, you're getting rear-ended. Yeah. He's, he's crap. Like that person that comes in and goes, what elation or in a war torn country.

I'm like, yeah, but like in the moment it's a relative emotional response. Like yeah, if you know, my mum got blown up by a bombshell last week, I'm probably not going to give a shit about my car getting rear ended. But you know, when you live in a country like we do, like it's all relative. So you know, I think, I think that's something we miss as well. We're always sorta electron to do that, especially with negative experiences. That one upmanship like, ah, you know, I had a rough way.

Cool. Like while I work more hours and you did NASA like shut up. Like, well you'll wake was bad. Exactly. And I think that's why people don't feel safe talking about these things sometimes because that instantly makes you feel invalid in holding your opinion. Yeah. If you, if someone goes are, you know, whatever it might be, I go Khalo on seek. Like I said it is diet. You could have come back and go on. That's cool man. Do you want me to I've and flew for three weeks and I'm still going.

I'm like okay, well you know, now I feel like crap for feeling the way I feel and I think that's really bad. Um, which is because it actually Connor runs cat or intuitive to like another sort of point of view I have in terms of like the broader society. I think on the individual level he should always give someone Tom and spice to voice their opinion even if you disagree with it or a lace voice, their experiences, if it's not their opinion

We've got this meat, flesh body that's like, hey man, I don't know what I'm doing but I'm just living in and just work and hey, I feel good one day. I've don't feel good one day. And it's like, and I love it. I love experience in this stuff. I love delving deep into it. It's funny because it is, people need to realize that it's, we're all, if you're alive, you're a human being. Congratulations. Like you made it now figure it out. Like there's no rule book, there's no textbook taught.

Figure it out. You're not going to feel good. Sometimes like yourself, you went through the worst for day, like very bad four days that I've heard of. Like, you know, everyone's got their own problems, but that sounds terrible. And from that you've been able to bounce back and like progressing onto, you know, what you're doing now. And then still having the other side of your life, which is still working and paying the bills and all that type of stuff and I'm just like, that's so cool man.

I love it. We appreciate that. I love it. There's always such a good conversation. There's always such a good spirit about you and like you're saying before, the selflessness that you were saying about you genuinely want to catch up when you talk to me, man, we equally just want to catch up with each other. We want to share what's going wrong. We want to share what's what we're excited about. We want to share problems we're having in, hey, do you know what can help? Like asking for help, man.

Wow, that's another big one. Sharing what's wrong, but then asking for help. I think that's the next step on top of those. Pride is a there. I had a really good law and the other day is a pride is the burden of a foolish man, but I really liked that because so often we're so proud we weren't, we just weren't asked for anything. Yeah, like ever. Even if it's just like a hand to help, especially dude's, we're really bad at it that, that manly. He just cause we want to fix ourselves sort of thing.

Um, but what do you mean? Oh Man, I don't cry. I need help. I don't see crying in the exists. Doesn't know what he's saying that, but I cried. I admit it. Yeah. But again, that's, that's relative is someone doesn't feel comfortable and I've seen seen people make like the comments of, you know, I don't want to share my emotions and I think that's something else we do. I think as a society we sort of very quick to go, well this sort of, you know, framework seems to help.

So we've got, at the moment I feel like it's, we're going to have to shove it down people's throats. Yeah. So a lot of men, I know this is huge around the sort of depression argument and stuff like that, like talk about it, blah, blah blah. But I've talked a lot of my friends and I get that we don't want to talk about it. It doesn't actually make us feel that much better when we talk about it. Yeah. Well yeah, when we should respect it.

And I'll find, I found when I was in my situation especially, and I'm actually very expressive emotionally, I didn't want to talk about it and it really pissed me off when people like, oh, what's wrong, Blah blah blah. What's wrong? [inaudible] what was that though? Was it all sort of fear or was it just that you just didn't want to like didn't want to share it? I just didn't want to share it.

Like to be honest, when I have a real issue I don't see the validity in talking to someone about it and cause very few more like I guess when I say someone, I mean I like if you just picked a random amount from the stresses of it. There are probably are very few and I think this is in general, there's very few people that we can reach out to where we were actually going to get constructive criticism on it. Um, and I think that's what

And the reason why I put it on Instagram and stuff fire is cause I was going through these pages and they were just like, you know, Instagram quite after Instagram quite after Instagram quote about like happiness is gratitude and all these super, super vague things. And I've always been someone that I'd rather just talk to someone about their experiences and sort of learn the lessons that they've got to give.

Um, and just everyday people because I think we're very quick to like cling onto a celebrity or an in a social influencer or whatever it is. Cause you know and you think for some reason just because they have a big Instagram following or they might be big in the mental health sphere or whatever isn't, they've got more validity to their experience in the person sitting next to you. But I can tell you he was going to have more influence on your sort of course through life.

It would be the person, whoever it is that you can sit down with for an hour and just talk openly. So like, and you just straight up cannot get that through social media as amazing it is. And I could not do what I do without it because I find 99% of my interview through there, you can not get the same sort of connection.

Yeah. And there's just a zero authenticity that as I say it, and that's one of my, I less, unless you bring it from the Internet and then catch up with that person human connection, which is exactly what I do in my interviews.

I made them meet them on the, on the Internet and then I will sit down with them first 60 to 90 minutes and we'll talk about their life and you know, just two people just hanging out pretty much, you know, just shooting them questions and they can just say what they need to say. And I don't judge it, don't say anything like that. I let them finish what they're saying, you know, let them ramble. They want to ramble sort of thing. Um, and it's just that open form of communication.

Like they can say whatever they want, like don't really care unless they say something like super homophobic or super racist. I'm not going to edit it out. Yeah. Cause again like your, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion as long as it's not hurting anyone. I think like I think for one like, and this is getting a little bit off topic, but like hurting and offending is at two very different things.

Um, and I think there's a problem we have in terms of like the breakdown of communication in society at the moment is he would get offended and then they instantly go, well you can't say that like, well, did you hurt the person alive? Are they actually having like emotional trauma because of this? So you just ruin the next five minutes of their life. Yeah. It was just your opinion and that person didn't agree with it all right. Yeah. Don't take that shit.

I think we are getting very close minded and I think it's getting better. And you mentioned this in your interview, like with sort of self awareness and stuff like that, it is getting better, but I think, um, and this sort of does link into the general sort of idea of what I'm talking about and the, the purpose in life.

I think people lack purpose and meaning, so they cling onto these ideals as an, as an identity for themselves, whether that's left wing, right wing, you know, I'm a lifestyle choice in terms of like gym fitness, dietary choice. If you like Paleo Keto, Feegan, you know, whatever it is. Um, feminists like men's rights activists, like whatever it is, I think people cling to this because they don't have a huge amount of meaning in their life.

And what these, um, these sort of ideals and these values and these movements have is they give you one, a sense of community because as soon as you put your hand up and go on be feminists and you've got to right activist, you've got people that just go bang, okay, we'll talk instant lines of communication instantly. My best friend. Exactly.

And then what else it does is you've got something to work towards now they'll be generally these movements, all these, whatever you want to call them, they will have a sort of goal. So if you're Keto Keto or whatever it is, you like, oh well you know, I've got my, even something as simple as my macros for the day. So you have a goal for that day. That's your thing. And like you're saying before Golson he and growth is so important to happiness and health and you know, just having a good life.

So I think that's why people still gravitate towards him. But the issue is with that is when you tired Auntie so heavily to an ideal, when someone runs counterintuitive to that, oh he something that's like Canada that then you, then you get like essentially you get a f you get offensive. But the only reason needs to be because someone's making you think critically and question your belief system there are attached to that. Id say that with like religions or whatever it might be.

If someone's super embedded in anything, any idea, it's very hard to get them out of it. And the reason being is because when you buy so much of your life around something and all of a sudden someone points out and going, well you might be wrong through their words or their actions and it might just based through passively or whatever it might be. That's like quite jarring for people and it's very hard for them to sort of, you know, to rebuild from that.

Yup. So it's much easier to cast someone down and deny this sort of thought process or their own ideal than it is to go, well maybe I'm wrong and maybe on a to evaluate myself. So that's one thing I'm extremely thankful for three moments of me is because I've talked to so many people is it has opened up my perspective of what people go through and they're sort of life's journey and one half privileged I've been and continue to be, but more just like, you know things I was saying before.

Like he, everybody goes through something and just because like I'll hear people talk about things that I don't see as a big issue, but when they talk about it, like you can see the emotion welling up on them and you've got a wall. Something like that wouldn't move me to tears but it has for this person or I hear people about like they've been betrayed by friends or pushed in the wrong direction just because they are looking for some sort of connection and stuff like that.

Like I think that's all too common. But like when you, when you openly listened to people, I think he learned a lot about yourself because again, like I'll, you know, talk to someone about gratitude or whatever it might be. And then I'll just go like, was I really, have I been grateful for what I want I'm doing. And so often I'll go like, Oh God, I wish this was making me money cause I don't, I'm not overly passionate about my job, my day job.

Um, so like I'm always like, sometimes I'll go into like, oh, this has to make money, this has to make money, sort of things.

I can live the life I want to live, but rather than being grateful, the fact that I've come as far as I have and had the influence that I have on people because it means more to me to get one genuine comment or one Joe in new and message from someone saying, this video or this piece of content really helped me than it does to have an extra thousand followers, 10,000 followers sort of thing. Like it's, I dunno like that, that human connection.

Like, I can't really state how important that is to me because it really does just give me a sense of meaning and purpose that I've never had in my life before. So that's, that's, and I think again, like I keep saying that's just something that so many people lack and it's there, like people want it, people screaming out for it.

Um, and I, I'd encourage anyone listening to go and talk to someone with opposing views to you just go and sit down with them and just don't go into the situation expecting to be offended because then you will be offended. Just listened to them. Or if they do say something offensive is for you, chunk down their throat straight away.

Um, just, you know, open yourself up to the idea of they might have a point and let them rationalize it because after you've actually heard what it is they're saying and why they're saying it and why they believe it, it might make sense or at least it will give you a reference frame to why they think that way. So you could, you might not agree with it still, but you might be able to go, well now I know, I can see where you're coming from. I know why you think that way.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's definitely been something that I've experienced through doing these interviews and even just asking these powerful impact questions to people is that I see people's different point of views, whether they are attached to a certain way of life, something that I don't understand, but then hearing them and listening to them, it's like, ah, interesting. Like I, I never, I don't

And that was one thing that I asked. Um, a certain person I said, is that way of life, the best way to be living? And their answer was yes. And to me it's like, man, I can't, I can't bring myself to say that. And why living the ideal life? Woo. I don't know. Like I think everyone's got something different. If it empowers you, fulfills you do what you want. Yeah, exactly. I don't hold the rule book. I'm not the Almighty that says this should be done this way.

If someone wants to be watching the guy on the tractor, um, sweeping the sand in the morning and we're like, man, do you reckon dreck and here's, it's really fulfilled doing that job. Like he loves it. He's like one of those people that has on his desk, one of the Zen gardens, little rates and sand and he's just done that on a bigger scale. That could be the case or it could be the case that this is just his day job in the morning, a couple of hours on the tractor raking out the sand.

So it was nice and flat for other people to enjoy. Who knows, but really does it effect, you know it's, that's just what it is. And I'm going back on what you're saying with the fulfillment and living a life of purpose. Like I heard it on a podcast with Jay shitty and he was saying that your passion is for you, your purpose is for others and it's living a life of service and that's what gives you fulfillment. When you can do something you love or passion, whatever it may be, like figure it out.

I can't tell you what it's going to be cause you just got to follow a lot of things that interest you, a lot of things that you like and then go further with them. And it might take 30 years to do, it might take you one year, but you'll figure it out. And then finding a way to turn that into a purpose to then serve other people and help other people. That's where film it comes four in life and you can get paid very handsomely to do those things if you want to. If not, then that's fine.

And that's like, this is why we relate so well because we're, you inspired me on the fact that interviewing people, recording that, getting it out there to an audience that will love hearing that. And for me, that's why the conscious podcast came about because it was like, man, I love this aspect.

And, and meeting all the great people like yourself that just have that, that show, that ambition, that show, that selflessness, that want to actually hear from people is where I was like, man, I love that. I want to do this. And I love meeting people. I love connecting with people. I build great friendships like ours. And this is where like we're at the stage in our lives where these side projects on top of our jobs and whatever

But especially in these lines of work, um, and these projects is they sort of, they worry about where the money's going to come from. And I've seen a lot of unfortunately a lot of things that are central to sort of helping people and creating a movement for lack of a better term or their, what they're selling even though they're not selling anything. He's an idea. Yup. And a value system I guess.

Um, but then I cash out really quickly when they get the slot as bit of hint of success and there's nothing that will make you look any more inauthentic, then you try to monetize your audience as soon as possible. And again, there are things where you're monetizing your audience right from the get go. Um, but things like way too, the reason people gravitate towards him, he is the authenticity.

So if your message is, I'm trying to help people, but you know, every second post you put up where he said every time it got it. Yeah. You know, every second Instagram stories, like he parked on the store sort of thing. And I see it a lot and I just think it's super sad because it just diminishes the effects of what you're doing so much. And it makes people question the authenticity. And again, the reason why people love these projects is because they are authentic.

So you need to align with that. And that's something that I've started with so much in terms of monetization cause I don't want to sell anything because my went about a message. I'm not about making money off my audience. Um, but there are ways to make money without, um, you know, through sponsorship or, you know, whatever it might be. Um, but there's ways to make money without actually having to directly sell anything to your audience.

Yeah. Um, but I think people very much underestimate, like you said, for one, I think people underestimate when they're starting anything new, whether it's a movement or business, something like that, how long it can take. I think people get very disillusioned saying like the Gary Vain and sharks, uh, the j Shetty's, the prince, ais, all those big sort of people, any sort of fitness personally that are just massive, what the huge accounts.

But they miss the, you know, five, 10, 15 years of grinding. Like I remember when I, especially when I started doing these videos or the photography, I was looking at my photos and looking at them, compare them next to like these massive photography counts and I was going to like water might look like. And then like a watch one of the youtube videos, one of the guys, he's like, I've been doing photography since I was 30 and he's in his mid thirties.

I'm like, oh cause he's only got 21 years and eight months more experienced than me. That would be why. Um, and I think that's just, yeah, I think that's another thing as well. It was so quick to look at the cause. We do have access to that 1% of the 1% now through social media. We look at them and go, well you know, I'm not there yet. And it's very, instead of baking, breaking it down into like I want to do, I want to have at least like whatever your standard is.

Like I want to be better by next month by this much growth yet. But instead you go, I need to be up here to have the lifestyle I want. You know, and I think people get way too focused on the end goal, which should be in mine, but you should be breaking it up into smaller goals. So for me it was like 10,000 Instagram followers, which I got, but then I was just like, no, absolutely nothing has changed.

Um, it wasn't just like, congrats, you've hit 10,000 followers, so now we're going to give you a million more. All the sudden like everything fucking changes. Like it's the same. And then I realize like I put so much time and effort into these goal that was just like, and that was a validation thing cause I thought, you know, then people would see my page and go, this is the real deal. Like don't get me wrong. Having that little k there, tank guy or whatever it is is like, it feels good.

Yeah. And um, then it goes like, and then I was sort of questioning like, am I doing this for the right reasons? It was, I'd be pumping out tons of content just to get more people through my page because I was posting like was was anything I was doing authentic in terms of that sort of generation of followers. And then I sort of realized like it wasn't, so I stopped using those techniques because it didn't align with my value system, which was the reason why I did so well at the start.

It was because I had a genuine message and I was pushing authenticity in a, essentially a social media environment that isn't very authentic. People were very, very quick to put up a, I guess a highlight reel of their life. I think I heard somewhere or one of my friends told me, um, and then I get people all the time saying like, why did he put depressing content up? Cause someone will tell me something quite real and quite raw and you would have seen them.

They'd look, they're not, they're not fun stories, but these are, this is what people experience in day to day basis and you can stay in your bubble and you can, um, you can, you know, you just keep believing that the world is the way exactly the way that you say it. Or you can extend yourself and, you know, talk to someone, watch a video or whatever it might be. Read a book, you know, and sort of realized that life comes in so many different shades.

And like I said, the narrative is generally the same, but the day to day can fluctuate so much. Yeah. Thanks so much for many people. Um, and I think it's very healthy to realize that your experience for one isn't the only experience. All the more, most important experience. It's very hard to get away from because we are generally geared towards, um, I guess self protection and self preservation for that will be a better way to put self preservation.

But um, I think are just without sounding too preachy, like I'd, I, I encourage anyone out there to just go out and help someone with without any intention of getting returned. Like so many people will like one of my biggest gripes ever was, you know, it went around Melbourne, a fair bit of giving a bag of food to a homeless person and filming it. Ah, yeah.

He doing that because you want to help that person and you're doing it because you want people to think that your, you know, magnanimous and you know, a kind soul look. It's a look at me. Yeah. It's virtue signaling. It was just like, I see that and you've just cheapened your act 100%. But I have seen a lady give a sandwich to a homeless man walking around the streets when I was walking around the streets of Melbourne.

And I'll just like that is a person that has genuinely more worried about that man and this moment that she is herself, I'm like, hopefully, hopefully in the perfect picture, that video that person puts up is genuine to the fact that it's inspiring others and showing them go do something like this. Hopefully. But that's me thinking on a perfect, uh, partially done. I don't believe that at all. I don't believe that.

And maybe I'm just in, I just involved myself too heavily in the wrong spheres, but, and the people I've talked to know it, like I've talked to so many, I think I'm up to, I'm coming closing in on 150 people now. Um, wow. Yeah, it's been a lot like, um, it's a, it's so people know that when people are being genuine and authentic and I think that's the issue is social media, these vloggers or influences whatever it is, it's just you can tell when they're doing something just for the likes.

It's like Drake released a video of him giving tons of money to someone else on a like, you know, if that came out in the news at Drake's been running around downtown La doing that, then you know, fucking good on him. But why do you need a film it and that's what like, and then I say that I'm like, is that a publicity stunt? Like the influence of the person's life hasn't changed in terms of receiving that money, but it's just like I wonder, I do wonder.

I sometimes I do sit was shitty do that just for the film clip or was it, is it something you generally you've got sometimes you just got a question. The intention behind it cause intentions, everything. Absolutely. Everything. Like if you intend to hurt someone then yes, you've been an asshole. If you just said something off the cuff and your intention wasn't to hurt someone, then that's, you know, then there's probably a little bit of leeway in terms of forgiveness and stuff like that.

Um, and I think again, that's something we've lost in society. Like we don't look at the intention behind someone's actions. Yeah. It's like sexism, Zola on sexual harassments everywhere. But like sometimes some people are just socially retarded and they don't realize it and what they're doing is making someone else uncomfortable. Yeah. So obviously the value system of those two people or the ideas of what's right and wrong, uh, not aligning.

Yep. So he might get some guy who's super, super, super emotionally retarded and socially retarded or social doesn't get in. It doesn't. Whereas he got, he got a lady who might be super, super high alert and like very sort of aware of these things. And then, you know, those two clash and all of a sudden he's, he's, uh, um, uh, sexual predators sort of thing. And I think you've got to look, you have to look at the intention behind things. Um, to a degree.

Obviously that doesn't apply to all things where I think we've just sort of, um, we're so focused on the result rather than the, we don't look at the whole picture. So we look at the final result of the person that impacted them. We don't look at, you know, why were the people involved doing what they were doing. I think that's, um, again it comes down to that self awareness and that sort of reflection upon actions and stuff like that. I think we're very, very, very reactive in society.

If I had to sort of encapsulate it terms of like we say something and we, you know, we want to react right away and we want to get our opinion out righ away and we want to let everyone know we have an opinion. I think that we feel the need to do that because we're not given spaces in our personal life to do that is very few safe spices where you can voice your opinion and you know, be heard authentically in your personal life. And I think we all crave that. We all want to be heard.

It's, it is a thing of validation. We all crave validation. Like you can't get away from it. It's all, it is very, very difficult to get away from it. So when you're sitting there and you feel like you haven't been heard or you're not being heard, then you know, it's very, you see situation where you can sort of take advantage of that and voice your opinion sort of thing. And it sort of, you know, that you will get that. You're probably going to jump on that. Yeah. Um, and it's not malicious.

I don't think people do it maliciously. They're probably genuinely believe what they're saying, but at the same time, I think it's very, you know, sometimes it's just easy and I think that's, that's it. We have a tendency to lean towards the easy path. I don't think that's where you find purpose in life. I think purpose comes out of hard situations and genuinely believe that.

And that's something I learned a very, very, very recently, um, because it's just, you know, if you want something, and maybe we've just got a short attention span now, maybe it's through social media in terms of like, there's that instant gratification all the time, but we just don't, we don't look forward. We're always thinking about what can benefit me the most right now.

But what the benefit you the most right now might have super negative consequences in a compounding sort of cents a year from now. You know, well, what's one chocolate bar going to hurt right now? But if you're always thinking about right now, all of a sudden you've had a chocolate bar every single day for the last year and now you're overweight, let's go 20 years from now. And then you know, you're a base and you've got heart problems.

Or on the positive to the side, you go, well, I could buy that chocolate bar or I could put $1 a $1 to savings account and then at the end of the year I've got without the compounding interest and all that sort of stuff, I've got $365 in the bank and then at the end of the 20 years you've got whatever that is, you know, nine grand roughly. Is that right? How many years did you say? 20 years. Three years, seven 30 70 whatever it is. $7,000 say you can go on a holiday.

So, but I don't think we have that foresight anymore. I think that's something that our parents did very well. And I think we, one of the things we get very caught up in ourselves. I think we have this huge tendency to look back at the past all the tragedies of it and how poorly things were done.

But we don't, when I think that's why we've lost certain values and society in terms of integrity and honesty and authenticity because I will old school values without also tied to these sorts of this society that they lived in life. Obviously did lots of things wrong yet. But I could, I think you could argue that we do lots of things wrong now as well.

I can live in your learn, but I think, um, yeah, we're so quick to throw out the baby with the bath water in a sense in terms of we see these things with so quickly to sort of judge the situation by its negative things and we can't sort of, we refuse to salvage the benefits out of it. And I think that's um, yeah, I think not just in terms of reflecting upon the past and the thinking like what did they do right?

Rather than thinking what did they do wrong, but also in terms of aim every day to eight day to day situation. Like you will learn the most through your lot in your life through your fail failures. Um, good quote I heard is the uh, the commodified comfort zones. A great place to visit, but I wouldn't stay there because nothing ever grows.

Um, so it was through like sort of pushing your boundaries and going through those values and you know, putting out content that might be shit or you know, doing a podcast that might not be great or even just starting

Something I learned very late in my life, but now that I've sort of come to terms with it, it's, it's servicing me like amazingly and it, it helps me every day and it started, it's not something I do every day lock. I know I'm preaching all these values, but I don't, I definitely do not follow them every day. It's very hard to live with that sort of integrity. But I think if you can do it, most of the time you're on your way to developing to the person that you want to be. All right, great.

And it's that, that daily work of doing that and owning the day and having that integrity to work on those things. And maybe they don't happen. Maybe you know, you miss three out of, out of 10, but as long as you're doing those other seven, those other five, there's other for things like for instance, you wake up, you make your bed type thing. Not everyone does it. I hold it as something that I need to do. It's just for me, something I didn't do.

I was as I was younger and um, you know, now doing, it's that sense of achievement. I've done that. One less thing I have to worry about. Let's go on about the date. If I don't do that, am I a bad person? No. It's just that for me to feel as often as I want to be in my, throughout my day, take 10 seconds to make your bed and go on.

And that's that integrity love we're talking about and it's whether it's going to the gym, if I miss that, whether it's having a cold shower, which were talking about earlier, you know, it's, you know, I don't want to almost looked down upon myself or punish myself because I missed out on that one minute in cold water that, that little, um, acute displeasure for so many benefits that it grew offer.

So, but on the other hand that comes with w we were talking on a bit of talking about this before was we're so quick to jump on when we do something wrong, but we're, so I'm reluctant to pat ourselves on the back when we do something good. Like, there's not that prays for ourselves. We go, ah, yeah, I, I didn't do this today. You know, I feel terrible about it, but hey, I did all these things and I feel great about it because I did those things that I wanted to do. And there's not much of that.

And that's where I say a lot of people go on into that negative cycle and then that kind of compounds. And then I think you definitely have to have a balance between those two because you can go negative, but then you can blindside yourself too much reinforcement. So that's, that's uh, it's a, it's definitely a difficult balance to hit. Um, but I think once you do find it in terms of, I think edge, it just comes down to

So you go like, oh, like I told you, like when I actually started really like with a fine tooth comb, looking through how much work I did on moments of meaning because I'd told me by maybe do 20 hours a week, um, they don't realize it was actually closer to 14 when I actually cut out all the bullshit, like making the coffee or you know, browsing through Instagram. We're not meant to be editing sort of thing.

But, um, I think that's, um, you know, that reality isn't fun to sort of come to terms with because again, it's sort of that little framework of safety and you know, I'm a good worker and I'm working hard at what I believe in sort of thing. That sort of deteriorates a little bit, but I think you need to do that because then you can go like, okay, well, you know, that's, I'm not aligning with my values I guess. So I need to do the things that I can to get me closer to that goal.

I think what you were saying about, you know, making your bed is actually really, really important. Um, I don't know if you know Jordan Peterson, he's my new favorite person in that moment because he says that's probably like his big thing is clean your room because I think he says, certainly people get caught up in how am I going to affect change in the world? How can I affect change it? And he says, don't worry about changing the world if you can't.

Like if you're not, if you're the one that needs changing, then don't worry about changing the world. Yeah. Do the actions that make you a better person and you'd be surprised at the ripple effect that you can inspire the people around you see a, so he says what you should do is like right now, because he said this on a podcast, pause this podcast, go and clean your room. It really goes like, how's that change in the morning is like, it's not about changing the world.

It's about making yourself a better person. What is the one thing that you can do right now that will change you? Like make your life just that 1% better? Yeah, like you said, three in 10 of the things that you might want to get done, that's 30% even if it's 1% you know? So assuming that you're getting through the days a hundred percent yep.

So you do 101% means you did one earlier, a hundred tasks that you wanted, but you do a compounding effect of how that goes in terms of 100% then you do that 1% yet I don't know where the 1% the next time I'm 1% the next day, all of a sudden you're sitting on like stupid amounts of efficiency and you look back at how much you've done. And this is what I tell people when they say, I want to start this project.

And I just say you give yourself half an hour a night whether you feel like it or not, and you sit down and you work and you just do it. And it's not like Gary Vaynerchuk Bullshit, unfortunately to say where it says just work for seven hours straight because that's not practical for most people. You know, that's fine if you don't want to have kids and you don't want to have a life and you know, all you want to do is build a business, but that's not most people.

Um, if you just, if you want to do something, you involve yourself in something, just try it and just give yourself half an hour to an hour a night. You know, if you're thinking, you know, manage 15 minutes and 15 minutes, but you genuinely work on it for 15 minutes, most of the time you get a fine. If you actually enjoy what you're doing, you're going to keep going. Yeah. Cause you're just going to get into that little flow. You'll make time in your routine. You'll, you'll find it.

You'll be resourceful. Yeah, exactly. Um, and I think that's something like with the cleaning your own thing, everyone gets so caught up in like, how am I going to affect the most change as soon as possible. But again, you can, you'd be incredibly surprised at what you can achieve just by, you know, or the people around you be incredibly surprised by how many people you can spire just by doing the right thing every day.

I think people having massive radar for integrity, um, and there, and I think that's where leaders come from. And again, that's another thing like people go, oh, you know, they're a leader, but they often think of like world leaders and all that sort of stuff. But you can be a leader in my most subtle of wise, and I'm a genuine believer in actions speak louder than words.

So you know, you can have the best spiel in the world, but unless your day to day actions are backing that up, then you know, you've, you've got no credibility in my eyes. And I know that sounds really judgy, but I hold myself to that standard and I honestly quite Oftenly don't make quite often don't make that. Yup. Um, but it is something I try and work on. But I think now more than ever that integrity and authenticity is needed in society.

Like the, the world needs leaders and genuine leaders, people that are doing it for fame or fortune or whatever it might be like. And I think that's a lot of the motivation for a lot of people in terms of, you know, being a figurehead for whatever sort of nature it is. But you should, you should be living by your own sort of campus and through that you vicariously inspire people to be a better version of themselves. Yeah. Having leaders that create letters as well. Exactly.

What's the best piece of advice you've been given in your life? Shit, I'm kind of actually remember any specific examples where I've just been given advice and I've actually taken on board. Like honestly, I'm just not good at learning. Like if someone just straight up gives me like a quote of like work hard and blah, blah, blah. But the best place I've heard recently is I think there's will Smith. Fail often, fail forward and fail well.

And it comes down to that learning from failure and I think maybe it was because we build these little like representations in our mind of who we are and what we do and that usually failure doesn't come into into play with that. No one, no, I'm planning to fail, he said. Exactly. But, um, I think that's, I don't know, especially recently I've just learnt the value of failure. Like it's, it's huge and I think we just saw all sort of, we don't want to fail because it doesn't feel good.

But like I said before, you can learn so much for it. So I would just say, you know, just fail, fail and learn and fail and be self aware. So what advice would you give you 16 year old self? Uh, push yourself a bit more. I was so in chelated until I started this. Um, and I still get nervous when I go into interviews and stuff like that. If someone were never met.

Um, but it's about, you know, it's okay to be nervous and this is something that I'd say to anybody who suffers from anxiety or you know, those sorts of things like that. That's okay, but sitting in your room and not going to things like going to events and parties and stuff like that and won't make it any better or make it worse. So just push yourself.

And I'm not saying like, you know, if you just started running, go write a or marathon, it's just, you know, if I could only run 200 meters of that being out of breath last week and we would try for 220 this week. Yeah. It's those incremental things and I think that's something we undervalue a lot is that how much those small little adjustments in your life can contribute to you just being a totally different person in one year and someone you can be proud of. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I agree as well.

What's, what's one thing that you think needs to be talked about more in society? Responsibility. You have responsibility for your actions. Um, I think we play the blame game a lot. I didn't succeed because of x, Y, zed. I didn't, you know, I wasn't afforded these opportunities. I wasn't there. So it wasn't that.

Um, I think once you start taking responsibility for your actions, it's socks in the short term because all that bull shit you been carrying around sorta starts actually catching up to cause you have to confront those little lies you've told yourself. But then there's, there's an intense freedom in what you're doing because like I said, with the integrity, once everything aligned in terms of your thoughts, your words and your actions, nobody can call you out. Yeah. What you see is what you get.

And I think that's a, um, that's a really powerful thing for you to be able to walk with your head held high and to be able to go, this is me and this is who I am and what you see is what you get. And I think that's why when we meet someone, why don't, you can tell right away when someone's authentic and they are like what you see is what you get are. I think those people just, they just glow. They just glow. I just stand out because

So, for instance, if I just couldn't be bothered doing this podcast because I'd had a really long way. Cocker Yard College, sorry mate, I've got a, I've got something else on and I got you know, dinner with the family sort of thing. Breakfast with the family for a birthday and then put us a snapchat up chat off of luck, you know, me lying in bed then like that's obviously going to hurt you more cause you will lie to their majors going like look hello mate. I've had a really long week.

It's been really rough for me. I'm just not up to talking. I just don't want to talk about anything sort of thing. Like I know for a fact with you, you go mate, you were a k like do you want to talk about this sort of thing or you know, we'd hash it out for a little bit and that will probably give me the energy to go forward. But I think a lot of people fall do option B where you sorta sorry, option lie, um, for the sake of not hurting someone.

But I think quite often we get caught out or if you don't, you live in this stress and you sort of contained in that little, at least momentarily until there's like the sort of danger period of the lies over. So that's how that other person reacts. So even when I've had people cancel plans, I've been on let's say a date and the person hasn't, the girl hasn't shown up and it's like, and I get a message maybe half an hour later, oh my God, I've slept in, I'm sorry. You're like, can we reschedule?

It's like, yeah, cool. It happens. Like, yeah, well I could get really angry and be like talking to this person again, like lost your chance, bad luck. Or I'll get really down on myself and go, Oh, I've wasted my, like, you know, an hour of my day getting ready for this. Or you can go, okay, I'll have a coffee by myself and I'll do something else. You're going to be doing something anyway. Why?

You know, what if it was you in that situation and you had slept through something, your alarm and how would you react to that happening? So I think a lot of people can need to need to know how to control their reactions or even that's true. But I'd also argue that that whoever that person was, whoever that is that makes that fault, they lack integrity because that comes down to saying, you know, doing what you say, waking up to be there on time.

Yeah. Yeah. Cause I don't know, I just don't know. Even if it's just like, Oh God, I always sleep in. If there's an appointment that early you just ask to have it later. Yup. Sort of thing. So you know, two sides to every story.

There are becoming more and more important to me as I get older. Um, and I think I just, I don't know, I just connect with people and not, I'd probably drop moments and meetings as much as I love it. Just like I connect with the people that I have value to me in my personal life. So I think that will be the biggest thing. There's no grand like, oh you get in a van and drive away sort of thing. Like I've got everything I need in my life already.

So I just, you know, concentrate on the bits that are really loved. Just, yeah. And what if you had unlimited resources would have been the same? Yeah. It wouldn't make a difference. I don't care if he gave me $1 billion. We just, I don't think there's anything you can get at our life that comes from money that is worth more than the, these sorts of experiences, these conversations.

I just, I just don't, I don't know from my experience, no amount of money he's ever made me change or as accelerants as I get a better new camera or a new piece of equipment or you know, moving house or whatever it might be. It's, that's such, that's short live, that thing that gives you like a long lasting happiness and meaning, uh, the people in your life. Yeah. And those sorts of experiences that you have with them, so no money wouldn't make a difference. Yeah. Very well said.

I like that a lot. How do you think raising consciousness and awareness amongst self and people in the society, how do you think that would benefit the community? I think it will break down a lot of barriers we have, and this is what we were talking about before in terms of the communication.

Like you, when you're not conscious of what you're saying and what you're doing, like you just sort of on autopilot and you're just letting your letting things ha like impact upon you rather than affecting the environment around you.

So when you're not like, when you don't have that self awareness and consciousness, um, it just doesn't, I just think it leads to a life where you just reacting all the time because things happen to you because you're not conscious of the thing that you might've said two days ago I did two days ago, which is why the reason why fucking Janell and the offers that pissed off sort of thing. And then you like, and you're just like, you constantly on the back foot.

But you know, when you're, when you're doing things consciously doing things consciously and you're acting with intention and purpose, then you find that you know, you're accountable for your actions in a good way, not in a like, you know, that's obviously it has said that has caught a negative connotation to it quite often. But like accountability can be a good thing.

So I think if everybody sort of raise a consciousness in that sort of way, I think they'd be a lot of very aware of why things sort of play out in their mind. Did it again, it comes to relating to people.

If you were conscious of the people around you all the time, you'd realize that Carlo hasn't had had a good week, so I'm not going to ask him to do this project for me or I know, you know what's his face is super busy right now, so I'm not going to press him to do this, so get this in on time sort of thing. So it's um, yeah, I think that would just really help with communication. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Um, what about what

Yeah. So never, never sort of underestimate how much these small acts and small conversations, um, can help someone. Yeah.

We'll definitely do it again soon, so have a great one, man. Take care. Bruce,